Gay Marriage.

[The Batman]

Do you support gay marriage? This doesn't mean that you wouldn't let them get married I'm just asking how you feel about it.

Personally I'm not a fan, to me a marriage is between a man and a woman and that's the way I've always seen it. I have a cousin who has married his boyfriend and you know it makes me feel kinda uncomfortable, but I wouldn't say anything against it. Another thing is that it doesn't really bother me to see two gay people walking down the street holding hands and kissing and what not it's just the marriage part that gets me.

So what about you guys how do you feel about gay marriage?

[nachtspiegel]

I found the following on Yahoo! Answers. It really took me in, but at the same time, I'm not sure what I think about it. I figured that it would add to the debate to put it here and leave it to be debated. It's about California's Proposition 8, but the idea is the same.

I think Proposition 8 ("Only marriage between a man and a woman is valid or recognized in California") is badly written, ambiguous, divisive, and on the wrong side of history.

WHAT MAKES A MAN?
It's nearly impossible to legally define "man" and "woman". It can't be done by mere appearance; there are many masculine-appearing women and feminine-appearing men. It can't be defined by which sex one self-identifies with; what's to stop someone from saying they feel like a man just to get married to her lesbian partner? It can't be done by inspecting genitalia; there are many pre-operative transsexuals and there are many female impersonators who have implants to heighten the illusion as well as other concerns. It can't be defined by who can and can't bear children or who does or does not produce sperm; does a woman who's had a hysterectomy suddenly become male or does a man who's been castrated suddenly become female? And, finally, it can't be decided by looking at chromosomes; women born with Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome have XY chromosomes but in all other respects are female.

As a result, the proposed "amendment" is ambiguous in to whom it applies.

SEPARATE BUT EQUAL
I can't think of *ANY* previous constitutional amendments that are specifically designed to *ELIMINATE* rights of a certain group.

Supporters of Prop 8 say that gay couples can have "domestic partnerships"; that's the same "separate but equal" argument used in segregation. There are many automatic rights and benefits granted by the government in a marriage but require a skilled lawyer for a domestic partnership--if they're even *available* to that domestic partnership.

Take, for example, the requirement that a domestic partnership REQUIRES the two people to live together. There is no such requirement for a marriage. Separate is hardly *EVER* equal (And unconstitutional, to boot) and it isn't in this case either.

TRADITION
Finally, Proposition 8 is on the "wrong side of history." Supporters claim that Proposition 8 only maintains "traditional" marriage. It was 'traditional' to deny women the right to vote. It was 'traditional' to have slaves. It was 'traditional' to deny inter-racial marriage. Those traditions were wrong--they still are--and so is this 'tradition' of governments only offering certain benefits to heterosexual couples.

Prop 8 should be defeated. If they want to "protect marriage" they should outlaw divorce. Found this here (http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081023210132AAoyQMJ).

As far as my opinion on gay marriage is concerned, I am strictly neutral. Although it might not seem to be the norm in society, there is nothing that is truly harming anyone by two gays joining in holy matrimony, and as society has changed before, I believe that eventually, gay marriage will be the societal norm.

[Curthose93]

I'm not some big law guru, but I'm pretty sure that the American Constitution doesn't say anything about marriage being only between a man and a woman. As such, gay people have every right to get married here.

Shiver: "Personally I'm not a fan, to me a marriage is between a man and a woman and that's the way I've always seen it." That's the way you've always seen it... so?

Lithium: "It's nearly impossible to legally define "man" and "woman". "" Fortunately, gender is a biological issue. A man can't go the local courthouse, file some papers, and suddenly be able to conceive children with another man.

Lithium: "It can't be done by mere appearance." That's what record-keeping is for. Birth certificates and all that.

As for me, I'm perfectly fine with gay people getting married. Actually, I'm better than fine; I don't really care what other people do! Turn me gay and find me true love-- then I'll care about the issue.

[Atonement]

Right, my view is that there is no legal marriage. It is a civil union in which people combine their finances and lives. Marriage is a romantic ceremony protesting two peoples love for eachother and commitment. I believe in civil union but not gay marriage. Marriage is simply not the right word. And furthermore, its a religious service and by religion, yes, marriage is a man and woman.

[The Resurrected One]

Without thinking I'd just say "GAY MARRIAGE FTW!". But as I put thought into it, I really don't know what to say.

[DarkWingedAngel]

i say people should not put there noses into other peoples lifes
if someone is gay let them
if someone is in a gay marriage let them
no one should care

[nachtspiegel]

Lithium: "It's nearly impossible to legally define "man" and "woman". "" Fortunately, gender is a biological issue. A man can't go the local courthouse, file some papers, and suddenly be able to conceive children with another man.

Lithium: "It can't be done by mere appearance." That's what record-keeping is for. Birth certificates and all that.


Take into mind that I didn't write that - look at the source that I quoted. I found that elsewhere.

[CaptainObvious]

Do you support gay marriage? This doesn't mean that you wouldn't let them get married I'm just asking how you feel about it.

Personally I'm not a fan, to me a marriage is between a man and a woman and that's the way I've always seen it. I have a cousin who has married his boyfriend and you know it makes me feel kinda uncomfortable, but I wouldn't say anything against it. Another thing is that it doesn't really bother me to see two gay people walking down the street holding hands and kissing and what not it's just the marriage part that gets me.

So what about you guys how do you feel about gay marriage?

I'm fine with a person not liking the idea of gay marriage. And if you are that way but are in favor of allowing it, we have no beef. My question is this: why should anyone's opinion have any beaing whatsoever on what two loving, consenting adults are allowed to do with regard to marriage?

I'm fully in favor of gay marriage. People bring up the religious traditional objection, and I agree. Marriage is indeed religious. Which is why I think that the government should immediately change the word "marriage" to "civil union" in every document and legislation, make civil unions open to homosexuals, and then allow religious organizations to do what they will with marriage. Which is, after all, a religious thing with which government should have nothing to do.

Your thoughts?

[Antares]

Yes.
Why should I not. Maybe religiously I can see how it can't be but legally I do NOT see why it can't happen. People need the pull the big long penis-like sticks out of their asses and realize that gay marriage is something that is going to happen and that needs to happen because gay people are coming out and are finding partners. So what now?!

[JoshDude]

Gay marriage is fine.

[Θάνατος]

I think gay marriage or union is fine. It is up to the individuals who love each other not the state or any religion to decide.

[Whisper]

I honestly don't care
Who a stranger decides to marry has no effect on me what-so-ever
therefore its none of my business
period

[Kiros]

Sure, why not? A lot of people think that gay marriage isn't right simply "because it's not right," and I have to think that the reason they think it's not right is because that's the way it's been for soooo long (one man, one woman). What about slavery? That existed in the states back in the day, and many people thought it was supposed to be like that, because it was right and having free African Americans was was wrong.

So, yeah, gay marriage should be acceptable.

[Donkey]

I am 100% against homophobes, gay rights.

[Requin]

I see no problem with gay marriages. It's legal in England now I think so...good on them.

I don't see why people have a problem with it really, I mean what is marriage? It proves that two people love each other and are prepared to (try at least) spend the rest of their lives together. Why does it matter whether it's a man+man or man+women?
Or even women+women??? When will that happen?
Who knows,but i don't have a problem with it at all.

[theOperaGhost]

I honestly don't care
Who a stranger decides to marry has no effect on me what-so-ever
therefore its none of my business
period

I agree with that...I really don't care.

[ShatteredWings]

I'm not some big law guru, but I'm pretty sure that the American Constitution doesn't say anything about marriage being only between a man and a woman. As such, gay people have every right to get married here.
True, but a few states have made laws SPEFICALLY against gay marraige. Stupid no?


I don't buy into the "marriage should be between a man and a woman" bit. Sure, in a RELIGIOUS CERMONIE... but marriage is LEGAL, not religous. I cna't speak for other countries, but the US is technally secular [meaning has not religous affilation, and cannot force it on anybody].

It shouldn't even be an issue, but apparently it is because of a few vocal people who hate the consept.

It's nobody's business who you love. Really.

I'd bet that in about 20-30 years, this won't be an issue anymore, like how interracial marriage isn't. Yeah people will still hate it, but it won't be "illegal", or so taboo; more accepted.

[BlackenedSilver]

As has been said..

Its to do with love and nothing else. If the people getting married are in love it shouldnt matter what sex they are.

[Nihilus]

I don't think its wrong because they are people like us. I am only disturbed if I see them them doing bad stuff in public but otherwise im cool about gay marriage.

[The Batman]

I'm not asking from a political view I'm just asking from a personal view because really you can go ahead and marry another guy or girl or whatever even though I hate it, it's not up to me to curve the world around what I would like it to be.

[jrob11]

Personally I think gay marriage is fine. Nobody has the right to tell ANYBODY who they can or can not marry. As for you Constitution junkies out there, since gay marriage isn't noted anywhere in the Constitution, it falls under the 9th Amendment (aka rights reserved to the people).

[The Batman]

Damn Ellen DeGenerous I'm actually sad about gay marriages being illegal in California because of her lol.


I might not like it but people have a right to love whoever they want and marry whoever they want and for people to take this away because of what they believe in it's bullshit. I wish there was something I could do to help out.

[ThatCanadianGuy]

The worst thing I hear about the anti-gay marriage people is their argument that gay marriage "destroys marriages and other peoples lives". Are you KIDDING ME?!?!?!

How does two loving people getting married (regardless of their gender) affect YOUR MARRIAGE in ANY WAY. Again I'm sorry to be religion-bashing but the ONLY opposition I see to this is coming from the southern fundies in the states. Up here in Canada same-sex marriage is already legal since we haven't had so many negative reactions from the religious "right".

[Zephyr]

And I say this for the umpteenth time for this arguement...

Everybody deserves to love and be loved.
If it happens to be a person of the same gender,
Then so be it.

Who are we to deny somebody love?

[Mannequin]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081105/ap_on_el_ge/gay_marriage

omg, that just pisses me off. We only want equal rights, not special rights--equal rights! does anyone not realize how fucking inhumane this is? no one is asking what YOU think about it. it should even be debated! i think fat people shouldnt be able to get married. they are ugly and reproduce fat, ugly children! but does anyone care, no?! gay people only want the same rights as straight people--no one is trying to make straight marriage illegal! No one! No one is asking for a "i suck cock" tax break! what is people's problems. christians, yes i say christians, without any hesitation are absolute hypocritical idiots. you people are the absolutely the most ignorant, non accepting people of all. fuck you. i sure hope you find peace in hurting innocent people with feelings they cannot help--god's people.

[theOperaGhost]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081105/ap_on_el_ge/gay_marriage

omg, that just pisses me off. We only want equal rights, not special rights--equal rights! does anyone not realize how fucking inhumane this is? no one is asking what YOU think about it. it should even be debated! i think fat people shouldnt be able to get married. they are ugly and reproduce fat, ugly children! but does anyone care, no?! gay people only want the same rights as straight people--no one is trying to make straight marriage illegal! No one! No one is asking for a "i suck cock" tax break! what is people's problems. christians, yes i say christians, without any hesitation are absolute hypocritical idiots. you people are the absolutely the most ignorant, non accepting people of all. fuck you. i sure hope you find peace in hurting innocent people with feelings they cannot help--god's people.

Thanks? I'm Christian and I'm not against gay marriage...if you love someone...do what ever you want.

[Mannequin]

Thanks? I'm Christian and I'm not against gay marriage...if you love someone...do what ever you want.

congrats, you're in a severe minority. you're counterparts are ignorant hicks.

[Ryandel]

Personally, I support it. Especially since I'm straight-curious. But overall, I've seen enough people forcing themselves into a wedding with a wife or husband they don't like just because they can't marry the same sex. It's quite addening really.

[The Batman]

I'm christian and I might not like gay marriage but I support it. I believe that whatever you do your private life is up to you not the government.

[rainebg]

I honestly don't see the big deal! Who cares if two gays get married it does not affect your life therefore i see absolutely no problem with it. Plus i don't understand what it is about people who are for civil unions but not the term "marriage" who cares its a name! why should we discriminate people by not letting them get married?

[rainebg]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081105/ap_on_el_ge/gay_marriage

omg, that just pisses me off. We only want equal rights, not special rights--equal rights! does anyone not realize how fucking inhumane this is? no one is asking what YOU think about it. it should even be debated! i think fat people shouldnt be able to get married. they are ugly and reproduce fat, ugly children! but does anyone care, no?! gay people only want the same rights as straight people--no one is trying to make straight marriage illegal! No one! No one is asking for a "i suck cock" tax break! what is people's problems. christians, yes i say christians, without any hesitation are absolute hypocritical idiots. you people are the absolutely the most ignorant, non accepting people of all. fuck you. i sure hope you find peace in hurting innocent people with feelings they cannot help--god's people.

I agreed with you up until you said that stuff about Christians because you yourself just responded to hate and stereotypes with hate and stereotypes. not all Christians are like that the thing is the only ones you see are the one on TV who are like that. Also i am not a Christian but my grandmother is and she is the most kind loving gentile people i know. She was for gay rights was not a racist and was an all around kind person. She did not force her views on people either. She was also a very devout roman catholic extremely devout so dont generalize like that because that make you as bad as them.

[japanman]

Lol i think its just marriage, it doesn't really matter if its a boy or girl, if two people love each other enough to get married then they should be able to regardless of orientation.

[Mannequin]

I'm christian and I might not like gay marriage but I support it. I believe that whatever you do your private life is up to you not the government.

slavery is advocated in the bible. is that something you like?
women who have sex before marriage are cast out of a normal, functioning society..yet now that's "ok" and fine?
The bible says gays should be killed, is that ok?

Please, form your own opinions. No one intelligent takes religious excuses seriously.

[The Batman]

My beliefs have nothing to do with my religion. I might be a christian but I'm not The Pope. I'm just not use seeing two homosexuals married and it's kinda like i don't like it to much but I can change in fact I have. 4 or 5 years ago I would have said that all gay people might as well be atheist since their going to hell anyway. I don't believe any of that anymore especially because of my confusing sexuality.

[theOperaGhost]

slavery is advocated in the bible. is that something you like?
women who have sex before marriage are cast out of a normal, functioning society..yet now that's "ok" and fine?
The bible says gays should be killed, is that ok?

Please, form your own opinions. No one intelligent takes religious excuses seriously.


Where the hell in the Bible does it say gays should be killed? I'd like to see the verse.

To be honest, none of the religious people I know are homophobes. It doesn't mean they are for homosexuality.

The whole religious view on homosexuality is this (not my view). Basically, homosexuality is a product of the devil, the same with drugs, alcohol, sexual immorality, and other things considered sinful. My basic understanding is that homosexuals can be "saved" just like drug addicts and alcoholics and sex addicts can. EVERYONE can be saved if they accept Christ. Being saved is opening up to Christ and letting His spirit pour into you. If you do this, the devil will be forced out of you because Christ is stronger than the devil.

Now some people may ask, why doesn't Christ protect you from the devil in the first place, if He is so strong? The devil is also very strong and deceitful. Christ can conquer the devil, but you have to accept Christ first. You also have to keep your faith alive. You can accept Christ, but if you lose your faith, the devil can overcome.

I feel this is the basic view on homosexuality from the point of view of religious people. I don't completely share this view, even though I am religious. One thing that I feel, however, which may or may not be related, is that homosexuality isn't a choice. I feel you are born the way you are.

Now, you may or may not agree with me, but if you don't, I honestly don't give a shit. This is my opinion and nothing anyone says is going to change that.

[The Resurrected One]

Where the hell in the Bible does it say gays should be killed? I'd like to see the verse.



I don't know, but I found this:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_bibh3.htm

May just be false information, though.

[Θάνατος]

I agree with Jared here.

Most churches may speak out against the act of homosexuality but they don't go around gay bashing.

Besides what is marriage but a union of two people. I think it is a sad thing that two people have been together for years and then one of them dies and then the survivor loses everything because the law doesn't not recognize the relationship.

I support gay marriage or gay union the right of these people need to be up held. What is it going to hurt to recognize the union of two people who love each other.
People's wishes should be protected by a law and not be affected because of one's sexually or gender preference.

Look at the bottom of the page on Johnny's link and this is what it says.

"Over the last few centuries, most Christians and Jews have rejected Leviticus 20:13. They no longer call on the death penalty for homosexuals. Only Christian Reconstructionists and a few Christian hate groups wish to revert to mass executions of gays and lesbians today."

[theOperaGhost]

Ok, Johnny, you did prove me wrong.

However, I come back with a defense.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Lev%2026:40-45;%20Deut%2028:64;%2029:28;%201%20Kin%208:47&version=49

Leviticus 26:40-45
40 'If they confess their iniquity and the iniquity of their forefathers, in their unfaithfulness which they committed against Me, and also in their acting with hostility against Me--
41 I also was acting with hostility against them, to bring them into the land of their enemies--or if their uncircumcised heart becomes humbled so that they then make amends for their iniquity,
42 then I will remember My covenant with Jacob, and I will remember also My covenant with Isaac, and My covenant with Abraham as well, and I will remember the land.
43 For the land will be abandoned by them, and will make up for its sabbaths while it is made desolate without them They, meanwhile, will be making amends for their iniquity, because they rejected My ordinances and their soul abhorred My statutes.
44 Yet in spite of this, when they are in the land of their enemies, I will not reject them, nor will I so abhor them as to destroy them, breaking My covenant with them; for I am the LORD their God.
45 But I will remember for them the covenant with their ancestors, whom I brought out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the nations, that I might be their God. I am the LORD.'"

Jeremiah 33:25-26
25"Thus says the LORD, 'If My covenant for day and night stand not, and the fixed patterns of heaven and earth I have not established,
26 then I would reject the descendants of Jacob and David My servant, not taking from his descendants rulers over the descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob But I will restore their fortunes and will have mercy on them.'"

Deuteronomy 4:31
31"For the LORD your God is a compassionate God; He will not fail you nor destroy you nor forget the covenant with your fathers which He swore to them.



These are a few things that stood out to me, which basically say "God is holy and expects his people to be holy. God accepts sacrifice and forgives people who sin." If anyone actually checks out that link, check out the cross references too.

[ThatCanadianGuy]

Where the hell in the Bible does it say gays should be killed? I'd like to see the verse.

To be honest, none of the religious people I know are homophobes. It doesn't mean they are for homosexuality.

The whole religious view on homosexuality is this (not my view). Basically, homosexuality is a product of the devil, the same with drugs, alcohol, sexual immorality, and other things considered sinful. My basic understanding is that homosexuals can be "saved" just like drug addicts and alcoholics and sex addicts can. EVERYONE can be saved if they accept Christ. Being saved is opening up to Christ and letting His spirit pour into you. If you do this, the devil will be forced out of you because Christ is stronger than the devil.

Now some people may ask, why doesn't Christ protect you from the devil in the first place, if He is so strong? The devil is also very strong and deceitful. Christ can conquer the devil, but you have to accept Christ first. You also have to keep your faith alive. You can accept Christ, but if you lose your faith, the devil can overcome.

I feel this is the basic view on homosexuality from the point of view of religious people. I don't completely share this view, even though I am religious. One thing that I feel, however, which may or may not be related, is that homosexuality isn't a choice. I feel you are born the way you are.

Now, you may or may not agree with me, but if you don't, I honestly don't give a shit. This is my opinion and nothing anyone says is going to change that.

Contrary to your first statement; MOST if not all religious people I know are if not homophobes then fervently against gays and say they are "sinful and wrong". Plus (well its already been answered) there ARE passages in the Bible condoning the killing of homosexuals (as have already been provided). In any case the Bible has a LOT of laws that most rational people today would think are EVIL.

Anyways, I'm glad the view you explained of the religious standpoint on gays is not your own. Blaming the devil is a total cop out. Instead of actually DEALING with the problems of society like drugs etc (I wouldn't call gays a "problem in society" EVER) they just say "oh well the devil is evil and he is causing all these bad things and there is nothing we can do about it". That is STUPID. No progress is made towards ending those problems with beliefs like that.

We see other animals with homosexual behaviour; it is not confined to humans. If its something normal to observe in certain animals other than humans then I don't see how they can call it a "choice". Sure it may be a choice for a very small minority but as far as things like genetics are concerned you ARE born with a tendency to be either straight or gay. And there is NOTHING you can do to "fix" that, since there isn't anything that NEEDS to be fixed. Gays are fine just the way they are, I see no difference in them from any other person.

[theOperaGhost]

James, we agree on something! Awesome...lol.

Yeah, I really feel that the religious view on homosexuality is not right and I disagree with it. I do disagree with that most religious people are homophobes, however. Although this may be because I don't know that many super religious people. I know both extremes though. The biggest homophobe I know is also either the biggest or second biggest atheist I know (I haven't yet decided who is more atheist yet, you or my friend). The most religious person I know is also a homophobe. So it's not only religious people who can be homophobic.

Oh, and what we agree on. Homosexuality is not a choice. I feel people are born the way they are. Some things are learned, but I feel people do not choose to be homosexual.

BTW...complete side note, but I don't know if it is my computer or not, but your signature takes a really long time to load. Could you possibly re-size it first, then put it in your sig?

[Antares]

OOH! Im glad this was brought back:

SOMEONE PLEASE HELP ME UNDERSTAND!

What are the reasons people don't want gays to get married?
Especially taking into account that it doesn't matter to them.


With a clear and definate answer so I can understand if possible.
I feel that this is a violation of natural rights.
If Mexicans can jump over the border and assimilate into American society without a lick of English then why can't a man get married to a man in a purely legal sense?

[mr.sexy_bomb]

i think gay marriage is fine and i am bi but i cant see myself marry to a girl i mean sure i date them n like them but thats it, i know i will marry a guy and i wouldnt really care what people think or do, if i am happy then why should it matter what others think

[Jean Poutine]

gay people can do whatever they want as far as I'm concerned, as long as it's in their bedroom. same for heterosexuals.

I have no place in your bedroom, but do you have one in public?

[RsHsChK2012]

.....

[The Batman]

What's so wrong with gay marriage? What are we gonna do lower the divorce rate?
I wouldnt get married to another guy even though I'm gay but still others have the right to do it.

[CaptainObvious]

well im southern, and im a christian so i believe bein gay in the first place is wrong. so i deffinetly dont believe that gays should be able to get married.

Do you have a basis for those beliefs? Can you tell me why I, as a gay person, am in any way infringing upon your rights by loving who I do and/or marrying them?

While you're at it, could you tell me how gay people getting married is any worse than 24-hour celebrity weddings? Than America's 50% divorce rate?

My friend, there are many righteous targets that you as a Christian should be decrying. Gay marriage, really, is the absolute least of them. Any cursory study of what Jesus preaches would reveal that. If Jesus were alive today, based on his own words he would almost certainly spend his entire life helping alleviate the enormous amount of actual suffering in the world, while all you self-righteous Christians blather on about the "abomination" of gays and gay marriage.

[Perseus]

well im southern, and im a christian so i believe bein gay in the first place is wrong. so i deffinetly dont believe that gays should be able to get married.

Why do you think that? Im Southern(really southern at that) and a Christian, and I believe that gay people should have every single right a straight person. They were born that way, they cannot help it.

[Camazotz]

I support gay marriage. Why shouldn't gays be allowed to marry, while straight people can? We should all have the same rights, regardless of sexual orientation, race, religion, or gender. Gay marriage isn't hurting anybody. If it makes them happy, I'm happy. Marriage is not a sacred ritual between a man and a woman if 50% of marriages end in divorce.

[Stevo 69]

I support, if two people who are the same sex want to get married it's great, there's no need to discriminate people who are gay.

[phish]

I support it 100%. Gays NEED to have every right as straight people! To the gov marriage should be one thing a binding contract between 2 people no madder who,when,why,ect.

[Church]

Gays should have just the same rights as anyone, its really sad we call our selves the home of the free etc. here in America yet we deny certain people rights? Kinda hypocritical

[Sugaree]

Gay marriage is fine with me. A few months ago when Proposition 8 was passed in California, I was very upset. It really shows how people say there is a high level of tolerance in this country when there isn't. If you're a homophobe then you have some real problems. Being afraid of gay people? Are you out of your mind?

Now, even though I'm Catholic, people still think that I believe that gay marriage is an abomination of God and of the sacred bonds of marriage between a man and a woman. I don't think it's an abomination. No one can tell you who to love or how to love them. A man can love a man, a woman can love another woman, and a man can love a woman. It's something that happens all the time.

Many people in this country are gay. So what? If they aren't bothering you, then why bother them about it? Don't keep picking at the scab, because it's going to bleed and it will hurt. I believe that gays and lesbians should have the right to marry, because they love each other. If God made us in His own image, then wouldn't he have INTENDED for some people to be gay?

I think that the member of the Church, including the clerical members, need to really get into the times. You can't change a person's sexuality with power of God. It's human nature and nothing can change it.

[Oblivion]

I have never understood why people who oppose it think it's any of their business.

[Halibut]

i think that your sexuality isnt a choice nor is it wrong to be attracted to the other sex. if you were to stay straight to make others happy or because it was wrong. then you yourself are the one wrong as your not being honest with yourself or others and your not living your real self . i think its tottally fine! and should be thought of as a natural thing!

[Sage]

I can't seem to come up with any non-religious reasons against same sex marriage. It's all just theological bigotry.

[theOperaGhost]

I can't seem to come up with any non-religious reasons against same sex marriage. It's all just theological bigotry.


I can't come up with a non-religious reason against same sex marriage, however I find a physiological reason against same sex intercourse. This doesn't mean I'm against it though. If you look at the reason for sex, it is to reproduce, which is impossible in same sex intercourse. Since today's society sees sex as merely pleasure and showing your love, then same sex intercourse is perfectly fine.

Not trying to offend anyone here. I don't see reproduction as a religious thing, and since the purpose of sex is to reproduce, it would make sense what I'm saying would be the biological reason same sex intercourse doesn't really work out.

When looking at this, you really have to define sex before it can be answered.

Gay marriage is fine, however I still feel gay couples shouldn't be able to adopt kids.

OMG, I just completely rambled...it's way to late to be thinking...

[Prince_of_Peace]

If gay people would like to be accepted as "COUPLE" and show that as a legitimate union between two people in every aspect of life, that is fine with me.

My dear friends...MARRIAGE is defined as a union between a man and a woman for the purpose of PROCREATION. There is NO gay marriage because their love will not PROCREATE. I have nothing against gay people. As a matter of fact I love all the gay people. I think what gay people are great.

However, a union between two gay people is legitimate...but can not be called MARRIAGE.

[Skuzzy]

There is nothing wrong with gay couples. Just most people have been turned against it by there church or some other source. Along with that there is a growing number of homophobics who won't rest until they ruin the lives of someone else who made there lifestyle choice.

[Prince_of_Peace]

I love gay people and I have nothing agaist them. They have lives to live and to enjoy. They can have civil unions if they want. However, marriage is defined as a union between man and woman for the purspose of procreation. With this, a marriage can be annulled in the Catholic Church because they did not produce an offspring or a child.

[Skuzzy]

The defenition of marriage should be changed to the union betweens 2 partners. Christians know god created everone equal, should have exclude gays?

[Prince_of_Peace]

Unless gay people can produce babies, I dont see why not.

[Skuzzy]

So pretty much it's get married have a baby or else you'll go to hell?

[Prince_of_Peace]

Who said about gay people going to hell? There are more straight people maybe.

[Antares]

Well considering only 10 percent of the population is gay, yes, more straight are going to hell.

Plus, I personally think gay people have better souls/hearts than straight.

I really still don't understand why people are still scared.
The world won't end.
They arent trying to spead it to you.
What the hell. Let people that love eachother marry and ocne their married have legal documentation. its sooo simple

[Sage]

If gay people would like to be accepted as "COUPLE" and show that as a legitimate union between two people in every aspect of life, that is fine with me.

My dear friends...MARRIAGE is defined as a union between a man and a woman for the purpose of PROCREATION. There is NO gay marriage because their love will not PROCREATE. I have nothing against gay people. As a matter of fact I love all the gay people. I think what gay people are great.

However, a union between two gay people is legitimate...but can not be called MARRIAGE.

By this logic, people who are sterile shouldn't be allowed to get married either. ._.

[Camazotz]

By this logic, people who are sterile shouldn't be allowed to get married either. ._.

Agreed. According to your (Prince of Peace) theory, men or women who cannot physically have a child should not get married.

[phish]

^^yeah^^

[Bobby]

^^yeah^^

Please don't post unless you're contributing to the debate.

[ShatteredWings]

Gay marriage is fine, however I still feel gay couples shouldn't be able to adopt kids.

Why?
marriage is defined as a union between man and woman for the purspose of procreation. With this, a marriage can be annulled in the Catholic Church because they did not produce an offspring or a child.
1. So anyone who can't have/doesn't want children shouldn't be allowed to be with someone?
2. Catholicism isn't the only religion

[lamboman43]

By this logic, people who are sterile shouldn't be allowed to get married either. ._.

Or people who just don't want kids and just want to be HAPPY and spend the rest of their life with someone they LOVE. That isn't right. They should be able to get MARRIED even if they don't want kids.

And people with STD's that cant have kids because they use protection. Should we ruin their life even more by not letting them get MARRIED.

Heck even couples who use condoms just for safety, should they not be allowed to get married. I thinks it's better to be safe than sorry. We shouldn't get punished for doing something good.

And I also wonder why gay people shouldn't be able to adopt. What if they want to spend their life with their dream lover, but also want a kid? If the kid doesn't go around his/her school saying their parents are gay, no one will know.

[INFERNO]

Unless gay people can produce babies, I dont see why not.

So if 2 lesbians were to get married, 1 or both of them could go to a sperm donor bank then it's all good to get married?

Seems rather, well odd that just something that simple gets around the issue of gays going to the firey hell.

[Clawhammer]

Marrige by definition is the union between a man and a woman. Let the gays come up with their own ritual. I'm against it.

[Sage]

Marrige by definition is the union between a man and a woman. Let the gays come up with their own ritual. I'm against it.

You speak as though that definition is universal, which it is not.

[Perseus]

Marrige by definition is the union between a man and a woman. Let the gays come up with their own ritual. I'm against it.

Marriage can mean 1 guy and 3 women, marriage emans differents things accross the world, like Deschain said.
Marraige is the union between 2 people in the U.S., who love each other, why cant two people take joy in that joy?

[lamboman43]

Spoken like a true American. High five:yeah:

[foof1]

I'm straight but I am totally for gay marriage. If that's what they want to do that's what they want to do. Plus it's good for the planet because more gay couples means less babies.

[Triceratops]

I see no wrong in gay marriages. I see wrong in homophobia.
Love and commitment to one another shouldn't be based on gender.

A lot of my family are Christians and they've only attempted to brainwash me with "Homosexuality is bad! Being gay is animalistic." I personally think that's a disgusting thing to say. I believe in God but there are some things I do actually disagree with in the bible if I'm being honest, such as homosexuality.

So therefore, I support gay marriages.

[theOperaGhost]

I see no wrong in gay marriages. I see wrong in homophobia.
Love and commitment to one another shouldn't be based on gender.

A lot of my family are Christians and they've only attempted to brainwash me with "Homosexuality is bad! Being gay is animalistic." I personally think that's a disgusting thing to say. I believe in God but there are some things I do actually disagree with in the bible if I'm being honest, such as homosexuality.

So therefore, I support gay marriages.


Haha...when they say "being gay is animalistic" make sure to tell them that we ARE animals. :P

[The Resurrected One]

Some religious beliefs are just ridiculous and most of it is a big pile of steaming crap.

I wonder if Prop 8 would have still passed if not as many people there were religious.

[theOperaGhost]

Some religious beliefs are just ridiculous and most of it is a big pile of steaming crap.

I wonder if Prop 8 would have still passed if not as many people there were religious.

Not all homophobes are religious and not all religious people are homophobes. That's stereotyping just as bad as saying every black person is a criminal and every Mexican is a border jumping.

[The Resurrected One]

Most of what I know are.

[Mzor203]

Now, I must say that a decent-sized part of the Christian population up here are like, extremist Christians. Extreme enough that they pretty much won't associate with non-Christians. But, I actually have yet to encounter a homophobe up here. So don't be so quick to judge. You own bad experiences probably have caused you to not associate with Christians as much, thus you aren't in the best position to judge. You're just blowing things out of proportion.

Take this site for example. There are a few people against gays, but there are a large number of Christians who support gays and gay marriage.

Look at the bigger picture before you judge off of a few experiences.

[theOperaGhost]

Most of what I know are.

The only homophobes I actually know are atheists. Very few of the christians I know are homophobes, although a few may be against gay marriage. Being a traditionalist doesn't make you a homophobe in my opinion.

Now, I must say that a decent-sized part of the Christian population up here are like, extremist Christians. Extreme enough that they pretty much won't associate with non-Christians. But, I actually have yet to encounter a homophobe up here. So don't be so quick to judge. You own bad experiences probably have caused you to not associate with Christians as much, thus you aren't in the best position to judge. You're just blowing things out of proportion.

Take this site for example. There are a few people against gays, but there are a large number of Christians who support gays and gay marriage.

Look at the bigger picture before you judge off of a few experiences.


Exactly.. ^^^

[Atonement]

I personally, would not get married if I was in a committed homosexual relationship. I simply don't believe in it.

That being said, I have no place to tell other people than they can't get married if they want. I wouldn't install my beliefs in legislation, ever.

In light of the "religious people are homophobe" crap, its ridiculous to assume. there are people that yes, are homophobes that are religious. But some people are literally homophobic. Difference between not believing in what gay people practice, and people not liking gays.

Religious people often disagree with the actions and practice of homosexuality, never the people. Religious (at least Christians) do not hate.

Secular people that dislike homosexuals literally HATE the people. They not only don't agree with what they do, they hate everything about them. So, know what the word homophobic means.

[The Resurrected One]

What about those groups and people who preach about how homosexuals will be "damned and burn in Hell for all of eternity"?

Probably all the anti-gay protests are from religious people trying to "warn us", no?

[Bobby]

It's no different from the groups of gays who hate straight people.

[theOperaGhost]

What about those groups and people who preach about how homosexuals will be "damned and burn in Hell for all of eternity"?

Probably all the anti-gay protests are from religious people trying to "warn us", no?

That isn't hating gay people. They think that is what will happen when they die, but I'm sure they think the same about atheists and anyone who sins without repenting.

You label everyone who has ANYTHING against homosexuality as a homophobe. Just because it against something they believe doesn't make them a homophobe. I personally can't say that I'm all in support of gay marriage, but it's their lives so why would I give a fuck. Does that make me homophobic because I just said I don't support gay marriage? I'd sure hope not, because I don't have a fear or hatred toward gay people.

Also, just because I don't support it, doesn't mean I'm against it. Just like abortion, I will NEVER support the idea, but I'm not going to be against it (unless it's my baby).

[The Resurrected One]

Well either way. The people who make those pickets are horrible people.

[The Batman]

Well not exactly, some of those people are doing it because they really want think that what they are doing is the only way to, "save the souls". These people are brainwashed most of the time.

[The Resurrected One]

So tell me about the WBC pickets. And WBC themselves overall. What are they like in your opinion?

In my opinion they deserve to die now.

[The Batman]

WBC is a bigot group of gay haters in my book. It is an independent church and it's classified as a hate group. Most if not all the members are probably brainwashed because what sane person would protest a funeral?

[The Resurrected One]

Baptists from Kansas.

[theOperaGhost]

The people in the Westboro Baptist Church are about as extreme as extreme christians can go. They consider them baptist however the baptist church as a whole reject that particular church. They are about as cult like as you can get and a small organization out of all Christians. One group CANNOT classify a whole religion. That is like saying everyone who practices Islam is going to hijack a plane and conduct a terrorist attack.

They do NOT deserve to die for what they SAY. If they actually started to kill homosexuals, I would support capital punishment for that, but NEVER would I support capital punishment for merely saying something.

[The Resurrected One]

As a wise man once said, Jared,

"Actions may hurt the body, but words scar the soul"

[Sage]

As a wise man once said, Jared,

"Actions may hurt the body, but words scar the soul"

Words are powerless until you give them power.

[theOperaGhost]

Then scar their soul back. That doesn't require taking a life.

[Sage]

Then scar their soul back.

Now now, an eye for an eye leaves us all blind. There's no need to yell back at these people, it only encourages them.

[theOperaGhost]

Now now, an eye for an eye leaves us all blind. There's no need to yell back at these people, it only encourages them.

It's better than Johnny's alternative of KILLING them...

[The Resurrected One]

It's better than Johnny's alternative of KILLING them...

When will you people learn that my ideas are always the best there are?

[Antares]

When will you people learn that my ideas are always the best there are?

When will you learn that you are not the most important person in the world?

[The Resurrected One]

When will you learn that you are not the most important person in the world?

I never said that.

[Sage]

This is getting shamefully off-topic.

[The Resurrected One]

Well whatever.

I'm pissed the fuck off.

[theOperaGhost]

Back on topic please...thank you.

[Antares]

Yea, sorry. Getting back on topic,

I dont understand why people feel that they have a right to intervene in others' lives when others' lives have no influence on theirs whats so ever.

So, who the frick cares if a guy marries a guy. All it means is that they can get insurance and claim income taxes.
Nothing more than that.

People need to stop being so damn stupid and stubborn.

[The Resurrected One]

Yea, sorry. Getting back on topic,

I dont understand why people feel that they have a right to intervene in others' lives when others' lives have no influence on theirs whats so ever.

So, who the frick cares if a guy marries a guy. All it means is that they can get insurance and claim income taxes.
Nothing more than that.

People need to stop being so damn stupid and stubborn.

I know. That's what pisses me the fuck off.

There are some complete insane idiots in America and other places who think homosexuality altogether should be illegal. Why don't they go to some sad countries where it already is illegal then? Then their sick twisted minds will be satisfied.

[theOperaGhost]

I know. That's what pisses me the fuck off.

There are some complete insane idiots in America and other places who think homosexuality altogether should be illegal. Why don't they go to some sad countries where it already is illegal then? Then their sick twisted minds will be satisfied.


You do realize that makes you just as bad as them, right? What you said is EXACTLY what they think about homosexuals. Why sink to their level? I would take satisfaction in myself that I am BETTER then them and ignore them.

Let me put it this way, if you're bullied in school, you ignore the bully and they leave you alone (at least in my experience) since they aren't getting a rise out of you. This is the same thing, except it's a group of bullies. They enjoy getting people mad at them, so they keep on going. If people just ignored assholes like these (unless they turned to violence) there wouldn't be such a problem.

Both of these situations are different if violence would arise. I'm talking about taunting and verbal abuse/peaceful protest. They have the constitutional right to assemble, and if they aren't breaking the law, that can't be taken away.

[Oblivion]

You do realize that makes you just as bad as them, right?

Agreed. They classify homosexuals as a group that can be stereotyped, then you turn around and classify every Christian is a gay hating person that needs to die.

Anyways... Again I don't understand how anyone can think it's their business to control someone else's love.
Anyone against gay marriage want to clarify?

[Lizey the Supergirl]

Marriage is one of those things that come under beliefs. Personally, even if I wanted to spend the rest of my life with a person, I wouldn't want a marriage. Just like some people want to be in heterosexual marriages, and others homosexual. So just like there's many different religions and beliefs, there are different types of marriages. I believe homosexual marriages should be as acceptable as heterosexual ones.

[The Batman]

Lizey check the dates before you post if it's more than a month please dont post.
:locked: