My Youtube Channel: disproving Creationism!

[ThatCanadianGuy]

Hey guys; I've been caught up in the whole evolution/creationism debate on youtube. If anyone wants to see the "real" ThatCanadianGuy, check out my channel. Subscribe if you want to, and get updates! I'll be making a video every few days at LEAST.

Thanks for the support guys! I really appreciate it; and if you OPPOSE my side, I encourage you to make your OWN videos or threads on VT so I can respond!

Let the fun begin!

My Channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/ShwaNerd

[theOperaGhost]

You are exactly how I expected. Anywho, you know your shit and even though I do OPPOSE you, I'm not completely on the other side. You are a bit of an extremist in science, which is almost as bad as a religious extremist.

You are great to debate with, but I don't think I'll be participating now...haven't got time, really.

[Sage]

HOLY FUCK JAMES you look a lot like me.

...Anywho, I love these sort of debates on youtube. I watch 'em all the time. I'm a tad busy now, but I'll be sure to get back to you on this. Neat stuff.

[ThatCanadianGuy]

You are exactly how I expected. Anywho, you know your shit and even though I do OPPOSE you, I'm not completely on the other side. You are a bit of an extremist in science, which is almost as bad as a religious extremist.

You are great to debate with, but I don't think I'll be participating now...haven't got time, really.

There's no such thing as a "science etremist" I just tell it like it is; and unfortunately some people can't HANDLE IT because it makes them (and baby Jesus) cry :lol:

[Maverick]

Are you actually going to debate in this particular thread or are you just advertising?

[theOperaGhost]

There's no such thing as a "science etremist" I just tell it like it is; and unfortunately some people can't HANDLE IT because it makes them (and baby Jesus) cry :lol:

hmm...I think I may have finally found a slightly more close minded person than me...Don't get me wrong, I'm not bashing you, because I like you, but I am at least open to both ideologies. Science explains phenomenon. Religion is a 'belief' or 'faith' thing, but doesn't explain anything for me. I can live with both science and religion and I don't consider myself to be ignorant. By your standards, I would be an ignorant person.

I also feel that there are extremists in everything, including science.

BTW, if anyone feels that this is an argument, it's not. I have all the respect in the world for James. He's fucking brilliant. To tell the truth, I have a friend that has EXACTLY the same views as you, James...I should introduce the two of you...:P

I'm not going to say I disagree with you, I just don't really agree with you either.

[ThatCanadianGuy]

Are you actually going to debate in this particular thread or are you just advertising?

Sure keep it open; looks like we can debate whether science and religion can actually co-exist! Which... they can't :D

I don't think that being rational and relying on evidence, proof, and facts to understand things can coexist with irrational, faith-based belief. Faith is completely based on believing something without any provable reason why you SHOULD believe it in the first place.

[CaptainObvious]

hmm...I think I may have finally found a slightly more close minded person than me...Don't get me wrong, I'm not bashing you, because I like you, but I am at least open to both ideologies. Science explains phenomenon. Religion is a 'belief' or 'faith' thing, but doesn't explain anything for me. I can live with both science and religion and I don't consider myself to be ignorant. By your standards, I would be an ignorant person.

I guess that depends. Is it extremist to say that whenever science and religion make competing claims as to factual matters (as opposed to morality, beliefs, and metaphysics) one should disregard the religious view since it is based on more or less nothing but authority, as opposed to the facts and rigorous testing of science? If that's extremist, I guess I'm an extremist.

In my mind, a "science extremist" is someone who asserts that science has disproved God. That is foolish.

On the other hand, that doesn't make me agnostic - there's a lot of things that science hasn't disproved that nonetheless have little enough evidence that they're not worth believing, and most religions fall into that category, at least imo.

Sure keep it open; looks like we can debate whether science and religion can actually co-exist! Which... they can't :D

I don't think that being rational and relying on evidence, proof, and facts to understand things can coexist with irrational, faith-based belief. Faith is completely based on believing something without any provable reason why you SHOULD believe it in the first place.

True, a person who is scientific must by definition be areligious.

However, can science and religion coexist, as in both be true? Possibly, if you reduce religion down to "what created the universe", which it's not clear there will ever be a definitive answer to.

[ThatCanadianGuy]

In my mind, a "science extremist" is someone who asserts that science has disproved God. That is foolish.

True, a person who is scientific must by definition be areligious.

.

True.... and true on both accounts. I can in no way disprove a "God" of some kind, BUT the "personal" God's that people PRAY to like Jesus are completely ludicrous. IF any such "god-like" being exists, it CERTAINLY doesn't care about a stupid primate species on one of a trillion planets.

[thesphinx]

True.... and true on both accounts. I can in no way disprove a "God" of some kind, BUT the "personal" God's that people PRAY to like Jesus are completely ludicrous. IF any such "god-like" being exists, it CERTAINLY doesn't care about a stupid primate species on one of a trillion planets.


I believe in the big bang - evolution etc. But I also believe in god, how do I know he is there? Simply because I can feel it.
You don't have to believe in a god but that doesn't mean he isn't real.

You can't prove that god doesn't exist and you deffinetely can't say the "god-like" beings wouldn't care about us.

[CaptainObvious]

I believe in the big bang - evolution etc. But I also believe in god, how do I know he is there? Simply because I can feel it.
You don't have to believe in a god but that doesn't mean he isn't real.

You can't prove that god doesn't exist and you deffinetely can't say the "god-like" beings wouldn't care about us.

That's a circular argument. You know God is there because you can "feel" him. But how do you know that the feeling you get is God? Because you "know" he's there. And we're back to our original question.

You're right that we can't prove God exists. You're right that we can't prove he wouldn't care about us. But you can't prove it either - and since you're the one making the claim that he exists, the burden of proof is definitively on you.

[theOperaGhost]

HOWEVER...science is about proving theories false. If I take a scientific standpoint to religion (that makes absolutely no sense, since they don't work together at all), then I would have to say that God exists until proven false.

[thesphinx]

That's a circular argument. You know God is there because you can "feel" him. But how do you know that the feeling you get is God? Because you "know" he's there. And we're back to our original question.

You're right that we can't prove God exists. You're right that we can't prove he wouldn't care about us. But you can't prove it either - and since you're the one making the claim that he exists, the burden of proof is definitively on you.

I could say the same thing about gravity, no one can see it but we feel it.
No one can prove what gravity is so does that make it unreal?

[Whisper]

Hey guys; I've been caught up in the whole evolution/creationism debate on youtube. If anyone wants to see the "real" ThatCanadianGuy, check out my channel. Subscribe if you want to, and get updates! I'll be making a video every few days at LEAST.

Thanks for the support guys! I really appreciate it; and if you OPPOSE my side, I encourage you to make your OWN videos or threads on VT so I can respond!

Let the fun begin!

My Channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/ShwaNerd

I believe in science
Gaining knowledge through trial and error, through proven facts
As a scientist I keep my mind open to many possibility's string theory, quantum gravity, invisibility(that's just bending light) etc....
I maintain a certain level of healthy skepticism

Based off what I've seen in your youtube channel
and here
Your just pissed at the church, your having fun mocking it
Are your parents religious? this a rebellion thing?

Science and religion do not get along that's a fact
that dose not mean the religion is completely useless and horrible
it has allowed many diverse and independent cultures to form
Which as a species has helped us greatly

And you cannot tell me as a scientist who only believes in whats been proven tell me what happens when we die
Neither matter nor energy can be created or destroyed, only changed
PERIOD
So our matter and energy will never die just change
technically were made out of the same elements as the stars themselves
Do we retain a level of consciousness, yes or no?
You can't prove either way

I CHOOSE to take a LEAP OF FAITH and believe that we turn back into raw elements and that's that
But I can't prove it

[ThatCanadianGuy]

that dose not mean the religion is completely useless and horrible
it has allowed many diverse and independent cultures to form
Which as a species has helped us greatly

And you cannot tell me as a scientist who only believes in whats been proven tell me what happens when we die
Neither matter nor energy can be created or destroyed, only changed
PERIOD
So our matter and energy will never die just change
technically were made out of the same elements as the stars themselves
Do we retain a level of consciousness, yes or no?
You can't prove either way

I CHOOSE to take a LEAP OF FAITH and believe that we turn back into raw elements and that's that
But I can't prove it

1. You cannot say religion has "helped" by making a diverse culture. The PEOPLE living in a certain region of the world made the culture themselves, without the impediments of religion our culture would be better off. And how can you say that religion/culture HELPS us as a SPECIES. The whole problem of DIVISION between cultures comes from their separate religions and gives us a big reason to KILL each other.

2. Yes we can prove that you don't "remain conscious" in some form after you die. YES you do change state (your matter is not destroyed) but matter itself doesn't meet the criteria for consciousness. If it did we'd see rocks socializing and somehow "communicating".

3. I DON'T take a leap of faith knowing that we become unassorted atoms. Its a fact; we rot. As soon as our brains die, which we NEED for consciousness, we are no different from any other arrangement of elements. It's science, where no leaps of faith are involved.

[thesphinx]

In my opinion I think you are being the close minded person here.
You simply will not accept religion even though you can't disprove it.
I agree with what Whisper said.
I can accept your beliefs, can you accept mine?
That is the real question.

[theOperaGhost]

In my opinion I think you are being the close minded person here.
You simply will not accept religion even though you can't disprove it.
I agree with what Whisper said.
I can accept your beliefs, can you accept mine?
That is the real question.

I agree with that. I can accept science and I have a belief in God (not the whole bible, just God)...I must be more open-minded than I thought I was...

[Oblivion]

I believe in the big bang - evolution etc. But I also believe in god, how do I know he is there? Simply because I can feel it.
You don't have to believe in a god but that doesn't mean he isn't real.

You can't prove that god doesn't exist and you deffinetely can't say the "god-like" beings wouldn't care about us.

You can believe in god, but that doesn't mean hes real.

You can't prove god does exist either.

You guys could say anyone is close minded,
That has a religion, or science
Because that's what they believe,
And people aren't about to give that up,
So they wont believe anything else.

[Whisper]

Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are even incapable of forming such opinions.
- Albert Einstein

1. You cannot say religion has "helped" by making a diverse culture. The PEOPLE living in a certain region of the world made the culture themselves, without the impediments of religion our culture would be better off. And how can you say that religion/culture HELPS us as a SPECIES. The whole problem of DIVISION between cultures comes from their separate religions and gives us a big reason to KILL each other.
1. That's is a completely biased and unfounded claim your forcing your own beliefs onto the facts at hand. without the religions formed, the pyramids would never have been built. Great city's like Tenochtitlan, or the Olympics would never have been formed, Saint Peter’s Basilica never would have happened. Many historic empires owed allot of there power to the religions that held the people together, etc....
weither you like to admit it or not religion has greatly shaped who we are as a species, I as an athiest and a scientist have no problem acknowleging that because IT'S A FACT.
As far as your "the world has never been so divided, we all hate eachother and its jebuses fault"
Thats bull the world is quickly turning into one global community we have never in all of human history been so interconnected all accross the globe this site on the internet allowing me to communicate with you is a testiment to that.


2. Yes we can prove that you don't "remain conscious" in some form after you die. YES you do change state (your matter is not destroyed) but matter itself doesn't meet the criteria for consciousness. If it did we'd see rocks socializing and somehow "communicating".
Negative
The human brain is an extremely complex organ that we have just begun to tap the surface on (I'm a psych major). But does that organ alone define who and what we are? Or does the electircal impulses that course through our synapses, surging through our brain and the rest of the nervous system make up some part aswell?
You CANNOT prove either way
you may think you can just like many people are hardset that the earth is 6,000yrs old

Do you belive that the universe started with the big bang?
PERIOD
On what grounds, what basis do you reason that the big bang even happened?
Can you prove it?


If quantum mechanics hasn't profoundly shocked you, you haven't understood it yet.
- Niels Bohr

3. I DON'T take a leap of faith knowing that we become unassorted atoms. Its a fact; we rot. As soon as our brains die, which we NEED for consciousness, we are no different from any other arrangement of elements. It's science, where no leaps of faith are involved.
Considering matter cannot be destroyed I think flat out demanding we rot is a little short sighted a great deal more than that occours

What is matter anyway?
As a friend I suggest you watch a documentrary called
What The Bleep Do We (K)now? (http://www.whatthebleep.com/)
A guy my age came here from austin texas to go hunting and we started talking about diffrent theorys like quantum physics, string theory etc...
and he gave me a copy of this



Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.
- Albert Einstein, in The New Convergence

[CaptainObvious]

I could say the same thing about gravity, no one can see it but we feel it.
No one can prove what gravity is so does that make it unreal?

That is an incredibly stupid example, sorry. The difference is that we don't believe that gravity exists because we feel it; we believe it exist because scientists formulated guesses as to what it did, tested them and were proved correct. Then, they made predictions based on those models, tested those predictions and they turned out to be true too. So the theory of gravity is obviously true. If God could be experimentally tested, and valid predictions made based on his existence that would differ if he didn't exist, then that would be a scientific proposition. But I haven't seen any experiments like that yet.

HOWEVER...science is about proving theories false. If I take a scientific standpoint to religion (that makes absolutely no sense, since they don't work together at all), then I would have to say that God exists until proven false.

This is a bastardization of the scientific method. Science is about disproving theories, but that does not mean that everything is assumed true until proved otherwise. To be accepted as a scientific theory worthy of disproof, ideas must meet a certain standard. That standard is an evidence-based theory that makes falsifiable predictions. The problem with the theory of a god is with both criteria. Evidence that is true in and of itself is basically nonexistent - the Bible, for example, only has meaning to people because it is adulated by religions, making it insufficient evidence. The second criterion is a major issue too - religion makes no falsifiable claims. Lots of laims are made... and none of them could really be subject to any legitimate test of truth.

That is why religion isn't a scientific theory, and that is why science does not regard it as true in absence of firm disproof.

[thesphinx]

That is an incredibly stupid example, sorry. The difference is that we don't believe that gravity exists because we feel it; we believe it exist because scientists formulated guesses as to what it did, tested them and were proved correct. Then, they made predictions based on those models, tested those predictions and they turned out to be true too. So the theory of gravity is obviously true. If God could be experimentally tested, and valid predictions made based on his existence that would differ if he didn't exist, then that would be a scientific proposition. But I haven't seen any experiments like that yet.


Than I suppose the fundamental question is how do we measure if something is real or not.
Was my point.

[Neverender]

Are you actually going to debate in this particular thread or are you just advertising?

well they are debating over who's the extremist scientist

[thesphinx]

I just watched the movie "Expelled" with Ben Stein it's amazing and I think that all of you will find it interesting.
It is about Intelligent Design in the Scientific community.

[ThatCanadianGuy]

I just watched the movie "Expelled" with Ben Stein it's amazing and I think that all of you will find it interesting.
It is about Intelligent Design in the Scientific community.

Expelled is hilarious. I loved it too; it really just goes to show how uninformed the public is on how STUPID "intelligent design" is. It's just creationism put into a shinier box.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiNGK3y5Ypg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihYq2dGa29M

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3X8aifay678

These are some really good responses to Expelled. In the movie Ben Stein simply attacks evolution because he DOESN'T UNDERSTAND IT. He offers absolutely NO support for intelligent design at all.

[Curthose93]

lol! You're so rude, CanadianGuy. Good thing this is over the web or you'd be getting your ass kicked right now! (not that I disagree with you)

[ThatCanadianGuy]

lol! You're so rude, CanadianGuy. Good thing this is over the web or you'd be getting your ass kicked right now! (not that I disagree with you)

How so? I'm proving my point; I've done so in "real life" and people AGREED with me! :D

[Atonement]

Okay, I accept science, but I accept God too. How can you literally scientifically disprove the existance of God? Like, I know you can prove things that oppose the Bible, okay, (which by the way I think that nothing can be proved unless you're there :P) but how do you disprove the existance of God?

Even more, why do you appearently attack people for their beliefs? Does it bother you that much that people have hope in society and good morals? I personally don't beleive in organized religion, but I am spiritual. Does that mean I go around insulting other's beliefs? No. So why do you?

[ThatCanadianGuy]

Okay, I accept science, but I accept God too. How can you literally scientifically disprove the existance of God? Like, I know you can prove things that oppose the Bible, okay, (which by the way I think that nothing can be proved unless you're there :P) but how do you disprove the existance of God?

Even more, why do you appearently attack people for their beliefs? Does it bother you that much that people have hope in society and good morals? I personally don't beleive in organized religion, but I am spiritual. Does that mean I go around insulting other's beliefs? No. So why do you?

God is technically a non-issue in science, since supernatural things are not within the realm of science itself. But when you wish to posit that a PARTICULAR god exists (i.e. the Christian god) then the burden of proof is on those that say he exists. Without any evidence at all to support supernatural claims, there is no point in giving the notion any attention. Disproving the existence of those sort of personal gods is quite easy (I mean the kind of god that would answer prayers and actually give a shit about humans).

You can't correlate hope in society and good morals with religion. Society and morals are based on the individuals, their religion is NOT their moral code. Everybody makes up their own moral code in their mind, which is unique to each person. I don't go around on the street insulting people for their beliefs (don't accuse me of such thank you), but if the topic comes up I'm not going to cower and not speak my mind. You are free in this country (and mine) to have your beliefs, but there is no law saying I have to respect them.

[Atonement]

but there is no law saying I have to respect them.


You're right there isn't a law, but its back to morals. You can respect people's beliefs and not agree with them. If people ask your opinion, by all rights, give it. But it seems as though you go out seeking to insult people's beliefs. Theres a line between disagreeing with peoples beliefs and attacking them for it and it seems to get less define each time you talk about religion.

[ThatCanadianGuy]

I have no problem attacking beliefs that are immoral and wrong. Mind you I'm not attacking any one person, but if somebody tells ME that I deserve to burn in hell FOREVER simply because I don't believe in a specific god then they can certainly take me telling them that is WRONG.

The biggest issue really here (for me) is separation of church and state. That is something that really needs to be adressed in the states. I will protest or speak out against any religion if it is infringing upon the rights of others (which it currently is; gay marriage, creationism taught in schools, etc.).

An insult to a belief would simply be "your beliefs are stupid". However, whenever I adress any religious beliefs I BACK UP my side of the argument with facts/evidence. If I prove my point by providing all the necessary back up; the "other side" has all the more go-ahead by me to answer back.

[theOperaGhost]

I have no problem attacking beliefs that are immoral and wrong. Mind you I'm not attacking any one person, but if somebody tells ME that I deserve to burn in hell FOREVER simply because I don't believe in a specific god then they can certainly take me telling them that is WRONG.

The biggest issue really here (for me) is separation of church and state. That is something that really needs to be adressed in the states. I will protest or speak out against any religion if it is infringing upon the rights of others (which it currently is; gay marriage, creationism taught in schools, etc.).

An insult to a belief would simply be "your beliefs are stupid". However, whenever I adress any religious beliefs I BACK UP my side of the argument with facts/evidence. If I prove my point by providing all the necessary back up; the "other side" has all the more go-ahead by me to answer back.

You DO insult Christians though. I could find more then a couple posts where you call all Christians ignorant. I find that quite insulting, since I am not ignorant. If you think I am ignorant, just because I believe in God and follow the teachings of Jesus Christ, that's almost as bad as judging someone on their sexual orientation (since some people think people CHOOSE to be homosexual).

I really just hate being insulted and called ignorant. Why do you get to attack Christians on here, but Christians don't attack you? I really could care less what other people beliefs (or lack there of) are, and I don't see why you do care so much.

[ThatCanadianGuy]

You DO insult Christians though. I could find more then a couple posts where you call all Christians ignorant. I find that quite insulting, since I am not ignorant. If you think I am ignorant, just because I believe in God and follow the teachings of Jesus Christ, that's almost as bad as judging someone on their sexual orientation (since some people think people CHOOSE to be homosexual).

I really just hate being insulted and called ignorant. Why do you get to attack Christians on here, but Christians don't attack you? I really could care less what other people beliefs (or lack there of) are, and I don't see why you do care so much.

I have never called anyone ignorant that didn't show the trait in some way. The only time I can think of is the creationism in schools discussion where frankly, rejecting valid science IS ignorant, plain and simple. The belief you have in this god is not ignorant, nor is the belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ. Now it may be MY OPINION that these characters of the bible were very immoral (my OPINION), just because you believe in them does NOT make you ignorant. You could only be called ignorant if you take these beliefs and try to use them where they are in flat contradiction of the facts. If that never happens, there is no cause for an ignorant label. Remember, I used to be a Christian myself, and there was NO "bad thing" that happened to me to make me an Atheist. I really just became an Atheist after reading the Bible, studying its history, and coupling that with our real understandings of the universe/biology through science. Its my personal belief that if people actually studied the Bible more thoroughly, they'd see the sort of contradictions, inaccurracies, and downright immoral teachings that would conflict with the morals that I think EVERYONE makes for themselves, morals that are in direct contradiction to a god that I think most people would see as... well evil really. But I don't want to open THAT can of worms here. Maybe on another thread. :rolleyes:

[Atonement]

I have no problem attacking beliefs that are immoral and wrong. Mind you I'm not attacking any one person, but if somebody tells ME that I deserve to burn in hell FOREVER simply because I don't believe in a specific god then they can certainly take me telling them that is WRONG.

Then who ever told you that is an idiot. I will agree. But does that mean that everyone that believes in Christianity is that extreme? No. And yet you attack all Christians as a whole. I understand being frustrated with extremist Christians, which I will not deny exist, but then you should criticize them specifically than venture to take down the largest group of faith that exists? 2 billion people? And why is it always Christians, why not Muslims? Why not Jews? It just seems prejudice against Christians for some reason.

[ThatCanadianGuy]

Then who ever told you that is an idiot. I will agree. But does that mean that everyone that believes in Christianity is that extreme? No. And yet you attack all Christians as a whole. I understand being frustrated with extremist Christians, which I will not deny exist, but then you should criticize them specifically than venture to take down the largest group of faith that exists? 2 billion people? And why is it always Christians, why not Muslims? Why not Jews? It just seems prejudice against Christians for some reason.

Christianity is just a bigger demographic here in North America, though Islam is growing as well. We don't see any radical muslims trying to change the constitution, or jews or hindus et cetera. We don't even see these "moderate Christians" trying to do that. BUT, the fundamentals have indeed stolen the spotlight here; I'm sure you'll agree that they get too much publicity. So why aren't more "regular" Christians standing up against them? I didn't see any Christians protesting against Proposition 8, did you? If you disagree with the negative way fundies are portraying Christians, then shouldn't more Christians be speaking out against them?

I'll just take prop 8 as an example; most Californians (if Christian) would probably be considered more accepting of gay rights, correct? Well when we look at the demographic for those that voted in favour of prop 8, the BIGGEST reason why people supported it was because their religion said homosexuality is a sin. These weren't "crazy Christians" but they STILL acted on their beliefs without thinking for themselves. I think that IS a big problem when horrid legislation like prop 8 that contradicts the constitution gets passed based on superstition.

[Atonement]

I know of several christian people that oppose prop 8 :D fun guys. lol

Anyway, when it comes to a vote, Prop 8 was askingpeople opinions, and yes, religion is a belief, so they gave it. It was a mistake of the government. Not the people. The government should've taken a poll, not a ballot.

Moderate christians do stand up against extremists. Heard of Westboro Baptist Church? I bet you have. Google it. Anyway, recently in the news, I heard of a group of like, 8 churchs in the Westboro Baptist Church, stood up against them and picketed THEM.

Back on topic, why attack Christianity as a whole, why not attack extreme christians. Or instead of attack their beliefs, attack their actions of persecuting others. Not, their beliefs. It doesn't make sense to me.

[ThatCanadianGuy]

Well then we've reached a common ground; that doesn't make sense to you, and their beliefs do not make rational sense to me. If I think that everything reasonable contradicts a belief (any particular belief), then I'm certainly not going to support it; of course it is my opinion that everyone would be better off WITHOUT religious faith/beliefs etc.

Now them westboro's. It's kind of sad to say but, they are actually the most ACCURATE representation of what the Bible says Christians SHOULD be. Unless you pick and choose what parts of the Bible you want to believe (which doesn't make sense, if you believe this why not ALL of it), you'd have the exact same opinion as those people. Their condemnation of homosexuality, and generally everything non-Christian is a direct result of them LITERALLY interpreting the Bible, if you yourself found the Bible to be literally true then you would actually have to AGREE with those horrible people. And I'm glad that so few do; that means that the majority DOESN'T believe in most of the claims of the Bible, such as its support of genocide, infanticide, slavery, and all sorts of terrible punishments for undeserving people.

[Atonement]

Now them westboro's. It's kind of sad to say but, they are actually the most ACCURATE representation of what the Bible says Christians SHOULD be. Unless you pick and choose what parts of the Bible you want to believe (which doesn't make sense, if you believe this why not ALL of it), you'd have the exact same opinion as those people.

Matthew 22:39 "Love you neighbor as you love yourself."

Okay, the Bible says the word love around 700 times in the Bible. How many times does it mention homosexuality? 3 times directly and vaguely referenced 2 more. The bible never said that we should go out and hate people for what they do. The Bible says the contrary. It says to love everyone no matter who they are. It says to leave the judging to God. I would love to see a verse that says "Go picket gay people's funerals". No, it doesn't exist. You know plenty about science, I do admit. Not so much about the actual depth of Christianity appearently.

Flat out yes or no question. Do you have a problem with Christians?

Okay, so... Do you have a problem with Christianity?

You seem so keen as to put down everything they believe but why does it matter to you? Why do you care if I wanted to worship a flying spaghetti monster? I don't care if you're atheist. I won't try to convert you. I am happy for what I have. You have happy for what you have. So what is the problem?!

[ThatCanadianGuy]

I've already said it countless times; the problem is when these beliefs infringe upon the rights of others; which is what Christianity is currently doing. I'm not so much for trying to convert people myself; I just state the facts and prove my point with evidence. Now if that offends you or makes you uncomfortable I'm sorry but everything I've said is demonstrably true. What is your problem with me expressing my views if they just so happen to disagree with religious claims?

[theOperaGhost]

That makes you different, then, because every atheist I know, even if they are my friend, try to get me to turn away from God and the church. I know there are many many Christians that try to do the same thing. I honestly don't see why everyone makes a big deal about what other people believe though. I couldn't give two shits what anyone else believes. I have my own beliefs and so do you. I don't care what they are. I don't care if you worship God, Allah, Buddha, science, nothing, etc...it really doesn't matter to me as long as you're true to yourself. If you be true to yourself and don't let other people's beliefs infringe on yours and you don't infringe yours on other people, you're alright to me...

[Hyper]

Well I still think you are in a way extreme or just wasting your time trying to sway the extreme religious side

And I still think your covering a subject which is diverse and requires more than science with only using science ( as do pretty much all non religious people.. ) just as the extremely religious use only the religious/scripture side for their explanations.

I've always believed in God infact I've always believed in the Christian God and Jesus, but I've always looked at religion from a scientific & from a simply put non-scientific point of view.

Also I don't think it makes sense to believe everything a book, even if its a holy scripture, says simply because of its status.

So to me it makes more sense to believe parts of the book ( if you ''agree'' with the majority of it ) rather than the whole book because its contents may have indeed come from God & Jesus (Bible) but then again its been left to be translated, edited & used for greed for 2 thousand years..

Hmm yeah I was just ranting/stating opinion :P

[ThatCanadianGuy]

If you start picking and choosing which things in the Bible that you agree with, you've just eliminated it as any source of morality. The morality you have is what YOU have decided for yourself, some things in the bible just so happen to agree with what you have come up with on your own (like I'm pretty sure most people thinking killing is bad, for example).

As for the actual historical ACCURACY of the Bible, that is a lot more in question. A website that adresses theistic apologetics puts it pretty well (here is a quote):

Today, there exists little in the way of historical documentation for Jesus' life beyond the Biblical Gospel, and it is likely that these accounts were not written by eyewitnesses. This lack of evidence makes it very difficult to discern actual historical facts behind the Christian stories that describe him. This, however, has not stopped scholars from defending the existence of a historical Jesus, as well as specific views of who Jesus was.

Some atheists consider discussion of a historical Jesus to be a red herring and argue that, while a person named Jesus may or may not have existed, there is clearly no reason to believe that he had special powers, was the son of God, or performed miracles. Even if it could be firmly established that Jesus, the man, existed, this would not be evidence for the extraordinary claims that make up the foundation of the Christian religion.

So while we can't say for SURE Jesus didn't exist (though there is little evidence beyond the stories of the bible) we can confidently say that none of the things he did that were supernatural or miraculous EVER happened.

[Atonement]

What is your problem with me expressing my views if they just so happen to disagree with religious claims?

I have no problem with you expressing your views. I have a problem with the manner in which you express them.

I am saying that when you state your views of atheism, they seem to be worded or presented in a way that is rude and attacking rather than informative and polite.

You're an atheist. I'm a Christian. I don't go around trying to convert people, so why do you seemingly go around trying to spread the word of atheism and insult our faith? I know MANY atheists among this community of VT and in my own circle of friends. Matter of fact one of my best friends is hard core atheist. But she would never try to change my beliefs. I would never try to change her beliefs unless she asked for it.

If you want to talk about atheism, fine by me, just think about how people will respond to it before you present it.