guns

[josh92]

What do you guys think about the gun laws in the US or Canada for some of you. Do you think citizens should be allowed to own guns? Personally i think every one should own a gun. If everyone owned a gun there would be allot less burglary's. If im a bugler do i rob the house with the people who are in the NRA (National Rifle Association) or the people down the street who own nothing but a baseball bat for protection. If guns where illegal then the only people who would have them would be the criminals. And if 99% of the people in the US dont have a gun whats stopping the criminals who have guns from robbing every house from Main to California? I am a very big supporter of gun rights because i hunt allot and because i think everyone should have the right to protect themselves. What do you guys think? and btw 40% of houses in america have guns in them

[Oblivion]

I disagree.
I would think more than half the population of America either
A) Doesn't know how to use a gun, and wouldn't bother learning
or
B) Wouldn't be able to actually shoot it at someone because it could hurt hem so bad.

When you point a gun at a robber, or crook, or kidnapper or whatever, and you don;t know how to use it, you actually decrease the chance you'll get away unhurt.
When a crook sees a gun they aren't going to back off and run away.
They get scared: and maybe pull out a gun of their own, or another weapon. And they know how to use it.

Sure some people would easily be able to shoot someone stealing from or attacking them, but a lot wouldn't.
So i think keeping a gun would be bad for a lot of people; it would just bring violence, hazards, and uselessness into houses [for most people].

[Rutherford The Brave]

What about those injured when someone is protecting their home? Imagine all the involuntary manslaughters caused by such actions. The birth to death ration would be way over the top with deaths. Plus imagine all the hunting would happen, species would be dangerously close to extinction and it would ruin ecosystems. By the by 40% of houses do not have guns in the its more like 18%.

[josh92]

Just wondering where you got the number 18%? According to the NRA which is the leading gun rights activist group its 40%. and only about 30% are registered. The other 10% is a estimation made by them could be more could be less.

[Rutherford The Brave]

Its the NRA of course its going to exaggerate its numbers its propaganda.

[Antares]

I disagree also. I think that everyone is entitled to a gun however
The must undergo a few things. They must have a safe and gun lock purchased and it must be always locked or stored when in the home. Some may think this is steep but a few weeks ago a Minnesota boy was shot and killed by a friend who found the loaded weapon in a nightstand.
They have to go to target practice and attend classes. Have a full criminal background check and if they pass they have to wait 6 months before they are fully legal to have their gun. (6 months from applicaiton). In order to get their license then they have to get checked out by some official to make sure they have their stuff purchased and stuff.
Some people may think this is steep but this is the safest way I can think of.

[ThatCanadianGuy]

Guns are totally safe. It's the PEOPLE that need to be fixed!

People that buy guns for self defence and whatnot are NOT ignorant of "how to shoot it". When you buy a gun, you need to be able to use it to save your life. What do you think shooting ranges are for? I'm going for my license soon and I'll be getting as much practice as I can! Not just to be more accurate when a life is at stake.... its just a lot of fun!

That's so terrible that a child died, but it's not the "guns" fault. What about the parents in the house that left it in an UNLOCKED nightstand? Who left it in there fully loaded! It's those parents that are to blame.

[Whisper]

Okay well personally I think gun control is vital
I've grown up around high power rifles, 12 gauges shot guns and compact bows
As outfitters we're....well armed
I know how to handle them

I've seen allot of idiots who don't know how to handle one
Not to mention the insane assholes out there imagine if that greyhound ass had a gun instead of just the knife
the one horrible death could have been an entire bus

In Canada the majority of the attacks are by knifes because our gun laws make it harder for insane assholes to get a hold of hand guns are dam near outlawed
as a result the survival rate for the victims is allot higher than that of America

Our crime rates are extremely similar
But lets face it
Knifes just aren't as efficient at killing as guns

When I was in Alaska you could buy a hand gun anywhere
Personally that freaked me out considerably
I saw a ton of people wearing loaded guns....why the fuck do they need a loaded handgun to go pick up grocery's

[josh92]

I agree that you should take a safety course and have back round checks done. The only ones that shouldn't be able to own a gun is the mentally unstable and SOME criminals depending on the crime.

[Whisper]

Some? Negative, ALL criminals

and I can't stand hand guns period
the only people that require handguns are cops and military
The last thing I need is to have to deal with is some drunk pussy with a gun
nothing worse than a coward with a gun erugh
Just like in Canada you can't just walk into walmart and buy a tazer
thank god


The ONLY use civilians should have for projectile weapons is hunting PERIOD
Any crime committed with a gun should automatically have a minimum of 10yrs added to the sentence
so if your going away for 15yrs guess what buttercup its now 25

[josh92]

Hm i strongly disagree as an owner of assault rifles, pistols, long rifles, and shotguns. For me and my dad its a hobby to go out and shoot our ar15's (civilian version of an m16) We keep all our guns in a locked case with trigger locks except for the 2 pistols for self defense and we keep the clips out of the guns.

[*Dissident*]

Plus imagine all the hunting would happen, species would be dangerously close to extinction and it would ruin ecosystems. By the by 40% of houses do not have guns in the its more like 18%.

Where I live, people are encouraged to hunt a lot of deer and turkey. They eat so much their population is soaring, not only threatening human lives (road accidents) but also their own species, by eating all the available food and starving.


My general view, is that hand guns are effective at assault, but not at protection. Tasers and other means of non-lethal self protection are easier and more effective, and present much less potential harm to both parties involved. For this reason, I think hand guns should be illegal to those not in the military or police force.

I think rifles and shotguns should be made available only after taking a course on how to use guns properly, effectively, and safely.

And a good ol' security system never hurt anyone. Get a big dog if you need to.

[Zephyr]

I think it's okay to own guns, but...

A) Learn how to properly use and store them.

B) People with certain things in their criminal backgrounds, such as: murder, assault, armed robbery and things to that extent cannot own or buy guns.

These are simply to help keep yourself safe as well as others.

[A.J.]

I as well believe that if we outlaw guns, criminals still get them because they already get illegal guns. We need protection

[CaptainObvious]

This is a very, very complicated question. I don't really know where I stand on it, and I think anyone who has a truly definitive opinion on the answer to the question is speaking out of their ideological ass, to be honest. Crime statistics, issues of personal liberty and constitutional rights, personal security, the public good, law enforcement, and many other issues are involved.

If I had to pin down where I stand, it would be to allow guns for whoever wants to own them with a few restrictions based on public protection:

(1) if you have any criminal history, you're disqualified
(2) any history of mental illness, same as above
(3) no automatic weaponry, no semi-automatic rifles (sorry, but there is absolutely no real justification for owning those weapons other than "I want to", and that justification is insufficient to balance with the many massacres such guns have committed)
(4) 6-12 (i'm not quite sure how long) month waiting period from first application for a gun license until one can purchase the gun.

[josh92]

This is a very, very complicated question. I don't really know where I stand on it, and I think anyone who has a truly definitive opinion on the answer to the question is speaking out of their ideological ass, to be honest. Crime statistics, issues of personal liberty and constitutional rights, personal security, the public good, law enforcement, and many other issues are involved.

If I had to pin down where I stand, it would be to allow guns for whoever wants to own them with a few restrictions based on public protection:

(1) if you have any criminal history, you're disqualified
(2) any history of mental illness, same as above
(3) no automatic weaponry, no semi-automatic rifles (sorry, but there is absolutely no real justification for owning those weapons other than "I want to", and that justification is insufficient to balance with the many massacres such guns have committed)

(4) 6-12 (i'm not quite sure how long) month waiting period from first application for a gun license until one can purchase the gun.



I agree with you on everything except the semi automatic part. It would be hard to defend my house with a boltaction .22 when the criminal who doesnt have a problem breaking the law has a semiautomatic 9mm glock17. Semi automatic guns are essential in my opinion if your buying to protect your house and family in it. I would prefer to protect my house with my ar15. And I use a semi automatic rifle for EVERY YEAR for hunting. My marlin .22 is semi automatic and its a great small game rifle.

[theOperaGhost]

I think that for your game rifles and shotguns and such, you should have to pass a training course to be able to purchase and own one. I think that the pistols/hand guns should only be used for law enforcement and I suppose military. There should be like a certification for gun owners. I think guns are good things, but when a criminal gets their hands on them, things go bad. The same goes with people with mental illnesses and of course, children.

[Camazotz]

This is a very, very complicated question. I don't really know where I stand on it, and I think anyone who has a truly definitive opinion on the answer to the question is speaking out of their ideological ass, to be honest. Crime statistics, issues of personal liberty and constitutional rights, personal security, the public good, law enforcement, and many other issues are involved.

If I had to pin down where I stand, it would be to allow guns for whoever wants to own them with a few restrictions based on public protection:

(1) if you have any criminal history, you're disqualified
(2) any history of mental illness, same as above
(3) no automatic weaponry, no semi-automatic rifles (sorry, but there is absolutely no real justification for owning those weapons other than "I want to", and that justification is insufficient to balance with the many massacres such guns have committed)
(4) 6-12 (i'm not quite sure how long) month waiting period from first application for a gun license until one can purchase the gun.

I agree with your rules 110%.

[CaptainObvious]

I agree with you on everything except the semi automatic part. It would be hard to defend my house with a boltaction .22 when the criminal who doesnt have a problem breaking the law has a semiautomatic 9mm glock17. Semi automatic guns are essential in my opinion if your buying to protect your house and family in it. I would prefer to protect my house with my ar15. And I use a semi automatic rifle for EVERY YEAR for hunting. My marlin .22 is semi automatic and its a great small game rifle.

See, this is the beauty of a universal rule. In my ideal world (where these laws hold), gun laws are harmonized across America. Which means, if a criminal entered your house, he would be highly unlikely to have a glock, because with semiautomatic weaponry entirely illegal across the country, there's no good source of such weapons (police diversion is basically insignificant) - except smuggling in from Mexico, but that can be curtailed rather easily.

As someone once said in this debate on another forum: "If semiautomatic weapons are illegal, anybody using them can be arrested, immediately." Makes gun control a little easier, wouldn't you say?

As for the rest of your post, that's the crux of the difficulty here. Obviously you like your ar15, and other semiautomatic rifles. But that's exactly my point: I think the various massacres, murders and other problems that have occurred as a result of these guns are detrimental enough to society that your preferences don't matter in comparison. Similar to how I wouldn't be happy if people could be rocket launchers for personal use, even though there's probably lots of people who would like to have one.

This is, of course, just my opinion.

[Rutherford The Brave]

See, this is the beauty of a universal rule. In my ideal world (where these laws hold), gun laws are harmonized across America. Which means, if a criminal entered your house, he would be highly unlikely to have a glock, because with semiautomatic weaponry entirely illegal across the country, there's no good source of such weapons (police diversion is basically insignificant) - except smuggling in from Mexico, but that can be curtailed rather easily.

As someone once said in this debate on another forum: "If semiautomatic weapons are illegal, anybody using them can be arrested, immediately." Makes gun control a little easier, wouldn't you say?

As for the rest of your post, that's the crux of the difficulty here. Obviously you like your ar15, and other semiautomatic rifles. But that's exactly my point: I think the various massacres, murders and other problems that have occurred as a result of these guns are detrimental enough to society that your preferences don't matter in comparison. Similar to how I wouldn't be happy if people could be rocket launchers for personal use, even though there's probably lots of people who would like to have one.

This is, of course, just my opinion.

There will be no world based on your Ideals though. Lets say your walking down the street and there is a confrontation taking place, and you get shot and killed? Whos to blame? No one basically because the right to bear an arm will protect the person from facing charges of Involuntary manslaughter. Its a 50/50 at best if we legalized them, because either society falls due to the abuse of the right to bear arms. Or the crime is lowered due to the fact that all people have guns. Even with the proper training whos to knows what will happen, a little fight could easily escalate to a murder.

[Requin]

Well since i don't live in america i don't know what it's like to have guns as a normal part of nearly everyone's lives. Personally I piss on the NRA, like Tom said, over exagerating statistics and saying stupid things like "Guns don't kill people, people do"
What kind of saying is that? Yes i agree that if people were taught how and when to use them properly then there wouldnt' be so much trouble. But if there were no guns at all. You wouldn't have to say this, and we wouldn't be having this conversation.
Not to mention the ruin of the NRA. How sad that would be :-)

[Whisper]

Is_xrLNS6bY

[The Batman]

Did you know that a gun in the home is 22 times more likely to kill a family member or someone you know instead of being used for protection. There are more facts about it. A Gun in the Home: Key Facts


From 1990-1998, two-thirds of spouse and ex-spouse murder victims were killed with guns.[6 (http://www.bradycampaign.org/facts/issues/?page=home#6)]
Guns are the weapon of choice for troubled individuals who commit suicide. In 1999, firearms were used in 16,599 suicide deaths in America. Among young people under 20, one committed suicide with a gun every eight hours.[7 (http://www.bradycampaign.org/facts/issues/?page=home#7)]
A gun in the home also increases the likelihood of an unintentional shooting, particularly among children. Unintentional shootings commonly occur when children find an adult's loaded handgun in a drawer or closet, and while playing with it shoot themselves, a sibling or a friend. The unintentional firearm-related death rate for children 0-14 years old is NINE times higher in the U.S. than in the 25 other countries combined.



Also I know a family who's 4 year old son shot his 6 year old sister with a gun he found at his grandpa's house. I am strongly against allowing gun's into homes of anybody who wants one. All you have said was that it's for protection. What about gang violence you think it would be alright to give gun's to gangs and don't say that they shouldn't have guns cause there is no way you can tell that they are in a gang.

[Requin]

Like I said, i piss on the NRA. And Manchester Utd but that's another matter. :-)
This all came about from the decleration of independence didn't it.

[josh92]

See, this is the beauty of a universal rule. In my ideal world (where these laws hold), gun laws are harmonized across America. Which means, if a criminal entered your house, he would be highly unlikely to have a glock, because with semiautomatic weaponry entirely illegal across the country, there's no good source of such weapons (police diversion is basically insignificant) - except smuggling in from Mexico, but that can be curtailed rather easily.

As someone once said in this debate on another forum: "If semiautomatic weapons are illegal, anybody using them can be arrested, immediately." Makes gun control a little easier, wouldn't you say?

As for the rest of your post, that's the crux of the difficulty here. Obviously you like your ar15, and other semiautomatic rifles. But that's exactly my point: I think the various massacres, murders and other problems that have occurred as a result of these guns are detrimental enough to society that your preferences don't matter in comparison. Similar to how I wouldn't be happy if people could be rocket launchers for personal use, even though there's probably lots of people who would like to have one.

This is, of course, just my opinion.

So because weed is illegal its not likely for some one to have it. Its not so hard to sneek things over the border ( not that ive done it) but the border policy is a joke. If the person is a criminal he has no problem brecking the law. people are arrested on the spot for drugs and they are still EVERYWHERE.

[CaptainObvious]

So because weed is illegal its not likely for some one to have it. Its not so hard to sneek things over the border ( not that ive done it) but the border policy is a joke. If the person is a criminal he has no problem brecking the law. people are arrested on the spot for drugs and they are still EVERYWHERE.

Drugs are not comparable to guns, for a few reasons:

1) Many drugs can be and are produced domestically by criminals in underground labs and the like. Criminals (generally speaking) can't just make their own guns.

2) There's much more gun production in America than elsewhere. One doesn't smuggle guns into America now because they're easily available anyways. But if they were made illegal, smuggling wouldn't work well, because guns are a bulky thing to smuggle. Smuggling an amount of cocaine the size and weight of a gun is much, much more lucrative than smuggling a gun. Not to mention, guns are much, much easier to see on X-ray. Sufficed to say, there are many reasons guns are much harder and less likely to smuggle.

3) Drugs are still everywhere because they're easy to conceal, hard to be caught with, and if you get a decent lawyer have light penalties attached to convictions (unless you're trafficking or something). Guns can be a different story, easily.

[josh92]

I have 5 words for you. FROM MY COLD DEAD HANDS!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0B_UZNtEk4&NR=1

[Sporadica]

warning, statistics ahead

40% of houses have guns? in canada the ration of guns to households is 8:10 = 80% of households have guns but in reality its actually 1 out ofevery ten houses has 8 guns (but now its becoming more like 4 out of 10 houses have 2 or 3 guns) . also canada has the highest % of our homes with guns but the lowest gun crime in the world

I beleive that if everyone had guns that there would be less shootings in canada/usa

lets take the bus beheading, if the ppl had guns then they couldve shot him or held him captive untl the cops arrived

"Guns don't kill people, people kill people" - Charelton Heston
"Who pulls the trigger the gun or the criminal?" - Stephen Harper
"Disarming the innocent only makes the criminals jobs eisier" - Millions of gun advocates

I am under 18 (14) but i have a minors restricted liscence, allowing me to borrow guns, and be able to posses and purchase ammunition. My neighbor has a sign that says "Beware of Dog" but our yard has a sign in it saying "we Don't Call 911" with a picture of a revolver underneath it. and a novelty sign that says

No Tresspassing, Violators will be shot, survivors will be shot again

[josh92]

warning, statistics ahead

40% of houses have guns? in canada the ration of guns to households is 8:10 = 80% of households have guns but in reality its actually 1 out ofevery ten houses has 8 guns (but now its becoming more like 4 out of 10 houses have 2 or 3 guns) . also canada has the highest % of our homes with guns but the lowest gun crime in the world

I beleive that if everyone had guns that there would be less shootings in canada/usa

lets take the bus beheading, if the ppl had guns then they couldve shot him or held him captive untl the cops arrived

"Guns don't kill people, people kill people" - Charelton Heston
"Who pulls the trigger the gun or the criminal?" - Stephen Harper
"Disarming the innocent only makes the criminals jobs eisier" - Millions of gun advocates

I am under 18 (14) but i have a minors restricted liscence, allowing me to borrow guns, and be able to posses and purchase ammunition. My neighbor has a sign that says "Beware of Dog" but our yard has a sign in it saying "we Don't Call 911" with a picture of a revolver underneath it. and a novelty sign that says

No Tresspassing, Violators will be shot, survivors will be shot again



I agree with every word that you typed. And Charleston Heston is my hero. I was so sad when he died.

[Rutherford The Brave]

warning, statistics ahead

40% of houses have guns? in canada the ration of guns to households is 8:10 = 80% of households have guns but in reality its actually 1 out ofevery ten houses has 8 guns (but now its becoming more like 4 out of 10 houses have 2 or 3 guns) . also canada has the highest % of our homes with guns but the lowest gun crime in the world

I beleive that if everyone had guns that there would be less shootings in canada/usa

lets take the bus beheading, if the ppl had guns then they couldve shot him or held him captive untl the cops arrived

"Guns don't kill people, people kill people" - Charelton Heston
"Who pulls the trigger the gun or the criminal?" - Stephen Harper
"Disarming the innocent only makes the criminals jobs eisier" - Millions of gun advocates

I am under 18 (14) but i have a minors restricted liscence, allowing me to borrow guns, and be able to posses and purchase ammunition. My neighbor has a sign that says "Beware of Dog" but our yard has a sign in it saying "we Don't Call 911" with a picture of a revolver underneath it. and a novelty sign that says

No Tresspassing, Violators will be shot, survivors will be shot again

I agree with every word that you typed. And Charleston Heston is my hero. I was so sad when he died.

So you guys advocate neglegence and violence? You would put a powerful weapon in the hands of some person who has no clue what the dangers are? Why, would you do that? You seem to be ignoring the fact that giving people guns is not IN FACT not going to lower the deaths by shooting. It will raise it. Because of all the people shot in break ins and all the people shot in robberies.

[Whisper]

America and Canada per capita
Have roughly the same crime rates
The death toll in Canada is EXTREMELY low compared to that of America
Why? Because were strict with guns so the assholes use knifes instead
and lets face it a knife just isn't as deadly, you really have to know how to use it

A gun on the other hand
was designed, engineered, and built for only one purpose, to kill

[Rutherford The Brave]

America and Canada per capita
Have roughly the same crime rates
The death toll in Canada is EXTREMELY low compared to that of America
Why? Because were strict with guns so the assholes use knifes instead
and lets face it a knife just isn't as deadly, you really have to know how to use it

A gun on the other hand
was designed, engineered, and built for only one purpose, to kill

EXACTLY! Put that kind of hazard in the hands of a normal person and you have a recipe for danger.

[Oblivion]

Also, guns are designed to be easy for even the lest skilled most simple minded, so anyone can use them
Heck, kids accidentally kill each other with them!
Imagine if they were trying to!

[Junky]

Some people actually have enough sense to put their unloaded guns in a safe. Kids don't just open safes, its not the guns fault, its stupid peoples fault who leave loaded guns just lying around. Its like leaving a small child in the pool alone, sooner or later he will drown.

[The Batman]

Yea your right lets put guns in everyone's homes. This includes the drug dealers, gang bangers, child molestors, thieves, murderers, and lets not forget the terrorists. You can't say oh we won't give them guns because how would you know? You see all the murders going on today with illegal weapons, but you want to go ahead and give them their own guns so they can kill with their own guns. It's stupid giving every single body a gun just because it might be safer because the truth is it isn't. Your right guns don't kill people people kill people so why the hell would you give a gun to the people.

[CaptainObvious]

warning, statistics ahead

40% of houses have guns? in canada the ration of guns to households is 8:10 = 80% of households have guns but in reality its actually 1 out ofevery ten houses has 8 guns (but now its becoming more like 4 out of 10 houses have 2 or 3 guns) . also canada has the highest % of our homes with guns but the lowest gun crime in the world

I beleive that if everyone had guns that there would be less shootings in canada/usa

lets take the bus beheading, if the ppl had guns then they couldve shot him or held him captive untl the cops arrived

"Guns don't kill people, people kill people" - Charelton Heston
"Who pulls the trigger the gun or the criminal?" - Stephen Harper
"Disarming the innocent only makes the criminals jobs eisier" - Millions of gun advocates

I am under 18 (14) but i have a minors restricted liscence, allowing me to borrow guns, and be able to posses and purchase ammunition. My neighbor has a sign that says "Beware of Dog" but our yard has a sign in it saying "we Don't Call 911" with a picture of a revolver underneath it. and a novelty sign that says

No Tresspassing, Violators will be shot, survivors will be shot again

Uhh... I think it might be time for you to rethink your "statistics". At least two of the things you said in your post are outright incorrect: Canada does not have the highest proportion of homes with guns, nor do we have the lowest gun crime rate in the world.

http://www.guncontrol.ca/Content/Cda-US.htm collates statistics from a number of US and Canadian agencies to show Canada's significantly lower per-capita gun ownership rate, and the similarly lower gun crime rates etc.

The bottom line is that there is an obvious correlation between gun ownership (much higher in the US), lax gun laws, and gun crime. It's not really even disputable.

And finally, with respect to your bus beheading example... is your assertion serious? In the situation that happened, nobody died except the first guy who died instantly when he was stabbed. More likely than a better outcome if guns were less regulated is that the insane guy would've had a gun himself (he had no criminal record, remember, so he would be able to buy one even with gun control), and there'd be a lot more dead than just one guy. Such unpredictable violence due to mental illness is one of the biggest reasons why I advocate more gun control.

[The Batman]

Some people actually have enough sense to put their unloaded guns in a safe. Kids don't just open safes, its not the guns fault, its stupid peoples fault who leave loaded guns just lying around. Its like leaving a small child in the pool alone, sooner or later he will drown.
Where the hell are you gonna put the bullets if the gun is unloaded in a safe. Hmm maybe in that same safe. There is no way that we need guns in every home because the way society is the guns are just gonna be used for crimes that would have been done with out them.