Pro-war, no war, Pro-troops, or no troops?

[[[chickaroo92]]]

I know I will be hated for this... but I've decided that this issue should be considered a debate. This site isn't meant to be a fighting arena, and obviously nobody means for it to be one, but sometimes we can get a bit out of hand.
Anyway, as some or all of you would know, I made a thread in TWPR basically asking members to join a cause in which supports the troops. I personally stated that I was Pro-war, for the obvious reason: I do have cousins fighting in the Israeli Army, and I do happen to support our troops and want them coming home safe and sound. However, did it ever occur that, for example you're being bullied. Do you sit there and take the punch? Do you "fight" back? Or do you have friends helping you out? Or fight back with help from friends? Basically, the ONLY reason why BOTH the USA and ISRAEL are fighting, is only in defense. I don't know why people keep on saying, "Oh look at them kill innocent people", when sadly, they're being killed as well.

So, do you think it should be called Pro-troops, or Pro-war? Or nothing? Do you think that people who are Pro-war are deluded, and should be treated like they're sick? What do you think?

Also, sorry in advance if this topic is a bit too much. I just wanted to debate this issue.

[The Batman]

I think the world has a pretty fucked up conscience if you kill someone in your country it's murder but if you take it over seas and send a troop your a hero.

[Whisper]

Israel exists illegally
Non the less its there and its been there long enough a compromise needs to be made
and Israel isn't fighting in self defense they invaded there's blood on both sides
and nothing but raw hatred
and America isn't fighting in self defense they have the worlds most powerful military there budget in 05 was 3/4 of a trillion dollars
when it comes to the middle east
america can make it disappear very quickly if they so choose
and no I'm not talking nuclear arms
those wouldn't be required
America, the UK, Canada, Australia, etc.... Are trying to stabilize the middle east

A cause I believe to be necessary

Defense has a big role to play in the reasoning behind it
but if it was just for defensive reasons
The middle east would be a very very bloody place today


Killing people is easy
Stabilizing a country with the ideological problems afghanistan and iraq are facing is much more difficult

[theOperaGhost]

I am pro-troops. I am also pro-war if it is necessary. I don't however believe the war America is in is necessary. Sadly, war is sometimes necessary. No matter what war it is, necessary or not, I will always be a supporter of the American troops.

[Whisper]

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I agree in some cases
I support some areas
But it is very dangerous and unwise as a public to blindly support


I will say
without a doubt
there is something very wrong going on
I don't know how to solve it
Leaving won't work because they WILL return
Staying isn't working
and I don't know of the other options...

[CaptainObvious]

I am relatively pro-Israel, but to say that they are only fighting in self-defense is simplistic. Issues like aggressive settlement expansion into Palestinian territory are most certainly not "defensive". Put it this way: the IDF has committed enough atrocious acts that were circumstances different it would likely be listed as a terrorist group.

[NextToNormal]

you dont necessarily have to be pro-war to support our troops in my opinion. of course we need to give our troops our full support and back them, but we dont have to support wars that we dont believe in. whatever the conflict is, whether we believe its a righteous cause to be fighting for or not, our troops have to know we are behind them.

[[[chickaroo92]]]

I am relatively pro-Israel, but to say that they are only fighting in self-defense is simplistic. Issues like aggressive settlement expansion into Palestinian territory are most certainly not "defensive". Put it this way: the IDF has committed enough atrocious acts that were circumstances different it would likely be listed as a terrorist group.
Explain what kind of atrocious acts the IDF did? Because, for some reason I'm missing something here. Do you see them blowing up people or any of them as suicide bombers? How about bringing back dead terrorists to their people? hm?

[Oblivion]

I think there should be a distinct difference between them
I'm pro troops, because its not my choice if we go to war or not, so if they are there, i have to support them [in my mind].
I'm anti war because i dont think its the best way to solve problems, and many times it is for stupid reasons. People die for no reason.

[Antares]

I support the troops. I do not support the war. Plain and simple.

I don't reall yunderstand how to answer your question but I mean...they are figting a war. I am kjsfdjajfkla idk.

[CaptainObvious]

Explain what kind of atrocious acts the IDF did? Because, for some reason I'm missing something here. Do you see them blowing up people or any of them as suicide bombers? How about bringing back dead terrorists to their people? hm?

Did I say that the IDF were suicide bombers? Or are you just trying to make a straw man argument in an attempt to score cheap points on me?

Members of the IDF have done some inexcusable things over the years. Bulldozing houses and parts of refugee camps (with civilians inside the buildings!), murdering clearly marked members of the press, and things like that. Most of the time, it ends up having been some gung-ho racist and aggressive individual soldier in the IDF, rather than overall IDF policy that is to blame, but that doesn't mean the IDF is not responsible.

For the record, I support much of what the IDF does and in no way consider Palestinian terrorists to be anything other than scum. But this is a complicated issue, and there has been a lot of innocent blood shed by both sides. To say it's as simple as pure self-defense is ignorant. If it were, Israel wouldn't be aggressively expanding settlements in the West Bank (the #1 most important thing that I think is wrong at the moment with what Israel is doing).

[CaptainObvious]

Here is documentation of 2 of the many horrible things the IDF has done:

http://www.gush-shalom.org/archives/kurdi_eng.html describes the whiskey-fueled devastation of the Jenin refugee camp by a desperate and unstable IDF soldier with a reputation for uncaring.

http://www.reuters.com/news/video?videoId=88924&newsChannel=topNews is a video and report on a Reuters cameraman whose press truck (clearly marked) was shelled by an Israeli tank. A Reuters reporter and 8 other civilians were killed in the attack.

These are inexcusable acts, in my opinion.

[[[chickaroo92]]]

Did I say that the IDF were suicide bombers? Or are you just trying to make a straw man argument in an attempt to score cheap points on me?

Members of the IDF have done some inexcusable things over the years. Bulldozing houses and parts of refugee camps (with civilians inside the buildings!), murdering clearly marked members of the press, and things like that. Most of the time, it ends up having been some gung-ho racist and aggressive individual soldier in the IDF, rather than overall IDF policy that is to blame, but that doesn't mean the IDF is not responsible.

For the record, I support much of what the IDF does and in no way consider Palestinian terrorists to be anything other than scum. But this is a complicated issue, and there has been a lot of innocent blood shed by both sides. To say it's as simple as pure self-defense is ignorant. If it were, Israel wouldn't be aggressively expanding settlements in the West Bank (the #1 most important thing that I think is wrong at the moment with what Israel is doing).
You're the one who said the IDF would probably full under "a terrorist organization" in your previous post. Ugh. I hate it when people are always pointing fingers at Israel. What about everything those terrorists did to Israel? Huh? If Israel is under attack, they have to do everything they can to make sure they're safe.

[CaptainObvious]

You're the one who said the IDF would probably full under "a terrorist organization" in your previous post. Ugh. I hate it when people are always pointing fingers at Israel. What about everything those terrorists did to Israel? Huh? If Israel is under attack, they have to do everything they can to make sure they're safe.

Are you incapable of reading what I post, or do you just choose to ignore it and twist my opinions to fit your view of how I argue?

I'm not pointing the finger at Israel. I think that most of the atrocities committed in the region are at the hands of corrupt and evil men who direct terrorist organizations, many out of Palestine.

But while you may like living in a world of black and white, the fact that terrorists are responsible for much of the bloodshed does not absolve the IDF of all of the horrible things it has ever done. And it has done many. Enough that, were it not Israel's army, it would be classified as a terrorist organization based solely upon the violence it has committed on certain occasions.

You need to rid your mind of the idea that one cannot criticize Israel at all because Palestinian terror groups have done worse. It's false and unproductive. I condemn terrorists fully, but there is blood on the IDF's hands as well and that's just the fact of the matter.

[Sapphire]

I disagree with war because it has become so easy for people to declare war on each other and wipe each other out. I mean, you can kill a whole bunch of people from a separate continent. I do not see how this can be a good thing.
Back in the days when swords, spears, shields and the such like were the tools of war no civilians were injured in the battles. Nowadays, civilians can (and do) are injured by or die from landmines, missiles and other explosives going off. People in Hiroshima are still deformed from the atomic bomb dropped there during the Second World War. Thousands of civilians and refugees were killed when the dams in Germany were bombed during the 2nd WW as well. You don't get that when you are fighting directly with the other army in a big field with swords etc.

[The Batman]

Isn't war just another way for people to give each other a spanking when they've been bad?

[Nihilus]

All I have to say is that this war is fucking wrong. we should get the troops out and send in the constuction and other types of workers to help repair iraq instead of just fighting. The people of iraq have a reason why to hate us. I have watch loads of movies that have proved that 9/11 is a inside job and that the reason why we went to this war was for oil.
I know and personly believe that bush cheated to become president ( watch Fahrenheit 9/11 for more info.)

[[[chickaroo92]]]

All I have to say is that this war is fucking wrong. we should get the troops out and send in the constuction and other types of workers to help repair iraq instead of just fighting. The people of iraq have a reason why to hate us. I have watch loads of movies that have proved that 9/11 is a inside job and that the reason why we went to this war was for oil.
I know and personly believe that bush cheated to become president ( watch Fahrenheit 9/11 for more info.)


I think that almost everyone I know, and people in the world know that terrorists were behind the 9/11 attacks. Why the hell do you think America would be behind it? To make them feel important? To tell the world, "Don't mess with us, or else". Like seriously. That's just a complete liberal comment. Gosh.

Yeah, the only reason why Iraq hates us is because they're so stupid, they don't even know when to stop! Are you trying to say we should just leave, and have those terrorists coming after us? We didn't do anything. All we did was go there to protect Israel. We are allies, goddamit.

We didn't go there for oil. We went THERE to protect Israel, and to protect us. We have our own oil, the only reason why we won't use our own is because of congress. Believe me, I bet President Bush would rather we use our own oil, which is cheeper, then using their oil, which is expensive.

Did it ever occur to you, that probably those videos blaming America for the 9/11 attacks are full of BS and propaganda? Like seriously. Don't believe everything you read/watch.

President Bush is Pro-America as well as Pro- Israel. He also happens to get along with Stephen Harper, Prime Minister of Canada.

Nobody likes war, but when you have to fight for your country and safety, then you have to do what you must do. Theres a lot more blood on the terrorists hands, then there is on Israel's and America's.

[Sapphire]

Yeah, the only reason why Iraq hates us is because they're so stupid, they don't even know when to stop! Are you trying to say we should just leave, and have those terrorists coming after us? We didn't do anything. All we did was go there to protect Israel. We are allies, goddamit.

He wasn't talking about Israel, he was talking about Iraq.

We didn't go there for oil. We went THERE to protect Israel, and to protect us. We have our own oil, the only reason why we won't use our own is because of congress. Believe me, I bet President Bush would rather we use our own oil, which is cheeper, then using their oil, which is expensive.

Have you actually seen how much fuel costs in the middle east?

[[[chickaroo92]]]

He wasn't talking about Israel, he was talking about Iraq.



Have you actually seen how much fuel costs in the middle east?
He said that Iraq have a reason to hate us. Meaning, that Israel has a reason to be hated.

Also, seeing how much gas costs these days, it must have something to do with the middle east being either expensive or really idiotic.

[Whisper]

Chay the reason you're not using you're own oil is because thats being left as a trump card incase of war or when other areas dry up
America won't use it until it absolutely has to

Nobody cares about Israel not because we hate them, because there big boys that can take care of themselves
they've been given hundreds of millions of dollars worth of tech from the states
and have a sizable force
If anything Israel exists to help protect Americas interests

[Sapphire]

He said that Iraq have a reason to hate us. Meaning, that Israel has a reason to be hated.

Also, seeing how much gas costs these days, it must have something to do with the middle east being either expensive or really idiotic.

In Kuwait you can fill a reasonably sized car up for about £7 now (I think that is about $14). Since when have the public of the US and the UK been able to fill a car up for that little?
Whisper is right when he says that the US are using their oil as a back up for when the situation gets really bad.

And if you look over Dathrage's post, you will see that he never mentioned Israel.

[[[chickaroo92]]]

In Kuwait you can fill a reasonably sized car up for about £7 now (I think that is about $14). Since when have the public of the US and the UK been able to fill a car up for that little?
Whisper is right when he says that the US are using their oil as a back up for when the situation gets really bad.

And if you look over Dathrage's post, you will see that he never mentioned Israel.

I probably misread. My apologies. Darthrage said "no wonder they hate us" , meaning the USA. But, they hated Israel a bit before they disliked us. (And when I say us, I usually mean "US" as in "we"). Technically, We (Israel and USA) are both hated. Therefore, its the both of us.

That's completely pathetic. We have tons and tons of oil. I don't think we'd run out to be quite honest. It's congress who won't let us use our own oil, only theirs.

[Whisper]

Israel is despised because the Jewish people took a huge chunk of land without the peoples permission basically invaded

they hate America
cause America invaded

[*Dissident*]

Support our troops. Bring them home.

[Mirataku]

im for our troops, they risk their lives so we can enjoy the freedoms we have, without them our countries would be defenceless, Im sure most people would agree that any warfare is wrong, but pragmatically, we have global responsibilities, America is the leader of the free world and must defend it, this justifies its high defence spending. Regarding Israel, I am pro-israel, true its conception is disputed but it has been on the receiving end of many wars, its a major non-NATO ally, and provides a stable democracy and powerful economy in the middle east

[[[chickaroo92]]]

Israel is despised because the Jewish people took a huge chunk of land without the peoples permission basically invaded

they hate America
cause America invaded

You have been watching way TOO much liberal propaganda. I suggest you stop watching shows, like CNN. Israel is rightfully ours. Think of all those people who were killed because they wouldn't give away their homes to the palestinians. We (Israel) gave them the West Bank in order for us not to be shot. I don't even know why Iraq and Israel are fighting over this pathetic argument between who the land belongs to. Israel is ours. And will always be ours. It DOES not belong to the Terrorists or to the Muslims/Palestinians.

America didn't invade. They are with Israel. They're helping Israel.

You, or nobody else on this website live in Israel, you don't even know what its like to have your family killed, or hear about friends family being killed. So. before you start judging, take a trip to Israel and see for yourself.

[0=]

You have been watching way TOO much liberal propaganda. I suggest you stop watching shows, like CNN.

CNN liberal? That's one I haven't heard before.

[Sapphire]

You, or nobody else on this website live in Israel, you don't even know what its like to have your family killed, or hear about friends family being killed.
You have no way of knowing about every members situations. There are members here who are or have been in a similar situation but concerning different conflicts.

[[[chickaroo92]]]

Yes. CNN is considered to be a liberal news station.

And, to forever a fighter, my apologies. You're 100 % right. I don't know everyone's situation. However, in order to acknowledge what's happening to the Israelis, you have to have either been living in Israel, or visited Israel. Yes. People have family members passed on, or yes there can be serious crimes committed. The war between Iraq and Israel is basically a war saying "This is our land, get off!... No it's ours... No it's ours!" Israel rightfully belongs to the Jews. The terrorists would do anything, and I mean anything to wipe out every single country it can in order to gain control.

[Sapphire]

However, in order to acknowledge what's happening to the Israelis, you have to have either been living in Israel, or visited Israel.
I don't agree with this either. The ability to acknowledge what is happening in Israel is not unique to those in the situation or who have been to Israel. People can acknowledge and understand the views of both sides, the action taken by both sides and the consequences even without setting foot in Israel.

[[[chickaroo92]]]

I don't agree with this either. The ability to acknowledge what is happening in Israel is not unique to those in the situation or who have been to Israel. People can acknowledge and understand the views of both sides, the action taken by both sides and the consequences even without setting foot in Israel.
Yeah, but in order to gain a full understanding, you should. In order to "believe" one must be in the current situation. Sure, people know what is happening by reading the newspaper or watching televison. BUT did it ever occur that not everything you watch appears to be right? There is numerous things that can be edited, or geared to one side and not show everything that is happening. That is why, in order to GAIN full acknowledgment, you HAVE to be there.

[Whisper]

Yes. CNN is considered to be a liberal news station.
Not all of us are American...typical
I don't watch CNN
and our press has more freedom than that of Americas
http://declanbutler.info/blog/?p=83
"propaganda" not an issue

And, to forever a fighter, my apologies. You're 100 % right. I don't know everyone's situation. However, in order to acknowledge what's happening to the Israelis, you have to have either been living in Israel, or visited Israel. Yes. People have family members passed on, or yes there can be serious crimes committed. The war between Iraq and Israel is basically a war saying "This is our land, get off!... No it's ours... No it's ours!" Israel rightfully belongs to the Jews. The terrorists would do anything, and I mean anything to wipe out every single country it can in order to gain control.

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I'm not saying Israel is some shithole of a country especially as far as middle eastern countries go
I'm saying it has some SERIOUS issues that it needs to be held accountable for in order to force it to fix
no different than any other country
The west should NOT blindly support them, for decades Canada was neutral only in the past 18 months under a new PM have we sided with Israel, unfortunately.

[[[chickaroo92]]]

Not all of us are American...typical
I don't watch CNN
and our press has more freedom than that of Americas
http://declanbutler.info/blog/?p=83
"propaganda" not an issue



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I'm not saying Israel is some shithole of a country especially as far as middle eastern countries go
I'm saying it has some SERIOUS issues that it needs to be held accountable for in order to force it to fix
no different than any other country
The west should NOT blindly support them, for decades Canada was neutral only in the past 18 months under a new PM have we sided with Israel, unfortunately.

We have more freedom here to express our opinions then you do in Canada. This isn't a debate between American and Canada. It's a debate on whether we should support the war or not, or support the troops, or not.

There's ONLY issues because people, called the Terrorists are making issues. Seriously Cody, Israel is full of warm and fuzzy people [gosh] and do you honestly think we're doing this, because we're the ones with issues? Do you honestly think that people that happen to be Israelis are liking all this fighting? Israel is a peaceful place, with peaceful people. It was never like this until terrorists started up. America happens to be Allies with Israel, so does Canada. It looks to me, that if you're Republican (Conservative) you're most likely to be Pro-Israel, then you are if you're Liberal.
Why shouldn't the West support Israel? Are you trying to say we should support the terrorists and their families? Is that it? I'd die before the day I even thought of supporting those hideous people. No. I am not being racist. I am being smart. Israel doesn't have issues.

Stephan Harper happens to be doing an amazing job. He's lasted probably more then Paul Martin has. Which obviously means the people of Canada love him. It so happens that he is Pro- Israel, and he had (or has) an office near the Jewish federation.

If we shouldn't be supporting Israel. Then who should we be supporting? The troops are doing an amazing job, and they should be supported, for their effort and love for Israel.

[Sapphire]

Yeah, but in order to gain a full understanding, you should. In order to "believe" one must be in the current situation. Sure, people know what is happening by reading the newspaper or watching televison. BUT did it ever occur that not everything you watch appears to be right? There is numerous things that can be edited, or geared to one side and not show everything that is happening. That is why, in order to GAIN full acknowledgment, you HAVE to be there.

Not always.
People in Germany didn't all know the full extent of the mass execution of Jews under Hitler. People in the USSR didn't know the full extent of the mass executions in their countries under Stalin. The people of Uganda didn't know the full extent of the executions carried out under Amin.
Not every situation is crystal clear when looking from the inside.

Yes, censorship in the media can blur the image that people get of the situation. But, there are ways around it.The full picture can be obtained by going to the right sources.

[Antares]

Can we get back on topic please?

[CaptainObvious]

chay, not all of us have had terrorists bomb our country and kill our family and friends. You're right about that, and it's an experience that is extremely important to this debate. But think for the other side, for a moment - have you ever had your home in a refugee camp bulldozed by a drunk and psychotic desperate Israeli operating with the IDF?

My point, which you seem to continue to miss, is that while Palestinian terrorist organizations have done a lot of horrible, horrible things, Israel too has been party to some horrendous actions. And whiel Israel has made a lot of steps forward, situations like the continued settlement in Gaza, against both ratified treaties Israel has signed and other international law is reprehensible.

I am the first to condemn terrorists and the horrible things they do. I'm not some foolish protest-happy nutjob (like a friend of mine) who blames everything on Israel. Yet my being even-handed in this debate requires me (and you) to acknowledge that Israel is committing its share of terrible acts.

Israel's oppression of some parts of the Occupied Territories does not excuse Palestinian terror. But Palestinian terror does not excuse Israeli oppression. This stuff works both ways, bud.

[krystalm]

i feel bad, because i don't support the troops mostly, if you shoot/bomb another man, i can't support you.

[Sapphire]

chay, not all of us have had terrorists bomb our country and kill our family and friends. You're right about that, and it's an experience that is extremely important to this debate. But think for the other side, for a moment - have you ever had your home in a refugee camp bulldozed by a drunk and psychotic desperate Israeli operating with the IDF?

My point, which you seem to continue to miss, is that while Palestinian terrorist organizations have done a lot of horrible, horrible things, Israel too has been party to some horrendous actions. And whiel Israel has made a lot of steps forward, situations like the continued settlement in Gaza, against both ratified treaties Israel has signed and other international law is reprehensible.

I am the first to condemn terrorists and the horrible things they do. I'm not some foolish protest-happy nutjob (like a friend of mine) who blames everything on Israel. Yet my being even-handed in this debate requires me (and you) to acknowledge that Israel is committing its share of terrible acts.

Israel's oppression of some parts of the Occupied Territories does not excuse Palestinian terror. But Palestinian terror does not excuse Israeli oppression. This stuff works both ways, bud.

Agree completely.

[josh92]

Most of you on here dont know what is like to have a loved one over there. I DO. My DAD fought in Iraq for 12 months and is now permanently disabled. Along with SEVER PTSD. He has talked to me about the war in iraq many times. despite his injuries that he sustained there he stills thinks that we need to be there. He did think that it was a war for BOTH oil and the freedom of the iraqi people. He told me many times that he thinks that there is a hidden agenda that we dont know about. Who ever said that they dont support the soldiers in iraq you truly disgust me.They are over there dieing everyday for YOU so that you can sit at home and eat chips on the couch without the fear of being bombed and you have the fucking nerve to say something like that. I was on the phone with him one time and they got attacked by mortars (bombs that they shoot from miles away) I heard the explosion and it scared the shit out of me and i was 10,000 miles away can you imagine being a few feet away? NO EXCUSE WHATSOEVER. He told me that if we were not in iraq that the terrorists would be in our cities killing us. THAT MEANS YOU!!! They said that they pulled passports off of foreign fighters. They captured people who said that they traveled for months JUST so that they could kill Americans.They can get into this country but its easier for them to get into iraq. He explained to me that the islamic religion is not about killing people but the way that they interprate it is if they die in a holy war they go to heaven and they each have 72 virgins waiting for them. They think this is a holy war. ALL MOST all of you said that you support the troops but not the war. thats fine not to support the war but if you dont support the troops theres no words in my vocabulary to describe how much i hate you. You dont deserve to live free.

[Sapphire]

Most of you on here dont know what is like to have a loved one over there. I DO. My DAD fought in Iraq for 12 months and is now permanently disabled. Along with SEVER PTSD. He has talked to me about the war in iraq many times. despite his injuries that he sustained there he stills thinks that we need to be there. He did think that it was a war for BOTH oil and the freedom of the iraqi people. He told me many times that he thinks that there is a hidden agenda that we dont know about. Who ever said that they dont support the soldiers in iraq you truly disgust me.They are over there dieing everyday for YOU so that you can sit at home and eat chips on the couch without the fear of being bombed and you have the fucking nerve to say something like that. I was on the phone with him one time and they got attacked by mortars (bombs that they shoot from miles away) I heard the explosion and it scared the shit out of me and i was 10,000 miles away can you imagine being a few feet away? NO EXCUSE WHATSOEVER. He told me that if we were not in iraq that the terrorists would be in our cities killing us. THAT MEANS YOU!!! They said that they pulled passports off of foreign fighters. They captured people who said that they traveled for months JUST so that they could kill Americans.They can get into this country but its easier for them to get into iraq. He explained to me that the islamic religion is not about killing people but the way that they interprate it is if they die in a holy war they go to heaven and they each have 72 virgins waiting for them. They think this is a holy war. ALL MOST all of you said that you support the troops but not the war. thats fine not to support the war but if you dont support the troops theres no words in my vocabulary to describe how much i hate you. You dont deserve to live free.

Calm down a minute. I am sorry to hear about your dad, truly. I have also been on the phone to someone I cared about when a load of mortars were exploding there. The phone even went dead and I was left there for about half an hour not knowing whether he was alive or not. It is really scary so I can relate a bit.

I actually don't see how this is a religious war. As far as I am aware, they are fighting because they resent the invasion and intervention of the coalition. Yes, there are religious radicals fighting in Iraq, but the reason they are fighting is not religious.

But, just because someone doesn't support the war or the troops doesn't warrant you to spit such venom at them. They have a different way of looking at the situation and you should leave it at that. Our countries established long ago that everyone had the right to have their own opinion and their own voice, we are all exercising that right. What I don't understand is where do you get off telling people that they don't deserve to "live free" just because their opinions/views don't fit in with yours?

[The Batman]

I know what it's like to have someone over there my dad fought in Vietnam and now he's disabled he had to have knee surgery several times and now they replaced it. That's another reason why I don't like war cause people who love our country are getting killed for senseless shit.

[josh92]

Yes well sry about my post last night i was in a bad mood. But do you guys realize the only reason you have the right to even be discussing this topic right now is because of the troops? If we had no troops then all of the foreign communist countries would have tooken over LOOOONG ago, and you would be jailed for saying stuff about not supporting a war. A couple of weeks ago there was a funeral for a soldier by where i live and some people came holding signs about how he is in hell and a bunch of other crap, like this one http://images.ibsys.com/2005/0805/4816707.jpg they did that at his fucking funeral. And i know this wasnt you guys but i saw that last night so i was really fired up about this topic already.

[CaptainObvious]

That's the Westboro Baptist Church. They're certifiable lunatics - completely off the deep end. Don't let their actions get you riled up - that's what they're going for.

[josh92]

That's the Westboro Baptist Church. They're certifiable lunatics - completely off the deep end. Don't let their actions get you riled up - that's what they're going for.

When i heard about this and saw it on the news and that it was less than 50 miles from my house ive never wanted to kill some more in my entire life. If my dad would have killed and they did that to him i would surly have shot them all.

[Whisper]

Little violent..and you never kill people like them that just makes martyrs that everyone feels sorry for
you discredit and embarrass them

Harper ordered boarder security to keep them out of Canada for a funeral we had here
They managed to sneak past but over 600 strong Canadians made a human wall around the entire church
They were seen in the city but never showed...scared to I guess.




Back on topic please
I have a friend that I grew up with who is in the Canadian Forces
He's in Afghanistan right now
I worry about him coming home in a body bag everyday
But its a fact of war
A war I happen to agree we need to remain in till the job is done
This is already our second time back
I have no interest in the lives lost being for nothing

[[[chickaroo92]]]

Most of you on here dont know what is like to have a loved one over there. I DO. My DAD fought in Iraq for 12 months and is now permanently disabled. Along with SEVER PTSD. He has talked to me about the war in iraq many times. despite his injuries that he sustained there he stills thinks that we need to be there. He did think that it was a war for BOTH oil and the freedom of the iraqi people. He told me many times that he thinks that there is a hidden agenda that we dont know about. Who ever said that they dont support the soldiers in iraq you truly disgust me.They are over there dieing everyday for YOU so that you can sit at home and eat chips on the couch without the fear of being bombed and you have the fucking nerve to say something like that. I was on the phone with him one time and they got attacked by mortars (bombs that they shoot from miles away) I heard the explosion and it scared the shit out of me and i was 10,000 miles away can you imagine being a few feet away? NO EXCUSE WHATSOEVER. He told me that if we were not in iraq that the terrorists would be in our cities killing us. THAT MEANS YOU!!! They said that they pulled passports off of foreign fighters. They captured people who said that they traveled for months JUST so that they could kill Americans.They can get into this country but its easier for them to get into iraq. He explained to me that the islamic religion is not about killing people but the way that they interprate it is if they die in a holy war they go to heaven and they each have 72 virgins waiting for them. They think this is a holy war. ALL MOST all of you said that you support the troops but not the war. thats fine not to support the war but if you dont support the troops theres no words in my vocabulary to describe how much i hate you. You dont deserve to live free.

I agree with you 89 %. there is a reason to be there. However. I don't think its because of the oil, or freedom of the Iraqi people (btw, what do you mean by the statement "freedom of the Iraqi people" ) I believe they're doing this for the freedom of the Israelis. That way they can live in peace and harmony. Also for us Americans. Because as you said, the terrorists could end up killing us. One more thing, just because people dont support the troops or war, doesnt mean they dont deserve to live freely. rather they should be disappointed in themselves, because this brave men and women are fighting for us, and Israel.

[theOperaGhost]

I believe this war was to free the Iraqi people from their government and Saddam Hussein. That's what I gathered anyway...idk.

[Sapphire]

I agree with you 89 %. there is a reason to be there. However. I don't think its because of the oil, or freedom of the Iraqi people (btw, what do you mean by the statement "freedom of the Iraqi people" ) I believe they're doing this for the freedom of the Israelis. That way they can live in peace and harmony. Also for us Americans. Because as you said, the terrorists could end up killing us. One more thing, just because people dont support the troops or war, doesnt mean they dont deserve to live freely. rather they should be disappointed in themselves, because this brave men and women are fighting for us, and Israel.

He's talking about the Iraqi war. He isn't talking about Israel.

[[[chickaroo92]]]

He's talking about the Iraqi war. He isn't talking about Israel.
He's talking about the troops being Iraq (referring to the Israeli soldiers and American).

[Sapphire]

He's talking about the troops being Iraq (referring to the Israeli soldiers and American).

Where did he say this?
His reference to the cause of the war being oil and freedom of the Iraqi people indicates that he is speaking of the war in Iraq.