Homosexuality by the Bible.

[Atonement]

Okay, I thought i would post a little explanation of what I have seen in the Bible about homosexuality.

First off, the Bible recognizes homosexual SEX as a sin.

- Leviticus 18:22 says, "No man is to have sexual relations with another man. God hates that."

Before I go on, I am compelled to say that Christians are called to love all people as God loves everyone. This verse specifically should not be taken as God hating homosexuals, it is that he dislikes gay sex. This of course is just as bad as any other sin, and should not be convicted like it is by some Christians.

There is a story called Sodom and Gomorrah.

In this story, God informs Abraham that he is going to destroy this wicked city named Sodom. So Abraham pleads with God agreed to allow his relative named Lot from Sodom live. God sends two angels to Sodom to investigate and see if it is really so wicked. Lot welcomes these COMPLETE strangers into his home. He givesthem his very best food, clothing, and lodgings. The men of Sodom come banging on Lots door and all these men want to have sex with the visiting two men. Lot even offers his two virgin daughters inplace of the angels. Eventually, God destroys the city for being so wicked.

This story is really not even about homosexuality. It is about hospitality. In tradition in ancient times, if someone did good by you, you were to repay them by letting them stay with you or have dinner etc. And these men of Sodom were wicked because of the unhospitable treatment from the men.

This story is often used to reference the hatred of homosexuality but it is not, I repeat, not about homosexuality at all. It is a story of hospitality.

----------------------------------------------

Here are my personal views on homosexuality. And especially gay sex. I will again start this with, I love all people. I do not dislike ANYONE for being gay or discriminate in any way and also support equal rights for gay couples.

Adam was created by God's image. Eve was created from Adams rib. So, when two people lose there virginity, they become one again. In my own person opinion, the spirits dont really fit. If that makes sense. In a spiritual sense, they become one again. Says in the bible but i dont want to cite it. Hence the phrase "soul mate"

This is also why I support abstinence till marriage.

This is open to comments and if you have anything to add, I am happy to edit it.

[The Resurrected One]

I, like most people should, don't take crap like that as reality.

[Atonement]

I, like most people should, don't take crap like that as reality.

And I, like most people should, have spirituality and know God.

[MrPinnick17]

Why wouldn't Lot offer himself? Why would he want to bring his virgin daughters into this?

[Antares]

TWPR :arrow: ROTW

[Atonement]

Why wouldn't Lot offer himself? Why would he want to bring his virgin daughters into this?

Because to offer virgin women is the ultimate sign of hospitality. And offering himself would still technically be sinning. And since he was one of the few still righteous in Sodom, he didn't want to subject himself to be destroyed too.

Thanks for the move* didnt intend for it to be a debate. but okay. :)

[MrPinnick17]

Alright, I can see that.

One last question do you know if the term "sodomy" came from this town of Sodom?

[Atonement]

Yeah. It is. Sodomy refers to anal sex a nd bestiality. I choose not to use the word, but okay. Yeah, this is most likely where it comes from.

[MrPinnick17]

Oh, is that not an allowed word on here or something? I didn't mean to use it without permission or anything.

Thanks for answering my questions bud, I'm not really all that religious but nothing is wrong with learning, ya dig?

[Atonement]

Oh yeah, I so would love to study theology. But though sodomy is completely fine here, I personally dont believe in the word. thats just me though.

[The Batman]

Leviticus 18:22
New American Standard Bible (http://nasb.scripturetext.com/leviticus/18.htm) (©1995) (http://www.lockman.org/)
'You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.GOD'S WORD® Translation (http://gwt.scripturetext.com/leviticus/18.htm) (©1995) (http://www.godsword.org/)
Never have sexual intercourse with a man as with a woman. It is disgusting.
King James Bible (http://kingjbible.com/leviticus/18.htm)
Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
American King James Version (http://kjv.us/leviticus/18.htm)
You shall not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
American Standard Version (http://asvbible.com/leviticus/18.htm)
Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
Bible in Basic English (http://basicenglishbible.com/leviticus/18.htm)
You may not have sex relations with men, as you do with women: it is a disgusting thing.
Douay-Rheims Bible (http://drb.scripturetext.com/leviticus/18.htm)
Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind, because it is an abomination.
Darby Bible Translation (http://darbybible.com/leviticus/18.htm)
And thou shalt not lie with mankind as one lieth with a woman: it is an abomination.
English Revised Version (http://erv.scripturetext.com/leviticus/18.htm)
Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
Webster's Bible Translation (http://websterbible.com/leviticus/18.htm)
Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
World English Bible (http://worldebible.com/leviticus/18.htm)
"'You shall not lie with a man, as with a woman. That is detestable.
Young's Literal Translation (http://yltbible.com/leviticus/18.htm)
And with a male thou dost not lie as one lieth with a woman; abomination it is.


There are so many different translations to that verse that it can be taken anyway so that verse alone shouldn't define your whole look on homosexual sex. The story of Sodom and Gomorrah isn't just about hospitality it's about how corrupt and full of sin the two towns were. The bible hardly mentions homosexuality and it's quite stupid to base your entire hatred of gay sex on one verse from the bible that may or may not be referring to the same thing.



Sodomy mainly refers to anal sex.

[Atonement]

I totally agree.

[The Resurrected One]

Leviticus 18:22
New American Standard Bible (http://nasb.scripturetext.com/leviticus/18.htm) (©1995) (http://www.lockman.org/)
'You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.GOD'S WORD® Translation (http://gwt.scripturetext.com/leviticus/18.htm) (©1995) (http://www.godsword.org/)
Never have sexual intercourse with a man as with a woman. It is disgusting.
King James Bible (http://kingjbible.com/leviticus/18.htm)
Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
American King James Version (http://kjv.us/leviticus/18.htm)
You shall not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
American Standard Version (http://asvbible.com/leviticus/18.htm)
Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
Bible in Basic English (http://basicenglishbible.com/leviticus/18.htm)
You may not have sex relations with men, as you do with women: it is a disgusting thing.
Douay-Rheims Bible (http://drb.scripturetext.com/leviticus/18.htm)
Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind, because it is an abomination.
Darby Bible Translation (http://darbybible.com/leviticus/18.htm)
And thou shalt not lie with mankind as one lieth with a woman: it is an abomination.
English Revised Version (http://erv.scripturetext.com/leviticus/18.htm)
Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
Webster's Bible Translation (http://websterbible.com/leviticus/18.htm)
Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
World English Bible (http://worldebible.com/leviticus/18.htm)
"'You shall not lie with a man, as with a woman. That is detestable.
Young's Literal Translation (http://yltbible.com/leviticus/18.htm)
And with a male thou dost not lie as one lieth with a woman; abomination it is.


Wow. And when was all this decided?

[Atonement]

Wow. And when was all this decided?

Its in leviticus 18 which was written by moses by the direct command of God.

[The Resurrected One]

Its in leviticus 18 which was written by moses by the direct command of God.

Right.

So it was written back then. Should it still remain an "abomination" today?

[Atonement]

Why should it change now? Whats different now than then? Is there a new biological discovery? not really. If God wanted people to know that its perfectly okay, then he would let us know.

[The Batman]

This does not seem like a debate this is more of a gay bashing and I really dont like it.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_bibh.htm/ check out this site for some info on the verse I would have copied and pasted but it's to long.

[The Resurrected One]

Why should it change now? Whats different now than then? Is there a new biological discovery? not really. If God wanted people to know that its perfectly okay, then he would let us know.

That's shit. Are you yourself saying that homosexuality isn't ok? If so you are no better than all the ignorant losers out there.

[Atonement]

No no no, this is not to be gay bashing at ALL! It is talking about what the Bible says about homosexuality. And it is not bashing at all. If there is ANY bashing, it will be corrected. This is more of asking your opinion or if you have any questions of homosexuality in Christianity.

[The Resurrected One]

I sure do have questions.

Why is the damn religion so against it? What's wrong with two people loving eachother?

Guys can love eachother just like a man and a woman can.

[Atonement]

There is nothing wrong with two people loving eachother. I love my friends. I love men. I love women. The religion is not against homosexuality. It is talking about how sex is meant for procreation. When it says God hates that, he doesn't hate the people or anything. it means he disagrees with the actions.

[Dolphus Raymond]

I think you did a good job of representing the mainstream Biblical view of Christianity. I obviously don't agree with it. Christianity's treatment of homosexuality is a perennial sticking point for me. But this is a good, fair-minded description of Christian beliefs. Anyway, +rep.

I will, however, point out that, if sex is meant for procreation, society has a huge double standard between gay sex and sex with an infertile partner. No one is demanding fertility tests for marriage.

[Atonement]

Oh i know, I perfectly understand.

I also want to have people keep in mind, that both these stories and verses were from the WAY old testament and in the new testament it contradicts a lot of the old testament. And jesus died to forgive all peoples sins. Which makes it okay. Not that sin is okay. But by God, it isn't an abomination.

[The Batman]

Still though that verse contains so many different translations that it can be interpreted as saying don't have gay sex during rituals. You just can rely on one translation.

[Atonement]

Still though that verse contains so many different translations that it can be interpreted as saying don't have gay sex during rituals. You just can rely on one translation.

Though it CAN be interpretted that way, it CAN also be translated t he obverse. Makes sense to me both ways.

[The Resurrected One]

So the Christians who are homophobic are only homophobic because of what gay people do in bed?

...

whatever.

[Atonement]

No, i am not homophobic. No christians should be homophobic. As Christians, our main calling is to LOVE everyone as Jesus loves everyone. It is the what is seen as "unnatual" way of sex practices that people seem to have a problem with.

[The Resurrected One]

No, i am not homophobic. No christians should be homophobic. As Christians, our main calling is to LOVE everyone as Jesus loves everyone. It is the what is seen as "unnatual" way of sex practices that people seem to have a problem with.

I see (tell this one member on the forums this).

I understand that it is seen unnatural, but the love-part is not unnatural.

What about gay marriage?

[Dolphus Raymond]

No, i am not homophobic. No christians should be homophobic. As Christians, our main calling is to LOVE everyone as Jesus loves everyone. It is the what is seen as "unnatual" way of sex practices that people seem to have a problem with.

I don't understand why there's this big thing about "naturalness" among Christians. Gay sex is against the Bible. That's fine. I disagree, but I understand it's in the Bible. Nowhere in the Bible is "natural" mentioned. And gay sex is natural, not procreative. Even if it weren't natural, I don't see why it would matter. Plenty of nasty things (cholera, saturated fat, Joan Rivers) are natural.

Statements like "homosexuality is unnatural" are often construed as bigoted, because it seems like an attempt to frame homosexuality as "just not right." And in turn, people often use that excuse to be bigots. I know that's not what you mean. That's just where the chain comes from:

Religious belief -> Feelings of "differentness"/"unnaturalness" -> Fear of the different/"unnatural" -> Hate

It's unfortunately a chain that too many people subscribe to.

[The Batman]

What he put is mainly the views of Conservative Christians. I'm very liberal and I don't see any kind of love between man wrong. The bible mentions it as an "abomination" but it doesn't specifically say what and when it is an abomination. It just all depends on interpretation.

Plenty of nasty things (cholera, saturated fat, Joan Rivers) are natural. Lol that is funny.

[Atonement]

Dolphus, I totally agree.

The Bible doesn't address marriage really. Though, I believe marriage is between a man and a woman FOR ME. But I totally support equal right for gay couples. And I believe marriage is a religious ceremony. I have no problems with gay marriage ceremonies of love. That is just my personal ideaology and I dont mean to offend anyone.

[The Batman]

I don't mean to offend you but it seems as if your brainwashed by religion. All of your thoughts stem from the bible and I do see a trend in your posts.

[Dolphus Raymond]

The Bible doesn't address marriage really. Though, I believe marriage is between a man and a woman FOR ME. But I totally support equal right for gay couples. And I believe marriage is a religious ceremony. I have no problems with gay marriage ceremonies of love. That is just my personal ideaology and I dont mean to offend anyone.

So, you would support gay marriage as a matter of governmental recognition, as long as churches could have the option to marry only heterosexual couples if they wanted?

I can definitely get behind that.

[Rutherford The Brave]

In my opinion its a book, its a bad opinion yes because I'm not catholic. That's besides the point though. How is it that what is written in this book is real? Or is it just creating an alternative reality that happened thousands of years ago. I mean really please why do people say "Oh I can't do that because it's against my religion." Religion is not tangable in my mind, its just something to have faith in; but it just seems to be ruling a few peoples' lives.

[Atonement]

Brainwashed? No. Faithful. Yes. I believe these things because it is what i choose to believe in. Not brainwashed. No one forces me to believe what I do nor influence it. Personnal choice. And that is all I will talk about my own faith.

[The Batman]

The bible wasn't written as a rule book it was just made as guidelines for your life. You shouldn't take all of it especially the old testament as what you exactly need to live by.

[Atonement]

In my opinion its a book, its a bad opinion yes because I'm not catholic. That's besides the point though. How is it that what is written in this book is real? Or is it just creating an alternative reality that happened thousands of years ago. I mean really please why do people say "Oh I can't do that because it's against my religion." Religion is not tangable in my mind, its just something to have faith in; but it just seems to be ruling a few peoples' lives.

Welcome to the world of faith. Lol. Yeah, thats the big debate. But personally Christianity does nothing but to help lead a good and decent life. But, thats for a different thread.

LightxInxDarkness: Exactly.

[Dolphus Raymond]

So, you would support gay marriage as a matter of governmental recognition, as long as churches could have the option to marry only heterosexual couples if they wanted?

I can definitely get behind that.

^^^

Not sure if you saw this post, Addison.

[Atonement]

^^^

Not sure if you saw this post, Addison.

Yeah, kinda in a way. I dont believe that churches should reject it because love is love. but its still their choice. And yes, I believe in equal rights by government completely

[Andrew56]

I sure do have questions.

Why is the damn religion so against it? What's wrong with two people loving eachother?

Guys can love eachother just like a man and a woman can.

He has already shown the verse. What aren't you getting? What the Bible says about has been clearly shown. Quit showing how 'accepting' you are and move on. No "gay bashing" has occurred. The only bashing I see is you bashing Christianity so chill out. We haven't yet said, anything about "damn homosexuals" as you just did of our "damn religion".

I don't mean to offend you but it seems as if your brainwashed by religion. All of your thoughts stem from the bible and I do see a trend in your posts.

That's exactly what we're to do. The Bible tells us to test all things against God's Word.

[Zan0ra]

I dont believe in god. But thats a different matter. What is so wrong about loving your same gender!?!?!God dues his wrong yet, he doesnt have a reason.

[The Resurrected One]

I dont believe in god. But thats a different matter. What is so wrong about loving your same gender!?!?!God dues his wrong yet, he doesnt have a reason.

Good point.

If you want me to believe in God, then sure, I will.

But I won't believe what the Bible says about him, because saying God himself wrote it is foolish.

If God took such a big role in the world back then by actually talking to people, persay, why doesn't he do it now?

[Maverick]

But I won't believe what the Bible says about him, because saying God himself wrote it is foolish.
Christians don't claim or believe that God himself wrote it. What they believe is that those who wrote it were inspired by God.

More info here: http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_insp.htm

[The Resurrected One]

Christians don't claim or believe that God himself wrote it. What they believe is that those who wrote it were inspired by God.


And how does that work?

I'm about to call someone out here.

[Maverick]

And how does that work?

I'm about to call someone out here.
If you read my link you'd know.

[Yasmine]

who cares what god says? he made us this way. it's his fault.

[japanman]

I am a christian and i know that bieng a homosexual is a sin BUT that one detail is not wat i bieleve. God created the universe not us so i think it should not be a sin.

[Rutherford The Brave]

I digress... How is it that somebody that has never written his name or written anything is true? How can he have final judgement and the final say in anyone's life? How can he guide you by the hand through life? If there is a God then he dropped us off and said your on your own.

[The Resurrected One]

I am a christian and i know that bieng a homosexual is a sin BUT that one detail is not wat i bieleve. God created the universe not us so i think it should not be a sin.

What the hell, Jay.

I about lost all respect for you.

[ShatteredWings]

I am a christian and i know that bieng a homosexual is a sin BUT that one detail is not wat i bieleve. God created the universe not us so i think it should not be a sin.

What the hell, Jay.

I about lost all respect for you.

i almost did too. re-read the bolded part

[japanman]

Ya sry bout that im still tring to get these thoughts right but basically:

The bible says bieng gay is a sin But i dont bileve that.

I bieleve that god created the universe not us so it just cant be a sin.

Thx for helpin gwen. :)

[The Resurrected One]

Well it isn't a sin. The Bible is lies.

[ShatteredWings]

no problemo. :)

i can still make sence

however, i'm leaving this thread, i have very little to contribute

[Atonement]

Well it isn't a sin. The Bible is lies.

How can you say its all lies?? Damn near all religions recognize the story of Moses as truth. Scientists and historians have found proof of the life of Jesus, Moses, and every single prophet. They all existed and did the things it says they did. The bible is truth. Now, if you disagree with the theology and ideas behind it, okay, but the Bible its self is all based on fact.

[The Resurrected One]

How can you say its all lies?? Damn near all religions recognize the story of Moses as truth. Scientists and historians have found proof of the life of Jesus, Moses, and every single prophet. They all existed and did the things it says they did. The bible is truth. Now, if you disagree with the theology and ideas behind it, okay, but the Bible its self is all based on fact.

Now, you see, I believe that Jesus existed. But did he really walk on water, and do all that Superman stuff? I find that kinda hard to believe. And why is homosexuality a sin? Because some guy didn't like it and now everyone has to not like it?

Oh, and let me ask you this. If God took such an active role in the World back then, why doesn't he do it now? There is no proof to me that he exists.

[AutumnDae]

Why is the damn religion so against it? What's wrong with two people loving each other?

Guys can love each other just like a man and a woman can.

That's my view exactly. I'm not religious at all, but I was when I was younger. I never thought about it, I stopped going to church around 8 or 9. But I do remember one service about homosexuality, and the pastor was YELLING at us. Using discriminate words, and people got up and left.

When you are young, and you go to like church classes for little kids, don't they teach you that God loves all people, no matter what? Then why is being a homosexual so wrong?

People are people, whether it be a man and a woman, woman and woman, or man and man. Love is love.

[Atonement]

Now, you see, I believe that Jesus existed. But did he really walk on water, and do all that Superman stuff? I find that kinda hard to believe. And why is homosexuality a sin? Because some guy didn't like it and now everyone has to not like it?

Oh, and let me ask you this. If God took such an active role in the World back then, why doesn't he do it now? There is no proof to me that he exists.


That some guy created the universe, so maybe we should listen to it. And I say this again, homosexuality is not a sin. Love is not a sin. Gay sex is considered a sin.

This is not a question of faith this is about homosexuality in christianity, so, back on topic.

======

Later in the New Testament it talks about the laws of Moses being not as significant as the Law of Jesus which is LOVE. What a coincidence, Moses wrote Leviticus. Hmm.

As was state on the first page I THINK, it mentioned how gay sex was used in Pagaen rituals which is worshiping false idols, which is against christianity.

[The Resurrected One]

But, you see, my other questions were not answered.

[japanman]

I get it! thats why he said "even if its a sin us christians ccan not discrimenate against gays" altho im still confused b/c isnt discrimination to say gay is a sin me confused now. I think im just gonna stay with my bielefs untll i ask enough prechers churches and all that to figure out why.

[Atonement]

But, you see, my other questions were not answered.

Which ones? Make a survery like format and I will try to answer each to the best of my ability :)

+++++++++

Japanman, what? lol

[japanman]

i have been told so manye things and im christian but i bielive in non christian things and i need to ask as many ppl as i can until i figure out why gay is suppose to be a sin wich is one thing that im against.

[The Resurrected One]

Now, you see, I believe that Jesus existed. But did he really walk on water, and do all that Superman stuff? I find that kinda hard to believe.

Oh, and let me ask you this. If God took such an active role in the World back then, why doesn't he do it now? There is no proof to me that he exists.

Those, Addison.


And there is one specific VT member who I would like to see post in this topic.

[Atonement]

Both are simply answered by faith. I have faith and believe that Jesus did those things. You may not, thats okay. And God does have such roles, but right now, we dont have a mass Exodus or whatever.