heaven

[alex_93]

I am going to start by saying that my definition of good is when a person believes they are doing is right. So everyones definition of good is unique. I believe that Hitler believed what he was doing was good. In his mind he was getting rid of badness and making Germany a great country. Now there are 'laws' in place to guide humans along the right track. For example the ten comandments. Some of these 'laws' are, however, very dated. My point is is if for your whole life you did what you THOUGH and BELIEVED was right but was not percieved by others to be good, then would you be allowed into heaven?

[Hyper]

I am going to start by saying that my definition of good is when a person believes they are doing is right. So everyones definition of good is unique. I believe that Hitler believed what he was doing was good. In his mind he was getting rid of badness and making Germany a great country. Now there are 'laws' in place to guide humans along the right track. For example the ten comandments. Some of these 'laws' are, however, very dated. My point is is if for your whole life you did what you THOUGH and BELIEVED was right but was not percieved by others to be good, then would you be allowed into heaven?

No

If a pedophile thought he was ''loving children' and doing a good thing, it would still be pedophilia..

[Rutherford The Brave]

I am going to start by saying that my definition of good is when a person believes they are doing is right. So everyones definition of good is unique. I believe that Hitler believed what he was doing was good. In his mind he was getting rid of badness and making Germany a great country. Now there are 'laws' in place to guide humans along the right track. For example the ten comandments. Some of these 'laws' are, however, very dated. My point is is if for your whole life you did what you THOUGH and BELIEVED was right but was not percieved by others to be good, then would you be allowed into heaven?

Good is abstract lets get that straight. Also Hitler didnt want to make Germany a great country, He wanted to rid the world of ugly people creating his ideal utopian society. Also in my opinion there are no "ten commandments" because no one, I repeat no one has any eye-witness acount of them being made.

[george]

http://virtualteen.org/forums/showthread.php?t=25948

Like people have said in the thread, good is what you perceive it to be.

[serial-thrilla]

No

If a pedophile thought he was ''loving children' and doing a good thing, it would still be pedophilia..
yeah but as long as this pedophile didnt know that what he was doing was wrong, in his mind he would be good.

[Hyper]

yeah but as long as this pedophile didnt know that what he was doing was wrong, in his mind he would be good.

And ugh.. Your point, of course he thinks he is good..? He still wouldn't go to heaven..

Since pedophilia is universally wrong.

[serial-thrilla]

And ugh.. Your point, of course he thinks he is good..? He still wouldn't go to heaven..

Since pedophilia is universally wrong. well thats what you believe, the existence of heaven and the criteria to get in arent really proven.

[Hyper]

well thats what you believe, the existence of heaven and the criteria to get in arent really proven.

And this thread isn't about the existance of heaven or about what I believe or don't believe.. If my damaged brain remembers correctly he asked a hypothetical question regarding heaven & hell and I answered in the same context..

Bleh I'm problably being a jerk since I'm tired but yeah..

[alex_93]

And this thread isn't about the existance of heaven or about what I believe or don't believe.. If my damaged brain remembers correctly he asked a hypothetical question regarding heaven & hell and I answered in the same context..

Bleh I'm problably being a jerk since I'm tired but yeah..


I'm a she :P

[alex_93]

And ugh.. Your point, of course he thinks he is good..? He still wouldn't go to heaven..

Since pedophilia is universally wrong.

It is wrong to stone people in western society yet it is largelly(sp) accepted further east. Does this make it right? In our minds it is very wrong but in others it would be wrong not to kill somebody for a crime. Does that make us bad for not fitting the punishment to the crime?? Of course not, because we are doing 'good'.

Sure pedophilia is seen as universally being wrong, but there are a group of people out there who would wholly disagree with this. They are sick, their brains are not right, so how can they choose not to be a pedophile? Their whole lives (or the majority of them) They will be doing what they see as right. Should they get into heaven?? My answer to that would be no. There are fundemental (sp) laws in place to steer people away from pedophilia. Their whole lives they would be punished for what they are doing, it doesn't take a genius then to work out that you are doing something wrong when you are bing punished for it.

[Camazotz]

No, because using Hitler as an example, he thought the world would be better by exterminating Jews. Do you REALLY think hes going to Heaven? Killing thousands upon thousands of innocent people, just because they believe in something else? No. Its just sick.
Say I thought I could stop crime by killing all babies, so no one could grow up to be a criminal. Its good in my mind, but we all know this would dramaticly impact society.

[serial-thrilla]

No, because using Hitler as an example, he thought the world would be better by exterminating Jews. Do you REALLY think hes going to Heaven? Killing thousands upon thousands of innocent people, just because they believe in something else? No. Its just sick.
Say I thought I could stop crime by killing all babies, so no one could grow up to be a criminal. Its good in my mind, but we all know this would dramaticly impact society. no i dont believe hitler is going to heaven, but like many others, dont believe that any of us are going to heaven. its all perspective. what is "heaven"?

[Andrew56]

Well the Bible says no man can get into heaven by being good, so he can boast. It also says no man can enter heaven except through Jesus Christ. So even if there was a standard of good, and someone met it perfectly, but he still didn't know Jesus as a forgiving Saviour, he's goin' to hell.

Getting into heaven is realizing you're a sinner, and that no matter what you do, you can't save yourself from what you have done. The Bible says the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus.

Sin=Hell

Recognizing your sin and your inability to do anything redeeming about it, and accepting that Jesus died in your place, thanking Him and asking for His divine cleansing forgiveness. = Heaven

[Stark]

I think you should still be allowed in heaven, even if you did something extremely bad, and you still thought you were doing good, because you didn't know any better.

[0=]

Well the Bible says no man can get into heaven by being good, so he can boast. It also says no man can enter heaven except through Jesus Christ. So even if there was a standard of good, and someone met it perfectly, but he still didn't know Jesus as a forgiving Saviour, he's goin' to hell.

Getting into heaven is realizing you're a sinner, and that no matter what you do, you can't save yourself from what you have done. The Bible says the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus.

Sin=Hell

Recognizing your sin and your inability to do anything redeeming about it, and accepting that Jesus died in your place, thanking Him and asking for His divine cleansing forgiveness. = Heaven

I think that's bullshit. Christianity isn't even the largest religion in the world, so by that reasoning most of the population is going to eternal torment for simply not being born in the right place at the right time.

[raiders rule]

anyways, this isnt about wether heaven exisits or not, but if you did anything that is wrong, i mean really really wrong, like killing thousands of inoccent people, no you would not get into heaven, even if you thought you were "helping" your country. Or pedophilia, its wrong on every level and in no way is good or helping. So no is the answer to yuor question.

[0=]

anyways, this isnt about wether heaven exisits or not, but if you did anything that is wrong, i mean really really wrong, like killing thousands of inoccent people, no you would not get into heaven, even if you thought you were "helping" your country. Or pedophilia, its wrong on every level and in no way is good or helping. So no is the answer to yuor question.

Because you have divine authority to pass judgment and know exactly what any supernatural being is thinking.

[serial-thrilla]

Because you have divine authority to pass judgment and know exactly what any supernatural being is thinking. or if they exist in the first place.

[0=]

Yeah, that's why I didn't specify any particular god.

[Andrew56]

I think that's bullshit. Christianity isn't even the largest religion in the world, so by that reasoning most of the population is going to eternal torment for simply not being born in the right place at the right time.

Firstly, most people that say they are Christians are not born again.

Secondly, even if "Christianity" is defined as a religion, what I have in Christ is not a religion.

Thirdly, yes, the majority of people are hell bound. That's why we're supposed to go to the world with His Word.

[serial-thrilla]

Firstly, most people that say they are Christians are not born again.

Secondly, even if "Christianity" is defined as a religion, what I have in Christ is not a religion.

Thirdly, yes, the majority of people are hell bound. That's why we're supposed to go to the world with His Word. ugggh its arrogant people like you who think they know the answer to death that make people hate religion. So your saying even a good person who just doesent find god is damned to burn forever in enternal hell? thats just stupid. You can also think about well over half the world who doesent grow up in a culture that embraces jesus. They would never know who he was (or who they say he was) Christianity is a terrible religion in my opinion. They say God loves you, but if you dont do what he says he'll send you to hell where you will be damned to be forever. Real loving God.

[Oblivion]

Firstly, most people that say they are Christians are not born again.

Secondly, even if "Christianity" is defined as a religion, what I have in Christ is not a religion.

Thirdly, yes, the majority of people are hell bound. That's why we're supposed to go to the world with His Word.

Assuming he and heaven/hell are real, how would he benefit from others suffering? I mean, most people don't even believe in heaven or hell, so its not a big deterrent to do bad things.


Edit... Got a little bit disrespectful. Sorry to anyone who was the least bit offended.

[Andrew56]

You know, we have finite little stupid minds. We can't even scratch the surface of justice . . . But, I'm just saying what He said.

And yes, religion is terrible. I agree.

[The Batman]

Don't let the opinion of one person categorize the beliefs of a religion. God doesn't like to see us suffer but sometimes the only way we can learn anything is to go through a little.

[serial-thrilla]

You know, we have finite little stupid minds. We can't even scratch the surface of justice . . . But, I'm just saying what He said.

And yes, religion is terrible. I agree. You aren't saying what he says. Your saying what people have made up. Ordinary people like you and I who for one reason or another had the nerve to tell people how to live their lives, and said it all came from God.

[Oblivion]

Ok that was completely disrespectful to beliefs of Christianity. Don't let the opinion of one person categorize the beliefs of a religion. God doesn't like to see us suffer but sometimes the only way we can learn anything is to go through a little.

Im sorry, it was fairly disrespectful, but still. I was not directly rude to anyone.

I was pointing out that if god were to send you to hell for not believing something, then that would be wrong.

[serial-thrilla]

Hell is just something that was made up thousands of years ago to stop people from breaking the law because if they do "god" will punish them with hell. This was a great idea at the time because they couldnt really stop criminals. Religion and Law for a very long time have been linked together. Anything that was deemed bad by religion was illegal. Thank god (pun intended) that we've moved past that stage somewhat. I really feel bad for the people that live their lives fearing hell.

[0=]

I'm an agnostic theist who practices in the Catholic church, mostly because I find it interesting to learn about religions and cultures, and because I have friends there, but the point is I know what Jesus taught. Christianity is about being a good, loving person, not following the bible and embracing Jesus as your personal savior; the bible didn't even exist when Jesus was alive. Jesus never said that you will go to hell if you don't take him into your heart or some other bullshit like that. He just taught people to treat each other fairly. It's self-righteous born-again Christians that really piss me off; they distort their religion into a hateful, fascist culture of elitists. It's sad that it takes someone who doesn't even have strong faith in any particular religion to lecture Christians on what their faith means.

[serial-thrilla]

I believe in most of the teachings of most religions as well. Its the threatening of hell and torture that pisses me off.

[Sapphire]

Good is abstract lets get that straight. Also Hitler didnt want to make Germany a great country, He wanted to rid the world of ugly people creating his ideal utopian society. Also in my opinion there are no "ten commandments" because no one, I repeat no one has any eye-witness acount of them being made.

He did want to make Germany a great country. The Treaty of Versailles that was signed at the end of WW1 was disproportionately harsh on Germany and it was left in a state of poverty and complete vulnerability. He wanted to build it up again to be the great power that it once was. He wanted rid of Jews, communists etc because he honestly believed that society was worse off with them in it and that they were partly responsible for Germany's fall.

Firstly, most people that say they are Christians are not born again.

Secondly, even if "Christianity" is defined as a religion, what I have in Christ is not a religion.

Thirdly, yes, the majority of people are hell bound. That's why we're supposed to go to the world with His Word.

The term "religion" is defined as a set of beliefs by which someone lives their life. If you live according to the teachings of Christ and believe that He was the Son of God then you are a Christian. End of.
The main religions of the world all seem to have the same core beliefs that you should be a good, loving person. I don't see much point in saying that everyone who doesnt follow this religion is going to hell or the such like.

Anyway, back to the original question. I think that to define actions as "good" and "bad" is misleading as it leaves room for interpretation. I think that as long as you are helpful, kind and loving throughout life you will be alright for the life after this one (whether you believe that to be heaven or reincarnation or something else).

[Zan0ra]

If you belive in *heaven* then just do what you think is right...

[Andrew56]

I'm an agnostic theist who practices in the Catholic church, mostly because I find it interesting to learn about religions and cultures, and because I have friends there, but the point is I know what Jesus taught. Christianity is about being a good, loving person, not following the bible and embracing Jesus as your personal savior; the bible didn't even exist when Jesus was alive. Jesus never said that you will go to hell if you don't take him into your heart or some other bullshit like that. He just taught people to treat each other fairly. It's self-righteous born-again Christians that really piss me off; they distort their religion into a hateful, fascist culture of elitists. It's sad that it takes someone who doesn't even have strong faith in any particular religion to lecture Christians on what their faith means.

I'm not a Catholic, and there are tons of "Christian" religions I disagree with.


The term "religion" is defined as a set of beliefs by which someone lives their life. If you live according to the teachings of Christ and believe that He was the Son of God then you are a Christian. End of.
The main religions of the world all seem to have the same core beliefs that you should be a good, loving person. I don't see much point in saying that everyone who doesnt follow this religion is going to hell or the such like.


Well, I don't quite agree with that definition. If that was true, then everyone follows a religion, because everyone has a set of beliefs by which they live.

[Sapphire]

Well, I don't quite agree with that definition. If that was true, then everyone follows a religion, because everyone has a set of beliefs by which they live.

Yes, everyone does have a religion. Atheism is a religion, Buddhism is a religion and so on.

[Andrew56]

Yes, everyone does have a religion. Atheism is a religion, Buddhism is a religion and so on.

Then you would also say anyone who say religion is wrong is being silly, or no?

If you agree, then sure I have a religion as well.

[Sapphire]

Then you would also say anyone who say religion is wrong is being silly, or no?

If you agree, then sure I have a religion as well.

What do you believe?
Do you believe in the big bang or in evolution? In the absence of a God?