Irish Referendum :: Lisbon Treaty

[Hyper]

So basically it all depends on Ireland: http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/breaking/2008/0612/breaking2.htm

What are your thoughts regarding this in general? The Lisbon treaty & what outcome do you hope for. I especially want to hear from the Irish!

[Hyper]

Ahem so I see nobody cares..

Atleast I do.

The Irish voted NO wohoo!.. I just hope Ireland wont be forced to a yes vote..

[redcar]

Ah the Lisbon Treaty. Something that no one actually understands. Our PM publically admitted to not being able to read it.

I am glad we voted no. The treaty was bad for Ireland. Nothing made me happier than putting that X in the No box.

[Hyper]

Every other country squirmed away from a referendum and did away with it in parliament..

So did our country and as it was obvious these idiots had no idea what they were voting for. Only 1 person voted no and that was because he wanted to gain the votes of the people who were against it..

If it went on referendum here it would be a big fat NO.

Only a fool accepts a treaty he hasn't even read. And only a traitor sells his own country, and thats what it is for me..

Alex is there going to be a second referendum? I have guests over so I didn't get to watch the damn news :/

[redcar]

I don't think we will have another one. The politicians are saying that it looks like it is pretty much dead. In it's current form anyway.

[Hyper]

I don't think we will have another one. The politicians are saying that it looks like it is pretty much dead. In it's current form anyway.

Brussel will just repeat itself then.

Give it a new name and make it more confusing for those to understand who don't understand juridical language in documents..

But I am hoping that the treaty goes through a shredder...

[redcar]

Well you see this is already Plan B. Remember the EU constitution, that failed and out of it came Lisbon.

They need to break it down, and put it too the people in smaller managable chunks.

[Hyper]

Thats why I said they'll repeat themselves in some way.

I suppose if there is a next time they'll do everything they can to make sure Ireland doesn't have a referendum.. Though I don't know if its even possible.. I hope it isn't xD

[redcar]

Its great because every Treaty effects our national constitution in some way so we have to have a referendum. :)

[Whisper]

I don't get it
what was it for?

[redcar]

The EU wanted to change alot of its structure, reform it into a more "manageable" organisation. It would do things like create a permanant President of the EU and a Foreign Minister of the EU. It also changed a lot of voteing from majority to qualified, based on population.

They were just a few things. But our constitution states that all Treaties to do with the EU must have a referendum. All other countries just need to pass it within their parliments.

[Hyper]

No Alex they don't atleast our country didn't. And what the parliament did went against our constitution

And now the propaganda wheels have started turning everywhere with the articles criticizing Ireland.. Ohh goody the latest one: '' Mihkelson: A few million can't stand against half a billion ''

Bastards

[Whisper]

I wish Canada had qualified

[redcar]

I am afraid we are going to come to a stage where it will be everyone has ratified it and then they just say goodbye Ireland.

[Hyper]

I am afraid we are going to come to a stage where it will be everyone has ratified it and then they just say goodbye Ireland.

Goodbye freedom for us

[Whisper]

Under fierce pressure to resolve the crisis prompted by its no vote on the Lisbon Treaty, Ireland pleaded Monday for more time to find a solution but kept open the option of holding a second vote after a period of reflection.

After a weekend in which supporters of closer European integration in Germany and France raised the prospect of a two-speed Europe - with Ireland in the second tier - foreign ministers lowered the temperature at their meeting in Luxembourg, while insisting that the treaty remained alive.



http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/06/16/europe/union.php






Bummmmer

[redcar]

It's funny how a small little country of 4 million has suddenly become a thorn in the side of this massive machine. So the question is will they try and teach us the error or our ways and force a yes vote at some point or just eliminate us... time will tell.

[Hyper]

It's funny how a small little country of 4 million has suddenly become a thorn in the side of this massive machine. So the question is will they try and teach us the error or our ways and force a yes vote at some point or just eliminate us... time will tell.

You should be glad if they remove Ireland from the UNION!

Though I'm not sure how that exactly goes..

[redcar]

That would be terrible. The EU is a great thing for us. We seriously would be fucked if we didn't have the union.

[Hyper]

That would be terrible. The EU is a great thing for us. We seriously would be fucked if we didn't have the union.

SO you'd be glad to sell off your independence? I sure hell am not. Neither was I happy about joining the union in the first place.

And neither do I believe that the referendum wasn't faked.. I don't know anybody from anywhere neither does any of my friends or there friends who voted yes except for a few...

Neutrality can work.. I don't know about Ireland but here it can definately work and it would've worked if this country had leaders who cared and functioned how a leader should and can at its best when leading a nation.

[redcar]

Ireland needs the EU because of its basics, free movement of trade, labour and capital. We need them.

The EU has given Ireland so much money to develop our infrastructure, among so much more. I am just unhappy with the direction it is going. I love what it is at the moment though.

[kolte]

The EU isn't good. Neither is the UN. NWO eh? But who am I to make such unfounded assumptions.

[Whisper]

SO you'd be glad to sell off your independence? I sure hell am not. Neither was I happy about joining the union in the first place.

And neither do I believe that the referendum wasn't faked.. I don't know anybody from anywhere neither does any of my friends or there friends who voted yes except for a few...

Neutrality can work.. I don't know about Ireland but here it can definately work and it would've worked if this country had leaders who cared and functioned how a leader should and can at its best when leading a nation.


If Ireland left the union
from what I understand anyway
It would be economic suicide
Middle and lower class Irish family's would be hurt bad
Not to mention with the debt Ireland has if they had there own independent currency it would be very weak
There is NO WAY it could keep up the imports or compete period with the euro or pound


I'm not trying to smash Ireland in anyway
I'm saying its a beautiful country that NEEDS the economic strength and safety net it enjoys as part of the EU


And what exactly do you mean by neutrality
Where do you live? like what country?

[Whisper]

BRUSSELS, June 19 (Xinhua) -- The Irish rejection of the Lisbon Treaty may have applied brake to European integration, but it is unlikely to derail the process, analysts say.

Despite the Irish "no" vote last Thursday, European Union (EU) leaders have refused to declare the Lisbon Treaty dead. They have urged the continuation of the ratification process elsewhere in the EU, hoping the Irish authorities will ultimately come up with a remedy.

EU leaders were probably right when they said Irish voters did not vote against the EU. Ireland itself is one of the biggest beneficiaries of European integration. Thanks to billions of euros of fund from the EU, Ireland has been transformed from a poor agricultural country into a modern, innovative society.

By rejecting the Lisbon Treaty, the Irish voters may want the train of European integration to slow down a bit. But they have no intention at all to leave the train, observers say.

At the EU summit to be held later Thursday, Ireland's new Prime Minister Brian Cowen would be asked to offer his opinion on the chances of holding another referendum on the treaty.

The two-day European Union summit is sure to discuss solutions to save the Lisbon Treaty, but many observers believe no "fast-fix" can be made.
Leaders know, however, that a second referendum could not be rushed as risks of another failure could not be ruled out. No "roadmap" is expected until the next EU summit in October, under the French EU presidency.

EU leaders are looking for the completion of ratification by all other EU member states but Ireland by the end of 2008. Then Ireland could be offered "sweeteners" so that chances of success could be boosted in a second referendum, like what happened in 2001 with the Nice Treaty.

Ireland rejected the Nice Treaty in a 2001 referendum. A second vote was successful after the treaty was amended in a way that Ireland's military neutrality was guaranteed.

Concessions this time may include the preservation of a member of the European Commission for each member state and permanent national vetoes on taxation.

Under the Lisbon Treaty, the European Commission, the executive body of the EU, will be composed of representatives from two thirds of EU member states, instead of each for every country as it stands now.

Britain ratified the Lisbon Treaty on Wednesday, becoming the first country to do so following the Irish "no" vote. Ratification of the treaty in a country where "euroskeptics" abound at such a sensitive juncture gives a strong boost to the ratification process.

In the past 50 years, the EU has been proven to be able to overcome institutional crises. The Lisbon Treaty impasse is expected to be no exception given the long tradition of compromises of the EU.

To an extent, European integration will continue even if the Lisbon Treaty is dead, observers say.

Another option to the treaty impasse is to put some of the reforms contained in the Lisbon Treaty into the accession treaty of Croatia, which may join the EU in 2010 or 2011.

This alternative must be the last resort in that it would water down the Lisbon Treaty as not all reforms can be put into the accession treaty.

[redcar]

Not to mention with the debt Ireland has if they had there own independent currency it would be very weak

Our national debt isn't that bad. As a stand alone figure it may not be great but as a per centage of our GDP it is pretty dam low. So it isn't too bad.

But we do need the EU and the EU is a good thing.

[Whisper]

Ireland's GPD debt according to where I got the figures...is the highest on the planet it could be wrong i unno but I trust the site...

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/eco_deb_ext_pergdp-economy-debt-external-per-gdp

[redcar]

Mmm I am going to look into that site more.... some of the figures they present for Ireland are bit inaccurate. I wanna know where they are getting from. Something to do when I am bored. :)

[Titmouse]

The Czech republic PM will say no, I can feel it! The Polish PM/ President is also pretty sceptical! They need to say no!