Nazi Wrap

[kolte]

The Nazi Empire. A horrible, discusting, violent people under the command of one Aldof Hitler. Now as some of you know I'm Jewish, and nobody feels more discusted by a war then I do.(even though I'm hitler for halloween lol) But do all the Nazi's deserve such a bad rap. The ironic thing is. My dad is full blood Jew boy. and My mother is full blood german. and not happy german. evil german. my great grandfather was a nazi. I know, how could his be? One side hid and was murdered, the other did the killing and the murdering. So you could say I have an insiders look as to how both sides worked. Thats more then most people. But were the Nazi's so bad? really? the answer is no. plain and simple. Let me explain. My grand father, who I'm partially named after, Don Fredrick Von Por'himer, was not a nazi by choice, he was drafted, and the man who recrutied tretened to murder his wife and 2 children. So he became a nazi. But wouldn't we all? Would you not become a nazi to save your children. I would and thats why i don't think the nazi's were all evil, but I still hate, with all my might, hitler and any family line that may exist.

[redcar]

u r rite they werent all evil they were just following orders, however noone will ever see them as that, because so many of them infamously killed and slaughtered millions, without the slightest of remorse. world war 2 ended 60 years ago however, the memory lives on, and i doubt we will ever forget either.

[nwshc]

:/ I don't know if being hitler for halloween is a good idea. You might "offend" some people and attrack unwanted attention to yourself.

[toogilwell2006]

ahh the Nazis. There are a few things you need to understand about the early days of the Nazi party.

1. Heir Adolf. Ole Adolf was an absolute genius...politicaly. true he was a madman and totally crazy but a genius none the less. He knew exactly what the people of war torn Germany wanted, and how to provide them with it. Say what you will about his murderous ways, but you have to give the man credit...this "Austrian Corporal" who LEGALLY took power of the entire Wiemer Republic, and disbanned it...making the people think that disolving the republic was a good thing! Amazing! Try that now days.

2. Nazi party itself and the SA. The Nazi party (basicaly a workers socialist party) relied heavily on a branch of the party called the Surmabteilubgen (Storm Troops) or the S.A. The S.A. was basicaly a party sanctioned group of ruffians and brawlers. The SA's mission was to supress other party activities, and later where responsible for securing votes and party members. They used violence and threats to do this. At the time Hitler became Chancellor, the SA numbered about 2 million (keep in mind the state Army was only allowed 100k soldiers) and was quite the influential force.

The "Brown Shirts" roamed the streets beat party doctorine into those who didn't agree. So you see, there was great incentive for the average german to join the party and agree with it's principles. "Agree with us or we rape your baby girl." Shoot i would join under those circumstances.

3. Racial Purity and the "final salution". Most germans were actualy disgusted by this idea. In fact most of the Nazi parties higher officials were equaly disgusted (in fact the leader of the SA, a man named Roehm was a VERY active homosexual). But, Adolf had so much to offer the german people they accepted it mostly.

Now the german people have a very serious sense of honor and duty which stretches back way into history. THEY FOLLOWED ORDERS. once Adolf became the government (legally mind you), they really had no other moral choice but to follow his ways. granted there are some sick freaks who obviously agreed and loved his murderous tendencies (umm himmler and mengele come to mind).

ok i have more to say but this is already way to long of a post. Arguments or discussion anyone?

Chris

[TheWizard]

I fear it will repeat itself over and over i the future. Scary

[Ravenous]

I agree Kolte. Many Nazis were forced, Hitler was the true evil one, he used the fact that germany was in shock after WW1 and needed a leader, they trusted him and he brought his evilness upon that country. He was a great speach maker, probably why he had such a great influence on people.

[Whisper]

bullshit

If so many germen people utterly disagreed with hittler and what he was doing they should have risen up against him. Not to mention America, Canada, the UK would probably have helped over throw him.

One man cannot "force" an entire country into doing something that they dont want to.

I dont care if they dry cleaned suits or if they herded the jews into the gas chambers they were all as guilty as him.

They had no right to do what they did
I dont feel sorry for any of the nazi's

[nwshc]

I agree Kolte. Many Nazis were forced, Hitler was the true evil one, he used the fact that germany was in shock after WW1 and needed a leader, they trusted him and he brought his evilness upon that country. He was a great speach maker, probably why he had such a great influence on people.
They were not forced. People can make any choise they want.
The Germans believed in Hitler.
After WW1, germany was so destroyed, and there were so little jobs, it was a shithole. And what they got was Hitler. He preached that It was the Jews faults, and Hitler would make the Germans prosper again. The public believed him. They were not forced to think that way.

[kolte]

A nazi general held a pistol to my great grandma's head, and told my great grandfather do as he said, or die. The choice was their. Kill others, which actually he was a translator. sat at a small raido and decoded allied responses. Or be killed. Maybe it wasn't his own life he feard losing, but the life of his chiled and wife. Whatever the case was, during the middle of the war in about 1943, my grandfather returned to his home, only to see it destroyed, and his wife and daughter hidden in a neighbors house. He and her escaped on a boat to the united states, and he changed his name from Don Fredrick Von Por'himer, to John D. Porhomer. He spoke english verywell, and nobody knew he was german. My greatgrandma, and my grandma, both didnt speak very much.

[<-Dying_to_Live->]

hella shit nazis are still alive. they interviewed one on the history channel. they need to all be gassed. fuckers

[redcar]

I fear it will repeat itself over and over i the future. Scary

yea i agree history has a nasty habit of repeating itself

[toogilwell2006]

Ok i seriously don't think that the Nazi party could ever come back. The situations that allowed for adolf to come to power were very unique. i think that combonation is VERY unlikely. The climate is just not right. anywhere.

As for the germans being FORCED? Well they wheren't exactly forced at first. not the majority of Germans anyway. You see hitler had what the germans wanted. an answer to the question of why germany sucked so much all of the sudden and how to fix it. The nazi party grow exponentialy after hitler joined (from several dozen attendees at rallies to over 4 or 5 thousand in the matter of weeks). He simply had all the answers they wanted. It didn't come until later (circa 1934) when EXTENSIVE use of violence by the SA was needed to "covince" people to join.

As for the antisemitism, well there really is no forgiving that. it is true that a LOT of nazis where in fact not racist. Hell the curent pope was a nazi. The semetic problem just wasn't all that much in the fore ground. True there was always a undertone of it around, and hitler pretter much blamed the jews since the early 20s for the decline of germany, but at the time before he became chancellor and disolved the Wiemer Republic, there were just to many other HUGE issues to deal with. in fact did you know a lot of the early NAZI party big whigs where totaly against hitlers emantic views?

Well anywho that is WAY to much babling for one sitting. although it is all true babling. feel free to look it up. Oh by the way just to be clear i think there is no forgiving Nazis for murder of all the interned in camps. though it is kinda touchy when you consider the historic nature of German loyalty dating back centuries.

Peace
Chris

[toogilwell2006]

amazinbg how when i say something in this thread it pretty much shuts down. mo points can't be nearly THAT good.

[nwshc]

Ok, the thread didn't shut down because of you. Do not flatter yourself.

[toogilwell2006]

Ok, the thread didn't shut down because of you. Do not flatter yourself.

might want to activate your sarcasm detectors there Mr Scott

[Sapphire]

I am a quarter german with blonde hair and blue eyes, just as the Nazi's preferred (aryans). I have always been on really good terms with the germans and it was only 2 years ago (age 14) did I learn of the things that the Nazi's did. I have been called a Nazi and been subject to loads of anti-german "jokes". It is not fair, not called for and definately not who I am.

To be honest I feel as if the germans are recieving a very poor publicity still for events 60 years ago. They are not all evil Jew hating murderous beings. If anything they are less likely to forgive themselves for letting such atrocities occur in the first place than anyone else.

Hitler was a good political leader and provider for the german people. He promised jobs, money, warmth and the such like and he delivered. Do Bush and Blair deliver on eveything they promise??

The term Holocaust was not created by the Nazi's, as many think. It originates back thousands of years. There was a massive persecution of the Jews in northern England (the first Holocaust) and many occured world wide between then and 1941. It wasn't just the Germans.

There was once a study as to whether obedience to authority in circumstances some of the germans where in was a "defect" in the german DNA or something. The study was carried out in many different locations around the world and there was a trend of 65% obeying completely with very little resistance.

[Whisper]

Why would they think your a nazi because you have blonde hair and blue eyes?

I've seen lots of natural blondes with blue eyes
i've never made that connection
ever

Of course germanys still paying for what it did
That kind of blood will stain germans for generations to come

[Hi i am jon]

no matter how you look at it nazis were just people who were not strong enough to say no hitler, for that many died, if they were to just form a gorilla unit that was actuall soldiors maybe some one could have got hitler, but there is no point on asking what if's.....i say nazi's should have retaliated, maybe get a group of people to rescue what was being held hostage....but any way they COULD have done so much more to stop it so obviously they didnt disaprove of it that much...

[Sapphire]

no matter how you look at it nazis were just people who were not strong enough to say no hitler, for that many died, if they were to just form a gorilla unit that was actuall soldiors maybe some one could have got hitler, but there is no point on asking what if's.....i say nazi's should have retaliated, maybe get a group of people to rescue what was being held hostage....but any way they COULD have done so much more to stop it so obviously they didnt disaprove of it that much...

Re-read this jon, it wasnt that they felt it was the right thing to do. Just that it is part of human nature to follow authority. The subjects in the experiment weren't even threatened by the experimentor and they followed orders. So how can they be expected to stand up when their families lives are at stake?

There was once a study as to whether obedience to authority in circumstances some of the germans where in was a "defect" in the german DNA or something. The study was carried out in many different locations around the world and there was a trend of 65% obeying completely with very little resistance.

[Whisper]

Thats bullshit

it is NOT human nature to herd inocent people into a gas chamber and murder them
not to mention all the rapes
the fact that the average worker at one of those disgusting camps life span was 3 months

no
they did what he said because at the time when they were winning they belived in it
they were all guilty
i dont care what anyone says
there just pissed they lost
there trying to make excuses up to help them sleep at night and so nobody hates them

it aint workin

[Sapphire]

no
they did what he said because at the time when they were winning they belived in it
they were all guilty
i dont care what anyone says
there just pissed they lost
there trying to make excuses up to help them sleep at night and so nobody hates them

it aint workin

If thats true then how come Dr. Milgram could prove that when faced with a situation in which they believed that they were inflicting electric shocks on to another human being, that 100% of the wide sample of people used from many locations around the world were prepared to inflict shocks of 300 volts (enough to kill someone)???

The relation between the authoritarian and the one inflicting the punishment (be it electric shocks or burning) does produce an obedient response.

Look up Milgam's study of obedience to authority 1957.

[Whisper]

I did look it up
you know what I found out
I found out that the experiment took place in 1961
....wow...1961

get sum new fucking material


Oh and the shocks were 450volts
and 54% is the percentage that obeyed
that still leaves 46% that said NO!
In the case of the nazi's that COULD have been a preaty big fuckin resistance

[Hi i am jon]

i wonder when they are going to make a movie about this, i know they made many, but i mean like the movie Raid, (that movie has a sick begging of americans getting burned to death :-/) but if any of you have seen that movie you will know what i mean........i have a question tho....how the fuck did hitler get so many followers? a few years back i did a biogrophy about him but it never said how he got nazis in the first place...i mean "hey who wants to cause a war killing as many people as we can just because they arent like me" doesnt sound like it would work......so some one tell me how the hell he got people to follow him at first because.....they are the worst people in this if not for them hitler would have stayed a loser with a fucked up life.....

[Sapphire]

I did look it up
you know what I found out
I found out that the experiment took place in 1961
....wow...1961

get sum new fucking material


Oh and the shocks were 450volts
and 54% is the percentage that obeyed
that still leaves 46% that said NO!
In the case of the nazi's that COULD have been a preaty big fuckin resistance

They worked up progressively from 15 to 450 volts and 100% of the participants reached 300 volts without resistance.

[Sapphire]

Hitler used the terrible levels of unemployment, hyper inflation and the fall of the wiemar government (coalition democratic government).

These three things meant that ppl looked to extremists for the answer. The nazis and the socialists were the obvious choice. Due to clever propaganda and his "hypnotic" speeches Hitler's popularity grew. He realised what the people wanted so he continued to promote it. He made cars, radios and televisions affordable and used it to increase support.

Organisations like the Hitler Youth also helped build support. The protestant churches were used as propaganda outlets, as were schools.

As the Nazis power rose and Hitler became Chancellor, he was able to manipulate events such as the Reichstag (government building) Fire to eliminate the Socialists from the Reichstag. He then got President Hindenberg to give him total immediate unchallenged power for four years. Obviously he didnt give up these powers after the agreed four years.

[Lost_and_fallen]

To clear the whole Milgram thing up (because I never get to be the informed person in arguments :P ):

He tested a selection of local people around where he lived

All subjects went up to 300 (Which they were told was an intense shock)

65% went up to 450 (which they were told would cause death) and the experiment didn't offer any higher shocks, no one said 'no' after 450 because it wasn't possible for them to go any further.

The experiment has been repeated by different psychologists since and the results have been very similar.

All the subjects were prepared to inflict pain on someone else to some extent simply because a person of authority had instructed them to do so. Whether this was the case in Germany I don't know, but it seems this is a trait of people of many different nationalities.

[Sapphire]

im sure that a study to prove or disprove the rascist "Germans are different" hypothesis would have been conducted in Germany. of all the nationalites tested only the dutch seemed to be less obedient.

The conclusion was that it was the relationship between the person in authority and the one administering the shocks meant obedience was high as a result.

[Dr. Nick Riviera]

I'm German and I think I can dare to say something about that: Most of the members ot the NSDAP weren't real Nazis, that was a Bandwagon effect. Being a member of the NSDAP was an advantage. But this people are also guilty, they did nothing to stop the murder. The German Protestant Chruch split up into German Christs(pro Hitler) and the Confessing Church(contra Hitler), the Catholic Chruch in Germany had a great conflict inside itself.
So most of the Germans knew enough to know that they don't want to know more.

[teencrazykid]

bullshit

If so many germen people utterly disagreed with hittler and what he was doing they should have risen up against him. Not to mention America, Canada, the UK would probably have helped over throw him.

One man cannot "force" an entire country into doing something that they dont want to.

I dont care if they dry cleaned suits or if they herded the jews into the gas chambers they were all as guilty as him.

They had no right to do what they did
I dont feel sorry for any of the nazi's

seconded

Josh said that history has a nasty habit of repeating itself: scary and true