Speed of light?

[iJack]

What do you think would happen if we broke the speed of light?

[Sugaree]

I'm not sure. I think I learned the speed of light this year in science but I can't remember. I believe it travels at only a few feet per minute?

[iJack]

Would it go black, white, ect?

[Antares]

Then we would probably go to different areas of the solar system...but that would be VERY long after us just doing it. In order for us to do that we have to start with smaller particles and then work our way up to larger things.

I believe it travels at only a few feet per minute?

FEW FEET per MIN???

Its about 3x10^8m/s!
Thats about 299,792,458 m/s...thats SUPER FAST!

[Bryan B]

they might use it to explore more the universe

[Sugaree]

I'm not sure. YOu really have to get into Physics for that answer. And the word you are looking for is "White" not "Wight" just saying. No offense.

[Techno Monster]

If we broke the speed of light I think whatever thing we are riding in when we did it would turn black.

[iJack]

I'm not sure. YOu really have to get into Physics for that answer. And the word you are looking for is "White" not "Wight" just saying. No offense.

Nah, its ok, im really tired, and must leave before i get myself banned:sleep:

[Mzor203]

Okay, what would really happen if we broke the speed of light is that the object we were travelling in would expand to have infinite mass, and time for us would begin to go backwards. It's hard to explain, but basically that's the answer.

[iJack]

Okay, what would really happen if we broke the speed of light is that the object we were travelling in would expand to have infinite mass, and time for us would begin to go backwards. It's hard to explain, but basically that's the answer.

And you know this how...

[Mzor203]

You wouldn't believe the amount of books I've read on light, time, Eintstein, etc. That's what I do for fun.

[Antares]

Its true :D

And Matt its not that hard to come up with the number for the speed of light :P

[Mzor203]

186,000 Miles Per Second! I've memorized it.

Oh, and for dem Canadians,

300,000 KM Per Second.

[Antares]

3x10^8 meters per second!

[Oblivion]

Seriously emz? That would be crazy.

The thingy about expanding...

[Sage]

I thought it was impossible to surpass the speed of light. ._.

[Oblivion]

Theoretically

Think of all the things we haven't even discovered yet. They are surely impossible because impossibility is relative to knowing. If you don't know about it, it is impossible

So, the speed of light is NOT impossible, because we know about it.

I bet if you went back in time and asked someone if anyone woud ever land on the moon they would laugh in your face

[0=]

It's really not open for speculation. Einstein already laid it out. Speculation will be open, or rather testing, if we can prove him wrong and exceed it, though.

[Mzor203]

I thought it was impossible to surpass the speed of light. ._.

It is, physically impossible to surpass the speed of light. I can't remember the reasoning off the top of my head, but it's something like at that speed the energy exerted to make you go that fast starts pouring into the mass, so you can never pass it, because any energy you use to try goes to the mass of your vehicle.

These things are tings that really fascinate me. So I study.

[The Batman]

It's because the friction created by trying to attain such a high velocity will literally disintegrate you and the vehicle.

[0=]

It's because the friction created by trying to attain such a high velocity will literally disintegrate you and the vehicle.

There's no friction in a vacuum.

[Mzor203]

There's no friction in a vacuum.

Exactly... No, your vehicle will not desintigrate if it's strong enough, the energy will simply be turned into mass, as in the famous E=mc^2 equation.

[Whisper]

What do you think would happen if we broke the speed of light?
not gonna happen dude

infinite mass
causality
relativity
quantum mechanics

[Antares]

I will ask my Physics Teacher on Tuesday what is the exact reasoning behind it and I will post it. I hope I can remember.

[Whisper]

Crap....your going to make me go into detail aren't you....

Okay first to give you a scope of how pointless traveling at the speed of light would be picture this. Our galaxy is over 100,000 light years across, putting it in the class of the largest spiral galaxies known (although our neighbor galaxy Andromeda is even larger). The sun is about 35,000 light years from the center of the Milky Way and 40 light years above its plane...Got that?..good


Now first the closer you get to the speed of light the greater the mass and density of your ship, aka infinite mass (aka FAT ASS!)
try finding an engine strong enough to push that at those speeds (In all the universe there isn't enough energy to break the light barrier)

Then theres relativity
Time LITERALLY slows down at those speeds, why? Because atomic particles don't decay as quickly at the speed of light

Not to mention
To be perfectly frank
It would be pointless

I could survive a trip to the farthest galaxy and back to Earth. If I left today when I am 20 years old. The trip would only seem to me and my body to be 59 years. So when I got back 15 billion years later I would only think that I had been gone for 59 years and I would be 79 years old. Although nothing would be living on Earth anymore and our sun would be dead....

Anyway you could also have so called generation ships where the people that leave would not be around when they arrived at their destination but rather their decedents on the ship would.

So traveling to neighboring systems and galaxies in the conventional means is pointless
We need to find short cuts
Like punching through our dimension
folding space/time
wormhole
etc....

....contrary to popular belief the shortest distance between two points isn't a straight line

[Uhh.Huhh RAN_DOM]

wow whisper you really know your stuff and what your saying is all right we do need shortcuts and aren't scientists working on that kind stuff toO?

[Whisper]

Ya....don't hold your breath

We haven't even been to the moon in how long?
the international space station still isn't done
and thats a TINY station

If you want to build a ship
One big enough to transport allot of people a large distance
its far easier to treat it like a modular home
construct it in chunks on earth and fire them into space for assembly
that way when it's completed it doesn't have to deal with that whole gravity thing...

Gravity in itself is EXTREMELY weak
a simple tiny magnet can defy the gravitational forces of our entire planet
without any worry what-so-ever
so eventually anti-gravity generators or w/e might exist but for now its hardcore fiction

I just think there are ALLOT of obstacles we have to overcome
and allot of knowledge we are going to have even a slight grasp over before we go tearing off

like what the fuck is dark energy or dark matter? and why is there so much of it?
(our universe is ALLOT heavier that is should be if you only take into account what we can see)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4b/DarkMatterPie.jpg

Personally I think eventually as a species we will be capable of great things
but for now
were young
if the entire span of earths history was condensed into a single year
humanity as a species from the earliest stages showed up on December 31st at 15 minutes before midnight
and all of recorded history has gone by in literally seconds (i can't remember if it was 20 or 30...sorry)


so for now
no
besides
we have enough problems
29,000 children starve to death everyday....
wars everywhere
climate change
etc...

we need to grow up
before we start stomping around space

[Antares]

Wow that was a great post Kodie. I don't even think I need to ask my Phyiscs teacher but I may bring up the discussion. Anyways, I love Physics. Its so fasinating. I think I may take it instead of Chem. ANYWAYS, I don't think that us, or our kids, or our kid's kids will be around to see any of this happen. Because the very exsistance of our species is hanging on a limb because of WAR!, hunger, disease, overpopulation, etc.

So I would not even think about going the speed of light because I know it will be impossible even in the afterlife (if there is one) so yeah. Why dream if we cant and wont be able to do it.

[Underground_Network]

I highly doubt we'll ever break the speed of light, and I think that anyone who tries to send themselves at the speed of light [whether it be by vehicle or whatever] will most likely die... But I really don't know or care...

[The Batman]

There's no friction in a vacuum.
OOH you meant out in space I was thinking in terms of on earth.

[Camazotz]

The Flash runs as fast as the speed of light. Why cant we ask him?...Oh, right.

[Antares]

OOH you meant out in space I was thinking in terms of on earth.

Well it would make more sense in space because:
1. Its virtually frictionless in space
2. An object in motion stays in motion
3. There is kinda no gravity
4. To get started we can slingshot around a planet

There are many possibilities.

[Whisper]

OOH you meant out in space I was thinking in terms of on earth.

Ya god no inefficient and more importantly utterly impossible to travel at that speed period

Scramjets are what will be used in the military and for civilian use here in a few more decades

right now the fastest speed achieved by conventional air breathing manned vehicles is mach 3.4 (blackbird) Apollo rockets reached speeds upwards of mach 30.........I just can't see a huge rocket to get from LA to London being very realistic not to mention you would just be praying for death with those G forces
a scram jet could easily go mach 17
Which means it would be going well over hypersonic speeds (mach 5+)

and 17 a conservative number

for a pure scramjet you need to have reached a minimum speed before it kicks in thats thought to be around mach 5-7. Once you've achieved that speeds of mach 24 have been thought possible (speed of low earth orbit)

So trust me it wouldn't take long to get around earth

[*Dissident*]

interesting, I thought scramjets were mach 3-4. Either way, it takes an axillary launch vehicle to use one effectively.

Either way, going the speed of light is impossible. I used to hate that it was, but it doesnt really matter. You would have to go many, many, MANY times the speed of light to travel through distant space effectively. Wormholes, while still science fiction, are much more realistic and practical. And I agree with Whisper... we have more important things to deal with here on earth before we decide to commit to space travel.

[Mzor203]

interesting, I thought scramjets were mach 3-4. Either way, it takes an axillary launch vehicle to use one effectively.

Either way, going the speed of light is impossible. I used to hate that it was, but it doesnt really matter. You would have to go many, many, MANY times the speed of light to travel through distant space effectively. Wormholes, while still science fiction, are much more realistic and practical. And I agree with Whisper... we have more important things to deal with here on earth before we decide to commit to space travel.

You could argue that space travel could be very essential, as with the way the world is going now, along with the population, another world could be quite useful. At the least focus some efforts on the science of terraforming.

[0=]

No. We have to concentrate on Earth. We won't survive long if we think like that. We're just not going to colonize other planets for a long time. There's too much shit going on here.

[Mzor203]

I'm not saying completely forget about earth, but it's stupid not to plan for the future. Just a small group of scientists researching that area would be perfectly okay. It could solve problems. If we had more space to grow food, and use for other things, it could be helpful to us.

[Kiros]

Honestly, I don't think it would be possible in the normal sense.

When most people think of the speed of light, they think "It's really fast. So if it can go that fast, why wouldn't something be able to go faster?"

The fact of the matter is that light is energy in an incredibly pure form. It has weight, but compared wtih the volume that a beam of light can take up, we might as well say it's weightless. This energy can travel basically the fastest speed possible because of that. No energy, force, or matter that we know of can travel faster than it in a relative direction.

But this does not mean that we cannot reach a destination before light does.

Physicists have been theorizing ways to even create universes based on M Theory. If we will (someday) be able to master techniques like this, folding of space will be no longer be fiction. It's basically like this demonstration:

Take a piece of paper, draw one dot on one far end of it and another dot on the other far end. Connect the two dots with a line. Now imagine the paper representing our space plane. The two dots represent a current destination (A) and a desired destination (B) while the line represents a beam of light traveling from A to B. Let's say that the distance between the two destinations is about 100 light years away. This means that the beam of light would have to travel for 100 years from A to reach B. Now, fold the peice of paper inward so that the two dots connect. This means that A and B are right next to each other. In theory, if we could fold space, we would be able to travel through a portal from A to B within a short distance (even if it's a few thousand miles or kilometers that we would have to travel). This basically shows that it's theoretically possible to travel from A to B much faster than light. The greater the distance, the greater the difference in time.

This way, it's possible to travel faster than light.

[Mzor203]

And just how are we going to fold something like the fabric of space? And how can you fold three dimensions?

[0=]

There are more than three dimensions. There are things that we cannot comprehend.

[Mzor203]

There are more than three dimensions. There are things that we cannot comprehend.

I know that, I'm not dumb. I'm just curious as to how scientists propose folding three dimensions. There is not a flat plane between objects in space. It would be easy enough to fold three dimensions in a fourth dimensional universe, but not so easy in out own.

[0=]

There is a plane. Read up on Einstein and the likes.

[Dante]

the real question is: if a car was traveling at the speed of light, what happens when it turns its headlights on?

[Triple7]

the real question is: if a car was traveling at the speed of light, what happens when it turns its headlights on?

... :headache:

[Mzor203]

There is a plane. Read up on Einstein and the likes.


Yes, I know that Einstein thinks there is a plane which supposedly everything in the universe lies on, but we can travel in three dimension, there is a three dimensional plane. How the hell are you supposed to go about folding a giant, endless, three dimensional vacuum?


the real question is: if a car was traveling at the speed of light, what happens when it turns its headlights on?


Isn't it obvious? The car and the headlights would go the same speed.

[Whisper]

Yes, I know that Einstein thinks there is a plane which supposedly everything in the universe lies on, but we can travel in three dimension, there is a three dimensional plane. How the hell are you supposed to go about folding a giant, endless, three dimensional vacuum?
Simple
Gravity

And you would be folding 4 dimensions not 3
Gravity can very easily warp space/time
Astronauts in orbit experience a faster clock than people on earths surface do because their farther away from the gravitational source.
Our planet warps space/time
engineers had to take that into account for satellites or things like GPS's would NOT work

Space is NOT flat
theres a spacial fabric yes
but it folds in on itself
its not a straight line
so with a strong enough gravitational force you could fold space and bring the two points closer


Another way to travel would allow for speeds greater than the speed of light
while not actually moving at all...
so you wouldn't be violating any laws of relativity
Instead of moving the ship with huge engines
you contract the space in front of the ship and expand the space behind the ship
Think of it like riding a wave through space
This would theoretically allow you to travel faster than light without moving at all....
And that would be allot easier to do than most people think (way the fuck beyond us now)


Right now the voyager probes are the fastest man made objects EVER at a lil over 10 miles a second
In space light travels at 299,792,458 MILES per second....so umm tiiiiiiny gap there
at that speed you could go from earth to the moon in a second and a half

But even at those speeds scientists estimate the distance to the nearest star Alpha Centauri would take 4 light years
a HABITABLE system is a minimum of 45 light years
and thats a very optimistic number

So to be perfectly frank light speed isn't good enough
for getting around a solar system it would be nice

but for anything of any real distance...not so much




And Jason
If my car was going faster than light I wouldn't want headlights or a glass windshield period
I want sensors

[The Batman]

But wait it is possible for something to travel faster than the speed of light.
- Scientists have apparently broken the universe's speed limit. For generations, physicists believed there is nothing faster than light moving through a vacuum -- a speed of 186,000 miles per second.
But in an experiment in Princeton, New Jersey, physicists sent a pulse of laser light through cesium vapor so quickly that it left the chamber before it had even finished entering.
The pulse traveled 310 times the distance it would have covered if the chamber had contained a vacuum.
Researchers say it is the most convincing demonstration yet that the speed of light -- supposedly an ironclad rule of nature -- can be pushed beyond known boundaries, at least under certain laboratory circumstances.

Taken from http://archives.cnn.com/2000/TECH/space/07/20/speed.of.light.ap/

[Mzor203]

But wait it is possible for something to travel faster than the speed of light.

Taken from http://archives.cnn.com/2000/TECH/space/07/20/speed.of.light.ap/

It exited so fast that it exited before it finished entering? That's gotta be pretty fast.


I get that space isn't flat, Kodie, I was expressing that I didn't get how it could be when we move in 3 - or 4 - dimensions.

And I know about how gravity warps time and space. What I'm just not getting is that Einsten proposed that all objects in space lie on a fabric, and the greater the mass and the heavier they are, the further down into the fabric they sink, creating a bowl shape in the fabric around them, thus creating gravity where an object will circle around it. Hard to explain, but it's weird to me that the fabric can be being stretched in a three dimensional way so that everything, whether above or below it, to one side or another, is affected. And how are we supposed to concentrate gravity on a specific two points of the fabric to pull those points together? And how will that affect the rest of space, and the planets around that area?

[iJack]

the real question is: if a car was traveling at the speed of light, what happens when it turns its headlights on?
:eek::ohmy:>_<:eyebrow:

I really dont think anything would happen,
... :headache:
Exactly

[Atonement]

Because the electromagnetic waves and particles in light have no mass, they have no momentum, meaning you can't slow it down. So, if we can make mass move faster than no mass, we would need to have the no mass energy to propel us since it is most powerful... if that makes any sense. So, if we went faster and faster than light, we cnat because since light is the fast, we would need to harness and use light to propel us, but since it is the fastest, we can only go as fast as light allows us.

[The Batman]

What about wormholes?

A wormhole is a tunnel that connects two distant regions of space, creating the

possibility of traveling across the universe in an extremely short amount of time. A

wormhole, also known as the Einstein-Rosen Bridge, or Schwartzschild wormhole,

comes from general relativity using “Schwartzschild geometry” to describe the

behavior of space-time around a black hole. Wormholes are predicted to occur

naturally, but they are extremely unstable and should close before even a few

photons can pass through. There are different theories for how to stabilize wormholes

and use them for travel purposes.

The wormhole theory from Michael Morris and Kip Thorne was first published in 1988, after

Morris did his PhD thesis under Thorne at Caltech. Morris-Thorne wormholes are tunnels that

can be created using planet-size masses and stabilizing electric fields. To keep the wormhole

open, the electric fields must be strong enough to offset the extreme gravitational forces that

at the mouth of the wormhole.

Wormhole Diagram

http://www.usd.edu/phys/courses/phys300/gallery2/dave/dave_files/image004.jpg


There are some theoretical requirements with Morris-Thorne wormholes that need to be figured

out before we can begin galaxy hopping. The first is that the mass-energy requirements are

enormous; this includes the negative energies that will need to be in balance with the

gravitational energies to keep the wormhole stable. Also, the mouth of the wormhole would

have a large tidal force, strong enough that it would probably destroy any traveler that tried to

pass through. (2)

Another wormhole idea comes from Matt Visser. Visser’s wormholes require cutting two similar

holes in space-time and sewing the edges together. It would need some sort of exotic matter

with negative mass to support the wormhole to keep it open. A Visser wormhole, because of

the negative-mass struts would have a total mass that is small and would therefore not have

the same tidal forces that Morris-Thorne wormholes have. (2)

Wormholes could allow future groups of humans to travel across the universe in a short time

without violating special relativity. To an outside observer, it would look like the ship traveled

at speeds many times more than that of light, but within the wormhole, the ship actually

traveled below the speed of light because the distance of travel through the wormhole is far

less than going to the same point through normal space.

With wormholes, the possibility for time travel also exists. If a wormhole was created and one

end of the wormhole accelerated to near light speed for enough time so that, the time dilation

effect put it one year behind the stationary end. Then if it were placed next to the stationary

end, it would create a wormhole that could send light or objects one year into the past or

future. Steven Hawking and other theorists have claimed that this cannot happen because it

would violate the principle of causality. Causality states that a cause must precede its effects

in time sequence in all space-time reference frames. (3) If the cause happened after the

effect, it will violate the causality principle and would destroy the wormhole.

Wormholes and warp drives create unfathomable possibilities for the human race in the future.

It could allow for the discovery of new planets, matter, even life in distant parts of the

universe. Future generations of dreaming children and science fiction writers could realize their

dreams and visions of crisscrossing the universe searching for answers to questions that before

could only be theorized about. For now, the human race is limited to only looking to distant

parts of the universe, but in the future it could be possible to go to all of those places that

exist only in pictures, data records, and the dreams of children.
taken from http://www.usd.edu/phys/courses/phys300/gallery2/dave/dave.htm

[Mzor203]

Isn't it obvious? The car and the headlights would go the same speed.

I stated before. They would both go the same speed. Nothing would happen except the light would seem to stay stationary inside the light bulbs of the headlights.

If you turned to one side, you would be able to see the light travelling through the air beside you. Weird to think about, but if you think about, of course that's what happens. You go as fast as light when going the speed of light.


EDIT: As for wormholes, you have to take into account that there is infinite amounts of mass and gravity inside the center of the wormhole. Once you cross the horizon, you're going to be smaller than an atom within milliseconds.

[iJack]

Because the electromagnetic waves and particles in light have no mass, they have no momentum, meaning you can't slow it down. So, if we can make mass move faster than no mass, we would need to have the no mass energy to propel us since it is most powerful... if that makes any sense. So, if we went faster and faster than light, we cnat because since light is the fast, we would need to harness and use light to propel us, but since it is the fastest, we can only go as fast as light allows us.

...:eyebrow::headache:

I get it, kind of. So light would only be able to propel us to the barrier, not past?

[Atonement]

I would think so. Since light is pure energy and has no mass, it is damn near impossible to harness into a way to propel something... idk. Its confusing.

[Mzor203]

...:eyebrow::headache:

I get it, kind of. So light would only be able to propel us to the barrier, not past?

Except how would light propel something when it has no mass to use for energy to propel us.

No, following the pattern, you'd need to have less than no mass to go faster, which is at the time impossible that we know of.


I would think so. Since light is pure energy and has no mass, it is damn near impossible to harness into a way to propel something... idk. Its confusing.

Not only that, but if we were in a vehicle being propelled by light, our mass would be increased creating less speed and more gravitational pull from other bodies in space. We'd go slower than light speed.

[kolte]

Interesting Business Indeed, Sir . . . The idea of light speed. To answer the original question. No, I personally don't think we can, which means nothing, because maybe, just maybe, its a possibility. My opinion is a mere shadow.

However, there are scientists who have gained quite a deal of knowledge pertaining to light and its travels. I don't recall the details, and I'm not going to look them up (You Can!) but I recall the story going something like this:

The scientists sent a beam of light into a cooled gas chamber containing magnetically trapped sodium atoms chilled within a few millionths of a degree from absolute zero. And amazingly, there beam of light stopped, and reverted into matter. Matter can then be conjoined and the light along with is payload can be sent on its way.

Don't jump up and down yet. This is not the advent of light speed travel. But you can expect much MUCH more powerful computers and an overall boom in technological advancement in communication.

[MoveAlong]

We would be able to travel very fast
may turn into a cascading effect where people start believing that since we could go to different planets, we don't have to worry about destroying this one anymore, and people will probably become more careless with our Earth

But we could also explore our universe more effectively!

[Mzor203]

We would be able to travel very fast
may turn into a cascading effect where people start believing that since we could go to different planets, we don't have to worry about destroying this one anymore, and people will probably become more careless with our Earth

But we could also explore our universe more effectively!

Lol! You've got that right! It would take longer to get to work then to get to Mars for most people if they were travelling at the speed of light! Depends on your commute.

[george]

The thing about traveling at the speed of light is how would you stop? Once you go a certain speed in space, you just keep going at the speed.

Oh, and for what Dante said, maybe the light would like go backwards and go behind you :D

[Mzor203]

The thing about traveling at the speed of light is how would you stop? Once you go a certain speed in space, you just keep going at the speed.

If we knew how to propel ourselves that fast, apply the same amount of force on the opposite side of the vehicle, and voila!

Oh, and for what Dante said, maybe the light would like go backwards and go behind you :D


Nope, you're not going faster than it. It would stay parralel to you or if you turned go ahead of you.

[Kiros]

What about wormholes?

taken from http://www.usd.edu/phys/courses/phys300/gallery2/dave/dave.htm

Basically, my demonstration is a wormhole. But from what I understand, the blackhole-wormhole theory has been tossed away just from the understandings of M Theory. It still is theoretically possible to fold space in such a way, but we're not going to try and fly into a blackhole ;)

[ThatCanadianGuy]

Another way to travel would allow for speeds greater than the speed of light
while not actually moving at all...
so you wouldn't be violating any laws of relativity
Instead of moving the ship with huge engines
you contract the space in front of the ship and expand the space behind the ship
Think of it like riding a wave through space
This would theoretically allow you to travel faster than light without moving at all....
And that would be allot easier to do than most people think

***^^^ That was posted by Whisper (sorry quote buttons being stupid :D)

I know exactly what you're getting at with this bending of space; in fact when the discovery channel did a show on the "science of Star Trek" they theorized that "warp speed" (speeds at multiples of the speed of light, up to 1000x) could be achieved in this fashion.

However, we kinda need to take into consideration the consequences this might have. Warping space around a ship, or effectively "tearing" a hole in the fabric of spacetime to get from point A to point B instantly (which effectively "cheats" lightspeed) HAS to have some negative consequences right?

I don't want to try and cheat the speed of light if the hole I create in spacetime rips apart the solar system in a gravitational tidal wave :D

[Whisper]

by warping spacetime like the example you took there
your not really tearing any holes
you're just warping spacetime
planets, stars, etc... all do it

[george]

For anyone that has watched or still watched Futurama, in one episode, I remember the professor saying that his ship simply moves space itself, causing them to go faster than the speed of light or something :D Do you think thats possible?

[Mzor203]

For anyone that has watched or still watched Futurama, in one episode, I remember the professor saying that his ship simply moves space itself, causing them to go faster than the speed of light or something :D Do you think thats possible?

That's what we've been talking about basically, if you look over all the replies.

[jrob11]

Personally I think if we broke the speed of light our body woudn't be able to take it and they "break apart", i don't any other way to say it.