The second Great depression

[GRB123]

Is america heading toywards a depression? Our fuel costs are going up and up and up. We depend on foreing products. Our monetary trade value is falling.


so speak now and say what you think.

[redcar]

Not a second great depression. You see economies are like cycles, it goes up then goes down and then back up again. What is happening is there is a shift in variables. For example property prices are dropping, many multi nationals are taking their manufacturing and other jobs to Asia.

So this effects the economy, but economies are great in that they stabilise themselves. In a few years the US economy will sort itself out and things should get better.

[kolte]

I wouldn't be so sure Alex. *chants revolution*

[Camazotz]

Although everything youve said is true, I dont beleive we're headed to another deppression. Economies have a way of balancing out, which should happen within a few years.

[kolte]

Ditto >>

What goes up must come down.

All Good things come to an end

The United States won't last forever. Eventually it will implode. *revolution*

.................*does kart-wheels*........I'm bored. Isn't there already a debate simi like this?

[redcar]

The US won't implode but evolution will slowly change it. You won't notice it because todays environment won't allow it. But in 50 years time it will be a different place.

[Zephyr]

No depression.
As stated before,
We're just in one of the low parts of the economic cycle.

[GRB123]

i hate to say it but the western age has come to an end the rise of the east has begun

[Underground_Network]

I'd say we're on the verge of something much worse than a depression...

[redcar]

The Western Age has not come to an end. The East have some powerful countries but in the grand scale of it all, it still has many many poor countries. The West is currently protecting itself from the East. Look at the growth of institutions like the EU. Safety in numbers. These institutions protect the West.

[Antares]

Alex, I love how you are so positive.

I really do not think we are in a depression...

yet.

Right now we are in a recession. In about 2 years then we will begin our depression. That will last for about...10 years...until the US Government pumps out more money to its people putting itself another 9 trillion dollars in debt. Then the world will be okay. Right now I am focusing on this bad part and I am not even really thinking about the fact that it will get better because to be honest we don't even know if it will. We can only hope.

I really do not know what I should be doing as soon as I graduate but I will try to move to France or Germany and become rich and then after move back to the US and say, "Hey, I'm back. I hope you had fun without me :P" and then they will call me a coward and I will laugh and mock them and say..."Well I never had to live in a stupid country who can't use common sense to make things better" :rolleyes:

[GRB123]

i have the same plan basicaly

[Antares]

Yay!
Okay where do you want to move to?
Canada or Europe. I could chose either one. Canada is closer but Europe is pretty dang awesome...lol

[GRB123]

When the time comes i will move the current world leader, so most likely china or japan

[Underground_Network]

When the time comes, I'm moving to Antarctica and kickin' it with the penguins! [don't ask me what I imply by "kickin' it" there, because I have no clue, I just felt like saying that :P]

[GRB123]

we are talking about a depression nor nuclear war

[redcar]

Some advice. If you have a grand parent or even parent who is entitled to a passport from an EU country, get it. It is probably the most valuable item in terms of work. If you have a passport from any EU country you basically have a passport to 27 different countries. The EU allows citizens to work anywhere with no restrictions, so it is very handy.

[Underground_Network]

we are talking about a depression nor nuclear war

Exactly, once the depression hits, I'll go to a place where you don't need any money, ANTARCTICA! :D

[Techno Monster]

What will you eat in Antarctica??? Ice? lol

As of now we are in a ression and things should go back to normal in several years, and there is also a war going on, and prices go up during war time.

So until then everybody should buy horses to avoid paying for gas, because horses fertilize, and they are a renewable resource. :D

[0=]

We haven't felt a single expense, besides American deaths, from the war yet, so it won't be better for a while.

[Whisper]

Is america heading toywards a depression? Our fuel costs are going up and up and up. We depend on foreing products. Our monetary trade value is falling.


so speak now and say what you think.

You're gas prices are insanely cheap
Theres allot more going on in your economy than gas prices and foreign imports
And every modern country in some way or another depends on foreign imports
Its a global economy now, fact of modern life

[GRB123]

Insanely cheap!?

They are almost four dollars a gallon and will go up more becuase the us dollar is weakening

[Underground_Network]

^^ Yes, but in the U.S. gas IS extremely cheap compared to most [if not all] of Europe.

[Whisper]

Don't bold like that it's annoying

compared to Canada where a substantial amount of it comes from
compared to all of Europe and many other areas
it IS insanely cheap, Americans are spoiled when it comes to prices for allot of things like oil, gas, consumer products, etc... Most just don't pay attention to the international market so they don't realize it
4 dollars a gallon is nothing


and as far as another depression the whole economy collapsing
ya umm
no

Your housing markets crashed due to the sub-prime morgages and insane intrest on credit cards
millions of Americans living beyond there means and its catching up to them

This happens in some form or another every decade er so
in the 90's it was the internet

And now allot of countries are starting to "decouple" from the American economy
It's still the largest in the world....for now
so it will eventually have an effect elsewhere
but as it stands even Canada is doing great and the US and Canada have the largest trading relationship on the planet
yet at the end of the last budget every single province had a surplus as well as the federal (were the only G8 that has zero debt, its been that way for years upon years)
it will eventually spill over the lumber and auto industry is already suffering which is pulling Ontario and Quebec down BC is still hanging strong the rest is still booming
As far as I know (i could be wrong) the UK, France, Japan, South Korea, Australia, etc.. Are holding strong it hasn't effect them really
China and India are BOOMING


The Canadian dollar has been at par with the US for a year now (because ours is getting stronger and your's is weaker)
etc..

This is nowhere near a great depression

[Triple7]

It's not a depression, but things aren't looking good either. The free ride's over (I remember when gas used to be $0.98/gallon). The credit card industry needs some restrictions, especially on the "fees" and interest rates they charge. You know... get their hands out of people's back pockets. Big oil companies have been posting record profits in the billions, so not everyone's suffering... Oil fuels everything (pun intended) when it powers our cars and planes and trucks to ship things around the world.

At times, the loonie has been worth more than the US dollar. Right now, looking at the exchange rate, $1 CAD gets you $1.02 USD.

[GRB123]

What i am saying here is the american econemy is taking a dive that might not be able to be brought back. We have to make our dollar worth more so we mantain overseas trade.

[kolte]

A Crazy Notion; one that stings the nostrils. Pungent.


Perhaps I'm cynical when it comes to the ways of the world; perhaps that is an understatement, but I think things are holding well despite being precariously balanced. Not that the balance will hold forever, as I spy with my little eye an ever looming disaster afoot.

Its obvious that things are amiss. And though gas prices are almost half of the average in developed countries (about 3.80 at my neighborhoods general fuel pump) the strain is ominous. Food prices are jumping as a result of this increase in energy cost. Not a good symptom in a society whose eating habits are already pitiful. Perhaps plentiful in relation to say Africa and Asia, but lacking in a nutritional sense.

I suppose I can't say there is going to be a depression because of what is happening now, although I think its inevitable capitalism will fail. Thats another story . . . partly

[Mannequin]

ok, i havent read much shit thats been posted thus far and quite frankly i dont care!
kolte...you seem like a freak extremeist and i don't quite understand your logic.

the USA's debt is in the trillions right now. That sounds quite horrible (understatement), but really that money is just numbers. that money doesnt actually exist. tons of countries owe us money and we owe tons of countries money. countries just use the debt other countries have on one another to help with war efforts...kinda like the one we are in now...except we arent getting help.

but yeah, idk why i even try. well live. we need better guidance. that being said, staying in war isnt all george dubya's fault! he cant exactly pull us out now...and he shouldnt pull us out now there will be mass brawl between the sunni and shiites if we do leave now.

[kolte]

....................your the freak o:

I don't think anything I said was wrong. If its the notion that I blame everything on capitalism that you find confusing, I don't blame you. But generally everything happening in the world today, good and bad is the fault of capitalism. Thats like saying, the reason the body is acting up is because of the diet. It may be a heart condition, but it all leads back to what you eat.

You seem quite frustrated that a debate is happening at all. If you "frankly don't care" about the "shit thats been posted thus far" then why post at all? I don't quite understand your logic sir.

.........so lay off

[GRB123]

this is a good thread please do not go off topic and say things that will get it locked

[Mannequin]

....................your the freak o:

I don't think anything I said was wrong. If its the notion that I blame everything on capitalism that you find confusing, I don't blame you. But generally everything happening in the world today, good and bad is the fault of capitalism. Thats like saying, the reason the body is acting up is because of the diet. It may be a heart condition, but it all leads back to what you eat.

Perhaps capitalism does play a role in a slight downfall, but for the USA to "implode and be destructed" because of it is a bit much. You are far too negative and that you dont see there are benefits to capitalism as well. the economy is being stimulated from several pinpoints and each pin point help support the empire that is the USA.


You seem quite frustrated that a debate is happening at all. If you "frankly don't care" about the "shit thats been posted thus far" then why post at all? I don't quite understand your logic sir.

.........so lay off

no, not frustrated. im just naturally stubborn and most likely possess a bit of an ego at times. and i post because i can...and for this "shit" (so to speak) talk of another great depression. please. i don't really feel the need to tell you how capitalism helped us tremendously...im pretty sure you're a smart guy..you can go to google!

[thesphinx]

*sigh* if only the nations could work together better...

[cuckoo_clock]

What goes up must come down.

All Good things come to an end

The United States won't last forever. Eventually it will implode. *revolution*


Come on, do us all a favour! ;)

[*Dissident*]

What we fail to realize, is that as westerners (people of westernized nations) we will never, ever, in no circumstance know real poverty. Go to africa for god's sake. just look around at the lack of money and the lack of food and shelter and the basic necessities of life. So, you can't afford gas, or an ipod, or new shoes, or name brand snacks or eating out twice a week. They don't have water. they are actually DYING of hunger. We wont ever know real poverty.

[Whisper]

What we fail to realize, is that as westerners (people of westernized nations) we will never, ever, in no circumstance know real poverty. Go to africa for god's sake. just look around at the lack of money and the lack of food and shelter and the basic necessities of life. So, you can't afford gas, or an ipod, or new shoes, or name brand snacks or eating out twice a week. They don't have water. they are actually DYING of hunger. We wont ever know real poverty.

Your right and you know what I want the west to stay strong and stay on top
because if we don't then we can't help Africa
as it stands the west sends tens of billions in aid to 3rd world countries
if were having trouble you think we'll keep sending them free food, free medical supplies, keep building schools, etc...
nope

so those ipods, running shoes, etc... help keep the engine that is our free trade economy running, which allows us the flexibility and freedom to help those less fortunate

[GRB123]

Africa is the worlds mother load of diamonds. We have been getting diamonds there for centuries. I say we get the U.N. off their buts and make them get the huge western mining companies out of there and give them back the land. If we do that then their economy will stabalize and the government will have more money to aid the people and to import greatly neede supplies to the countries. all becuase they can export and trade the diamonds. that is the solution to that.

But then again that might be a bad thing becuase the stabalized economy will create more jobs eventualy and then more factories for mass production then they become so rich that the american economy falls in a bigger whole becuase not only do we have to deal with the rising asian countries but we have to deal with the african countries.

then, like history has proven in the past, the african countries will be at war with one another so one country can take over another country and their diamond mines and the countrys will be so used up by the war they will end up just like if not worse that currently

[ShatteredWings]

i don't feel like mutliquoting

Ditto to everything alex and kodie have said

[*Dissident*]

And our gas prices are so low because we only have an 18 cent tax, as opposed to canada and the EU, who put heavy taxes on their gas (a good thing, it makes you ride a bike). Also, the united states actually supplies a large portion of its own gas, but only about a third or so, which does reduce the price.

[Whisper]

And our gas prices are so low because we only have an 18 cent tax, as opposed to canada and the EU, who put heavy taxes on their gas (a good thing, it makes you ride a bike). Also, the united states actually supplies a large portion of its own gas, but only about a third or so, which does reduce the price.

Oh so because the increase is caused by taxes that makes it so much easier for the average family to financially afford?
Americans have the cheapest gas out of all of us and your crying like little toddlers
Oh ya northern Alberta...I'll ride a bike everywhere riiiiiiiite

Canada is an energy superpower you get ALLOT of water, raw power, softwood lumber, gas, oil, etc... from us
Canada can declare a state of national emergency for our oil and we HAVE to keep the export levels up heading out to the states
so if were low on oil then we don't get any it just goes to you
...when its ours to begin with

I fucking loath NAFTA
that was the most pathetic retarded piece of shit the liberals have ever done to Canada
and now hillary and obama are going on and on about how NAFTA isn't good enough how Americans aren't getting "there fair share"
Obama shut up as soon as everyone found out he was lying through hsi teeth
and Hillary shut the hell up when Harper stated that were now an energy super power and Americans number one source or raw recourses and if she wanted to open NAFTA thats fine but Canada would be demanding allot more

[serial-thrilla]

i definatly agree with that, NAFTA is horse shit. Im not quite sure why the United States think their entitled to so much of our resources.

[GRB123]

its not the people most people dont even relize we get resources from you guys, it is the government leaders thet demand so many resources.

[george]

Here's something that goes with this. Watch the video -
http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/player/popup/?cl=8258322

[Mirataku]

The only thing we have to fear is fear itself

[Whisper]

The only thing we have to fear is fear itself

This isn't about fear
its politics

[Ryandel]

It's how economy works.

[Oblivion]

To the OP, not sure fi this has been said because im too lazy to read the posts... ;)

I think its theoretically impossible to go into another depression as big as the great depression, because the stock market has developed into a better market that is more stable and prevent crashes, and banks have things that protect themselves from total economic crash.

[Triple7]

banks have things that protect themselves from total economic crash.

On the rare occasion, banks go out of business. Sometimes, they're saved by being acquired by another bank. The customers at banks and credit unions have protection in case their institution goes belly up. Up to a certain amount, the FDIC insures deposits at banks, and the NCUA insures deposits at most credit unions. Some CUs have private insurance.

[redcar]

I think its theoretically impossible to go into another depression as big as the great depression, because the stock market has developed into a better market that is more stable and prevent crashes...
Thats wrong. The market isn't better, its just different. It's just in a different form, different comodities and what not and is far from stable.
We saw a few years ago the DotCom crash.
9/11 caused major problems in the airline industry.
The Iraq War saw massive increases in the Oil Industry.

There are many external factors which effect markets and many of these are unpredictable and their effects are just as unpredictable.

All we need is a crisis large enough, one that would effect many many industries to cause a depression. 9/11 would be a small scale type of event. The attack caused people to stop using airlines, which caused that market to go into disaster mode, this in in turn effected tourism in many countries, which meant less money at local levels, which means local shops close, which means less employment, which means a greater strain on governments to support these unemployed, which means increase in taxes, which means less disposable income...etc etc etc in a continuing downward spiral.

So depression will come again. The one thing I have learned about economics, it's all a cycle.

[Triple7]

Thats wrong. The market isn't better, its just different. It's just in a different form, different comodities and what not and is far from stable.
We saw a few years ago the DotCom crash.
9/11 caused major problems in the airline industry.
The Iraq War saw massive increases in the Oil Industry.

There are many external factors which effect markets and many of these are unpredictable and their effects are just as unpredictable.

All we need is a crisis large enough, one that would effect many many industries to cause a depression. 9/11 would be a small scale type of event. The attack caused people to stop using airlines, which caused that market to go into disaster mode, this in in turn effected tourism in many countries, which meant less money at local levels, which means local shops close, which means less employment, which means a greater strain on governments to support these unemployed, which means increase in taxes, which means less disposable income...etc etc etc in a continuing downward spiral.

So depression will come again. The one thing I have learned about economics, it's all a cycle.

Right.

The FAA shut down the US airspace after 9/11, so that wasn't good for business/travel either.

The high gas prices are heavily affecting airlines, showing how the oil industry is affecting the airline/travel industries. Some have stopped operations, and the ones still flying are struggling to break even. American Airlines started charging coach passengers $15 to check the first piece of luggage, and they're also cutting back on the number of flights and retiring older, less-efficient MD-80s. US Airways stopped serving complimentary drinks.

High oil prices are also affecting the automotive industry. Hybrid vehicles are in higher demand, resulting in waiting lists. More SUVs are being traded in to dealers, who then have trouble getting them out. Ford is delaying the introduction of its F-150 pickup truck.

From watching CNN this morning, I learned that Saudi Arabia will soon increase its oil output to 9.7 million barrels per day, the highest level since 1981. It's a short-term bandage, but it won't fix anyone's high oil prices nor help avoid a depression.

[Whisper]

The FAA shut down the US airspace after 9/11, so that wasn't good for business/travel either.

True...But it worked wonders for Atlantic Canadian tourism

http://www.simaddons.com/pics_airport/911_yr.jpg


Easter Canada has been hit hard mainly Ontario and Quebec with the Auto industry
But Western Canada BC, Alberta and now Saskatchewan's economies are growing steadily and strong
Northern Canada is starting to pick up with the diamonds in the NWT
and Atlantic Canada is beginning to pick up both from there own oil with Nova Scotia and backlash from Alberta with Newfoundland