Freedom? Nice try.

[Judean Zealot]

It seems that here in RotW, the most valued ideal is that of 'freedom'. Everybody is talking about freedom, from the leftist to the constitutional conservative to the libertarian. Freedom from government surveillance, freedom from government regulation, freedom of expression, freedom of religion, all these and more are sacred ideals. Some here even go so far as to say freedom from taxation is a legitimate demand. One would think that such lofty minded idealists would be the freest people in the world, and would go through any difficulty to preserve that sacred freedom. Yet if you look around, all of these proud bearers of 'freedom' are in reality helpless and willing slaves to the cruelest taskmaster of all.

He rests neither day or night, and constantly forces a person to labor for him.
As soon as a person finishes doing his assigned task he is not given a well deserved rest, but is given even harder and more strenuous goals to reach.
If a person refuses to serve this master, he is inflicted with intense agony, with psychological torture, and with sleepless nights.
This master's work frequently entails friction with one's family and friends in order to fulfill his ever increasing quota. As if on whim, he shatters families and betrays friends.
This master forces people to do things that they know are harmful for their health. This master induces his slaves to lug around with them an omnipresent load, which makes breathing and walking difficult, and eventually wears the heart out.
The ultimate payment this master gives is the complete breakdown of the body and death.

You are all acquainted with this slavedriver. His name is Desire. Nobody can possibly be called free when they're in his grasp.

[Miserabilia]

damn son.

*deeper insight aquired*

edit; it's true though. Pretty philisophical but I see what you're getting at :yes:

[dxcxdzv]

Dude you should write a book.
So I can know your thoughts and throw them in the bin.

That was a nice text. 'Always like read some good english. At least I think it is.

[Judean Zealot]

Dude you should write a book.
So I can know your thoughts and throw them in the bin.

Well, now I know who to go to for a kind word whenever I'm down. :)

[Porpoise101]

If you reach Nirvana and you are Buddhist you should be able to remove desire and want. That is a little extreme to me but I believe it can be negotiated with and mitigated through good actions and the correct thought processes.

[Judean Zealot]

If you reach Nirvana and you are Buddhist you should be able to remove desire and want. That is a little extreme to me but I believe it can be negotiated with and mitigated through good actions and the correct thought processes.

So I am aware. I don't think, however, that desire should be removed. I think it should be firmly regulated by the intellect.

Y'know, it's a lot prettier when the man rides the horse than when the horse rides the man.

[phuckphace]

I've got nothing to add, but upvoted hard.

[sqishy]

Like it

[Sir Suomi]

You act like we don't already realize this. If anything, our philosophy advocates for the right to pursue your desires, as long as your pursuits do not interfere with the pursuits of others to fulfill their desires. Desire doesn't have to be a negative thing. In fact, in most cases, it can be a positive thing in someone's life.

But, I will give credit, your post was well written out.

[Judean Zealot]

You act like we don't already realize this. If anything, our philosophy advocates for the right to pursue your desires, as long as your pursuits do not interfere with the pursuits of others to fulfill their desires. Desire doesn't have to be a negative thing. In fact, in most cases, it can be a positive thing in someone's life.

But, I will give credit, your post was well written out.

I don't know if you've realized, but I don't like that western philosophy. As a matter of fact, that distaste is what led me to write that.

[Stronk Serb]

Very true, I've been a good Goy and liked that :D

[Vlerchan]

So I am aware. I don't think, however, that desire should be removed. I think it should be firmly regulated by the intellect.

The problem is that this requires [I'm quite sure - from deduction] that we all make the Stoicist [?] presumption that an objective reason exists and we can use this to derive proper action [natural laws and duties]. Thus we separate our base hedonistic desires from proper mediated desire. But this leads into the issue of determining what reason is.

I personally have no idea. How do you judge?

[Judean Zealot]

The problem is that this requires [I'm quite sure - from deduction] that we all make the Stoicist [?] presumption that an objective reason exists and we can use this to derive proper action [natural laws and duties]. Thus we separate our base hedonistic desires from proper mediated desire. But this leads into the issue of determining what reason is.

I personally have no idea. How do you judge?

While I myself do make that presumption, I don't think it necessary for my point as it stands.

Presuming that our bodies and minds can find themselves in better or worse conditions, let's define 'goodness' as that which is in sum beneficial to us and 'badness' as that which is in sum detrimental to us.

Our reason, even if we view it through the most mechanistic lens possible, is capable of informing us via accumulated sensory and/or empirical data that certain behaviors are detrimental to us, and that other behaviors that are not inherently detrimental may be so in specific scenarios (example: sex is not detrimental. Unprotected sex with this random girl is). Yet people don't even consider this, generally speaking.

Granted, this thread has far more significance to an absolutist, but it remains quite applicable to the relativist as well.

In addition, I mentioned in the beginning of my post how seriously many posters here take their 'freedom'. That type of worldview hardly computes with relativism (indeed, the relativist ought to have no allegiance to any ideal as such). I rarely inject empty rhetoric into my posts, although I admit my OP had small dosages of it. Nonetheless, I am specifically targeting those who consider certain ideas to be sacrosanct.

I'd be willing to discuss my own approach in it's fullness, but I just want to state first that my post is not contingent on anything (besides for a rejection of extreme skepticism).

[Vlerchan]

Our reason, even if we view it through the most mechanistic lens possible, is capable of informing us via accumulated sensory and/or empirical data that certain behaviors are detrimental to us, and that other behaviors that are not inherently detrimental may be so in specific scenarios (example: sex is not detrimental. Unprotected sex with this random girl is). Yet people don't even consider this, generally speaking.
Except in order to make distinctions in this regards we have to presume a standardised framework of reference. Let's consider that unprotected sex with strangers is 'bad'. For one this involves presuming both a standardised time-preference and a standardised risk tolerance. That's just on first considerations. The issue is that the extent to which framework for judgement is individualised makes inferring generalised treatises impossible - or at least incoherent.

I'm going to relate this back to the opening post now. It's worth considering that our desires are inculpated into us through socialisation and genetics - the combination of urge and framework. In such a case man exists as little more than a host of conflicting desires. It's not the case as far as can be ascertained that man can abstract these desires from himself and run them through the sieve of reason. Our desires - as far as can be determined - are an extension of man: and not something that exist abstract from him:

Not something that can - as such - be seen to enslave him.

In addition, I mentioned in the beginning of my post how seriously many posters here take their 'freedom'. That type of worldview hardly computes with relativism (indeed, the relativist ought to have no allegiance to any ideal as such).
I agree here. The framework the topic is to be analysed through in intrinsically absolutist.

Though I find that postmodern ethicists tend to reduce the world to some soft solipsism where feelings and so on can't be valued outside an individual level. In that case one's own freedom becomes of prime concern because in relation to the individual one's own opinion is the only thing of consequence. In short: freedom becomes the last value standing.

I'd be willing to discuss my own approach in it's fullness, but I just want to state first that my post is not contingent on anything (besides for a rejection of extreme skepticism).
I think if we manage to calm it down to a smaller number of talking points - I feel like I've provided a number there - then we can jump right into your own approach. If that's Ok.

[tonymontana99]

We will never be free as long as our life still dictated by the monetary jew.

[Porpoise101]

We will never be free as long as our life still dictated by the monetary jew.
Why are you such a http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/09/19/77044f45531f07c90eb5f60db1fa2c07.jpg ?
It's like you take up every conspiracy theory but still preach rationalism and science. Why can't we just let our destiny be dictated by uncontrollable forces be it God, RNG, or the weather? Why is that so difficult for humans to come to terms with?

[phuckphace]

Why are you such a image (http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/09/19/77044f45531f07c90eb5f60db1fa2c07.jpg) ?
It's like you take up every conspiracy theory but still preach rationalism and science. Why can't we just let our destiny be dictated by uncontrollable forces be it God, RNG, or the weather? Why is that so difficult for humans to come to terms with?

there's a certain subset of fascists, including our friend here, who see the Jew villain as the fly in the ointment that holds us back from the Rapture-style capitalism they're so enamored by. as it turns out, unfettered capitalism will wreck your nation regardless of whether it's comprised solely of Übermenschen or die Juden. a quick glance at history reveals an era where the WASP bourgeoisie gleefully and unapologetically tread over the white working class for their cash (Andrew Carnegie et al) long before the first Jew showed up at Ellis Island. tl;dr capitalism run by white people is still capitalism (it still sucks).

[tonymontana99]

there's a certain subset of fascists, including our friend here, who see the Jew villain as the fly in the ointment that holds us back from the Rapture-style capitalism they're so enamored by. as it turns out, unfettered capitalism will wreck your nation regardless of whether it's comprised solely of Übermenschen or die Juden. a quick glance at history reveals an era where the WASP bourgeoisie gleefully and unapologetically tread over the white working class for their cash (Andrew Carnegie et al) long before the first Jew showed up at Ellis Island. tl;dr capitalism run by white people is still capitalism (it still sucks).

Why are you such a image (http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/09/19/77044f45531f07c90eb5f60db1fa2c07.jpg) ?
It's like you take up every conspiracy theory but still preach rationalism and science. Why can't we just let our destiny be dictated by uncontrollable forces be it God, RNG, or the weather? Why is that so difficult for humans to come to terms with?

Guys, guys, guys... Half the things I say are satire. I don't think the jews are behind everything bad with the world. It's a clusterfuck and I'm just making fun of it.

[StoppingTime]

Guys, guys, guys... Half the things I say are satire. I don't think the jews are behind everything bad with the world. It's a clusterfuck and I'm just making fun of it.

Then you may want to make it more clear as to what's satirical and what isn't, because I'm fairly certain most people reading your posts hadn't realized that...

[tonymontana99]

Then you may want to make it more clear as to what's satirical and what isn't, because I'm fairly certain most people reading your posts hadn't realized that...

Give me some examples of what I said that may have been misleading and I'll clarify it for you.

[Stronk Serb]

Democracy stops to make sense when politicians make serious dough and there are too many people for it to function directly in a sound period of time. Also freedom is overrated. We are all slaves to societies we live in.