15-yr-old Danish girl & Muslim boyfriend stab her mom to death

[tonymontana99]

WHAT KIND OF DENMARK DO YOU WANT, FAM?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3235062/Blonde-Danish-teenager-15-murdered-mother-kitchen-knife-watching-ISIS-videos-beheading-British-hostages-online.html

"Blonde Danish teenager, 15, murdered her mother with a kitchen knife after watching ISIS videos of the beheading of British hostages online"

Lisa Borch became obsessed with Islam after going out with older Muslims
Spent hours on YouTube watching the savage decapitations of David Haines and Alan Henning with 29-year-old boyfriend Bakhtiar Mohammed Abdulla
Pair hatched a plan to brutally kill Tina Römer Holtegaard at her Kvissel home
They stabbed her at least 20 times, with Borch casually waiting for the police

"It's a religion of peace!," they said. "We're not terrorists!," they said.

The joys of multiculturalism and Islam :)

Europe's dun goof'd. Consequences will never be the same...

CRASHING THIS CONTINENT... WITH NO SURVIVORS!

[USMC276]

it's what happens when you let a certain group of people obsessed with a crazy religion, in your country

[dxcxdzv]

Let's go in a crusade against Islam like we used to do during the Middle-Age.
The old good time buddies, die at forty and don't be naughty.

[Vlerchan]

Have I mentioned that all Muslims are evil recently?

I feel like I haven't been doing that enough.

[mattsmith48]

WHAT KIND OF DENMARK DO YOU WANT, FAM?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3235062/Blonde-Danish-teenager-15-murdered-mother-kitchen-knife-watching-ISIS-videos-beheading-British-hostages-online.html

"Blonde Danish teenager, 15, murdered her mother with a kitchen knife after watching ISIS videos of the beheading of British hostages online"



"It's a religion of peace!," they said. "We're not terrorists!," they said.

The joys of multiculturalism and Islam :)

Europe's dun goof'd. Consequences will never be the same...

CRASHING THIS CONTINENT... WITH NO SURVIVORS!

1. Those 2 people are not terrorists they are murderers.
2. No religion is a religion of peace. Its not because Jews dont stone people to death for not being a virgin or Christians dont kill people for working on Sunday anymore they are religion of peace

[Judean Zealot]

Did any of you think about the creepiness of a 15 year old girl going out with a 29 year old guy?

Like, don't you think there was something not right with her even before she got radicalized?

[mattsmith48]

Did any of you think about the creepiness of a 15 year old girl going out with a 29 year old guy?

Like, don't you think there was something not right with her even before she got radicalized?

I agree its wrong but the guy is as responsible as the girl.

[dxcxdzv]

Did any of you think about the creepiness of a 15 year old girl going out with a 29 year old guy?

Like, don't you think there was something not right with her even before she got radicalized?
Less than murdering her own mother.

Everybody's got something not right.

[mattsmith48]

it's what happens when you let a certain group of people obsessed with a crazy religion, in your country

The problem is not the person the problem is the crazy religion that person believe in.

[Judean Zealot]

Reise
mattsmith48

I think the two of you misunderstood my point. All I'm saying is that the radicalization of an already 'off' kid is hardly indicative of danger of radicalization to normal people.

I agree that modern Islam has a tendency to radicalize, on account of geopolitical and economic realities, but let's just keep this event in perspective.

[USMC276]

The problem is not the person the problem is the crazy religion that person believe in.

thank you. what i'm trying to say

[tonymontana99]

1. Those 2 people are not terrorists they are murderers.
2. No religion is a religion of peace. Its not because Jews dont stone people to death for not being a virgin or Christians dont kill people for working on Sunday anymore they are religion of peace

1. >Implying this guy wouldn't shoot up a school or a public place if he had the chance.

2. No one mentioned the other religions.

Stop shilling for these people before it's too late.

Watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=31&v=UkIocH91j0w

Wake up!

[Judean Zealot]

The problem is not the person the problem is the crazy religion that person believe in.

Do you even understand the implications of the shit you post here?

[Left Now]

I remember 3 years ago when Harry Smith first began cussing at a CERTAIN religion here,but after awhile he changed his attitude considerably.

And just about 2 years ago one of our other dear friends began this attitude in a hot dose,and I rained him with more than I think 12 pages of evidences that he is not acting fairly.Don't think you want this happen here right?Because I am more than happy to repeat that here too.

I don't know if Typhlosion still admits what I did or not,but you can ask him how I did it;or even go to see for yourselves.

[Porpoise101]

Guys why are you so xenophobic. Chill it's not like humanity matters anyways we are all mortal. The best we can do is to help others and make life more complete and wholesome. By bullying a group of people who have a popular belief you are not fostering goodwill. If anything, THAT is evil.

[kayla...]

I like to be open minded and live n let live but is there a happy ending story? One where a lot of muslims moved to a new place that's already got an existing culture - especially a modern one and improved it for the people already there?

[Porpoise101]

I like to be open minded and live n let live but is there a happy ending story? One where a lot of muslims moved to a new place that's already got an existing culture - especially a modern one and improved it for the people already there?
Yes. I live near a place called Dearborn. To give you context, it has the largest Muslim population in the western hemisphere. This place is a safe community with nice people. Some people like the Bosnians , Syrians, and Lebanese were even refugees at one time. Even non-Muslims live there. In metro Detroit we have lots of Greeks, Chaldeans, and Albanians. All of these people seem to have nice, moral children and they all study hard. Many of the Arabs, Lebanese, and Chaldeans are very successful too. In fact, the man who owns the ambassador bridge is Lebanese. They donate to charity and volunteer. They are American now though. And they have probably improved the community too, as who could hate quality shawarma or falafel?
In our community, the most dangerous threat is the (bordering insane) Michigan Militia in the country and the gangs in Detroit. And it's funny, because those people would almost certainly be called "American".

[Daniella98]

Danish girls are not normally that easy manipulated. And Denmark is not a particularly religious country or violent country.

[tonymontana99]

Guys why are you so xenophobic. Chill it's not like humanity matters anyways we are all mortal. The best we can do is to help others and make life more complete and wholesome. By bullying a group of people who have a popular belief you are not fostering goodwill. If anything, THAT is evil.

Fuck your "goodwill". Dude, in the end, it's going to be that humanitarian, "we have to save everyone!" mentality that's going to doom us. How the hell could we make our life more complete and wholesome by bending over and taking it in the ass by some extremist radical Islamist? Don't try and bullshit me and say they're misunderstood or anything, because in the end you know damn well these people are a poison to our traditions.

Fun thing is that the same liberals who are crying "humanitarianism!" and for us to help these people are going to be the first ones to be executed. And unlike our limp-dicked society, they won't take your liberal, progressive bullshit.

[tonymontana99]

I like to be open minded and live n let live but is there a happy ending story? One where a lot of muslims moved to a new place that's already got an existing culture - especially a modern one and improved it for the people already there?

Of course, here you go: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kd3FtoN9Y34

And this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkIocH91j0w

That last video is honestly the most red-pilled video out there.

Danish girls are not normally that easy manipulated. And Denmark is not a particularly religious country or violent country.

Well, if your country had bent over to Frau Merkel (which it will, eventually) this would only be worse. And it will be worse. Just you wait.

[kayla...]

It does seem the few examples are the exception
I saw the UK has donated more money to Syrian refugee crisis than all the richest Arab nations combined

[Left Now]

It does seem the few examples are the exception
I saw the UK has donated more money to Syrian refugee crisis than all the richest Arab nations combined

Ah,Arab nations like Saudi Arabia,Qatar and UAE you say?Such great examples of Islamic nations they are right?

Anyway putting everything aside I can assure you that something is wrong with many Muslims in western Europe and United States and it is all result of Al-Az'har's growing influence in these areas,which itself is heavily influenced by Wahhabi school of thought.

[Judean Zealot]

Ah,Arab nations like Saudi Arabia,Qatar and UAE you say?Such great examples of Islamic nations they are right?

Anyway putting everything aside I can assure you that something is wrong with many Muslims in western Europe and United States and it is all result of Al-Az'har's growing influence in these areas,which itself is heavily influenced by Wahhabi school of thought.

Interestingly, in America the Muslims are far better citizens as a whole than Europe. I personally attribute that to America's 'Live and let live' mentality, as opposed to Europe's more dogmatic left wing, i.e. 'let's prohibit women from wearing hijabs in public'. Repression of religion is the most sure fire way to radicalize any religious group.

[Porpoise101]

Interestingly, in America the Muslims are far better citizens as a whole than Europe. I personally attribute that to America's 'Live and let live' mentality, as opposed to Europe's more dogmatic left wing, i.e. 'let's prohibit women from wearing hijabs in public'. Repression of religion is the most sure fire way to radicalize any religious group.
Also in Europe there is no sense of "oneness". Once people come to the US, they want to be American, but not be homesick. So they bring traditions but also assimilate and become American citizens. In Europe, the government tells you that you cannot ever become French or German for example. Even if you are born in French or German lands, you aren't a citizen. Because of this mixed with the instability and toxicity, we have a poisonous mixture in Europe where Muslim immigrants don't have a civic sense of purpose and they don't take up the host culture while also being pressured by extremists.

[Left Now]

Interestingly, in America the Muslims are far better citizens as a whole than Europe. I personally attribute that to America's 'Live and let live' mentality, as opposed to Europe's more dogmatic left wing, i.e. 'let's prohibit women from wearing hijabs in public'. Repression of religion is the most sure fire way to radicalize any religious group.

I think United Kingdom has really better conditions than rest of Europe in this matter,is that right?

[Judean Zealot]

I think United Kingdom has really better conditions than rest of Europe in this matter,is that right?

I believe so.

[Stronk Serb]

Guys why are you so xenophobic. Chill it's not like humanity matters anyways we are all mortal. The best we can do is to help others and make life more complete and wholesome. By bullying a group of people who have a popular belief you are not fostering goodwill. If anything, THAT is evil.

Goodwill is exausted when the ones who you offered it to you shove it up your ass. I mean, my grandparents who lived in Oberhausen, Germany had pretty bad experiences with Turks (and they are not turkophobic). Sure, come here, sure, work, but if you refuse to follow the local laws and demand different rights that benefit only your interests which you took from a tainted religion.

[Xawarus]

I think its time that, like the Christians also did like 100 years ago, the Muslim people finally get over their religion. They should learn, like we had to, that we're over religion. We could all live in peace, or at least we would have a big problem away.

It's really sad to read such a story. (Especially I think that this girl is pretty af)
It's sad that such a beautiful human had to ruin her entire life, because a 29 year old psychopath washed her brain.

[Left Now]

I think its time that, like the Christians also did like 100 years ago, the Muslim people finally get over their religion. They should learn, like we had to, that we're over religion. We could all live in peace, or at least we would have a big problem away.

It's really sad to read such a story. (Especially I think that this girl is pretty af)
It's sad that such a beautiful human had to ruin her entire life, because a 29 year old psychopath washed her brain.

The problem is early Islam was 80 percents of times similar to current system called Secularism and in some matters even better,historical evidents can prove it.If the early version of Islam without adaptions from European Christianity and Sassanid Zoroastrianism was still practiced,it could be really better.

[Stronk Serb]

The problem is early Islam was 80 percents of times similar to current system called Secularism and in some matters even better,historical evidents can prove it.If the early version of Islam without adaptions from European Christianity and Sassanid Zoroastrianism was still practiced,it could be really better.

Yeah, that was very good. I mean look at Cordoba, under Muslim rule there were lots of Jews, Muslims and Christians living there.

[Left Now]

Yeah, that was very good. I mean look at Cordoba, under Muslim rule there were lots of Jews, Muslims and Christians living there.

Also look at Arabia under Muhammad himself or the Caliphate under Ali.

Although in some periods this would mess up but they were rare.

[Miserabilia]

A crazy person does something crazy...

What to blame?
islam!!!!

[Porpoise101]

1. >Implying this guy wouldn't shoot up a school or a public place if he had the chance.

2. No one mentioned the other religions.

Stop shilling for these people before it's too late.

Watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=31&v=UkIocH91j0w

Wake up!
Hah I didn't watch this video initially because I figured it's right wing conspiracy filth. Then I watched. I heard the words "... Unless they're in on the cover up." And I lost it. Bring some serious non partisan evidence if you want to prove a point.

[tonymontana99]

Hah I didn't watch this video initially because I figured it's right wing conspiracy filth. Then I watched. I heard the words "... Unless they're in on the cover up." And I lost it. Bring some serious non partisan evidence if you want to prove a point.

A crazy person does something crazy...

What to blame?
islam!!!!

Gimme a break.

The one thing lefties fear the most is having to admit that they were wrong. That's why after every terror attack their first reaction is to scream that no one should use this "isolated incident" for political leverage - because they know exactly that the other side predicted it and was right again.

Giving condolences to the families of the victims or reporting accurately on the incident is at the bottom of their priority list.

[Xawarus]

A crazy person does something crazy...

What to blame?
islam!!!!

I don't blame the islam per se, I blame the people who think they have to hardcore practice it not only for themselves, but for everyone else.

[Left Now]

I don't blame the islam per se, I blame the people who think they have to hardcore practice it not only for themselves, but for everyone else.

Next time you encountered someone who was so-called Muslim and acted like this,tell them this verse :

"There is no force in a accepting a cause" Baqara 255

If it did not silence them then just pass away him.

[tovaris]

This happened for many reasons not on o them being islam, if the we sas censored this wouldnt hve happened. If better nurture and teaching of children hd gon on in schools this wouldnt hav happened.
Nd why the hell did this child habžve an older boyfriend!

[kayla...]

Could still draw a connection to islam, read the koran it isn't a peace loving book, there are many examples of justifying acts or inciting acts of violence especially towards Jews. Anyone who loves the book or believes it's right can't really be trusted to have a heart for peace

Looking at the recent terror attacks it isn't islamophobia if they actually want to kill you

[Left Now]

Could still draw a connection to islam, read the koran it isn't a peace loving book, there are many examples of justifying acts or inciting acts of violence especially towards Jews. Anyone who loves the book or believes it's right can't really be trusted to have a heart for peace

Looking at the recent terror attacks it isn't islamophobia if they actually want to kill you



Speaking without evidence.Please bring examples of what you are strongly claiming.

[kayla...]

I don't have a copy here but how about "kill them where you find them"?
Compare the people fleeing the Middle East to Americans of a generations back, when the British rules - the young men didn't flee in droves, they fought back and won their home from tyrants
Just not made of weaker stuff I guess

[Porpoise101]

I don't have a copy here but how about "kill them where you find them"?
Compare the people fleeing the Middle East to Americans of a generations back, when the British rules - the young men didn't flee in droves, they fought back and won their home from tyrants
Just not made of weaker stuff I guess
But lots of them did. Only after the battle of Trenton did soldiers stop deserting en masse. Anyways, where could they go? They couldn't escape from war either. Also we have to take into account the fact that we have constant media attention about the terrors of war and they didn't. Besides, the crazy idealistic ones are fighting.

[Left Now]

I don't have a copy here but how about "kill them where you find them"?

Only a little part of a whole section of Quran, biasedly extracted to serve an unfair purpose.

This section was first introduced for dealing with the matter of fighting Meccan Pagan forces who forced Muslim population of Meeca out of their lands and caused their exile to other places and also their caravans and traveling parties being chased and harassed by them,after the formation of Muhammad's government in Yathrib.

...And fight those who want to fight you in the way of God,but do not transgress for God does not like transgressors;and in battle kill them wherever you find them and force them out of the lands which were yours before they forced you out of them,since their tricks are even worse than murder itself.

And avoid fighting them alongside forbidden places ( Mecca ) unless they want to fight you.So if fight is what they seek,then fight them and kill them;this is what they deserve.

And if they stopped their tricks and their warmongerings,then stop fighting them,since God is kind and forgiving.


So fight them until their tricks and their threats are neutralized and nothing remains of the threat from their direction;and the religion of God is like this,that if they stopped fighting you,stop the conflict with them and since after the truce you are not permitted to fight them. - Sura Baqara verses 190-192

This sounds nothing to me except a simple legal permission and instruction for defense against invaders and harassers and foreign enemy forces.

You do not have enough information on a matter,yet you want to comment on it like an expert.Surely you don not have any bad intentions,but this type of view causes your comments to be unfair and lacking logic.

I hope I have made it clear that I meant no disrespect toward you and your beliefs miss.I just wanted to urge you act and comment fairly and of course wisely in such matters like this.


Compare the people fleeing the Middle East to Americans of a generations back, when the British rules - the young men didn't flee in droves, they fought back and won their home from tyrants
Just not made of weaker stuff I guess

Ah,I think the same thing happened just about 35 years ago here.Everyone remembers Iran-Iraq war?

[kayla...]

No not really, was it a big deal?
Kind of before my time.
Don't have a high opinion of Iran and its islamic government
Executing teenagers for being gay or just experimenting
Executing girls who were raped for adultery- especially if they fought back
That the execution age for girls is much younger than boys because "they should know better"
The public nature of execution too.
islam is a misogynistic belief system as it is, Iran seems to take it up a notch
Spare me the 'we respect women more than other cultures' nonsense, it's sad old joke that no one cares for

[Left Now]

No not really, was it a big deal?
Kind of before my time.
Don't have a high opinion of Iran and its islamic government
Executing teenagers for being gay or just experimenting
Executing girls who were raped for adultery- especially if they fought back
That the execution age for girls is much younger than boys because "they should know better"
The public nature of execution too.
islam is a misogynistic belief system as it is, Iran seems to take it up a notch
Spare me the 'we respect women more than other cultures' nonsense, it's sad old joke that no one cares for

Always without evidence.I just wanted to make it clear you are acting completely unfair in such matters and when it comes to evidences you are just clueless.Why so mad when it is proved that you are wrong?

[Porpoise101]

Always without evidence.I just wanted to make it clear you are acting completely unfair in such matters and when it comes to evidences you are just clueless.Why so mad when it is proved that you are wrong?
Hey Iran's government is oppressive in some aspects. You cannot deny that they oppress Bahá'í people (source: http://www.iranhrdc.org/english/publications/reports/3149-a-faith-denied-the-persecution-of-the-baha-is-of-iran.html) and marginalize other religious minorities. Executions are also a thing too as shown here: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/sep/07/iran-executes-men-homosexuality-charges. Although her claims are perverted by hate and she should list sources, her claims have some place in reality. As for Iran-Iraq war it was a big deal for the region as a whole even though there was little visible change on a map.

[Judean Zealot]

No not really, was it a big deal?
Kind of before my time.
Don't have a high opinion of Iran and its islamic government
Executing teenagers for being gay or just experimenting
Executing girls who were raped for adultery- especially if they fought back
That the execution age for girls is much younger than boys because "they should know better"
The public nature of execution too.
islam is a misogynistic belief system as it is, Iran seems to take it up a notch
Spare me the 'we respect women more than other cultures' nonsense, it's sad old joke that no one cares for

Lol. I think that Broken Pen is literally the most respectful male towards women on this site. The irony.

And yes, the Iran-Iraq war was quite a big deal. I think if you didn't know that it is kind of symptomatic that you have no understanding of our region.

[Left Now]

Hey Iran's government is oppressive in some aspects. You cannot deny that they oppress Bahá'í people (source: http://www.iranhrdc.org/english/publications/reports/3149-a-faith-denied-the-persecution-of-the-baha-is-of-iran.html)

About Baha'eis,who said that they are being treated fairly in Iran?I said?No.

But how they are being treated is a completely senseless matter according to Islamic Principles,as many jurists in Iran itself have opposed this minor persecution of Bahaeis.But still it does not mean that all Bahaeis must be considered completely innocent in this matter.

After and before the revolution they have been one of worst groups that have tried to harm the country in many ways,alongside so-called Shias who have extraordinary extreme views.

During Shah's times they were the most politically active group which had one of the major roles in :

1-Overthrowing Mossadegh and return of Shah to power

2-Growing influence of foreign countries and economic self-interest companies in Iran which caused an economic breakdown for people who lived out of central areas

3-Massacre and persecution of many people during Shah's reign

4-Their foreign branches had active cooperation with Saddam against Iran during Iran-Iraq war

5-Active cooperation with MEK against Iran

These make it a little difficult for Iranians in general to change their views 180 degree toward Bahaeis.Although I am not denying that this behavior is not fair toward this tiny minority group,but:

1-This has nothing to do with Islamic Principles first,let aside that they are 1000 times exaggerating about this matter

2-Bahaeis themselves are not so cooperative for betterment of their conditions neither

Like for example in 2009,they were one of most active groups cooperating with foreign countries in the things which happened after election.They cannot expect government to act fine with them if they do not try to cooperate with government themselves.Hopefully this will get better in the future.


But personally I have nothing against Bahaeis in general,putting aside ones that similar to extremist Shias have ruined many opportunities for this country.


and marginalize other religious minorities.

How for example are they being marginalized?



Executions are also a thing too as shown here: http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...uality-charges.

In this article they have failed to mention that "That 18 was executed for Sodomy Rape".People are not being executed for homosexuality or even private homosexual relations with each others here.There are even parks where homosexual people usually meet each others in them and they are infamous for this,yet neither people nor government have no problem with them.The fact is actually even if you look at history,there was tolerance toward homosexuals in early Islamic history or even early Islamic Jurisprudence.These laws of execution have been adopted during late eras of 17th-20th centuries.

Regardless of religion,homosexuality have always been a taboo in this region and even in Zoroastrianism,one would face heavy punishments for this at its worst death.The fact is today,no one cares what is your sexuality here and people have no problem with it;just do not try to SHOUT (I am not saying don't talk about it with others) it in public and force it down on other people while majority of people do not want such things to be SHOUTED in public.If you do,then you cannot expect the majority not to react to it.The whole matter is this;respect majority's feeling about not wanting a thing to be SHOUTED in public,they will get along with you.

Also another thing;execution in Iran is legally for only these cases:

1-Murder (if victims kin do not forgive the killer)

2-Rape (if victim does not forgive the rapist)

3-More than 2.0 tons of drug-trafficking if being armed

4-Proved Espionage and cooperation with foreign intelligences against the government if decided by court


Although her claims are perverted by hate and she should list sources, her claims have some place in reality

Everything has some place in reality,it depends on how big is its place.


Executing teenagers for being gay or just experimenting

I just made it clear that during last 14 years no one have been executed for just being homosexual or even simple homosexual relationship,but mostly for homosexual rape.Other cases were other cases,not homosexuality or homosexual acts.

So this is seriously out-numbered.Homosexual males can even get military service exemption here,which means they are considered as citizens with special issues.They have legal status.




Executing girls who were raped for adultery- especially if they fought back

Utterly nonsense.If there are 10 cases of rape,7 of them ends with rapists being executed,2 of them the cases being closed because of insufficient evidences against accused,1 of them ends with victim withdrawing their rights to take rapist's life.


That the execution age for girls is much younger than boys because "they should know better"

Utterly nonsense.Accroding to constitution individuals under 18 are not to face harsh punishments including capital punishment;for female it can even be extended to 25.


Now I want to make it clear that of course our legal system has many problems and I myself am one of those who want many of these systematics change,but this lady is not commenting fair on this matter.She seems to want to comment like an expert without having enough information;you know how this makes her comments.

Lol. I think that Broken Pen is literally the most respectful male towards women on this site. The irony.

Why Irony?

[Body odah Man]

Two sick people are NOT the representation nor the basis of Islam. It sounds to me like the girl would have become just as insane even without that boyfriend. I'm pretty sure videos of beheadings won't drive someone to murder people unless they're already fucked up in the head. It's not like Islam magically corrupted her. Get a grip people

[Judean Zealot]

Why Irony?
I just find it funny that she's screaming at you regarding women's rights.

[phuckphace]

In this article they have failed to mention that "That 18 was executed for Sodomy Rape"

lmao that's quite the omission there, and something tells me it was intentional on their part

some years ago in the US a couple of degenerates/fuckbuddies kidnapped a young boy and subsequently raped and murdered him. the media referred to them as "two men" while curiously omitting the fact that they were a gay couple, presumably because UM THAT HAS LITERALLY NOTHING TO DO WITH IT, BIGOT. I already knew Western media likes to cover up inconvenient details but forgot just how egregious it is sometimes. heil Hitler.

[kayla...]

I'm not a hater I'm just not impressed and have a great deal of pity

By all means defend your nation that has an execution age for preteen girls
You can throw all the stats and historical references but do tell me what you do to fight for the rights of children and females there?
Do you speak against stoning people to death or even hanging?

Does it bother you the prophet had relations with a 9 year old?
It's all very creepy and sad and scares people when they start to look into it

[Judean Zealot]

By all means defend your nation that has an execution age for preteen girls [citation needed]
You can throw all the stats and historical references but do tell me what you do to fight for the rights of children and females there?
What do you do to fight for the rights of women and children? Also, do you fight for the rights of children in the womb?
you speak against stoning people to death or even hanging?
Rapists and murderers? Why would he?

Does it bother you the prophet had relations with a 9 year old?
As far as I recall Islamic tradition (?) maintains that the marriage wasn't sexually consummated until Ayesha was older.

[kayla...]

Denial
Not just a river in Egypt.

[phuckphace]

Denial
Not just a river in Egypt.

http://i.imgur.com/DW5nDrS.gif

[Vlerchan]

People are not being executed for homosexuality or even private homosexual relations with each others here.

I'm quoting directly from Iran statute.

Chapter 2 - Hadd punishment for sodomy (livat)
Section 1 -Definition and reasons of hadd punishment for sodomy:
Article 108 –Sodomy (livat) is defined as sexual intercourse with a male, whether it takes place as penetration or tafkhiz [rubbing penis between thighs].
Article 109 -Both the insertive and receptive parties of sodomy shall be sentenced to hadd punishment.
Article 110 -In the case of penetration, the hadd punishment for sodomy is the death penalty—the method for which is at the discretion of the judge.
Article 111 -Sodomy shall result in the death penalty provided that both the insertive and receptive parties are mature, sane and free.
Article 112 -If a mature man sodomizes a minor, the insertive party shall be sentenced to the death penalty; and the receptive party, if not coerced, shall receive up to seventy four lashes as ta’zir punishment.
Article 113 -If a minor sodomises another minor, each shall receive up to seventy four lashes as ta’zir punishment, unless, one of them was coerced to commit sodomy.

Islamic Penal Code of the Islamic Republic of Iran (2013) (http://www.iranhrdc.org/english/human-rights-documents/iranian-codes/3200-islamic-penal-code-of-the-islamic-republic-of-iran-book-one-and-book-two.html)

That's the previous penal code. I couldn't access an English draft of the 2015 code but I managed to find a list of amendments (http://www.iranhrdc.org/english/human-rights-documents/iranian-codes/1000000602-amendments-to-the-islamic-republic-of-iran%E2%80%99s-new-code-of-criminal-procedure.html) and it doesn't seem to have changed.

I went looking for a definition of 'mature'. I haven't seen it defined in Iranian statuate.

Currently there are at least 143 cases of minors under 18 facing the death penalty. Shirin Ebadi, Attorney at Law, and Nobel laureate, states: “The highest execution orders issued against minors are as a result of Qisas-i Nafs [retribution for life], and unless and until minors are exempt from execution under Qisas, there will not be a considerable change from the status quo. Offenses concerning drugs and sexual matters are the primary reasons for the death penalty, next to murder.

http://www.iranhrdc.org/english/publications/legal-commentary/1000000102-the-execution-of-women-in-iranian-criminal-law.html

I'm not sure if 'sexual matters' [italicised] refers to just adultery - of which those under the age of eighteen can for certain be sentenced to death for - or if it's broader [including sodomy].

Article 119 -Testimony of women, whether alone or together with men, may not prove sodomy. [...]

Article 121 -The hadd punishment for tafkhiz [rubbing penis between thighs] committed by two men without penetration shall be one hundred lashes for each one.

Note -if the insertive party is a non-Muslim and the receptive party is a Muslim, the hadd punishment for the insertive party shall be the death penalty.

Islamic Penal Code of the Islamic Republic of Iran (2013) (http://www.iranhrdc.org/english/human-rights-documents/iranian-codes/3200-islamic-penal-code-of-the-islamic-republic-of-iran-book-one-and-book-two.html)

Some examples of religious and sex-based discrimination. I checked the same list of amendments and it still stands.

[Left Now]

I'm not a hater I'm just not impressed and have a great deal of pity

No offense but I just wonder what more could happen if you were one.



By all means defend your nation that has an execution age for preteen girls
You can throw all the stats and historical references

You are claiming something which is not right.I am referring to stats and historical and also theological references just to prove this.

Also until the time a RELIABLE
source which does not exist at all confirm your statement about execution of preteen girls,which is utterly nonsense since I can even prove that ladies have more legal tolerance than men here in many legal cases,even murder and governmental corruptions.

but do tell me what you do to fight for the rights of children and females there?

Rights of children...strange thing this one.

What should I do?Gather people in streets and hold useless demonstrations?I am trying my best to learn more so when I entered the society I can be useful in different matters,that is the best thing which I can do right now as a university student of veterinary school.


Do you speak against stoning people to death or even hanging?

Ah actually when I said you are clueless when it comes to matter of evidence I was kidding;you are utterly not even aware of what clue is in these matters miss.

Technically there have been no legitimate and legal stoning in last 13 years and the law of stoning itself was also removed from constitution a few years ago.


And about hanging,well what other methods you recommend?Injecting them with deadly medicines so they can have a real painful death?Injecting them with air?Using electric chair or poison them with lethal gas?Or maybe you would like us to line them up in front of a wall so fire squad can shoot?


The capital punishment in Iran can only be done in specific conditions,not always,not for every crime.In cases of murder,if victims' kin do not accept to forgive the killer it will be capital punishment for them;although nearly everyone including law enforcers themselves will beg the victims' kin desperately not to want the killer be executed.In cases of rape it is also up to victim to choose the fate of rapist.In cases of armed drug-trafficking,death sentence is certain.In cases of espionage,it is up to government itself.Except from capital punishment laws for sodomy and married-adultery,which is nearly impossible to be proved according to law itself,what is wrong with these laws for execution?



Does it bother you the prophet had relations with a 9 year old?
It's all very creepy and sad and scares people when they start to look into it


Aisha was betrothed to him when she was 9,married to him when she turned 13 and entered his household when she was 15.Also it is not surprising that you have no understanding of concept of marriage in those times in Middle East and Arabia,that it was mostly mainly for providing protection and welfare for female individuals.Also according to many sources Muhammad had only one biological child who survived the childhood and she was Fatima daughter of Khadija,Muhammad's first and most beloved wife who was ironically a considerable number of years older than him;also Muhammad used to fast for long times and in most days of year,it required him not to have any type of sexual relations with his wives for a long time.A man who acts like this cannot be considered sexually lusty.

Ah another thing;just look how Muhammad used to behave with his wives,I also recommend this to so-called Muslims who behave bad with their wives.They were like Queens for him,respecting them with his whole existence.Historical sources can and will prove that.

So no it is not creepy for me that this man has married with a girl who according to most sources was married to him at least when she was 14,and he never behaved with her like how many other men in most of the world would behave with their wives in the same period of time.



I'm quoting directly from Iran statute.

[indent] Chapter 2 - Hadd punishment for sodomy (livat)
Section 1 -Definition and reasons of hadd punishment for sodomy:
Article 108 –Sodomy (livat) is defined as sexual intercourse with a male, whether it takes place as penetration or tafkhiz [rubbing penis between thighs].
Article 109 -Both the insertive and receptive parties of sodomy shall be sentenced to hadd punishment.
Article 110 -In the case of penetration, the hadd punishment for sodomy is the death penalty—the method for which is at the discretion of the judge.
Article 111 -Sodomy shall result in the death penalty provided that both the insertive and receptive parties are mature, sane and free.
Article 112 -If a mature man sodomizes a minor, the insertive party shall be sentenced to the death penalty; and the receptive party, if not coerced, shall receive up to seventy four lashes as ta’zir punishment.
Article 113 -If a minor sodomises another minor, each shall receive up to seventy four lashes as ta’zir punishment, unless, one of them was coerced to commit sodomy.

All of this if proved and confirmed by Four Reliable and Trusted Individuals who have WITNESSED the act by their own eyes with each others,not to forget that they have to mention where they were when they have seen it,what did they do after seeing it and how they were able to see it.

If they were at their privacy,then they cannot be considered as trusted and reliable for disrespecting the privacy of others,so their confirming is useless and will only end in their own being lashed in public and their reputation being completely ruined for perjury.No one can prove that two people were engaging in a sexual relationship if they wouldn't be in their privacy.Entering the privacy of others have a punishment special for itself.


For minors,there have not been any actual execution of this law during last years,if be the media woud cover because it has no concern about people know the execution of its own law,but to be honest the presence of law itself is a problem.

If in public,well then it is what I emphasized on:SHOUTING IT IN PUBLIC

Although even right now many jurists are trying to change this law completely,because despite its being present in constitution,it is not actively executable.So its present is just becoming a simple joke for the legal system;however still hardliners are against it.


I went looking for a definition of 'mature'. I haven't seen it defined in Iranian statuate.

This (http://www.yjc.ir/fa/news/4232464/%D9%85%D9%86%D8%B9-%D8%A7%D8%B9%D8%AF%D8%A7%D9%85-%D9%83%D9%88%D8%AF%D9%83%D8%A7%D9%86-%D8%B2%D9%8A%D8%B1-18-%D8%B3%D8%A7%D9%84-%D8%AF%D8%B1-%D9%82%D8%A7%D9%86%D9%88%D9%86-%D8%AC%D8%AF%D9%8A%D8%AF-%D9%85%D8%AC%D8%A7%D8%B2%D8%A7%D8%AA-%D8%A7%D8%B3%D9%84%D8%A7%D9%85%D9%8A) is a news from one of most reliable sources of news in Iran about such matters.The title says "Banning of Capital and Harsh Punishment for individuals under 18 according to new Islamic Punishment Constitutions".This was introduced by head Judiciary System himself in 1391 (2011-2012)



Currently there are at least 143 cases of minors under 18 facing the death penalty. Shirin Ebadi, Attorney at Law, and Nobel laureate, states: “The highest execution orders issued against minors are as a result of Qisas-i Nafs [retribution for life], and unless and until minors are exempt from execution under Qisas, there will not be a considerable change from the status quo. Offenses concerning drugs and sexual matters are the primary reasons for the death penalty, next to murder.

Shirin Ebadi who was legally accused for many legal cases herself before leaving Iran,including receiving bribe from many people inside government itself...Not a reliable source at all if you want to be sure about such matters.


Also according to source above this claim is out.



I'm not sure if 'sexual matters' [italicised] refers to just adultery - of which those under the age of eighteen can for certain be sentenced to death for - or if it's broader [including sodomy].

Adultery of married people only is punishable by death,if proved by the witness of Four Reliable and Trusted male individuals,with same conditions above,same for sodomy.Have fun proving it and also....Good Luck.



Article 119 -Testimony of women, whether alone or together with men, may not prove sodomy. [...]

Article 121 -The hadd punishment for tafkhiz [rubbing penis between thighs] committed by two men without penetration shall be one hundred lashes for each one.

Note -if the insertive party is a non-Muslim and the receptive party is a Muslim, the hadd punishment for the insertive party shall be the death penalty.

Islamic Penal Code of the Islamic Republic of Iran (2013)
Some examples of religious and sex-based discrimination. I checked the same list of amendments and it still stands.

And I am not denying that.This is why I say there are needs for reform in constitution,specially about the part regarding non-Muslim insertive.Because according to no early sources of Prophet-line quotes and Quran itself such a law like this can be extracted.In many ways the laws of Islamic Republic are not Islamic,just adaptation of some schools of thought like 16th Safavid and 19th Ghajar schools which historically are not even near early versions as they claim.

But still Four Reliable and Trusted Male Individuals must have WITNESSED the act with their own eyes.This is not something usual in this law and it is actually provided so that adultery,sodomy and other types of these acts do not get public and being dealt with privately.This also can prove that many numbers and cases of actual execution of this law are just exaggerations,not evident facts legally confirmed by either participants or the witness of Four Reliable and Trusted Individuals by their own eyes with each others.


Also let us not forget that we are discussing the actual events,not laws here.

[Vlerchan]

All of this if proved and confirmed by Four Reliable and Trusted Individuals who have WITNESSED the act by their own eyes with each others[.]
In the Iranian statutes it just refers to 'just men'.

I don't know a lot about Iranian legal custom so perhaps you might be able to provide a source - statute or case law - defining the term within Iranian law.

If they were at their privacy,then they cannot be considered as trusted and reliable for disrespecting the privacy of others,so their confirming is useless and will only end in their own being lashed in public and their reputation being completely ruined for perjury.No one can prove that two people were engaging in a sexual relationship if they wouldn't be in their privacy.Entering the privacy of others have a punishment special for itself.
I would like to see this sources with either reference to statute or case law. Thank you.

If in public,well then it is what I emphasized on:SHOUTING IT IN PUBLIC
To me the statutes seem to indicate that our four 'just men' must have witnessed the act.

Or is it the case that our four just men can just report that they heard someone say it?

This is a news from one of most reliable sources of news in Iran about such matters.The title says "Banning of Capital and Harsh Punishment for individuals under 18 according to new Islamic Punishment Constitutions".This was introduced by head Judiciary System himself in 1391 (2011-2012)
Ok. can you produce the actual source? I would prefer an English translated version because I can make-do with Iranian.

Shirin Ebadi who was legally accused for many legal cases herself before leaving Iran,including receiving bribe from many people inside government itself...Not a reliable source at all if you want to be sure about such matters.

It's not Shirin Ebadi that made the claim that "[c]urrently there are at least 143 cases of minors under 18 facing the death penalty".

I also think Shirin Ebadi is a rather respectable voice on the issue regardless of whether your unsourced claims about the to-be-sourced claims against her are true. I should add that I received no results when I searched for Ebadi having received bribes - and on consideration of her reported persecution within Iran I wouldn't be surprised if it was invented in the Iranian media.

Adultery of married people only is punishable by death,if proved by the witness of Four Reliable and Trusted male individuals,with same conditions above,same for sodomy.
If I honest that doesn't comfort me at all considering how vague Iranian statute seems to leave 'just men'.

Though the point was that people underage can still be executed for crimes relating to sex.

This also can prove that many numbers and cases of actual execution of this law are just exaggerations,not evident facts legally confirmed by either participants or the witness of Four Reliable and Trusted Individuals by their own eyes with each others.
I do actually realise this. People in the West get a larger impression that is of executions of LGB-people than actually is because the cases just happen to be high profile. I just have an issue with how the law itself is set up, I don't believe that in itself is correct. Fair enough you don't seem to either though.

[Left Now]

In the Iranian statutes it just refers to 'just men'.

I don't know a lot about Iranian legal custom so perhaps you might be able to provide a source - statute or case law - defining the term within Iranian law.


I said in last parts of my previous post "Four male individuals".

One of the sources used for this law in constitution is "Laws of Islamic Jurisprudence" first book page 42.Unfortunately I could not find an English version.Sorry.


I would like to see this sources with either reference to statute or case law. Thank you.

According to 1,9,22 and 23 articles of Constitutional Attachments:Entering the privacy of others is considered a crime for regular individuals.

According to article 650 of Islamic Punishment Law section : Prejury will be punished by up to 2 years of being imprisoned (or 40 lashes in old version) and up to 12 milion Rials fine,in some special cases even lashes and long term imprisonment.



Ok. can you produce the actual source? I would prefer an English translated version because I can make-do with Iranian

Sorry,it takes too much time and I have recently become so busy.But I will try my best to get some actual footages for you in university if I could.



To me the statutes seem to indicate that our four 'just men' must have witnessed the act.

Or is it the case that our four just men can just report that they heard someone say it?


I said that too in the last part of my previous post.

No they must have witnessed it with their own eyes,and their descriptions must be completely matched.Otherwise prejury.

It's not Shirin Ebadi that made the claim that "[c]urrently there are at least 143 cases of minors under 18 facing the death penalty".

I also think Shirin Ebadi is a rather respectable voice on the issue regardless of whether your unsourced claims about the to-be-sourced claims against her are true. I should add that I received no results when I searched for Ebadi having received bribes - and on consideration of her reported persecution within Iran I wouldn't be surprised if it was invented in the Iranian media.

Sorry I should have made it clear that the second part of this part of my previous post was for the first part of your response.

About Shirin Ebadi,well once she was a respected lawyer within Iran itself.I too suspect that the rumors about her recieving bribes are real but actually it was not media but people themselves who began saying this (media had better evidences against her claims in matter of political prisoners).To be fair since that story about bribes would also involve high political figures themselves too,I some kinda believe the media would censor it.Also on the other side it could hurt her own reputation too.But still I agree with you in this matter that sources are not reliable here.I should also apologize for bringing this up since they were based just on some rumors among lawyers in those years.

But she actively is involved in some legal cases,including giving statistics without actual evidences and footages,and also some other cases which are mostly personal matters which we do not want to discuss it here.But generally,she is not trusted among majority of Iranians,regardless of government's attitude toward her.



If I honest that doesn't comfort me at all considering how vague Iranian statute seems to leave 'just men'.

Same here.However it is just in this matter and adultery.In other matters it is different.


Though the point was that people underage can still be executed for crimes relating to sex.

Not according to recent new law.To be honest,sexual matters are not so important it has been exaggerated a little in these matters;this law was mostly for underage committing murder.For actual execution of these laws only cases related to murder gets to serious stages.But still this law exists and although it is not taken seriously,it would better to be reformed.



I do actually realise this. People in the West get a larger impression that is of executions of LGB-people than actually is because the cases just happen to be high profile. I just have an issue with how the law itself is set up, I don't believe that in itself is correct. Fair enough you don't seem to either though.

Happy to hear that.But still the matter related to sexual things are like this.People just do not want them to get public,this is why most laws in these matters are written seriously,but are not taken so seriously in society itself.Especially in recent years.

[kayla...]

Sounds like Taqiyya to me.
That's why no one trusts you guys

[Porpoise101]

Sounds like Taqiyya to me.
That's why no one trusts you guys
If I'm not mistaken taqiyya was only meant for when a Muslim was under religious persecution. Broken Pen isn't being persecuted, but he is refuting your mostly ludicrous claims.

[kayla...]

All open for interpretation
And hard to believe any of them when they all disagree
You'll have imams say absolutely Aisha was older some swear she was married to Mohammed when 8, started her menses at 9 and thus he consummated (had sex) the marriage even though he was in his 50s

Seriously the amount of things Mohamed would be in jail for these days, he'd never get out - but we are supposed to respect the belief system he created?

I'll pass

[Porpoise101]

All open for interpretation
And hard to believe any of them when they all disagree
You'll have imams say absolutely Aisha was older some swear she was married to Mohammed when 8, started her menses at 9 and thus he consummated (had sex) the marriage even though he was in his 50s

Seriously the amount of things Mohamed would be in jail for these days, he'd never get out - but we are supposed to respect the belief system he created?

I'll pass
It's not like it was uncommon for there to be young women married to older men. You have to look at it within the context of the time where there was lots of war. No one is asking you to respect it either. You just need to stop blindly attacking it with weak claims.

[Left Now]

All open for interpretation
And hard to believe any of them when they all disagree
You'll have imams say absolutely Aisha was older some swear she was married to Mohammed when 8, started her menses at 9 and thus he consummated (had sex) the marriage even though he was in his 50s


Most sources usually compare Aisha's age with her elder sister's who was ten years older than her.

According to these sources when Aisha was betrothed to Muhammad,Asma'e Bint Abi Bakr was 27 (first year after migration).So it says that Aisha was more than 15 years old when she was married to him and entered his household.Many Sunni Imams usually brag that Aisha married him before his tenth,because they believe it will place her above other wives of Muhammad for being married to him in her young ages;(Aisha is a very prominent figure in Sunni Islam,despite being held in a negative view in Shia Islam)

The fact is,most sources agree that she was more than 14 or even 15 when she married Muhammad and entered her household.Although I doubt you be even interested in reading history,but I recommend you to take a look at some of these sources,two of 10 Sunni sources that I have which can prove that Aisha was more than 15 in year 1 Lunar Hijri:

Ma'refat al-Ssahabe,book 6,page 3253:Abu Neim Espahani

Omdat al-Qari,book 2,page 93:Al-Eini



Seriously the amount of things Mohamed would be in jail for these days, he'd never get out - but we are supposed to respect the belief system he created?

I'll pass

Who said you respect anything?I just said do not try to comment on a matter like and EXPERT without having enough reliable information and evidence,yet you just do your own work miss.

I just want prove that your statements are not eligible.

[kayla...]

By all means pick the truths you are comfortable with

Yes men marrying younger isn't uncommon
Ask a girl if she wants to be married to someone 40 + years their age

[Judean Zealot]

#Badfaitharguing

[Left Now]

By all means pick the truths you are comfortable with

Yes men marrying younger isn't uncommon
Ask a girl if she wants to be married to someone 40 + years their age


Right now yes,be comfortable to use 21th century standards for a 7th century matter.By the way as I said MOST sources approve that.Also nearly all sources approve that Aisha herself was fine with the marriage which also shows that she knew what she is doing since Muhammad asked to speak with Aisha herself about Marriage when she was mature enough,since marriage without complete approval of both groom and bride is not considered legal under Islamic Jurisprudence.

But seriously,who really cares what you are more comfortable with to believe?The only thing that I am emphasizing on is not to try comment on a matter which you do not have enough information about like you are an expert.Your sources of information are merely a few biased sites and media,not any reliable educated sources.Actually you are acting exactly like the same people with extreme view here,just referring to sources that you have been in their range.

Anyway,as I said feel free to believe anything you want.Your opinion,your logic and I respect that.Just do not try to force your own views on others with nearly zero evidence.

#Badfaitharguing

?

[Porpoise101]

By all means pick the truths you are comfortable with

Yes men marrying younger isn't uncommon
Ask a girl if she wants to be married to someone 40 + years their age
Are you trolling?

[phuckphace]

kayla's avatar needs more hijab

[kayla...]

kayla's avatar needs more hijab

lol
No woman does

[kayla...]

Right now yes,be comfortable to use 21th century standards for a 7th century matter.By the way as I said MOST sources approve that.Also nearly all sources approve that Aisha herself was fine with the marriage which also shows that she knew what she is doing since Muhammad asked to speak with Aisha herself about Marriage when she was mature enough,since marriage without complete approval of both groom and bride is not considered legal under Islamic Jurisprudence.

But seriously,who really cares what you are more comfortable with to believe?The only thing that I am emphasizing on is not to try comment on a matter which you do not have enough information about like you are an expert.Your sources of information are merely a few biased sites and media,not any reliable educated sources.Actually you are acting exactly like the same people with extreme view here,just referring to sources that you have been in their range.

Anyway,as I said feel free to believe anything you want.Your opinion,your logic and I respect that.Just do not try to force your own views on others with nearly zero evidence.



?
Ahhh the "it was a different time" defence
A child's vagina and a middle aged (elderly by that time period if we are going there) mans penis do not belong

A holy man should be timeless
He'd be in jail for all kinds of reasons
Or a lunatic asylum

[Left Now]

Ahhh the "it was a different time" defence
A child's vagina and a middle aged (elderly by that time period if we are going there) mans penis do not belong

Oh such a good thing you said a child while I can easily prove that she was more than 15 when married.You just refer to things which you have heard from some petty Imams and twisted Muslims in your country,which hundred of times I have said that it seems something is wrong with many Muslims in Europe and some other Western countries,I refer to historical and theological sources for my claims.Seriously you have posted about 3 pages without even once referring to an actual evidence!

A 15 year old now is considered a child.You right now see a 15 year old boy and girl as childs;in those times a 15 year old boy was a military commander or even a governor and a 15 year old was a woman ready to marry and even get into difficult governmental positions like queens and advisors,or even being a merchant.You deny this?

Also I said Muhammad used to fast for long times that required him not to have sexual relations for long periods of time Judean Zealot can confirm this matter about fasting,and since from about 365 days of a year without war he would fast 6/10 of it,he did not have enough time to think about "V & P" matters as much as you can and have time to waste.He was a ruler and ask any historian and they will tell he was a good one;he did not have a lot of time to think about his own desires while his mind was also busied with Byzantines right at the borders of territories under his rule,people of Mecca facing food shortage,Yemen and Taef facing draught,Fifth Taxes being collected properly and be given fairly to families in needs,many houses including his own require repairs and ...

You surely see governing as living in a place like palace,eat best foods and fruits available,having the most salary as the head of the government and living in all welfare;few rulers are exceptions in history and Muhammad is one of them.

Your best claim for this is because he married a woman about 30 younger than himself,while history proves that marriages in 7th Arabia and Middle East and even Far East and Europe were not just a matter of "Sexual Intercourse",they were means for noting a man to provide protection and welfare for a woman,which was also a reason for two factions which would share grooms and brides with each others strengthen their relations.Deny it if you really can.I would rain you with all articles,all books and all historical references available to put you on your place ma'am!





A holy man should be timeless
He'd be in jail for all kinds of reasons
Or a lunatic asylum


Many things which also would put many other historical characters into jail,many of them praised throughout history.As I said comparing a matter related to 7th century with standards of 21th century just show you ignorance,and insisting that it does not matter just show how much you lack general information.Biologically,socially and even economically ladies in 7th century Middle East would have married in young ages because difficult conditions of life,heat and special foods would decrease the age of being capable of giving birth,the thing which might not be of too much importance for many ladies today,but was mentally quite important for ladies those days.

So Muhammad did not do any irregular thing and even an illogical thing marrying a young woman in her 15th at least (I proved that most sources agree with this).He would even go against usual tradition of both Europe and Middle East that time and asked the bride herself if she would agree.In no way you can prove that his marriage with Aisha was based on Sexual things.And if you once again refer to this certain matter,I would demand to see evidences.


kayla's avatar needs more hijab

No,her method of debating needs some serious reforms.In another language,who cares?You?Me?Literally none of our businesses respectfully.

[kayla...]

<yawn>
When the majority of info says she was a preteen you'll forgive me for thinking you are choosing to believe what's convenient

[Left Now]

<yawn>
When the majority of info says she was a preteen you'll forgive me for thinking you are choosing to believe what's convenient

Ah did I see an evidence here?PROVE IT.Give me references that can solve her age gap with her elder sister in first year after migration mathematically.Seriously you think it is a simple matter to say something related to history and then ZART!!!!!You can get away with it?

I introduced two sources.If you want I can introduce more with their certain sentences and English translations.How many can you offer except some brags and execuses that some petty Imams have said in your country?If this is also the way that you heard "Kill them where you find them!",then I recommend you to withdraw from debating forever.Since seriously debating is not a place for such execuses and immature discussions.


Plus+I have actual sources here,not just some internet articles and short ebooks.

[Porpoise101]

Ah did I see an evidence here?PROVE IT.Give me references that can solve her age gap with her elder sister in first year after migration mathematically.Seriously you think it is a simple matter to say something related to history and then ZART!!!!!You can get away with it?

I introduced two sources.If you want I can introduce more with their certain sentences and English translations.How many can you offer except some brags and execuses that some petty Imams have said in your country?If this is also the way that you heard "Kill them where you find them!",then I recommend you to withdraw from debating forever.Since seriously debating is not a place for such execuses and immature discussions.


Plus+I have actual sources here,not just some internet articles and short ebooks.
Don't argue she is probably a troll or if she isn't, extremely close-minded

[Left Now]

Porpoise101,I personally do not believe she is someone with bad intentions,but her attitude is just seriously and heavily influenced by the kind of atmosphere she is living in,exactly like myself 4 years ago,however in a more tolerant way.

Not to forget I also feel that many Muslims in Europe and US are in many ways irregular.

[Stronk Serb]

No not really, was it a big deal?
Kind of before my time.
Don't have a high opinion of Iran and its islamic government
Executing teenagers for being gay or just experimenting
Executing girls who were raped for adultery- especially if they fought back
That the execution age for girls is much younger than boys because "they should know better"
The public nature of execution too.
islam is a misogynistic belief system as it is, Iran seems to take it up a notch
Spare me the 'we respect women more than other cultures' nonsense, it's sad old joke that no one cares for

The parameters you entered for clay called "Iran" does not match database. You will be redirected to clay called "Saudi Arabia" because it has all specified parameters. *beep*


Why does everyone talk (unbased) shit about Iran but not talk shit (that is actually true) about Saudi Arabia. I mean, they share the first place with North Korea for human rights violations. Must be the oil.

[Left Now]

Stronk Serb,she was talking to me and this is why she refered to Iran.

[Stronk Serb]

Stronk Serb,she was talking to me and this is why she refered to Iran.

Yeah but such unfounded claims... sheesh.

[Left Now]

Stronk Serb,that is all I say.The problem is actually we have many laws like,this which there is near zero chance for them to be executed,but still the laws themselves can make misunderstandings.

Hopefully,later they will also be removed.

[Porpoise101]

The parameters you entered for clay called "Iran" does not match database. You will be redirected to clay called "Saudi Arabia" because it has all specified parameters. *beep*


Why does everyone talk (unbased) shit about Iran but not talk shit (that is actually true) about Saudi Arabia. I mean, they share the first place with North Korea for human rights violations. Must be the oil.
Yeah that is why I'm happy about this new deal because I don't like the house of Saud at all. In the US I'd rather be aligned with Lebanon and Iran than Israel and Saudi Arabia.

[Stronk Serb]

Yeah that is why I'm happy about this new deal because I don't like the house of Saud at all. In the US I'd rather be aligned with Lebanon and Iran than Israel and Saudi Arabia.

Well, west should outfit a crusade or a kebab removal unit for taking out the Sauds.

[Stronk Serb]

Stronk Serb,that is all I say.The problem is actually we have many laws like,this which there is near zero chance for them to be executed,but still the laws themselves can make misunderstandings.

Hopefully,later they will also be removed.

When I see Iran, I see a country that doesn't totally ruin the lives of everyoneliving in it. *cough* *cough* Sauds *cough* *cough*

[hesaidhesaid]

WHAT KIND OF DENMARK DO YOU WANT, FAM?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3235062/Blonde-Danish-teenager-15-murdered-mother-kitchen-knife-watching-ISIS-videos-beheading-British-hostages-online.html

"Blonde Danish teenager, 15, murdered her mother with a kitchen knife after watching ISIS videos of the beheading of British hostages online"



"It's a religion of peace!," they said. "We're not terrorists!," they said.

The joys of multiculturalism and Islam :)

Europe's dun goof'd. Consequences will never be the same...

CRASHING THIS CONTINENT... WITH NO SURVIVORS!

And again we see the media's favourite habit- putting sad stories on the front page just because we want to hear about it. How sad...and in this case, how savage tpo.