The European Refugee Crisis

[Sir Suomi]

After a photo of a young Syrian boy who drowned was published, social media has been in an uproar and has demanded European countries allow Islamic refugees to seek asylum in Europe. Ignoring the pleas from the country of Hungary, which has been desperately trying to hold back the massive waves of immigrants, countries like Germany, France, and the U.K have agreed to allow asylum for hundreds of thousands of people. Germany itself stated it would allow over 800,000 people to reside within it's borders. This is beginning to cause strife among the native populations of these European countries, who are demanding that the migrants to not be allowed into the countries.

My question here is what is your opinions on this?

I'll keep mine brief. While I sympathize for the migrants, most of which are simply seeking to flee from their war torn countries, I don't think Europe should allow them in. To put it simply, Europe, with it's socialist economic policies, can simply not afford to allow them in, especially when her own people are struggling as it is. Another point is that in many areas these Islamic migrants have caused spikes in violent crime and have created areas of cities that no native European can enter without threat of violence. In my opinion, it should be the fellow Middle-Eastern countries that accept these refugees. Or, better yet, maybe instead of fleeing their countries, the people could instead fight to end the ongoing conflicts in their native countries.

[Porpoise101]

I think the world should help out be it taking in a few thousand refugees or donating to UNICEF and other organizations. The Gulf States need to help out Turkey and Lebanon because those two countries need help with supporting refugees. Honestly Europe has a gentrification issue so once the war is over and people start heading back, those refugees will start to be productive to society in a generation.

[Daniella98]

A danish man spat on some refugees coming to Denmark and yelled "Go home".
Its so shamy. Im ashamed for being danish when we have such idiots here.

[tonymontana99]

Allow the educated refugees to come in (engineers, scientists, lawyers, etc.) -- the ones with skills -- and either turn down the rest or put them in temporary segregation camps with decent conditions and feed them well so they don't chimp out while they're there. Assist Russia and Assad in fighting ISIS, and after they're gone make Assad have an "accident", liberate the people and split Syria like they did with Germany until they have a running democracy. Either way all of them should be ID'd and kept under constant surveillance in case there's terrorists between them and prevent them from starting their shit over in the countries where they are held up in. Merkel is hellbent on destroying Europe for some reason.

Also, implying ISIS isn't a proxy for the CIA and UN to dissolve Europe's homogeneous demographics, plunge the continent in a religious war, trigger World War 3 and then after most of the population has been wiped out the UN steps in as the sole government of the world and the New World Order begins.

[Porpoise101]

Allow the educated refugees to come in (engineers, scientists, lawyers, etc. -- the ones with skills -- and either turn down the rest or put them in temporary segregation camps with decent conditions and well-fed so they don't chimp out while they're there, and finally assist Russia and Assad in fighting ISIS, and after they're gone make Assad have an "accident", liberate the people and split Syria like they did with Germany until they have a running democracy. Either way all of them should be ID'd and kept under constant surveillance in case there's terrorists between them and prevent them from starting their shit over in the countries where they are held up in.

Also, implying ISIS isn't a proxy for the CIA and UN to dissolve Europe's homogeneous demographics, plunge the continent in a religious war, trigger World War 3 and then after most of the population has been wiped out the UN steps in as the sole government of the world and the New World Order begins.
I think a lot of the wealthy and educated people have left Syria if they aren't political elites. One of my friends who came from Syria has two doctors for his parents, and his cousins are in Britain.

[Xawarus]

Well, that question is not easy to answer.

First of all: I hate this "Welcome refugees" which is nearly everyone shouting right now. We should allow them to come here, but ONLY if:
- They are really refugees
- They have to accept OUR rules and stop bitching around like "I don't want to stay in x, I want to go to y"... I hate that. You are a refugee, you should be satisfied with everything you get. Or you aren't a refugee.
- They go back if it gets better in their home Country

Europe can't take like 5 Million refugees and keep them.

[Left Now]

Europe can't take like 5 Million refugees and keep them.

Neither Europe nor anywhere else.

[Xawarus]

Actually I hope that Putin can fight the IS since the US don't really do something. It would be much nicer if the syrians don't have to be refugees - I don't wish that to anyone.

[Porpoise101]

Actually I hope that Putin can fight the IS since the US don't really do something. It would be much nicer if the syrians don't have to be refugees - I don't wish that to anyone.
Yes that is the ideal situation

[Left Now]

Actually I hope that Putin can fight the IS since the US don't really do something. It would be much nicer if the syrians don't have to be refugees - I don't wish that to anyone.

ISIS has become an ideology.It will never get destroyed anymore,no matter how much firepower you bring.Unless it will be proved that the basics of their beliefs are not what they claim them to be,they spawn.

[Uniquemind]

It's a problem.

Morally you want to accept them in on grounds of sympathy, and empathy.

But at the same time they bring nothing human society values to wherever they're entering in from.

This is exactly why I think all citizens of still thriving stable countries really need to value social stability and need to value coming together and compromising rather than all this blustering talk about succession and division.


If citizens don't vote smart, research and understand science and academia as a whole, one day you'll find that your country shaped policy because of emotion alone, and it'll collapse.

Then you'll be a refugee, which unfortunately seems as if God has to take them into his kingdom since there's a large portion nobody wants and is hardening their hearts towards.

[Desuetude]

If they're seeking refuge from war or other hardships then of course we should offer them assistance. It's economic refugees that are the problem and the reason people are wary about refugees in general. It really pisses me off when I see kids like "they're going to ruin the country", if they spread out everywhere then you won't even notice that there are so many. We, luckily, have the safety and comfort of our countries and we should aid those that don't.

[Stronk Serb]

Serbia had a ton refugees when we, the Serbs were expelled during the nineties from Bosnia, Kosovo and Croatia. Yes, show them sympathy, help them get to their destinations but at the same time show them that they are just guests and can be expelled at a moment's notice if they break household rules (in this case of host country). If they want and expect royal treatment, they aren't really refugees.

[Miserabilia]

Economicaly it's not bad to have new immigrants especialy in western countries with a graying population that can't support it's own elderly through socialistic healthcare; having new immigrants as young people really helps with the economy.
These people are here for a reason; keeping them out is like closing your eyes, they're still going to try to get in and otherwise they are stuck.
Simply saying "no" isn't even an option.

Also I'm pretty sick of the attitudes I keep coming across of "the fugitives"! Though I aggree media portraying them only as crying families crawling through fences to freedom is misleading as well, I hate how more extreme right wing people generalize them into some kind of crazy evil mass. These people have motivies, they aren't here to cause mischief they're here for their own safety. How can we complain about politics and culture in middle east and africa and then refuse people there to get out and come here? That's hypocricy.

[Porpoise101]

ISIS has become an ideology.It will never get destroyed anymore,no matter how much firepower you bring.Unless it will be proved that the basics of their beliefs are not what they claim them to be,they spawn.
^^^
Why the US supporting Saudi Arabia is an issue

[Judean Zealot]

^^^
Why the US supporting Saudi Arabia is an issue

I would say because the profits were considered stronger.

[tonymontana99]

Actually I hope that Putin can fight the IS since the US don't really do something. It would be much nicer if the syrians don't have to be refugees - I don't wish that to anyone.

The only ones fighting for us are Putin and Assad.

[Vlerchan]

To put it simply, Europe, with it's socialist economic policies, can simply not afford to allow them in, especially when her own people are struggling as it is.
The demographic profile of the refugees will be them net contributors to the European welfare state.

The problem, is that the influx of refugees constitutes a temporary supply shock on housing and public services. Taking Ireland as an example, I don't feel that public services or housing are elastic enough to afford a large influx. I do think that this can be offset though with the state working in co-operation with religious orders - and that's what should happen. Each parish should take on one family. This also offsets the problem of them congregating in ethnic enclaves and allows us to better keep track.

What Europe is doing now isn't a long-term solution regardless of whether the above is well received or not.

[dzoni]

In honestly blame the NATO for all of this. They are the ones that initialized all those operations in the Middle East and Africa.

I returned yesterday from Budapest and there the situation is pretty calm, only place you can find refugees is on the main train station and there a shit storm just because of the way Magyars (Hungarians) are treating the refugees. Which is very very very inhumane.

I also understand these people running away from the danger, hell I'd probably do the same.

My solution would be to make a deal with the dear US and Russia to take a certain amount of 'migrants. After all, they are the ones that started this mess in the first place.


Now listen you, people of NATO. You’re bombing a wall which stood in the way of African migration to Europe, and in the way of Al-Qaeda terrorists. This wall was Libya. You‘re breaking it. You’re idiots, and you will burn in Hell for thousands of migrants from Africa and for supporting Al-Qaeda. It will be so. I never lie. And I do not lie now.

- Muammar Gaddafi


I'm not pro NATO nor pro Russia or whatever, I am pro life. But this seems very ironic.

[Porpoise101]

The only ones fighting for us are Putin and Assad.
And Kurds, Hezbollah, and Turkey, no?

[Left Now]

And Kurds, Hezbollah, and Turkey, no?

Kurds and Hezbollah are fighting for themselves,although they are also indirectly helping others.

Turkey....well I don't think so.

[Porpoise101]

Kurds and Hezbollah are fighting for themselves,although they are also indirectly helping others.

Turkey....well I don't think so.
I think the (nearly nonexistent) Lebanese military is working with Hezbollah so it's not totally in self interest I guess. And Turkey is at least taking in lots of refugees so that is something if not fighting.

[Left Now]

I think the (nearly nonexistent) Lebanese military is working with Hezbollah so it's not totally in self interest I guess. And Turkey is at least taking in lots of refugees so that is something if not fighting.

And at the same time tunnels Saudi and Gulf Emirates financial and military aids to al-Qaeda linked groups and FSA,weakening Syrians and Kurds fronts against ISIS by engaging in armed struggles with them,sometimes shelling and bombing Kurdish civil areas,making deals with al-Qaeda linked groups....

[USMC276]

theres no reason to let just any of them in. educated ones should be allowed. what i don't understand is why they have to go to Europe when they can go somewhere else in the middle east where they share similar values.

a lot of these "refugees" are causing issues and only the descent educated ones should be allowed in. immigrants are supposed to improve nations, not make them worse

[tonymontana99]

And Kurds, Hezbollah, and Turkey, no?

Yeah, sure

[phuckphace]

what i don't understand is why they have to go to Europe when they can go somewhere else in the middle east where they share similar values.

http://i.imgur.com/fKs3ukx.jpg

[Stronk Serb]

image (http://i.imgur.com/fKs3ukx.jpg)

Did I just smell euromonies? Gib gib gib gib!

[tonymontana99]

what i don't understand is why they have to go to Europe when they can go somewhere else in the middle east where they share similar values.

a lot of these "refugees" are causing issues and only the descent educated ones should be allowed in. immigrants are supposed to improve nations, not make them worse

gibs me dat

[USMC276]

image (http://i.imgur.com/fKs3ukx.jpg)

yeah, where else are you going to milk the system?

80% of muslims live off welfare in the west, so no surprise these refugees want to come to Europe so they can mooch off the guaranteed moola by the gov't

[tonymontana99]

yeah, where else are you going to milk the system?

80% of muslims live off welfare in the west, so no surprise these refugees want to come to Europe so they can mooch off the guaranteed moola by the gov't

We'll always have Asia...

[Porpoise101]

yeah, where else are you going to milk the system?

80% of muslims live off welfare in the west, so no surprise these refugees want to come to Europe so they can mooch off the guaranteed moola by the gov't
Ok I decided to check that fact and I found one statistic that said that 80% of Turks in Germany have some sort of welfare benefit. But I could not find the actual study and it has shown up on neo Nazi sites like storefront and such. So, no, we don't know for sure if 80% of Muslims live off of welfare in the West as we only (maybe) know about the Turks in Germany.

The least biased source (still super right wing though): https://muslimstatistics.wordpress.com/2014/06/07/80-of-turkish-muslim-settlers-in-germany-live-off-welfare/

[phuckphace]

So, no, we don't know for sure if 80% of Muslims live off of welfare in the West as we only (maybe) know about the Turks in Germany.]

lol we don't know for sure, statistics also say some bears shit in the woods

really though the point is the West is voluntarily flooding itself with poors who come from shitty Third World countries that are shitty and Third World because they are populated by other inept Third Worlders. we're kidding ourselves into believing there's sparkling potential to be unlocked with the proper amount of handouts, when the overwhelming majority of them will remain clustered at the bottom of the scale and will be the first to abandon the ship when it begins sinking. Immigration 2.0 is all about that cash and nothing but that cash. if there's no cash, there's no immigration.

see, when I'm perusing Wikitravel for ideas on where to move to if SHTF, countries like Lithuania pop up on my radar - they're quiet, homogeneous (racist) and appealing for many reasons other than money (min wage = $2/hr). but for the choosy migrant, nothing less than the phattest stacks peeled off by Merkel herself will do.

[Left Now]

Ok I decided to check that fact and I found one statistic that said that 80% of Turks in Germany have some sort of welfare benefit. But I could not find the actual study and it has shown up on neo Nazi sites like storefront and such. So, no, we don't know for sure if 80% of Muslims live off of welfare in the West as we only (maybe) know about the Turks in Germany.

The least biased source (still super right wing though): https://muslimstatistics.wordpress.com/2014/06/07/80-of-turkish-muslim-settlers-in-germany-live-off-welfare/

Turks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What about Kurds?

[Porpoise101]

lol we don't know for sure, statistics also say some bears shit in the woods

really though the point is the West is voluntarily flooding itself with poors who come from shitty Third World countries that are shitty and Third World because they are populated by other inept Third Worlders. we're kidding ourselves into believing there's sparkling potential to be unlocked with the proper amount of handouts, when the overwhelming majority of them will remain clustered at the bottom of the scale and will be the first to abandon the ship when it begins sinking. Immigration 2.0 is all about that cash and nothing but that cash. if there's no cash, there's no immigration.

see, when I'm perusing Wikitravel for ideas on where to move to if SHTF, countries like Lithuania pop up on my radar - they're quiet, homogeneous (racist) and appealing for many reasons other than money (min wage = $2/hr). but for the choosy migrant, nothing less than the phattest stacks peeled off by Merkel herself will do.
Obviously immigrants are using up welfare monies but it also matters how much they are putting into the system. Check this out:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/11259083/German-immigrants-bring-in-18bn-to-the-economy.html

The main issue is that they don't become conventional members of society. They stay at the bottom because they cannot escape their isolated communities. I know that in France you have to be a child of a French citizen and since mixed race marriages are not that common, you have a disenfranchised community without power who doesn't bother to deal with the mainstream culture. Maybe citizenship is different in other European countries but it is really prohibitive to assimilation.

[USMC276]

Ok I decided to check that fact and I found one statistic that said that 80% of Turks in Germany have some sort of welfare benefit. But I could not find the actual study and it has shown up on neo Nazi sites like storefront and such. So, no, we don't know for sure if 80% of Muslims live off of welfare in the West as we only (maybe) know about the Turks in Germany.

The least biased source (still super right wing though): https://muslimstatistics.wordpress.com/2014/06/07/80-of-turkish-muslim-settlers-in-germany-live-off-welfare/
i found a few articles that while they didn't provide an exact percentage, did mention the problems these muslim immigrants are causing in the way of taking too much welfare, and causing crimes.

Sweden is a PRIME example of how letting these "people" in these countries causes chaos. Countries are made by culture, borders, and language. all 3 of these categories are fading away because politically correct Europeons are handing over their countries like slices of pie.

Obviously immigrants are using up welfare monies but it also matters how much they are putting into the system. Check this out:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/11259083/German-immigrants-bring-in-18bn-to-the-economy.html

The main issue is that they don't become conventional members of society. They stay at the bottom because they cannot escape their isolated communities. I know that in France you have to be a child of a French citizen and since mixed race marriages are not that common, you have a disenfranchised community without power who doesn't bother to deal with the mainstream culture. Maybe citizenship is different in other European countries but it is really prohibitive to assimilation.

http://swedenreport.org/2015/02/26/when-open-hearts-lead-to-ruin/

the cost of immigrants in Sweden

Double post merged. ~Microcosm

[tonymontana99]

Guys, let them in. Let's let them all in. We'll sacrifice Europe for the rest of the world. When they impose Sharia law, demolish chapels and demand a Caliphat, we'll bomb the Hell out of them. Then the rest of the world will realize what kind of disease these people are. Today they're demaning food and safety, tomorrow they'll be demanding Islamification.

[USMC276]

Guys, let them in. Let's let them all in. We'll sacrifice Europe for the rest of the world. When they impose Sharia law, demolish chapels and demand a Caliphat, we'll bomb the Hell out of them. Then the rest of the world will realize what kind of disease these people are. Today they're demaning food and safety, tomorrow they'll be demanding Islamification.

actually a lot of them were denying food and necessities because the Red Cross boxes had CROSSES on them.

others just threw it on the floor because they're fucking animals

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbTSdUdQeLY

[Porpoise101]

actually a lot of them were denying food and necessities because the Red Cross boxes had CROSSES on them.

others just threw it on the floor because they're fucking animals

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbTSdUdQeLY
That's why they made Red Crescent. Where are those guys anyways?

[Vlerchan]

It's almost like I never post here.

---

[Judean Zealot]

That's why they made Red Crescent. Where are those guys anyways?

In Israel it's Magen David Adom, or Red Shield of David.

:)

[Stronk Serb]

That's why they made Red Crescent. Where are those guys anyways?

I think that shows they aren't hungry as they claim, or just plain stupid.

[phuckphace]

It's almost like I never post here.

he blinded me with SCIENCE!

[Magus]

A danish man spat on some refugees coming to Denmark and yelled "Go home".
Its so shamy. Im ashamed for being danish when we have such idiots here.

Hm. Thought you guys were hardcore anti-Middle-Eastern of what happened with Jyllands-Posten.

[Katie96xox]

Hmm... the photo of a dead syrian boy on a beach whose family had been living safely in the peaceful turkey where his dad had a job but also ran an illegal people smuggling business. The dead syrian boy on a beach whose family left their home in a non-war torn country and squeezed onto an overcrowded boat so his dad could get better teeth. The dead syrian boy whose father has refused offers of citizenship from canada and hungary because germany has the easiest health care system for him to take advantage of. The dead syrian boy whose body was moved and rearranged on the beach to make for a better photo opportunity.

That dead Syrian boy? This is exactly the reason we need to stop letting in anyone who claims to be a refugee willy-nilly. Because you get all these people seeking a better life in western countries so they jump on an overcrowded boat with holes in it and then stuff like that happens.

In Australia we had a government who opened up the borders for six years and 1,000 people drowned at see illegally trying to get here while thousands and thousands more were let in with open arms, one of whom staged our nation's first Muslim terror attack, others of whom are becoming serial rapist and murderers. Then we had a change in government and they closed up the borders and in a matter of weeks the boats stopped coming and in two years we've had 0 drownings at sea.

It is not exactly a coincidence that all these so-called refugees are leaving Syria, heading through multiple peaceful countries where they will be safe from persecution, but rejecting offers of settlement there and continuing on to Germany because they have the best welfare. Cut off the welfare and the number of people fleeing the middle east will more than halve.

And 72 per cent of them are young, single men who are leaving their women and children behind on their journey for welfare. These aren't the types of people I'd be letting into my country any time soon.

Admittedly, this is the biggest refugee crisis in 70 years so we do need to do something. In Australia our government is taking in 10,000 refugees, giving preference to Christian families. I am sure the non-war torn Muslim countries in the Middle East like Saudi Arabia will be more than happy to welcome in their Muslim brothers fleeing persecution (*insert sarcasm*). And as for those who disregard their families lives so they can seek out the best welfare payments, like the father of the boy in the photo, I'm not so worried about them. A lot of these so-called refugees will bring their trouble with them and that's the last thing we want.

[Daniella98]

Hm. Thought you guys were hardcore anti-Middle-Eastern of what happened with Jyllands-Posten.

Yeah you see because of a few idiots who shout out loud, it seems like all danes agree. We dont and most of us like foreighners and we have many of them here and it works.
JyllandsPostens drawings was kind of a marketing scoop. They went from an ordinary paper to this. However that was in expence of getting our flag burned and an entire race hating us everyone.

[Left Now]

A danish man spat on some refugees coming to Denmark and yelled "Go home".
Its so shamy. Im ashamed for being danish when we have such idiots here.

One man has done this,not a whole nation.Why should you be ashamed of what you have not done?

[Daniella98]

One man has done this,not a whole nation.Why should you be ashamed of what you have not done?

Cause many people seem to think what one says is the general oppinion.
After the Muhammed drawings incident our flag was burned and there was a demand for an apollogy from our primeminister, even though he had absolutely nothing to do with it.
What one paper did reflected on all of us and people think we all hate foreighners because one man did this.

[Vlerchan]

others just threw it on the floor because they're fucking animals

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbTSdUdQeLY
Did anyone actually watch the video?

Like why bother debating when people are willing to twist that into a showcase of immigrants being a heap of ungrateful monsters.

[Sir Suomi]

Cause many people seem to think what one says is the general oppinion.
After the Muhammed drawings incident our flag was burned and there was a demand for an apollogy from our primeminister, even though he had absolutely nothing to do with it.
What one paper did reflected on all of us and people think we all hate foreighners because one man did this.

I think it's quite ridiculous for them to get that upset however over a simple drawing. While I understand that the vast majority of those who follow the religion of Islam are not like this, it still makes me shudder to think that someone could wholeheartedly believe killing others is a good response to a drawing of your god.

Like shit using the same logic Christians should feel it necessary to begin a crusade on Saudi Arabia. Wait...Maybe that's not a bad idea...

https://i.warosu.org/data/tg/img/0318/88/1399149129924.png

Guess it's time to convert to Catholicism.

[Stronk Serb]

I think it's quite ridiculous for them to get that upset however over a simple drawing. While I understand that the vast majority of those who follow the religion of Islam are not like this, it still makes me shudder to think that someone could wholeheartedly believe killing others is a good response to a drawing of your god.

Like shit using the same logic Christians should feel it necessary to begin a crusade on Saudi Arabia. Wait...Maybe that's not a bad idea...

image (https://i.warosu.org/data/tg/img/0318/88/1399149129924.png)

Guess it's time to convert to Catholicism.

Deus vult!

[tonymontana99]

A danish man spat on some refugees coming to Denmark and yelled "Go home".
Its so shamy. Im ashamed for being danish when we have such idiots here.

The OP said there are areas where Europeans cannot enter because of being violently mistreated by Muslims and you only care about one of your fellow countryman spitting on a "refugee"? Please, get your head out of your arse.

[Miserabilia]

by Muslims

That's like saying "christians" did the norway 2011 terrorist attacks.
Remember you're talking about very specific people here (and a very small percentage of the people too) not a religion they belong too which also belongs to milions of others around the world.

[Porpoise101]

The OP said there are areas where Europeans cannot enter because of being violently mistreated by Muslims and you only care about one of your fellow countryman spitting on a "refugee"? Please, get your head out of your arse.
Here is a left leaning source on the myth of no go zones. To me it has a solid explanation.
http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/01/paris-mayor-to-sue-fox-over-no-go-zone-comments/384656/

[Sir Suomi]

The demographic profile of the refugees will be them net contributors to the European welfare state.



I forgot to mention this a while back. Care to explain your point here?

[sqishy]

I have an opinion on this all, but I'll just say that I find it not great at all when it takes the image of a drowned toddler to make people/governments/society in general wake up and actually attempt to do something (or even properly talk) about it. A proper awareness of socio-political crises should not be triggered by a feeling of sympathy; the trigger should be the simple presence of the said crisis. Yet again the deserved reaction is only got when it's too late.

[Porpoise101]

I have an opinion on this all, but I'll just say that I find it not great at all when it takes the image of a drowned toddler to make people/governments/society in general wake up and actually attempt to do something (or even properly talk) about it. A proper awareness of socio-political crises should not be triggered by a feeling of sympathy; the trigger should be the simple presence of the said crisis. Yet again the deserved reaction is only got when it's too late.
Sadly, people are not totally rational, but a mixture between rational and emotional. I guess we have to live with that as long as we are human

[sqishy]

Sadly, people are not totally rational, but a mixture between rational and emotional. I guess we have to live with that as long as we are human

I agree; I do accept that this is the case, even though I don't like it. Emotions can't be equated to logic and in my opinion without either we are not human, but in the case of politics, it should really be more about conscious thought than impulsive sympathy and such. It is like an effective double standard exists (independent to so many other actual double standards that exist in socio-eco-politics).

[Phoenix718]

I think that they should be allowed in. European countries have strong economies when compared to the global average. Studies have shown that migrants don't live off of benefits and they will work/contribute to the economy. Many people are criticizing the fact that by the time they get to Bulgaria, they are far enough from the war. But these migrants are being walled up in camps, so they must move on and find a place where they can get a job, etc.

[Jean Poutine]

Just wondering if anyone else caught the change in terminology lately.

They never were immigrants because in political parlance, that implies a certain legal status (or the legal process of obtaining the status), they're not refugees anymore because that also implies a certain legal status (or the legal process of obtaining it), so now they're migrants, a much more vague term.

It's a tacit recognition by the media that most people involved in this population movement aren't refugees at all and wouldn't be able to claim this status. I've been following discussions on the issue, and people, not just the media, but everyone, have changed tacks completely. Suddenly everyone has switched words but they've all kept the same arguments as if we were still dealing with real refugees, pro- like anti-. We're still talking in terms of handouts and culture and muh feelz and poor oppressed Third Worlders. Nobody seems to notice that the change in terminology also completely changes the debate. People are talking like all these words are interchangeable. However, they mean completely different things.

We're no longer talking about a bunch of people fleeing war-torn regions, we're talking about a mass migration from many areas around the globe and into the West, and these people are definitely not just fleeing from violence. In fact, the change in terminology came along precisely because it is no longer possible to attribute one single driving motivation to the group.

In the first case (genuine refugees), accepting these people could still be justified, I mean I'd be the first to say "no" but I would still understand why people argue for their admission. Since the method to obtain refugee status is to travel to a foreign country and demand it on arrival, procedure is still being followed, just in huge numbers.

However, in the second case it's totally different. The system to admit what the media now calls "migrants" is merely the regular immigration system where all the steps are done in one's country of origin. This is because refugee status is only obtainable if one is in real danger, so it makes sense to leave and then seek a new home. Economic immigrants are in no such danger and can wait while the host country decides if it wants them or not. That said, if we allow all these "migrants" to settle in the West then this means that our immigration laws are de facto worthless as the procedure is not being followed and those who infringe it are not being prosecuted. There is a term for this and the term is decriminalization. European immigration statute violations are being decriminalized. Let what that means sink in for a second. If you don't get it, I'll explain it to you. If you don't think that's scary, you have much bigger balls than I do : there's a huge ocean separating me from this shit and I think it's scary.

Indeed, why bother immigrating the legal way? You can just show up on a boat or skip over a land border in the night. Just "lose" your identity papers and you can get in no matter what, even if you're the worst kind of human trash. You can get in even if you have no money and can't support yourself. In fact, the State will support you! The immigration process has been KO'd, turned on its head, neutralized. It's useless now. If I were an European, I would lose sleep at night thinking about what kind of person exactly Merkel brought into my country. There is really no way of knowing for sure. Already they've intercepted guns and bullets and people trying to radicalize other migrants. Imagine all that they didn't catch.

It doesn't matter if every single one of these migrants were to find a job and become useful members of society (they will not), because by accepting and encouraging this precedent Europe's leaders have taken a huge shit all over their immigration protocols and their borders. This is the real problem and it's worse than everything else about this crisis : worse than the rape epidemics springing all around Europe, worse than the changes in lifestyle for people in cities with a lot of these migrants, worse than the economic pressure they will apply on their hosts. The door is well and truly open and nothing short of "fuck off we're full" will close it. Nothing short of fences and walls and soldiers and a few shot or drowned migrants will stop that flow, and those that are in already are staying, full stop. Is the EU and its people ready to do this? Do they have the stomach for this? Because you can be sure that some vested interests will keep bombarding us and them with pictures of dead children if they do this. They will be called heartless and killers and a lot of mean names if they do this. Hungary is being slammed 24/7 and all they've done is build a shitty fence and tell their soldiers that they can gently block the way of people trying to cross it. Imagine if they were to do any more than that.

North America, Oceania and Britain (to a lesser extent) are lucky because we've got boatloads of water all around to protect us. This means our protocols are semi-proofed. I do not envy continental Europe for having to deal with this. What it does now will define it forever.

[Vlerchan]

It's a tacit recognition by the media that most people involved in this population movement aren't refugees at all and wouldn't be able to claim this status.
I hadn't noticed this at all so I decided to check. I took a random article from each site.

Irish Times, Centre-Right

Ireland needs a better way of dealing with incoming refugees and migrants and changes should be made to the existing system soon, President Michael D Higgins has said.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/president-calls-for-better-system-for-refugees-in-ireland-1.2368163

The use of 'and' is interesting. The use of refugee and migrants is interchangeable otherwise. There use is about the same.

Irish Independent, Centre-Right

Could the same thing happen again in Europe with the refugee crisis? Could a new Iron Curtain - a new demarcation line - already be drawn between Eastern and Western Europe? In 1945, the line was an ideological and military divide. This time, could it be ethnic, demographic and religious?

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/david-mcwilliams/attitudes-to-refugees-divide-europe-with-a-new-iron-curtain-31550248.html

In the same manner as the last article there's the use of 'and' again. There's also I quote 'refugees/migrants'.

Use is about the same and seems to be interchangeable. McWilliams refers to refugees in Turkish camps as 'migrants' too

Irish Examiner, Centrist

Hungary, which lies in the path of the largest migration wave Europe has seen since the Second World War, said it was seeking support to halt an influx from Croatia after sealing its border with Serbia by building a 3.5m-high steel fence.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/world/no-end-to-influx-of-refugees-says-un-355998.html

In this article the use of the word 'refugee' dwarves the use of the word 'migrant'.

The Guardian, Centre-Left to Centrist

Countries in south-east Europe have taken steps to soothe tensions in the region over the handling of the refugee crisis by relaxing strict border rules, according to reports.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/26/european-countries-at-heart-of-refugee-crisis-seek-to-ease-tensions

In all but one case the article makes reference to 'refugees' and not migrants. In the case it's used it's corrected inside the same sentence.

In all but one article linked as suggested reading it also makes use of the term 'refugees' as opposed to 'migrants'.

The Telegraph, Right Wing

Since the US invasion of Afghanistan in 2001 – long before the current migrant crisis – Athens has been one of Afghan refugees’ favourite destinations. But recently this community has been boosted with thousands of new migrants.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/11891467/Walking-with-migrants-the-diary-of-a-journey-from-Greece-to-Berlin.html

It would seem the term 'refugee' and 'migrant' are used about the same in each.

I'm going to go back one month or so now for both the Telegraph and Irish Times and check if there's been a change in rhetoric. What I'm going to do is search on their site for relevant articles and then open the first ones listed as being published on or before the 26/08.

Irish Times, Centre-Right

Three thousand migrants a day will pour into the Balkans trying to reach western Europe in the next few months, the United Nations has forecast.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/un-predicts-3-000-refugees-a-day-will-pass-through-balkans-1.2329113

It's about the same as previous.

The Telegraph - Right Wing

Europe is facing the world refugee crisis since the Second World War, the EU official in charge of migration said on Friday.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/11804195/Europe-faces-worst-refugee-crisis-since-Second-World-War.html

For the first time of all the articles the author here makes more use of migrant than refugee.

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Now, this is hardly scientific but I'm going to draw two conclusions.

There doesn't seem to be an increase in the use of the term 'migrant' in recent times. It seems to be that certain papers with the intention of de-legitimatising refugees, perhaps the Telegraph, were doing so from the get-go.

It seems to be in the case of the Irish centre-right paper an understanding that refugee and migrant were interchangeable. In the case of centrist papers the term refugee dominates - perhaps in recognition of the connotations.

Economic immigrants are in no such danger and can wait while the host country decides if it wants them or not. That said, if we allow all these "migrants" to settle in the West then this means that our immigration laws are de facto worthless as the procedure is not being followed and those who infringe it are not being prosecuted.
Has there been a case where someone has been identified as a non-refugee and then the state has preceded to grant them access? I'm not aware of such.

Edit., I guess I should add I understand where the point is coming from. De facto it would seem that European regulation on immigrants has been undermined. But I don't think it's a fair argument to make amongst the confusion and so on that's been central to the entire situation. I think we should give it time for the confusion to dissolve before making judgements about the effectiveness, or lack thereof, of European laws.

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I also might do US papers at a later date. But I have less of a knowledge of their direction since I don't read them.

Edit., I've also changed stances on the refugee crisis. Set-up camps and then provide the resources for the refugees to transform them into worthwhile social and economic spaces.