Hungary passes new laws to stem inflow of migrants

[Exocet]

Thank you Mr Orban for your efforts to protect Europe from an invasion of alien people,that threats our civilization,your efforts are really appreciated by any European that wants to see its culture,country preserved. Do not listen to these coward liberals and leftists hypocrites. Keep doing the good job sir. Wish we had a leader like you that acts and isnt just talking.. bla bla bla.
——————————
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/hungary-passes-laws-stem-inflow-migrants-114529531.html

[Porpoise101]

I wish America took in some of these people, especially those who helped out our soldiers in our wars. Since we created these problems it's only right for us Americans to step up to the plate.

[Stronk Serb]

I wish America took in some of these people, especially those who helped out our soldiers in our wars. Since we created these problems it's only right for us Americans to step up to the plate.

You never know which are ISIS sleeper cells. 90% of the ones passing here are military capable msles. A tad bit suspicious.

I wish we would start deporting them to Syria under government control.

[Exocet]

You never know which are ISIS sleeper cells. 90% of the ones passing here are military capable msles. A tad bit suspicious.

I wish we would start deporting them to Syria under government control.

Refugees used to be women and children,these days it looks like they are all angry strong men most likely going to cause some troubles in whatever nation theyll land in. They all look like thugs who are ready to rob you and rape your wife which probably arent unfamiliar with. Come with a family with few kids fine,but coming as groups of large disorganised men, it doesnt fcking work like that.
They have nothing to offer,we should worry about Europeans first,so unfair that almost nobody helps the poor Europeans,but when it comes to help aliens,everyone is here !
Im pretty sure many isis members are among these men,and accepting them would only bring more problems. When will the European open their eyes ? Orban is right,he doesnt want to see all Europe looking like Sweden. And by the way,it isnt an European,but a German problem. They will welcome 800.000 refugees this year and more the next.... they want to destruct their country and wants to bring every european nation in their fall by accepting their migrants.... im waiting to the day we will hang these liberal leftists hypocrites.

[Stronk Serb]

Refugees used to be women and children,these days it looks like they are all angry strong men most likely going to cause some troubles in whatever nation theyll land in. They all look like thugs who are ready to rob you and rape your wife which probably arent unfamiliar with. Come with a family with few kids fine,but coming as groups of large disorganised men, it doesnt fcking work like that.
They have nothing to offer,we should worry about Europeans first,so unfair that almost nobody helps the poor Europeans,but when it comes to help aliens,everyone is here !
Im pretty sure many isis members are among these men,and accepting them would only bring more problems. When will the European open their eyes ? Orban is right,he doesnt want to see all Europe looking like Sweden. And by the way,it isnt an European,but a German problem. They will welcome 800.000 refugees this year and more the next.... they want to destruct their country and wants to bring every european nation in their fall by accepting their migrants.... im waiting to the day we will hang these liberal leftists hypocrites.

About those who come with families, they can stay if they will respect the laws and customs. If not, they have nice sharia countries if they love the sharia laws so much. Now, if they enter illegaly, ship them back to wherever they came from. One guy our news interviewed said he flees Syria because he doesn't want to be recruited into Assad's army and then he goes on and on how we are shittier that pre-war Syria. If we are so shitty, grow a pair of balls and fight ISIS.

[Porpoise101]

You never know which are ISIS sleeper cells. 90% of the ones passing here are military capable msles. A tad bit suspicious.

I wish we would start deporting them to Syria under government control.
Well I mean I'm talking about people who helped us fight in Afghanistan and Iraq. Locals who helped out our troops there. We helped out locals in Vietnam by bringing them overseas to the US, now it is our moral obligation to bring in those who helped us again. If we don't, they will die from extremists and stuff.

[Exocet]

About those who come with families, they can stay if they will respect the laws and customs. If not, they have nice sharia countries if they love the sharia laws so much. Now, if they enter illegaly, ship them back to wherever they came from. One guy our news interviewed said he flees Syria because he doesn't want to be recruited into Assad's army and then he goes on and on how we are shittier that pre-war Syria. If we are so shitty, grow a pair of balls and fight ISIS.


We cannot help them,we dont have money,we have a 2 trillion€ debt and an unemployment rate at 10%,we have other priorities than helping economic migrants... why instead of going to infidel Europe they dont go to Qatar Saudi Arabia,UAE...

[Porpoise101]

We cannot help them,we dont have money,we have a 2 trillion€ debt and an unemployment rate at 10%,we have other priorities than helping economic migrants... why instead of going to infidel Europe they dont go to Qatar Saudi Arabia,UAE...
Ok this is a very personal issue for me as a few of my Indian cousins go to the UAE to work. The country is horrible. You have to risk getting deported constantly, prices are high, and the climate sucks. Because they work in software it is better off for them but for construction workers, it is hell. I would guess that a lot of these refugees are not very skilled either. If you are a low skill worker, you are more or less a debt slave. So no, those countries are not a good option unless you want the West to poke their noses in another middle eastern country.

What Hungary is doing now is putting a kink in a hose that is on full release. Sooner or later the hose will explode. That is why it is more important to stop the wars and get the region under control. Even supporting the Middle Eastern nations like Turkey and Lebanon who are taking in the majority of the refugees will help some. Stability is what is needed now more than ever over there.

[Exocet]

Ok this is a very personal issue for me as a few of my Indian cousins go to the UAE to work. The country is horrible. You have to risk getting deported constantly, prices are high, and the climate sucks. Because they work in software it is better off for them but for construction workers, it is hell. I would guess that a lot of these refugees are not very skilled either. If you are a low skill worker, you are more or less a debt slave. So no, those countries are not a good option unless you want the West to poke their noses in another middle eastern country.

What Hungary is doing now is putting a kink in a hose that is on full release. Sooner or later the hose will explode. That is why it is more important to stop the wars and get the region under control. Even supporting the Middle Eastern nations like Turkey and Lebanon who are taking in the majority of the refugees will help some. Stability is what is needed now more than ever over there.

I dont think UAE would treat fellow arabs as they do with Indians,Nepalese etc. But anyway they dont have any interest there since they dont give welfare,house etc.
These are just people seeking the easy life and benefit from a system that they didnt build or contribute for. They should be happy to be in Hungary,given food (that some throwed away...) and water,living in security..... but nope. They want more.

[Porpoise101]

I dont think UAE would treat fellow arabs as they do with Indians,Nepalese etc. But anyway they dont have any interest there since they dont give welfare,house etc.
These are just people seeking the easy life and benefit from a system that they didnt build or contribute for. They should be happy to be in Hungary,given food (that some throwed away...) and water,living in security..... but nope. They want more.
Well I'm saying that there are also Afghans and other central Asians coming, but that is beside the point. If we want to stop the mass migration of people you have to lower the amount of water coming though the faucet or shut it off. What I mean is that you have to stop the problem at its source. I believe this will be less stressful for the Europeans and also better off for the immigrants if we actually work to improve their quality of life over there.

[Exocet]

Well I'm saying that there are also Afghans and other central Asians coming, but that is beside the point. If we want to stop the mass migration of people you have to lower the amount of water coming though the faucet or shut it off. What I mean is that you have to stop the problem at its source. I believe this will be less stressful for the Europeans and also better off for the immigrants if we actually work to improve their quality of life over there.

Why the fck should we help them ? Is it our fault if they live in countries full of fanatics,poverty,corrupt politicians and whatsoever.? They have to improve their countries by themselves. They should be immediatly sent back to where the fck they came from. They are invaders,and should be treated like invaders.

[Porpoise101]

Why the fck should we help them ? Is it our fault if they live in countries full of fanatics,poverty,corrupt politicians and whatsoever.? They have to improve their countries by themselves. They should be immediatly sent back to where the fck they came from. They are invaders,and should be treated like invaders.
See, this xenophobia is not healthy. At least the US and western Europe should take some responsibility, because it is the Eastern and Southern Europeans who are suffering. As for why we should help them, it is because it is the decent thing to do if you are doing well. I understand that Eastern European countries are not doing so well, but I am referring to western Europe, US, and the Anglo countries. I bet even Japan could pitch in a little seeing that a little population is needed. Help could mean anything from accepting refugees to donating to UNICEF.

[Judean Zealot]

Well I mean I'm talking about people who helped us fight in Afghanistan and Iraq. Locals who helped out our troops there. We helped out locals in Vietnam by bringing them overseas to the US, now it is our moral obligation to bring in those who helped us again. If we don't, they will die from extremists and stuff.

Ehh. America screwed the Hmong pretty badly.

[Stronk Serb]

Ok this is a very personal issue for me as a few of my Indian cousins go to the UAE to work. The country is horrible. You have to risk getting deported constantly, prices are high, and the climate sucks. Because they work in software it is better off for them but for construction workers, it is hell. I would guess that a lot of these refugees are not very skilled either. If you are a low skill worker, you are more or less a debt slave. So no, those countries are not a good option unless you want the West to poke their noses in another middle eastern country.

What Hungary is doing now is putting a kink in a hose that is on full release. Sooner or later the hose will explode. That is why it is more important to stop the wars and get the region under control. Even supporting the Middle Eastern nations like Turkey and Lebanon who are taking in the majority of the refugees will help some. Stability is what is needed now more than ever over there.

It is not a concern of Serbia. We should redirect themto Bulgaria or Croatia for all I care. Also supporting Turkey? They were friggin' helping ISIS smuggle oil and are now bombing the Kurds. Here is a link what they have been doing.

https://www.opendemocracy.net/arab-awakening/kamran-matin/why-is-turkey-bombing-kurds


We cannot help them,we dont have money,we have a 2 trillion€ debt and an unemployment rate at 10%,we have other priorities than helping economic migrants... why instead of going to infidel Europe they dont go to Qatar Saudi Arabia,UAE...

Remove welfare for migrants. If they want to come, they should damn earn it and if they cause problems, ship them back.

Why the fck should we help them ? Is it our fault if they live in countries full of fanatics,poverty,corrupt politicians and whatsoever.? They have to improve their countries by themselves. They should be immediatly sent back to where the fck they came from. They are invaders,and should be treated like invaders.

You don't really owe them anything, really.

See, this xenophobia is not healthy. At least the US and western Europe should take some responsibility, because it is the Eastern and Southern Europeans who are suffering. As for why we should help them, it is because it is the decent thing to do if you are doing well. I understand that Eastern European countries are not doing so well, but I am referring to western Europe, US, and the Anglo countries. I bet even Japan could pitch in a little seeing that a little population is needed. Help could mean anything from accepting refugees to donating to UNICEF.

It's worse in west Europe socially because they allow the refugees to get away with shit they cause. Look at Paris, 6/7 parts are inhabbited by Muslims and blacks. They all live in segregated neighborhoods and if the police has to intervene they have to go in with heavily armored vehicles. In Germany it's gotten so bad that they stopped accepting and the people rise up against the refugees.

Ehh. America screwed the Hmong pretty badly.

And Europe has to suffer. You know the shit hit the fan when Neo-nazi groups stop with their antisemite stuff and go to beat on Muslim refugees who are causing more and more problems.

[Vlerchan]

Meanwhile, after days of confrontation and chaos, Hungary's right-wing government deployed dozens of buses to take migrants from Budapest and pick up over 1,000 others - many of them refugees from the Syrian war - who had set off doggedly by foot yesterday down the main highway to Vienna.

Austria said it had agreed with Germany that it would allow the migrants access, waiving the rules of an asylum system brought to breaking point by Europe's worst refugee crisis since the Yugoslav wars of the 1990s.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0905/725835-migrants/
Emphasis added.

Who would have guessed Orban was a liberal race-traitor too?

[Porpoise101]

Ehh. America screwed the Hmong pretty badly.
Point taken. In the US, Hmong are the poorest demographic in the US. But at least they aren't dead. Besides, maybe we could learn from the mistake of the Hmong and learn from the relative success of the Vietnamese who have come.

[Stronk Serb]

Point taken. In the US, Hmong are the poorest demographic in the US. But at least they aren't dead. Besides, maybe we could learn from the mistake of the Hmong and learn from the relative success of the Vietnamese who have come.

The thing with Muslims coming from Sharia countries is that they lived under sharia law all their life and want to get rid of it, then they come to the west and realize that their Sharia law is the only thing separating them from the kuffars and then you have this shit like violent demonstrations, fathers burning daughters for dating an infidel man and that sharia police bullcrap. The strain of Islam that is being shipped to Eurooe isn't just a set of religious orinciples, it's a set of religious, political and economic rules.

[Exocet]

Meanwhile, after days of confrontation and chaos, Hungary's right-wing government deployed dozens of buses to take migrants from Budapest and pick up over 1,000 others - many of them refugees from the Syrian war - who had set off doggedly by foot yesterday down the main highway to Vienna.

Austria said it had agreed with Germany that it would allow the migrants access, waiving the rules of an asylum system brought to breaking point by Europe's worst refugee crisis since the Yugoslav wars of the 1990s.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0905/725835-migrants/
Emphasis added.

Who would have guessed Orban was a liberal race-traitor too?

His country is flooded by hordes,and is doing everything possible without any help of EU. He wanted to get ride of some of them,but when the new laws will be enforced,when the wall will be built and when the aemy will be deployed (by the 15th) it s going to be another story.

Poor and starving migrants throwing away food and water given by the Hungariab Police.... they are too nice. They should be treated worse than animals https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7L3eSbpETf8

[Vlerchan]

Let's contextualise Exocet's video.

Hungarian authorities tricked a large number of refuges into taking a train to the town of Biske. Here - the refuges were met with riot police intending on taking them to a refuge camp. In response - a number of the refugees decided to go on a hunger strike. I see that as valid. That's not stopping the non-protesting refugees from accessing food though as demonstrated in Exocet's video.

---

If it isn't clear enough I'm ignoring the comments built on attempts to dehumanise the refuges.

I don't think we should adopt the entire Syrian population either but I understand that these are still people.

[Stronk Serb]

Let's contextualise Exocet's video.

Hungarian authorities tricked a large number of refuges into taking a train to the town of Biske. Here - the refuges were met with riot police intending on taking them to a refuge camp. In response - a number of the refugees decided to go on a hunger strike. I see that as valid. That's not stopping the non-protesting refugees from accessing food though as demonstrated in Exocet's video.

---

If it isn't clear enough I'm ignoring the comments built on attempts to dehumanise the refuges.

I don't think we should adopt the entire Syrian population either but I understand that these are still people.

You do know that German refugee camps are flooded? All those refugees recieve monetary compensation while waiting for asylum, that's 3000 euros a month. Now multiply that by a million or more how much are there. They can take refuge in the gulf countries but they don't pay welfare.

[Exocet]

Let's contextualise Exocet's video.

Hungarian authorities tricked a large number of refuges into taking a train to the town of Biske. Here - the refuges were met with riot police intending on taking them to a refuge camp. In response - a number of the refugees decided to go on a hunger strike. I see that as valid. That's not stopping the non-protesting refugees from accessing food though as demonstrated in Exocet's video.

---

If it isn't clear enough I'm ignoring the comments built on attempts to dehumanise the refuges.

I don't think we should adopt the entire Syrian population either but I understand that these are still people.

Is that a reason to throw away food and water ?
And are these savage refugees ? These are just economic migrants coming for benefiting from a system. If they have to go to Europe,they shouldnt leave Greece. And by the way,if im not wrong,you cant be a refugee if you choose the country you want to be in,which is precised in the UN convention of 1948. These are invaders,refugee doesnt mean that you have to be put in nice houses,you have to be put in camps til the situation goes better....they are too lucky to cross countries without being shot.
If we look at the video,we can see strong capable men... why arent they fighting for their country instead of fleeing like pssies ,?

[Porpoise101]

The thing with Muslims coming from Sharia countries is that they lived under sharia law all their life and want to get rid of it, then they come to the west and realize that their Sharia law is the only thing separating them from the kuffars and then you have this shit like violent demonstrations, fathers burning daughters for dating an infidel man and that sharia police bullcrap. The strain of Islam that is being shipped to Eurooe isn't just a set of religious orinciples, it's a set of religious, political and economic rules.
Simple. Just put a family or two into each town. That way they don't congregate together and will instead have to work with the locals and assimilate. It will also bring the locals closer to the refugees too and maybe lower the current xenophobia levels in the rural areas.

[Vlerchan]

They can take refuge in the gulf countries but they don't pay welfare.
The Gulf States won't take refugees in.

Jordan, Turkey and Lebanon are the single ME states to allow refugees to locate there, where refugees are stranded in overcrowded refugee camps with little chance of self-determination. That's more-or-less the reason refugees are taking the treacherous trip to Europe, self-determination.

Is that a reason to throw away food and water ?
It's a definitional aspect of the term 'hunger strike'.

And by the way,if im not wrong,you cant be a refugee if you choose the country you want to be in,which is precised in the UN convention of 1948.
You are wrong.

owing to wellfounded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion, is outside the country of his nationality and is unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to avail himself of the protection of that country; or who, not having a nationality and being outside the country of his former habitual residence as a result of such events, is unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to return to it.

http://www.unhcr.org/3b66c2aa10.html

That's the definition. It's all applicable. Here's then the exceptions.

C. This Convention shall cease to apply to any person falling under the
terms of section A if:
(1) He has voluntarily re-availed himself of the protection of the country of his nationality; or
(2) Having lost his nationality, he has voluntarily re-acquired it; or
3) He has acquired a new nationality, and enjoys the protection of the country of his new nationality; or
(4) He has voluntarily re-established himself in the country which he left or outside which he remained owing to fear of persecution; or
(5) He can no longer, because the circumstances in connexion with which he has been recognized as a refugee have ceased to exist, continue to refuse to avail himself of the protection of the country of his nationality; Provided that this paragraph shall not apply to a refugee falling under section A(1) of this article who is able to invoke compelling reasons arising out of previous persecution for refusing to avail himself of the protection of the country of nationality;
(6) Being a person who has no nationality he is, because of the circumstances in connexion with which he has been recognized as a refugee have ceased to exist, able to return to the country of his former habitual residence;

http://www.unhcr.org/3b66c2aa10.html

I presume you're referring to aspect 3 of that draft. This is not applicable to the refugees who have not been made naturalised citizens of Hungary or otherwise.

These are invaders,refugee doesnt mean that you have to be put in nice houses,you have to be put in camps til the situation goes better....
From what I can gather these refuges just want a chance to make a new life for themselves.

That's the reason all of them are heading to immigrant-friendly economies.

they are too lucky to cross countries without being shot.
I've read reports from the Balkans of police shooting at them as they cross.

There's been a handful of deaths. Mostly children.

If we look at the video,we can see strong capable men... why arent they fighting for their country instead of fleeing like pssies ,?
Lol.

[Porpoise101]

I
If we look at the video,we can see strong capable men... why arent they fighting for their country instead of fleeing like pssies ,?
Maybe because there is nothing worth fighting for. Maybe they did fight, but they found it was pointless. Maybe they want to make something of themselves rather than fight for a cause without hope. Maybe they are trying to meet family. How can we know their background? Besides, you Europeans should know a lot more about pointless conflicts and warlords considering that is a lot of your history. And you should also know how it affected the common man quite horribly.

[Stronk Serb]

Maybe because there is nothing worth fighting for. Maybe they did fight, but they found it was pointless. Maybe they want to make something of themselves rather than fight for a cause without hope. Maybe they are trying to meet family. How can we know their background? Besides, you Europeans should know a lot more about pointless conflicts and warlords considering that is a lot of your history. And you should also know how it affected the common man quite horribly.

A guy was interviewed by our paper a few weeks ago, he was a legit Syrian.
Where yre you from?
-Damascus, Syria.
Where do you wish to go?
-Germany
Why did you leave in the first place?
-I don't want to fight for Assad, I want to get good cash in Germany.
So you are saying that you don't want to fight and you essentially don't care about Syria?
-No, I am a proud Syrian but I am leaving because it's bombed out.
Have you found suitable accomodations here?
-I have enough money to rent a five star hotel room for a month, but there are no vacant ones. I am going to Hungary tomorrow.
So how was your stay in Serbia?
-Pre-war Syria was much better, now that all of us are going north, mosques will rise around Belgrade, don't forget that.

This made me realize that he is a fucken' pussy going straight for the euromonies and pretty much a deserter, my uncle was called to arms in the Yugoslav Civil War, the war was pointless but he didn't desert. If you look at the refugees here, they are dressed in more expensive brand clothing than us, the locals. 100,000 Syrian soldiers who were both in the standing army and mobilized troops, why should he be excused? Besides, there are safe-zones established in Syria where people live their everyday lives pretty much how they used to before the war. Also force Saudi Arabia, Qatar and the Emirates to frickin' take refugees, the Sauds especially since those self-righteous idjits Kick-started ISIS.

[Porpoise101]

A guy was interviewed by our paper a few weeks ago, he was a legit Syrian.
Where yre you from?
-Damascus, Syria.
Where do you wish to go?
-Germany
Why did you leave in the first place?
-I don't want to fight for Assad, I want to get good cash in Germany.
So you are saying that you don't want to fight and you essentially don't care about Syria?
-No, I am a proud Syrian but I am leaving because it's bombed out.
Have you found suitable accomodations here?
-I have enough money to rent a five star hotel room for a month, but there are no vacant ones. I am going to Hungary tomorrow.
So how was your stay in Serbia?
-Pre-war Syria was much better, now that all of us are going north, mosques will rise around Belgrade, don't forget that.

This made me realize that he is a fucken' pussy going straight for the euromonies and pretty much a deserter, my uncle was called to arms in the Yugoslav Civil War, the war was pointless but he didn't desert. If you look at the refugees here, they are dressed in more expensive brand clothing than us, the locals. 100,000 Syrian soldiers who were both in the standing army and mobilized troops, why should he be excused? Besides, there are safe-zones established in Syria where people live their everyday lives pretty much how they used to before the war. Also force Saudi Arabia, Qatar and the Emirates to frickin' take refugees, the Sauds especially since those self-righteous idjits Kick-started ISIS.

Ok first off you can't assume he represents all Syrian people. Even if he does, he just wants to live and prosper like anyone else. Maybe they shouldn't be flooding your countries, buy if they cannot live in their homeland, where can they live? Ideally, all the NATO nations and the Gulf States should be up to at least taking some in. The ultimate objective should be to stop the war if you guys don't want to get flooded with people.

[Stronk Serb]

Ok first off you can't assume he represents all Syrian people. Even if he does, he just wants to live and prosper like anyone else. Maybe they shouldn't be flooding your countries, buy if they cannot live in their homeland, where can they live? Ideally, all the NATO nations and the Gulf States should be up to at least taking some in. The ultimate objective should be to stop the war if you guys don't want to get flooded with people.

The war NATO and the gulf states don't want to end. On a protest against stupid government policies yesterday a woman from the Syrian embassy said how the migrants betrayed their country, how dozens of thousands of Syrians, standing soldiers and mobilized gave their lives to stop ISIS, that if they leave, there will be no one to rebuild Syria, that there are safezones where those Syrians can buy property or start a business or help rebuilding with the money they have (which is equal to three years of an average paid job in Serbia, mind you). She also said they are not true Syrians if they left theur country in their time of need. Also there are tons of Afghans and Iraqis who are posing as Syrians for eurominies in refugee camps.

[Porpoise101]

The war NATO and the gulf states don't want to end. On a protest against stupid government policies yesterday a woman from the Syrian embassy said how the migrants betrayed their country, how dozens of thousands of Syrians, standing soldiers and mobilized gave their lives to stop ISIS, that if they leave, there will be no one to rebuild Syria, that there are safezones where those Syrians can buy property or start a business or help rebuilding with the money they have (which is equal to three years of an average paid job in Serbia, mind you). She also said they are not true Syrians if they left theur country in their time of need. Also there are tons of Afghans and Iraqis who are posing as Syrians for eurominies in refugee camps.
That is why we all have to pressure our governments to make a positive change in our communities and across the world.

[Stronk Serb]

That is why we all have to pressure our governments to make a positive change in our communities and across the world.

What do you propose? Honestly, I am thinking of giving money to Assad so he can win the war. Direct support from the west will be foolish.

[Porpoise101]

What do you propose? Honestly, I am thinking of giving money to Assad so he can win the war. Direct support from the west will be foolish.
Work together with Russia is going to be the biggest thing. Maybe combat to remove IS scum.

[Stronk Serb]

Work together with Russia is going to be the biggest thing. Maybe combat to remove IS scum.

Fund and supply Assad so that the Syrians themselves can fight the war and rebuild. Also deploy UN blue helmets so they can help keep order and defend the safe zones. Also ship the refugees back to them.

[Porpoise101]

Fund and supply Assad so that the Syrians themselves can fight the war and rebuild. Also deploy UN blue helmets so they can help keep order and defend the safe zones. Also ship the refugees back to them.
Hmm I think we just need to remove terrorists so the war can play out like a normal civil war. UN blue helmets suck anyways; it's best if the US and Russia handle it because who knows, maybe they will be more amicable after fighting together.

[Stronk Serb]

Hmm I think we just need to remove terrorists so the war can play out like a normal civil war. UN blue helmets suck anyways; it's best if the US and Russia handle it because who knows, maybe they will be more amicable after fighting together.

You do know that US troops in the Middle East rings "OCCUPATION, JOIN ISIS TO FIGHT WESTERN DOGS!" to the locals, right? Indirect support will guarantee regional stability to the recion.

[Porpoise101]

You do know that US troops in the Middle East rings "OCCUPATION, JOIN ISIS TO FIGHT WESTERN DOGS!" to the locals, right? Indirect support will guarantee regional stability to the recion.
I'm not saying occupation. I'm saying the West and Russia can work together to destroy IS through indirect support or drones. I'm also saying that helping Assad is bad because he is evil. I am also saying not to arm rebels. Just to remove the obstruction to the civil war. Ideally you send in drones and aid to Turkey and Lebanon because they have taken in the majority of the refugees and are fairly overburdened. To me, the civil war should just play out so the better side can win "organically."

[Stronk Serb]

I'm not saying occupation. I'm saying the West and Russia can work together to destroy IS through indirect support or drones. I'm also saying that helping Assad is bad because he is evil. I am also saying not to arm rebels. Just to remove the obstruction to the civil war. Ideally you send in drones and aid to Turkey and Lebanon because they have taken in the majority of the refugees and are fairly overburdened. To me, the civil war should just play out so the better side can win "organically."

Assad is your best bet at stability in the region. All the other rebel factions are routed, only ISIS remains. Even if the pro-west rebels win organucally,it's still gonna be Iraq 3.0. Also drone strikes are bad, look at the shit going on in Yemen.

[Porpoise101]

Assad is your best bet at stability in the region. All the other rebel factions are routed, only ISIS remains. Even if the pro-west rebels win organucally,it's still gonna be Iraq 3.0. Also drone strikes are bad, look at the shit going on in Yemen.
Assad is the worst leader in a long time. Even Hitler didn't slaughter his own people like this man does. His own people reject him and no one likes him. Fellow Arabs hate him. This all means instability. And organically letting the war go on is best because the US won't have a hand in it and put in puppet leaders like in Iraq.

[Stronk Serb]

Assad is the worst leader in a long time. Even Hitler didn't slaughter his own people like this man does. His own people reject him and no one likes him. Fellow Arabs hate him. This all means instability. And organically letting the war go on is best because the US won't have a hand in it and put in puppet leaders like in Iraq.

Lolwut? I am sorry, people like Assad, Hussein and Gaddafi kept these goatfuckers called ISIS in line. Look at Iraq now, major causes of death are militant shootouts, suicide bombings and rape to death by ISIS. Not to mention Afghanistan.

[Porpoise101]

Lolwut? I am sorry, people like Assad, Hussein and Gaddafi kept these goatfuckers called ISIS in line. Look at Iraq now, major causes of death are militant shootouts, suicide bombings and rape to death by ISIS. Not to mention Afghanistan.
People don't stand by anyone who can't even control the army.

[Stronk Serb]

People don't stand by anyone who can't even control the army.

Assad controls the army. The fight has now turned into a stalemate. Who do you refer to by that? Assad, Hussein and Gaddafi damn well controlled their armies, at least until the west funded gangbangers to remove them.

[Vlerchan]

This made me realize that he is a fucken' pussy going straight for the euromonies and pretty much a deserter[.]
Even if we pretend this unsourced anecdote is true the problem is in the application of this across the refuge population.

If you look at the refugees here, they are dressed in more expensive brand clothing than us, the locals.
What's the odds that the source for this is a picture of a handful of refugees but nothing concrete.

I'll take them regardless.

100,000 Syrian soldiers who were both in the standing army and mobilized troops, why should he be excused?
I would imagine a large number of them supported the liberals and lost.

But regardless none of them want to fight on Asaad's side. Perhaps it's the case that the people don't see murdering people when there isn't a point as being some inherent good.

Besides, there are safe-zones established in Syria where people live their everyday lives pretty much how they used to before the war.
Would you mind linking to a source.

I've seen reports surrounding NATO-aligned forces hoping to secure safe zones but nothing concrete.

Also force Saudi Arabia, Qatar and the Emirates to frickin' take refugees, the Sauds especially since those self-righteous idjits Kick-started ISIS.
Sure. I have no problem with this.

On a protest against stupid government policies yesterday a woman from the Syrian embassy said how the migrants betrayed their country, how dozens of thousands of Syrians, standing soldiers and mobilized gave their lives to stop ISIS, that if they leave, there will be no one to rebuild Syria, that there are safezones where those Syrians can buy property or start a business or help rebuilding with the money they have (which is equal to three years of an average paid job in Serbia, mind you). She also said they are not true Syrians if they left theur country in their time of need.
You'll need to explain why this woman's opinion matters. It just sounds typical of something the representative of a nationalist dictator would claim.

You also keep claiming that these refugees, and implying that Syrians in general, are wealthy but aren't providing a source.

Also there are tons of Afghans and Iraqis who are posing as Syrians for eurominies in refugee camps.

I would also imagine that there fleeing their homes has nothing to do with the homes also being conflict areas.

Right.

[Stronk Serb]

Even if we pretend this unsourced anecdote is true the problem is in the application of this across the refuge population.


What's the odds that the source for this is a picture of a handful of refugees but nothing concrete.

I'll take them regardless.


I would imagine a large number of them supported the liberals and lost.

But regardless none of them want to fight on Asaad's side. Perhaps it's the case that the people don't see murdering people when there isn't a point as being some inherent good.


Would you mind linking to a source.

I've seen reports surrounding NATO-aligned forces hoping to secure safe zones but nothing concrete.


Sure. I have no problem with this.


You'll need to explain why this woman's opinion matters. It just sounds typical of something the representative of a nationalist dictator would claim.

You also keep claiming that these refugees, and implying that Syrians in general, are wealthy but aren't providing a source.


I would also imagine that there fleeing their homes has nothing to do with the homes also being conflict areas.

Right.

I'll try to find the sources for my claims in English tomorrow morning. Will it suffice if some sources are in Serbian?

[Vlerchan]

I'll try to find the sources for my claims in English tomorrow morning. Will it suffice if some sources are in Serbian?
I would appreciate English citations.

These claims seem damning enough that surely anglo-media will have picked up on it.

[Porpoise101]

Assad controls the army. The fight has now turned into a stalemate. Who do you refer to by that? Assad, Hussein and Gaddafi damn well controlled their armies, at least until the west funded gangbangers to remove them.
Yes he controls the army but his government is not popular with anyone else by now since the factions have erupted and the Kurds and IS have taken control of various parts of the country. Most of the Syrian refugees also hate him a lot.

[Left Now]

Yes he controls the army but his government is not popular with anyone else by now since the factions have erupted and the Kurds and IS have taken control of various parts of the country. Most of the Syrian refugees also hate him a lot.

The fact is among the majority of Syrians already present in Syria (a little more than 50 percent) his government still has a great influence,so his government still is the only legitimate government which is present in Syria.

Plus+It is an established fact that the FSA's popularity is even lesser than Assad in Syria because of its temporary alliance with ISIL and other Al-Qaeda groups against Assad.That event completely showed that this group is not concerned about Syria and its people,but just seeks an ultra-radical changes in Syria's policies toward some internal and many foreign matters.Most majority of political groups which are against Assad's government right now are also allied with FSA,so it shows that they are for sure less popular than Assad himself in their country.

This only leaves Kurds,whom I do not think will last very long on their own,because as soon the Civil War in Syria ends,Turkey will begin pouncing them to prevent any Kurd Uprising in its own territories.So they will surely try to be a part of Syria,even if they be able to become a semi-independent state.

Also we must not forget that until the time Saudi Arabia and many other Gulf Emirates and Kingdoms receive military and financial aids from west particularly US,groups like Al-Nusra Front and Syrian-Iraqi branches of Al-Qaeda will be militarily and financially fed,so if western countries really seeks to be completely indifferent toward any groups involved in Syrian Civil War,they also have to stop their aid to Gulf Emirates and Kingdoms,particularly Saudi Arabia.

[Porpoise101]

The fact is among the majority of Syrians already present in Syria (a little more than 50 percent) his government still has a great influence,so his government still is the only legitimate government which is present in Syria.

Plus+It is an established fact that the FSA's popularity is even lesser than Assad in Syria because of its temporary alliance with ISIL and other Al-Qaeda groups against Assad.That event completely showed that this group is not concerned about Syria and its people,but just seeks an ultra-radical changes in Syria's policies toward some internal and many foreign matters.Most majority of political groups which are against Assad's government right now are also allied with FSA,so it shows that they are for sure less popular than Assad himself in their country.

This only leaves Kurds,whom I do not think will last very long on their own,because as soon the Civil War in Syria ends,Turkey will begin pouncing them to prevent any Kurd Uprising in its own territories.So they will surely try to be a part of Syria,even if they be able to become a semi-independent state.

Also we must not forget that until the time Saudi Arabia and many other Gulf Emirates and Kingdoms receive military and financial aids from west particularly US,groups like Al-Nusra Front and Syrian-Iraqi branches of Al-Qaeda will be militarily and financially fed,so if western countries really seeks to be completely indifferent toward any groups involved in Syrian Civil War,they also have to stop their aid to Gulf Emirates and Kingdoms,particularly Saudi Arabia.
Yes I know that I am saying that the US and Russia should not have picked sides to begin with. The US is also guilty of aiding the Saudi government which is nefarious in its own way. But in the situation we are currently in, both sides need to remove IS and find a solution do that we don't have another Libya. Hopefully the Syrians will pick a good leader that the West likes or else there will be issues... Right now there are not many good options, but the West (read US) is committed that the options on the table cannot have IS or Assad in it.

[Left Now]

Yes I know that I am saying that the US and Russia should not have picked sides to begin with. The US is also guilty of aiding the Saudi government which is nefarious in its own way. But in the situation we are currently in, both sides need to remove IS and find a solution do that we don't have another Libya. Hopefully the Syrians will pick a good leader that the West likes or else there will be issues... Right now there are not many good options, but the West (read US) is committed that the options on the table cannot have IS or Assad in it.

Well that is the problem.Right now Assad is the only available and suitable option for presidency in Syria and his government is legitimate.Western countries must get along with him otherwise nothing can be solved.

[Stronk Serb]

Yes he controls the army but his government is not popular with anyone else by now since the factions have erupted and the Kurds and IS have taken control of various parts of the country. Most of the Syrian refugees also hate him a lot.


Well, he's the only legitimate ruler of Syria. Kurds will be attacked by Turks because,you know, they won't let anyone take their land which was pretty much built on genocide. Not to mention they started shelling Kurd positions at the border and I think they signed a cease fire with IS and are helping them as long as they fight the Kurds. Assad is the onky viable option for regional stability.

[Porpoise101]

Maybe he is the only option for now but I am hoping that a better leader comes out. After all it is in trying times that true courage is shown.

[Left Now]

Maybe he is the only option for now but I am hoping that a better leader comes out. After all it is in trying times that true courage is shown.

Now a question:

What exactly do you see as traits of a better president?

I am not saying that Assad is a good president neither but he is the legitimate ruler of Syria because still majority of his people are supporting him,despite all problems which Syria's political system has,but if by better you mean a 180 degree change of policy toward west and its allies in the region,well I can just refer you to Erdoghan and Sisi themselves.

My vision of a better ruler is a person who can manage their country better and can solve the internal problems through effective peaceful ways,for example in more ways gets along with minority ethnical and religious and political groups,tries their best to decrease political and economical corruptions without caring about who are the ones behind them and without seeing their own pockets in priority to people's and respecting people's and their criticizers' opinions.

In general better internal policies.Their foreign policy is not a major part of my vision of a better ruling.

[Porpoise101]

Now a question:

What exactly do you see as traits of a better president?

I am not saying that Assad is a good president neither but he is the legitimate ruler of Syria because still majority of his people are supporting him,despite all problems which Syria's political system has,but if by better you mean a 180 degree change of policy toward west and its allies in the region,well I can just refer you to Erdoghan and Sisi themselves.

My vision of a better ruler is a person who can manage their country better and can solve the internal problems through effective peaceful ways,for example in more ways gets along with minority ethnical and religious and political groups,tries their best to decrease political and economical corruptions without caring about who are the ones behind them and without seeing their own pockets in priority to people's and respecting people's and their criticizers' opinions.

In general better internal policies.Their foreign policy is not a major part of my vision of a better ruling.
I see a leader who can connect the interests of the people with that of the world. In the past the world didn't matter as much but now it is nearly as important as domestic affairs.

[Left Now]

I see a leader who can connect the interests of the people with that of the world. In the past the world didn't matter as much but now it is nearly as important as domestic affairs.

Interests of others do not interfere with interests of a people itself.If they do,then they are not interests anymore,just an opportunity to ruin opportunities.

If a rulership can do good enough internally and has the support of most majority of its people,then I see that all legitimate;other peoples and countries have no right to say that for example they need better rulership or for example choose in their place,unless they intend to get a profit from this which only themselves and those whom they want are going to receive it,not the people of that certain country themselves.Experience has taught me usually western countries like UK and US and France and Global Superpowers like Russia and China have such policies like this toward others.

[Porpoise101]

Interests of others do not interfere with interests of a people itself.If they do,then they are not interests anymore,just an opportunity to ruin opportunities.

If a rulership can do good enough internally and has the support of most majority of its people,then I see that all legitimate;other peoples and countries have no right to say that for example they need better rulership or for example choose in their place,unless they intend to get a profit from this which only themselves and those whom they want are going to receive it,not the people of that certain country themselves.Experience has taught me usually western countries like UK and US and France and Global Superpowers like Russia and China have such policies like this toward others.
Exactly but smaller nations have to live with the reality of superpowers and their tendency to bully. Either that or successfully oppose them or take their place. Otherwise a leader cannot afford to act according to his or her nation's interest. To me a legitimate leader is one who can protect the populus from corruption, invasion, and starvation, but nowadays more things have probably been added to that list. I guess you could say that I believe in a sort of mandate of heaven, because a leader who cannot avert or handle disasters should not rule.

[Left Now]

Exactly but smaller nations have to live with the reality of superpowers and their tendency to bully. Either that or successfully oppose them or take their place. Otherwise a leader cannot afford to act according to his or her nation's interest. To me a legitimate leader is one who can protect the populus from corruption, invasion, and starvation, but nowadays more things have probably been added to that list. I guess you could say that I believe in a sort of mandate of heaven, because a leader who cannot avert or handle disasters should not rule.

Okay,if you like let's continue this discussion somewhere else (via PM or even a new thread).I think we have gone too far from the topic of this thread itself.

[Capto]

I bet even Japan could pitch in a little seeing that a little population is needed.

I mean, we could, but there's no way in hell that that's happening.

[Porpoise101]

I mean, we could, but there's no way in hell that that's happening.
I guess it would be a little more difficult for them to assimilate... But if I am not mistaken you guys could use the population. If the US can take in a few refugees from an ocean away then maybe it is more feasible unless there is something I am not understanding.