Opinions on Donald Trump

[Sir Suomi]

So while saying this makes me want to fall upon my sword Roman-style, it looks like Donald Trump is leading in the polls for Republican nominees. Whether it' due to his (apparently) charming personality, his idiotic temper tantrum-like publicity stunts, or hell, his hair, there is no denying that he's a plausible candidate.

So far, two possibilities remain for the 2016 nomination.

a) He'll get the Republican nomination, but lose because he's made a vast majority of enemies from the left side, moderates, and even those from the right side. This means a win for whomever runs as the Democratic nomination.

b) He doesn't get the Republican nomination, so he runs as an independent. He steals votes from the ignorant side of the right-side, which causes a win for the Democratic nomination.

Either way, Trump will literally fuck America unless he completely drops out.

So my question is how do we deal with him, and what's your opinion on him?

brb, kms

[Judean Zealot]

How to deal with him ideally? Arrange an 'accident'.

How to deal with him in the current reality? It's too late. You just have to hope that primary voters get bored of him. If the media wouldn't publicize his absurd comments it may help.

[DriveAlive]

To be honest, I am sort of enamored with him. I mean, I would never vote for him, but I like to think that I would. He's a fun candidate to say that you support. He does have a cult of personality...

[StoppingTom]

I think my family is actually pretty serious about moving out of the country if he somehow gets elected. Not a fan of Clinton either, so he's making this election even more awful.

[Judean Zealot]

I think my family is actually pretty serious about moving out of the country if he somehow gets elected. Not a fan of Clinton either, so he's making this election even more awful.

Where would they go?

[Horatio Nelson]

I'm not voting for him, but I don't think he's as evil as he's made out to be.

[StoppingTom]

Where would they go?

I asked, and they said "somewhere tropical". NICE.

[Judean Zealot]

I'm not voting for him, but I don't think he's as evil as he's made out to be.

Not evil. Idiotic. That's even worse in a president.

[Apassionato]

He's an idiot. Incredibly racist and sexist, too. If he becomes a serious contender, America is over in the eyes of the world. Even more so than it already is. Diplomacy would become a whole lot tougher, too.
Say what you want about Obama, his fuck-ups and his political ideas that not everybody agrees with(I personally found the NSA affair to be unjustifiable on a human rights basis, however, it's hard to know just how much control he has over them - in the end a president isn't as almighty as people like to make them out to be, in a lot of areas their power is severely limited), but he knew how to talk to and deal with other state leaders.

[tonymontana99]

So while saying this makes me want to fall upon my sword Roman-style, it looks like Donald Trump is leading in the polls for Republican nominees. Whether it' due to his (apparently) charming personality, his idiotic temper tantrum-like publicity stunts, or hell, his hair, there is no denying that he's a plausible candidate.

So far, two possibilities remain for the 2016 nomination.

a) He'll get the Republican nomination, but lose because he's made a vast majority of enemies from the left side, moderates, and even those from the right side. This means a win for whomever runs as the Democratic nomination.

b) He doesn't get the Republican nomination, so he runs as an independent. He steals votes from the ignorant side of the right-side, which causes a win for the Democratic nomination.

Either way, Trump will literally fuck America unless he completely drops out.

So my question is how do we deal with him, and what's your opinion on him?

brb, kms

I like him because he's one of the few who are saying exactly what the population wants to hear. It definitely resonates with people when he points out that we simply aren't winning anymore. We're being cucked by China, Japan, Mexico, Iran and Europe. Pretty much everyone. Except for Israel, for obvious reasons ([hand rubbing intensifies]). He has a proven track record of being a successful businessman, has his name all across the world, is a household name for more than 30 years and seems to be genuinely concerned about our country. Not to mention that he isn't the racist bigot that these so called news reporters want to make him seem like. Just turn on CNN. It's shameful how they're covering Trump. Just take the Univision guy, for example. He was acting out and behaving in an impolite manner, demanding answers when he wasn't called for (and Trump even had the graciousness of answering his question after he returned). And then Trump went on talking about our economy, our roads, our military, our education system and our veterans, and yet you see nothing of this on CNN or elsewhere. They're reeking with fear because he's growing stronger.

But you're right. My greatest fear is that he doesn't get the nomination and runs independent. It will just fuck things up. Last thing we need is a woman who answers "What, you mean with a cloth or something?" when asked if she wiped her email server or a socialist jew who believes money grows on trees and wants to make this nation the most cucked country besides Sweden and Germany. If Trump gets the nomination, I seriously hope he starts acting more mature and cuts back a little on the mid speech jokes. Other than that, I'd love to see our country having a massive military (finally, a weapon that can surpass Metal Gear), new infrastructures, the revival of the American spirit and tenacity, and better trade deals. Either that or he gets assassinated on his first year.

If he doesn't get the nomination, then I seriously hope Ivanka can make him drop out because there's no way the man won't fuck the elections up completely for the GOP. We can only hope for a Trump/Carson duo. That would be so, so good. Combining the business knowledge, American nationalism and militaristic aspects of Trump with the common-sense, down-to-earth style and unifying of Dr. Ben Carson would be tremendous.

[phuckphace]

this isn't so much a defense of Trump as it is one of populism

Trump is a lot of things, but he's far from an "idiot" or "incompetent." you ought to ask yourself why Trump is leading in the polls by a healthy margin, while your precious Rand Paul is a non-entity barely worth a passing snigger. the answer? Trump, unlike Paul, actually has an understanding of what strikes home with the average American citizen, and this contrasts sharply with the other slack-jawed politicians who are so far removed from we the people that they might as well be from another planet. that's what populism is - find out what's actually happening on the ground and build your campaign on it. the results speak for themselves.

lolbertarians are the idiots if they believe they still have a shot at capturing broad appeal. Americans have been continuously reamed for the last several decades by the very same FREE MARKET that Paul continues to cling to like a drowning swimmer. here's a clue for you: the average American does not care about Laffer curves or coercion or WORTHLESS PAPER MONEY or whatever the fuck else he blathers on about to an empty room. Americans do care about having to work 60 hours a week for a billion-dollar corporation while being unable to support themselves. Americans do care about quiet neighborhoods and communities being transformed into thugged-out shitholes so the free market can give us cheap tacos. Americans do care about visiting the doctor for a cough and receiving a $400 bill. this neverending shitshow is brought to you by the free market - so obviously, thinks Paul, what we need is an even freer market. :lol3: it's simply not possible to be any more out of touch.

lolbertarians don't win elections because their primary support base is too young to vote. lolbertarian ideology is puerile and has nothing to offer to this country, especially not now. if this were the 70s or 80s Paul might be able to break 10 - 15% of the popular vote. but here in Anno Domini two thousand and fifteen, nobody wants to hear that shit, we're tired of it.

Trump's campaign is the best thing to happen to American politics in a long time, regardless of whether or not he wins. he's exposed the GOP, Dems, and lolbertarians for the incompetent cucks that they are. that is all.

[Judean Zealot]

phuckphace

I agree with most of your post, but Trump has truly infantile notions of international relations and such. Profit$ might be all the people look at, but America can't have a Commodus for prez at this juncture.

[Leijon]

:33 < while your human politics certainly do confuse me, it s33ms like he'd make quite a ruthless ruler. i'd rather not s33 him be in the govfurment. purrhaps a change of system is in order?

[mattsmith48]

I think hes acting like Hitler but he as no chance of being president because even tho the US is a stupid country there not that stupid

[thegreatgatz]

Trump gets a bad wrap, and lots of people like to criminalize him and set him up on the roof of conservativism's holy temple as a gargoyle, a thing to be reviled by all, Republican faithful and liberals alike.

However, it must be said, the fundamentals of who and what trump is are sound in theory. He is an experienced businessman, who realizes total free market policies are dangerous to national welfare. conservatives attack him, using the same anti protectionist dribble they have been squirting out of their ass-faces since Reagan's free market and diarrhea-trickle-down economics. Since then, our country has turned into, as one VTer once said 'a postindustrial hellhole' .

In the past twenty or thirty years, a once strongly self sufficient industrial power has slumped into postcapitalist postindustrialist vulnerability as a result of tax-and-spend "liberal" policies combined with "free market" globalism. The mess this caused was an exodus of working class jobs and industry from this country. In essence, the disastrous muck of our society is a result of wealthy Republicans and Social Justice liberal Democrats waging a subconscious war against the proletariat.

Candidates like Trump and Sanders are important to this country, they are the voice of a working class which has picked itself up despite its broken bones, and surged forwards demanding pay and equality. This is the beginning of a class war, which race and gender will not distract. Candidates who want tariffs and union power are the unconscious voice of a revolutionary working class, rising up against a system created by the conspiracy of the major parties, and rebelling within them. We need Trump, and we need Sanders, whether or not we like it.

[mattsmith48]

Candidates like Trump and Sanders are important to this country, they are the voice of a working class which has picked itself up despite its broken bones, and surged forwards demanding pay and equality. This is the beginning of a class war, which race and gender will not distract. Candidates who want tariffs and union power are the unconscious voice of a revolutionary working class, rising up against a system created by the conspiracy of the major parties, and rebelling within them. We need Trump, and we need Sanders, whether or not we like it.

Really!? Trump represent the tyrant boss who don't give a fuck about anything else than the money in their bank account

[thegreatgatz]

Really!? Trump represent the tyrant boss who don't give a fuck about anything else than the money in their bank account

Ok, that's not completely untrue. But Trump's voice is even more important. He is a businessman who has triumphed despite these policies, and he is coming out and spreading the word that society is best served not by the free market system, but by a regulated and stable economy.

[Fritos43]

Racist sexist hypocrite? Also insane, kinda like the type that makes you laugh at the beginning, expecting it to be a joke, but as time goes on and he keeps being insane, you kinda wanna say, "So, what's your REAL plan?" And he looks at you like, "Have you been listening?" Then you blink in surprise, like, "Oh, you're legitimately planning all of this? Great..."

[dxcxdzv]

http://uberhumor.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/NI6DSf5.jpg

[Porpoise101]

How to deal with him ideally? Arrange an 'accident'.
Leftie here. I'm all for this

[phuckphace]

phuckphace

I agree with most of your post, but Trump has truly infantile notions of international relations and such. Profit$ might be all the people look at, but America can't have a Commodus for prez at this juncture.

Ok, that's not completely untrue. But Trump's voice is even more important. He is a businessman who has triumphed despite these policies, and he is coming out and spreading the word that society is best served not by the free market system, but by a regulated and stable economy.

Jean Poutine compared him to Silvio Berlusconi which I think is pretty apt.

the main reason he fascinates me is that he appears to be the only filthy rich guy in existence who apparently doesn't want to rule over a Fallout wasteland dotted by Golden Arches.

[thegreatgatz]

Jean Poutine compared him to Silvio Berlusconi which I think is pretty apt.

the main reason he fascinates me is that he appears to be the only filthy rich guy in existence who apparently doesn't want to rule over a Fallout wasteland dotted by Golden Arches.

I think its fairly important as a side note that one proletarian's "Fallout wasteland dotted by Golden Arches" is a postindustrialist utopia for the super rich. Most of the wealthy and greedy would rather exploit others for their own enormous gain then give up 30 percent of their millions so that the people they exploit commercially can have a decent standard of living in a fair market in a country with values and decent jobs.

[StoppingTom]

I think a lot of people went with it at first because "haha we're all in on the joke isn't this guy wacky" but now people are taking him serious.

STOP DOING THAT.

[phuckphace]

I think a lot of people went with it at first because "haha we're all in on the joke isn't this guy wacky" but now people are taking him serious.

STOP DOING THAT.

if that's really how you think it happened then you are obviously not paying attention. at all.

[Sir Suomi]

Trump is a lot of things, but he's far from an "idiot" or "incompetent."

No. He very rarely has any facts behind his statements, and when he does, he blows them extremely out of proportion. The only reason he's "liked" is because people are too ignorant to actually look at the facts surrounding his claims.

Not to mention the whole McCain issue. Seriously, the guys claims that McCain wasn't a war hero because he was captured, while at the same time Trump was a draft dodger.

you ought to ask yourself why Trump is leading in the polls by a healthy margin, while your precious Rand Paul is a non-entity barely worth a passing snigger. the answer?

Mainly because the average U.S citizen doesn't take enough interest in politics to understand that our recent "moderate" presidents have been a joke.

Trump, unlike Paul, actually has an understanding of what strikes home with the average American citizen,

>Paul is in favor of stomping down on the NSA
>Wants a complete audit of the Federal Reserve
>Supports lower taxes and closing of loopholes
>Wants to disband the PATRIOT act
>Wants to keep drones out of American skies
>Wants the government out of marriage entirely and allow adults to love as they deem fit
>Opposes police militarization
>Approves of private business's right to serve who they deem fit
>Supports returning educational power to the local level instead of the mess that is Common Core
>Opposes gun legislation
>Supports freeing the healthcare market from federal involvement
>Believes while we should tighten border security we should make a streamlines path for citizenship/residencies for those found to be law-abiding and tax paying
>Thinks marijuana legalization is a state's right issue and opposes a federal ban
>Wants to impose term limits
>Wants to loosen up punishment for non-violent crime
>Wants to limit intervention abroad
>Wants to limit foreign aid

I think all of these things are something a lot of people from both sides of the political spectrum can agree upon.


Americans have been continuously reamed for the last several decades by the very same FREE MARKET that Paul continues to cling to like a drowning swimmer.

lmao America has anything but a Free Market, or at least what most libertarians like myself strive for

Americans do care about having to work 60 hours a week for a billion-dollar corporation while being unable to support themselves.

Like any form of government can provide this without huge governmental involvement, a.k.a taxes.

Americans do care about quiet neighborhoods and communities being transformed into thugged-out shitholes so the free market can give us cheap tacos.

Lol those damn immigrants. It's not like they work in labor fields that no American would ever consider working in. Or make up a considerable percentage of low-skill labor fields. Fuck it, let's deport 'em all. Our economy won't feel a thing.


Americans do care about visiting the doctor for a cough and receiving a $400 bill.

>Implying that a Free Market wouldn't allow cheap insurance companies to be available to these people. Also at the same time, is it really the rest of societies burden to care for those who will take a lot out but put very little in?



lolbertarians don't win elections because their primary support base is too young to vote.

Ever wonder why it's support is strong among the younger generations? Because we're seeing the older generation completely tearing down what we perceived as American ideals in the name of "Equality" or "Self Defense". It's bullshit that some people like myself am fed up with.



Trump's campaign is the best thing to happen to American politics in a long time, regardless of whether or not he wins. he's exposed the GOP, Dems, and lolbertarians for the incompetent cucks that they are. that is all.

All it's done is prove how bad our country has really fallen.

[DerBear]

He's a bit of a twat

[Sailor Mars]

He's an asshole. But unfortunately he DOES present a lot of views that Americans think (not all but, a lot of crazy republicans) like the whole "build a wall between here and Mexico cuz those damn immigrants need to keep their drug trade and criminals to themself even tho there are innocent families trying to get away from it, arrrghh!"

[phuckphace]

Sir Suomi

you're clearly only interested in regurgitating the same BLEEP BLURP lolbertarian lines we've heard since, well, ever. yeah sure, as soon as Paul gets elected he'll issue all these executive orders to overturn this that and the other thing, so we get to watch SCOTUS overturn them all.

re: immigration: I totally forgot that grapes used to sit on the vine until they rotted. thankfully we imported hordes of surly Mexicans to fix this problem and save ARE ECONOMONEY in the process. *lives in white-as-fuck-Nebraska with parents*

taxes = "HUGE GOVERNMENT INVOLVEMENT" :lol3: small government + big society is a non-starter, by the way. this is something the "gubmint can't do anything right except for the military" crew doesn't get, and never will. yeah I know, anyone who doesn't support a totally deregulated free-for-all is a delicate pansy that needs BIG GUBMINT to wipe their asses for them. really no point in arguing about it.

you'll start to understand what I'm saying after you start a family of your own and have children. people who have already done this take one look at Paul, turn 360 degrees and walk away. check the polls again.

[tovaris]

He is maried to a Slovenian woman, so he must be smart to mary into the best blod around, but dam crazy to find someone so anoying like that oarticulat soecimin.
At leest when he starts shel will run for president in 10 or sp years (khm clinton)

[Jean Poutine]

"build a wall between here and Mexico cuz those damn immigrants need to keep their drug trade and criminals to themself even tho there are innocent families trying to get away from it, arrrghh!"

How is that our problem?

[Melodic]

Here's my opinion.

Did anyone hear about Kanye West running for president in 2020?

Yeah, I'd vote for Kanye West over Donald Trump. :lol:

[phuckphace]

reminder that Rand Paul unironically compared taxation to slavery :lol3: this is one example of his cringingly autistic worldview wherein people can survive on nothing but RIGHTS and LIBERTIES and owe nothing to the society they live in.

your society ends where mine begins (at the tip of your nose)

[StoppingTom]

Here's my opinion.

Did anyone hear about Kanye West running for president in 2020?

Yeah, I'd vote for Kanye West over Donald Trump. :lol:

Yes! Bringing a whole new meaning to Western Civilization!

[Sir Suomi]

yeah sure, as soon as Paul gets elected he'll issue all these executive orders to overturn this that and the other thing, so we get to watch SCOTUS overturn them all.

lol most of the thing he's wanting to overturn ARE unconstitutional. SCOTUS is a fucking joke. Putting people who are simply hand picked by presidents to decide the fate of representing our Constitution is ridiculous.

re: immigration: I totally forgot that grapes used to sit on the vine until they rotted. thankfully we imported hordes of surly Mexicans to fix this problem and save ARE ECONOMONEY in the process.

Half of our agricultural labor comes from undocumented labor. Huge chunks of low-skill labor also comes from undocumented workers. Ever notice the ethnicity of the guy roofing your house, mowing you lawn, or paving the highways?

*lives in white-as-fuck-Nebraska with parents*

Nebraska, at least in the Central/Eastern area that I live in, has a predominant Hispanic population. Most are very good, honest, hardworking people.



you'll start to understand what I'm saying after you start a family of your own and have children. people who have already done this take one look at Paul, turn 360 degrees and walk away. check the polls again.

I understand already when more and more of my paycheck goes to the government, and even more will go once I start paying taxes.

reminder that Rand Paul unironically compared taxation to slavery

Taxation is theft, no matter what angle you look at it. I'm not saying cut all taxation, but my money should be used in a much more intelligent way than it currently is.

[WaffleSingSong]

The dude is a narcissist and a demagogue, and with his narcissism and demagogery, as well as stating his ideas in a way that sounds like he's the biggest badass of all time, and how he is going to kick everyone's ass that isn't what he likes, he has effectively reached out to the more backwater, sheltered conservatives of our nation that probably do not really even get into the meat of politics all that much.

Like most Kentuckians, for example.

:,(

[phuckphace]

lol most of the thing he's wanting to overturn ARE unconstitutional. SCOTUS is a fucking joke. Putting people who are simply hand picked by presidents to decide the fate of representing our Constitution is ridiculous.

how exactly do you think Paul will be able to enact half of the changes he plans to enact unless he engages with, rather than dismantles, the status quo? sure, he could always issue a bunch of executive orders, which sounds a bit too Hitlerian for our champion of freedums nevermind the fact that they wouldn't stick anyway. I can sure see the look on Scalia's face when Paul tells him to pack his bags and go home.

Half of our agricultural labor comes from undocumented labor.

lol "undocumented labor" quit using this retarded neologism and call it what it is - border jumpers who enter the country illegally to receive cash under the table from traitorous business owners who are too greedy to give jobs to their fellow Americans.

also, refer back to my earlier point about those grapes. before we imported cholos, those jobs were filled by low-skill Americans who were happy to have them.

Huge chunks of low-skill labor also comes from undocumented workers. Ever notice the ethnicity of the guy roofing your house, mowing you lawn, or paving the highways?

here's what you're not getting - importing millions of thuggish cholos into our communities is contributing to ever-increasing alienation among Americans who feel like foreigners in their own country. lolbertarians don't get this, so I'll describe it for you: in a high-trust society (here's what it looked like (http://www.virtualteen.org/forums/showthread.php?t=228004)) crime was low, people felt safe, at home, someplace they belonged among people who were like them and shared their language, culture and values. nowadays, our demographics are being turned inside out and upside-down SO A CORPORATION CAN SAVE A FEW BUCKS, and only in the short-term. listen to the shit you're saying and then tell me you're a "nationalist." I don't think you have the slightest idea what a nation is, or a community.

http://i.imgur.com/uYGIoqK.png Community?! sounds like COMMUNISM!


it is by definition impossible for a lolbertarian to be a nationalist in the true sense. a lolbertarian like Paul thinks a "nation" is a bunch of random people who happen to live in the same place.

Nebraska, at least in the Central/Eastern area that I live in, has a predominant Hispanic population. Most are very good, honest, hardworking people.


http://i.imgur.com/uYGIoqK.png BLEEP BLURP they work hard (ergo running our country into the ground is justified)


you want to know who I think of when I think "good, honest, hardworking" people? the native Whites of this country who are watching their own country drown in a muddy sea of coked up Aztecs while their boss pockets the savings.

"predominant" - try 8%. get back to me on how El Nebrasco is looking when it reaches oh say, 20, 30%.

I understand already when more and more of my paycheck goes to the government, and even more will go once I start paying taxes.

no, I was referring to being a parent and watching thuggish cholos moving into your community and sending their children to the school you pay taxes for. once you have a family that depends on your income for their livelihood, you'll hopefully be far less inclined to shill for a broken ass ideology that says we should throw the fate of our families and communities to the volatile winds of "the free market."

http://i.imgur.com/uYGIoqK.png oh you got laid off from your job? just...uh...start your own business, pussy!

Taxation is theft, no matter what angle you look at it.

in the most roundabout, autistic way, sure. but then again it's neither here nor there because you yourself say:

I'm not saying cut all taxation, but my money should be used in a much more intelligent way than it currently is.

no shit?

[Sir Suomi]

how exactly do you think Paul will be able to enact half of the changes he plans to enact unless he engages with, rather than dismantles, the status quo?

The President has a lot of influence on law making. I believe if he was able to get the American public to become aware of these issues, we'd see resounding changes to these things. Most people who favor the NSA are lead on to believe that it's "saved us from terror strikes", when there is no valid proof that it's done anything except illegally monitor both U.S citizens and foreign citizens including world leaders. As president he could spearhead the offensive against such things.


lol "undocumented labor" quit using this retarded neologism and call it what it is - border jumpers who enter the country illegally to receive cash under the table from traitorous business owners who are too greedy to give jobs to their fellow Americans.

I use the term that they are referred to in my sources. Trust me, I'm not very pleased with the state of immigration. I don't believe that people should be able to illegally cross our borders. However, I do believe if there are people who are willing to work for as little as they do, who follow the law, respect our people, they should be granted work visas at the minimum. I'm not in favor of spending American tax dollars on illegal immigrants, however. To put things simply, if they don't put the dough in the oven, they don't get to taste the cookies. If they are paying taxes however and contributing to businesses at both a local and international level, they have the right to stay and work.

also, refer back to my earlier point about those grapes. before we imported cholos, those jobs were filled by low-skill Americans who were happy to have them.

America workforce mentality has changed drastically. Do you think the average American is willing to work long hours doing heavily physically demanding jobs for very little pay/benefits/vacation/etc? Hell no. We're a lazy culture. A complete removal of these workers would result in loss of profit for businesses and an increase of food prices for consumers. So unless you want to pay an arm and a leg for a salad next time, you have to acknowledge the fact that in the least our agricultural sector needs these workers.


here's what you're not getting - importing millions of thuggish cholos into our communities is contributing to ever-increasing alienation among Americans who feel like foreigners in their own country.

I've already addressed this issue above. However, I will reiterate what I previously said. I don't support unregulated immigration into our nation. Those who are found to be a hazard to our communities should be deported along with their family. However, the average Hispanic who is simply keeping his head down and working should be allowed to maintain a working visa along with a road towards citizenship.

lolbertarians don't get this, so I'll describe it for you: in a high-trust society (here's what it looked like (http://www.virtualteen.org/forums/showthread.php?t=228004)) crime was low, people felt safe, at home, someplace they belonged among people who were like them and shared their language, culture and values.

Here's what you don't seem to understand. America will never return to those days. Due to international trading, mass communication, and today's media influences, we shall never be able to return back to those days. Wonder why? Because cultures naturally change over time.

listen to the shit you're saying and then tell me you're a "nationalist."

America has no long-standing culture to stand by. We're a young nation composed of people from different nations, languages, and customs. We've been like that since the beginning of our nation. There is no standing principal to base a Nationalist ideal around America. At most we can achieve Patriotism, which we normally succeed in. Nationalism is literally impossible to have as an American.

Places like Europe, however, are different. Theyhavehad long standing cultures for hundreds or even thousands of years. These people have a right to stand up against things like multiculturalism. Especially when the invading Islamic culture simply is not compatible with European culture. Hispanic culture, while having contrasts, is relatively the same as American culture, if we want to say the Americas really have one. Wonder why? Because they were both heavily influenced by European cultures who were compatible back in the Old World.


it is by definition impossible for a lolbertarian to be a nationalist in the true sense.

Let me go over this again.

America = Libertarian viewpoints

Europe = Nationalistic viewpoints, at least regarding the preservation of culture. Economically wise I disagree, but it's been proven that European nations bode well with large governmental influences.


"predominant" - try 8%. get back to me on how El Nebrasco is looking when it reaches oh say, 20, 30%.

My city is roughly 10%. A neighboring city is almost 30%. We have a city roughly an hour away with over 60%. Our largest city even has roughly 14%. I live here. Trust me when I say our Hispanic population is definitely noticeable.




image (http://i.imgur.com/uYGIoqK.png) oh you got laid off from your job? just...uh...start your own business, pussy!

Businesses deliver profits. They're not there to make everyone feel happy. If a business can't afford to keep you hired, why is that they're fault for say? Are they supposed to keep everyone hired until they're bankrupt, and then have everyone poor and without a job?

[Judean Zealot]

Sir Suomi

I must have some sort of reading problem, so maybe you can help me. What does it say in your sig following 'libertarian'?

[PinkFloyd]

Well seeing as he may very well be racist, sexist, and homophobic, I don't like him one bit. He pulls stunts and then tries to validate them in ridiculous ways. I don't know politics too well, so sorry if my post isn't exactly stellar... haha

[Sir Suomi]

Sir Suomi

I must have some sort of reading problem, so maybe you can help me. What does it say in your sig following 'libertarian'?

You sir must have a reading problem. I've clearly stated that I favor Nationalism for Europe, not America. Europe needs nationalism, at least for preservation of culture. America. Does. Not.

Different areas require different ways of control. In America, we are based off the principal that government needs an extremely limited role in our lives. In Europe, for most of it's history, this has not been the case.

Fuckin' Christ if it's really an issue I'll put it down from my signature if it'll start a nitpicking argument.

[Judean Zealot]

You sir must have a reading problem.

As I've already admitted, dear. :)

[Jean Poutine]

You sir must have a reading problem. I've clearly stated that I favor Nationalism for Europe, not America. Europe needs nationalism, at least for preservation of culture. America. Does. Not.

Different areas require different ways of control. In America, we are based off the principal that government needs an extremely limited role in our lives. In Europe, for most of it's history, this has not been the case.

Fuckin' Christ if it's really an issue I'll put it down from my signature if it'll start a nitpicking argument.

We have a saying here : ce qui est bon pour pitou est bon pour minou, or "what's good for puppy is good for kitty".

How in the Hell does America, or let's make it North America, does not "need" nationalism? Have you been outside lately? Montreal is about to become a minority francophone city. It will happen in my lifetime. You're saying we should just let it happen because, tough, we haven't been around long enough? That immigrants who got here 3 years ago and do not speak a single word of French have just as much right to this land as me, an old-stock Acadian descendant? A land where generations and generations of my people have lived, sweat on, and died in? What have you smoked? I want some.

Here's a newsflash : the age of a culture does not matter one single bit. If you've ever gone to Europe or interacted with Europeans I'm sure you've noticed that North Americans are very different folks from Europeans. I may be from Quebec, but I fucking despise the French because they are a bunch of smarmy, whiny dipshits, complaining all the time about how France and the French are better than us in every way and if there's a flaw we do not appreciate here, it's incessant complaining about a nation in which you are a guest, and its people who're hosting your dipshit ass.

Despite some Americans' stubborn refusal to admit it, our roots are here and we do have a culture, and thinking that we are a generic, cultureless folk is buying into Europe's fucking insipid propaganda that they spread because Europeans are dipshits on the whole and are jealous because they're pretty much all speaking English. Thanks to whom? 'Murrika!

America is just about guns, cowboys, barbecue and fast food, right? Have you not given a thought to the idea that America is today THE cultural powerhouse and is in fact exerting its influence on a global scale that has never been seen in the history of the world? You can agree or not with the values it conveys, you can think it's worse than so-called "high culture" but the truth is that European culture today is nothing compared to the American cultural powerhouse.

What's fucking modern European culture? In my city, we just demolished a statue some French dumbass made that was just a bunch of white cubes shitting up our centuries-old plaza. That culture? Name me a French playwright alive today that's even a tenth as good as Molière. You can't, can you? So why is it worth protecting and American culture isn't? It's certainly not qualitatively better. In fact, you know what, fuck Molière. Michel Tremblay is better because he speaks to me as a Quebecer, of the struggle of my people and their values. Next to Les belles-soeurs, Tartuffe or Le malade imaginaire are steamy piles of shit.

On the basis of time? Okay, then answer this : what does that have to do with anything? Do you not respect a friend's house even if they haven't lived there long? Can hobos move in with you and shit up your stuff because you've moved to that new house a month ago? What the fuck?

It's true that North American culture was created by mixing people, but it is greater and independent from the sum of its parts now. Why can't this continue in the modern day? The huge difference that you are blatantly ignoring is that in its early years, all immigration that came to North America was white. There may be different European cultures, but all in all they managed to blend in well together because they shared common values, even though there still were snags at first. They integrated and diluted themselves into the melting pot. The immigrants that come here nowadays are on the whole, not white. They don't share our values as much as the European immigrants and they seem to think that integration is optional and not a mandatory part of coexistence. The American melting pot doesn't exist anymore, I'm sad to report. And that's why North American nationalism is more important than ever.

American culture (and Anglo-Canadian, and Quebecer, and so on) all exist. They are all different from the sum of the parts that composed them and worthy of protection. We're not fucking hyphen-Americans or hyphen-Canadians or hyphen-Quebecers even any longer and it's time to recognize this. If strangers will not assimilate completely to the host culture that so gracefully allowed them to stay then they can fuck right back off where they came from and get shot by the Cartel or beheaded by ISIS. We have every single right to preserve ourselves, just as Europeans and every damn people on the planet do. Stop thinking of North Americans as rootless, detached, uncultured folk that do not deserve to protect their culture because they haven't existed long enough. We have our own artists, folklore, values and mindset just like any other civilization and they are as great as any other culture's. What is wrong with you?

[phuckphace]

you can add "Americans want to live in a deracinated, identity-less trash culture, it's all we're good for" to the already myriad reasons why lolbertarians will never win an election in 1,488 years.

who needs a community & homeland when you've got liburtiez and the free market?!?!

[Vlerchan]

I think all of these things are something a lot of people from both sides of the political spectrum can agree upon.
Sure. Ron Paul holds lots of positions that [social] liberals and [fiscal] conservatives can agree on. But he also holds lots of positions that divide both - and that's the problem.

His positions on monetary policy are just god-fucking awful.

Like any form of government can provide this without huge governmental involvement, a.k.a taxes.
Lots of the policies I support to combat poverty involve prompting changes to institutional arrangements.

But I don't see an inherent problem in increased taxation regardless.

>Implying that a Free Market wouldn't allow cheap insurance companies to be available to these people.
Yes.

https://www.aeaweb.org/aer/top20/53.5.941-973.pdf

This is one of the most famous papers in 20th century economics. It's also written by a neoclassical.

lolbertarians don't get this, so I'll describe it for you: in a high-trust society (here's what it looked like) crime was low, people felt safe, at home, someplace they belonged among people who were like them and shared their language, culture and values.
http://2378nh2nfow32gm3mb25krmuyy.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Violence-Stylized-2-1024x702.png
http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2011/06/long-term-trend-in-homicide-rates.html

N.B. I think the spike after the 50s is for the most part down to there being more people of 16 - 30 - and in particular 18 - 24: the age where people are most prone to committing crime - and not a product of the civil rights movement or whatever. There's one ultra-interesting comment I noticed in the discussion on MR though.

Sure, the U.K. has a low rate of homicides – the negative effects of centuries of racism, imperialism, and slavery, have been externalized to Zimbabwe, South Africa, India, etc… In the U.S., because of its historically unique pattern of contiguous expansion (as opposed to acquiring far-flung overseas colonies), and of importing slaves (as opposed to enslaving people in said far-flung overseas colonies), the U.S. internalized the negative effects that Europeans where able to externalize via decolonization.

Yeah? As for feeling safe: 89% of US men feel safe walking alone at night (http://www.gallup.com/poll/155402/Women-Feel-Less-Safe-Men-Developed-Countries.aspx).

---

I also more-or-less agree with Sir Suomi on US culture.

[Drewboyy]

I'm no expert here or anything but if you are able to get that much of a lead on the rest of your competition you are doing something right...and I don't see anything he is doing that makes him idiotic or evil.

[phuckphace]

When the Austrian School sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending phuckphace. They’re not sending Stronk Serb. They’re sending people that have lots of Alex Jones gold, and they’re bringing that Alex Jones gold with them. They’re bringing Laffer curves. They’re bringing tax cuts. They’re myopic losers. And some, I assume, are good people. heil Hitler.

[Sir Suomi]

How in the Hell does America, or let's make it North America, does not "need" nationalism? Have you been outside lately? Montreal is about to become a minority francophone city. It will happen in my lifetime. You're saying we should just let it happen because, tough, we haven't been around long enough?

You're missing my point. I do not, and let me repeat, do not support 100% open borders of any kind for America, or really any nation in general. This is both a national security risk, and will lead to what parts of our nation is experiencing. However, I believe that work visas and a streamlined approach to citizenship should be allowed for those individuals who are deemed to be beneficial to the nation. This would include those without criminal offenses, who are willing to work, who are willing to pay a tax like a regular citizen, and who are willing to assimilate into the indigenous cultural norms.

That immigrants who got here 3 years ago and do not speak a single word of French have just as much right to this land as me, an old-stock Acadian descendant?

My great-grandparents did not speak one ounce of English when they entered America from Finland. They settled in Maine, and my grandfather along with other Finns worked their asses off, eventually gaining citizenship after he taught himself English, and later on served in the Second World War. Are you saying that he didn't have a right to this land? Or did he, simply because he was white?


Despite some Americans' stubborn refusal to admit it, our roots are here and we do have a culture

My point here is that we don't have enough of one to be able to clearly state this is our specific culture. All of our customs are derived from other nations who have had time to develop a culture.

Now let's say everyone in America spoke the same language, followed to same religion, shared the same customs, and all shared similar ancestors, I'd say Nationalism would be acceptable here. This is not the case however. No matter how you look at it, to this day we are still composed of people from different ethnic backgrounds, customs, religions, and languages. We are literally a nation of immigrants, the mixing pot of the world.

On the basis of time? Okay, then answer this : what does that have to do with anything? Do you not respect a friend's house even if they haven't lived there long? Can hobos move in with you and shit up your stuff because you've moved to that new house a month ago? What the fuck?

I addressed this above.


What is wrong with you?

That's a question I'd like to be able to answer.

[Seahawks15]

No chance of that racist and sexist tyrant to step foot in the Oval Office,he's digging his grave just like Mitt Romney did with running his mouth too much.He's not an idiot though,he knows how to get voters roused up and stir the pot.

[Jean Poutine]

However, I believe that work visas and a streamlined approach to citizenship should be allowed for those individuals who are deemed to be beneficial to the nation. This would include those without criminal offenses, who are willing to work, who are willing to pay a tax like a regular citizen, and who are willing to assimilate into the indigenous cultural norms.

No. Even that is too much. The borders need to be hermetically closed off for a couple of years while we work on fully integrating the ones that are already inside.

Losing population may even be beneficial to us in the long term, so it may be worthwhile to just keep it at zero forever. Slowing and reverting growth and all that.

My great-grandparents did not speak one ounce of English when they entered America from Finland. They settled in Maine, and my grandfather along with other Finns worked their asses off, eventually gaining citizenship after he taught himself English, and later on served in the Second World War. Are you saying that he didn't have a right to this land? Or did he, simply because he was white?

Now you're the one missing my point. He did, because he was willing to integrate.

My point here is that we don't have enough of one to be able to clearly state this is our specific culture. All of our customs are derived from other nations who have had time to develop a culture.

That's absolute bullshit and you know it too. Not all of our customs are derived from other cultures. There are many, many local innovations in folklore and customs that come from a people living in a different climate, through a different history, having a different way of life. After centuries in these conditions, it's literally impossible that all that we are is just second-hand shit. One only has to look at gastronomy to see this is true.

I mean, your nick is "Sir Finland". Are you Finnish in any regards but ancestry? Do you speak the language? If not, I have one up on you, but my nick still isn't "Jacques Chiera".

It's not my problem that most Anglos are in denial on this subject; over here we're well aware of this. The French are foreigners to us, just like the English, the Germans, the Chinese, etc because it's plain to us that we don't really have much in common except language, and even that we don't use it the same way they do. The French will be the first to tell you that we're North Americans who simply happen to speak French, and for once I agree with them. You're just not opening your eyes and embracing what you are. You have a typically colonial inferiority complex. It's time to get over it.

Hell, here's an example : I keep getting called a frog despite the fact that we don't eat frogs here. It's as ridiculous to me as my calling you a limey would be to you. But you guys don't generally see it that way because you think that you (and by extension, myself) are simply uprooted Europeans. Have some pride, you're more than that.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7d/Censusdivisions-ethnic.png/1024px-Censusdivisions-ethnic.png

You'll notice that two groups have their heads on straight : Maritimers (well, mostly) and Quebecers/Acadians/other French descendants in Canada.

Now let's say everyone in America spoke the same language, followed to same religion, shared the same customs, and all shared similar ancestors, I'd say Nationalism would be acceptable here. This is not the case however. No matter how you look at it, to this day we are still composed of people from different ethnic backgrounds, customs, religions, and languages. We are literally a nation of immigrants, the mixing pot of the world.

They did, at one point in time. As I said, until relatively recently, almost all immigration to the New World was white. These immigrants integrated well and in fact were generally fully integrated by the 2nd generation. This situation where more and more people do not speak a word of English, follow completely foreign religions and have almost nothing in common with the base population is relatively new. There is no melting pot anymore.

Even though there were a true melting pot before, you're ignoring the simple and true fact than North American culture is different from the sum of its parts. The melting didn't result in a sort of stew with parts of this and parts of that, but a new whole.

[Perfectly Flawed]

Donald Trump is a walking reality TV show and it's pretty entertaining to watch. The funny part is he actually has legitimate supporters. He's a blessing for the Democrats because of just how nuts he is and what he's doing to the Republican party. He's so good at tearing the Republicans apart that part of me things he's an incognito Democrat spy trying to destroy them from the inside out.

If he's serious about what he's saying that's a whole new concern, but the chances of him actually being elected are so unbelievably slim that I don't think we have anything to worry about.

[Drewboyy]

No chance of that racist and sexist tyrant to step foot in the Oval Office,he's digging his grave just like Mitt Romney did with running his mouth too much.He's not an idiot though,he knows how to get voters roused up and stir the pot.

He is not racist or sexist, I don't hear anything that comes out of his mouth that resembles either of those things.

Donald Trump is a walking reality TV show and it's pretty entertaining to watch. The funny part is he actually has legitimate supporters. He's a blessing for the Democrats because of just how nuts he is and what he's doing to the Republican party. He's so good at tearing the Republicans apart that part of me things he's an incognito Democrat spy trying to destroy them from the inside out.

If he's serious about what he's saying that's a whole new concern, but the chances of him actually being elected are so unbelievably slim that I don't think we have anything to worry about.

Yes, he is very entertaining. Statistically however, he does have an extremely real chance of being elected and that's not a bad thing at all (at least compared to the other candidates.)

[SethfromMI]

He is not my first choice, but I think he would do a better job at some of the other candidates out there. right now I would lean towards Dr. Ben Carson. As smart as he is and as good a he would be though, I do not think he is popular enough to get a lot of the votes. shame really

[Perfectly Flawed]

Yes, he is very entertaining. Statistically however, he does have an extremely real chance of being elected and that's not a bad thing at all (at least compared to the other candidates.)

Someone that extremely right wing has a very low chance of winning. He has about 34% of the GOP vote which isn't that much of the entire population and the GOP is actively trying to get him removed from the votes in multiple swing states which will give a potential free win to the Democrats by diluting the voting pool.

He is not my first choice, but I think he would do a better job at some of the other candidates out there. right now I would lean towards Dr. Ben Carson. As smart as he is and as good a he would be though, I do not think he is popular enough to get a lot of the votes. shame really

Ben Carson proposed drone strikes on US and Mexican soil to stop illegal immigration. As one person put it, Ben Carson is the dumbest smart person they have ever heard.

[SethfromMI]

Someone that extremely right wing has a very low chance of winning. He has about 34% of the GOP vote which isn't that much of the entire population and the GOP is actively trying to get him removed from the votes in multiple swing states which will give a potential free win to the Democrats by diluting the voting pool.



Ben Carson proposed drone strikes on US and Mexican soil to stop illegal immigration. As one person put it, Ben Carson is the dumbest smart person they have ever heard.

lol I cant testify because I had not heard him say that, but he says many smart things. the dumbest out of all those running would be Clinton or Sanders , though some of the Republicans in the running are not the brightest either. but you know what, we need a president who will stop immigration. maybe not with drone strikes, but not like Obama who says anyone can come in, it doesn't matter and we will pay you for doing so

[Drewboyy]

[QUOTE=Perfectly Flawed;3213384]Someone that extremely right wing has a very low chance of winning. He has about 34% of the GOP vote which isn't that much of the entire population and the GOP is actively trying to get him removed from the votes in multiple swing states which will give a potential free win to the Democrats by diluting the voting pool.



That is not a lot of the population. That is a lot compared to the rest of the candidates though.

[StoppingTom]

Someone that extremely right wing has a very low chance of winning. He has about 34% of the GOP vote which isn't that much of the entire population and the GOP is actively trying to get him removed from the votes in multiple swing states which will give a potential free win to the Democrats by diluting the voting pool.



Ben Carson proposed drone strikes on US and Mexican soil to stop illegal immigration. As one person put it, Ben Carson is the dumbest smart person they have ever heard.

Just for the sake of clarification, Carson said he supported drone strikes on the tunnels/caves smugglers use for transportation as opposed to drone strikes on actual people.

I don't particularly feel any which way on Carson, I'm probably not gonna vote for him anyways.

[Emerald Dream]

Let's please stay on-topic. If you want to discuss Obama's stance on immigration, then make another thread.

[mattsmith48]

He is not my first choice, but I think he would do a better job at some of the other candidates out there. right now I would lean towards Dr. Ben Carson. As smart as he is and as good a he would be though, I do not think he is popular enough to get a lot of the votes. shame really

A guy who thinks the earth is 6000 yrs old and gay marriage leads to bestiality and pedophilia is not smart and the fact someone that stupid got a degree and is a neurosurgeon is kinda impressive

[Uniquemind]

Well Donald Trump made a pledge today not to run as an independent candidate if he ends up not getting the Republican nomination.


We'll see if him doing that hurts his base support or not.

From what I hear there is some backlash because his popularity flowed from a rebel "I'll do what i want by my own rules" reputation and signing any pledge looks like he's surrendering power.

[lliam]

Although Donald Trump, isn't my prob, I still wonder why such old men, who are just few years near death, want to be president.

[Uniquemind]

Although Donald Trump, isn't my prob, I still wonder why such old men, who are just few years near death, want to be president.

It's their version of YOLO lifestyle I think.

[Porpoise101]

He is not racist or sexist, I don't hear anything that comes out of his mouth that resembles either of those things.
That's how most liberal Americans and probably some moderates perceive him. Perception, not policy matters nowadays.

[Drewboyy]

That's how most liberal Americans and probably some moderates perceive him. Perception, not policy matters nowadays.

And clueless children that listen to their parents and the media with no other sources.

[phuckphace]

at work last evening I wasted 30 minutes trying to help this 4'4" family of smelly ghouls who spoke broken, unintelligible English and communicated their dissatisfaction by squawking "¡NO! ¡NO! ¡NO!" I was never able to quite figure out what had these hard working folks who just came here for a better life actually wanted (they did need a shower, I can say that much.)

heil Trump.

[drunkbanana17]

I saw some of his tweets . Can he , please , take an IQ test ?

[phuckphace]

I saw some of his tweets . Can he , please , take an IQ test ?

he will but you have to vote for Golden Dawn first

[eric2001]

He's gonna get nominated because the other people running against him can't compete with his media savvy and thats what succeeds nowadays.

[Bull]

Just my opinion: I don't like what I hear from him and will not vote for him.

[drunkbanana17]

he will but you have to vote for Golden Dawn first



What ?!

[dxcxdzv]

That's funny, when you see that Donnie Trumpie wants to reinforce the frontiers of a country built on immigration.

[phuckphace]

That's funny, when you see that Donnie Trumpie wants to reinforce the frontiers of a country built on immigration.

mfw people think taking in a few thousand middle-class Germans in the 19th century is the same thing as taking in 20 million Mexican lumpenproles today

[dxcxdzv]

mfw people think taking in a few thousand middle-class Germans in the 19th century is the same thing as taking in 20 million Mexican lumpenproles today
Well, I just think it's funny.
It's not a few thousand middle-class german that I'm talking about. It's more about MayFlower, Irish and Italian immigrants, African slaves etc who made this country what it is. The US was born from de diversity of the world, everyone's got different origins but all reunited for the "Liberty and pursuit of Happiness".
I'm not discrediting the US immigration policy (actual or Trump's will) but I just think it's funny. Talking about the "American people" and "The US belong to the Americans". Well.

[Judean Zealot]

mfw people think taking in a few thousand middle-class Germans in the 19th century is the same thing as taking in 20 million Mexican lumpenproles today

They did say the exact same things about the Irish immigrants in the 19th century.

[DriveAlive]

They did say the exact same things about the Irish immigrants in the 19th century.

Maybe if Trump was alive back then, we wouldn't have so much stupid St. Patty's Day crap at my school every year

[Judean Zealot]

Maybe if Trump was alive back then, we wouldn't have so much stupid St. Patty's Day crap at my school every year

They had people no less outspoken (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Know_Nothing) who tried.

[mattsmith48]

He said yesterday hes for letting Syrian refugees in when most of them are Muslim which is the 2nd most hated group of people bby the Republican party in but Mexicans he wants to deport them and when that doesn't work, spoiler alert, he will put them in concentration camps

[Judean Zealot]

I say Incitatus (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incitatus) would make a better ruler than Trump.

[dxcxdzv]

They did say the exact same things about the Irish immigrants in the 19th century.
Very probably, but it's a fact that USA have been built on immigration, moreover on the Hope.
Closing the frontiers is disowning this heritage.

But it's just a part of Donnie's politic, I'm not an expert about his campaign but seriously, as European, he scares me.

[phuckphace]

I really don't think Trump will win, for several reasons, but a few things you can/should take away from his campaign

taking away Trump's personality cult and flamboyant image, there's nothing especially noteworthy about his platform - this is basic Populism 101. close the borders, create jobs for Americans, etc. etc. the key is the appeal to the middle class. there is an enormous, gaping hole in our politics that a true populist party could easily fill - but it seems nobody but Trump has caught on yet.

if the GOP actually wanted to win, it would take notes from Trump's campaign and follow it up next election cycle with a similar platform. instead these pseudocons are not only going out of their way to distance themselves from Trump but are actually speaking loudly and often about how amazing immigration really is (um excuse me xenophobe shitlord, haven't you heard of the Mayflower?!) you'd think after their upcoming 2016 defeat they'd learn, but they won't. they're going to lose big and keep losing until they go full phuckphace, and not a moment sooner. heard it here first!

[phuckphace]

it may have been this thread or another one but I recall Vlerchan asking about THE DONALD'S economic plan(s), here's his tax plan (https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/tax-reform).

notably he's going for a one-time discount for businesses bringing their hoarded cash from overseas, with a flat tax topping out at 15%. perhaps most relevant to VTers: no tax at all on individuals making less than 25K a year.

opinions?

[USMC276]

I think hes acting like Hitler but he as no chance of being president because even tho the US is a stupid country there not that stupid
polls show him beating Hillary one on one.

i don't see whats so radical about wanting to remove ILLEGAL immigrants from America

[phuckphace]

polls show him beating Hillary one on one.

i don't see whats so radical about wanting to remove ILLEGAL immigrants from America

protip, posts by him should be passed over unread, your frontal lobes will thank you

I've noted before that there doesn't seem to be a middle ground here, you either want unlimited third world immigration or you're a xenophobe nativist. also lol at the "Right" using the word "nativist" it's how you know the Republi-kin party has been completely and utterly cucked. imagine Eisenhower saying that with a straight face

[mattsmith48]

polls show him beating Hillary one on one.

i don't see whats so radical about wanting to remove ILLEGAL immigrants from America

Hitler wanted to deport all jews from Germany when he realized its impossible he decided to kill them instead

[USMC276]

Hitler wanted to deport all jews from Germany when he realized its impossible he decided to kill them instead

don't remember reading anywhere, that the nazis originally planned on deporting all the jews out of Europe. I do remember them deporting jews into ghettos in Europe though, which subsequently lead to the extermination of them.

So, your perception that Trump and Hitler had similar plans fall apart.


Jews = legal citizens in Europe


U.S illegals = not legal citizens in America


An illegal act = punishment (which is deportation for someone who entered a nation illegally)

[tonymontana99]

If he gets nominated, he'll win. The only decent candidate the Democrats have to offer is Jim Webb, he seemed like the only sane, moderate and trustworthy person in that debate. Hillary's questionable reputation will certainly hurt her if she wins the nom, people just don't trust her. There's plenty of material to use against her and her fan base doesn't look too smart from the comments I read online (some of them even say the only reason they'll vote for her is because she's a woman). If Bernie runs the entire globalist/NWO/corporate shills/neo-cons -- and even the average Joe -- will implode of fear from the possibility of having a socialist take over a capitalist country. Good luck convincing people to abandon what built their country's strength in favor of a system that's forever been associated with failed states like the USSR. That won't happen. So either way, Trump wins. They'll rather take a hit in their profits from all the tariffs and nationalist tendencies he will create than risk losing all their money because of a socialist. Trump's success is inherently tied to Sanders. If you want Trump to Make America Great Again, you must first Feel the Bern.

Sanders' only support will come from white guilt-ridden teenagers who happened to read the Communist Manifesto and think Marx was the greatest person of all time. Literally all of his supporters are Occupy Wall Street-tier losers who blame their failures on "muh rich 1%" and think taxing everyone at 90% will solve everything. You only need to visit Sanders' Reddit page and see what type of people will unironically be voting for that cuckold.

[Bull]

Trump's campaign is the best thing to happen to American politics in a long time, regardless of whether or not he wins. he's exposed the GOP, Dems, and lolbertarians for the incompetent cucks that they are. that is all.

I agree with this part of @phuckphase statement. My opinion, however, is that Trump is an egoistical, arrogant, pompous blowhard! I would not vote for him.

[tonymontana99]

I agree with this part of @phuckphase statement. My opinion, however, is that Trump is an egoistical, arrogant, pompous blowhard! I would not vote for him.

If that's the only reason you're not voting for Mr. Trump then you're exactly the type of person that is ruining this country. This man has exposed both parties and several media outlets for what they are -- shills -- and yet you only care about the way he speaks and not the content of what he says. All of the attacks against him have been made by the types of people phuckphace and I have described. Literally. People who only care about bread and circus and vote for who tells them how cucked their country is -- for the first time in years we have a man willing to spend 4 years of his life fixing his sinking country and all the liberal cucks complain about is his tone. God damn, I want off this ride...

[Bull]

If that's the only reason you're not voting for Mr. Trump then you're exactly the type of person that is ruining this country. This man has exposed both parties and several media outlets for what they are -- shills -- and yet you only care about the way he speaks and not the content of what he says. All of the attacks against him have been made by the types of people phuckphace and I have described. Literally. People who only care about bread and circus and vote for who tells them how cucked their country is -- for the first time in years we have a man willing to spend 4 years of his life fixing his sinking country and all the liberal cucks complain about is his tone. God damn, I want off this ride...

All I hear coming out of DT's mouth, and too many others, is based on a lack of knowledge and or pure hatred of segments of the population. I am waiting to hear a plan based on factual information from someone who wants to be leader of the greatest country on this planet. FYI, I am a Republican! You are welcome to your opinion, as is everyone. The thread is "Opinions on Donald Trump". I gave my opinion and the facts I stated support my opinion.

[Porpoise101]

If that's the only reason you're not voting for Mr. Trump then you're exactly the type of person that is ruining this country. This man has exposed both parties and several media outlets for what they are -- shills -- and yet you only care about the way he speaks and not the content of what he says. All of the attacks against him have been made by the types of people phuckphace and I have described. Literally. People who only care about bread and circus and vote for who tells them how cucked their country is -- for the first time in years we have a man willing to spend 4 years of his life fixing his sinking country and all the liberal cucks complain about is his tone. God damn, I want off this ride...
When you are talking about a person's integrity and how they will make decisions, it is important to take their persona into account because emotions are actually useful to gauge other's morals. In this sense it's ok to use emotions in conjunction with fact to make a decision for an election. You shouldn't be completely rational and you should definitely not be overemotional about it either.

[tonymontana99]

All I hear coming out of DT's mouth, and too many others, is based on a lack of knowledge and or pure hatred of segments of the population. I am waiting to hear a plan based on factual information from someone who wants to be leader of the greatest country on this planet. FYI, I am a Republican! You are welcome to your opinion, as is everyone. The thread is "Opinions on Donald Trump". I gave my opinion and the facts I stated support my opinion.

Sorry if I was disrespectful towards you, I thought you were a green square stoner hippie. You can check out his positions in his website https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions

I also don't understand why you say he hates segments of the population. I've been following every single speech he's been giving and all I see is hatred for criminals and the incompetent people that were put in charge of this country.

[Jinglebottom]

That guy with the weird ass hair? I don't know... he does seem to be controversial. At least in the US.

[tonymontana99]

When you are talking about a person's integrity and how they will make decisions, it is important to take their persona into account because emotions are actually useful to gauge other's morals. In this sense it's ok to use emotions in conjunction with fact to make a decision for an election. You shouldn't be completely rational and you should definitely not be overemotional about it either.

Pff you can say that about every person who has run for office since ever. Most of the candidates will fake anything in favor of more votes. This man clearly is not -- or at least he's faking it in a wrong way. The fact that he isn't pandering to any news outlet, cuckservative or brain dead liberal shows he has more integrity than any other person on that stage. He's saying what he believes in and not what the PC crowd wants to hear. Call it populism or whatever, but people are tired of seeing their country being robbed by everyone and exploited to the point where it cannot sustain itself.

[Bull]

Sorry if I was disrespectful towards you, I thought you were a green square stoner hippie. You can check out his positions in his website https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions

I also don't understand why you say he hates segments of the population. I've been following every single speech he's been giving and all I see is hatred for criminals and the incompetent people that were put in charge of this country.

Apology accepted. I must have not been clear, I did not mean DT was a hater, I was referring to others who are running for president. Sorry I was not more clear.

[Vlerchan]

it may have been this thread or another one but I recall @Vlerchan asking about THE DONALD'S economic plan(s), here's his tax plan.
I've given it a look and it's surprisingly not awful. Like from what I know from other Republican proposals it's the best of the bunch.

I can get behind the simplification of the tax code. For the last while I've been moving more towards a flat tax with generous exemptions. I'm not sure where the statistics he cites are from though. Like at the moment the bottom and second-to-bottom quintile don't file individual income tax (http://pgpf.org/Chart-Archive/0102_tax-rates) and this extends that to another 5% of the population. I would need to read a bit more into it in order to determine if it will be revenue-neutral - I've no clue about credits and so on. It's the right direction though considering wage polarisation that I imagine is going to be built-in to the rest of our working lives.

I believe at the moment the effective rate of corporation tax is somewhere between 15% and 20%. I don't see a problem with it. Though again I'm not sure if it's revenue-neutral.

U.S. aversion to inheritance taxation is something that's going to not stop existing so I suppose I can get over this.

I'm also good with closing loopholes.

It all depends on whether Trump could make this happen though. That's uncertain. He can fund his campaign but a lot of the people that will be voting on these bills can't. It does seem to have promise but I'm not sure I'm going to be delighted with the result the U.S. political arena pulls out.

don't remember reading anywhere, that the nazis originally planned on deporting all the jews out of Europe.
The Madagascar Plan was a proposal of the Nazi government of Germany to relocate the Jewish population of Europe to the island of Madagascar. Franz Rademacher, head of the Jewish Department of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs for the Nazi government, proposed the idea in June 1940, shortly before France's defeat in the Fall of France. The proposal called for the handing over of Madagascar, then a French colony, to Germany as part of the French surrender terms.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madagascar_Plan

But then Mufti managed to convince the Nazi leaders otherwise.

Jews = legal citizens in Europe

U.S illegals = not legal citizens in America
Jews were stripped of their citizenship. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_Laws#Reich_Citizenship_Law)

(Trump is Hitler.

QED.)

he only decent candidate the Democrats have to offer is Jim Webb, he seemed like the only sane, moderate and trustworthy person in that debate.
Webb's a Dixiecrat. I don't expect him to ever get more than 1% of Democrat support.

If Bernie runs the entire globalist/NWO/corporate shills/neo-cons -- and even the average Joe -- will implode of fear from the possibility of having a socialist take over a capitalist country. Good luck convincing people to abandon what built their country's strength in favor of a system that's forever been associated with failed states like the USSR.
Bernie Sanders is a Social Democrat. Lenin would have had him put up against a wall and shot.

The latest CNN Poll also seems to indicate that Sanders would win by roughly 9%. On average of all previous polls he's clear by 5.2%. (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_sanders-5565.html)

People who only care about bread and circus and vote for who tells them how cucked their country is -- for the first time in years we have a man willing to spend 4 years of his life fixing his sinking country and all the liberal cucks complain about is his tone.
There's two issues tied to Trump.

For the most part the President is weak. That is to say he relies to a huge extent on Congress. Most of the members of Congress are looking to secure future terms where their biggest competitors come from inside their own parties. Lawmakers tend to hit-the-deck when it comes to needing to deal with controversies. Trump is controversial.

Trump has to represent his nation abroad. Considering China's increasing assertiveness in the South China Sea - Russia's growing assertiveness in post-Soviet space - and the fact that inside his second term we might start seeing the Arctic become a much more important region - there's the need for a leader with diplomatic merit. Trump for sure doesn't have this.
It's questionable as to whether his tone is suited to the complexities of the international political-economy, where all sorts of interests exist.

You claimed that "[m]ost of the candidates will fake anything in favor of more votes" and these are the sort of men Trump will need to deal with.

[tonymontana99]

I've given it a look and it's surprisingly not awful. Like from what I know from other Republican proposals it's the best of the bunch.

I can get behind the simplification of the tax code. For the last while I've been moving more towards a flat tax with generous exemptions. I'm not sure where the statistics he cites are from though. Like at the moment the bottom and second-to-bottom quintile don't file individual income tax (http://pgpf.org/Chart-Archive/0102_tax-rates) and this extends that to another 5% of the population. I would need to read a bit more into it in order to determine if it will be revenue-neutral - I've no clue about credits and so on. It's the right direction though considering wage polarisation that I imagine is going to be built-in to the rest of our working lives.

I believe at the moment the effective rate of corporation tax is somewhere between 15% and 20%. I don't see a problem with it. Though again I'm not sure if it's revenue-neutral.

U.S. aversion to inheritance taxation is something that's going to not stop existing so I suppose I can get over this.

I'm also good with closing loopholes.

It all depends on whether Trump could make this happen though. That's uncertain. He can fund his campaign but a lot of the people that will be voting on these bills can't. It does seem to have promise but I'm not sure I'm going to be delighted with the result the U.S. political arena pulls out.


The Madagascar Plan was a proposal of the Nazi government of Germany to relocate the Jewish population of Europe to the island of Madagascar. Franz Rademacher, head of the Jewish Department of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs for the Nazi government, proposed the idea in June 1940, shortly before France's defeat in the Fall of France. The proposal called for the handing over of Madagascar, then a French colony, to Germany as part of the French surrender terms.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madagascar_Plan

But then Mufti managed to convince the Nazi leaders otherwise.


Jews were stripped of their citizenship. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_Laws#Reich_Citizenship_Law)

(Trump is Hitler.

QED.)


Webb's a Dixiecrat. I don't expect him to ever get more than 1% of Democrat support.


Bernie Sanders is a Social Democrat. Lenin would have had him put up against a wall and shot.

The latest CNN Poll also seems to indicate that Sanders would win by roughly 9%. On average of all previous polls he's clear by 5.2%. (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_sanders-5565.html)


There's two issues tied to Trump.

For the most part the President is weak. That is to say he relies to a huge extent on Congress. Most of the members of Congress are looking to secure future terms where their biggest competitors come from inside their own parties. Lawmakers tend to hit-the-deck when it comes to needing to deal with controversies. Trump is controversial.

Trump has to represent his nation abroad. Considering China's increasing assertiveness in the South China Sea - Russia's growing assertiveness in post-Soviet space - and the fact that inside his second term we might start seeing the Arctic become a much more important region - there's the need for a leader with diplomatic merit. Trump for sure doesn't have this.
It's questionable as to whether his tone is suited to the complexities of the international political-economy, where all sorts of interests exist.

You claimed that "[m]ost of the candidates will fake anything in favor of more votes" and these are the sort of men Trump will need to deal with.

Well, he says Putin and him would "get along" just fine. He also always stresses in his speeches that he doesn't hate the Chinese people, he says we just have "stupid leaders". I also like very much when he says we need an overhaul of our education system and that we need to pump out more scientists, engineers and STEM-field people to stay competitive. I can really see all the liberal arts/marxist indocrination camps being shut down. He hasn't released his Foreign Policy program yet, so I can't really much shill for him in that area. But regarding the Sanders v Trump poll, I'm sure the people I described earlier (the globalists, etc.) and the average Joe, after seeing all the ads and attacks Trump and the rest of the would-be candidates will throw at him, especially targetting his socialist idologies, I really can't see Bernie holding a candle against him. But I could be wrong. Either way, it probably won't affect me directly. I'm just in it for the dank memes, tbh.

[phuckphace]

I've given it a look and it's surprisingly not awful. Like from what I know from other Republican proposals it's the best of the bunch.

I figured you'd be pleasantly surprised. I knew better than to hope for a confiscatory scheme but these days we take what we can get.

[PinkFloyd]

Okay, let me start out by saying that Politics aren't exactly my thing. Don't bash me too hard if I say something stupid.

So far, I believe that Donald Trump is a complete dipshit. He has plans to build an entire fucking wall to separate the US and Mexico. There has been a similar project like that in Israel and the funding is going out and they've been going at it for a long, long time. I'm also not fond of him wanting to deport all illegal immigrants. That will destroy families and it's just plain irrational. So yeah, overall, he's an idiot that should not run a country as powerful as the US. I doubt he'd even be able to be a mayer of a town in the middle of no where in Kansas with like 10ish houses, a post office and nothing else.

[phuckphace]

Okay, let me start out by saying that Politics aren't exactly my thing. Don't bash me too hard if I say something stupid.

So far, I believe that Donald Trump is a complete dipshit. He has plans to build an entire fucking wall to separate the US and Mexico. There has been a similar project like that in Israel and the funding is going out and they've been going at it for a long, long time. I'm also not fond of him wanting to deport all illegal immigrants. That will destroy families and it's just plain irrational. So yeah, overall, he's an idiot that should not run a country as powerful as the US. I doubt he'd even be able to be a mayer of a town in the middle of no where in Kansas with like 10ish houses, a post office and nothing else.

I expect a little better from one of the few dudes on VT who's apparently a bona fide zero on the Kinsey scale. reach deep down into your cishet shitlord patriarch heart of hearts and reconsider if it's really all that 'illogical' to put the greater good of the country over a few anchor babies. I know you can do it bro, expecting gr8 things

[tonymontana99]

Okay, let me start out by saying that Politics aren't exactly my thing. Don't bash me too hard if I say something stupid.

So far, I believe that Donald Trump is a complete dipshit. He has plans to build an entire fucking wall to separate the US and Mexico. There has been a similar project like that in Israel and the funding is going out and they've been going at it for a long, long time. I'm also not fond of him wanting to deport all illegal immigrants. That will destroy families and it's just plain irrational. So yeah, overall, he's an idiot that should not run a country as powerful as the US. I doubt he'd even be able to be a mayer of a town in the middle of no where in Kansas with like 10ish houses, a post office and nothing else.

Why is it irrational to deport people who did not come to a country legally? I bet you're pro-open borders.

[Vlerchan]

Why is it irrational to deport people who did not come to a country legally? I bet you're pro-open borders.
There's just too many.

Deporting them all at this stage would be ruinous to a number of state economies - to a lesser extent the national one - and scouring the countryside for illegal immigrants would be an incredibly costly undertaking on-top.

[tonymontana99]

There's just too many.

Deporting them all at this stage would be ruinous to a number of state economies - to a lesser extent the national one - and scouring the countryside for illegal immigrants would be an incredibly costly undertaking on-top.

He does say the ones who aren't criminals will be able to return legally. So maybe it works if its done in phases throughout his term.

[Vlerchan]

He does say the ones who aren't criminals will be able to return legally. So maybe it works if its done in phases throughout his term.
It sounds like it would be simpler to pardon undocumented immigrants with the condition that their future residence is dependent on maintaining a clean slate.

If we got them registered and integrated into the white market it would also serve the goal of stopping them from undermining working class people where it occurs.

Well, he says Putin and him would "get along" just fine.
I'm not sure I believe this is a good thing.

He also always stresses in his speeches that he doesn't hate the Chinese people, he says we just have "stupid leaders".
I don't hate the Chinese. I would just prefer that we placed ourselves in a position to dictate the terms of the global market.

That means not giving them the run of major shipping roots or oil reserves. That means creating a situation where their efforts are channelled towards a March West.

But regarding the Sanders v Trump poll, I'm sure the people I described earlier (the globalists, etc.) and the average Joe, after seeing all the ads and attacks Trump and the rest of the would-be candidates will throw at him, especially targetting his socialist idologies, I really can't see Bernie holding a candle against him.
Unfortunate as it is, I hold the same lack of faith in the U.S. electorate.

[Porpoise101]

I don't hate the Chinese. I would just prefer that we placed ourselves in a position to dictate the terms of the global market.

Too late for that. The Pakistanis (evil as they are) have given the Chinese a port city giving them access to the Persian Gulf. So yeah they are going to overrun the Arabian Sea soon. Also they are trying to make deals with Malaysia and Brunei in order to promote more trade. Meanwhile India (our last hope) is being impeded by the Chinese. Did someone say Asian trade hegemony?

[JavierDolan]

Well, I think the question on everyone's lips is do we behead him or send him to the gallows?

Seriously though, he's a fucking idiot. I respect his opinions but he just has the wrong way of delivering them. He's sexist, racist, and has fucking retarded ideas about how to deal with illegal immigration. But overall I think it would be better to a republican president with shit ideas than an independent with shit ideas.

I still think he's pretty funny though.

Sanders all the way, not that either of them winning will affect me in anyway.

[hesaidhesaid]

It's quite clear. The candidates in all parties this year are of great use of the rhetoric argument...aka lots of fluffy words but not a lot of policy. Trump seems to have policy and tries to put everything together but I am reminded CONSTANTLY of the message from the great American film Citizen Kane:
'I can help the working man...you see I have property and wealth.'

But not necessarily the foresight or the empathy or the method for which to deal with the issue. If I had to pick one, I would vote for Sanders but then again...he could be seen as a socialist idealist.

[Porpoise101]

But not necessarily the foresight or the empathy or the method for which to deal with the issue. If I had to pick one, I would vote for Sanders but then again...he could be seen as a socialist idealist.
I've seen Sanders in the Senate and he knows how to work together so hopefully a watered down version of what he wants (which is too much) will pass. The thing I don't want is for 70% tax on $200k income earners. 70% to me should only be used for multi millionaires maybe.

[phuckphace]

his political bent aside, I can't see Prez Sanders working out too well. he's 74 now, and by the end of his second term he'd be pushing 84. that's well into the stage of your life where you should be at the nursing home doing crossword puzzles and getting totally tanked on prune juice. Reagan was an old geezer who ended up coming down with Alzheimer's not too long after he left office. who knows how early his brain started to deteriorate? suffice it to say the AARP crew doesn't need to be anywhere near the button that launches the nukes

[Uniquemind]

His poll numbers are slipping.

Ben Carson is giving Trump a run for his money. Pun intended!

[dysterian]

I lean more to the right wing, but even Donald Trump is a disgrace in my opinion. He's loud, and has no filter. Clinton doesn't look that great either. I prefer Ben Carson.

[Uniquemind]

I lean more to the right wing, but even Donald Trump is a disgrace in my opinion. He's loud, and has no filter. Clinton doesn't look that great either. I prefer Ben Carson.

If I were in the American political right, I'd be for Trump, because I find that on issues overall, there is a hypocrisy between their issues, and the image of wanting to be polite (aka: you call this the filter).


At the crux of it, certain positions on issues, cannot be sugar coated with a filter, because when you boil the point of things, the message is the same, and that reeks of corporate branding, which has served humanity so well thus far.

That's why Trump is popular though thus far.


So to me bluntness is not the problem, it's lack of specifics in answers to questions, and magical thinking that turns me off to him.

Ben Carson is not much better either, he's just got a quieter personality.

[phuckphace]

I lean more to the right wing, but even Donald Trump is a disgrace in my opinion. He's loud, and has no filter. Clinton doesn't look that great either. I prefer Ben Carson.

the blusteriness is part of his image to get votes. rich people get rich by being serious most of the time - you really don't think he would sit in a meeting with a potential client and bellow and belch in their faces, do you? I can't see even the most crass billionaire doing that. it's a shrewd and intentional calculation on his part, and it's working pretty well.

I mean, the guy's actual policies are okay but I don't like his tone so I'm voting for Dr. Famous Amos M.D. instead (the dude sounds like he's mumbling through a mouthful of syrup)

-----

I really don't like this "voting by how I feel about the candidate's public image" thing. I talk to people from Old Blighty who do this a lot "ye m8 I agree with the BNP on loads of issues and I think they have good plans but I'm voting Labour instead cus I'm not racist m8" *country keeps getting worse*

[Tris]

Egotistical.

[Uniquemind]

the blusteriness is part of his image to get votes. rich people get rich by being serious most of the time - you really don't think he would sit in a meeting with a potential client and bellow and belch in their faces, do you? I can't see even the most crass billionaire doing that. it's a shrewd and intentional calculation on his part, and it's working pretty well.

I mean, the guy's actual policies are okay but I don't like his tone so I'm voting for Dr. Famous Amos M.D. instead (the dude sounds like he's mumbling through a mouthful of syrup)

-----

I really don't like this "voting by how I feel about the candidate's public image" thing. I talk to people from Old Blighty who do this a lot "ye m8 I agree with the BNP on loads of issues and I think they have good plans but I'm voting Labour instead cus I'm not racist m8" *country keeps getting worse*

You know, because of that dynamic, when I read Revelation in the bible, I get a little bit closer to understanding why God just destroys almost everything of creation but a select few humans and animals of his choosing.

[Porpoise101]

I really don't like this "voting by how I feel about the candidate's public image" thing.
Do you mean how they are perceived or how they act in public?

[phuckphace]

Do you mean how they are perceived or how they act in public?

how they act (it's all an act)

like, apparently having the rat-pen manned by a polite and soft-spoken ratkeeper is preferable to actually doing something about the pen itself

[Salad_Baby]

I'm not from the USA, but I still think he's a bit of a bigot. I do think however that he's a fresh breeze of air onto the political scene littered with stale, identical politicians - he speaks his mind, and speaks, I assume, for a large number of the silent American people (going off his successes in the polls).

[phuckphace]

a bigoty bigot is exactly what we need right now

[Uniquemind]

a bigoty bigot is exactly what we need right now


Humanity only feels that way because it's got a lot of built up angst that needs to be let out every once in a while when the art of compromising fails to satisfy.

This happens in cycles, and usually humanity enters the dark ages when this happens because logic goes out the door. I think the last time it happened on a large expressive scale was the civil rights movement, and before that it was the civil war, being the main big ones.

[phuckphace]

Humanity only feels that way because it's got a lot of built up angst that needs to be let out every once in a while when the art of compromising fails to satisfy.

This happens in cycles, and usually humanity enters the dark ages when this happens because logic goes out the door. I think the last time it happened on a large expressive scale was the civil rights movement, and before that it was the civil war, being the main big ones.

this election cycle is literally the last one that bigots have a chance of winning. if they don't win this time, the EBT crew with its numerical strength will give us a 75-year Democratic stranglehold (much like Mexico's PRI) and the bigots will have to live in ghettos and wear a yellow star

[phuckphace]

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/us-china-trade-reform

The Trump Plan Will Achieve The Following Goals:

Bring China to the bargaining table by immediately declaring it a currency manipulator.
Protect American ingenuity and investment by forcing China to uphold intellectual property laws and stop their unfair and unlawful practice of forcing U.S. companies to share proprietary technology with Chinese competitors as a condition of entry to China’s market.
Reclaim millions of American jobs and reviving American manufacturing by putting an end to China’s illegal export subsidies and lax labor and environmental standards. No more sweatshops or pollution havens stealing jobs from American workers.
Strengthen our negotiating position by lowering our corporate tax rate to keep American companies and jobs here at home, attacking our debt and deficit so China cannot use financial blackmail against us, and bolstering the U.S. military presence in the East and South China Seas to discourage Chinese adventurism.


Vlerchan - awaiting your expert analysis. sorry mods for the triple post.

[Vlerchan]

Bring China to the bargaining table by immediately declaring it a currency manipulator.
"Manipulation" makes it sound all conspiratorial doesn't it. In fact a number of U.S. allies engage in the same practices. It's also arguable QE has similar intentions. China just gets singled out because it's - well - China.

It also won't bring China to the table.

Protect American ingenuity and investment by forcing China to uphold intellectual property laws and stop their unfair and unlawful practice of forcing U.S. companies to share proprietary technology with Chinese competitors as a condition of entry to China’s market.
This is an excuse to impose punitive tariffs. China isn't going to be "forced" into a thing.

Best bet on this issue is to get China into TPP - inevitable I believe - but Trump opposes TPP.

Reclaim millions of American jobs and reviving American manufacturing by putting an end to China’s illegal export subsidies and lax labor and environmental standards. No more sweatshops or pollution havens stealing jobs from American workers.
i.e. Tariffs.

China's starting to lose its comparative advantage in manufacturing and deindustrialise so this is useless as a non-short term initiative. Even in the short-term though there's no garuantees these firms will return to.the U.S.

Strengthen our negotiating position by lowering our corporate tax rate to keep American companies and jobs here at home, attacking our debt and deficit so China cannot use financial blackmail against us, and bolstering the U.S. military presence in the East and South China Seas to discourage Chinese adventurism.
I'm good with a lower corp. tax rate. Like I've said before I have a hard time believing it's going to retain firms though.
I'm good with the deficit being reduced at this stage. However not because I'm scared of China.
I'm good with a U.S. presence in the South China Sea.
It sounds like he's diluting to appeal to the Republican base here nonetheless

[Uniquemind]

The only way Trump can accomplish what he wants to, is if he's keeping some giant secret intellectual genius within his corporation, who has mathematically figured out and solved the problem of why Quantum mechanics and Special Relativity don't jive together.

If Trump is hiding away some genius whose theories can leapfrog all of humanity's scarcity of resource's problems, and patent such technology under an American label. (Actually don't patent that, China would hack it).

Then his campaign claims are possible in a realistic sense, but as of now he doesn't have facts on his side, just an observable truth that he says what appeals to a sizable chunk of the Republican electorate.

[phuckphace]

Vlerchan - so China is losing its industry and comparative advantage, which raises the question "where will they go next?"

as a side note it's pretty funny to me that one of the unintended results of going to China in the first place was industrial-scale copying and reverse engineering. if you build a factory in China they'll get the blueprint and build a shittier clone that undercuts your profits.

Confucius say "what a dumb gweilo."

[Allbutanillusion]

Quick answer...I like him because he doesn't follow along with the PC crowd and subscribe to all of the PC nonsense ( the entitlement issues that illegal immigrants have...key word..ILLEGAL...breaking the law thus they are not owed a damn thing .., not a single damn thing. The arrogance they display by even making that statement..that Americans owe them free health care..free education, free schooling , etc is just ridiculous, and unfortunately they are already receiving a lot of that, coating the tax payer billions. people try to turn it into a race thing..whites against everyone else for political or financial gain but it really is not...it is more of an upstanding citizens against law breakers who want to snub their nose at the law!!!)Now with that being stated I don't think that he phrases everything the best way that it could be phrased abrupt .

Question.... if he was non white person and saying the exact same things that is being stated would it be viewed as controversial or racist as it is by some now.

If the answer is NO then that just supports my suggestion on the double standards to demonize white people.

Remember DR. Carson said some controversial things and didn't even receive half of the press as if Trump had same things.

[Vlerchan]

[..] so China is losing its industry and comparative advantage, which raises the question "where will they go next?"
It's looking to orientate itself towards being another one of those middle-class service-sector economies. Though I can imagine a large part of the diversification will be towards capital-intensive industries and IT. It's fielding a formidable amount of STEM graduates. Though I'm no China-analyst.

I find a more interesting question is where will manufacturing head next [west africa] - and how long before it's automated out of existence thereafter.

[..] humanity's scarcity of resource's problems [..]
From the looks of it Trump intends for other nations to bear the bulk of the costs. I question whether that's so feasible though.

[Uniquemind]

It's looking to orientate itself towards being another one of those middle-class service-sector economies. Though I can imagine a large part of the diversification will be towards capital-intensive industries and IT. It's fielding a formidable amount of STEM graduates. Though I'm no China-analyst.

I find a more interesting question is where will manufacturing head next [west africa] - and how long before it's automated out of existence thereafter.


From the looks of it Trump intends for other nations to bear the bulk of the costs. I question whether that's so feasible though.

It's not feasible. Unless trump has a secret trick up his sleeve besides his art of the deal book.

Deal making is more than posturing. If smokescreen threats fail, you look weak.

Like I said trump better have a groundbreaking math and physics that unlocks barriers that are holding humanity back now if he wants to deliver.

[Vlerchan]

It's not feasible.
I would appreciate if 'It' was defined. Thank you.

[Porpoise101]

Quick answer...I like him because he doesn't follow along with the PC crowd and subscribe to all of the PC nonsense ( the entitlement issues that illegal immigrants have...key word..ILLEGAL...breaking the law thus they are not owed a damn thing .., not a single damn thing. The arrogance they display by even making that statement..that Americans owe them free health care..free education, free schooling , etc is just ridiculous, and unfortunately they are already receiving a lot of that, coating the tax payer billions. people try to turn it into a race thing..whites against everyone else for political or financial gain but it really is not...it is more of an upstanding citizens against law breakers who want to snub their nose at the law!!!)Now with that being stated I don't think that he phrases everything the best way that it could be phrased abrupt .
Well the way I think of it is nullification through the populus. Instead of jury nullification, a large section of the population has decided that deportation isn't the answer so it is just a populist move in the left (like marijuana legalization and the decision to not prosecute on the federal level). On the right (except for some farmers) the issue is the reverse. I think people just want reform in the law but are frustrated by gridlock. The problem is that people are going righter and righter and lefter (myself included) and lefter but in actuality it's probably the best if we all moved a little to the center. I can see clearly how both sides have over stepped bounds.

[Uniquemind]

I would appreciate if 'It' was defined. Thank you.

Trumps ideas and promises aren't = it's.

Ex: having other nations bare bulk of costs.

[Stephan]

Quite the laughing stock.

He runs simply for publicity, and so that he can sell his consumer products and advertise it to everyone in the world.

Even though many of his ramblings are viewed negatively, what makes people actually believe his says is primarily due to his primal confident and leadership skills he developed throughout his life as a real estate magnate. He instills people with his loud voices and actions, which captivate individuals to perceive he could actually change the US for the better or maybe for the worse

Not to mention .. he does have the money to spare and play around with

[phuckphace]

wow just wow at people people saying we can't deport a few million migrants. Holocaust denial, seriously? it's literally 5776

[lacey02]

I dont think I could trust him to lead the military or country. Just seems out there alot!

[HUSTLEMAN]

Trump is the biggest troll in American history.

[phuckphace]

I think Trump's biggest endorsement for normies is that he's near-totally despised by the mainstream media and pundits. it's generally a good rule of thumb to make sure those three-dimensional cartoon caricatures of human beings are in the opposite camp (so to speak).

Trump has had nothing but good things to say about Israel and has a Jewish son-in-law, but from listening to the MSM you'd think his campaign slogan is "Let's make America Judenfrei again" :lol3:

[Kahn]

My opinion is, his candidacy is a joke.

[phuckphace]

there once was a drug mule named Raúl
who thought being illegal was cool
but then Hitler returned, and all taco stands burned
and das Volk heiled for the rest of his rule!

[Vlerchan]

My opinion is, his candidacy is a joke.
I'd be more inclined to believe that he's attempting to carve-out a base so that he can devote himself to speaking after his inevitable defeat.

I'm certain this is Carson's actual aim.

[phuckphace]

I'd be more inclined to believe that he's attempting to carve-out a base so that he can devote himself to speaking after his inevitable defeat.

I'm certain this is Carson's actual aim.

I can't listen to Carson for more than 30 seconds before my eyelids get heavy and I doze off to sleep, dreaming of winning first prize in an antediluvian Triceratops race

can't imagine listening to him for a whole hour or so.

[Kahn]

He's attempting to carve-out a base so that he can devote himself to speaking after his inevitable defeat.

He's just a well of insight and knowledge.

0JsiGQMMoe4

[Vlerchan]

He's just a well of insight and knowledge.

Republican presidential front-runner Donald Trump said on Wednesday his plan for combating Islamic State militants involves targeting not just the group's fighters but also their families.

"When you get these terrorists, you have to take out their families," Trump said on Fox News. "They care about their lives, don't kid yourselves."

Trump said if he were president, he would try to avoid civilian deaths in going after the militant group, but he said the Obama administration was "fighting a very politically correct war."

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-trump-islamic-state-idUSKBN0TL2FA20151202#r4wGVUgfbOFXOMFK.97

I prefer the term 'fountain'. With Trump, you don't have to go digging for it.

[Uniquemind]

Republican presidential front-runner Donald Trump said on Wednesday his plan for combating Islamic State militants involves targeting not just the group's fighters but also their families.

"When you get these terrorists, you have to take out their families," Trump said on Fox News. "They care about their lives, don't kid yourselves."

Trump said if he were president, he would try to avoid civilian deaths in going after the militant group, but he said the Obama administration was "fighting a very politically correct war."

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-trump-islamic-state-idUSKBN0TL2FA20151202#r4wGVUgfbOFXOMFK.97

I prefer the term 'fountain'. With Trump, you don't have to go digging for it.

Trump seems to be taking the concept of social genocide is acceptable under certain chaotic conditions and because at the end of the day an ideology dies if all those living who hold or sympathize with it die.


Conversely historically, and on the wrong moral side of things, North America almost successfully did this with native Americans.

So I guess trump is unethically correct.


In my mind I'm picturing the meme of Darth Sidious of Star Wars dropping the line of "wipe them out, all of them" and that's what I here from Trump when he speaks about this issue, sith lord that he is.

[phuckphace]

trolling hard for Jimbob's vote I see (Jimbob would rather vote for a cuck, so it's necessary)

http://i.imgur.com/MaieUWl.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/MclEtyn.gif

DP Merged
~P&S

[Aaesir]

shite

[Judean Zealot]

JK Rowlings' words of wisdom:

"Even Voldemort wasn't this bad"

[Jinglebottom]

Wasn't Trump disqualified because of his comments on banning Muslims from entry to the U.S, or was that just a load of bullshit? (hoping it's true tho lol)

[Judean Zealot]

Wasn't Trump disqualified because of his comments on banning Muslims from entry to the U.S, or was that just a load of bullshit? (hoping it's true tho lol)

Not true.

[Jinglebottom]

Not true.
I guess it was too good to be true. *sigh*

[Uniquemind]

JK Rowlings' words of wisdom:

"Even Voldemort wasn't this bad"

I saw JK Rowling's quote on that (was it originally a tweet?), but literally Trump hasn't taken anybody's life yet, so technically from a literal point of view he isn't.


Voldemort was smart and tactical, yet prideful, Trump...well I don't know there's still hope for the world, the jury's still out,

*spoiler*

but he's on that same trajectory Tom Riddle was.

[Judean Zealot]

I saw JK Rowling's quote on that (was it originally a tweet?), but literally Trump hasn't taken anybody's life yet, so technically from a literal point of view he isn't.


Voldemort was smart and tactical, yet prideful, Trump...well I don't know there's still hope for the world, the jury's still out,

*spoiler*

but he's on that same trajectory Tom Riddle was.

Yeah, it was a tweet.

[phuckphace]

Wasn't Trump disqualified because of his comments on banning Muslims from entry to the U.S, or was that just a load of bullshit? (hoping it's true tho lol)


http://i.imgur.com/6svVTIQ.jpg


white people are the biggest cucks on the planet, bar none

[Judean Zealot]

image (http://i.imgur.com/6svVTIQ.jpg)


white people are the biggest cucks on the planet, bar none

So what are the implications for your projected Reich?

[Kahn]

image (http://i.imgur.com/6svVTIQ.jpg)


white people are the biggest cucks on the planet, bar none

Buzzwords and all. Elegant.

xAIF1dUcKKk

[phuckphace]

So what are the implications for your projected Reich?

it means more skilled labor for mein Gulag, ofc

[Uniquemind]

image (http://i.imgur.com/6svVTIQ.jpg)


white people are the biggest cucks on the planet, bar none

Those polls were sponsored by BING though, so....

[phuckphace]

image (http://i.imgur.com/MaieUWl.jpg)

I want you guys to pay careful attention to the propaganda being used in this cartoon. even ignoring the over-the-top Godwin theme, at the left we see an innocent, bewildered Hispanic man being harassed by Trump's Gestapo - this is the narrative that the Left wants you to believe, that other races are targeted solely due to their skin color and foreign origin.

then there's reality:

http://i.imgur.com/MX6baFa.png

the journalists and pundits who shill for mass immigration can afford to live very far away from the immigrants and their crime. literally finger-wagging about "racism" from atop their ivory towers. always keep this in mind. does the character of your nation mean nothing to you?

Those polls were sponsored by BING though, so....

how did Bing get votes if nobody uses it? the eternal question

[lacey02]

Really disappointed in Trump, what he says and then how many people follow him. Our constitution grants freedom of religion... Trump will not.... scary guy.

[Kahn]

image (http://i.imgur.com/MX6baFa.png)

the journalists and pundits who shill for mass immigration and can afford to live very far away from the immigrants and their crime. literally finger-wagging about "racism" from atop their ivory towers. always keep this in mind. does the character of your nation mean nothing to you?

What a sensational cartoon.

The journalists and pundits who shill for mass deportation and the banning of specific groups from our nation can afford to live very far away from the war-ridden, crumbling hellholes many refugees and immigrants try to escape. Literally finger-wagging about "liberalism" and "the leftist agenda" from atop their ivory towers. Always keep this in mind. Does the character of your nation mean nothing to you?

On a serious note, I live in an area heavily populated by immigrants. Believe it or not, the community functions just fine. It's a small town. There are a lot of illegals. I knew several personally throughout high school. They were all born here. My closest friend throughout high school was among these illegals. His parents didn't hop a fence and outrun the border patrol with a hundred compatriots, they flew over here on a visa, and stayed, working. They're now full fledged citizens. His father went to school to become a plumber and operates his own business. When they went through Juarez to get to Mexico City to finalize their dual citizenship just two years ago, they were robbed at knife point at the border leaving the city. I can understand them wanting to leave that cesspool of a state.

http://i.imgur.com/MX6baFa.png

I can guarantee you the majority of those hispanic individuals on the FBI's most wanted list are cartel affiliated somehow, someway. Give me some time and I'll look into it. These faces are not representing the majority of people trying to escape the conflicts erupting south of the border, that we're partially responsible for.

Concerning the first name on the list. He was a part of a Mexican street gang renowned for its brutality. He was likely a part of this gang long before ever coming to the United States. He reportedly has ties to El Salvador and may have escaped there.

VictorAlfonso Argueta and Carlos Flores Garcia are wanted for their alleged involvement in a double murder in Baltimore County, Maryland. On January 8, 2006, the men, all members of the MS-13 street gang,

The second name, Saul Aguilar Jr., isn't involved reportedly affiliated with any gangs. He's fled the country, back to Mexico.

The third name, Miguel Antonio Padron. Another member of a Mexican street gang.
Padron may have fled to Tijuana, Mexico, but may be staying in Sinaloa, Mexico. Padron is reportedly affiliated with the gang Brown Pride Locos

The fourth name, Saul Chavez, is reportedly unaffiliated with any gangs. I can only assume he has lived a life full of criminal activity (spanning back to his days in Mexico) due to the trio of mugshots on his FBI page. He's fled the country, back to Mexico.

The fifth, Moises Galvan Gonzalez, is also reportedly unaffiliated with any gangs. He is considered an undocumented immigrant, according to the FBI website, and he and his brother murdered a man with a shotgun at point blank after what seems to be a premeditated confrontation on their part. He and his brother are reportedly somewhere around California and Mexico.

2/5 have known ties to Mexican gangs. They all have fled the country, back to whatever shithole they came from, or to a new one to destroy. Only one is an undocumented illegal.

These five men do not represent the majority of hispanic immigrants. And I think using an FBI homicide wanted list to address the entire immigration problem is a little much.

[Vlerchan]

I believe I've mentioned before that increasing immigration densities tends to lead to less crime in that area. This also means the likelihood is that crime also isn't as tied to discrimination and material deprivation as liberal make out.

---

Speaking of cute images: phuckphace.

https://scontent-ams3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpt1/v/t34.0-12/12336276_799103953569688_307822218_n.jpg?oh=8064d9a8b7bde7e2a36e87aad7ced2b5&oe=566E1D39

QED.

[Judean Zealot]

Vlerchan

Trump is no Fascist. :P

I might've liked him if he was.

[Microcosm]

Vlerchan

Trump is no Fascist. :P

I might've liked him if he was.

He kind of acts like one though, you have to admit.

[Judean Zealot]

He kind of acts like one though, you have to admit.

He's a populist. The Nazis were populists as well. Fascism, though, is a political ideology. Nowadays people just think fascist is synonymous with 'mean dude'.

[Kahn]

He's a populist. The Nazis were populists as well. Fascism, though, is a political ideology. Nowadays people just think fascist is synonymous with 'mean dude'.

How would you define facism?

[Judean Zealot]

How would you define facism?

That the State, as the manifestation of the nation, holds to itself supreme power. In a nutshell.

[Uniquemind]

He kind of acts like one though, you have to admit.

Trumps is anti-drug and alcohol he won't do them because he had a brother or cousin die due to addiction to them. Trump has been all talk and he has NOT ordered people to be executed.


Hitler was not, in fact he did amphetamines which probably caused him to make stupid military decisions during WWII, to our benefit as the Allies. Hitler killed or at least made a policy to kill his scapegoat demographic within his homeland.


They in factual fairness aren't the same as of the time of this post.

[Vlerchan]

It will be seen that, as used, the word ‘Fascism’ is almost entirely meaningless. In conversation, of course, it is used even more wildly than in print. I have heard it applied to farmers, shopkeepers, Social Credit, corporal punishment, fox-hunting, bull-fighting, the 1922 Committee, the 1941 Committee, Kipling, Gandhi, Chiang Kai-Shek, homosexuality, Priestley's broadcasts, Youth Hostels, astrology, women, dogs and I do not know what else.

George Orwell, 'What is Fascism' Tribune (London 1944) (http://orwell.ru/library/articles/As_I_Please/english/efasc)

---

I should add that it's implicit in Judean Zealot's definition that the nation itself is seen as greater than the sum of it's parts. Totalitarianism exists as an extension of ultranationalism.

It should also be noted that Fascism exists within a much broader spectrum of Far-Right thought than normally occupies popular imagination. That's a realm that's much more difficult to define - and I'm open to suggestions. The defining aspect of the Far-Right to me is their counter-Enlightenment orientation (anti-liberalism and anti-individualism) and anti-materialism. I'm sceptical of referring to xenophobia here since that doesn't seem to contain the thought of a number of historical figures and the modern Far-Right tend to frame issues in terms of ethnopluralism (multiculturalism-of-the-right). The counter-Enlightenment orientation and anti-materialism are for sure a theme that appears in Fascism though.

REJECTION OF INDIVIDUALISM AND THE IMPORTANCE OF THE STATE

Fascism is therefore opposed to all individualistic abstractions based on eighteenth century materialism; and it is opposed to all Jacobinistic utopias and innovations. It does not believe in the possibility of "happiness" on earth as conceived by the economistic literature of the XVIIIth century, and it therefore rejects the theological notion that at some future time the human family will secure a final settlement of all its difficulties. This notion runs counter to experience which teaches that life is in continual flux and in process of evolution. In politics Fascism aims at realism; in practice it desires to deal only with those problems which are the spontaneous product of historic conditions and which find or suggest their own solutions (9). Only by entering in to the process of reality and taking possession of the forces at work within it, can man act on man and on nature (10). [....]

[....] FASCIST STATE AS A SPIRITUAL FORCE

The Fascist State, as a higher and more powerful expression of personality, is a force, but a spiritual one. It sums up all the manifestations of the moral and intellectual life of man. Its functions cannot therefore be limited to those of enforcing order and keeping the peace, as the liberal doctrine had it. It is no mere mechanical device for defining the sphere within which the individual may duly exercise his supposed rights. The Fascist State is an inwardly accepted standard and rule of conduct, a discipline of the whole person; it permeates the will no less than the intellect. It stands for a principle which becomes the central motive of man as a member of civilized society, sinking deep down into his personality; it dwells in the heart of the man of action and of the thinker, of the artist and of the man of science: soul of the soul (22).

Fascism, in short, is not only a law-giver and a founder of institutions, but an educator and a promoter of spiritual life. It aims at refashioning not only the forms of life but their content - man, his character, and his faith. To achieve this propose it enforces discipline and uses authority, entering into the soul and ruling with undisputed sway. Therefore it has chosen as its emblem the Lictor’s rods, the symbol of unity, strength, and justice.

Benito Mussolini [Giovanni Gentile] (1932) Doctrine of Fascism (Enciclopedia Italiana). (http://www.worldfuturefund.org/wffmaster/Reading/Germany/mussolini.htm)

It's also evident in the thought of reactionaries and counter-revolutionaries like Joseph de Maistre (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_de_Maistre) and (neo-religious) ultranationalist republicans like Maurice Barrés (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maurice_Barr%C3%A8s) and Radical Traditionalists like Julius Evola (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julius_Evola).

Hitler is quite strange when considered within this conception of the Far-Right since he seems to frame his concerns with Jews in faux-biological terms and whilst he's an ultra-nationalist and totalitarian as per the definition offered he doesn't seem to capture the counter-Enlightenment orientation and anti-materialism that possesses other elements of the Far-Right. Given that he's perhaps the most notorious orator of the Far-Right I'm open to posters offering more concise definitions.

---

Edit: Just for the sake of my intellectual integrity the last post was a joke. I'm not sure if most people got that.

[Uniquemind]

When phrased like that, nope no objections.

[phuckphace]

Speaking of cute images: phuckphace.

image (https://scontent-ams3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpt1/v/t34.0-12/12336276_799103953569688_307822218_n.jpg?oh=8064d9a8b7bde7e2a36e87aad7ced2b5&oe=566E1D39)

QED.

10/10

He's a populist. The Nazis were populists as well. Fascism, though, is a political ideology. Nowadays people just think fascist is synonymous with 'mean dude'.

*pseudo-populists

if you're a populist the very first thing you do not do is drag your own country into a brutal total war that leaves it a burned-out ruin. Trump doesn't strike me as the type.

----

Oakheart - I'll be tackling your post soonish

[Donkey]

*pseudo-populists

if you're a populist the very first thing you do not do is drag your own country into a brutal total war that leaves it a burned-out ruin. Trump doesn't strike me as the type.

I don't know why I'm engaging on this forum. (We really should not be discussing Hitler in relation to Donald Trump.) But this is a serious misconception. The general historiographical consensus is that Hitler came to power as a military leader, so had to realise his expansionist mission for Germany to secure continued support. See Ian Kershaw's 'Working Towards the Fuhrer' for what happened after.

You are right that populism is a strange concept, since 'populist' leaders rarely meet their promises, though. I'm not sure that would make Hitler a pseudo-populist, though. I would say he carried his demagoguery to its logical conclusion. The contingencies of WWII could have gone better for him.

[phuckphace]

I don't know why I'm engaging on this forum. (We really should not be discussing Hitler in relation to Donald Trump.) But this is a serious misconception. The general historiographical consensus is that Hitler came to power as a military leader, so had to realise his expansionist mission for Germany to secure continued support. See Ian Kershaw's 'Working Towards the Fuhrer' for what happened after.

You are right that populism is a strange concept, since 'populist' leaders rarely meet their promises, though. I'm not sure that would make Hitler a pseudo-populist, though. I would say he carried his demagoguery to its logical conclusion. The contingencies of WWII could have gone better for him.

while it's quite true that Hitler was a demagogue who maxed the fuck out of his own logic, I view genuine populism, like mine and Trump's as a sort of "benevolent demagoguery" which is about as dissimilar to the Führer as one can get. by definition the greater good never includes total war and/or mass murder to fulfill some expansionist fantasy. Hitler's so-called "populism" was superficial all the way through, as he first demonstrated when he purged the pro-worker faction within his own party. it's also worth noting that unlike Trump and myself, he was criminally insane, on drugs and addled by neurosyphilis. I don't think Trump even drinks alcohol.

[JavierDolan]

I actually feel really sorry for him. He's a slave to his own ridiculousness, and the needs of the shitty side of Republicans. He is literally the next Hitler, all you need to do is look at his plan to have a badge to identify Muslims and look at what Hitler did with the Jews and the Star of David. It's literally the same thing. The sad thing is: he has a good chance of becoming president, and that scares me.

[Donkey]

while it's quite true that Hitler was a demagogue who maxed the fuck out of his own logic, I view genuine populism, like mine and Trump's as a sort of "benevolent demagoguery" which is about as dissimilar to the Führer as one can get. by definition the greater good never includes total war and/or mass murder to fulfill some expansionist fantasy. Hitler's so-called "populism" was superficial all the way through, as he first demonstrated when he purged the pro-worker faction within his own party. it's also worth noting that unlike Trump and myself, he was criminally insane, on drugs and addled by neurosyphilis. I don't think Trump even drinks alcohol.

I find it interesting how you conflate your value judgment interpretation of whether leaders realised 'the greater good' with benevolence and ingenuity in their populism. The problem is your value judgment here. I think Hitler's aim for a Tausendjähriges Reich was likely (or at least we have no reason to suspect not) wholly aimed for his conception of 'the greater good'. Even if you and I agree it was a bad idea.

What I am trying to say is that we misrepresent things when we define things on our own value-laden terms. Your dichotomy of genuine and not genuine populism doesn't really fit a proper framework. We have no tools to fully assess the intentions of historical actors.

I think you are referring to the Night of the Long Knives and Strasserism. The Strassers had rivalled Hitler's authority, yes, but the relationship between dictatorial leaders and securing support is more complex than whether or not they are simply genuine populists. I think drawing monocausal conclusions from historical phenomena such as that is a little too simplistic.

As for your suggestion he was criminally insane, I have seen no evidence to back that up and don't want to resort (as this forum often does) to reductio ad absurdium. Just to be clear, I think Hitler had a despicable, dangerous and disastrous ideology. But I don't think that is an excuse to misrepresent or undermine the complexity of the past nor how we conceptualise political power.

I suspect we are deviating away from the topic, though, and I have no intention of discussing Hitler and Trump together, having already fallen victim to being embroiled in a Godwin's Law moment.

[Judean Zealot]

That moment when Trump makes O'reilly sound moderate and level headed. Smh.
xKTlQX3UU10

Seriously, though. What a fool.

[phuckphace]

I find it interesting how you conflate your value judgment interpretation of whether leaders realised 'the greater good' with benevolence and ingenuity in their populism. The problem is your value judgment here. I think Hitler's aim for a Tausendjähriges Reich was likely (or at least we have no reason to suspect not) wholly aimed for his conception of 'the greater good'. Even if you and I agree it was a bad idea.

What I am trying to say is that we misrepresent things when we define things on our own value-laden terms. Your dichotomy of genuine and not genuine populism doesn't really fit a proper framework. We have no tools to fully assess the intentions of historical actors.

I think you are referring to the Night of the Long Knives and Strasserism. The Strassers had rivalled Hitler's authority, yes, but the relationship between dictatorial leaders and securing support is more complex than whether or not they are simply genuine populists. I think drawing monocausal conclusions from historical phenomena such as that is a little too simplistic.

As for your suggestion he was criminally insane, I have seen no evidence to back that up and don't want to resort (as this forum often does) to reductio ad absurdium. Just to be clear, I think Hitler had a despicable, dangerous and disastrous ideology. But I don't think that is an excuse to misrepresent or undermine the complexity of the past nor how we conceptualise political power.

I suspect we are deviating away from the topic, though, and I have no intention of discussing Hitler and Trump together, having already fallen victim to being embroiled in a Godwin's Law moment.

not sure why you're on about value judgments and dichotomies when it's objectively true that 'the greater good' is mutually exclusive to 'mass murdering your own citizens.' can we agree on that point at least, or is that another http://i.imgur.com/Ci6vdDb.png false dichotomy http://i.imgur.com/Ci6vdDb.png too?

"there's no evidence that Hitler was criminally insane" is an odd claim because it is self-evident from his actions and behavior. I've encountered this before and it's really obnoxious ("Hitler wasn't 'crazy', he just liked killing people because he was an evil Nationalist!") of course an insane person can delude himself into believing he's killing people for the greater good or that he's the Pope or the Queen of England or whatever. this doesn't mean that it's true, hence my use of the term pseudo-.

it's also my understanding that Hitler's historians have more or less reached the consensus that he descended into madness and extreme paranoia, such as when Hermann Goring sent Hitler a politely worded telegram suggesting that he assume control of the Reich after the latter's death. Hitler, being paranoid and insane, interpreted this as Goring's attempt to overthrow him, even though, you know, Goring was pretty much his biggest fan.

I'm aware we're Godwin now, but since Hitler is automatically invoked every time Trump opens his mouth (see the post above yours by the guy who didn't read the thread) I figured why not try and refute the Godwin while we're on the subject.

[phuckphace]

That moment when Trump makes O'reilly sound moderate and level headed. Smh.
xKTlQX3UU10

Seriously, though. What a fool.

I say we let them stay if they pay the Jizyah of 14.88% on all income

[Donkey]

not sure why you're on about value judgments and dichotomies when it's objectively true that 'the greater good' is mutually exclusive to 'mass murdering your own citizens.' can we agree on that point at least, or is that another image (http://i.imgur.com/Ci6vdDb.png) false dichotomy image (http://i.imgur.com/Ci6vdDb.png) too?

"there's no evidence that Hitler was criminally insane" is an odd claim because it is self-evident from his actions and behavior. I've encountered this before and it's really obnoxious ("Hitler wasn't 'crazy', he just liked killing people because he was an evil Nationalist!") of course an insane person can delude himself into believing he's killing people for the greater good or that he's the Pope or the Queen of England or whatever. this doesn't mean that it's true, hence my use of the term pseudo-.

it's also my understanding that Hitler's historians have more or less reached the consensus that he descended into madness and extreme paranoia, such as when Hermann Goring sent Hitler a politely worded telegram suggesting that he assume control of the Reich after the latter's death. Hitler, being paranoid and insane, interpreted this as Goring's attempt to overthrow him, even though, you know, Goring was pretty much his biggest fan.

I'm aware we're Godwin now, but since Hitler is automatically invoked every time Trump opens his mouth (see the post above yours by the guy who didn't read the thread) I figured why not try and refute the Godwin while we're on the subject.

To the first point, the answer is yes. There is no way to say that is objectively true. I'm not sure why it's a false dichotomy, but it is a value judgment. Again, you are simplifying things. Things are not objectively true because your aversion to them is so strong you don't have a capacity to understand why other people would want them.

Criminal insanity is a specific (defensive legal) term that relates to a specific issue. Hitler was not criminally insane. Also historians do not call historical actors crazy, but tend to assess motives, ideology, how those around them contributed to the structures of leadership (think Kershaw, again). Psychohistory (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychohistory) is generally not favoured - the reasons why include the inability to experiment on historical phenomena, nor more carefully assess people in controlled environments. Most would agree it would be bad history to just call Hitler crazy, and that the way he acted created structures of power very conducive to prolonging his charismatic leadership.

I still have no reason to believe Hitler was a 'pseudo-populist', xr my last post.

[Fiction]

I have very little knowledge of American politics, but the thought of Donald Trump running a big and powerful country like America terrifies me.

His comments are divisive and racist and are only going to serve to fuel ISIS and it's affiliates.

Very glad the UK made clear that we didn't want him in our country, with a petition signed by over 400,000 to ban him from our country. To which, of course, Trump responded to in an unprofessional, personal and childish manner.

http://politicalo.com/trump-responds-to-the-brits-we-already-banned-the-english-from-america-once-in-1776-well-gladly-do-it-again/

Oh and I can assure you Donald Trump, I am not Muslim or Hindu, I am that "true English man" you refer too, and I signed.

Besides, in our country being a "true Englishman" is not dependent on race or religion.

[Judean Zealot]

To the first point, the answer is yes. There is no way to say that is objectively true. I'm not sure why it's a false dichotomy, but it is a value judgment. Again, you are simplifying things. Things are not objectively true because your aversion to them is so strong you don't have a capacity to understand why other people would want them.

Criminal insanity is a specific (defensive legal) term that relates to a specific issue. Hitler was not criminally insane. Also historians do not call historical actors crazy, but tend to assess motives, ideology, how those around them contributed to the structures of leadership (think Kershaw, again). Psychohistory (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychohistory) is generally not favoured - the reasons why include the inability to experiment on historical phenomena, nor more carefully assess people in controlled environments. Most would agree it would be bad history to just call Hitler crazy, and that the way he acted created structures of power very conducive to prolonging his charismatic leadership.

I still have no reason to believe Hitler was a 'pseudo-populist', xr my last post.

Kershaw is, more or less, a minority opinion. To the best of my knowledge the psychiatric community is in general consensus that Hitler fell progressively into various neuroses, though to pinpoint precisely which ones is a task beyond our current capabilities. I can try to dig up official studies if you like.

As far as I'm concerned the literal conjoining of Trump and Hitler is not apt, but we should remember that just saying "Godwin's law!" isn't like saying "Expelliarmus!" to any comparison with Hitler. After all, should another Hitler arise for real you can still invoke Godwin, with the same amount of logical soundness.

phuckphace: Hitler obviously didn't intend to lose and wreck Germany in the 30s. He intended a glorious victory. Endlösung, as well, evolved very slowly, from disenfranchisement to deportation to extermination. He definitely began by aiming for his version of the "greater goid"

[Porpoise101]

I have very little knowledge of American politics, but the thought of Donald Trump running a big and powerful country like America terrifies me.

His comments are divisive and racist and are only going to serve to fuel ISIS and it's affiliates.

Very glad the UK made clear that we didn't want him in our country, with a petition signed by over 400,000 to ban him from our country. To which, of course, Trump responded to in an unprofessional, personal and childish manner.

http://politicalo.com/trump-responds-to-the-brits-we-already-banned-the-english-from-america-once-in-1776-well-gladly-do-it-again/

Oh and I can assure you Donald Trump, I am not Muslim or Hindu, I am that "true English man" you refer too, and I signed.

Besides, in our country being a "true Englishman" is not dependent on race or religion.
Lol Trump is so stupid. I can't believe this. While it is true that UK has degenerated, the one thing that stands out to me is his calling it out on Hindus in that article. Personally, Indians can be pretty anti Muslim anyway so Trump may have lost a potential supporting demographic with that.

To me this is just like a smaller version of what the Republican party did to Arabs. I swear they would be perfect Republicans if they weren't demonized. For example Arabs are religious, anti communist, and enterprising (they own half the shops around here). Some are even Christian and as a bonus, they are considered white by the US government. What a waste of a potential demographic, but honestly I'm glad as we don't need any more Republicans in my opinion.

[lacey02]

He is typical of really rich people. Thinks rules dont apply to him and that he can be dictator because of money. apparently does not believe in constitution or 1st amendment either. I would vote for someone else if I was old enough.

[phuckphace]

lol the UK entry bans are hilarious in their childlike foot-stamping pettiness - lolol take that m8 no tea and crumpets for u #gutted

[Donkey]

Kershaw is, more or less, a minority opinion. To the best of my knowledge the psychiatric community is in general consensus that Hitler fell progressively into various neuroses, though to pinpoint precisely which ones is a task beyond our current capabilities. I can try to dig up official studies if you like.

As far as I'm concerned the literal conjoining of Trump and Hitler is not apt, but we should remember that just saying "Godwin's law!" isn't like saying "Expelliarmus!" to any comparison with Hitler. After all, should another Hitler arise for real you can still invoke Godwin, with the same amount of logical soundness.

phuckphace: Hitler obviously didn't intend to lose and wreck Germany in the 30s. He intended a glorious victory. Endlösung, as well, evolved very slowly, from disenfranchisement to deportation to extermination. He definitely began by aiming for his version of the "greater goid"

The concept of a 'minority opinion' in the historical profession is useless. No one shares the same beliefs, nor is anyone expected to. If you are talking about convergence, it is still sort of irrelevant. Kershaw's conceptualisation of how political power worked in the Nazi state has moved the historiography in a direction which works largely within its parameters. It has therefore been very influential, and to get a sense of where historians now stand on the matter, it should be read. Of course you get structuralists, post-structuralists and what have you deviating. That simply goes without saying. The nature of discussions on this website, and especially those within this new-found RotW clique, tend to be very far away from any sort of respectable academic opinion or discourse. Not that they are not worth listening to, of course, but something is worth making clear (I thought it already would be) - as someone involved in academic history, I am influenced by its conventions, and tend to follow its tenets more closely. So I do not engage in the (historiography almost redundant) psychopathography of Hitler that, to my mind, does not in any way account for the actual processes or social / political dynamics of the Nazi state. (After briefly looking into it, though, there is clearly no consensus.) I also highly doubt that psychiatrists will ever be able to 'pinpoint' Hitler's alleged neuroses. Remember historical sources are finite and cannot be subject to controlled conditions, nor independent variables manipulated. That is not to say it will never happen, but you might ask how long psychiatry itself will last.

I was not saying 'Expelliarmus!' to comparisons between Trump / Hitler, but agree they are not apt comparisons and don't really see my time as being well spent engaging in what to my mind are trite, redundant and bogus analogies. Hitler and Trump are in incredibly different historical, political and cultural settings, and to my mind have incredibly disparate ideologies. I thought my time here was better spent clearing up some misconceptions with regards to what I think was the most disastrous event in the history of modern Europe, of which there are of course many in popular discourse.

[Judean Zealot]

Donkey

I've read Kershaw, and again, during that point in time wherein Hitler gained his power I tend to agree that at the very least, we cannot know whether Hitler did or didn't suffer from neuroses. Nonetheless, the many firsthand accounts of Hitler's activities in 1945 leave little room to doubt that at that point he was, quite frankly, mad. Rolling on the floor and biting linoleum is not the activities of a normal person, nor is the tremendous paranoia (as in the case of Göering) and delusion (commanding imaginary divisions against the Russians) indicative of a normal state of mind. The implications of that is that, at the very least, he slid into lunacy in 1945. Again, to reiterate, I pretty much agree with you, I'm just nitpicking.

[Cadanance00]

Well, back to the original subject:

I read that the sole reliable predictor of who gets nominated is 'net positives'. That is positive poll numbers minus negative poll numbers. That puts Trump near the bottom.

[Sherman]

I keep hearing that some of my family members say that they are going to vote for him and all I can think of is how can I be related to these fools.

[phuckphace]

http://www.gematrix.org/?word=president+donald+trump

president donald trump in English Gematria Equals: 1488

Hitler's back.

QED.

I keep hearing that some of my family members say that they are going to vote for him and all I can think of is how can I be related to these fools.

thankfully they have a precocious 14 year old in the family who's got it all figured out already

[Judean Zealot]

thankfully they have a precocious 14 year old in the family who's got it all figured out already

Max Pirkis (Octavian) from HBO's Rome just popped into my head. :P

[phuckphace]

I'm going to write a book about my life under Trump's Reich

The Millennial in The High Castle

[Porpoise101]

I'm going to write a book about my life under Trump's Reich

The Millennial in The High Castle
Lol no one will even check it out. They will be too busy reading buzz feed 'listicles' as they call them.

[phuckphace]

Lol no one will even check it out. They will be too busy reading buzz feed 'listicles' as they call them.

if they can get past the censors http://i.imgur.com/Ci6vdDb.png

[Sherman]

thankfully they have a precocious 14 year old in the family who's got it all figured out already
Unfortunately, they don't think I have a good judge of character yet.

[phuckphace]

Unfortunately, they don't think I have a good judge of character yet.

it's true, you don't. you're 14.

life experience is something that has a dramatic influence on a person's beliefs. as someone who came into this world only 168 months ago, you couldn't possibly have enough life experience and emotional maturity to make these kind of judgments the way adults can.

it's not like I've had too much more than you, since I'm only 19. that's why I listen to older adults who have.

[Judean Zealot]

it's true, you don't. you're 14.

life experience is something that has a dramatic influence on a person's beliefs. as someone who came into this world only 168 months ago, you couldn't possibly have enough life experience and emotional maturity to make these kind of judgments the way adults can.

it's not like I've had too much more than you, since I'm only 19. that's why I listen to older adults who have.

I'm afraid I don't share this sentiment with you. I've heard enough complete drivel from adults' mouth that I can't be any worse off than they are.

[phuckphace]

I'm afraid I don't share this sentiment with you. I've heard enough complete drivel from adults' mouth that I can't be any worse off than they are.

as have I, but at least with adults you can take a look and see what life results their decisions have brought them. example: my uncle is a guy who has cheated on multiple wives, walked out of really good jobs for stupid reasons, and drinks heavily. anything he touches blows up in his face. thus whenever he opens his mouth to dispense life advice, my brain just kinda filters it out.

[Vlerchan]

This seems like a real crude form of appeal to authority.

[Stronk Serb]

He is typical of really rich people. Thinks rules dont apply to him and that he can be dictator because of money. apparently does not believe in constitution or 1st amendment either. I would vote for someone else if I was old enough.

Explain how he infringes on freedom of speech, press and religion. I mean he gets demonized all the time, yet he gives zero fucks. Banning Muslims entry to the US is somewhat logical since the global Muslim population hates and wishes harm to the US the most, when viewed by percent and numbers.

I keep hearing that some of my family members say that they are going to vote for him and all I can think of is how can I be related to these fools.

And who would you vote for? Bernie who said ISIS was caused by global warming? Who believes further government expenses are good, even though he would cut on budget income. Hillary Clinton? Who said she was under sniper fire in Bosnia even though she was greeted as any foreign statesman? Who pretty much twists her "opinion" to sell out for votes? Who with the Obama administration literally ruined the Middle East? Honestly, Trump is the most logical choice here. He has a plan that does not involve ruining everyone.

[Judean Zealot]

He has a plan that does not involve ruining everyone.

Some of us beg to differ on that one. :P

Honestly, Le Jébé is the only one of the Republican candidates who actually uses his head to form policy, but of course he won't get anywhere because he's "boring". Smh.

This isn't a bloody reality show! Wherever did the notion come from that the president has to be some glamorous dude who loves the spotlight? If anything it is the opposite.

[phuckphace]

Honestly, Le Jébé is the only one of the Republican candidates who actually uses his head to form policy, but of course he won't get anywhere because he's "boring". Smh.

being "boring" is the least of Jeb's problems. I'd say his pandering to Mexicans and referring to them as "natural conservatives" shows that he is both a) out of touch and b) using something other than his head to arrive at that curious conclusion. I'd even go so far as to say he's contributed to the demise of his own party by shilling for immigration, since the majority of Mexican immigrants throw the lever for the Democrats, as they have done for years and will only continue to do so as their already prolific numbers increase.

dude's got a Mexico fetish or something, he even married one.

^why he won't get anywhere, QED.

[Judean Zealot]

I'd say his pandering to Mexicans and referring to them as "natural conservatives" shows that he is both a) out of touch and b) using something other than his head

He's right. They're Catholics and they're socially conservative. The only reason they're consistently voting democratic is the nativist rhetoric of the GOP.

[Stronk Serb]

Some of us beg to differ on that one. :P

Honestly, Le Jébé is the only one of the Republican candidates who actually uses his head to form policy, but of course he won't get anywhere because he's "boring". Smh.

This isn't a bloody reality show! Wherever did the notion come from that the president has to be some glamorous dude who loves the spotlight? If anything it is the opposite.

I meant of candidates which actually stand a chance at winning.

[phuckphace]

He's right. They're Catholics and they're socially conservative. The only reason they're consistently voting democratic is the nativist rhetoric of the GOP.

except that the GOP isn't nativist and hasn't been in a very long time. you might have a couple pols mumble something to that effect every once and a while, but it's meaningless on its face. why does the rest of the GOP despise Trump so much?

it's the in-group/out-group dynamic at play. the GOP is the Rich White Guy party. the Dems are the ones who give us free stuff. it's not just Mexicans mind you, the voting guide for the majority of non-whites is literally "look for the D" on the ballot.

I'm also highly, highly skeptical of the "Catholic conservative" claim. while most Mexicans are nominally Catholic, a) a big chunk of their Catholicism is syncretic with other indigenous religions and b) anyone who has experienced living around them knows that in practice their religion doesn't seem to have much positive influence on their behavior. I've literally been ranted at by Carlos for being an atheist about 10 seconds after he bragged about all the beetches he's fucked. and that's to say nothing of the Mexican male penchant for thuggish violence *fingers the rosary* *pops a cap in an ass*

I'm just about done with 'em man, sorry.