Opinions on Donald Trump

[Porpoise101]

He's right. They're Catholics and they're socially conservative. The only reason they're consistently voting democratic is the nativist rhetoric of the GOP.
I second this. Many immigrants would be Republicans if they weren't so nativist and somewhat... shall we say inappropriate at times. Arabs and Mexicans would be, but they are hated. And Indians would be because they are rich, but Americanized ones are turned off by the super religious nature of GOP right now. But I do admit that many Indians are Republicans because they are so anti Muslim, protecting of wealth, and also share viewpoints on social issues. I can't tell you enough how many times Indians complained to me about thuggish black people and "gay cancer".

[phuckphace]

I second this. Many immigrants would be Republicans if they weren't so nativist and somewhat... shall we say inappropriate at times. Arabs and Mexicans would be, but they are hated. And Indians would be because they are rich, but Americanized ones are turned off by the super religious nature of GOP right now.

Trump has some support from fully-integrated Mexicans, only problem is they're few and far between. the majority of them are here for La Reconquista.

I can't tell you enough how many times Indians complained to me about thuggish black people and "gay cancer".

fortunately for Indians, they aren't white so it isn't racist

[Judean Zealot]

except that the GOP isn't nativist and hasn't been in a very long time. you might have a couple pols mumble something to that effect every once and a while, but it's meaningless on its face. why does the rest of the GOP despise Trump so much?

Note that I said nativist rhetoric, not nativist policy. Also, the Jimbobs who make up the core Republican constituency are clearly quite nativist.

I can't argue on the anecdotal level, so we kind of have to leave it at that, but the majority of Mexicans I have met during my years in the states seemed pretty serious about their religion. Regardless, I don't think it so far off that a politician says that they are potential conservatives.

[Cadanance00]

Bike gangers and white supremacists would be given snappy brown uniforms and turned loose on the population to control undesirable elements, and even kill some degenerate newspaper editors and gays. Until such time as they think they ought to have some control whereupon they would be thrown a big party at a resort where the counterterrorism SWAT teams would suddenly come in and slaughter them all. (Night of the Long Knives)

Having protected groups unaccountable and above the law is a necessary tool for a despot, and we're well along the way in that regard. ("He probably had it coming")
-WC

[Jinglebottom]

Does Trump think Arabs = Muslims?

[Porpoise101]

Does Trump think Arabs = Muslims?
Many Americans do because of stupidity, but I don't know if Trump does. He's just proposed to bar Muslims. Personally I think Cruz is worse because he said ban from 'Muslim countries'. This may be more dangerous because it means even stable Singaporeans may be discounted because of its majority Muslim nature. Maybe he meant places like Saudi Arabia though.

[Judean Zealot]

Many Americans do because of stupidity, but I don't know if Trump does. He's just proposed to bar Muslims. Personally I think Cruz is worse because he said ban from 'Muslim countries'. This may be more dangerous because it means even stable Singaporeans may be discounted because of its majority Muslim nature. Maybe he meant places like Saudi Arabia though.

Cruz said from Muslim countries controlled by anti American regimes. He said that this was in order to allow Muslims from India (that was the example he used) or places like that to come freely.

[phuckphace]

Note that I said nativist rhetoric, not nativist policy. Also, the Jimbobs who make up the core Republican constituency are clearly quite nativist.

Jimbob votes Republican for taxes and abortion, mostly. it's only been 43 years, I'm sure the GOP will repeal Roe vs. Wade anytime now.

I can't argue on the anecdotal level, so we kind of have to leave it at that, but the majority of Mexicans I have met during my years in the states seemed pretty serious about their religion. Regardless, I don't think it so far off that a politician says that they are potential conservatives.

as far as I know the "nativist" plan is to deport all illegals and seal off the borders while the rest are integrated. that word is kind of a stupid neologism though, meant to condemn what all nations have only been doing for several millennia - preferential polices for their own citizens and rejection of too much outside influence. why aren't we allowed a wall and natives-first policies like Israel has?

Bike gangers and white supremacists would be given snappy brown uniforms and turned loose on the population to control undesirable elements, and even kill some degenerate newspaper editors and gays. Until such time as they think they ought to have some control whereupon they would be thrown a big party at a resort where the counterterrorism SWAT teams would suddenly come in and slaughter them all. (Night of the Long Knives)

Having protected groups unaccountable and above the law is a necessary tool for a despot, and we're well along the way in that regard. ("He probably had it coming") -WC

don't forget my favorite part, state suppression of Entartete Kunst und Musik.

Many Americans do because of stupidity, but I don't know if Trump does. He's just proposed to bar Muslims. Personally I think Cruz is worse because he said ban from 'Muslim countries'. This may be more dangerous because it means even stable Singaporeans may be discounted because of its majority Muslim nature. Maybe he meant places like Saudi Arabia though.

"""""dangerous"""""

why don't we just move the entirety of the global population to US territory and call it a day?

[Jinglebottom]

"anti-american regimes" Iran comes to mind. :D

[Judean Zealot]

as far as I know the "nativist" plan is to deport all illegals and seal off the borders while the rest are integrated. that word is kind of a stupid neologism though, meant to condemn what all nations have only been doing for several millennia - preferential polices for their own citizens and rejection of too much outside influence. why aren't we allowed a wall and natives-first policies like Israel has?

I have no problem with benign nativism. It's just stupid politics given the current demographic realities in America. Sticking with it is the reason why the GOP will probably never again win a general election.

[Cadanance00]

I have no problem with benign nativism. It's just stupid politics given the current demographic realities in America. Sticking with it is the reason why the GOP will probably never again win a general election.

Don't count on it. Never underestimate the ability of people to do stupid things.

[Porpoise101]

Cruz said from Muslim countries controlled by anti American regimes. He said that this was in order to allow Muslims from India (that was the example he used) or places like that to come freely.
Ah ok thank you for the clarification. It makes more sense since he is supposedly more benign than Trump.

[Judean Zealot]

Don't count on it. Never underestimate the ability of people to do stupid things.

They do stupid things that make them feel good. The GOP has already lost that battle. I predict that the GOP/independents will split into two parties: one centrist and one rightist.

[Cadanance00]

They do stupid things that make them feel good. The GOP has already lost that battle. I predict that the GOP/independents will split into two parties: one centrist and one rightist.

The same may be true of the Democrats. It's possible the Carter/Clinton centrists may merge with the Rockefeller/Nixon Repubs and make a centrist party leaving the socialists and the mad dog fascists on opposite ends of the spectrum.

[Judean Zealot]

The same may be true of the Democrats. It's possible the Carter/Clinton centrists may merge with the Rockefeller/Nixon Repubs and make a centrist party leaving the socialists and the mad dog fascists on opposite ends of the spectrum.

America doesn't really have socialists or mad dog fascists. The two parties are pretty much scrabbling over the same platform. Even the so called "radical" leftists, like Sanders, are pretty lite when compared to the far left elsewhere. And the same goes for the right: there is no voice in America anywhere close to Golden Dawn or the Front Nationale. When I speak of the American right I am just referring to their relative position on the playing field, but it is important to remember that pretty much everyone in American politics is more or less centre.

[Cadanance00]

[QUOTE=Judean Zealot;........... that pretty much everyone in American politics is more or less centre.[/QUOTE]

Hooweee! You ain't been to texas.

If texas was a country they would have executed the third most people of any country in the world, mostly black or hispanic.

[Judean Zealot]

Hooweee! You ain't been to texas.

If texas was a country they would have executed the third most people of any country in the world, mostly black or hispanic.

Executions have nothing to do with right or left. After all, Stalin, Mao, and Castro were all radical leftists.

[lliam]

IMO, when D. Trump will be the next American president, the US wil start into a berlusconish era ... of entertainment. At least for Europeans watching abroad news.

[Porpoise101]

America doesn't really have socialists or mad dog fascists. The two parties are pretty much scrabbling over the same platform. Even the so called "radical" leftists, like Sanders, are pretty lite when compared to the far left elsewhere. And the same goes for the right: there is no voice in America anywhere close to Golden Dawn or the Front Nationale. When I speak of the American right I am just referring to their relative position on the playing field, but it is important to remember that pretty much everyone in American politics is more or less centre.
I would call it more of apathy rather than an actual devotion to centrism. There is that political compass test on the web. It measures how left and right one is on government control and social issues. But it fails to measure passion or how much someone actually cares. So in the US, you will get a lot of centrists because the apathetic person would tend to fall in the middle since popular opinion usually averages to a centrist opinion formed by peer pressure.

[Vlerchan]

Explain how he infringes on freedom of speech, press and religion.
Insisting on a different standard for a person on the basis of their religion impedes their right to practice their religion. More newsline worthy is that it also infringes on the rights of Muslims under the 14th amendment which was set up to protect blacks and ex-slaves.

I mean he gets demonized all the time, yet he gives zero fucks.
The best indicator of good leadership if I've ever seen in.

Bernie who said ISIS was caused by global warming?
That was Mike O'Malley. His argument was that global warming was impart responsible since it's a leading cause of a drought in the Middle East that can be connected to the conflicts there.

It's a tenuous link at best but it's also not a reasn to deem someone unelectable.

Who believes further government expenses are good, even though he would cut on budget income.
Would you mind rephrasing this to be more exact? What exactly is the problem here? Thank you.

Who said she was under sniper fire in Bosnia even though she was greeted as any foreign statesman? Who pretty much twists her "opinion" to sell out for votes?
Clinton retracted the first statement seven years ago.

The second statement is undefined and thus I'm unable to respond.

Who with the Obama administration literally ruined the Middle East?
The Middle East was a shit-hole before Obama decided that U.S. resources were better placed elsewhere. His policies haven't helped but this is one of the grandest exaggerations about the Obama government I've come across.

Honestly, Le Jébé is the only one of the Republican candidates who actually uses his head to form policy, but of course he won't get anywhere because he's "boring".
What good policies has Jeb suggested? I haven't paid a huge amount of attention outside of economics and he seems plain inept there.

[...] Front Nationale [...]
If I'm honest I don't see these as being to the right of Trump. There attempts to gain popular support have resulted in a moderation.

[Cadanance00]

Okay, that's it. Trump's enamored of Putin, former KBG guy, has his critics murdered, invades neutral countries (well, we do too, but that's beside the point). Easy to see where his political orientation is.

[Judean Zealot]

What good policies has Jeb suggested? I haven't paid a huge amount of attention outside of economics and he seems plain inept there.

None in particular: a distinction shared with every other presidential candidate. What Jébé shows is an ability to speak calmly and rationally on issues, and not to just thump his chest like Zorg the caveman, which is something his competitors have yet to learn.


If I'm honest I don't see these as being to the right of Trump. There attempts to gain popular support have resulted in a moderation.

I am unfamiliar with the changes implemented by Marine Le Pen. I'm still thinking of old Jean.

[Vlerchan]

I am unfamiliar with the changes implemented by Marine Le Pen. I'm still thinking of old Jean.
Good old Jean was expelled last April if you haven't heard. (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/11815354/Frances-Front-National-party-expels-founder-Jean-Marie-Le-Pen.html)

Jean-Marie Le Pen was expelled from the French far-Right Front National on Thursday as his daughter Marine continued to distance the party from her father’s anti-Semitic reputation and move it [FN] into the political mainstream.

ibid

[Judean Zealot]

Good old Jean was expelled last April if you haven't heard. (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/11815354/Frances-Front-National-party-expels-founder-Jean-Marie-Le-Pen.html)

Jean-Marie Le Pen was expelled from the French far-Right Front National on Thursday as his daughter Marine continued to distance the party from her father’s anti-Semitic reputation and move it [FN] into the political mainstream.

ibid

I heard that. I just haven't been following their new direction. Although I read on BBC the other day that they got trounced in elections.

[Gwen]

There are so many jokes and things being said about him that I'm starting to have a hard time believing he is actually real and not just a fever dream.

[phuckphace]

I have no problem with benign nativism. It's just stupid politics given the current demographic realities in America. Sticking with it is the reason why the GOP will probably never again win a general election.

the "demographic realities" in this country are the end result of traitorous immigration/economic policies.

http://i.imgur.com/o8OjVNx.jpg

basically, we need to pander to minorities because it's the current year and stuff.

Okay, that's it. Trump's enamored of Putin, former KBG guy, has his critics murdered, invades neutral countries (well, we do too, but that's beside the point). Easy to see where his political orientation is.

I don't like Putin and in fact started a thread about him a month or so ago to make fun of Russophilia. that said, closer ties to Russia would be preferable to ties with Wahabbiland (Saudi Arabia.) does it not strike you as ass backwards that we currently have a more strained relationship with Russia than we do a fanatical Islamist oil-kingdom?

at least with Russians you don't need a bomb suit.

None in particular: a distinction shared with every other presidential candidate. What Jébé shows is an ability to speak calmly and rationally on issues, and not to just thump his chest like Zorg the caveman, which is something his competitors have yet to learn.

I assume "caveman" is referencing Barack and Michelle. they both resemble something you'd encounter in an African cave about 250,000 years before present

we're at a crossroads here when it comes to the future of our country. I'd say that bears more consideration than whether or not a candidate is "calm".

[Judean Zealot]

the "demographic realities" in this country are the end result of traitorous immigration/economic policies.

image (http://i.imgur.com/o8OjVNx.jpg)

basically, we need to pander to minorities because it's the current year and stuff.

Look, regardless of how this situation came about it is what it is. You have to deal with it, and the GOP isn't. They're pretty much sitting around and masturbating to their mass deportation fantasy, which we all know will never really happen. Fact is, that's idiotic politics.

I assume "caveman" is referencing Barack and Michelle. they both resemble something you'd encounter in an African cave about 250,000 years before present

we're at a crossroads here when it comes to the future of our country. I'd say that bears more consideration than whether or not a candidate is "calm".

No. Calmness and deliberation is currently one of the most important qualities you should be currently looking at. Being calm is the way to avoid going overboard with your policies. Obviously, the guy has to have a certain amount of knowledge: something Carson for example lacks, but calmness is a very important supplement to that knowledge.

[Vlerchan]

“He [Trump] is one of the best, if not the best, pro-gay Republican candidates to ever run for the presidency,” said Gregory T. Angelo, president of the Log Cabin Republicans, an advocacy group for LGBT Republicans. Trump would do no harm on same-sex marriage, Angelo said, and has a “stand-out position” on non-discrimination legislation.

http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2015/12/16/the-lgbt-pick-for-the-gop-nomination-donald-trump/

The conservative justice suggested during a hearing last week that some blacks and Hispanics are not strong enough candidates to be admitted purely on academic criteria and might be better off attending “slower-track” schools where they can prosper.

“I thought his remarks were very, very tough. I think they were very, very tough to the African American community actually. I don’t like what he said, no,” Trump said on CNN’s “State of the Union” program.

http://blogs.reuters.com/talesfromthetrail/2015/12/13/donald-trump-finds-justice-scalias-race-comments-beyond-the-pale/

Thoughts.

---

Although I read on BBC the other day that they got trounced in elections.
FN held half the regions after the first round of voting. In the second round FN captured even more votes. If you hadn't read, what happened was that there was a massive jump in turn-out for the second round - about 10%: higher in areas were FN were winning - and the Socialists also preceded to pull out of a number of regions to avoid splitting the vote.

Presidential elections will be exciting for sure.

[Judean Zealot]

Vlerchan

So now FN are martyrs? I suppose then that their 'defeat' is really quite a boon for them. Well, I'm glad they're leaving off the anti-semitism in any event. The French Muslims are bad enough.

[Porpoise101]

“He [Trump] is one of the best, if not the best, pro-gay Republican candidates to ever run for the presidency,” said Gregory T. Angelo, president of the Log Cabin Republicans, an advocacy group for LGBT Republicans. Trump would do no harm on same-sex marriage, Angelo said, and has a “stand-out position” on non-discrimination legislation.

http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2015/12/16/the-lgbt-pick-for-the-gop-nomination-donald-trump/

The conservative justice suggested during a hearing last week that some blacks and Hispanics are not strong enough candidates to be admitted purely on academic criteria and might be better off attending “slower-track” schools where they can prosper.

“I thought his remarks were very, very tough. I think they were very, very tough to the African American community actually. I don’t like what he said, no,” Trump said on CNN’s “State of the Union” program.

http://blogs.reuters.com/talesfromthetrail/2015/12/13/donald-trump-finds-justice-scalias-race-comments-beyond-the-pale/

Thoughts.

I think Donald only appreciates the current population of Americans, but dislikes foreigners. He doesn't consider Islam to be an all American thing though as it seems foreign. To be fair on him it is an unknown religion in many places.

[Vlerchan]

Has Trump a history at all of holding these views about Islam and Latin-american immigrants? Sometimes I wonder if it's just an electoral-strategy.

---

So now FN are martyrs? I suppose then that their 'defeat' is really quite a boon for them.
Martyr's: I'm not so sure if I'd go that strong. I imagine it's going to deepen disillusions amongst portions of the electorate that views the Socialists and Conservatives as two sides of the same coin. I imagine that'll be FN's message.

But the key-point is that at the moment a significant proportion of the French electorate claims it will never vote for FN. That basically means that whenever it approaches a run-off situation whatever centrist group is out of the race gets behind the other.

[phuckphace]

Look, regardless of how this situation came about it is what it is. You have to deal with it[...]

no...no we don't.

I'm not trying to be obtuse here, so hear me out. I've joked before that this is pretty much Holocaust denial, but to be serious: if the Holocaust taught us anything it's that quite a bit of change can be affected in a very short amount of time, all it requires is the political will.

[...]and the GOP isn't. They're pretty much sitting around and masturbating to their mass deportation fantasy, which we all know will never really happen.

no, there's not going to be a mass deportation of all brown people. no, Prez Trump isn't going to roll out fascism and turn America into his Reich. no there's not going to be a Drumpfjugend for the kiddos. but here's what he can do: he can start enforcing the immigration laws that are already on the books. we can deport most of the illegals. we can make it a criminal offense to hire an illegal, or, if you will, "undocumented workers." once illegals figure out that acquiring employment or welfare is extremely difficult or impossible, the remainder will self-deport and stop jumping the border.

even in spite of Trump's campaign taking our politics by storm, at best (provided he delivers on his promises) he will only delay the inevitable collapse by about eight years. I've said it time and again and I still believe it - our political system is doomed no matter what we do, and real systemic change will only come once the collapse occurs and there's a power vacuum to fill.

No. Calmness and deliberation is currently one of the most important qualities you should be currently looking at. Being calm is the way to avoid going overboard with your policies. Obviously, the guy has to have a certain amount of knowledge: something Carson for example lacks, but calmness is a very important supplement to that knowledge.

Trump's bombastic antics are a carefully calculated act. seen the polls? it's working.

he knows, for example, that Carson is creepy and sounds high as shit on something. he knows Hillary is a neurotic paranoid wreck. he knows that Jeb is looooooooow energy ( :D ). his strategy is to attack his opponents on things they can't change. do bumbling idiots end up with billions of $? I doubt it.

Thoughts.

culture war. short hair don't care.

[Porpoise101]

even in spite of Trump's campaign taking our politics by storm, at best (provided he delivers on his promises) he will only delay the inevitable collapse by about eight years. I've said it time and again and I still believe it - our political system is doomed no matter what we do, and real systemic change will only come once the collapse occurs and there's a power vacuum to fill.
What is this collapse you keep mentioning? To me, I would be OK with Trump if he wasn't so anti internationalist, but I guess that his main appeal.

[phuckphace]

What is this collapse you keep mentioning?

the logical conclusion to our social conditions and economic policies.

it's a deadly combo of "grow or die" on the economic end and "fuck your rules I do what I want" on the social end. we rejected sustaining tradition and religious values in favor of social liberalism and secularism, the end result of which is misery, alienation and eventual collapse. at the moment, we're sputtering along on the tiny amount of social capital left over from The Good Old Days but that's just about to run out.

see also: Roman Republic -> Empire -> crumbling ruins.

[Porpoise101]

see also: Roman Republic -> Empire -> crumbling ruins.
->Charlemagne, Vikings, Islamic Golden Age-> Renaissance!!!!!!

Moral of story: collapse breaks stagnation and allows development for a better future

[Jinglebottom]

Well, there's one good thing about Trump: his dislike of illegal immigrants. Sometimes, I wish someone would deport all the squatters living here, back to their lovely, fiery countries (pun intended, sorry not sorry).

[phuckphace]

Moral of story: collapse breaks stagnation and allows development for a better future

*moral of story: we don't learn from history and apparently never will. it's like our elites read about all the upheaval that destroyed the Republic and thought "let's give that a try."

their problem wasn't "stagnation", it was growth. they became hooked on it like addicts (just like us) and the Roman realm had to continually expand to keep up (just like us) and this led to the eventual abandonment of traditional institutions that held Roman society together (just like us.) this is unsustainable from both an economic standpoint and human psychology - collapse becomes inevitable beyond a certain tipping point. when the bread runs out, you can't live on circuses as the Roman elite eventually discovered.

our decline is accelerated because, unlike the ancient Romans, we also have consumer technology - atomization is now easier than it ever was in our history. I don't think the full effects of technology will be understood until after the fact - some point where we can look back and say "oops." unfortunately, my posts will be forever lost in the Electronic Dark Age (I should start inscribing them on fired clay tablets for posterity).

[Porpoise101]

*moral of story: we don't learn from history and apparently never will. it's like our elites read about all the upheaval that destroyed the Republic and thought "let's give that a try."

their problem wasn't "stagnation", it was growth. they became hooked on it like addicts (just like us) and the Roman realm had to continually expand to keep up (just like us) and this led to the eventual abandonment of traditional institutions that held Roman society together (just like us.) this is unsustainable from both an economic standpoint and human psychology - collapse becomes inevitable beyond a certain tipping point. when the bread runs out, you can't live on circuses as the Roman elite eventually discovered.

our decline is accelerated because, unlike the ancient Romans, we also have consumer technology - atomization is now easier than it ever was in our history.
Don't you think that people are understanding that though? If anything, our generation understands sustainability better than the elders. I believe that problem will be mitigated by our preparation and new technologies. Besides, I'm pretty sure that the "let's destroy our society because it's wrong to some people" attitude is just a phase. My parent's generation was all about living in the moment and rock and roll. Now they are the most mellow people. If anything my generation will turn to a more conservative, but a little more socially liberal, approach after seeing the disgrace that millennials are. I guess I'm saying that people are going to grow out of it.

[phuckphace]

protip: it makes no difference if the iPhones are powered by first-gen coal plants or magic windmills. trashing the environment happens and it's bad, but that's only one side of the 20-sided turd.

protip the second: millennials don't "get" conservatism. they think conservatism means low taxes.

protip the third: consumer technology removes us from natural human interaction and renders it vicarious. it's also made pornography ubiquitous, which I'd argue is at least as socially harmful as black tar heroin. and lastly, it's a very convenient and real-time method of mind control, not just by governments but corporations/mass media as well. millennials know more about Apple Inc. than they do their own government, which should tell you something about how likely this generation is to snap out of it.

#malthusianlyfe

[Porpoise101]

protip: it makes no difference if the iPhones are powered by first-gen coal plants or magic windmills. trashing the environment happens and it's bad, but that's only one side of the 20-sided turd.

protip the second: millennials don't "get" conservatism. they think conservatism means low taxes.

protip the third: consumer technology removes us from natural human interaction and renders it vicarious. it's also made pornography ubiquitous, which I'd argue is at least as socially harmful as black tar heroin. and lastly, it's a very convenient and real-time method of mind control, not just by governments but corporations/mass media as well. millennials know more about Apple Inc. than they do their own government, which should tell you something about how likely this generation is to snap out of it.

#malthusianlyfe
I'm not a millennial we are a little younger and we notice their filth. At least where I live, people emphasize social interaction. Also, sustainability isn't just about the environment. I meant it more in the sense that you make things more efficient and you get more resources with less cost.

[phuckphace]

to move this (somewhat) back on topic, recent convo with Moroccan friend irl:

Ahmed: so you're going to vote for Donald Trump?
phuck: yep!
Ahmed: oh maaan I'm scared, he's going to kick me out! [nervous chuckle] you think he will?
phuck: well he did say Muslims, not Arabs...
Ahmed: b-but I'm not Muslim or Arab...see?! [holds up BLT sandwich] I'm eating bacon!
phuck: if they ask just chow down on it and chase it with vodka or something!
Ahmed: [chuckles] but seriously how would they know if you're Muslim or not??
phuck: I guess they'll look you over and say "well YOU look like you're about to explode!"
Ahmed: [chokes on sandwich] oh my God man...
phuck: you mean ALLAH? I think you just screwed yourself out of 72 virgins with that sandwich, brah.
Ahmed: [continued guffawing] man you should visit my family in Morocco sometime, they'd love you.

who doesn't, I mean really ~_~

[Jinglebottom]

A non-muslim called Ahmed? That doesn't exist. :lol:

[phuckphace]

A non-muslim called Ahmed? That doesn't exist. :lol:

I went with the first Arabish/MiddleEastish pseudonym that came to mind :P

(I'm aware Morocco is in Africa by the way)

[Porpoise101]

to move this (somewhat) back on topic, recent convo with Moroccan friend irl:

Ahmed: so you're going to vote for Donald Trump?
phuck: yep!
Ahmed: oh maaan I'm scared, he's going to kick me out! [nervous chuckle] you think he will?
phuck: well he did say Muslims, not Arabs...
Ahmed: b-but I'm not Muslim or Arab...see?! [holds up BLT sandwich] I'm eating bacon!
phuck: if they ask just chow down on it and chase it with vodka or something!
Ahmed: [chuckles] but seriously how would they know if you're Muslim or not??
phuck: I guess they'll look you over and say "well YOU look like you're about to explode!"
Ahmed: [chokes on sandwich] oh my God man...
phuck: you mean ALLAH? I think you just screwed yourself out of 72 virgins with that sandwich, brah.
Ahmed: [continued guffawing] man you should visit my family in Morocco sometime, they'd love you.

who doesn't, I mean really ~_~
Yes there are some people who are more 'culturally'/Muslim than religiously. This Azerbaijani guy I know is the same.

[phuckphace]

you know, this "Ahmed" guy is pretty much the model immigrant. if all immigrants were like him, I don't think hardly *anybody* would have a serious problem with them.

same goes for Mexicans. upper-middle-class Mexicans seem like pretty normal people that I wouldn't mind living next to (met some when I visited Mexico a few years ago). unfortunately, globalism selects for the worst of the worst - trashy, tasteless, low-IQ, criminally inclined lumpenproles who couldn't/wouldn't assimilate if we held them at gunpoint. no thank you.

[sqishy]

This thread needs to stop acting like an eternal side commentary :/

Sure, Trump is entertaining, but it does not take long to loop over what we already know about him.

[phuckphace]

This thread needs to stop acting like an eternal side commentary :/

Sure, Trump is entertaining, but it does not take long to loop over what we already know about him.

it's already become a "Trump general thread" if you ask me. I expect it to really take off as the elections get closer.

[sqishy]

it's already become a "Trump general thread" if you ask me. I expect it to really take off as the elections get closer.

Perhaps.

(4 months later...)

[IloveAsa]

I think Trump is a bumbling idiot. He is by far the best candidate to fix the economy, but he doesn't know how to be diplomatic at all. Our ties with our allies would crumble. Canada, Germany, Japan, Russia, Britain, China, South Korea, Egypt, Israel, Mexico, Brazil we would be SURROUNDED by nations that hate us, and if South Korea loses our support (or denies it) South Korea's Military would be no match to North Korea's numbers with out outside help. Back to Trump though, having a good economy is worthless if the United States of North America is split between multiple nations from invasions. I'm not saying the world of the American Empire would fall if he's elected but I am saying that it will be even more difficult to make people see us in a better light than they see us now. I feel Trump is more entertainer and less politician.

[Drewboyy]

I think Trump is a bumbling idiot. He is by far the best candidate to fix the economy, but he doesn't know how to be diplomatic at all. Our ties with our allies would crumble. Canada, Germany, Japan, Russia, Britain, China, South Korea, Egypt, Israel, Mexico, Brazil we would be SURROUNDED by nations that hate us, and if South Korea loses our support (or denies it) South Korea's Military would be no match to North Korea's numbers with out outside help. Back to Trump though, having a good economy is worthless if the United States of North America is split between multiple nations from invasions. I'm not saying the world of the American Empire would fall if he's elected but I am saying that it will be even more difficult to make people see us in a better light than they see us now. I feel Trump is more entertainer and less politician.

Like you said, he is the perfect president to fix the US' horrible economy.
And he might be bad in other countries. Like I'd be afraid he will make fun of the prime minister of China to his face right after making a deal that was perfect for Americans and ruining it. You'd never know though, he might just be putting on this show of saying what's on his mind just to get elected.

However, it will never get to the point where EVERY country will hate us with a *bombing* passion unless we lie directly to someone's face (which a businessman would never do) in times of war and it turns out for the worse and a massive number of people die.

I'd suspect if he becomes president, then we will: stay the same with our allies, get a better economy and show some dominance with eastern trade, and depending on the Vice President and Congress our external affairs will either become slightly better or extremely worse.

[phuckphace]

Like you said, he is the perfect president to fix the US' horrible economy.
And he might be bad in other countries. Like I'd be afraid he will make fun of the prime minister of China to his face right after making a deal that was perfect for Americans and ruining it. You'd never know though, he might just be putting on this show of saying what's on his mind just to get elected.

However, it will never get to the point where EVERY country will hate us with a *bombing* passion unless we lie directly to someone's face (which a businessman would never do) in times of war and it turns out for the worse and a massive number of people die.

I'd suspect if he becomes president, then we will: stay the same with our allies, get a better economy and show some dominance with eastern trade, and depending on the Vice President and Congress our external affairs will either become slightly better or extremely worse.

nice meme bro. I'm sure Trump sealed all those business deals by farting in people's faces and flipping them off *extreme sarcasm*

China needs us far, far more than we need them. I also gotta laugh at the logic of "if we elect someone other countries don't like, the economy will collapse and we'll all die." George W. Bush was wildly unpopular in Europe from the moment he entered office to the moment he left, and the United States remained an economic superpower despite the economy bottoming out and all his incendiary neocon rhetoric of "if you're not with us you're with the terrorists."

Putin has expressed admiration of Trump as well

[Drewboyy]

nice meme bro. I'm sure Trump sealed all those business deals by farting in people's faces and flipping them off *extreme sarcasm*

China needs us far, far more than we need them. I also gotta laugh at the logic of "if we elect someone other countries don't like, the economy will collapse and we'll all die." George W. Bush was wildly unpopular in Europe from the moment he entered office to the moment he left, and the United States remained an economic superpower despite the economy bottoming out and all his incendiary neocon rhetoric of "if you're not with us you're with the terrorists."

Putin has expressed admiration of Trump as well

Exactly why I couldn't be president. I would drop the f-bomb extremely nonchalantly and everyone would take offense to it. Even though I hate cursing.

But I agree with most of what you said.

[DriveAlive]

Economically, we have gotten China by the balls. With the current policies in place, the yuan will be completely devalued in the next four years. What we really need is a president to deal with ISIS, Russia, and the debt. Not to mention supporting the 2nd Amendment. Trump will do these things.

[Vlerchan]

Like you said, he is the perfect president to fix the US' horrible economy.
What actually makes the US economy horrible? I understand it's had better periods but compare it to pretty much the rest of the developed world.

With the current policies in place, the yuan will be completely devalued in the next four years.
I'm pretty sure this statement is untrue (completely?). You sure you don't mean it's at a four year low?

I'm also not sure how this precedes from the first statement but whatever: let's clarify this one first.

[phuckphace]

I'm just hoping that whatever happens, China gets blown the fuck out. they've been selling us tainted, ultra-low-quality junk for decades with a shit-eating grin - it's time they tasted some white-hot Aryan retribution.

Trump will do these things.

does this mean you've officially joined the Trumpenkrieg? :D

[IloveAsa]

I was giving a worse case scenario, I know unless we really fucked up then we would retain our global power status. I just know Trump will say things that will piss off other world leaders. Trump is incredibly unpopular in Europe right now, minus President Putin.

[Vlerchan]

they've been selling us tainted, ultra-low-quality junk for decades with a shit-eating grin - it's time they tasted some white-hot Aryan retribution.
Yous then preceded to prefer and purchase that ultra-low-quality junk enabled into the country by national regulations.

I'm not inclined to place too much blame on China.

South Korea's Military would be no match to North Korea's numbers with out outside help.
Wait what?

South Korea has twice the population of North Korea. It's technological superiority can only be cited as approaching infinity.

[phuckphace]

Trump is incredibly unpopular in Europe right now, minus President Putin.

of course he is, most Europeans have been raised by their elites to believe nationalism (UGH) equals holocausts. heard of NATO? we can tell most of them to jump and they'll squeak "how high?"

this means they'll tag along while grumbling about it. fine with me.

You then preceded to prefer and purchase that ultra-low-quality junk enabled into the country by national regulations.

I'm not inclined to place too much blame on China.

if everything is junk produced in China, what else are we supposed to buy?

our elites have a habit of doing whatever they like without our input. I'm fairly certain the common man never called his Congressman to complain that his 20-year-old rotary phone was just too damn solid and he'd like something a lot flimsier.

[Vlerchan]

if everything is junk produced in China, what else are we supposed to buy?
But the it's coming from China because over a number of decades people in the U.S. demanded those sort of goods ahead of U.S.-assembled goods.

http://cdn.tradingeconomics.com/charts/china-exports.png?s=cnfrexpd&v=201512142004m&d1=19150101&d2=20151231

The fact that China has gone from exporting literally nothing to being the biggest in the world indicates the rate to which economies can be transformed into something almost unrecognisable in a short period of time.

I'm fairly certain the common man never called his Congressman to complain that his 20-year-old rotary phone was just too damn solid and he'd like something a lot flimsier.
You're also forgetting the extent to which the goods assembled in China are designed in the U.S. Like phones actually.

[phuckphace]

You're also forgetting the extent to which the goods assembled in China are designed in the U.S. Like phones actually.

"Designed by Apple in California" - yes.

my point is that China is an anthill country wherein life is cheap and if they do this on a regular basis (http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/foreigners/2015/09/why_drivers_in_china_intentionally_kill_the_pedestrians_they_hit_china_s.html) you can expect nonexistent quality control and lots and lots of dishonesty relating to same. culturally they are individualists in the worst possible way, and we need to stop giving them money yesterday.

I'm fully prepared to spend more money for quality US-made goods. I've just about had it with these disposable electronics that go tits-up a month out of warranty. the logical conclusion to this seems to be single-use cell phones sold in dozen-count cardboard cartons.

[IloveAsa]

of course he is, most Europeans have been raised by their elites to believe nationalism (UGH) equals holocausts. heard of NATO? we can tell most of them to jump and they'll squeak "how high?"

That simply untrue, many people in their nations around the world block out certain parts of history in school because it was a stain on their image and destroies nationalism. Germany's WWII Holocaust. American wars in Korea, Vietnam, and Iraq (you know the wars that we lost or haven't finished in over a decade)

[Vlerchan]

my point is that China is an anthill country wherein life is cheap and if they do this on a regular basis you can expect nonexistent quality control and lots and lots of dishonesty relating to same.
These people are conforming to the standards people in the U.S. set through either intended design or demand. If designers found that the Chinese were manufacturing goods that weren't up to designated standard then these good would be refused.

That - or the designers have changed their standards.

I'm fully prepared to spend more money for quality US-made goods. I've just about had it with these disposable electronics that go tits-up a month out of warranty.
If you stopped exports from China I imagine you'd get the same goods at a higher price.

[DriveAlive]

Let me explain. The yuan was just entered into the IMF SDR currency basket. This ties its value to the market demand for it. It also means that China cannot use so many regulatory measures to control the value of its currency. With America raising interest rates, the value of the dollar will rise, forcing down the already low value of the yuan. When you combine that with China's loose money policy and rampant counterfeiting epidemic, you can see that their currency is going to be completely devalued in several years. America will be able to buy their exports even cheaper than before because of this and our imports to them will be even more expensive. China will be hemorrhaging even more of their money.

[Vlerchan]

The yuan was just entered into the IMF SDR currency basket. This ties its value to the market demand for it. It also means that China cannot use so many regulatory measures to control the value of its currency.
When people also discuss Chinese membership of the IMF SDR currency basket the discussion centres around China not being able to devalue it's currency to the same extent as previous. It's the currency appreciating against the wishes of the Chinese central bank that's the cited issue.

Of course if restrictions placed on China because of the IMF SDR currency basket membership become to burdensome I expect it to just ignore those restriction

With America raising interest rates, the value of the dollar will rise, forcing down the already low value of the yuan.
The Chinese Yaun is pegged to the dollar. If the value of the dollar rises the Yaun is set to rise with it. That's the reason the Chinese Central Bank has begun talking again about removing the peg to the dollar and pegging instead to a basket of currencies.

This is because it wants to depreciate.


When you combine that with China's loose money policy [...]

China's monetary policy also isn't that loose. Not even if you take it in the crudest terms of just analysing it's interest and reserve rates. Those have been cut since the Summer but it's not comparable to the looseness of the FED or ECB or BoJ.

[...] rampant counterfeiting epidemic[.]

I'd appreciate links on the counterfeiting epidemic. It's not something I've read much about.

you can see that their currency is going to be completely devalued in several years.
It's going to be devalued sure. You're speaking like it will be a Zimbabwe-esque epidemic though.

America will be able to buy their exports even cheaper than before because of this and our imports to them will be even more expensive.
Sure.

China will be hemorrhaging even more of their money.
You'll need to expand here. In what way s this necessarily negative.

---

Edit: I believe I've caught the issue. Even if China is paying more for U.S. goods it will still be running a current account surplus. Though regardless the capital and current account always balance.

[Cadanance00]

Great article in today's New York Times by Krugman on the rise of the bullshit artists in the republican party.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/21/opinion/the-donald-and-the-decider.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col-left-region&region=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region&_r=0

[Judean Zealot]

Great article in today's New York Times by Krugman on the rise of the bullshit artists in the republican party.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/21/opinion/the-donald-and-the-decider.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col-left-region&region=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region&_r=0

Paul Krugman? I guess it takes one to know one.

[phuckphace]

That - or the designers have changed their standards.

it's a particular combination of shittiness on the manufacturing end and total apathy on the part of the corporations. quantity over quality, i.e. money.

Paul Krugman? I guess it takes one to know one.

"Assume we'd have a can opener if it weren't for those evil Republicans" -Krugman

[DriveAlive]

When people also discuss Chinese membership of the IMF SDR currency basket the discussion centres around China not being able to devalue it's currency to the same extent as previous. It's the currency appreciating against the wishes of the Chinese central bank that's the cited issue.

Of course if restrictions placed on China because of the IMF SDR currency basket membership become to burdensome I expect it to just ignore those restriction


The Chinese Yaun is pegged to the dollar. If the value of the dollar rises the Yaun is set to rise with it. That's the reason the Chinese Central Bank has begun talking again about removing the peg to the dollar and pegging instead to a basket of currencies.

This is because it wants to depreciate.




China's monetary policy also isn't that loose. Not even if you take it in the crudest terms of just analysing it's interest and reserve rates. Those have been cut since the Summer but it's not comparable to the looseness of the FED or ECB or BoJ.



I'd appreciate links on the counterfeiting epidemic. It's not something I've read much about.


It's going to be devalued sure. You're speaking like it will be a Zimbabwe-esque epidemic though.


Sure.


You'll need to expand here. In what way s this necessarily negative.

---

Edit: I believe I've caught the issue. Even if China is paying more for U.S. goods it will still be running a current account surplus. Though regardless the capital and current account always balance.

Cannot post the links to the articles I am talking about because they are from the Economist subscription site, but we have been studying this for some time in my global economics class. The yuan is not directly tied to the dollar because it has a floating rate of exchange, not a fixed rate. China has been selling its stock of dollars into the global market in order to prop up the value of its own currency. When the dollar increases in value, it has more trade power then the yuan in the global market. This causes downward pressure on the value of the yuan, driving its value down, not up. The amount of money that China has been printing as of late in order to combat their spiraling economic situation has led to a saturation of the yuan in the global market.

The counterfeiting is just making things worse for them because it is on such a large scale that it is actually disrupting trade. I saw this on the McLaughlin Group (a show I highly recommend watching) so I cannot give you a cite for this.

[Judean Zealot]

That simply untrue, many people in their nations around the world block out certain parts of history in school because it was a stain on their image and destroies nationalism. Germany's WWII Holocaust. American wars in Korea, Vietnam, and Iraq (you know the wars that we lost or haven't finished in over a decade)

No country in the world teaches more than Germany about the Holocaust. Probably not even Israel.

[Porpoise101]

Economically, we have gotten China by the balls. With the current policies in place, the yuan will be completely devalued in the next four years. What we really need is a president to deal with ISIS, Russia, and the debt. Not to mention supporting the 2nd Amendment. Trump will do these things.
Lol what are you saying? Even though Chinese growth has slowed down from 10% to 5% a year it is still growing steadily. Especially with a "counter TPP" they are forming with Pakistan, Malaysia, and Singapore. Many more countries will fall into their sphere again as it was for thousands of years. Even FDR saw this as an inevitability. That's why China, of all the developing nations, was allowed in the UN security council in his "new world order". Even if the yuan is devalued it should recover eventually as the autocratic methods of the government can efficiently deal with problems unless the problem is corruption.

[Vlerchan]

The yuan is not directly tied to the dollar because it has a floating rate of exchange, not a fixed rate.
It's been a de facto peg. I mean 'been' in the past tense though. It's now pegged - 'referenced' - to a basket of currencies as per the last few weeks.

It also has a managed rate.

China sets a midpoint for the value of the yuan against the U.S. dollar. In daily trading, the yuan is allowed to move 2% above or below that midpoint, which is called the daily fixing.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/china-moves-to-devalue-the-yuan-1439258401

It is planning on moving towards a free float. The governor of its central bank has made mention of that. But I imagine it won't be until the Yaun reaches market value.

Experts widely agree that Beijing isn't allowing the yuan to be free floating for now; rather it's embracing a managed floating regime, one characterized by more flexibility and calculated intervention.

"Going forward, the closing spot rate will probably represent the official view, while the bias of the fixing relative to the closing rate may reflect the bias of the market," Citi explained in a note on Thursday.

The PBoC's tolerance level may be between 6.3-6.4 per dollar, judging by intervention levels, the bank added.

http://www.cnbc.com/2015/08/13/chinas-new-managed-float-regime.html

China has been selling its stock of dollars into the global market in order to prop up the value of its own currency.
It doesn't want the Yaun to depreciate all at once. That would be bad for confidence.

When the dollar increases in value, it has more trade power then the yuan in the global market. This causes downward pressure on the value of the yuan, driving its value down, not up. The amount of money that China has been printing as of late in order to combat their spiraling economic situation has led to a saturation of the yuan in the global market.
I understand how currency markets work. What I was claiming was that with the peg - reference - to the dollar if the dollar was to appreciate then the Yaun would appreciate with it. Being wrong about the Yaun still being referenced to the dollar - though it was last time I checked: in my defence - means I have that point incorrect though.

I also don't disagree that the Yaun is depreciating. I again don't understand why it's devaluation is being played up as so significant here though. I would appreciate if that was explained.

I saw this on the McLaughlin Group (a show I highly recommend watching) so I cannot give you a cite for this.#
Doesn't show in Ireland. But thank you, if I can get a look at it I will.

---

Especially with a "counter TPP" they are forming with Pakistan, Malaysia, and Singapore.
Links?

You also need to post more in the Daily Chronicle. You seem to know more about the big things happening in the Far East than half the board combined.

[..] autocratic methods of the government can efficiently deal with problems [..]
Not confidence.

[IloveAsa]

No country in the world teaches more than Germany about the Holocaust. Probably not even Israel.

I know that but what I meant is that after school it's not really brought up. People are tired of foreigners bringing it up in conversation.

[Judean Zealot]

I know that but what I meant is that after school it's not really brought up. People are tired of foreigners bringing it up in conversation.

Source? Anything?

[Uniquemind]

"Designed by Apple in California" - yes.

my point is that China is an anthill country wherein life is cheap and if they do this on a regular basis (http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/foreigners/2015/09/why_drivers_in_china_intentionally_kill_the_pedestrians_they_hit_china_s.html) you can expect nonexistent quality control and lots and lots of dishonesty relating to same. culturally they are individualists in the worst possible way, and we need to stop giving them money yesterday.

I'm fully prepared to spend more money for quality US-made goods. I've just about had it with these disposable electronics that go tits-up a month out of warranty. the logical conclusion to this seems to be single-use cell phones sold in dozen-count cardboard cartons.

Which are valuable tools for fugitives according to all those crime TV shows and movies. Therefore, not worthless in many different contextual situations if you're on the run. Spend more if you want something of higher quality if you take care of it it will last at least 4 years.

Also to manufacture stuff or import goods into the USA, that's why in theory there's supposed to be quality regulation controls on what comes in, but it's legally specific.

The recent toy the Hoverboard, it's lithium-ion battery isn't regulated because the item itself isn't considered a "vehicle", so it gets around the red tape.

Hence why the toy is on the news recently for possible battery fires this holiday season.

Both the iphone and hoverboard battery are from China, one is tested the other is not.

[Porpoise101]

Links?

Here is one overview of a 2010 agreement securing free trade in the countries in Indochina: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASEAN%E2%80%93China_Free_Trade_Area

Here is one that is pan Asian. To me it stands out as India, a rival, is included. Perhaps it is to make this trade agreement as important as the TPP by adding a large constituent population: http://qz.com/519790/thought-the-tpp-was-a-big-deal-chinas-rival-free-trade-pact-covers-half-the-worlds-population/

My father who goes to China often said there was talk of a "revived silk road". He said it was a goal to increase ties with the central Asian and Arab nations for economic interests. I think it's quite exaggerated but also quite possible. Take the recent shipping deals with Pakistan and the military intervention in Afghanistan as my proof. It's just a hunch, but these nations have lots of resources to exploit like minerals, oil, and land.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-32400091

[phuckphace]

what's funny about topics relating to "development" is that they always leave out the cultural aspect. Western nations are successful because they are full of westerners. you can ape our economic arrangements all day, as a lot of "developing nations" are doing, but without Western values and traditions as the foundation, it's not going to work.

there's a reason it was the Bible that was quoted on the surface of the Moon and not the Qur'an. #ThreadOfTheFates

[phuckphace]

what's funny about topics relating to "development" is that they always leave out the cultural aspect. Western nations are successful because they are full of westerners. you can ape our economic arrangements all day, as a lot of "developing nations" are doing, but without Western values and traditions as the foundation, it's not going to work.

there's a reason it was the Bible that was quoted on the surface of the Moon and not the Qur'an. #ThreadOfTheFates

to add to my above point:

http://i.imgur.com/hiJd1uA.jpg

QED.

[Porpoise101]

to add to my above point:

image (http://i.imgur.com/hiJd1uA.jpg)

QED.
Not surprised as these people weren't told how to use them. It's not like the US wasn't at this stage though 😒 http://endtheneglect.org/2012/01/how-the-outhouse-helped-save-the-south-and-what-it-can-do-for-the-worlds-bottom-billion/

[phuckphace]

Not surprised as these people weren't told how to use them. It's not like the US wasn't at this stage though �� http://endtheneglect.org/2012/01/how-the-outhouse-helped-save-the-south-and-what-it-can-do-for-the-worlds-bottom-billion/

haha what a coinkydink - I just stumbled across this article (http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/bodyhorrors/2011/04/25/blood-money-hookworm-economics-in-the-postbellum-south/) the other day

I'm linking this to e-hicks whenever they start bellowing about THUH SOUF WILL RISE UHGAIN and damn yankees trying to censor the Confederate flag. were it not for abolitionists and getting their asses handed to them during the Civil War, these folks would've been more than happy to import and breed slaves by the millions until we literally became the Congo, all for a few extra handfuls of cotton-shekels. absolutely disgusting.

now just imagine an America where slavery never happened. our violent crime rate today would be at least 50% lower, for starters.

[Porpoise101]

haha what a coinkydink - I just stumbled across this article (http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/bodyhorrors/2011/04/25/blood-money-hookworm-economics-in-the-postbellum-south/) the other day

I'm linking this to e-hicks whenever they start bellowing about THUH SOUF WILL RISE UHGAIN and damn yankees trying to censor the Confederate flag. were it not for abolitionists and getting their asses handed to them during the Civil War, these folks would've been more than happy to import and breed slaves by the millions until we literally became the Congo, all for a few extra handfuls of cotton-shekels. absolutely disgusting.

now just imagine an America where slavery never happened. our violent crime rate today would be at least 50% lower, for starters.
If there was one good thing the slaves brought, it was American music. They made soul which developed into blues, jazz, rock, and now rap. If there is a consolation prize, it's that the musical legacy of the country developed beyond military marches and Sousa.

[phuckphace]

If there was one good thing the slaves brought, it was American music. They made soul which developed into blues, jazz, rock, and now rap. If there is a consolation prize, it's that the musical legacy of the country developed beyond military marches and Sousa.

nah, slavery had absolutely no net benefits. it was motivated by greed, wrought unimaginable suffering, and we're still reaping the dividends today in the form of a huge and highly dysfunctional lumpenproletariat. this proletariat is the reason America can't have all those nice things that homogeneous Europe does, like universal healthcare and clean, functional public transportation in every city.

jazz is decidedly inferior to the harmony and complexity of European classical music, and rap is a particularly ugly and tasteless form of Entartete Musik. even if this weren't objectively true (deal with it :P ) I'd say any arguable positives we gained from slave culture were negated several times over by its many drawbacks.

incidentally, many of the former slave states (especially Texas) are now the most prolific importers of Mexican proles, the spiritual successors of African slaves. Southerners really, really like their cheap labor even if it means burning the country down in the process.

[Vlerchan]

Edit:

[On the Asean-China FTA & RCEP]
I'm sceptical these will have the same impact as TPP. The importance of TPP was not that it just removed tariffs but that it standardised a number of regulations that frequently impact trade. It doesn't seem to state that either of these achieve that though it could just be left out of the article. The fact that TPP exists first also means that China's negotiations with it's members are constrained because those members are bound to a certain set of regulations as per TPP.

[On The New Silk Road]
I'm aware of this one and have mentioned it a few times before. It goes well beyond just the Middle East though and China intend it to extend to Eastern and Central Europe.

The worrisome aspect though is that preparations for this project is just cover for an attempt to extend the reach of the PLO. Pakistan letting China use it's naval base for example.

---

The below isn't all relevant but that just makes it easier to quote whenever someone decides to discuss development.

what's funny about topics relating to "development" is that they always leave out the cultural aspect.
What's funnier is that issues of culture has been at the forefront of long-run development research the last decade. It's also been big in major feature of short-run development. In particular though since the opening of the 2000s (Bisin & Verdier 2001 (http://www.econ.nyu.edu/user/bisina/bisinverdier_jet.pdf) formalised the approach). However I'm sceptical it explains a substantial part of long-run development.

Comin, Easterly and Gong (2010) (http://www.dri.as.nyu.edu/docs/IO/11783/Wealthofnations.pdf) find that there is a remarkable persistence amongst the earliest-adopters in 1000 BC holding their technological advantage. Olsson and Hibbs Jr. (2005) (http://www.douglas-hibbs.com/HibbsArticles/EER%202005.pdf) attempted to use Diamand (1997) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guns,_Germs,_and_Steel)'s cited bio-geographic variables to explain original advantages. This is demonstrated. Ang (2014) (http://www3.ntu.edu.sg/hss2/egc/wp/2014/2014-12.pdf) puts this altogether in one paper. European ascension is no doubt helped along with genetic factors such as lactose tolerance (Cooke 2013 (http://www.aae.wisc.edu/mwiedc/papers/2013/cook_charles.pdf)) and disease resistance (Cooke 2014 (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/96311558/cook%20hla%2011-5-14.pdf)) and the impact of intermediate genetic diversity as contrasted with much higher genetic-diversity amongst africans and much lower genetic-diversity amongst native americans (Ashraf and Galor 2013 (https://www2.warwick.ac.uk/fac/soc/economics/research/centres/cage/events/conferences/longrungrowth/galor.pdf)).

This holds to about 1500 - 1800 when what's been termed a reversal of fortune occurs (Acemoglu, Johnson and Robinson 2002 (http://economics.mit.edu/files/4127)). The regions that were once rich become the focus of European exploitation and the regions that were once poor become the the focus of European investment. Acemoglu, Johnson and Robinson (2000) (http://economics.mit.edu/files/4123) argue this occurs in particular through European setting up extractive institutions in richer regions and institutions fit for securing the rights of settlers in poorer regions. There's criticism of these papers on the grounds of identification issues but the claims are replicated in examinations of 'natural experiments' such as Dell (2010) (http://scholar.harvard.edu/files/dell/files/ecta8121_0.pdf) and Iyer (2009) (http://www.people.hbs.edu/liyer/iyer_colonial_restat.pdf) amongst others. On the topic Dincecco, Fenkse and Onorato (2014) (http://www.csae.ox.ac.uk/workingpapers/pdfs/csae-wps-2014-35.pdf) document that whilst conflict tended to promote stronger states amongst the Old World and later economic success the fact never came through for sub-saharan africa.

The competing hypothesis relates then to the plantation of human capital and culture. However for the most part economists have been better able to link economic outcomes to human capital differentials than culture per se. The prime likelihood is that both compliment each other. Glaeser et al. (2005) (http://www.nber.org/papers/w10568.pdf) demonstrate that regions being suitable for European habitation correlates better with higher levels of human capital. Becker and Wossman (2007) (http://www.ksg.harvard.edu/pepg/PDF/Papers/PEPG07-04_Becker_Woessmann.pdf) argued that the Webber's Protestant Work Ethic was rather a misanalysis of higher rates of human capital amongst protestants. Whilst human capital has been played-down in favour of capital densities and such the work of the likes of Manuelli and Seshadri (2010) (http://www.econ.wisc.edu/~aseshadr/working_pdf/humancapital.pdf) have enhanced the argument of proponents of human capital as significant in development.

Putterman and Weil (2010) (https://www.google.ie/search?q=Post-1500+Population+Flows+and+the+Long+Run+Determinants+of+Economic+Growth+and+Inequ ity&oq=Post-1500+Population+Flows+and+the+Long+Run+Determinants+of+Economic+Growth+and+Inequ ity&aqs=chrome..69i57.392j0j4&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8) demonstrate that regions with populations who've longer ancestral ties to agriculture and organised states tend to be richer. The prime demonstration of the paper is that it's then the population groups within regions that matter. This also explains a significant amount of income-inequality within countries. It's held to be quite robust in Easterly and Levine (2011) (https://williameasterly.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/driwp90.pdf). The likelihood here is that culture is derived in some sense from this familiarity.

On grounds of pure-culture there's for sure some influence on economic outcomes (Brugger Lallive and Zweimüller 2009 (http://ftp.iza.org/dp4283.pdf)). Specific effects were demonstrated in Fernández and Fogli (2004) (http://www.eief.it/files/2011/06/lecture-1.pdf) as another example. However the three most important cultural traits cited tend to be Individualism (Gorodnichenko and Roland 2010) (http://eml.berkeley.edu/~ygorodni/gorrol_culture.pdf) and Looser kin-affiliation (Grief and Tabellini 2010 (http://web.stanford.edu/~avner/Greif_Papers/2010%20Cultural%20and%20Institutional%20Bifurcation:%20China%20and%20Europe%20Co mpared.%20(With%20G.%20Tabellini.)%20AER.pdf)) alongside higher levels of trust of strangers. However Gorodnichenko and Roland (2010) (http://eml.berkeley.edu/~ygorodni/GorodnichenkoRoland_AEAPP.pdf) argue that all cultural factors are derivations of the individualism-collectivism cleavage. This is held robust for 35 commonly cited cultural factors.

That the economies in the Far-East got developed off the back of a non-individualist tradition means that culture isn't that much of a roadblock if GR (2011) is true.

---

The reading I have of this is that biogeographic advantage made Europeans capable of dominating subsaharan africa amongst other regions. This in turn placed the dominated regions at an absolute disadvantage relative to the non-dominated regions. The Europeans uneven spread of their human capital then creates a number of neoEuropean states that benefit from their same advantages. Individualism inspires a certain amount of this process. There's other microfactors at play. Like gender egalitarianism tends to explain a significant amount of productivity growth. But I'm offering a broad sweep here.

[Soundtrack: Frankenstein - Frankenstein's Pain - Entartete Musik Max] (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2x7rgdQncFs)

[Derpy]

I don't get how anyone with two working brain cells to rub together could support or believe Trump.

- Explain how he's going to win the Hispanic vote like he said, after he called Mexicans drug-dealers, criminals and rapists and became the most hated American politician in the Hispanic world. (Immigrants including illegal ones are actually less likely to commit crime.) Even El Chapo Guzman sent this guy death threats, LOL.

- Explain how he's going to build a $25 billion wall that will require $750 million a year to maintain (before you even consider the cost of Border Patrol agents to man it) -- and raise the astronomical amount from paltry visa fees for Mexicans. Did I mention the Republicans have been talking about this wall for 30 years? And Mexicans have heard of such a thing as smuggling tunnels.
I wonder how many Repubs realize that illegal immigration has been declining since 2007... or that 84 per cent of illegals are stopped at the border -- wait, without a wall? Or that 2013 was a record year for deportations. But I can excuse them, I know they're gonna get that memo pretty late. I mean, even evolution still hasn't sunk in.

- Explain how he's going to raise a "deportation force" to hunt down, sniff out and expel 11.4 million illegal immigrants. That's 6 times greater than the largest US deportation campaign in history -- in the 1920s and 30s, when Hispanics were not a sixth of the citizen population and the atmosphere was totally different. Can you imagine how much money this would cost? How would it happen in political terms, when many of these people have family members who are US citizens? How would he deport all illegals, yet keep families together as he claims? And I won't even talk about the effect on the economy. You can look up some studies. Losing 5.1 per cent of the US workforce, the 5.1 per cent that works for peanuts? I hope you won't mind a Norweigan-style cost of living. Even Trump admitted that he couldn't guarantee he had no illegals working for him. Of course it's well-known that he does.

- Explain how he's going to strike down birthright citizenship. The only way is to amend the Constitution. The Constitution has been amended 33 times out of over 5,000 attempts. The last amendment was in 1992, over something much less controversial. Look up the amendment formula... You really think this guy can build the huge national support he'd need for that?

- Explain how he's going to bar 1.6 billion Muslims, almost a quarter of the earth's population, from entering the US. He said even Muslim citizens would be blocked. Explain how you can stop citizens from entering their own country. Then imagine the economic and diplomatic consequences. All for what? Muslims committed 6% of terror attacks in the US from 1980 to 2005, according to the FBI. San Bernardino was one out of hundreds of mass shootings in 2015. You are more likely to be killed by a toddler or by household furniture than a Muslim terrorist. You're going to take the country back to the 1880s with the Chinese Exclusion Act, and accept the huge political and business ramifications of this decision, for a miniscule gain in public safety? Not to mention, what would this bill do about homegrown terrorists who are radicalized online? This is like talking about sending all the blacks "back to Africa" and it'll be about as successful.

- One of my favorites. Explain how he's going to bring back jobs from China and India and Mexico. I forgot how tough the Republicans usually are on huge US corporations. How is he going to force them to increase their labor costs ten times over? What's he going to do, ask them real nice?
C'mon, even 9 of Trump's own companies have brought in at least 1,100 immigrants since 2000. 850 of them were on H-2B visas, and 80 per cent of H-2B workers are from Mexico. The real number is probably much bigger. Just the Mar-a-Lago resort in Florida brought in 70 immigrants in the month of July 2015.

Now you know why Trump always avoids specifics and details in his speeches and interviews. When asked he just says something mind-numbingly stupid, like "Management!" A sound bite that his electorate can understand and applaud.

But Trump himself is not stupid. He knows he's lying through his teeth. In The Art of the Deal he talks about playing on people's fantasies as a very effective way of self-promotion.

How do you think about these questions? If like 81 per cent of Trump supporters you have no college education, you just don't worry about it. 'cuz we're gonna make America great again.

But I love Trump. He used to make me mad, and now I'm honestly one of his biggest fans. He's doing the Republicans more damage than a hundred Democrats in the Senate. Maybe when this side-show circus is over we won't have to worry about the Repubs for a long time.

I used to believe the conspiracy theory that he's running to help Hillary, but then I read about him and found out he's been like this forever.

Btw, only 2 per cent of his supporters are under 30. Young Trumpers are rarer than blood donors. Which explains why our main Trump man here is a Nazi. Bahahahaha.

[Judean Zealot]

Lol. phuckphace: The God-Emperor needs you here to defend der Staat.

[Vlerchan]

I mentioned back on p. 5 that Trump's tax plan looked good but I was unsure whether it was revenue-neutral.

It's not.

But what about the whole plan? Will it be, as Trump wrote in a Wall Street Journal column, "revenue neutral"?

We didn’t hear back from the Trump campaign. But based on analyses conducted by two tax groups, Trump’s plan would lead to a revenue loss of $10 trillion to 12 trillion over 10 years.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/nov/05/donald-trump/donald-trumps-false-claim-his-tax-plan-wouldnt-inc/

/:

[phuckphace]

Derpy - I already addressed many of those points earlier in this thread, which you obviously didn't bother to read through before dropping that "wall" of snark as your inaugural post.

since I'm a nice guy, I'll retrieve the relevant post myself:

no, there's not going to be a mass deportation of all brown people. no, Prez Trump isn't going to roll out fascism and turn America into his Reich. no there's not going to be a Drumpfjugend for the kiddos. but here's what he can do: he can start enforcing the immigration laws that are already on the books. we can deport most of the illegals. we can make it a criminal offense to hire an illegal, or, if you will, "undocumented workers." once illegals figure out that acquiring employment or welfare is extremely difficult or impossible, the remainder will self-deport and stop jumping the border.

even in spite of Trump's campaign taking our politics by storm, at best (provided he delivers on his promises) he will only delay the inevitable collapse by about eight years. I've said it time and again and I still believe it - our political system is doomed no matter what we do, and real systemic change will only come once the collapse occurs and there's a power vacuum to fill.

I despise the Republican party with a passion and if all Trump does is permanently split and destroy the GOP, whether intentionally or not, it'll be the best thing to happen in our politics in a long time. relevant quote I came across on the Internet a couple years ago: "if you vote Democrat you're an asshole but if you vote GOP you should be locked up as a danger to yourself and others." if it hadn't been for Trump coming along I was fully prepared to cast a vote for Hillary in order to hasten this along.

it's also funny the number of people who've made fools of themselves by skimming a couple of my posts and prematurely ejaculating some one-liner about Nazis. I'm not a Nazi but thanks for the compliment.

edit: Vlerchan: if you were running for Prez what sort of tax plan would you want? personally I'd prefer a more progressive/confiscatory scheme for the top but that's just me.

[Vlerchan]

edit: @Vlerchan: if you were running for Prez what sort of tax plan would you want? personally I'd prefer a more progressive/confiscatory scheme for the top but that's just me.
I have no idea of the exact figures in the U.S. so take this as a rough guide.

Some form of progressive flat tax. That means the average rate is progressive which is what defines progressive taxation. I would imagine the marginal rate would be in the regions of the mid 20s and beginning at the income level of the third quintile.
Progressive consumption tax. I intend for this to be tiered and the highest tier being up to 60%.
Eliminate corporation taxation.
Eliminate payroll taxation.
Reduced capital gains taxation on non-financial instruments.
Much higher estate taxation.
That's from the top of my head.

[phuckphace]

I have no idea of the exact figures in the U.S. so take this as a rough guide.

Some form of progressive flat tax. That means the average rate is progressive which is what defines progressive taxation. I would imagine the marginal rate would be in the regions of the mid 20s and beginning at the income level of the third quintile.
Progressive consumption tax. I intend for this to be tiered and the highest tier being up to 60%.
Eliminate corporation taxation.
Eliminate payroll taxation.
Reduced capital gains taxation on non-financial instruments.
Much higher estate taxation.

That's from the top of my head.

sounds good to me. re: the underlined: combine this with a single-payer healthcare system and I'd imagine a wage hike would be more feasible (employer health insurance is expensive and generally shit-tier)

one of the points of Trump's tax scheme in particular was a one-time tax break for corporations to bring their cash back into the country that they're currently hoarding overseas. this isn't the first time I've heard this suggested - what's your take on that?

[Vlerchan]

combine this with a single-payer healthcare system and I'd imagine a wage hike would be more feasible (employer health insurance is expensive and generally shit-tier)
It almost certainly would be. Gruber (1997) (http://www.uh.edu/~adkugler/Gruber_1997.pdf) reports that the decrease in payroll taxation was almost entirely passed on to workers in the form of higher wages. I have mentioned before that corporation taxation acts for the most part to suppress wage growth - but can't find the post. I've also heard - though I'd need to double-check - that employee healthcare plans have acted to stop productivity gains translating into welfare gains.

Though I'm not sure to what extent that last point is true. From what I've read the main issue is the technology being capital-biased.

Given that medical costs in states with publicly funded healthcare tend to be half of the U.S. rate I can imagine we'd be seeing significant per capita savings regardless.

one of the points of Trump's tax scheme in particular was a one-time tax break for corporations to bring their cash back into the country that they're currently hoarding overseas. this isn't the first time I've heard this suggested - what's your take on that?
I've never read up on it so I'm not sure what sort of impact it might have. I've also never heard of it being attempted elsewhere either.

So I'll need to look into that before I can voice any sort of opinion.

[phuckphace]

as a personal anecdote, I noticed that companies really started doubling down on things like hour-cuts and far fewer new hires after Obamacare went into effect. my job used to have a big mob of employees milling around at all hours of the day to the point where the boss would let some of them go home early if they so chose - now it's just me and a handful of others having all the work dumped on us and being expected to stay over until it's finished. this company has never been big on raises but I had to LOL at my last raise of +25 cents (bear in mind that I got a positive review and the boss had no issues with my work).

I guess the pseudocons who screamed about Obamacare were accidentally right.

[Derpy]

phuckphace
Deporting even most of the illegals is financially and politically undoable and would be a disaster for the economy, as I outlined above. It's probably a hopeless task in terms of logistics too. In any case Trump would have to work his keister off to out-deport Obama, who has kicked out more illegals per year than any other president since taking office. Just take a look at this chart from the Dept of Homeland Security: http://blogs.reuters.com/data-dive/files/2015/02/Deportations022515.jpg It speaks volumes.

It's already a criminal offense to hire an illegal (8 U.S. Code § 1324a - Unlawful employment of aliens). That hasn't worked out very well, because money > law.

There isn't going to be a collapse. Certainly not in eight years. Folks have been saying that for such a long time about so many crises that it's starting to sound like some evangelical predicting the end of the world. 'murica has been through much worse than this.

Yeah, I really don't know where people get the idea that you're a Nazi. I mean the Blut und Boden, Hitler promotion, national socialist in your signature... You obv want us to save the whales.

[phuckphace]

phuckphace
Deporting even most of the illegals is financially and politically undoable and would be a disaster for the economy, as I outlined above. It's probably a hopeless task in terms of logistics too. In any case Trump would have to work his keister off to out-deport Obama, who has kicked out more illegals per year than any other president since taking office. Just take a look at this chart from the Dept of Homeland Security: http://blogs.reuters.com/data-dive/files/2015/02/Deportations022515.jpg It speaks volumes.

It's already a criminal offense to hire an illegal (8 U.S. Code § 1324a - Unlawful employment of aliens). That hasn't worked out very well, because money > law.

There isn't going to be a collapse. Certainly not in eight years. Folks have been saying that for such a long time about so many crises that it's starting to sound like some evangelical predicting the end of the world. 'murica has been through much worse than this.

Yeah, I really don't know where people get the idea that you're a Nazi. I mean the Blut und Boden, Hitler promotion, national socialist in your signature... You obv want us to save the whales.

:lol3: go back to Reddit

[Vlerchan]

It's already a criminal offense to hire an illegal (8 U.S. Code § 1324a - Unlawful employment of aliens). That hasn't worked out very well, because money > law.
The fact that at the moment employers believe that the potential gain is greater than the potential loss does not mean the situation is irreparable.
Increase the fine. In the U.K. the fine is up to twenty-thousand pounds for unknowingly hiring illegal immigrants and it's unlimited when it comes to knowingly hiring illegal immigrants. I feel it should be done at some absolute proportion of revenue though.
Offer monetary rewards for reporting cases that end up going to prosecution. In the realm of five hundred to one thousand would be incentive enough I believe. Ensure this cash reward is well publicised. [I also don't believe there's one at the moment - though people can still report illegal immigrants]
I imagine the latter point would make more of an impact.

I agree though that at this late stage the macroeconomic ramifications are too large to consider excluding the population of undocumented workers. It's smarter to just integrate the current number and then dangle the significant loss of remittances over the heads of the Mexicans to have them crack down harder. For reference it's through that avenue that Trump intends to have his wall constructed through threatening this.

I'm also in agreement it wouldn't add enough to justify the costs.

Losing 5.1 per cent of the US workforce, the 5.1 per cent that works for peanuts? I hope you won't mind a Norweigan-style cost of living.
It's interesting to see that you're so eager to support exploiting a group of people if it improves your standard of living.

I'd also appreciate if this claim was supported. It doesn't seem too likely to me but then I've never looked into it.

[IloveAsa]

Source? Anything?

I've been to Germany multiple times and I know many Berman nationals

[phuckphace]

Norwegians pay higher prices for their shit but they also make waaaay more money so I'd say it's a wash

I have to lol at that logic though - cheap shelf prices are of paramount importance and so we should flood our country with ultrapoors and ignore all externalities, thus spake the free market.

personally I wonder how much cheaper our cost of living would be if our tax dollars didn't go to support such a fuckhuge inmate population that primarily consists of Sanchezes and Trayvons

[lliam]

In my opinion, Donald Trump would be the wisest of the wise, if he locks up himself in his tower, counting all of his money for the rest of his life.

[phuckphace]

The Mensch in the High Tower

[Sir Suomi]

I bet you Phuck has a shrine of Trump somewhere in his attic...

[phuckphace]

attic's full, I'm hiding Jews so Trump doesn't holocaust them

[Microcosm]

lol @ ^

You know, at first I thought Trump's views on immigrants was complete garbage that should be put in a trash compactor and then burned.

But, I kind of see his point now. We need to stop letting others trample all over our country. We need to further assert our control over our own land.

America needs to find its national pride again, and Trump can help do that.

However, many of his ideas are garbage like the building of the Texas-Mexico wall xD

But I am willing to admit that was most likely just a political stunt to show that he's willing to take action. You could even say the wall is "metaphorical."

[Porpoise101]

I bet you Phuck has a shrine of Trump somewhere in his attic...
That's God-Emperor Trump to you. Watch your language.

[phuckphace]

Stronk Serb

REMOVE TACO

http://i.imgur.com/K4Kmyg3.png

translator's note: "calling all Serbbros living in Murika to vote for the Republican candidate Donald Trump in the next election" :D

[Stronk Serb]

Stronk Serb

REMOVE TACO

image (http://i.imgur.com/K4Kmyg3.png)

translator's note: "calling all Serbbros living in Murika to vote for the Republican candidate Donald Trump in the next election" :D

You have first hand confirmation that translation is correct. Also he mentioned how Trump apologized to us for the nineties and called the Clintons genocidal. Serbian dijaspora stronk.

[phuckphace]

in usual fashion we sided with the wrong volks. thankfully Drumpf is here to fix that

[Porpoise101]

What is your opinion on his new political ad? Personally one of the few things I liked about him was that I've never seen an ad for him this cycle (media was all he needed). Even the fact that it was fraudulent doesn't phase me considering a lot of ads have low standards. To me, the interesting thing is the fact that he even ran an ad.

[phuckphace]

What is your opinion on his new political ad? Personally one of the few things I liked about him was that I've never seen an ad for him this cycle (media was all he needed). Even the fact that it was fraudulent doesn't phase me considering a lot of ads have low standards. To me, the interesting thing is the fact that he even ran an ad.

just watched it, opinion is "meh" (and if THE MEDIA is to be believed, the so-called Mexicans swarming over the border are actually border-jumpers in Morocco). if I were Trump I'd have focused on the very large Mexican cartel presence in the US which has already crossed the border and will be steamed as all hell when/if he seals it off.

I don't see the purpose of campaign ads anyway - I don't think they actually sway a significant number of voters to matter. generally the people who are going to vote for X or not vote for X will do so or not do so regardless, especially in Murika where voting boils down to "look for the D or the R on the ballot"

[Porpoise101]

especially in Murika where voting boils down to "look for the D or the R on the ballot"
You just reminded me about straight tickets... Ugh I think that just made me puke in my mouth a little.

[phuckphace]

straight ticket voting is really funny mainly because the functional difference between the Left and Right has been nonexistent for the last thirty current years or so (I'm beating a dead horse here but my point stands)

Trump is a stark exception to this but it remains to be seen how many accidental votes he'll get from straight ticket voters who vote for R because it isn't D. my parents keep protesting that he's "NOT EVEN CONSERVATIVE" as if that isn't literally the point - Conservative Inc. went bankrupt a while ago, folks

[phuckphace]

lmao so...

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/trump-ad-fact-checked-mexican-border-footage-campaign-says-no-n489981

"um excuse me shitlord that's Morocco, WOW JUST WOW"

"no shit, it's not the Mexican border but that's what our country is going to look like. This was 1,000 percent on purpose" (actual quote) :lol3:

even I got Trumped for a sec :eek:

[Porpoise101]

lmao so...

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/trump-ad-fact-checked-mexican-border-footage-campaign-says-no-n489981

"um excuse me shitlord that's Morocco, WOW JUST WOW"

"no shit, it's not the Mexican border but that's what our country is going to look like. This was 1,000 percent on purpose" (actual quote) [emoji38]3:

even I got Trumped for a sec :eek:
Wow I thought his lawyer said it was a mistake and they were going to take that back.

Britain may ban Trump, I found this and honestly it's pretty funny because I heard about this when the petition was live. Trump pretty much said that all the signatories were Muslims or Indians and weren't Britons. Now the Parliament is debating it I guess. Poor Britain, they have seen better days haven't they...
http://qz.com/586813/the-uk-parliament-will-debate-banning-donald-trump/

[phuckphace]

http://i.imgur.com/oKfmPyY.jpg

:lol3:

[Uniquemind]

Wow I thought his lawyer said it was a mistake and they were going to take that back.

Britain may ban Trump, I found this and honestly it's pretty funny because I heard about this when the petition was live. Trump pretty much said that all the signatories were Muslims or Indians and weren't Britons. Now the Parliament is debating it I guess. Poor Britain, they have seen better days haven't they...
http://qz.com/586813/the-uk-parliament-will-debate-banning-donald-trump/

Trump also threatened to pull his financial assets out of Scotland if the UK did do that too.

[Dalton_Holt]

He's a fascist, but I can't say he's the worst candidate. Personally I think Clinton is worse, but really they're all the same.

[Vlerchan]

Personally I think Clinton is worse, but really they're all the same.
I realise Clinton is a faceless shill but I'd find her being worse than Trump pretty difficult to justify.

[Dalton_Holt]

I realise Clinton is a faceless shill but I'd find her being worse than Trump pretty difficult to justify.

Sees security as being more important than personal freedom (seems to be pretty obsessed with this), supports mass surveillance, supports the war on terror, is for gun control, defends the electoral college, is for executive action, and of course she's fiscally liberal(wants stronger government.

Not to mention she used to be secretary of state, and their job is basically to make decisions on "foreign affairs". Have we ever had a time in recent years where "foreign affairs" didn't mean war and regime change? And during the time she was secretary (2009-2013) was one of the worst times for "foreign affairs".

[phuckphace]

and she's a woman


oooooooooooooh

[Judean Zealot]

Sees security as being more important than personal freedom (seems to be pretty obsessed with this), supports mass surveillance, supports the war on terror, is for gun control, defends the electoral college, is for executive action, and of course she's fiscally liberal(wants stronger government

Yeah, I agree. Hillary's pretty awesome. :D

If only.

[Uniquemind]

Donald trump has gone on record to state and cite recent mass violence against women (two rapes confirmed) in Germany around the New Years Eve celebrations, and given that drunk North African men, and what appears to be drunk male refugees being many of the perpetrators.

Trump is politically incorrect, but damn if a lot of his comments appear to be Blanche cart justified to say.

He's wrong overall, but right on the specific consequences and that's all that matters for some people given it'll affect them.

[Porpoise101]

Trump is politically correct
Please elaborate

[Living For Love]

The only thing I can say is that he has done more for his country than I will ever do for mine. That's enough for me to respect him, whether I agree with his views or not.

[Judean Zealot]

The only thing I can say is that he has done more for his country than I will ever do for mine. That's enough for me to respect him, whether I agree with his views or not.

What's he actually done for America?

[Porpoise101]

The only thing I can say is that he has done more for his country than I will ever do for mine. That's enough for me to respect him, whether I agree with his views or not.
I think all he has done is pay taxes and employ people. Like any other businessman. Maybe he shook up the political landscape, but that may or may not be good.

[Living For Love]

What's he actually done for America?
Well, he is one of the founders of The Trump Organisation, which is a huge conglomerate that employs thousands of people and offers a lot of different services worldwide. He has written many books, as far as I know, some of which became best-sellers, and participated in a reality show that gave a chance to one person to work with him. He as also received many awards and honours, and now owns a fortune of 5 billion dollars because of his investments and determination.

[Judean Zealot]

Well, he is one of the founders of The Trump Organisation, which is a huge conglomerate that employs thousands of people and offers a lot of different services worldwide. He has written many books, as far as I know, some of which became best-sellers, and participated in a reality show that gave a chance to one person to work with him. He as also received many awards and honours, and now owns a fortune of 5 billion dollars because of his investments and determination.

That's what he did for Donald Trump, not America.

[Vlerchan]

[..] Sees security as being more important than personal freedom[.]
Republican presidential front-runner Donald Trump said he’d be OK with restoring the post-9/11 Patriot Act and that he errs “on the side of security” in the ongoing debate over the NSA’s phone-snooping program.

“Well, I tend to err on the side of security, I must tell you,” Mr. Trump said this week on radio host Hugh Hewitt’s show. “And I’ve been there for longer than you would think, but when you have people that are beheading [you] if you’re a Christian and, frankly, for lots of other reasons, when you have the world looking at us and would like to destroy us as quickly as possible, I err on the side of security.”

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/dec/2/donald-trump-nsa-phone-snooping-program-i-err-side/

[..] supports mass surveillance [..]
The quote above concerned the NSA.

[..] supports the war on terror [..]
Washington (CNN)Donald Trump said Wednesday that he would kill the families of terrorists in order to win the fight against ISIS.

The billionaire businessman was asked by the hosts of Fox News' "Fox and Friends" how to fight ISIS but also minimize civilian causalities when terrorists often use human shields.

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/12/02/politics/donald-trump-terrorists-families/

[..] is for gun control [..]
Guess that's 1 point.

[..] defends the electoral college [..]
I'm actually not sure what Clinton supports on this issue. I could only find this from 2000.

"We are a very different country than we were 200 years ago," Clinton said. "I believe strongly that in a democracy, we should respect the will of the people and to me, that means it's time to do away with the Electoral College and move to the popular election of our president."

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/hillary-calls-for-end-to-electoral-college/

[..] is for executive action [..]
Everyone is.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_federal_executive_orders

[..] and of course she's fiscally liberal(wants stronger government).
This is a bizarre reason to oppose fiscal liberalism.

But sure: 2.

Not to mention she used to be secretary of state, and their job is basically to make decisions on "foreign affairs". Have we ever had a time in recent years where "foreign affairs" didn't mean war and regime change? And during the time she was secretary (2009-2013) was one of the worst times for "foreign affairs".
You'll find 2009 - 2013 is just a continuation of U.S. middle eastern policy that's been in play since before both of us were born.

But regardless - the fact that she has previous political experience shouldn't be a strike against here: Even if that experience was in a position you don't like.

[Living For Love]

That's what he did for Donald Trump, not America.
Not really. He has created jobs and stimulated the American economy with his investments and with his Organisation.

[Porpoise101]

Not really. He has created jobs and stimulated the American economy with his investments and with his Organisation.
But that wasn't his intent. The intent was to profit. Just because you make money and provide jobs doesn't make you good; it's about whether he did it to profit himself or others.

[Living For Love]

But that wasn't his intent. The intent was to profit. Just because you make money and provide jobs doesn't make you good; it's about whether he did it to profit himself or others.
Well, after building the huge empire that now is The Trump Organisation, he naturally took personal profits from it. Whether it was his intention or not, I don't think it is relevant. The truth is that it helps people, it helps the economy and it helps his country. And he did it because he was educated that way by his father who was also a real estate developer and who encouraged him to follow his steps.

[Dalton_Holt]

Republican presidential front-runner Donald Trump said he’d be OK with restoring the post-9/11 Patriot Act and that he errs “on the side of security” in the ongoing debate over the NSA’s phone-snooping program.

“Well, I tend to err on the side of security, I must tell you,” Mr. Trump said this week on radio host Hugh Hewitt’s show. “And I’ve been there for longer than you would think, but when you have people that are beheading [you] if you’re a Christian and, frankly, for lots of other reasons, when you have the world looking at us and would like to destroy us as quickly as possible, I err on the side of security.”

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/dec/2/donald-trump-nsa-phone-snooping-program-i-err-side/


The quote above concerned the NSA.


Washington (CNN)Donald Trump said Wednesday that he would kill the families of terrorists in order to win the fight against ISIS.

The billionaire businessman was asked by the hosts of Fox News' "Fox and Friends" how to fight ISIS but also minimize civilian causalities when terrorists often use human shields.

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/12/02/politics/donald-trump-terrorists-families/


Guess that's 1 point.


I'm actually not sure what Clinton supports on this issue. I could only find this from 2000.

"We are a very different country than we were 200 years ago," Clinton said. "I believe strongly that in a democracy, we should respect the will of the people and to me, that means it's time to do away with the Electoral College and move to the popular election of our president."

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/hillary-calls-for-end-to-electoral-college/


Everyone is.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_federal_executive_orders


This is a bizarre reason to oppose fiscal liberalism.

But sure: 2.


You'll find 2009 - 2013 is just a continuation of U.S. middle eastern policy that's been in play since before both of us were born.

But regardless - the fact that she has previous political experience shouldn't be a strike against here: Even if that experience was in a position you don't like.

Well, I guess I was lied to then.

[Judean Zealot]

Well, after building the huge empire that now is The Trump Organisation, he naturally took personal profits from it. Whether it was his intention or not, I don't think it is relevant. The truth is that it helps people, it helps the economy and it helps his country. And he did it because he was educated that way by his father who was also a real estate developer and who encouraged him to follow his steps.

The question is why this makes him deserve respect. I personally see no reason to respect someone who did something good by accident.

[Vlerchan]

This turn in conversation has made me wonder what impact pornhub has on the regional economy.

The statistics don't seem to exist unfortunately.

[Judean Zealot]

This turn in conversation has made me wonder what impact pornhub has on the regional economy.

The statistics don't seem to exist unfortunately.

Lolwhat?

[Vlerchan]

Lolwhat?
The same logic that demonstrates Trump is an asset to his nation justifies the leaders of Pornhub or whatever firm you want to fill the gap with.

[Judean Zealot]

The same logic that demonstrates Trump is an asset to his nation justifies the leaders of Pornhub or whatever firm you want to fill the gap with.

Mind you, many people here wouldn't see the problem with that.

[Dalton_Holt]

By the way I accidentally said executive action when I meant affirmative action. She's probably for executive action as well but that's not what I meant.

[Living For Love]

The question is why this makes him deserve respect. I personally see no reason to respect someone who did something good by accident.
Lol, how someone can become a billionaire by accident is something I'd like to know.

[Vlerchan]

By the way I accidentally said executive action when I meant affirmative action. She's probably for executive action as well but that's not what I meant.
Actually, the one time I saw Trump get asked about affirmative action he dodged the question.

It's in this interview (video) (http://edition.cnn.com/2015/12/13/politics/donald-trump-antonin-scalia-affirmative-action/) hosted on CNN.

---

I presume, in general though, you find Trump a better character because he's less 'statist'.

That seems to be the theme.

[Dalton_Holt]

They're all statist, lol. Personally I think they're equally bad. But how can I judge them when everything they say is probably another lie? I know they're both shit, beyond that I can't say. I was going by what I'd heard they said their views were, but now you vshowed me some of that was false. I actually found it difficult to find anything on Clinton besides a Wikipedia article, which is where I got that information, and even that didn't have much. So I guess I saw her as a bit worse for how closed she is, not to mention the Clinton body count conspiracy she and her husband were in during his presidency.

Still, if Trump becomes president we'd probably see a revolt happen. With how many people hate him? And if his declared policies actually go through? However, I can see Clinton being honored for being the first woman president and everyone will see past her corruption. They're equally evil yet which would be worse for the country?

[phuckphace]

predictions if Trump wins and closes the borders:

1) massive chimpout by the cartels ensues. inner cities descend into chaos
2) martial law declared, tanks roll in
3) cartels BTFO
4) Ordnung restored
5) Trump declares himself President for life

anyone???

despotism is the logical conclusion to these times anyway, might as well get on the ball now, yo

[Uniquemind]

Please elaborate

Sorry THAT was a typo.

[Vlerchan]

I actually found it difficult to find anything on Clinton besides a Wikipedia article[.]
Here's (https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/) Clinton's own website.

Here's (http://www.ontheissues.org/Hillary_Clinton.htm) an ostensibly independent tracker.

---

I also had a flick through there: the fact that a campaign goal is to overturn a judicial decision (https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/campaign-finance-reform/) is disturbing.

---

I also read some of Tump's manifesto again. I seemed to skim past this claim last time.


Economists estimate the Chinese yuan is undervalued by anywhere from 15% to 40%. This grossly undervalued yuan gives Chinese exporters a huge advantage while imposing the equivalent of a heavy tariff on U.S. exports to China.

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/us-china-trade-reform

I would actually love to see the study that reported this. There's no way the Yaun is undervalued.

[Judean Zealot]

Lol, how someone can become a billionaire by accident is something I'd like to know.

His becoming a billionaire wasn't an accident, the fact that it helps America is. Think about it this way: would he make money if it would harm Americans?

[ZACK0]

I'm not actually from America so not too sure about politics there but what i do know is that he is essentially like all politicians lying cunts who will say anything just to get into power

[Vlerchan]

Trump rose to odds on favourite this afternoon.

http://www.paddypower.com/bet/politics/other-politics/us-politics?ev_oc_grp_ids=481890

[Brieftime]

The guy is an idiot.

[Miserabilia]

Let me put it this way.

I do not like Donald Trump or the things he stands for.
But I hate how everyone is attacking him for, personality, things he said (that aren't relevant to politics).

Seriously, it's suddenly so popular to hate on Donald Trump, but because people and also the media put more emphasis on him as a person than the political ideology behind it, it looses it's value; I have friends who are extremely conservative/right wing and hate on Donald Trump, completely missing the point that most of their views overlap.

I wish people would dislike him for what his ideology is and what him in government can do to the people and the country.

[phuckphace]

I wish people would dislike him for what his ideology is and what him in government can do to the people and the country.

http://i.imgur.com/PRxMPiv.png

:D

[Sir Suomi]

Why the hell is this thread still going...Might as well sticky note it to show the brilliance that is VT's Political Community.

[Porpoise101]

image (http://i.imgur.com/PRxMPiv.png)

:D
For you:
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160115/c643f0c4c6a0dba4ecc2e5774c2e0a32.jpg

[phuckphace]

^lel

http://i.imgur.com/uczvWlJ.jpg

the hat on the eagle was a nice touch

[Kahn]

http://i68.tinypic.com/2a6qghy.jpg

I'm not a fan of Trump but his supporters do some great photoshop work lol

[phuckphace]

BUILD IT

http://i.imgur.com/7M7Euny.jpg

[StoppingTom]

^lel

image (http://i.imgur.com/uczvWlJ.jpg)

the hat on the eagle was a nice touch

please do not deface the visage of the Emprah with that heresy k thx

[phuckphace]

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/chinas-great-brain-robbery-hacking-us-companies-national-security-emergency-1538590

I finally understand why the God-Emperor has been singling out China for its economic shenanigans. Westerners have always made the mistake of assuming that these Ausländers are just like us except in outward appearance, leading inevitably to trusting them far more than we should (a fatal habit we've got to cure). the results include stolen IP, reverse-engineered designs, "stainless" steel that rusts into a heap due to intentional adulteration, disposable computers, etc.

[Sir Suomi]

BUILD IT

image (http://i.imgur.com/7M7Euny.jpg)



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afnJbdT4t5g (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afnJbdT4t5g")

[West Coast Sheriff]

To be honest, I am sort of enamored with him. I mean, I would never vote for him, but I like to think that I would. He's a fun candidate to say that you support. He does have a cult of personality...

I could say the same about both Trump and the Bern. Both say things I like, but neither seem like they could actually run the Oval Office.

[dzoni]

I doubt Trump will run the US into the ground more than Bush.

Also, IMHO Hillary would be the best bet, she was the First Lady, her husband a 2 term president...

I don't like Bill Clinton, just to clear things.

[Stronk Serb]

Let me put it this way.

I do not like Donald Trump or the things he stands for.
But I hate how everyone is attacking him for, personality, things he said (that aren't relevant to politics).

Seriously, it's suddenly so popular to hate on Donald Trump, but because people and also the media put more emphasis on him as a person than the political ideology behind it, it looses it's value; I have friends who are extremely conservative/right wing and hate on Donald Trump, completely missing the point that most of their views overlap.

I wish people would dislike him for what his ideology is and what him in government can do to the people and the country.

^lel

image (http://i.imgur.com/uczvWlJ.jpg)

the hat on the eagle was a nice touch

image (http://i68.tinypic.com/2a6qghy.jpg)

I'm not a fan of Trump but his supporters do some great photoshop work lol

BUILD IT

image (http://i.imgur.com/7M7Euny.jpg)

Well, Trump would fit the role for God-Emperor pretty well.

I doubt Trump will run the US into the ground more than Bush.

Also, IMHO Hillary would be the best bet, she was the First Lady, her husband a 2 term president...

I don't like Bill Clinton, just to clear things.

Yes, and they ruined the Middle East and the Balkans, the first starting the islamkst extremism against the US. Trump voted against Iraq 2001, and he would at least withdraw support for Kosovo and we might actually see it in our borders again. Also he would work more with Russia which is a big plus for global stability, he also promised to not shit countries up, the opposite of standard US foreign policy. This is just his foreign policy, but he plans on some good stuff internaly, like income tax exemptions for those who earn up to 25,000$ a year. Hillary would just keep the status quo.

[Porpoise101]

Trump voted against Iraq 2001
Where did he vote? He was never a politician.

[Stronk Serb]

Where did he vote? He was never a politician.

He said he was a Senator or something at that time on a talk show.

[phuckphace]

Trump has never held political office before so you're prob thinking of somebody else

[Vlerchan]

I believe people are referring to the content of this 2004 article:

LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - Billionaire Donald Trump, America's toughest employer, would like to fire the Bush Administration for its decision to invade Iraq, according to an interview in the August edition "Esquire," due to be released on Friday.

http://www.rense.com/general54/bushs.htm

The understanding I have is that the media had grown critical in general of the invasion at this stage.

[phuckphace]

Bloomberg: populism is back and here's why that's a problem

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-01-20/trump-is-losing-the-davos-primary-among-his-fellow-billionaires

Anti-establishment candidates are making inroads because “Middle America has lost faith in the economy,” said Tim Adams, head of the Institute of International Finance, and a U.S. Treasury official under the George W. Bush administration. That “leads people to extreme options and outcomes.”

http://i.imgur.com/asHsdQb.png you don't say

“It’s hugely important that you don’t get this populism to spread on too large a scale. It’s not just bad and ugly, it can be dangerous,” Dennelind said in an interview in Davos. “Hopefully it will get sane leading up to the real race.”

DANGEROUS, he says, but for whom I wonder? it's almost as if populism is diametrically opposed to borderless, nationless, allegience-free amassing of capital!

[Uniquemind]

From what I've read about conspiracy politics, whom fuels both TED Cruz and trump, and on the left side somewhat Bernie sanders as well.

Is that Bloomberg does not have a good reputation amongst those supporters.

In fact he's considered as a member of the illuminati and Trump is not so that's why Trump gets support.

[CharlieHorse]

Honestly I don't care anymore. If he wins, I'll move to Canada. If he doesn't, I'll continue doing absolutely nothing.

[Zachary G]

This is what I think on Trump, I know its not much, but I really dont care for him and think hes a real clown. I think he would also be very dangerous to us as a people.

[Syzygy]

This is what I think on Trump, I know its not much, but I really dont care for him and think hes a real clown. I think he would also be very dangerous to us as a people.

explain further in depth?

[Zachary G]

The man is a mouth piece -- hes a great business man, but he doesnt know the first thing about political strategy, finesse, or correctness so how is he supposed to be diplomatic when tensions run high between some of the countries who want to war with us that we are trying to make peace with? The way he handles his businesses and business counterparts is not the same way you can deal with foreign countries and stuff. If anything I see him sending us right into war with countries we otherwise would have at least some kind of amicable relationship with. And thats not to mention the domestic part of things, if he has his way he will set us back years because of his segregationists ideas about immigrants and non-native born citizens. Hes a clown and spends more time trashing the other candidates and the president than he does focusing on any of the relevant issues facing us as a people and our country as a whole. This is just the way I feel.

[Stronk Serb]

The man is a mouth piece -- hes a great business man, but he doesnt know the first thing about political strategy, finesse, or correctness so how is he supposed to be diplomatic when tensions run high between some of the countries who want to war with us that we are trying to make peace with? The way he handles his businesses and business counterparts is not the same way you can deal with foreign countries and stuff. If anything I see him sending us right into war with countries we otherwise would have at least some kind of amicable relationship with. And thats not to mention the domestic part of things, if he has his way he will set us back years because of his segregationists ideas about immigrants and non-native born citizens. Hes a clown and spends more time trashing the other candidates and the president than he does focusing on any of the relevant issues facing us as a people and our country as a whole. This is just the way I feel.

Politics is like business and marketing, except the product you are trying to "sell" is supposed to benefit your people. Many successful politicians are either silver tongues or silver tongues who capitalized on their talents outside politics.

[Judean Zealot]

What I don't get is why Trump supporters aren't concerned that Trump most likely views the presidency as just a grand business opportunity for Trump Inc.

[Judean Zealot]

ArjHjcbVaz4

Drumpf's nemesis. I like 18 year old Ted. :D

[phuckphace]

http://i.imgur.com/YO8dX7P.png