Zionism vs Other Nationalisms

[Porpoise101]

So I just wanted a thread to have people discuss the possibility of a difference between Zionism and other nationalist movements. Personally I think Zionism is like Islamism which is inherently condescending to people who aren't in the 'club.' What are your thoughts as an outsider or insider?

[phuckphace]

to the best of my knowledge, Zionism can refer to any variant of Jewish nationalism. there are left-wing, centrist and right-wing factions. ethnic chauvinism isn't necessarily synonymous with nationalism anyway.

[Magus]

Zionism is a nationalist movement(like the Arab Baathism), and that's is all to it. And you can form into anyway you want it, it can be benevolent and it can be malevolent.

[phuckphace]

daily reminder that phuck-nationalism is the real deal (homie)

[dxcxdzv]

I'm an Earth-nationalist.

[phuckphace]

I'm an Earth-nationalist.

syntax error

[dxcxdzv]

syntax error
https://img.memecdn.com/serious-fox-is-serious_c_670749.jpg


I'm a Earth-nationalist?

[Porpoise101]

Yes you guys are right, some Zionists want an exclusive homeland but others just want a safe nation to live in where they can celebrate their culture.

[phuckphace]

image (https://img.memecdn.com/serious-fox-is-serious_c_670749.jpg)

I'm a Earth-nationalist?

the Earth isn't a nation, it's only the planet on which many nations reside. you belong to only one of them, France, ergo "I'm a citizen of the world" is nonsensical and oxymoronic

[Left Now]

the Earth isn't a nation, it's only the planet on which many nations reside. you belong to only one of them, France, ergo "I'm a citizen of the world" is nonsensical and oxymoronic

I guess he just wanted to say that "He does not give a Fox" to Nationalistic attitudes?

[dxcxdzv]

the Earth isn't a nation, it's only the planet on which many nations reside. you belong to only one of them, France, ergo "I'm a citizen of the world" is nonsensical and oxymoronic
You may refer "Earth-nationalism" as a neologism.

[phuckphace]

it's grammatically valid but the concept only works on other single-nation planets that aren't Earth

[Vlerchan]

What he's referring to is called 'globalism'.

'Earth nationalism' is an oxymoron.

[dxcxdzv]

it's grammatically valid but the concept only works on other single-nation planets that aren't Earth

What he's referring to is called 'globalism'.

'Earth nationalism' is an oxymoron.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/ad57f3eddae7845644664eb6845eb2e1/tumblr_mso9m9ySs11rey868o1_500.gif


Yup and it was willingly an oxymoron.

[StoppingTime]

Let's try and keep this on topic, please.

[Sir Suomi]

Keeping on topic? When the hell does that ever happen in ROTW? :P

K, but on a serious thought, I have mixed feelings on Zionism.

On one hand, I feel like every culture should be free to make themselves prosper as they deem fit. The Jewish population has faced a lot of adversary throughout history so it's no wonder that they'd wish to form a nation that they could call their own without worry of outside influence.

However I disagree with how it's being presented in current day Israel. While the Jews do have both strong cultural and historical claims to the region, this doesn't mean they should mistreat the other peoples around them *cough cough Palestine*.

So Zionism should be taken with a grain of salt. It can be both a good and bad thing, depending on what angle you look at it from.

[phuckphace]

out of all of humanity's self-inflicted catastrophies, globalism is by far the worst

[Left Now]

Keeping on topic? When the hell does that ever happen in ROTW? :P

K, but on a serious thought, I have mixed feelings on Zionism.

On one hand, I feel like every culture should be free to make themselves prosper as they deem fit. The Jewish population has faced a lot of adversary throughout history so it's no wonder that they'd wish to form a nation that they could call their own without worry of outside influence.

However I disagree with how it's being presented in current day Israel. While the Jews do have both strong cultural and historical claims to the region, this doesn't mean they should mistreat the other peoples around them *cough cough Palestine*.

So Zionism should be taken with a grain of salt. It can be both a good and bad thing, depending on what angle you look at it from.

The fact that someone's grand grand parents used to live in a place thousand years ago is not a logical reason for that person to claim that the land is his too.

The land belongs to those who have been there for thousand years,not those whose grand fathers used to live there thousand years ago.

Nobody can really claim that Pelistin-Israel was completely cleared of most of its local population throughout history before the formation of current government in charge there.

Despite the fact that I hate double-faced Palestinian groups like HAMAS and Islamic Jihad for claiming their savage methodes are according to the principles of their religion while they are not and also seeking support of Saudi Arabia,and I really dislike Palestinians in general for their support of Saddam during his aggression to Iran,even sending mercenaries to aid his army in battle alongside other Middle Eastern nations,their claim on those lands are more legitimate than descendants of the immigrants who came to them just during last 80 years ago.

[phuckphace]

Saddam (PBUH) was my homeboy. RIP

[Left Now]

phuckphace,I would prefer that phrase in State of Decay Lifeline for RIP for Saddam.

Mods,I know we will stay on topic do not worry.

[Stronk Serb]

Well, my inner atheist is screaming that the Jews don'thave a legitimate claim on Israel but what the hell, I think that every ethnic group deserves the right to have their independent state and to be governed by themselves. Both sides are guilty of horrible things.

[Judean Zealot]

Well, I'm the ultimate Zionist 'round here, so I'm bookmarking this thread. I'm away from home right now, and I won't be able to properly address this thread for like two and a half weeks, but I will gladly respond when I get back home.

[Porpoise101]

Ok so I read this book called City of Oranges and it tells the story of one city called Jaffa (now the Yafo in Tel Aviv-Yafo). After reading that I realised that it was the sudden influx of Jews from Eastern Europe who did not want to accept Arab culture (like learning Arabic) and the fact that Arabs felt betrayed by Britain in WW1 that caused the present conflict in the Levant. The Jews living there were fine and Jews from the Middle East and Maghreb were fine (just for clarification). Also extremism played a big role.

[phuckphace]

bump
Judean Zealot

hey Rabbi, you owe this thread some posts!

[Judean Zealot]

Well, before I even get into my own defense of Zionism, I'm having trouble understanding what the OP is even asking. Why is Jewish nationalism any different than any other form of nationalism?

Edit: I'm also not sure what to do. Defend my particular brand of Zionism, or the diametrically opposed Zionism of the current State of Israel. I cannot do both. So do you want me to defend myself or the State of Israel?

[Porpoise101]

I was initially wondering if Zionism implies an exclusive Jewish homeland. I now see that there were some dissenters to this belief although this school of thought died out pretty much after tensions grew between the Arabs and Jewish immigrants from Eastern Europe.

[Judean Zealot]

I was initially wondering if Zionism implies an exclusive Jewish homeland. I now see that there were some dissenters to this belief although this school of thought died out pretty much after tensions grew between the Arabs and Jewish immigrants from Eastern Europe.

If you're asking a historical question, than the answer is both. Zionism means the belief that the Jews either ought to be given or conquer (that varied, and depended on the faction) a piece of land for Jews to govern. Some wanted to tolerate gentile minorities and allow them to participate in the government and some did not. Some wanted to promote the Jewish religion and some wanted to destroy it. All in all, "Zionism" is too general of a term. You would have to specify the faction and then analyze it (i.e. Haganah, Etzel, or Lehi).