Shes not brave stop it

[Broken Toy]

Im sick of hearing how caitlyn jenner is brave for coming out as trans. Like how is she brave for it?

You know who is brave:
Soldiers
organ/marrow/blood donors
Trans people

She isnt brave because she has none of the struggles of trans people who come out such as:

Being disowned. Wouldnt happen, too famous, family would face a huge backlash worldwide

Being bullied. For every 1 message against her there is 10 of support, non-famous trans people may suffer everyday from bullying without so much support


Additionally, she is milking it for all its worth. She accepted the bravery award she was given, even though literally thousands were saying it should have gone to the teen who raised 1million dollars for charity while suffering with brain cancer. If she had a shred of decency she wouldnt have accepted it, but she did.

Fuck caitlyn jenner, power to trans people who are having problems everday. Support them rather than her

[Abhorrence]

Everyone who comes out is brave, this is a pretty ignorant statement I'll be honest. Especially being a former Olympic athlete and being known as a man for over 60 years only to finally reveal that she was lying to everyone including herself. The fact that she has now become who she really is, is a brave move.

I understand that she wouldn't be disowned or anything but she definitely did a very good thing for the trans community by coming out. Having publicity makes things generally more acceptable and it gets people talking about it and debating and seeing different sides.

[Broken Toy]

Everyone who comes out is brave, this is a pretty ignorant statement I'll be honest. Especially being a former Olympic athlete and being known as a man for over 60 years only to finally reveal that she was lying to everyone including herself. The fact that she has now become who she really is, is a brave move.

I understand that she wouldn't be disowned or anything but she definitely did a very good thing for the trans community by coming out. Having publicity makes things generally more acceptable and it gets people talking about it and debating and seeing different sides.

Yeah i suppose shes a bit brave for coming out, but it is a safe environment, and she is pocketing millions from it. She is getting so much publicity for coming out, but the fact remains trans people struggle everyday and i havent seen any news about how she is helping them. I might be wrong, but she just speaks about being trans a lot. I would expect her to use the money she is making to help them, but i havent heard that.

I would be happy to be proved wrong, but until then i still think shes a bit selfish. She should never have accepted that award, literally any trans person who came out is 'more brave' because it can genuinely be life threatening

[Abhorrence]

Yeah i suppose shes a bit brave for coming out, but it is a safe environment, and she is pocketing millions from it. She is getting so much publicity for coming out, but the fact remains trans people struggle everyday and i havent seen any news about how she is helping them. I might be wrong, but she just speaks about being trans a lot. I would expect her to use the money she is making to help them, but i havent heard that.

I would be happy to be proved wrong, but until then i still think shes a bit selfish. She should never have accepted that award, literally any trans person who came out is 'more brave' because it can genuinely be life threatening
I don't know whether she is doing anything with the money either and I totally agree that she should if she isn't but I haven't exactly looked it up. I don't think bravery is a competition though, the fact is that people don't know about the others who struggle with sexuality and gender issues because they aren't famous so they're not going to be called brave by the general public because they are unknown.

[SethfromMI]

I think the question is though should she/he be glorified for simply coming out. Whether you agree with the choice made, I do think one can admit it would take courage and some bravery to actually follow through.

that being said, the fact she is famous, the media wants to glorify her and will often forget about some individuals who are more worth of recognition for their deeds.

[Broken Toy]

I don't know whether she is doing anything with the money either and I totally agree that she should if she isn't but I haven't exactly looked it up. I don't think bravery is a competition though, the fact is that people don't know about the others who struggle with sexuality and gender issues because they aren't famous so they're not going to be called brave by the general public because they are unknown.

Yeah i know, but it ends up being one because of awards etc. everytime i see her i just feel what she does is still about her.

Trans people would he pretty cool to go out with though because they would know you so well:P

[phuckphace]

more like Bruce Dejennerate amirite

[Stronk Serb]

One thing is to be trans and come out, the other is fo come out as trans as a way of self-promotion and milking it for money. She reminds me of the politicians here. They use pretty much regular things for self-promotion.

[phuckphace]

most/all trannies I've encountered seem to do it mainly or totally for the attention (feeding their runaway egomania) and even negative attention is apparently basked in. they are the incarnation of Ego. besides the ugliness of Ego itself, there's also the mockery that is made of femininity by mentally ill men who believe excising their genitals, wearing drag and speaking in an affected, sing-song, pseudo-feminine way is all it takes to be a woman.

I do agree with the OP in a certain sense, it isn't "bravery" when your audience is a broken society that cheers for everything except normal behavior. idk if you guys realized but the left already won the culture war (thanks, Decline!) so it's not like there's going to be much resistance for too much longer anyway. all the bigots do these days is grumble loudly and buy chicken sandwiches

[Zenos]

[QUOTE=phuckphace;3181288]most/all trannies I've encountered seem to do it mainly or totally for the attention (feeding their runaway egomania) and even negative attention is apparently basked in. they are the incarnation of Ego.
( lol trannies don't have a lock on ego mania,and no not all trannies are an incarnation of the EGo)

[Stronk Serb]

Our minister of labor ceremonially opens an elevator in a retirement home (FROM THE INSIDE LMAOOO) and in the news they spin it up like he opened a damn elevator to Heaven or something, not an elevator of a 6 floor retirement home. I see it something like this is with Caitlyn. The need for self-promotion (and cashing in on it in a way) is present in both cases and both degenerate cultures approve of it.

[Uniquemind]

Im sick of hearing how caitlyn jenner is brave for coming out as trans. Like how is she brave for it?

You know who is brave:
Soldiers
organ/marrow/blood donors
Trans people

She isnt brave because she has none of the struggles of trans people who come out such as:

Being disowned. Wouldnt happen, too famous, family would face a huge backlash worldwide

Being bullied. For every 1 message against her there is 10 of support, non-famous trans people may suffer everyday from bullying without so much support


Additionally, she is milking it for all its worth. She accepted the bravery award she was given, even though literally thousands were saying it should have gone to the teen who raised 1million dollars for charity while suffering with brain cancer. If she had a shred of decency she wouldnt have accepted it, but she did.

Fuck caitlyn jenner, power to trans people who are having problems everday. Support them rather than her


I think anger can be redirected towards the system of how prize recognition is given out.

Like only 1 top prize for all these nominees, who the heck decided to place criteria like that?

I'll tell you, it's cuz the price ceremonies themselves are built to psychological stroke the ego of humanity by only allowing 1 top prize winner a year.

They do this because the sense of "competition-anticipation of who will take it all" sucks in viewers and that's ad commercial revenue.

It's always about money, ego, and sex.

[Sir Suomi]

more like Bruce Dejennerate amirite

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ3EiKohg7jzfk-3WNXzqc3pBLJUkFihdS7NljG8Yq73CmMTvvdjw

Lol but no seriously Bruce is a disgrace.

As a side note, he claims to have been a woman his entire life, does that mean he should forfeit his Men's Olympic medal?

[everlong]

I suppose it was a brave act, but I don't think she deserves nearly as much praise as she does.

[Vlerchan]

[...] does that mean he should forfeit his Men's Olympic medal?
I'm quite sure that the 'Men's' is a reference to sex here, not gender.

[lyhom]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy_of_relative_privation

this "she's not brave wah" argument just gets funnier the more I read it lmfaooo

[lyhom]

in all seriousness though I at least get some of the point that the op was trying to say (that caitlyn is too famous by now to suffer most of the potential consequences of coming out as trans) but it should be kept in mind that not even a few years ago doing what she did likely would have a lot more backlash so that's probably where a lot of the braveness comes from

like I don't particularly care for caitlyn (or anyone from the kardashian/jenner family) but hey, she publicly came out after being known as a man for so long, and personally I find that impressive

[Babs]

I don't see why people care if someone calls her brave. It's a very miniscule thing to get upset about.
eta: upon further reflection, I understand why some people would be peeved because they believe she's milking it for money. I still think people are making this a bigger deal than it has to be though.

[Hideous]

Well, she has been given a platform to discuss the violence towards the trans community and to spread awareness. Trans people do look up to her. She lets them know that they're not alone.

[Microcosm]

It's one of those social dilemmas where if I actually express how I feel people will point me out and basically start a firing squad of SJW hate about why I'm against "equality."

But the thing is I have an opinion that I believe is entirely reasonable, so I'll share it.

No. "She" isn't brave. In fact, he was quite cowardly in what he did. He gave into a fetishy desire to be something that he clearly isn't. He couldn't just accept who he was as a human being. Gender doesn't define you. It isn't what matters most. I think he's unintentionally spreading the idea that you can get attention from this. He's also putting that idea into the heads of kids by making it a widespread knowledge that gender is all that matters.

What if all of our kids were transgender? The whole world becomes surgically disfigured people who care only about their gender and how many looks they can get from being different.

I honestly believe our society and children are worth more than that.

[Vlerchan]

It's one of those social dilemmas where if I actually express how I feel people will point me out and basically start a firing squad of SJW hate about why I'm against "equality."
Judgement is good eh?

He gave into a fetishy desire to be something that he clearly isn't.
I have no idea how it can be claimed that altering her outer-appearance to reflect his inner-appearance is being something she isn't.

Keeping it short I think you're opinion isn't relevant at all when it comes to people deciding who they are. Do you believe it is?

He couldn't just accept who he was as a human being.
No - You can't accept who she is as a human being.

Gender doesn't define you.
This is ironic because you're a lot closer to claiming this than Transgender people are.

Here's a question - If was to come out as homosexual would that be the same as claiming that sexuality is all that matters?

I think he's unintentionally spreading the idea that you can get attention from this.
You can also get attention for being homosexual - and in the media people still do.

Tell me - Is that making people homosexual?

He's also putting that idea into the heads of kids by making it a widespread knowledge that gender is all that matters.
I'm quite sure that Transgender people see themselves as more than just their gender.

This argument is as baseless as it gets.

What if all of our kids were transgender?
I wouldn't care.

The one thing that worries me about a child revealing themselves as Transgender is that the child would be at a a greater risk towards depression and suicide and a host of other issues because of their oppression.

The whole world becomes surgically disfigured people who care only about their gender and how many looks they can get from being different.
I retract the above - This is as baseless as it gets.

Though I disagree with surgical transitions - it's a product of our patriarchal condition: it shouldn't be something required for transgenders to feel true to themselves.

[Microcosm]

Judgement is good eh?

I never said that even in my post about judgement. I said judgement was healthy in certain situations.

I have no idea how it can be claimed that altering her outer-appearance to reflect his inner-appearance is being something she isn't.

Last time I checked, gender was a physical trait. There is no such thing as "inner-appearance." Perhaps personality if that's what you mean.

Keeping it short I think you're opinion isn't relevant at all when it comes to people deciding who they are. Do you believe it is?

Yes. The transgender movement effects all of us. Jenner is a popular face of the transgender movement now. So, yeah. It effects society as a whole.

No - You can't accept who she is as a human being.
I accept who she is as a human being. I couldn't care less about Jenner, but the idea of undergoing surgery and such to the extent that she did and spreading this as something that can get attention is what I'm worried about.

Here's a question - If was to come out as homosexual would that be the same as claiming that sexuality is all that matters?

Fair point.

You can also get attention for being homosexual - and in the media people still do.

Tell me - Is that making people homosexual?

I've seen a lot of people who say their bi typically just because they know they can get attention out of it or they convince themselves that it's true to get attention unknowingly. How do I know? Because I was one of those people. I convinced myself once and then realized how stupid the whole thing was and how much I'd tricked myself.

Afterwards, I've noticed many other people coming out as bi. I also highly doubt that most of them are actually bi.

I'm quite sure that Transgender people see themselves as more than just their gender.

This argument is as baseless as it gets.

That's how the media portrays them, and that's what people actually get from it.

The one thing that worries me about a child revealing themselves as Transgender is that the child would be at a a greater risk towards depression and suicide and a host of other issues because of their oppression.

Exactly. Children will see this, then they will impulsively realize they can get attention out of it(as children tend to do), then they'll start acting like the opposite sex and then they'll regret it when they realize they aren't actually trans. For this reason, it's not a good idea to put the idea of transgender into their heads. It's better to just give them the message that they should accept who they are.


Though I disagree with surgical transitions - it's a product of our patriarchal condition: it shouldn't be something required for transgenders to feel true to themselves.

But people like Jenner make the idea widespread and make it seem right and normal.

That just leads to immense confusion.

[Vlerchan]

Last time I checked, gender was a physical trait.
Well, you're wrong.

Gender refers to a social role.
Sex refers to biological traits.

Sex = male and female

Gender = masculine and feminine

So in essence:

Sex refers to biological differences; chromosomes, hormonal profiles, internal and external sex organs.

Gender describes the characteristics that a society or culture delineates as masculine or feminine.

http://www.med.monash.edu.au/gendermed/sexandgender.html

Of course regardless it doesn't matter.

There is no such thing as "inner-appearance." Perhaps personality if that's what you mean.
There's feeling 'masculine' and there's feeling 'feminine'.

Yes. The transgender movement effects all of us. Jenner is a popular face of the transgender movement now. So, yeah. It effects society as a whole.
So, you should get to decide how Jenner feels about herself.

You might need to expand on this defence a bit.

I couldn't care less about Jenner, but the idea of undergoing surgery and such to the extent that she did and spreading this as something that can get attention is what I'm worried about.
Please quote Jenner where she's spreading undergoing sex-reassignment surgery as something to get someone attention.

I've seen a lot of people who say their bi typically just because they know they can get attention out of it or they convince themselves that it's true to get attention unknowingly. How do I know? Because I was one of those people. I convinced myself once and then realized how stupid the whole thing was and how much I'd tricked myself.

Afterwards, I've noticed many other people coming out as bi. I also highly doubt that most of them are actually bi.
I'm always going to be sceptical when a case study focus' on just a single person to describe an entire phenomenon.

That's how the media portrays them, and that's what people actually get from it.
Ok. So our problem isn't with Transgender people then?

It's with how the media portrays them. I think that's a fair point.

Exactly. Children will see this, then they will impulsively realize they can get attention out of it(as children tend to do), then they'll start acting like the opposite sex and then they'll regret it when they realize they aren't actually trans. For this reason, it's not a good idea to put the idea of transgender into their heads. It's better to just give them the message that they should accept who they are.
It's better to tell them we'll accept who these people are, and then disguise the trans people who exist in our societies?

Sounds counter-productive.

I think we should all just stop caring what people choose to identify as on the gender spectrum. Like I do. I don't comment on people coming out as Trans, unless I perceive those people to be maligned, because I just don't care, at all. It's conservatives who make a big deal about it, sparking progressives to respond, that creates the disagreeable dynamic.

But people like Jenner make the idea widespread and make it seem right and normal.
Sure. But I'm defending his gender identification.

I should also add that I find it more productive to criticise patriarchy than the things woman consider the correct thing to do beneath patriarchy.

[Microcosm]

Vlerchan,

"Identifying" as the opposite gender than your biological sex doesn't make any sense. Time has shown that men are naturally supposed to have a manly sort of character(or masculine, as you said) and women to have a feminine sort of character. It doesn't make sense to think otherwise because it is definitively true(as in based on definitions of what a male is and female is).

It's better to tell them we'll accept who these people are, and then disguise the trans people who exist in our societies?

Nah. More like stop making such a big deal out of it in the media and in the character of society as a whole.

[Vlerchan]

"Identifying" as the opposite gender than your biological sex doesn't make any sense.
Lots of people have demonstrated it can.

Time has shown that men are naturally supposed to have a manly sort of character(or masculine, as you said) and women to have a feminine sort of character.
Time, in Western societies, where men and woman are both subject to different social pressures, has demonstrated this. It's hardly conclusive evidence.

By 'hardly' I also mean it's not conclusive evidence at all.

---

I've also never seen a coherent definition of natural.

It doesn't make sense to think otherwise because it is definitively true(as in based on definitions of what a male is and female is).
We defined that you have to be a certain way, and if you disagree then you're irrational (lack sense).

To me, that's irrational.

[phuckphace]

( lol trannies don't have a lock on ego mania,and no not all trannies are an incarnation of the EGo)

(lol replying to statements I didn't make)

[Babs]

What if all of our kids were transgender? The whole world becomes surgically disfigured people who care only about their gender and how many looks they can get from being different.

I honestly believe our society and children are worth more than that.

This irks me. It sounds too similar to the super anti-gay Christians who believe that if gay marriage or whatever is allowed then suddenly all our children will be gay and the human race will die out.

Fact is, not all of our kids are transgender, so that's irrelevant. Not all of our kids will be surgically disfigured, and not every human being will be a greedy narcissist. The human race lives for another generation.
Correct me if I'm missing the point of that statement, but I think it's a pointless one.

[Microcosm]

Lots of people have demonstrated it can.

Should they be called "brave" for that?

Time, in Western societies, where men and woman are both subject to different social pressures, has demonstrated this. It's hardly conclusive evidence.

By 'hardly' I also mean it's not conclusive evidence at all.

---

I've also never seen a coherent definition of natural.

I doubt it was due to social pressures. I think it's more likely that it was due to the fact that everyone was perfectly comfortable with who they were and weren't always so determined to change themselves. What's the difference between now and then? Now, people feel empowered to change themselves when change is not necessary.

We defined that you have to be a certain way, and if you disagree then you're irrational (lack sense).

To me, that's irrational.

My opinion doesn't really matter, I guess because it doesn't matter what I think in someone's decision to change themselves(like you said earlier).

I think the question we really should be asking is: Is it right?

I don't think it is, or at least it is less right than just being comfortable with who you are. The latter idea is much better.

People that identify with a different sex than they were born with are merely causing themselves problems by embracing that impulse. You even admitted that they will experience depression. So, why do it?

I think if they realized that, they could resist the urge. They just don't really try to.

This irks me. It sounds too similar to the super anti-gay Christians who believe that if gay marriage or whatever is allowed then suddenly all our children will be gay and the human race will die out.

Fact is, not all of our kids are transgender, so that's irrelevant. Not all of our kids will be surgically disfigured, and not every human being will be a greedy narcissist. The human race lives for another generation.
Correct me if I'm missing the point of that statement, but I think it's a pointless one.

Here's what I intended the message to be from that: We would live in a world in which gender is a more examined and cared about issue than actual, meaningful issues like world hunger, war, etc.

I think the latter issues should be getting more media coverage and focus than transgender people.

[Vlerchan]

Should they be called "brave" for that?
In societies where people are unnecessarily maligned for it: Yes.

I doubt it was due to social pressures. I think it's more likely that it was due to the fact that everyone was perfectly comfortable with who they were and weren't always so determined to change themselves. What's the difference between now and then? Now, people feel empowered to change themselves when change is not necessary.
I'm talking about the reason men come to be masculine and woman come to be feminine in the first place - and not the breakdown of traditional gender roles.

---

It's also the case that increased individualism would be a product of social pressures though - because things don't happen in a vacuum.

People that identify with a different sex than they were born with are merely causing themselves problems by embracing that impulse. You even admitted that they will experience depression. So, why do it?
The likelihood is that these people face higher rates of depression and suicide amongst other things because these people are maligned. I would imagine these people choose to uncloset themselves because it's preferable than living behind a lie to them.

What problems do Transgender people face other than the problems that those against Trans-people create for them?

I think the latter issues should be getting more media coverage and focus than transgender people.
It gets media coverage because it's controversial. It's controversial because of it's detractors. People like me would be delighted to never have to mention that Trans-people exist as a political point.

[Microcosm]

In societies where people are unnecessarily maligned for it: Yes.

Person A does something that Person B considers harmful to society.
Person B maligns Person A for doing that thing.
If the reason person B considers the thing that Person A did as harmful to society is a good reason, then Person A is in the wrong.
Person B honestly believes they have a good reason.
So, convince Person B that he is wrong in maligning Person A.

I'm talking about the reason men come to be masculine and woman come to be feminine in the first place - and not the breakdown of traditional gender roles.

---

It's also the case that increased individualism would be a product of social pressures though - because things don't happen in a vacuum.

We'd have to address whether it is only right for a man to become masculine and a woman to become feminine.

If it is only right and appropriate for one biological sex to correspond to the gender identification, then transgenders who are proud are misguided. If it is only up to flexibility of opinion and there is no objectively right or wrong way, then it should be decided based on its effects or consequences.

Here's the consequences of a completely successful transgender movement:
-People feel more accepting towards others(good)
-People feel more empowered to change where change is not necessary(bad because change for the sake of change is meaningless and counter-productive)
-More transgender people become empowered to actually express the fact that they're transgender and may even take surgical action. (bad because this causes immense gender confusion among people and no one really knows who is actually a guy and who is actually a girl; or at the very least there would then be some degree of increased doubt).

The likelihood is that these people face higher rates of depression and suicide amongst other things because these people are maligned. I would imagine these people choose to uncloset themselves because it's preferable than living behind a lie to them.

What problems do Transgender people face other than the problems that those against Trans-people create for them?

If those that are against trans-people are justified in posing those problems, then transgender people or those in favor thereof should promptly answer them.

It gets media coverage because it's controversial. It's controversial because of it's detractors. People like me would be delighted to never have to mention that Trans-people exist as a political point.

Again, what if the detractors are right?

[Collinsworthington]

I don't know whether she is doing anything with the money either and I totally agree that she should if she isn't but I haven't exactly looked it up. I don't think bravery is a competition though, the fact is that people don't know about the others who struggle with sexuality and gender issues because they aren't famous so they're not going to be called brave by the general public because they are unknown.

well speaking from the espys standpoint it kind of is a competition, did u know that lost in all of this, singer akon just started his proje]t that will give 600 million africans solar power

[Vlerchan]

So, convince Person B that he is wrong in maligning Person A.
Sure. But I can still think Transgender people are brave regardless of whether those against Trans-people think their detraction is justified.

(bad because change for the sake of change is meaningless and counter-productive)
There's three standerd rebuttals here.

It's not change for the sake of change. That involved revisiting the right-and-proper assumption we discarded when we decided to take a consequentialist approach.

If it is change for the sake of change then what of analogous events? Is it immoral to dye my hair?

There also the final question of determining what necessary and unnecessary even means with regards to change.

---

Not to mention the numerous other means devised to approach moral dilemmas.

bad because this causes immense gender confusion among people and no one really knows who is actually a guy and who is actually a girl; or at the very least there would then be some degree of increased doubt
This doesn't make sense unless we visit the right-and-proper argument that we discarded when we took the consequentialist approach.

This was also the case when we decided homosexuals existed. The sky didn't collapse.

If those that are against trans-people are justified in posing those problems, then transgender people or those in favor thereof should promptly answer them.
If.

[Microcosm]

Vlerchan,

I'm gonna just go ahead and concede to defeat on this one. It seems to me that you're right and have provided adequate reasoning to accept transgenders and even to perhaps consider Jenner brave to some degree.

I saw this video too and it really inspired me.

bJw3s85EcxM

[Body odah Man]

I agree with the third point, but the other 2...I think only Caitlyn knows how much bravery it took to come clean.

[Karkat]

Oh boo hoo, one person can't be brave because others are more brave.

Guess what?

We are all flesh and blood. We can all be gone within an instant, and everything we've built up is rendered meaningless.

Who gives a fuck if you think Caitlyn Jenner isn't brave; that's your opinion, not a fact.

And as far as the award thing goes, she wasn't exactly in control of who won so it's pretty stupid to blame that on her.

It would've actually been a slap in the face of the trans community had she been like "ah nbd just a part of life lol"

No

All transpeople face difficulties. And unless you yourself are trans, who are you to tell them they don't?

Edit:
It's one of those social dilemmas where if I actually express how I feel people will point me out and basically start a firing squad of SJW hate about why I'm against "equality."

But the thing is I have an opinion that I believe is entirely reasonable, so I'll share it.

No. "She" isn't brave. In fact, he was quite cowardly in what he did. He gave into a fetishy desire to be something that he clearly isn't. He couldn't just accept who he was as a human being. Gender doesn't define you. It isn't what matters most. I think he's unintentionally spreading the idea that you can get attention from this. He's also putting that idea into the heads of kids by making it a widespread knowledge that gender is all that matters.

What if all of our kids were transgender? The whole world becomes surgically disfigured people who care only about their gender and how many looks they can get from being different.

I honestly believe our society and children are worth more than that.

Excuse me

Ok, for one thing, not every transperson 'goes around mutilating their genitals' that's an extreme generalization. I'm not gonna give up my equipment, tens of thousands of dollars, and a fuck ton of nerve endings to feel ok with my body one third of the time

Because I do not just identify with the male sex and gender
But the female sex and gender
As well as being completely sexless and gender neutral- I'd probably be happier becoming a eunuch entirely, but even then, I'm not 100% asexual. I have desires.

There are those who are intersex
There are those who are a third gender culturally- I personally am not on either end, being neither physically male nor aligning myself with great spirits. I'm simply a normal, mortal human who happens to be constantly changing and dynamic.

Gender is not solely about physical appearance. It is mental and emotional, sometimes spiritual.

There have been transgender people for longer than there have been people hating them. They are considered blessed ones by traditions older than the government I'm under, and the government those who founded my government were under.

Like that was really insensitive. And I'm not the only one here who is trans.

Edit edit: I'm referring to the Fa'afafine and Two Spirit peoples when I refer to a cultural third gender- there might be more, but these are the ones I'm familiar with and have cultural background relating to.
I am neither.

[Broken Toy]

Seriously, can we all just stop waving our dicks, no one is truly right or wrong when it comes to social opinion. We are just products of how our ancestors interpreted something, then it is passed on until you get to a point where society is so different 2 people can be completely the opposite in the same space.

Can we all agree on the original point, that caitlyn jenner does not face the challenges of young, non-famous trans people, and there is a definite possibility she is draining every dollar she can from it

[Microcosm]

Karkat,

See the post I made above where I linked a video in response to Vlerchan. Me and him already had this discussion.

[Karkat]

Karkat,

See the post I made above where I linked a video in response to Vlerchan. Me and him already had this discussion.

Ah, sorry, my browser did weird things to the second page- didn't even see the whole conversation there

[Miserabilia]

Meh. I aggree she's brave but so are most people at many points in their lives and they don't get rewarded to such an extent for it; but that's the point of being a celebrity. your lives becomes public life. So I don't think it's a matter of her milking too much out of it, but society doing so; because the "hype" around her transition is caused by a newer generation including many trans people that support a trans celebrity to feel more represented and feel like their struggles are represented in a celebrity.

[phuckphace]

[...]So I don't think it's a matter of her milking too much out of it, but society doing so; because the "hype" around her transition is caused by a newer generation including many trans people that support a trans celebrity to feel more represented and feel like their struggles are represented in a celebrity.

:lol3: :lol3: Mein Transitioning Kampf

millennials are pathetic. just knowing a famous person is using their fame to get more fame really helps me in MY STRUGGLES (with hiding my Adam's Apple)

kill all celebrities and their enablers, the media.

[Judean Zealot]

:lol3: :lol3: Mein Transitioning Kampf

millennials are pathetic. just knowing a famous person is using their fame to get more fame really helps me in MY STRUGGLES (with hiding my Adam's Apple)

kill all celebrities and their enablers, the media.

Hang 'em high. ;)

[phuckphace]

I think these idolatrous idolaters need the Sanhedrin Shakedown

I dunno why I didn't think to include this in my to-do list, celebrity worship is now fully engrained in American culture to its extreme detriment. save a child, shoot a celeb (bonus if you catch them with a nose full of coke or being served a restraining order by their 69th ex-wife)

[Judean Zealot]

I think these idolatrous idolaters need the Sanhedrin Shakedown

It's the adultery and homosexual sex we will get them for.

[Miserabilia]

:lol3: :lol3: Mein Transitioning Kampf

millennials are pathetic. just knowing a famous person is using their fame to get more fame really helps me in MY STRUGGLES (with hiding my Adam's Apple)

kill all celebrities and their enablers, the media.

wellp not saying it's a good thing but that's basicly the mindset behind the majority of people, otherwise we wouldn't care about celebrities in the first place. Celebrity pregant, celebrity break up, celebrity transition, celebrity mental problems, celebrity suicide...
Basicly a celebrity gets ridiculous amounts of money and the possibility to do anything they can with their life (including usualy fucking it up) for the price of having your personal life be entertainment for others.

[Judean Zealot]

[O]therwise we wouldn't care about celebrities in the first place. Celebrity pregant, celebrity break up, celebrity transition, celebrity mental problems, celebrity suicide...

Not all of us, fortunately.