Iran deal reached, Obama hails step towards "more hopeful world"

[Microcosm]

Reuters article: http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/07/14/us-iran-nuclear-idUSKCN0PM0CE20150714

Iran and six major world powers reached a nuclear deal on Tuesday, capping more than a decade of negotiations with an agreement that could transform the Middle East.

[Vlerchan]

This is a good thing BTW.

Europeans have cheap gas in the medium-term - Iranians have more cash to invest into shooting Jihadists.

[Left Now]

This is a good thing BTW.

Europeans have cheap gas in the medium-term - Iranians have more cash to invest into shooting Jihadists.

And it seems Netanyahu and House of Saud would not like this idea very much.

Anyway more cash to make more cash.

I only hope it just does not turn into an Economic Temporary Boost once again,since I personally think "Stable and Long Term Medium Profit according to Potentials of Nation" is always better than "Unstable and Short Term High Profit more than Potentials of Nation" and progress speed of a country must be in balance with its stable abilities and resources.Really do not know how much right this logic is anyway.

[Judean Zealot]

It's a good deal, in my opinion. Netanyahu is just trying to generate panic to keep him in office. The army estimates that we will have at least 5 years peace (unless ISIS ruins the party). I'm hoping for some kind of détente between us and Iran, but I don't really see that as likely.
Vlerchan

Just remember that Hizballah is no picnic either. This deal is not some magical pill that will stabilize the region. As a matter of fact, short to medium term I don't think it accomplishes anything in that respect.

There are too many conflicts still going: Israel against Palestine, ISIS against Egypt, ISIS against Hamas, Assad against the rebels, ISIS against the other rebels, the Iraqi mess, the Kurdish fight for independence, internal tensions in both Lebanon and Jordan, and aggressive expansion of influence by both Saudi Arabia and Iran, all of which are underlied by deep religious divides.

This region won't be peaceful for at least 30 years.

[thatcountrykid]

This is a good thing BTW.

Europeans have cheap gas in the medium-term - Iranians have more cash to invest into shooting Jihadists.

If they use it for that

[Left Now]

Judean Zealot,well I just know that nearly 50 percent of all this mess is caused by people out of Middle East and 49 others by Saudis and their supporters and allies and their supporters' allies.The rest is up to others.

[Judean Zealot]

Judean Zealot,well I just know that nearly 50 percent of all this mess is caused by people out of Middle East and 49 others by Saudis and their supporters and allies and their supporters' allies.The rest is up to others.

Ehh. Hafez Assad in Syria and the Lebanese Shi'ites in the 80s caused much of the discontent in that region.

Iran is far from blameless. So is Israel, and I'm not disputing that, but Iran is responsible for a lot more than 1%. Their bankrolling of several terror groups, for example.

[Left Now]

Ehh. Hafez Assad in Syria and the Lebanese Shi'ites in the 80s caused much of the discontent in that region.

Iran is far from blameless. So is Israel, and I'm not disputing that, but Iran is responsible for a lot more than 1%. Their bankrolling of several terror groups, for example.

First of anything,1 percent in 100 is at least 1000000 in 100000000.I didn't mean other are to blame less.

Second,the only groups that Iran has seriously supported are Hezbollah which is not a Terrorist group but a legitimate resistance and political group of Lebanon,Iraqi Resistance Groups which were not Terrorist groups neither,North Alliance of Afghanistan which if survived,it could become a good ban in the way of massacre of millions of people in Afghanistan and also a good way for stopping tragedies like Twin Towers of WTC in New York,Ansarullah of Yemen who are in a way too extreme but have never done any terrorist act against others,Bashar Assad's Government and of course HAMAS and Palestinian Groups.

Of course about HAMAS and some Palestinian groups,I am all against both themselves and any aid directly to them,and am more toward Financial Supports for any Palestinian Group except them and others like them,and not only me but also many others in Iran are against support for HAMAS too and we believe the matter of Palestine must be seperated from matter of HAMAS and other organistation like it,so HAMAS could be held responsible for its acts.

But what about other groups?They have never been serious causes of chaos in the region,and seriously if we wanted to make a "Blame Rate" for this mess we would just get into this:

US and Russia and Foreign Superpowers>Saudi Arabia and Israel and Turkey and Gulf States>Iran and its supported groups and people directly involved in conflicts.

I am not saying Iran is all clean,but it is at the bottom of this blame line.

Let us not also forget that the adminstrations of Israel have many times claimed that chaos in the Middle East is good for Israel.

[Judean Zealot]

Relax, I'm not even trying to paint Iran as a villain. I'm just trying to dispel this whole 'Iran is the regional saint' narrative.

Just for the record, I have no objection to terrorism as a means of fighting a just war. It is a weapon like any other, albeit only to be used if there are no other options. I hate Hamas for their goals, not their tactics.

But I remember the 2006 war with Hizballah, and it would be blatant distortion to say that they do not employ terror as a tactic.

Let us not also forget that the adminstrations of Israel have many times claimed that chaos in the Middle East is good for Israel.

Fair enough, considering as we were almost wiped out in two wars (1948 and 1967) that were direct outgrowths of Pan-Arabism.

[Left Now]

Relax, I'm not even trying to paint Iran as a villain. I'm just trying to dispel this whole 'Iran is the regional saint' narrative.

Just for the record, I have no objection to terrorism as a means of fighting a just war. It is a weapon like any other, albeit only to be used if there are no other options. I hate Hamas for their goals, not their tactics.

But I remember the 2006 war with Hizballah, and it would be blatant distortion to say that they do not employ terror as a tactic.



Fair enough, considering as we were almost wiped out in two wars (1948 and 1967) that were direct outgrowths of Pan-Arabism.


Of course,but Terrorist Groups are different from Terror Tactics right?I mean,war itself is a Terror Tactic,defending itself is a Terror Tactic.A Terrorist group does not use Terror Tactics,it uses Terrorism.Hezbollah does not use Terrorism.

And about HAMAS,I'm not against their goals which is a Palestinian State,I am against their methodes of using Terror Tactics like suicide bombings extremely against non-military individuals,and base ideologies referring to people of other ideologies as lower beings and also having a twisted version of Islam.

And about those two wars,well occupying a land logically not yours has its own consequences.Also I am also against what Pan-Arabism did against Jews in General that was 100 percents against what they claimed to fight for.

[Judean Zealot]

Hezbollah does not use Terrorism.

What about the random rocket barrages on civilian cities with absolutely no military presence?

Again, on my own terms I don't give a shit if it's 'terrorism' or not, but you should object to such activities.

[Left Now]

What about the random rocket barrages on civilian cities with absolutely no military presence?

Again, on my own terms I don't give a shit if it's 'terrorism' or not, but you should object to such activities.

Extreme Terror Tactic,and I am against it.But let us not forget that it was a response to Israel's heavy bombardment and shelling of many Lebanese urban and civilian areas before.

I remember that once Iran fired a missile to Baghdad after Saddam's heavy bombardments and shellings of cities and villages during Iran-Iraq War too,which exactly hit Iraq's Central Bank.And also Abbas Dowran flew his damaged jet right into al-Rashid Hotel in Baghdad to show that Baghdad is not safe from IRIAF strikes so NAM Conference would not be held there in 1982.

[Judean Zealot]

But let us not forget that it was a response to Israel's bombardment and shelling of more Lebanese urban and civilian areas before.

I'm not saying that we're saints. We're not. But don't pretend that you and your allies are. That's all I'm trying to say here.

[Left Now]

I'm not saying that we're saints. We're not. But don't pretend that you and your allies are. That's all I'm trying to say here.

And I did not say we are did I?I am just saying Iran's government is acting far lesser evil than any other country in this Middle of the East Conflict,and these acts are not for Dominance and Influence or Stealing Resources.

But still it does not mean that I am fine with this Philosophy,I am all against it and I hold Hezbollah responsible for its bad acts as I do for any other governments and groups,specially Iran's government itself.

Anyway this thread was about that Nuclear Deal,and I hope it all goes well after this about that matter,since the most stupid thing to imagine is an Iran possessing or producing a type of WMD.If it was real,then Iran would collapse from inside.

[Judean Zealot]

the most stupid thing to imagine is an Iran possessing or producing a type of WMD.If it was real,then Iran would collapse from inside.
This sounds interesting. Can you expound a bit?

[Vlerchan]

This deal is not some magical pill that will stabilize the region.
I don't think it will stabilize the region - and I didn't claim that. I was just commenting it's a win-win for Iranians and Europeans.

[Left Now]

This sounds interesting. Can you expound a bit?

Well that's simple.Islamic Military Jurisprudence is against any type of Weapons Mass Destruction (Poison and Diseases in those times,WMDs now ) and since the government in Iran claims to be an Islamic Republic,a real one,then if it even gets close to that idea to produce or possess one,then it will lose public's support,and people will destroy the government themselves.

[Sir Suomi]

Islamic Military Jurisprudence is against any type of Weapons Mass Destruction

Guess that didn't stop Pakistan

[Left Now]

Guess that didn't stop Pakistan

Yes,since Pakistan is just a blind follower of Wahhabi School of Saudi Arabia.Iran is a Shia majority country and Producing and Possession and Use of WMDs are illegal in simple Sunni and Shia Jurisprudences.