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View Full Version : America is a Constitutional Republic . . . NOT a Democracy


Zenos
July 3rd, 2015, 01:56 PM
How often have you heard people refer to America as a Democracy? When was the last time that you heard America referred to as a Republic? There is a very good reason that our Pledge of Allegiance refers to our country as a Republic and there is a very good reason that our Declaration of Independence and our constitution do not even mentioned the word "democracy".



Many people are under the false impression our form of government is a democracy, or representative democracy. This is of course completely untrue. The Founders were extremely knowledgeable about the issue of democracy and feared a democracy as much as a monarchy. They understood that the only entity that can take away the people's freedom is their own government, either by being too weak to protect them from external threats or by becoming too powerful and taking over every aspect of life.


They knew very well the meaning of the word "democracy", and the history of democracies; and they were deliberately doing everything in their power to prevent having a democracy.

In a Republic, the sovereignty resides with the people themselves. In a Republic, one may act on his own or through his representatives when he chooses to solve a problem. The people have no obligation to the government; instead, the government is a servant of the people, and obliged to its owner, We the People. Many politicians have lost sight of that fact.

A Constitutional Republic has some similarities to democracy in that it uses democratic processes to elect representatives and pass new laws, etc. The critical difference lies in the fact that a Constitutional Republic has a Constitution that limits the powers of the government. It also spells out how the government is structured, creating checks on its power and balancing power between the different branches.

The goal of a Constitutional Republic was to avoid the dangerous extreme of either tyranny or mobocracy but what exists in America today is a far cry from the Constitutional Republic our forefathers brought forth.

Today we have DO have a mobocracy occurring in our streets all across America. Sadly, such mobocracy or 'mob rule' was endorsed and encouraged by Sen. John McCain who praised the recent wave of pro-illegal immigration demonstrations by saying . . . "if the protesters hang tough they will succeed in forcing Congress to liberalize immigration laws. If such demonstrations continue, I think we will have a bill for the President to sign soon . . . The more debate, the more demonstrations, the more likely we will prevail.' He was of course referring to the Senate's massive illegal-alien amnesty bill S. 2611 which did in fact, pass. Was S. 2611 passed to appease the mob? If so, it is a perfect example of rule by mobocracy!

Article IV Section 4 of the Constitution states: "The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion . . .

Not only is our Constitution being ignored, the exact OPPOSITE is being encourage by John McCain and seconded by ALL those who voted for S. 2611 in the Senate. If you want to preserve the Constitutional Republic you should vote out of office . . . every single senator that voted for S. 2611.

My favorite quote is by Tom Tancredo who speaks to the treasonous position of those who would promote anarchy and mobocracy in our streets. He said: "When I took the oath of office, it wasn't to my party or the President. It was to the Constitution."

However, rule by mobocracy is only a tiny part of what is happening here in America. The larger problem we are facing is related to those who would support and approve of mob rule. It is called tyranny. What is tyranny? Simply put, we are being governed by tyrants who have usurped the will of the people. Our government has become a raging bull elephant, no pun intended, and is totally out of control. We are well on the road to fascism, which was defined by Mussolini as the combining of capitalism and Communism.

There is underway . . . a betrayal of the American people by a government cabal who are bent on destroying our sovereignty in order to create a North American Union. The miscreants include many who function at the highest levels in our government. Many hold membership in the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR) and the Trilateral Commission and pursue a subversive agenda. The cabal is deliberately circumventing the U.S. Congress and 'We the People' in blatant violation of our Constitution. Collectively they are committing TREASON. If you continue to believe that the illegal alien invasion is the biggest threat to America, you will never understand that there is something far more dangerous to our country called the "Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America" (SPP). As bad as the illegal alien situation is . . . you will learn that this nation is in dire peril far exceeding the illegal alien problem.

I urge you to educate yourself. If you have access to a computer you need to read what your own government has posted on their official websites such as the Whitehouse.gov, SPP.gov, State.gov and Canada.USembassy.gov. You will be aghast at the nearly complete destruction of our sovereignty, Bill of Rights, Constitution, laws, Republic, and freedoms they have ALREADY achieved. This heinous ongoing treason has been engineered by an entrenched cabal of legislators, courts, military brass, and government employees in this and prior administrations. The tyranny is being facilitated by hundreds of people embedded at all levels of the executive branch and Congress constituting a so called 'Shadow Government' who are working in concert to dismantle this country in plain sight. Their agenda was engineered by the Council on Foreign Relations(CFR) and kept secret by a deliberately silent media who work in collaboration by treating the America people like mushrooms. We are kept in the dark and fed you know what . . . mislead by their propaganda.

If you don't have a computer, get one. It is the last bastion of freedom to information and knowledge left to' We the People'. Be advised that the congress is working hard to eliminate, curtail and control your access to the internet as we speak.

Why is it Most Americans are Unaware of the CFR Organization . . .

David Rockefeller chairman of the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR) for 15 years (1970-1985), also founded and is the honorary chairman of the Trilateral Commission. His father John D. and brother Nelson purchased and then donated the land beneath the UN for $8.5 million dollars, then claimed it as a charitable deduction.

As for how the machinations of the CFR have remained unnoticed . . . in 1991 in Baden-Baden, Germany, David Rockefeller gloatingly said: "We're grateful to The Washington Post, The New York Times, Time Magazine and other great publications whose directors have attended our meetings and respected their promises of discretion for almost forty years. It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subject to the bright lights of publicity during those years. But the world is now more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world government.." . . . Are you?

CFR member Richard N. Gardner, who in a 1974 article titled: "The Hard Road to World Order" wrote: In short, the "house of world order" will have to be built from the bottom up rather than the top down [and require] . . . an end run around national sovereignty, eroding it piece by piece.


And what does David Rockefeller say about his work?

"For more than a century, ideological extremists at either end of the political spectrum have seized upon well-publicized incidents to attack the Rockefeller family for the inordinate influence they claim we wield over American political and economic institutions. Some even believe we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interest of the United States, characterizing my family and me as 'internationalists ' and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure - one world, if you will. If that's the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it."

What colossal arrogance! Like other globalists, he loses sight of man's humanity and the very fundamental nature of what it is to BE human. Mankind will ALWAYS resist subjugation and will ALWAYS struggle to have and maintain their freedoms . . . after all . . . for us Americans . . . it is the very essence of what it is to BE an American.



The Council on Foreign Relations has placed its membership in policy-making positions with the State Department and other federal agencies. Every Secretary of State since 1944, with the exception of James F. Byrnes, has been a member of the [CFR] council." The trend continues today as both Condalezza Rice and Colin Powell are members of the CFR.

Some Others Who have Spoken Out About the 'Shadow Government':

"Rear Admiral Chester Ward, USN (Retd.), who was a member of the CFR for sixteen years. He wrote, 'The most powerful clique in these elitist groups have one objective in common--They want to bring about the surrender of the sovereignty and the national independence of the United States."

"Felix Frankfurter, Justice of the Supreme Court (1939-1962) said: The real rulers in Washington are invisible and exercise power from behind the scenes."

In a speech given on February 23, 1954, Senator William Jenner warned America: "Outwardly we have a Constitutional government. We have operating within our government and political system, another body representing another form of government, a bureaucratic elite which believes our Constitution is outmoded."

In fact, the Constitution is far more than 'outmoded,' according to President Bush who rebuffed GOP leader's request to soft pedal some parts of the 'Patriot Act' by saying: "I don't give a goddamn . . . I'm the President and the Commander-in-Chief. Do it my way." Then, responding to an aid who stated: "There is a valid case that the provisions in this law undermine the Constitution." Bush screamed back: "Stop throwing the constitution in my face . . . It's just a goddamned piece of paper!"

As for the 'bureaucratic elite' of wealthy globalists who function as the 'Shadow Government' . . . their ultimate goal is a so called NEW World Order, which is course is NOT NEW but is, in reality, a ONE World Order. To that end, Franklin Delano Roosevelt managed to condemn their monopolist lust from the grave in a message found enshrined on his memorial in Washington, DC:


If you think about it, by sending our manufacturing base to Mexico or other foreign countries, the globalists have FORCED America to become global when in the past we were self-sufficient and produced all we needed for ourselves and exported our excess around the world. Now we are dependent on countries like Communist China, etc., to supply stores like Wal-mart with nearly all of its merchandise.




The 'Shadow Government has begun their 'race to the finish' and have become ever more arrogant and bold. They have concluded that they are so close to complete conquest that they are ever more blatantly flouting our Constitution and laws than you can ever imagine in your wildest of dreams of hell on earth.



Didn't you ever wonder why our borders are still wide open?

Didn't you ever wonder why our immigration laws are unenforced?

Didn't you ever wonder why CAFTA was passed in the House by two recanted votes after the time for voting had expired? Especially in light of the fact that most ordinary people would agree that NAFTA has been such a devastating failure for both Mexico and America.



Didn't you ever wonder why the Senate told 83% of 'We the People' to 'go to hell' when they passed the amnesty bill S. 2611 which will add 100 million people to America in the next ten years according to Dr. Robert Rector of the Heritage Institute. That number is a CONSERVATIVE estimate since statisticians extrapolated those numbers from the 2000 census to arrive at the totally bogus figures of 10-12 million illegals.



Didn't you ever wonder why the reconquista rabble can march in our streets and shout from the roof tops that they want to take over the Southwest and our government doesn't investigate them for sedition like they did the VA nurse who wrote a letter to the editor complaining about the Iraq War, and the government's handling of Hurricane Katrina.

What is sedition? It is "The Stirring up of discontent, resistance, or rebellion against the government in power."

In "1968---The Hispanic organization, the Southwest Council of LaRaza Unida, was created with a $630,000 grant from the Ford Foundation, which supports the movement to bring massive numbers of Mexicans into the U.S. From 1968 to 1992, Ford Foundation grants to radical Hispanics totaled over $31 million. And according to Henry Santiestevan (former head of the Southwest Council of LaRaza), It would hardly be an exaggeration to say that the Ford Foundation IS the Chicano movement."

Along with the non-profit foundations that are funding the racist mobocracy, there has been a concerted effort by our own government to aid and abet the massive illegal alien anarchy you see in our streets.



In a speech made before the U.S. Senate on December 15, 1987 Senator Jesse Helms, spoke eloquently about the coming One World Order when he said:



"This campaign against the American people - against traditional American culture and values - is systematic psychological warfare. It is orchestrated by a vast array of interests comprising not only the Eastern establishment but also the radical left. Among this group we find the Department of State, the Department of Commerce, the money center banks and multinational corporations, the media, the educational establishment, the entertainment industry, and the large tax-exempt foundations.



A careful examination of what is happening behind the scenes reveals that all of these interests are working in concert with the masters of the Kremlin in order to create what some refer to as a New World Order. Private organizations such as the Council on Foreign Relations, . . . the Trilateral Commission, .. . . Bilderberger Group serve to disseminate and to coordinate the plans for this so-called New World Order in powerful business, financial, academic, and official circles . . .



The influence of establishment insiders over our foreign policy has become a fact of life in our time. This pervasive influence runs contrary to the real long-term national security of our Nation. It is an influence which, if unchecked, could ultimately subvert our constitutional order.



In the globalist point of view, nation-states and national boundaries do not count for anything. Political philosophies and political principles seem to become simply relative. Indeed, even constitutions are irrelevant to the exercise of power. Liberty and tyranny are viewed as neither necessarily good nor evil, and certainly not a component of policy.



In their point of view, the activities of international financial and industrial forces should be oriented to bringing this one-world design - with a convergence of the Soviet and American systems as its centerpiece - into being . . . All that matters to this club is the maximization of profits resulting from the practice of what can be described as finance capitalism, a system which rests upon the twin pillars of debt and monopoly. This isn't real capitalism. It is the road to economic concentration and to political slavery.




Why ARE Our Borders STILL Wide Open, Our Laws Unenforced and Massive Amnesty Proffered . . .

Why does our government tyrannically trample on the rights of American citizens with impunity while it permits, and tacitly condones the racist, reconquista rabble in our streets and on our campuses by allowing them to flood across our borders and remain here unmolested? Could it be they WANT them here to foment their anti-Americanism, hostility, balkanization, racism, and sedition, while they flout their anarchy?

Is there something more to the story than illegal aliens rampaging in our streets calling for 'rights' which they have NO RIGHT to get? Mobs of lawbreakers who profess their allegiance to Mexico and other Latin American countries, defiling our flag, re-writing our National Anthem, shouting racist slogans on behalf of 'La Raza' -- The Race!

Can the deliberate non-action of our government to stop the massive 20-30 million illegal alien invasion of our country actually be part of a some hidden agenda?



In Order To Answer ALL of Those Disturbing Questions . . .



You need to understand that the illegal alien invasion is simply a diversion to keep our focus off the imminent implementation of the North American Union (NAU), the next step towards a One World Order (OWO). The illegal alien invasion is a tool being used to segue America into the North American Union. Just think about the DEFIANT Senate amnesty bill S. 2611 which insanely includes all manner of benefits, rights, privileges, 'a path to citizenship,' major increases in job stealing high tech visas AND a tripling of quotas for LEGAL immigration which is already over a million per year and does not include those seeking asylum.



Why did the Senate do such an insane thing in TOTAL and COMPLETE opposition to 'We the People' and in such abject disregard for the horrendous consequences it will foist upon our nation's future? It is, without doubt . . . "an 'open borders manifesto,' a nation killer."




The answer is as plain as the nose on your face. Many in the Senate AND the House AND the Executive are working in concert to create a North American Union. They are capitalists whose agenda is Communism which makes them classic fascists. They embrace the concept of a plutocracy, a world run by a wealthy few. Their goal is to achieve the few remaining unfulfilled tenets of the Communist Manifesto in order to put an end to America.




How Dishonest and Corrupt IS our Congress?



Did you know that, in 1999 and 2000, presidential candidate and then president-elect Vicente Fox had a foreign relations aide who met with "almost 80 U.S. congressmen and senators during numerous trips and at several events." The aide, Fredo Arias-king, attests that: "With just over 50 of them, my colleagues and I spoke about immigration in some depth, as it is one of the important bilateral topics [for Mexico]."



They found that: "American politicians are overwhelmingly pro-immigration, for a variety of reasons, and they do not always admit this to their constituents. Of those 50 legislators, 45 were unambiguously pro-immigration, even asking us at times to 'send more.' This was true of both Democrats and Republicans."(51)


His conclusions: " . . . mass immigration from Latin America is being used by the political class to undermine their democracy and as a tool to liberate the political elites from the Jeffersonian and Madisonian constraints.



The illegal alien problem is simply the MECHANISM for leveraging what is yet to come. Once the civil unrest and chaos caused by the overwhelming 'human tsunami' of illegal aliens reduces America to complete anarchy, a state of total lawlessness and riots or the bird flu pandemic arrives, or another 'Katrina' occurs, or a 'dirty bomb' is unleashed . . . the federal government will institute martial law. One of those events or some other inventive pretext will then allow the 'Shadow Government' to step forward and VISIBLY take over our country. They will use martial law to install a fascist One World Order dictatorial government in plain sight instead of clandestinely as they do now.



If you take the time to educate yourself . . . you will be stunned beyond belief at the nearly complete destruction of our sovereignty, Constitution, Bill of Rights and our Republic that has been accomplished thus far by the fascist cabal who deviously 'hides in plain sight.' All has been completed without ANY proper oversight by our Congress nor the knowledge or sanction by 'We the People.' How are they doing it?





The tri-lateral cabal consisting of President Fox, Prime Minister Martin, and President Bush have used NAFTA as a Trojan horse to create the Security and Prosperity Partnership (SPP) which was officially announced on March 23, 2005, in Waco, Texas. The plan was little noticed when it was formally announced. Sadly it is . . . 'a day that will live in infamy!'



NAFTA, a supposed 'trade agreement' that has already cost millions of American jobs and closed many of our manufacturing plants has been deviously used to create the SPP. It was an ignominious day for America and all she stands for when the heads of state from three sovereign countries (Mexico, Canada and America) could simply mutually agree to deviously pervert the NAFTA agreement and create the Security and Properity Partnership, the SPP for short.





Having made their official announcement, President Bush believed he was then entitled to order the executive branch of our government to do his bidding to create the NAU under cover of the SPP without any oversight by Congress or informing the American public.



By presidential fiat, Bush has created "an end run around America's sovereignty, eroding it piece by piece" or rather 'department by department' just as announced by CFR member Richard Gardner in his 1974 Foreign Affairs article.






Bush has created, engaged and promoted thePresident George W. Bush, center, attends the Security and Prosperity Partnership meeting with Mexico's President Vicente Fox, right, and Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper, left, Friday, March 31, 2006 at the Fiesta Americana Condesa Cancun Hotel in Cancun, Mexico. White House photo by Eric Draper North American Competitiveness Council. What is their mission and goal? "INCREASING PRIVATE SECTOR ENGAGEMENT in the SPP by adding high-level BUSINESS INPUT will ASSIST GOVERNMENTS in enhancing North America's competitive position and ENGAGE THE PRIVATE SECTOR AS PARTNERS IN FINDING SOLUTIONS.




Wealthy corporate globalists, such as the Rockefellers, are working in concert with many in positions of power in our courts, military, and government who are members of the CFR, the Trilateral Commission, and attend the Bilderberg conferences. Their overarching desire is to create world political dominion controlled by corporate monopolies. Their goals are rooted in the ideologies of socialism, Communism, and Marxism. Collectively, they working diligently and secretly to create a FASCIST One World Order.





The gloabalist seek to increasingly transform our system of governance so that "we are moving from the system of representative government set forth in the U.S. Constitution to a system of collaborative policymaking by professional bureaucrats and business leaders.



For YEARS the CFR has been calling for the erasure of our borders. Dr. Pastor, a CFR task force Vice-Chair, has been trumpeting the concept, just about everywhere it mattered, working hard to achieve the CFR's stated goals. All the while 'We the People' were 'left out of the loop' until Lou Dobbs exposed the CFR's plans to eliminate our borders by 2010.



That would explain the administration's DELIBERATE unenforcement of our immigration laws and DHS' insane policies such as 'catch and release' and others that were used to keep the borders open. Such actions or rather non-actions and inexplicable policies were purposefully employed to create a de facto elimination of our borders . . . a major prerequisite for the North American Union.










The CFR and hundreds its of members have infiltrated our government at all levels . . . the legislative, the executive, the courts, and the military. They are the driving force and facilitators behind the CFR's publicly stated position that says the following: "An annual summit of North American leaders would do more to carry out our [CFR's] overall goal of creating a North American Community than virtually any of the report’s other recommendations. As we have seen with the annual Group of Seven/Eight (G-7/8) and Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation (APEC) summits, regular meetings of leaders not only help promote a sense of community and shared objectives, but channel the various bureaucracies each year to work on those common objectives."






"Whether on matters of security, education, or economic integration and development, annual summits will drive a process that will hasten the goals that we outline in our report. More to the point, an annual summit can be announced and implemented right away, giving tangible impetus to the good beginning made at the March 2005 summit and to the goals we promote here." Get the picture?



The CFR had reason to rejoice because: "At their meeting in Waco, Texas, at the end of March 2005, U.S. President George W. Bush, Mexican President Vicente Fox, and Canadian Prime Minister Paul Martin committed their governments to a path of cooperation and joint action. We welcome this important development and offer this report to add urgency and specific recommendations to strengthen their efforts."



Although there are those who would deny there is ANY connection between the CFR and the creation of the Security and Prosperity Partnership as a vehicle for creating the North American Union, they are simply in severe denial, dupes or part of the cabal that is working to cover up the truth.



YOU . . . The Individual American Must Stand Up and Be Counted . . .




America is the only country in the world that can thwart the global fascists' drive to conquer mankind and achieve their plutocratic goal of world dominion by a select few.

http://www.stopthenorthamericanunion.com/NotDemocracy.html

Judean Zealot
July 4th, 2015, 02:48 AM
This article is painful to read, and that's besides all of the grammatical and syntactic sloppiness.

In a Republic, the sovereignty resides with the people themselves. In a Republic, one may act on his own or through his representatives when he chooses to solve a problem. The people have no obligation to the government; instead, the government is a servant of the people, and obliged to its owner, We the People. Many politicians have lost sight of that fact.
Err... what? Like the Roman Republic?

Republic and democracy have an identical etymology. Republic derives from the Latin 'res publica' (rule of the people), while Democracy is derived from the Greek δημοκρατία (demokratia), also the conjunctive form of δήμιος (démos), which means of/to the people, and κράτος (krátos), which means power.

The reason why the founding fathers chose the word 'Republic' instead of 'Democracy' is due to their respective academic connotations.

Democracy was known primarily as the form of government which Plato decries in The Republic as the worst possible government, as the lower classes get to make decisions and elect leaders based on whatever foolish whim enters their heads. The notion of individual freedom from the State was precisely what Plato rejected when he criticised democracy.

The Republic, however, was a more acceptable government, which conjured up images of mighty Rome. The redeeming factor of the Republic was the fact that the 'people' who were supposed to rule were only the aristocracy, the landowners. The State had a much larger role than in Plato's democracy. The common man had no part in the government. Indeed, when Caesar ended the civil wars between the optimates and the populares, the government shifted over into autocracy, as your idea of a Republic was anathema even to the Roman Republicans who were for increasing the power of the people, and was known by the alternative name of 'anarchy' (Fun fact: the other form of government which draws it's name from the Roman Republic is 'Fascism', which derives it's name from the fasces that represented the absolute power of the Republic over it's citizens).

Considering as at the time the Constitution was drafted, in most states only white, male landowners had the suffrage, and even that was only to elect to Congress or an independent elector, the comparison between them and Romans seems quite apt.

They are capitalists whose agenda is Communism which makes them classic fascists.
Lol. Are you sure you know the meanings of these terms you bandy about (or copy paste)?

DriveAlive
July 4th, 2015, 06:50 AM
This was all good and informative until ilt got crazy. Then it got crazy really fast.

Uniquemind
July 4th, 2015, 01:01 PM
This was all good and informative until ilt got crazy. Then it got crazy really fast.

Can't tell if this is a troll thread or not.

Can you?

But giving it the benefit of the doubt does any of the specific information (dates, claims made in certain speeches which the OP gave date stamps for, quotes from people)

Do those check out?

Or do they fail?



One immediate fail is that we're past 2010, and our borders are not dissolved.

Judean Zealot
July 4th, 2015, 03:29 PM
I have a perverse urge to dissect this drivel sentence by sentence.

Stronk Serb
July 6th, 2015, 02:13 AM
This article is painful to read, and that's besides all of the grammatical and syntactic sloppiness.


Err... what? Like the Roman Republic?

Republic and democracy have an identical etymology. Republic derives from the Latin 'res publica' (rule of the people), while Democracy is derived from the Greek δημοκρατία (demokratia), also the conjunctive form of δήμιος (démos), which means of/to the people, and κράτος (krátos), which means power.

The reason why the founding fathers chose the word 'Republic' instead of 'Democracy' is due to their respective academic connotations.

Democracy was known primarily as the form of government which Plato decries in The Republic as the worst possible government, as the lower classes get to make decisions and elect leaders based on whatever foolish whim enters their heads. The notion of individual freedom from the State was precisely what Plato rejected when he criticised democracy.

The Republic, however, was a more acceptable government, which conjured up images of mighty Rome. The redeeming factor of the Republic was the fact that the 'people' who were supposed to rule were only the aristocracy, the landowners. The State had a much larger role than in Plato's democracy. The common man had no part in the government. Indeed, when Caesar ended the civil wars between the optimates and the populares, the government shifted over into autocracy, as your idea of a Republic was anathema even to the Roman Republicans who were for increasing the power of the people, and was known by the alternative name of 'anarchy' (Fun fact: the other form of government which draws it's name from the Roman Republic is 'Fascism', which derives it's name from the fasces that represented the absolute power of the Republic over it's citizens).

Considering as at the time the Constitution was drafted, in most states only white, male landowners had the suffrage, and even that was only to elect to Congress or an independent elector, the comparison between them and Romans seems quite apt.


Lol. Are you sure you know the meanings of these terms you bandy about (or copy paste)?


Small correction: res publica literally means "public thing". It was sort of a representative democracy in Roman times, when the plebs got the right to vote. Also, Athens, a democracy had elections for executive branches but a lot of stuff was decided via what today would be called referendum.

Judean Zealot
July 6th, 2015, 05:37 AM
Small correction: res publica literally means "public thing".
Correct, but I'm trying to bring out a point. The 'thing', of course, is the magisterial apparatus, thus essentially meaning the same thing as the Greek democracy.

It was sort of a representative democracy in Roman times, when the plebs got the right to vote. I was not referring to the plebs, as they (nominally, at least) got the suffrage relatively early (albeit after several mutinies). I am talking about the Proletarii, who did not have the right to vote.
Also, Athens, a democracy had elections for executive branches but a lot of stuff was decided via what today would be called referendum.
Again, I'm just pointing out the less ordered and more anarchistic nature of the Athenian democracy.

Jean Poutine
July 8th, 2015, 03:36 PM
I'm actually gonna do a bit.

How often have you heard people refer to America as a Democracy? When was the last time that you heard America referred to as a Republic? There is a very good reason that our Pledge of Allegiance refers to our country as a Republic and there is a very good reason that our Declaration of Independence and our constitution do not even mentioned the word "democracy".

Many people are under the false impression our form of government is a democracy, or representative democracy. This is of course completely untrue. The Founders were extremely knowledgeable about the issue of democracy and feared a democracy as much as a monarchy. They understood that the only entity that can take away the people's freedom is their own government, either by being too weak to protect them from external threats or by becoming too powerful and taking over every aspect of life.

They knew very well the meaning of the word "democracy", and the history of democracies; and they were deliberately doing everything in their power to prevent having a democracy.

In a Republic, the sovereignty resides with the people themselves. In a Republic, one may act on his own or through his representatives when he chooses to solve a problem. The people have no obligation to the government; instead, the government is a servant of the people, and obliged to its owner, We the People. Many politicians have lost sight of that fact.

A Constitutional Republic has some similarities to democracy in that it uses democratic processes to elect representatives and pass new laws, etc. The critical difference lies in the fact that a Constitutional Republic has a Constitution that limits the powers of the government. It also spells out how the government is structured, creating checks on its power and balancing power between the different branches.

False dichotomy. There is no fundamental difference between a republic and a democracy. Especially the one reason you give - that only "republics" have "Constitutions" is blatantly false.

What IS a constitution? It's simply a set of rules, written or unwritten, that distribute State powers among entities. In other words, every single country under the sun, democracies and dictatorships, have constitutions, and since power is, in most cases, finite, they all "limit" the power of government by the very act of its distribution to the other two branches. The UK is an example of a country said to be "without a constitution" but this is false. It is simply unwritten.

There is underway . . . a betrayal of the American people by a government cabal who are bent on destroying our sovereignty in order to create a North American Union. The miscreants include many who function at the highest levels in our government. Many hold membership in the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR) and the Trilateral Commission and pursue a subversive agenda. The cabal is deliberately circumventing the U.S. Congress and 'We the People' in blatant violation of our Constitution. Collectively they are committing TREASON. If you continue to believe that the illegal alien invasion is the biggest threat to America, you will never understand that there is something far more dangerous to our country called the "Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America" (SPP). As bad as the illegal alien situation is . . . you will learn that this nation is in dire peril far exceeding the illegal alien problem.

I urge you to educate yourself. If you have access to a computer you need to read what your own government has posted on their official websites such as the Whitehouse.gov, SPP.gov, State.gov and Canada.USembassy.gov. You will be aghast at the nearly complete destruction of our sovereignty, Bill of Rights, Constitution, laws, Republic, and freedoms they have ALREADY achieved. This heinous ongoing treason has been engineered by an entrenched cabal of legislators, courts, military brass, and government employees in this and prior administrations. The tyranny is being facilitated by hundreds of people embedded at all levels of the executive branch and Congress constituting a so called 'Shadow Government' who are working in concert to dismantle this country in plain sight. Their agenda was engineered by the Council on Foreign Relations(CFR) and kept secret by a deliberately silent media who work in collaboration by treating the America people like mushrooms. We are kept in the dark and fed you know what . . . mislead by their propaganda.

This is disinfo. The real issue does not lie there.

Also, 5/5 for the treason meme. You do realize the US Constitution intended treason to be a crime that could be perpetrated only during war? Bills in 1798 and 1917, the Sedition and Espionage Acts, greatly expanded on the crime of "treason" to include other activities than waging war and helping those who wage war. This is one of the biggest power grabs made by the government against its people. This is the reason why whistleblowers (who are the only reason we know as much as we do) are being prosecuted as traitors.

Why is it Most Americans are Unaware of the CFR Organization . . .

David Rockefeller chairman of the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR) for 15 years (1970-1985), also founded and is the honorary chairman of the Trilateral Commission. His father John D. and brother Nelson purchased and then donated the land beneath the UN for $8.5 million dollars, then claimed it as a charitable deduction.

As for how the machinations of the CFR have remained unnoticed . . . in 1991 in Baden-Baden, Germany, David Rockefeller gloatingly said: "We're grateful to The Washington Post, The New York Times, Time Magazine and other great publications whose directors have attended our meetings and respected their promises of discretion for almost forty years. It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subject to the bright lights of publicity during those years. But the world is now more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world government.." . . . Are you?

CFR member Richard N. Gardner, who in a 1974 article titled: "The Hard Road to World Order" wrote: In short, the "house of world order" will have to be built from the bottom up rather than the top down [and require] . . . an end run around national sovereignty, eroding it piece by piece.

And what does David Rockefeller say about his work?

"For more than a century, ideological extremists at either end of the political spectrum have seized upon well-publicized incidents to attack the Rockefeller family for the inordinate influence they claim we wield over American political and economic institutions. Some even believe we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interest of the United States, characterizing my family and me as 'internationalists ' and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure - one world, if you will. If that's the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it."

I'm just gonna say that these quotes are 100% true. The last one is found in Rockefeller's memoirs. Of course, they are disinfo again - Rockefeller simply did not do this for the people, but to line his own pockets. I'll explain later.

"Rear Admiral Chester Ward, USN (Retd.), who was a member of the CFR for sixteen years. He wrote, 'The most powerful clique in these elitist groups have one objective in common--They want to bring about the surrender of the sovereignty and the national independence of the United States."

"Felix Frankfurter, Justice of the Supreme Court (1939-1962) said: The real rulers in Washington are invisible and exercise power from behind the scenes."

In a speech given on February 23, 1954, Senator William Jenner warned America: "Outwardly we have a Constitutional government. We have operating within our government and political system, another body representing another form of government, a bureaucratic elite which believes our Constitution is outmoded."

Those quotes are also true. I'm surprised Smedley Butler's testimony on the fascist coup d'état attempt in 1933 wasn't included (the "Business Plot" - google this and check out who the backers were).

Yep, America came two fingers away from a fascist dictatorship. Butler was actually supposed to lead it, but he had a conscience and went to spill the beans before Congress. We even know who were the backers (they are the people you expect - those who did business with the Nazis). None were prosecuted.

As for the 'bureaucratic elite' of wealthy globalists who function as the 'Shadow Government' . . . their ultimate goal is a so called NEW World Order, which is course is NOT NEW but is, in reality, a ONE World Order. To that end, Franklin Delano Roosevelt managed to condemn their monopolist lust from the grave in a message found enshrined on his memorial in Washington, DC:

Disinfo again. I don't doubt the so-called NWO will be something to expect one day, but this is a means to an end. The ultimate goal is much, much simpler, and once you understand that, everything becomes clearer : it is to make obscene amounts of money.

If you think about it, by sending our manufacturing base to Mexico or other foreign countries, the globalists have FORCED America to become global when in the past we were self-sufficient and produced all we needed for ourselves and exported our excess around the world. Now we are dependent on countries like Communist China, etc., to supply stores like Wal-mart with nearly all of its merchandise.

Of course, everybody knows this is true. The loss of manufacturing jobs was a huge blow to Western economies. They were stable, high-paying jobs, with a variety of positions, from unskilled to college educated, with a tradition of effective union organizing. Factory jobs in that time had social benefits we can only dream of today, such as private pensions paid by the corporation.

Didn't you ever wonder why CAFTA was passed in the House by two recanted votes after the time for voting had expired? Especially in light of the fact that most ordinary people would agree that NAFTA has been such a devastating failure for both Mexico and America.

NAFTA was a devastating failure for everyone involved except the corporations. This is true of every "free trade" bill under the sun.

The worse is yet to come - check out the TPP, which is being negotiated in secret with Canada, the US, Australia, and such luminaries as Vietnam. Our elected representatives are kept in the dark while upstanding corporate citizens like Halliburton, Chevron or PHRMA and not only made privy to every detail, but consulted. In fact, the text will be sealed from public overview for 4 years after its ratification. It will allow corporations to sue countries for loss of profit resulting from public policies in supra-governmental, secret tribunals. This means goodbye to much of our Western labour standards, environmental regulations and consumer rights. Copyright terms will be expanded, fair use will be restricted, file sharing and torrenting will land you in jail and your ISP will be forced to report suspicious activity to the government.

How do we know about this? These treasonous fucking cunts over at Wikileaks.

If this doesn't open your eyes and show you that there is something very wrong with our countries then I don't know what will. The TPP is all the things people have been ridiculed for proposing might happen, and more.

There is a huge part about immigration and I don't wish to get in it, because my knowledge of American issues on this subject is limited. But suffice to say that personally I am for a vastly reduced immigration quota.

What is sedition? It is "The Stirring up of discontent, resistance, or rebellion against the government in power."

Also known as freedom of expression.

In their point of view, the activities of international financial and industrial forces should be oriented to bringing this one-world design - with a convergence of the Soviet and American systems as its centerpiece - into being . . . All that matters to this club is the maximization of profits resulting from the practice of what can be described as finance capitalism, a system which rests upon the twin pillars of debt and monopoly. This isn't real capitalism. It is the road to economic concentration and to political slavery.

Finally! Bravo.

The answer is as plain as the nose on your face. Many in the Senate AND the House AND the Executive are working in concert to create a North American Union. They are capitalists whose agenda is Communism which makes them classic fascists. They embrace the concept of a plutocracy, a world run by a wealthy few. Their goal is to achieve the few remaining unfulfilled tenets of the Communist Manifesto in order to put an end to America.

Why would a bunch of rich people and bankers want to install a world communism system where there is no government and no money?

This is Cold War disinfo at its best. The Cold War happened for two reasons : to make insane loads of dosh via the arms race and to vilify communism. This is why Americans today have an almost instinctive fear of the word while they don't even know what it actually is.

What the bankers are doing is actually just capitalism. Crony, monopoly capitalism, but capitalism nonetheless.

More blah blah about NAFTA...

Wealthy corporate globalists, such as the Rockefellers, are working in concert with many in positions of power in our courts, military, and government who are members of the CFR, the Trilateral Commission, and attend the Bilderberg conferences. Their overarching desire is to create world political dominion controlled by corporate monopolies. Their goals are rooted in the ideologies of socialism, Communism, and Marxism. Collectively, they working diligently and secretly to create a FASCIST One World Order.

More disinfo. One true sentence (the first) - the rest is idiotic. Marxism and communism are largely the same thing (there are a lot of doctrinal offshoots, but Marxism is the first "communism"). Fascism is a very strong government focused on military matters and nationalism. How can one be a fascist AND a communism at the same time?

The gloabalist seek to increasingly transform our system of governance so that "we are moving from the system of representative government set forth in the U.S. Constitution to a system of collaborative policymaking by professional bureaucrats and business leaders.

Not wrong.

For YEARS the CFR has been calling for the erasure of our borders. Dr. Pastor, a CFR task force Vice-Chair, has been trumpeting the concept, just about everywhere it mattered, working hard to achieve the CFR's stated goals. All the while 'We the People' were 'left out of the loop' until Lou Dobbs exposed the CFR's plans to eliminate our borders by 2010.

Protip : anyone who specifies a future date for some kind of happening in conspiracy theories is a disinfo shill, for the one and very good reason that each time some asshole makes a prediction that doesn't come to pass, the public loses interest in what we have to say in a big way. We look exactly like what they think we are : nutters.

America is the only country in the world that can thwart the global fascists' drive to conquer mankind and achieve their plutocratic goal of world dominion by a select few.

Um no, there are many who can. Most, in fact.

A lot of this was disinfo at worst or misguided at best. A few kernels of truth, a lot of bullshit.

Instead of explaining what's really happening in detail, as it would be far too long, I'm just going to leave a link to a very good documentary. It's 3 hours long and kinda old but it is riveting and absolutely worth it. I watch it once a year. It is a look at the "hidden history" of central banking in the US. It's very well researched and it tends to explain what's happening using historical quotes. If you have the slightest interest in these kind of issues, you will come away angry.

There are some things which might seem ridiculous to you at first glance (ie. the Rothschild meme) because that's what you've been taught to believe, but just watch, then research what the doc had to say. You'll see that much of it is the truth. It's important to always double-check everything. Never trust anybody to do your own research for you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDtBSiI13fE

How many of you even knew that the Federal Reserve was a private corporation, for example? This is public information, but somehow, most people don't know. Hiding in plain sight is what financiers do, so with actual research, it is possible to learn a lot.

It goes without saying that our debt-based money, issued by the Federal Reserve/Bank of Canada/whatever, a private corporation with shareholders, is the true issue here (extrapolated worldwide with the World Bank). We have all been made debt slaves and watch as politicians hammer on that we must "pay the debt" using money that is created out of thin air and charged at interest to the government by a private corporation who can create recessions at will. How can we "pay the debt" when every bill we print comes with a surcharge?

Zenos
July 18th, 2015, 10:25 AM
The chief characteristic and distinguishing feature of a Democracy is: Rule by Omnipotent Majority. In a Democracy, The Individual, and any group of Individuals composing any Minority, have no protection against the unlimited power of The Majority. It is a case of Majority-over-Man.

This is true whether it be a Direct Democracy, or a Representative Democracy. In the direct type, applicable only to a small number of people as in the little city-states of ancient Greece, or in a New England town-meeting, all of the electorate assemble to debate and decide all government questions, and all decisions are reached by a majority vote (of at least half-plus-one). Decisions of The Majority in a New England town-meeting are, of course, subject to the Constitutions of the State and of the United States which protect The Individual’s rights; so, in this case, The Majority is not omnipotent and such a town-meeting is, therefore, not an example of a true Direct Democracy. Under a Representative Democracy like Britain’s parliamentary form of government, the people elect representatives to the national legislature--the elective body there being the House of Commons--and it functions by a similar vote of at least half-plus-one in making all legislative decisions.

In both the Direct type and the Representative type of Democracy, The Majority’s power is absolute and unlimited; its decisions are unappealable under the legal system established to give effect to this form of government.


A Republic, on the other hand, has a very different purpose and an entirely different form, or system, of government. Its purpose is to control The Majority strictly, as well as all others among the people, primarily to protect The Individual’s God-given, unalienable rights and therefore for the protection of the rights of The Minority, of all minorities, and the liberties of people in general. The definition of a Republic is: a constitutionally limited government of the representative type, created by a written Constitution--adopted by the people and changeable (from its original meaning) by them only by its amendment--with its powers divided between three separate Branches: Executive, Legislative and Judicial. Here the term "the people" means, of course, the electorate.

Judean Zealot
July 18th, 2015, 02:07 PM
A Republic, on the other hand, has a very different purpose and an entirely different form, or system, of government. Its purpose is to control The Majority strictly, as well as all others among the people, primarily to protect The Individual’s God-given, unalienable rights and therefore for the protection of the rights of The Minority, of all minorities, and the liberties of people in general. The definition of a Republic is: a constitutionally limited government of the representative type, created by a written Constitution--adopted by the people and changeable (from its original meaning) by them only by its amendment--with its powers divided between three separate Branches: Executive, Legislative and Judicial. Here the term "the people" means, of course, the electorate.

Of course, you continue to ignore the Roman Republic.

dxcxdzv
July 19th, 2015, 08:02 AM
...
A republic can be a democracy.
A democracy only means nothing, it doesn't structure a nation.

And don't talk about fascism like that. You strictly know nothing about it.

Zenos
July 29th, 2015, 10:41 AM
...
A republic can be a democracy.
A democracy only means nothing, it doesn't structure a nation.

And don't talk about fascism like that. You strictly know nothing about it.

How would you know what I know about facism? You don't so don't tell me what i know or don't know!

dxcxdzv
July 29th, 2015, 01:57 PM
How would you know what I know about facism? You don't so don't tell me what i know or don't know!
I see it from what you are characterizing as "fascist" and the facility you have to use a such heavy word.
And also by the way you are answering right now.

Zenos
August 3rd, 2015, 04:06 PM
I see it from what you are characterizing as "fascist" and the facility you have to use a such heavy word.
And also by the way you are answering right now.


No you think you are seeing and assume you are seeing because that is what you want to see!

dxcxdzv
August 3rd, 2015, 04:07 PM
No you think you are seeing and assume you are seeing because that is what you want to see!
It's pretty easy to say a such thing, don't you think?

Zenos
August 5th, 2015, 10:21 AM
It's pretty easy to say a such thing, don't you think?

Only when you see what you want to see in a person's words!

dxcxdzv
August 5th, 2015, 01:54 PM
Only when you see what you want to see in a person's words!
And don't you feel yourself like you just see in my words what you want to see?