Opinion on Gay pride?

[Stronk Serb]

What's your opinion on gay pride? I think it's a good idea, but awfuly commercialised, at least in the western world. I think it should be a protest against the government to treat all equally, not an LGBTl public striptease festival.

[Microcosm]

Being gay isn't really something to be "proud" of. It isn't a bad thing, but it's not better than being straight. So, as to the idea of gay pride I'd say meh...

But, as to the gay pride movements and such, I would agree with the OP.

[Hideous]

I think it should be a protest against the government to treat all equally

I agree.

-

LGBT are subjected to brutal oppression in capitalist society. Oppression, discrimination, and legal harassment continue to exist on a massive scale. So much so that millions feel obliged to conceal their sexuality or to repress it. Against all who voluntarily or involuntarily reveal their sexuality, repression is unleashed.

I think gay pride itself is acceptable, where people can be free from hate, express and love themselves for who they are, especially when we're looked down upon.

I wish LGBT people would educate themselves on the history of gay pride and why it exists today (which takes us back to the 1950s and 1960s when the LGBT community faced an anti-homosexual legal system, forwarding to the Stonewall riots), rather than ignoring it completely and using it as a way to shove it down people's throats that screams "I'm gay, I'm better than you". I don't see how that would solve any problems. I wouldn't say every LGBT pride's like a striptease festival, but if that's how some of them like to run it, then so be it. Not only LGBT people, but anyone of any background can feel happy and have the best time of their life by accepting one another.

All members of the LGBT community should feel like an actual human being, and not get beat up because of who they are. Pride makes us feel safe.

[Abhorrence]

Gay Pride is today in my city, I'm not going, I don't feel the need to. I will never feel proud of my sexuality, it is just a part of me. I don't see many straight people wearing shirts like "I'M FUCKING STRAIGHT."
I don't see the point in all of it, I understand the oppression and stuff but honestly gay pride festivals just show many, many people living up to the stereotypes that we have. I don't want to be associated with that stereotype and I don't want my sexuality to take over my entire existence. I am into music, writing, reading, concerts, games and many other things, just like a normal human being - it just so happens that I'm a dude who likes dudes. I'm not gonna flaunt around in a rainbow shirt because of it.
PERSONAL OPINION HERE, DON'T JUMP ME FOR IT.

[Vermilion]

Gay Pride is today in my city, I'm not going, I don't feel the need to. I will never feel proud of my sexuality, it is just a part of me. I don't see many straight people wearing shirts like "I'M FUCKING STRAIGHT."
I don't see the point in all of it, I understand the oppression and stuff but honestly gay pride festivals just show many, many people living up to the stereotypes that we have. I don't want to be associated with that stereotype and I don't want my sexuality to take over my entire existence. I am into music, writing, reading, concerts, games and many other things, just like a normal human being - it just so happens that I'm a dude who likes dudes. I'm not gonna flaunt around in a rainbow shirt because of it.
PERSONAL OPINION HERE, DON'T JUMP ME FOR IT.


Well said jack :) couldn't agree more

[SethfromMI]

Being gay isn't really something to be "proud" of. It isn't a bad thing, but it's not better than being straight. So, as to the idea of gay pride I'd say meh...

But, as to the gay pride movements and such, I would agree with the OP.

this. I'm bi, but it is just a part of who I am. I did not choose it, it is not something I did on my own. not something to be ashamed of or proud of, it is just who you are

[Sugaree]

I agree.

-

LGBT are subjected to brutal oppression in capitalist society.

And would a communist or socialist society not treat them any differently? Just curious as to why it's always a capitalist society that is oppressive and never a communist or socialist society being called oppressive.

As far as gay pride is concerned, I think it's stupid. Being proud of your sexuality is useless. These people are going out and saying they're proud of something that doesn't affect the kind of person they are in any way, shape, or form. Back when the LGBT community was shunned on a large scale (the poster above mentioning the Stonewall riots as a great example), such pride parades were necessary to some degree. But now, in an era where the LGBT are much more accepted and even further ingrained into society than we once thought, pride parades and events are redundant.

Should people be proud of who they are? Of course they should. But gay pride focuses on just that: being gay, lesbian, or whatever. What people should be proud of is what kind of person they are. If they are kind, generous, humble, forgiving...things that define who a person is...those are things to be proud of. Being proud that you prefer men over women or women over men is, in plain English, stupid.

[Danny_boi 16]

Being gay isn't really something to be "proud" of. It isn't a bad thing, but it's not better than being straight. So, as to the idea of gay pride I'd say meh...

But, as to the gay pride movements and such, I would agree with the OP.

Gay pride doesn't equal gay superiority. The main idea is to show that members of the LGBT community are people. For years, and still now, we have been treated as second class citizens. The movement it to help others come out of the closet and embrace themselves and not feel ashamed of who they are. The movement also pushes for social change so that the community embraces LGBTs as equal citizens.

[Jaffe]

I agree with most people posting here.... being bi is just who I am, no different than a person who is gay or one who is straight or anything else. I see no reason to have a big celebration for that. Maybe we should have a "straight pride" and a "gay pride", and only bi people can attend both.....

I've never understood the separationist thing. Gay bars, straight bars, gay pride, all the things that make us separate, but why be separate?

I do understand, though, that every person has their own identity. All of us have strong identifiers and weaker identifiers. I am bi, but that is definitely NOT a strong identity to me. My strongest identity is being a swimmer, and then being European (even though I dont live there, that is my family heritage, and I am close to my family). Other parts of my personality and identity go on down the line of how strongly I identify with them. My sexuality is near the bottom of the list.

BUT to some people, it's at the top of their list, and I would not try to interfere with that. If they want to celebrate it, let them. The same with other identities people have. I would never try to stop the hispanic population here from celebrating (and there are a lot of festivals similar to pride, but for hispanics). I would never try to stop musicians from having a jazz festival. I don't think a gay pride celebration is any different than any of these. I've never been to one, because I've never felt the need to. But if people want to celebrate it, let them.

[Zachary G]

I dont understand how any of you can not be proud of who you are, whether it be gay/straight/bi, etc. You say your sexuality is just a part of what makes you who you are, but isnt your life enough to be proud of?

Gay pride or LGBT pride is the positive stance against discrimination and violence toward lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender (LGBT) people to promote their self-affirmation, dignity, equality rights, increase their visibility as a social group, build community, and celebrate sexual diversity and gender variance. Pride, as opposed to shame and social stigma, is the predominant outlook that bolsters most LGBT rights movements throughout the world.

[Jaffe]

I dont understand how any of you can not be proud of who you are, whether it be gay/straight/bi, etc. You say your sexuality is just a part of what makes you who you are, but isnt your life enough to be proud of?


Yes, life is definitely enough to be proud of. So I'd go to a "Life Pride" festival maybe. Which would celebrate being alive, not celebrating my sexuality.

[Zachary G]

Yes, life is definitely enough to be proud of. So I'd go to a "Life Pride" festival maybe. Which would celebrate being alive, not celebrating my sexuality.

There is so much more to it than JUST celebrating sexuality --

[Stronk Serb]

I dont understand how any of you can not be proud of who you are, whether it be gay/straight/bi, etc. You say your sexuality is just a part of what makes you who you are, but isnt your life enough to be proud of?

Gay pride or LGBT pride is the positive stance against discrimination and violence toward lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender (LGBT) people to promote their self-affirmation, dignity, equality rights, increase their visibility as a social group, build community, and celebrate sexual diversity and gender variance. Pride, as opposed to shame and social stigma, is the predominant outlook that bolsters most LGBT rights movements throughout the world.

Honestly, most of the pride parades are striptease fests. If you want to raise awerness about your opression, you make a protest. I just think it's extremely commercialised now. Before you had LGBT protesting the government to stop treating them as cases of mental illnes. Now you have them dancing in the street in tight underwear asking for marriage rights. I think people would taje them more seriously if they were normally dressed.

[Zachary G]

Honestly, most of the pride parades are striptease fests. If you want to raise awerness about your opression, you make a protest. I just think it's extremely commercialised now. Before you had LGBT protesting the government to stop treating them as cases of mental illnes. Now you have them dancing in the street in tight underwear asking for marriage rights. I think people would taje them more seriously if they were normally dressed.

I agree with you about the parades, they have become very commercial and pretty lewd with the lack of clothing they wear, but as I said and my main point is, there is more to it than that and wouldnt that be enough to have some pride in --- the accomplishments that have been made through the protesting and governmental lobbying?

[Miserabilia]

I have no problem with homo/bisexuality but I can not stand "gay" subculture.

[DriveAlive]

I grapple with whether or not I support gay pride parades or even the gay subculture to an extent. As a gay male who is in the closet, I am certainly not going to be participating in any of these, but I can see why you might want to embrace your sexuality openly if you have spent your whole life hiding it. With that said, I do think that it might send the wrong message about gay stereotypes that the gay rights movement just does not need.

[Babs]

I am not into rainbows and all that shit, but if people wanna participate in pride parades and whatnot, more power to them. It's not about being better than straight people, it's really more of a positive message against the stigma attached to being gay.

[Sir Suomi]

Sexuality shouldn't be anything to be proud of. Whether it's genetic, influenced through previous life experiences, or by pure choice, it should remain something that you don't flaunt out for the world to see.

I mean, do you see many straight prides out there? :P

[ImCoolBeans]

People don't have "straight pride" because every day is straight pride day -- everywhere you go.

I don't think gay pride is stupid. Some people don't need to be proud of it, but some people do. People who need gay pride need it because they have been oppressed and told that they are wrong. Some people don't understand it, and I don't expect everyone to understand it, but I wouldn't call it "stupid". I think the ways some people express their pride is questionable -- walking around naked painted like a rainbow isn't my cup of tea -- but the idea of gay pride doesn't stop there. It's about being happy, comfortable, and proud to be yourself.

[Lovelife090994]

I love gay pride, I am not flamboyant however nor have I ever been involved in the LGBT (I want to be), and I wish it wasn't so commercialized and laden on body image. However, considering how the LGBT was targeted during the Holocaust and how in America we were expected to either shut up, get mental help, or simply not exist because that was a crime I think pride is a great way to say fuck the bigots, "WE EXIST!" But partially, I think we should use Pride for equality.

[phuckphace]

as someone who lives on the gay side of the Iron Curtain, I gotta strongly caution you against giving these people any sort of legal recognition. here's why:

simply put, it's a slippery slope. the Serbian LGBT crowd are polite and well-behaved because they have to be - if they shrieked as loudly as Western gays do they'd find themselves on the ground with Obersturmführer Šešelj's boot on their necks. today's "may I please have some rights if it's not too much trouble" is tomorrow's "UGH CISHET BIGOT MICROAGRESSIONS!!!" and they'll begin attacking conventional morality through the legal system. don't believe the horseshit about "we only want equal rights", you'll be surprised how quickly that's abandoned in favor of suppressing dissent because it's "triggering" (note the reaction to my posts in that Bruce Jenner thread.) you can expect to hear the term tyranny of the majority thrown around too

the above is reason numero uno why I don't associate with the LGBT rights crowd, as an LGBT apostate/heretic

[Stronk Serb]

as someone who lives on the gay side of the Iron Curtain, I gotta strongly caution you against giving these people any sort of legal recognition. here's why:

simply put, it's a slippery slope. the Serbian LGBT crowd are polite and well-behaved because they have to be - if they shrieked as loudly as Western gays do they'd find themselves on the ground with Obersturmführer Šešelj's boot on their necks. today's "may I please have some rights if it's not too much trouble" is tomorrow's "UGH CISHET BIGOT MICROAGRESSIONS!!!" and they'll begin attacking conventional morality through the legal system. don't believe the horseshit about "we only want equal rights", you'll be surprised how quickly that's abandoned in favor of suppressing dissent because it's "triggering" (note the reaction to my posts in that Bruce Jenner thread.) you can expect to hear the term tyranny of the majority thrown around too

the above is reason numero uno why I don't associate with the LGBT rights crowd, as an LGBT apostate/heretic

Sort of agree. Maybe give them rights legally, but socially keep the status quo (at least in Serbia). Also,no obe expects the LGBT inquisition!

[Microcosm]

as someone who lives on the gay side of the Iron Curtain, I gotta strongly caution you against giving these people any sort of legal recognition. here's why:

simply put, it's a slippery slope. the Serbian LGBT crowd are polite and well-behaved because they have to be - if they shrieked as loudly as Western gays do they'd find themselves on the ground with Obersturmführer Šešelj's boot on their necks. today's "may I please have some rights if it's not too much trouble" is tomorrow's "UGH CISHET BIGOT MICROAGRESSIONS!!!" and they'll begin attacking conventional morality through the legal system. don't believe the horseshit about "we only want equal rights", you'll be surprised how quickly that's abandoned in favor of suppressing dissent because it's "triggering" (note the reaction to my posts in that Bruce Jenner thread.) you can expect to hear the term tyranny of the majority thrown around too

the above is reason numero uno why I don't associate with the LGBT rights crowd, as an LGBT apostate/heretic

Your posts in the Bruce Jenner thread opened up and changed my opinions on some of these things. When the majority isn't getting what they want, they make it popular to look down on anyone who goes against their views. Also, typically with issues of this sort(in this case, gay rights), the things they're fighting and protesting for are things that they don't need whatsoever, but rather they want it because it feels good to them and that's just "who they are" so much so that they're willing to suppress LGBT heretics' free speech(not legally, but by using majority rule or mass hysteria) which they claim to so passionately support and exercise.

[phuckphace]

Your posts in the Bruce Jenner thread opened up and changed my opinions on some of these things. When the majority isn't getting what they want, they make it popular to look down on anyone who goes against their views. Also, typically with issues of this sort(in this case, gay rights), the things they're fighting and protesting for are things that they don't need whatsoever, but rather they want it because it feels good to them and that's just "who they are" so much so that they're willing to suppress LGBT heretics' free speech(not legally, but by using majority rule or mass hysteria) which they claim to so passionately support and exercise.

the LGBT crew engages in SJW total-war tactics because they know they have to

LGBT people are at most about ~2% of the population, and cishet bigots are the overwhelming majority - this will never change, and the LGBT crowd knows this. hence why their political success is dependent on shaming conventional morality out of existence - "only a stupid redneck who believes dinosaurs are 6000 years old would have a problem with anything I do!!!" this is a key part of their platform: they of course are the ones on the right side of history & who can do no wrong, waging a holy war against bigots who are "stuck in the past" and anyone else who doesn't accept any kind of "alternative lifestyle" (behavioral sink) with total enthusiasm. additionally, any problems faced by LGBT people can always be attributed to bigots and discrimination, which requires much less effort than actually trying to make yourself a better person

reminder: when a man says he's really a woman trapped in a man's body and has his genitals cut off to more closely match his bizarre delusions of womanhood, we're supposed to cheer for him/her/it with a straight face, but if a Christian says he hears the voice of Jesus convicting him of his sin, it's time to break out the butterfly net.

[Zenos]

What's your opinion on gay pride? I think it's a good idea, but awfuly commercialised, at least in the western world. I think it should be a protest against the government to treat all equally, not an LGBTl public striptease festival.

As a gay I can say it's as moronic as being proud your straight!

I'm gay big deal it's just sexuality not a figgin holiday!

Your posts in the Bruce Jenner thread opened up and changed my opinions on some of these things. When the majority isn't getting what they want, they make it popular to look down on anyone who goes against their views. Also, typically with issues of this sort(in this case, gay rights), the things they're fighting and protesting for are things that they don't need whatsoever, but rather they want it because it feels good to them and that's just "who they are" so much so that they're willing to suppress LGBT heretics' free speech(not legally, but by using majority rule or mass hysteria) which they claim to so passionately support and exercise.

Wait a minute are you saying gays shouldn't have the same rights as straights,or or you blasting those who don't want gays to have the same rights as any other citizen?

Double Post merged. ~R.D.

[Microcosm]

Wait a minute are you saying gays shouldn't have the same rights as straights,or or you blasting those who don't want gays to have the same rights as any other citizen?

They should have the same rights. What I'm saying is that they suppress the opinions of anyone who goes against their opinion and make it popular to do so. They'll continue to do this with all cases of conventional morality until it's all gone and we're just living in a society full of people who live for material pleasure. That's not exactly a good society.

My point is that they suppress others' rights to free speech. Like I said, not legally, but through the natural reactions of society to certain concepts.

For instance, anyone who is against homosexuality and attempts to tell others about why they are against it is called a homophobe and is shunned from ever spreading their opinion. The same is true for those who hold opinions against the concept of transgender(those who are born men and think and act as a woman and vice versa).

In short, everyone deserves rights. Knowing this, even those who are strongly against the idea that "if it makes you happy, then it should be legal(which is ludicrous)" should have the right to freely express that. These opinions should be viewed by a reasonable society without bias. However, it only goes to show that our society is not reasonable(in majority), but rather only cares about happiness in material pleasure rather than morality.

[Vlerchan]

What I'm saying is that they suppress the opinions of anyone who goes against their opinion and make it popular to do so.
You want to suppress LGBT people and their allies opinions, so they'll stop suppressing other people's opinions.

I am reading this correct right?

These opinions should be viewed by a reasonable society without bias.
I'm not sure what point is attempting to me made here.

I'm only addressing it because it seems essential to the succeeding point

However, it only goes to show that our society is not reasonable(in majority), but rather only cares about happiness in material pleasure rather than morality.
Or equates happiness in terms of material pleasure with what is moral.

[Karkat]

I've never been a fan of pride because I think it's largely overdone and obnoxious

BUT, I feel like having a sense of pride in who you are is good, in a way.

We should be able to look at ourselves and go "I'm not ashamed of the gender I like or the gender I am". But also not get a big head over it. It really goes for most things.

However, I feel like a festival with the purpose being almost entirely just to celebrate being gay is a little obnoxious. Protesting is one thing.

[Microcosm]

You want to suppress LGBT people and their allies opinions, so they'll stop suppressing other people's opinions.

I am reading this correct right?

My point is that the suppression of opinion is wrong altogether. Neither side should suppress opinion. However, now that I think about it, this is impossible. The very act of attempting not to suppress an opinion, would be suppressing opinion.


I'm not sure what point is attempting to me made here.

I'm only addressing it because it seems essential to the succeeding point


People shouldn't write off others opinions as nothing more than "homophobic nonsense" or something like that.

Or equates happiness in terms of material pleasure with what is moral.

Overindulgence in material pleasure is not moral because it opens the door to further disintegration of conventional morals. It makes the conventional morality that humanity has built up for thousands of years basically void.

[DriveAlive]

My point is that the suppression of opinion is wrong altogether. Neither side should suppress opinion. However, now that I think about it, this is impossible. The very act of attempting not to suppress an opinion, would be suppressing opinion.




People shouldn't write off others opinions as nothing more than "homophobic nonsense" or something like that.



Overindulgence in material pleasure is not moral because it opens the door to further disintegration of conventional morals. It makes the conventional morality that humanity has built up for thousands of years basically void.
But sometimes it is homophobic nonsense. If you have ever talked to a true racist or heard the guys from the Westboro Baptist Church talk, you know exactly what I am talking about. I believe that people have a right to say what they want, but I certainly do not have to respect their opinion. No one is stopping people from being homophobic, but I will certainly call someone out if they are. If a person started saying something racist, you should say that you disagree with them.

[Vlerchan]

The very act of attempting not to suppress an opinion, would be suppressing opinion.
Not to mention that in order to allow for a functional society some opinions do need to be suppressed.

Like murderous urges.

People shouldn't write off others opinions as nothing more than "homophobic nonsense" or something like that.
In a lot of cases that's what the opinions of the anti-LGBT crowd represent.

There is exceptions - [P]huckphace and I have debated the issue for examples - and is these cases I will expand beyond 'homophobic nonsense'. But it's just a waste of time otherwise.

Overindulgence in material pleasure is not moral because it opens the door to further disintegration of conventional morals. It makes the conventional morality that humanity has built up for thousands of years basically void.
This argument isn't logically consistent at all.

Something cannot be immoral just because it does not align with your own morals.

There's also no reason to hold a preference for conventional morals. Like none. I support some but that's with reference to things other than them having been a good thing before I was born.

[Rayquaza]

The lack of knowledge over the origins of "Gay Pride" in this thread (which we now refer to in this modern age as Pride), is pretty alarming and underwhelming. And I can see most of the opinions being based on stereotypes and the advertised view of pride.

Pride is a fundamental union where people of all sexualities and genders can be themselves because we are still living in a homophobic and censored world, where may I remind most of you, there are still countries that kill or jail people for being gay.

If you do identify as LGBT+, you of all people should know about the Stonewall riots outside the Stonewall Inn which was the uproar by predominantly gay men and led by a trans-women that led to not only Pride, but the rights that our community finally has after literally, decades of fighting, and it was something we shouldn't need to have fought for in the first place.

Because of this uproar, it led people to go on marches and parades to celebrate their emancipation of their sexuality and gender. We need pride. Pride isn't just a day. It celebrates how far we've managed to come. And it will celebrate the rights we have fought for and we're giving to our future generations.

It's not just some fancy-campy-rainbow-appearance driven event. It's reclaiming the years we lost, the lives we lost and the happiness we lost for centuries.

I will be going this Saturday to my cities Pride event, and it's one of the days of the year I always wait for because of how amazing it is being felt socially accepted and not judged for being me.

Now I will admit, there has been commercialisation of Pride recently in some few vents but that's where Student Unions come in. My LGBT+ student union, as well as others, are fighting against being charged for Pride, because we're broke students after all. The one in my city is asking for donations which are going to support LGBT+ causes. Now that is something I'm perfectly fine with.

What's your opinion on gay pride? I think it's a good idea, but awfuly commercialised, at least in the western world. I think it should be a protest against the government to treat all equally, not an LGBTl public striptease festival.

You're right about the protest. I do agree that an element of uproar should still be in pride, relating back to the historic origin. But recently, campaigns, such as the whole FCKH8 bullshit are setting us back because the message that is being majorly passed is love and equality rather than gay superiority.

Being gay isn't really something to be "proud" of. It isn't a bad thing, but it's not better than being straight. So, as to the idea of gay pride I'd say meh...

But, as to the gay pride movements and such, I would agree with the OP.

It most definitely should be something to be proud of, for the reasons above. If you are not proud of something, does that make you ashamed of it? Because I nor most of the community would want to revert back to pre-acceptance times and feel ashamed for who we are.

I agree.

-

LGBT are subjected to brutal oppression in capitalist society. Oppression, discrimination, and legal harassment continue to exist on a massive scale. So much so that millions feel obliged to conceal their sexuality or to repress it. Against all who voluntarily or involuntarily reveal their sexuality, repression is unleashed.

I think gay pride itself is acceptable, where people can be free from hate, express and love themselves for who they are, especially when we're looked down upon.

I wish LGBT people would educate themselves on the history of gay pride and why it exists today (which takes us back to the 1950s and 1960s when the LGBT community faced an anti-homosexual legal system, forwarding to the Stonewall riots), rather than ignoring it completely and using it as a way to shove it down people's throats that screams "I'm gay, I'm better than you". I don't see how that would solve any problems. I wouldn't say every LGBT pride's like a striptease festival, but if that's how some of them like to run it, then so be it. Not only LGBT people, but anyone of any background can feel happy and have the best time of their life by accepting one another.

All members of the LGBT community should feel like an actual human being, and not get beat up because of who they are. Pride makes us feel safe.

Thank you. If we had rep I would've up+repped this a thousand times over.

I have no problem with homo/bisexuality but I can not stand "gay" subculture.

Sounds more like a stereotype. Why can't you 'stand' it exactly?

They should have the same rights. What I'm saying is that they suppress the opinions of anyone who goes against their opinion and make it popular to do so. They'll continue to do this with all cases of conventional morality until it's all gone and we're just living in a society full of people who live for material pleasure. That's not exactly a good society.

My point is that they suppress others' rights to free speech. Like I said, not legally, but through the natural reactions of society to certain concepts.

For instance, anyone who is against homosexuality and attempts to tell others about why they are against it is called a homophobe and is shunned from ever spreading their opinion. The same is true for those who hold opinions against the concept of transgender(those who are born men and think and act as a woman and vice versa).

In short, everyone deserves rights. Knowing this, even those who are strongly against the idea that "if it makes you happy, then it should be legal(which is ludicrous)" should have the right to freely express that. These opinions should be viewed by a reasonable society without bias. However, it only goes to show that our society is not reasonable(in majority), but rather only cares about happiness in material pleasure rather than morality.

Obviously we're going to supress the opinions of homophobes and people that are against us. We're fucking sick of it. We've come so far and I'll be damned if some bigot comes along and says this is all wrong. There is no reason why they're against homosexuality. There is no logical reasoning or sense, it's all based on bigotry. And we're glad that society is starting to make a sharp bend in their understanding.
As for natural reactions of society, it's incredibly naïve to assume that there is a natural reaction, when the reaction is conditioned from many factors. Societies reactions are not always the moral reactions (subjective). The whole concept of a reasonable society is ever changing because there are always movements coming and going. It just so happens that the gay rights movement has been going on for far too long. And we've had enough. Our society isn't materialistic, it's led by backwards individuals at the top of the chain that are not prone to changing their view on matters, as well as the previous generation before them.

[Microcosm]

It most definitely should be something to be proud of, for the reasons above. If you are not proud of something, does that make you ashamed of it? Because I nor most of the community would want to revert back to pre-acceptance times and feel ashamed for who we are.

The achievements that the LGBT community has made are worth celebrating. However, the idea that you should have pride in the fact of just being homosexual and nothing else seems a bit silly. That's like me saying I'm proud of having brown hair.

Obviously we're going to supress the opinions of homophobes and people that are against us. We're fucking sick of it. We've come so far and I'll be damned if some bigot comes along and says this is all wrong. There is no reason why they're against homosexuality. There is no logical reasoning or sense, it's all based on bigotry. And we're glad that society is starting to make a sharp bend in their understanding.
As for natural reactions of society, it's incredibly naïve to assume that there is a natural reaction, when the reaction is conditioned from many factors. Societies reactions are not always the moral reactions (subjective). The whole concept of a reasonable society is ever changing because there are always movements coming and going. It just so happens that the gay rights movement has been going on for far too long. And we've had enough. Our society isn't materialistic, it's led by backwards individuals at the top of the chain that are not prone to changing their view on matters, as well as the previous generation before them.

Alright. So, I'm going to have to clear something up on this one.

It appears that two trains of my thought have converged in making my last couple of responses and the two don't go together or make reasonable sense, so I'm going to separate them.

On the one hand, I'm glad gays have the right to be married. It's a good thing because it has been proven that homosexuality can occur from birth and is something that these individuals cannot control. Therefore, we have no reason or justification for legally restricting them from their own desires in this way.

On the other train of thought rests a different, but slightly related thought. The idea that gays have the right to marry should not influence decisions on cases such as polygamy because they are completely unrelated. It appears that some have interpreted the idea that gays can get married as "as long as it makes us happy, it should be legal." This is an idea that is clearly ludicrous and wrong(note that gay marriage is okay because it does not heavily effect the idea and sanctity of marriage). Basically what I'm saying is that I wouldn't like to see this idea spreading through society as it appears to be doing in justification of immoral acts because they "make us happy."

Now, the second train of thought got a bit mixed up and started almost blaming this on homosexuality. This was a mistake on my part which I did not realize at the time.

So, sorry about that if I offended anyone. I hope this post clears that up.

[Rayquaza]

The achievements that the LGBT community has made are worth celebrating. However, the idea that you should have pride in the fact of just being homosexual and nothing else seems a bit silly. That's like me saying I'm proud of having brown hair.

Dude, it's almost as if you completely ignored everything I said. Would you be put in prison or sentenced to death for your hair type? No. Would you have been subjected to random police checks because you were wearing articles of clothing that were not legally assigned to your biological sex? Yes. Comparing something like appearance to sexuality is ridiculous. The two are completely different.

Alright. So, I'm going to have to clear something up on this one.

It appears that two trains of my thought have converged in making my last couple of responses and the two don't go together or make reasonable sense, so I'm going to separate them.

On the one hand, I'm glad gays have the right to be married. It's a good thing because it has been proven that homosexuality can occur from birth and is something that these individuals cannot control. Therefore, we have no reason or justification for legally restricting them from their own desires in this way.

On the other train of thought rests a different, but slightly related thought. The idea that gays have the right to marry should not influence decisions on cases such as polygamy because they are completely unrelated. It appears that some have interpreted the idea that gays can get married as "as long as it makes us happy, it should be legal." This is an idea that is clearly ludicrous and wrong(note that gay marriage is okay because it does not heavily effect the idea and sanctity of marriage). Basically what I'm saying is that I wouldn't like to see this idea spreading through society as it appears to be doing in justification of immoral acts because they "make us happy."

I really don't understand the point you're making here, it all seems to be waffle. Gay marriage and pride isn't immoral so I have no idea how this relates to the original topic of the thread. There is a difference between 'making people happy' and letting people be who they are when they pose no danger or threat to society, themselves or individuals around them.

[TylerK]

"Any type of love or joy in the world is a good thing" ~ Aziz Ansari during a bit on Gay Rights.

I feel the same way, who cares what they're doing? I mind my own business, and they do theirs. I happen to be bi so I might be a little bias, but whatever

[Miserabilia]

Sounds more like a stereotype. Why can't you 'stand' it exactly?


Well subculture was the wrong use of word, I basicly mean the gay stereotype behaviour like the lips and the limp wrists. And by cannot stand I mean they annoy me, just like girly girls and girls that use vocal fry annoy me, or "sassy" black women, or permanently angry "manly men" that walk around flexing. all that type of behaviour that seems to come by being part of a group.

[Rayquaza]

Well subculture was the wrong use of word, I basicly mean the gay stereotype behaviour like the lips and the limp wrists. And by cannot stand I mean they annoy me, just like girly girls and girls that use vocal fry annoy me, or "sassy" black women, or permanently angry "manly men" that walk around flexing. all that type of behaviour that seems to come by being part of a group.

Yeah that's definitely a stereotype. The whole camp aesthetic with the floppy wrists is what people think every gay male has, and it's a very limited view on gay culture. Surely if you know that it's a stereotype, it shouldn't bother you? Although some people do have this look to them, it's not part of being in a group, it's that people who think and act alike join together. Even within the gay community people say "no fems", "no camps" etc. It means even gay men in the community will reject other gay guys that describe exactly what you're describing. That's homophobia within the gay community. I've really never known about this flexing behaviour you're talking about.
If people are bothered by people being camp, it means that they've been conditioned to believe men are expected to behave a certain way and therefore is not direct homophobia but adds onto the societal view of pigeon-holing gender into boxes, with no room for gender-bending or anything in between.

There has also recently been a vote to stop using "inner sassy black woman" as a phrase because it's seen to be misappropriating a culture. A lot of gay men that have used that to describe themselves have come under fire because of it. However it's not to say that the characteristics of some sassy woman and a sassy man are not similar.

[Miserabilia]

okay, so, basicly, social justice etc etc

this part specifily I want to reply to though

If people are bothered by people being camp, it means that they've been conditioned to believe men are expected to behave a certain way and therefore is not direct homophobia but adds onto the societal view of pigeon-holing gender into boxes, with no room for gender-bending or anything in between.


I'm sorry but this is ridiculous. I just strongly dislike people who act in certain ways because it annoys me. Just like people who talk really loudly annoy me, people who chew with their mouth open. I'm not trying to say men can't do those things, it's just that I don't like it. And I'm aware that it's a stereotype that obviously isn't *caused* by simply being homosexual but in gay male popular culture it seems to happen so much that it's just a group thing. And I don't like it, that's all.

I've been conditioned to beielive that men should act "manly" and I dislike that too. What I would like it for everyone to be their inner selves without a layer ontop of that that just immates others around them. I know people don't conciouscly do it, just like I will take on words and accents other people around me use, but that doesn't mean I like it.

[Rayquaza]

okay, so, basicly, social justice etc etc

this part specifily I want to reply to though


I'm sorry but this is ridiculous. I just strongly dislike people who act in certain ways because it annoys me. Just like people who talk really loudly annoy me, people who chew with their mouth open. I'm not trying to say men can't do those things, it's just that I don't like it. And I'm aware that it's a stereotype that obviously isn't *caused* by simply being homosexual but in gay male popular culture it seems to happen so much that it's just a group thing. And I don't like it, that's all.

I've been conditioned to beielive that men should act "manly" and I dislike that too. What I would like it for everyone to be their inner selves without a layer ontop of that that just immates others around them. I know people don't conciouscly do it, just like I will take on words and accents other people around me use, but that doesn't mean I like it.

There's a difference between hating people because they're obnoxious and hating people because they have a personality you're not used to. Obviously your view has not been opened enough to see how much more there is to gay culture. Gay pride isn't just filled with these kind of stereotypes. Whist it may be abundant, it's not something that should be used as a representative of gay people. It's not ridiculous at all what I said, you've just not understood it. What you're touching on is a topic in which people behave when they're around other people in group. But that's not what pride is and the groups, it's the opposite. It's where like-minded people meet. I think if you have a problem with that kind of personality, its a fault of your conditioning, but that's something pride continues to battle and push past. That's another reason why we need pride, the exposure of unique styles and people.

[Miserabilia]

There's a difference between hating people because they're obnoxious and hating people because they have a personality you're not used to.

Yes.. yes there is. But a personality is something different than the way people present themselves as I said with the earlier examples. If a girl dressed super "girly" and talked with vocal fry and said "like" and "oh em gee" a lot I would have no idea what her personality was and I still would find it annoying/bothersome. I have friends who do this and they annoy me too despite being my friends, and that's okay.


Gay pride isn't just filled with these kind of stereotypes. Whist it may be abundant, it's not something that should be used as a representative of gay people.

But that's exactly it; it is used that way. I know there is enormous diversity among queer people and obviously everyone is different, acts different, etc, but for gay pride the over the top rainbow/pink everywhere thing is all over the place, and even though I support gay pride I don't like it, just like I don't like a disneyland parade.

What you're touching on is a topic in which people behave when they're around other people in group. But that's not what pride is and the groups, it's the opposite. It's where like-minded people meet. I think if you have a problem with that kind of personality, its a fault of your conditioning, but that's something pride continues to battle and push past. That's another reason why we need pride, the exposure of unique styles and people.

I wouldn't say it's the opposite. It's a different side of the same coin. Like minded people in a group are the most likely to start acting the same way.

Also what exactly do you mean with "that kind of personality"?
Implying that I have a problem with personalities because I don't like the way a lot of people within a group act is strange to me, because once again, the way someone acts does not have to be representative of their personalities.

For example I don't like when gay pride is very sexualized, and even though that's just a very small part that seems so present because there's more attention drawn to it, I definetely wouldn't want to visit a gay pride parade if I had kids if there is something very sexualized in it.
That doesn't mean I don't like people that have a personality where they are more open about sex, it just means I don't want to see it.

[Rayquaza]

Yes.. yes there is. But a personality is something different than the way people present themselves as I said with the earlier examples. If a girl dressed super "girly" and talked with vocal fry and said "like" and "oh em gee" a lot I would have no idea what her personality was and I still would find it annoying/bothersome. I have friends who do this and they annoy me too despite being my friends, and that's okay. But that's exactly it; it is used that way. I know there is enormous diversity among queer people and obviously everyone is different, acts different, etc, but for gay pride the over the top rainbow/pink everywhere thing is all over the place, and even though I support gay pride I don't like it, just like I don't like a disneyland parade. I wouldn't say it's the opposite. It's a different side of the same coin. Like minded people in a group are the most likely to start acting the same way.

I've already mentioned that pride isn't just a fabulous campy event, there are other pride events and alternatives for people that find typical parades daunting. This doesn't destroy the fact that we still need pride and that pride is still important.

Also what exactly do you mean with "that kind of personality"?
Implying that I have a problem with personalities because I don't like the way a lot of people within a group act is strange to me, because once again, the way someone acts does not have to be representative of their personalities.

>>>???????
I've already made the point twice about groups and group activity, and I don't understand why you're so convinced that it's an "act".

For example I don't like when gay pride is very sexualized, and even though that's just a very small part that seems so present because there's more attention drawn to it, I definetely wouldn't want to visit a gay pride parade if I had kids if there is something very sexualized in it.
That doesn't mean I don't like people that have a personality where they are more open about sex, it just means I don't want to see it.

Your view on Pride seems reductive. Maybe the sexualisation of pride parade floats and pride is an issue where you're from, but where the majority of the world have common sense, gay pride is a brilliant event for children. I don't know what you find sexualised at all. If two guys kissing is too sexual, well then god bless.

[Microcosm]

Dude, it's almost as if you completely ignored everything I said. Would you be put in prison or sentenced to death for your hair type? No. Would you have been subjected to random police checks because you were wearing articles of clothing that were not legally assigned to your biological sex? Yes. Comparing something like appearance to sexuality is ridiculous. The two are completely different.


In most developed countries, homosexuals aren't being put in prison or police checked for these sorts of things. I think that's a huge exaggeration.

I really don't understand the point you're making here, it all seems to be waffle. Gay marriage and pride isn't immoral so I have no idea how this relates to the original topic of the thread. There is a difference between 'making people happy' and letting people be who they are when they pose no danger or threat to society, themselves or individuals around them.

I wasn't "making a point," not of argument at least. I was stating my opinions about homosexuality in general and apologizing for mixing some of them up in previous posts.

I'm done posting in this thread now.

[Miserabilia]

I've already mentioned that pride isn't just a fabulous campy event, there are other pride events and alternatives for people that find typical parades daunting. This doesn't destroy the fact that we still need pride and that pride is still important.


Yup. I aggree completely.


>>>???????
I've already made the point twice about groups and group activity, and I don't understand why you're so convinced that it's an "act".


that's nice but I think this is a language issue...
I don't mean it's an "act" which I beleive is an expression used when someone is faking something. I mean the way they "act" as in the way they "behave", which is probably a better word. I am not referring to "putting up an act". Sorry if my choice of words isn't ideal sometimes, english isn't my first language.


Your view on Pride seems reductive. Maybe the sexualisation of pride parade floats and pride is an issue where you're from, but where the majority of the world have common sense, gay pride is a brilliant event for children. I don't know what you find sexualised at all. If two guys kissing is too sexual, well then god bless.

Yah I'm not referring to two guys kissing.
I'm referring to very excessive nudity, for one.

[Zenos]

They should have the same rights. What I'm saying is that they suppress the opinions of anyone who goes against their opinion and make it popular to do so. They'll continue to do this with all cases of conventional morality until it's all gone and we're just living in a society full of people who live for material pleasure. That's not exactly a good society.

My point is that they suppress others' rights to free speech. Like I said, not legally, but through the natural reactions of society to certain concepts.

For instance, anyone who is against homosexuality and attempts to tell others about why they are against it is called a homophobe and is shunned from ever spreading their opinion. The same is true for those who hold opinions against the concept of transgender(those who are born men and think and act as a woman and vice versa).

In short, everyone deserves rights. Knowing this, even those who are strongly against the idea that "if it makes you happy, then it should be legal(which is ludicrous)" should have the right to freely express that. These opinions should be viewed by a reasonable society without bias. However, it only goes to show that our society is not reasonable(in majority), but rather only cares about happiness in material pleasure rather than morality.


Well the Supreme court has ruled that gay marriage is constituionally legal in all 50 states!

Also when you stated "they'll continue to do this with all cases of conventional morality until it's all gone and we're just living in a society full of people who live for material pleasure. "


Don't blame that on just us gays,people regardless of sexuality have been doing that for ages!

[LoveDat]

i think it is a great way to raise awareness! but it is sad that there is the need to do so!
Being gay should be considered just as normal as being straight..
Personally I wouldn't want to go to a pride event, becuase i dont see why i sould alienate myself because of my sexuality. Im just a pretty regular human being that happens to be gay.. just like other people happen to be straight. Why make a bug fuss because of it?

[lukene]

People don't have "straight pride" because every day is straight pride day -- everywhere you go.

I don't think gay pride is stupid. Some people don't need to be proud of it, but some people do. People who need gay pride need it because they have been oppressed and told that they are wrong. Some people don't understand it, and I don't expect everyone to understand it, but I wouldn't call it "stupid". I think the ways some people express their pride is questionable -- walking around naked painted like a rainbow isn't my cup of tea -- but the idea of gay pride doesn't stop there. It's about being happy, comfortable, and proud to be yourself.
http://media.giphy.com/media/10xZU9b7JBx14s/giphy.gif

[Dune]

I generally find the term "pride" when attached to an uncontrollable factor such as skin color or sexual orientation to be a little pretentious and damaging to social development.The sooner off we stop promoting and capitalizing on our differences, the closer we become. That's how I see it.

[Stronk Serb]

I generally find the term "pride" when attached to an uncontrollable factor such as skin color or sexual orientation to be a little pretentious and damaging to social development.The sooner off we stop promoting and capitalizing on our differences, the closer we become. That's how I see it.

Me too. Try teling that to everyone else though...

[Zenos]

I generally find the term "pride" when attached to an uncontrollable factor such as skin color or sexual orientation to be a little pretentious and damaging to social development.The sooner off we stop promoting and capitalizing on our differences, the closer we become. That's how I see it.

I totally agree that it's pretentious and damaging to social development,not to meantion hypocritical in that if straights head Straight pride festivals and parades gays would be coming out of the would work,screaming Homophobioa and trying to stop them...and that's being said by yup a gay guy that's observed his fellow gays and their reactions to hetros.

Yes the gay community is brimming with HETROPHOBIA!

[Kirina]

Gay pride is good for raising awareness and there are still parts of the world that is still unaware. It can tone down in like US and places that are accepting of it, but Russia is a good (bad?) example of why we still need gay pride.

When I read gay pride, I read gay awareness. That's what everyone should be doing. If you really believe that they feel as if their above straight people, than your dumb. Obviously that's not what it's about (the name implies it), but you know it's not.
It would be nice with a name change tho.

[phuckphace]

the doublethink coming from the SJW crew is funny

back a few years ago when clamoring for gay marriage they'd say "Oh just get over it bigots, marriage no longer means anything anyway, it's just symbolic, I mean um hello Britney Spears?? Kim K???" but sometime between then and now it became "legalize gay marriage because not allowing everyone to love equally is oppression"

love, of course, is an abstraction that transcends any legal arrangement or barrier - it has always been readily possible to be gay and love someone else of the same sex regardless of any social mores to the contrary, even as far back as Victorian times and previous. extremely weak justification there.

it's actually really crazy how quickly the rhetoric shifts depending on context and intended audience. don't get what you want when you want it? you can always resort to crass vulgarity. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campaign_for_%22santorum%22_neologism)