How to deal with a FWB relationship?

[skittle]

First off, FWB = Friends with Benefits
I'll try and keep this short, ask for more details if you want them!

I'm in a FWB relationship with a close friend of mine, we also used to date. Then after we broke things off he started seeing a girl I didn't really like, now one of my best friends. After they broke up, we got close again and started our FWB relationship. It's a secret between the two of us.

He's been with quite a few people, whereas he's the only guy I've really been with. I know the girl that he likes, and I know how he plans to start things with her, but at the moment we're both single. Also, we made a deal that while we're hooking up with each other, we're not hooking up with anyone else. I told him that if he wanted to, that's fine, but he has to tell me and then we'll end things because I won't be one of many.

Also, now that we're FWB, we don't have the daily late-night conversations we used to, and I kind of miss that. He's been talking to other girls a lot too. But the worst thing is that all of our actual, meaningful conversations are in-person and post-sex, and his texts have resorted to "you still down for tonight?". I'm tired of feeling like just a hookup and not a friend, except I know we're still close from those in-person conversations.

Last point, I promise XD He's incredibly flirtatious. And it kind of bothers me. Especially when we're both seniors and he's flirting with girls 3 years younger. As I said, I'm comfortable with the girl that he's really interested in, and fully support that as a friend, but not with him and girls 3 years younger.

1) How is it that I should approach this subject with him? If we're not dating is it okay if I tell him some of his flirtation makes me uncomfortable?
2) How is it that I can make our relationship more about the friendship again and not only about the benefits? I really want both.

If anyone else is in a FWB, how is it that you manage things? Please PM me if you've got any advice that you don't want to share here. Thanks for all the help!

[Bmble_B]

This is a very tricky situation, since you guys are only FWB I don't think you can really control who he talks to, since you're not in a relationship before. In my opinion since you're having all of these feelings I feel you should end the FWB. It's hard for problems to not develop between two people in this situation, so it's best to end it. If you end that, then I think you'll get your good old friend back. If you truly want to keep hooking up with him, you'll have to deal with his flirtatiousness, or just talk to him about it, though I don't think that the latter option will end well.

[Uniquemind]

I would suggest just hanging out with him more for casual things other than just sex.
But you have to be careful because this is a slippery slope to suddenly realizing that perhaps you can't handle a FWB relationship because of the feelings within the friendship suddenly building. FWB relationships really best handled, in the way your doing it now, the distance helps keep things in check.
This might be a sign you'll need to end the FWB relationship because emotionally your beginning to slip.


As for his flirtatious ways, that's just his personality. If you have a problem with him because he's deceptive and tricking girls into dating/sleeping with them that's one thing. In which case I totally would also empathize with the girl getting tricked or whatnot, cuz part of me would feel like I was her, and I'd want to warn her exactly what she's getting into and let her decide from there.

But if the concept of him flirting/dating younger girls and perhaps even perhaps if you discover he has sex with them too.

It's okay for that to bug you, but it's really something you got to endure because that's their business, and not yours.

Also 3 year age gap really is nothing, and that sorts out with time.

I've known couples who have that age gap and then 10 years later once older they eventually settled down together, and then the age gap of 3 years means nothing.

[Vermilion]

Maybe tell him you feel as if he is using you and that you feel your friendship feels weaker than it use to.

[Zachary G]

to sum it up for your situation, it appears that you cannot have your cake and eat it too, so something is going to have to give. Either be his friend and go back to having those deep, meaningful conversations that you used to have, or be his booty call. It really seems that he has moved on and maybe it would be wise for you to end it and move on also.

[Uniquemind]

Maybe tell him you feel as if he is using you and that you feel your friendship feels weaker than it use to.

Yeah that might work. But he might also be a smooth talker, and try to ease her upset, with the intention to keep her in the deal.

[skittle]

This is a very tricky situation, since you guys are only FWB I don't think you can really control who he talks to, since you're not in a relationship before. In my opinion since you're having all of these feelings I feel you should end the FWB. It's hard for problems to not develop between two people in this situation, so it's best to end it. If you end that, then I think you'll get your good old friend back. If you truly want to keep hooking up with him, you'll have to deal with his flirtatiousness, or just talk to him about it, though I don't think that the latter option will end well.
That's what I was thinking as well, but at the same time in my ideal world, things wouldn't end. I also know that sometimes, something's got to give.
I guess it also bothers me because I really care about him and know the girl that he likes, and as his friend I really want that to work out for him. I also guess I've always had feelings for him. But I know that his flirtatiousness is ruining his chances with the girl he really wants, on top of being frustrating for me.

I would suggest just hanging out with him more for casual things other than just sex.
But you have to be careful because this is a slippery slope to suddenly realizing that perhaps you can't handle a FWB relationship because of the feelings within the friendship suddenly building. FWB relationships really best handled, in the way your doing it now, the distance helps keep things in check.
This might be a sign you'll need to end the FWB relationship because emotionally your beginning to slip.
The last time we hooked up, he made sure to tell me at the end "I want to know that you're not just a hookup. Next time, we need to spend more time together, just hanging out." But he only says these things to me post-sex. We also have a very flirty friendship in school, but it's not meaningful really, and when no one's looking.
To repeat the same thing I replied to the above response, I know that his flirtatiousness is ruining his chances with the girl he really wants, which I don't want to see happen to him because he's a genuinely nice guy.

Maybe tell him you feel as if he is using you and that you feel your friendship feels weaker than it use to.
I've told him that as a reply to the text he sent me, I asked if it would be too difficult to make me feel like a friend instead of just a hookup. He apologized, nothing special, but when he came over he was all hugs and he assured me that I mean more to him than just a hookup, but the thing is that encounter was also accompanied by sex. So while he meant it, I'd like him to express it more generally. And our friendship is strong and he's so sweet but only under certain circumstances, like when we're alone together, even when it doesn't involve sex necessarily. Because we're keeping things a secret, I'm not sure if it's unreasonable to ask for more.

to sum it up for your situation, it appears that you cannot have your cake and eat it too, so something is going to have to give. Either be his friend and go back to having those deep, meaningful conversations that you used to have, or be his booty call. It really seems that he has moved on and maybe it would be wise for you to end it and move on also.
I'm starting to think that that's what might end up happening. I'm just afraid (probably irrationally) that things won't go back to the same as before.

[Vermilion]

I don't think it unreasonable to ask for more he just needs to understand he needs to show it

[Uniquemind]

That's what I was thinking as well, but at the same time in my ideal world, things wouldn't end. I also know that sometimes, something's got to give.
I guess it also bothers me because I really care about him and know the girl that he likes, and as his friend I really want that to work out for him. I also guess I've always had feelings for him. But I know that his flirtatiousness is ruining his chances with the girl he really wants, on top of being frustrating for me.


The last time we hooked up, he made sure to tell me at the end "I want to know that you're not just a hookup. Next time, we need to spend more time together, just hanging out." But he only says these things to me post-sex. We also have a very flirty friendship in school, but it's not meaningful really, and when no one's looking.
To repeat the same thing I replied to the above response, I know that his flirtatiousness is ruining his chances with the girl he really wants, which I don't want to see happen to him because he's a genuinely nice guy.


I've told him that as a reply to the text he sent me, I asked if it would be too difficult to make me feel like a friend instead of just a hookup. He apologized, nothing special, but when he came over he was all hugs and he assured me that I mean more to him than just a hookup, but the thing is that encounter was also accompanied by sex. So while he meant it, I'd like him to express it more generally. And our friendship is strong and he's so sweet but only under certain circumstances, like when we're alone together, even when it doesn't involve sex necessarily. Because we're keeping things a secret, I'm not sure if it's unreasonable to ask for more.


I'm starting to think that that's what might end up happening. I'm just afraid (probably irrationally) that things won't go back to the same as before.



Some of this is due to the nature of keeping everything a secret.

I recommend breaking it of AND also specifically telling him everything about himself that won't appeal or help his chances with this girl that you apparently know.


I'd also end the FWB relationship BEFORE he starts pursuing her. Just so your friendship with the girl isn't put in a rock and hard place.

--

Of course he's a "nice guy" nobody wants to think of themselves as consensually being the booty call of an "asshole" or "evil person".

When you critique yourself you need to be aware of bias.


This takes me back to the thread I started that few responded too "what defines an asshole?"

Because calling someone that is purely subjective, when if you could observe that person in their entirety they might only have had a failed interaction with you in one moment that caused you to call them an asshole.


I digress.


But someone who is womanizing via deceptive means without ensuring the girl can handle the fallout of who they are, is to me an asshole.


Nobody will describe someone with deceptive personality traits as a nice person, ever.


----

I don't think it unreasonable to ask for more he just needs to understand he needs to show it

That's the problem.

They can't "show" anything publicly that's secret.

Factually she gets that, emotionally it's gnawing at her.

[Uniquemind]

Deleted due to clerical error.

[Vermilion]

That's the problem.

They can't "show" anything publicly that's secret.

Factually she gets that, emotionally it's gnawing at her.

I understand that but he could still do the late night chats

[Uniquemind]

I understand that but he could still do the late night chats

Well he kind of does. The problem is in her mind, the merit of any conversation for a friendship is negated if sex took place.

To chop it up linearly one could argue that the conversations post-sex are for the friendship, but the sex is for the sexual pleasure alone.

This could be a scenario of each gender interpreting the abstract meaning of post-sex conversations differently on different emotional levels.

That could be at play here.


It's hard because you have to see the same scenario from a female perspective and then run through the same series of events with the male perspective.


If he said she means more than a booty call. That utterance of a sentence or words tends to have more weight to it when males say things like that.

Some guys will feel they covered their base in communication once they verbally clarified a point of contention up. Gals tend to need to see more abstract meaning via actions, words are cheaper, albeit not meaningless.

[skittle]

I don't think it unreasonable to ask for more he just needs to understand he needs to show it
Thank you :)
Neither do I, especially because we've been friends for a long time and that friendship is something we've never hidden.

Some of this is due to the nature of keeping everything a secret.
I recommend breaking it of AND also specifically telling him everything about himself that won't appeal or help his chances with this girl that you apparently know.
I'd also end the FWB relationship BEFORE he starts pursuing her. Just so your friendship with the girl isn't put in a rock and hard place.

Of course he's a "nice guy" nobody wants to think of themselves as consensually being the booty call of an "asshole" or "evil person".
When you critique yourself you need to be aware of bias.
This takes me back to the thread I started that few responded too "what defines an asshole?"
Because calling someone that is purely subjective, when
if you could observe that person in their entirety they might only have had a failed interaction with you in one moment that caused you to call them an asshole.
I digress.
But someone who is womanizing via deceptive means without ensuring the girl can handle the fallout of who they are, is to me an asshole.
Nobody will describe someone with deceptive personality traits as a nice person, ever.
That's the problem.
They can't "show" anything publicly that's secret.
Factually she gets that, emotionally it's gnawing at her.
I am of course planning to end things before he starts really pursuing anyone else. The constant flirtation I was talking about before isn't really an active pursuit, at least that's what I've convinced myself. But as I've told him, it's either only me or not at all.
I'm also aware of the fact that I'm probably bias, as when I look at him objectively there are a lot of things that he does that I don't necessarily agree with. I could most definitely argue the fact that he's an asshole, but I also know him well and know that he can be genuinely sweet and caring.

Well he kind of does. The problem is in her mind, the merit of any conversation for a friendship is negated if sex took place.
To chop it up linearly one could argue that the conversations post-sex are for the friendship, but the sex is for the sexual pleasure alone.
This could be a scenario of each gender interpreting the abstract meaning of post-sex conversations differently on different emotional levels.
That could be at play here.
It's hard because you have to see the same scenario from a female perspective and then run through the same series of events with the male perspective.
If he said she means more than a booty call. That utterance of a sentence or words tends to have more weight to it when males say things like that.
Some guys will feel they covered their base in communication once they verbally clarified a point of contention up. Gals tend to need to see more abstract meaning via actions, words are cheaper, albeit not meaningless.
So just to clarify - what you're saying here is that he probably meant what he said, but doesn't feel the need to show that he means it through his actions?
Because he used to treat me like a close friend all the time. Now, while we're always friendly, that closeness is only really obvious when we're alone together and doing the FWB thing.

[Uniquemind]

Thank you :)
Neither do I, especially because we've been friends for a long time and that friendship is something we've never hidden.


I am of course planning to end things before he starts really pursuing anyone else. The constant flirtation I was talking about before isn't really an active pursuit, at least that's what I've convinced myself. But as I've told him, it's either only me or not at all.
I'm also aware of the fact that I'm probably bias, as when I look at him objectively there are a lot of things that he does that I don't necessarily agree with. I could most definitely argue the fact that he's an asshole, but I also know him well and know that he can be genuinely sweet and caring.


So just to clarify - what you're saying here is that he probably meant what he said, but doesn't feel the need to show that he means it through his actions?
Because he used to treat me like a close friend all the time. Now, while we're always friendly, that closeness is only really obvious when we're alone together and doing the FWB thing.

Yes that's what I am saying and that possibly on his end he feels he's successfully communicated the intention or meaning behind actions via words.

Remember guys have an easier time divorcing physical acts from the emotional meaning side of things, and since he's got a large history romantically, it suggests his brain is able to contain emotional events and physical events really well without breaking down and in a sense segregate them.


Girls can do that too, but typically actions carry a lot of emotional meaning that needs to be digested and processed in the brain as well as rationalized before said individual can feel comfortable making a move (I.e. To date or not to date, to move a guy/gal out of a friendship zone into a romantic zone).

Am I making sense?


Imho, I believe the type of girl who can handle a FWB relationship is able to do what guys can do regarding sex and the emotional ties that come with sex. They're able to segregate or separate the act, from emotional meaning. The moment of orgasm or sex in that moment can be passionate and loving, but when the moment passes that snapshot in time has less bearing and impact on the moments of time once the sex has passed.

It's ...episodic? For lack of a better word?

(FYI: I am low on time to respond so I might not be able to respond as swiftly in the next 3 days).

[skittle]

Yes that's what I am saying and that possibly on his end he feels he's successfully communicated the intention or meaning behind actions via words.

Remember guys have an easier time divorcing physical acts from the emotional meaning side of things, and since he's got a large history romantically, it suggests his brain is able to contain emotional events and physical events really well without breaking down and in a sense segregate them.


Girls can do that too, but typically actions carry a lot of emotional meaning that needs to be digested and processed in the brain as well as rationalized before said individual can feel comfortable making a move (I.e. To date or not to date, to move a guy/gal out of a friendship zone into a romantic zone).

Am I making sense?

(FYI: I am low on time to respond so I might not be able to respond as swiftly in the next 3 days).
Yes, that makes sense. So it might be me over-thinking things.
I still think we could stand to work on our friendship, and think that maybe the only way to do that is by confronting him about it, and a consequence will probably be ending the FWB relationship and going back to just friends. Maybe his behavior will change if he thinks he's got nothing to hide.

[Uniquemind]

Thank you :)
Neither do I, especially because we've been friends for a long time and that friendship is something we've never hidden.


I am of course planning to end things before he starts really pursuing anyone else. The constant flirtation I was talking about before isn't really an active pursuit, at least that's what I've convinced myself. But as I've told him, it's either only me or not at all.
I'm also aware of the fact that I'm probably bias, as when I look at him objectively there are a lot of things that he does that I don't necessarily agree with. I could most definitely argue the fact that he's an asshole, but I also know him well and know that he can be genuinely sweet and caring.


So just to clarify - what you're saying here is that he probably meant what he said, but doesn't feel the need to show that he means it through his actions?
Because he used to treat me like a close friend all the time. Now, while we're always friendly, that closeness is only really obvious when we're alone together and doing the FWB thing.

Yes, that makes sense. So it might be me over-thinking things.
I still think we could stand to work on our friendship, and think that maybe the only way to do that is by confronting him about it, and a consequence will probably be ending the FWB relationship and going back to just friends. Maybe his behavior will change if he thinks he's got nothing to hide.


Sure, don't sell yourself short.

But confront him in a way that explains in detail how the friendship prior to sex entering the picture has changed how you guys spent time as friends, no now not having those low-key moments.

It might be a concept he only understands the edges of, to which sharp and clear articulation is necessary.


Regardless I think if he really wants to pursue that other 3rd girl he's got to end it.

I do wonder if he has a sex addiction though which is holding him back.

[skittle]

Sure, don't sell yourself short.

But confront him in a way that explains in detail how the friendship prior to sex entering the picture has changed how you guys spent time as friends, no now not having those low-key moments.

It might be a concept he only understands the edges of, to which sharp and clear articulation is necessary.


Regardless I think if he really wants to pursue that other 3rd girl he's got to end it.

I do wonder if he has a sex addiction though which is holding him back.

Thanks so much for the advice!

[Uniquemind]

Thanks so much for the advice!

Thanks, some of my advice is spot on but for others it falls flat.

I'd appreciate a PM once you have 100+ here, if you use my advice to tell me how things went.

(I.e. You can send out private messages until you have made 100+ posts in these forums.)

Thanks.

[Zachary G]

That's what I was thinking as well, but at the same time in my ideal world, things wouldn't end. I also know that sometimes, something's got to give.
I guess it also bothers me because I really care about him and know the girl that he likes, and as his friend I really want that to work out for him. I also guess I've always had feelings for him. But I know that his flirtatiousness is ruining his chances with the girl he really wants, on top of being frustrating for me.


The last time we hooked up, he made sure to tell me at the end "I want to know that you're not just a hookup. Next time, we need to spend more time together, just hanging out." But he only says these things to me post-sex. We also have a very flirty friendship in school, but it's not meaningful really, and when no one's looking.
To repeat the same thing I replied to the above response, I know that his flirtatiousness is ruining his chances with the girl he really wants, which I don't want to see happen to him because he's a genuinely nice guy.


I've told him that as a reply to the text he sent me, I asked if it would be too difficult to make me feel like a friend instead of just a hookup. He apologized, nothing special, but when he came over he was all hugs and he assured me that I mean more to him than just a hookup, but the thing is that encounter was also accompanied by sex. So while he meant it, I'd like him to express it more generally. And our friendship is strong and he's so sweet but only under certain circumstances, like when we're alone together, even when it doesn't involve sex necessarily. Because we're keeping things a secret, I'm not sure if it's unreasonable to ask for more.


I'm starting to think that that's what might end up happening. I'm just afraid (probably irrationally) that things won't go back to the same as before.

Its a chance you are going to have to take in order to find out.

[skittle]

Its a chance you are going to have to take in order to find out.

Just a little update - I spoke to him today, in person.
He clarified things about the younger girls, said that he'd never do anything without telling me about it, but even then he said that he wouldn't want to anyways.
It just made me happy though that we could talk for a few hours just as friends, without anything else. Also, I told him that I'm not sure the FWB thing is a good idea anymore because of the other girl he's interested in, and explained how I feel about things to him. He was very understanding, saying that he completely gets it for now, and that he still wants us to hang out without sex. That's definitely what I wanted to hear.
Also, we agreed that we'd reconsider things again if we're ever both single and not looking :)
Overall, I'm pretty happy.

[Uniquemind]

Just a little update - I spoke to him today, in person.
He clarified things about the younger girls, said that he'd never do anything without telling me about it, but even then he said that he wouldn't want to anyways.
It just made me happy though that we could talk for a few hours just as friends, without anything else. Also, I told him that I'm not sure the FWB thing is a good idea anymore because of the other girl he's interested in, and explained how I feel about things to him. He was very understanding, saying that he completely gets it for now, and that he still wants us to hang out without sex. That's definitely what I wanted to hear.
Also, we agreed that we'd reconsider things again if we're ever both single and not looking :)
Overall, I'm pretty happy.


That's really the best possible outcome. I'm happy for you guys.