Homosexuality can be cured?

[NeuroTiger]

http://www.20min.ch/ro/news/romandie/story/L-homosexualite-se-guerit--selon-l-ev-que-de-Sion-24532053

It's an article in French which I'll translate the important parts of it. Sion will host the Pride romande 2015 in a month time(13th June) and these were the words from the bishop of Sion.

According to the bishop of Sion, Jean-Marie Lovey:
"...by nature, the human being is a sexual being(male-female). And one is fully a human being only if he lives by this complementarity(...) some psychological cures do exist. Homosexuality can be cured."

Then somebody asked him whether for him 'homosexuality is a disease'. To which he answered:
"No, it's a weakness from nature; to prove it, there is a real suffering by the person living with it and his environment. But that does not take anything away from the humanity of the homosexual nor to his dignity."

[Vermilion]

I think this is crap, I strongly believe with all my heart that it's not a choice that it's natural to the person. It's shit like this that makes gay/bi people look like they choose, I expect you choose to expect what you are but not choose to be gay/bi or anything else that isn't consider the norm.

[Gwen]

His words won't change anyone who is sitting on the fence or someone on either side to change a thought in their mind. Drivel to bring Christianity another couple years back, he tried to be diplomatic at least but he just fell face first on that. He isn't contributing to a compassionate middle ground but instead helping add fuel to a fire that shouldn't be around in the modern age. Religious figures talking about homosexuality is as purposely shit stirring as bringing up politics at the dinner table. If it isn't a disease or illness then it doesn't need to be 'cured', if you can't accept it yourself then do as Jesus did and show infinite compassion rather than offering ill-conceived advice or 'solutions'.

[Vlerchan]

Where did Bishop Lovey get his neuroscience degree from again?

[Hudor]

I read it as Bishop Lovely at first. Fortunately there's not the l in the name, because he doesn't seem lovely at all.

It's crappy as usual. I have a problem with powerful figures who have a sizeable reach and use it to spread blasphemies without any reason or backing to support such claims. Of course he being heterosexual (apparently) knows all about homosexuality and we couldn't have a better person telling us what's true. This is the sort of thing which makes people think there's a choice and millions of gay children die every year not able to make that choice which they apparently should be able to. -_-

[Dying Ember]

Utter bullshit, to sum it up

[Dreamer98]

OMG . O.o

It would be better to that bishop to find cure for pedophiles , because , it seems that bishop forgot that many priests are part of them .

[Microcosm]

Homosexuality isn't something that needs a "cure." It isn't a bad thing and doesn't cause anyone harm so these religious people really need to get off everyone's backs.

[CosmicNoodle]

Ha.....

[fairmaiden]

I firmly believe that almost all people who identify as gay are born that way (lady gaga reference??). I don't think it's possible to cure it. People who are gay are not a danger to society and homosexuality isn't bad, so I don't really know why people want to ''cure'' it.

[Typhlosion]

I don't honestly care about who said what in the OP. It's... unfit to talk about a "cure" for homosexuality, as if it were an illness (newsflash: it isn't), but at the same time, why must we exclude from our minds the idea that such a change may be possible? We'll never know until we try out. In Brazil studying homosexuality treatment is illegal - what good does that give us? There's a huge difference between society accepting homosexuality and the person themself accepting. I do not see why someone shouldn't be able to seek help for an issue that troubles them.

[Uniquemind]

We are a long way from even understanding the science behind attraction and are only now exploring gender identity versus sexual orientation.

The more I learn the more I am convinced the human brain and body are more machine like, and thus programmable in theory.

I'm sure everything about a human can be edited if technology gets that advanced.

Memories could be destroyed with targeted brain tissue destruction, identities could be created and erased.

So who knows, all I know is this guy is probably a quack and is probably trying to squeeze as much economic value about of such comments out of those who are or whose families are ashamed for who they are in this moment in time.

[ImCoolBeans]

TBH I didn't even click the link, and am not going to. It's BS and the fact that a Bishop is the person articulating this only affirms it. The word "cure" also implies that homosexuality is an illness or a handicap, which it is not. The Bishop's answer of "No, it's a weakness from nature; to prove it, there is a real suffering by the person living with it and his environment. But that does not take anything away from the humanity of the homosexual nor to his dignity." is not only offensive, but is also completely false. I know plenty of heterosexuals who have worse or more messed up sexual relationships than any homosexual person I know. Also, not to mention how biased his side of the argument is. How can he scientifically back up his claim if he's chalking it up to God at the end of the day?

[Vlerchan]

[...] what good does that give us?
I would imagine the point is to stop people from attempting to sell 'cures' to gay Roman Catholics.

You see in the US, where it's not illegal, all sorts of quacks selling cure.

[Deactivated]

Homosexuality is not a disease or condition, therefore it cannot be 'cured'. Even if we could change a person's sexuality, why would we? There's no harm in being attracted to the same sex, and it's found in almost all social creatures, which hints at a possible advantage to being gay; the gay uncle hypothesis, for example. Also, saying someone is a full human being depending on who or what they're attracted to is just rubbish. Being gay doesn't make a person any more or less human. This is something that reminds of Hitler.

[BlueFoot]

I think this is crap, I strongly believe with all my heart that it's not a choice that it's natural to the person. It's shit like this that makes gay/bi people look like they choose, I expect you choose to expect what you are but not choose to be gay/bi or anything else that isn't consider the norm.

Not trying to say anything upsetting here but he didn't say it was a choice he said it was human nature, so he was saying that most are born with it.

[Aajj333]

This is kinda homophobic and there is nothing to cure.

[Lovelife090994]

Is conversion therapy banned yet in America? Oh wait... It's not... We're doomed to be a land of hatred.

[Arkansasguy]

http://www.20min.ch/ro/news/romandie/story/L-homosexualite-se-guerit--selon-l-ev-que-de-Sion-24532053

It's an article in French which I'll translate the important parts of it. Sion will host the Pride romande 2015 in a month time(13th June) and these were the words from the bishop of Sion.

According to the bishop of Sion, Jean-Marie Lovey:
"...by nature, the human being is a sexual being(male-female). And one is fully a human being only if he lives by this complementarity(...) some psychological cures do exist. Homosexuality can be cured."

Then somebody asked him whether for him 'homosexuality is a disease'. To which he answered:
"No, it's a weakness from nature; to prove it, there is a real suffering by the person living with it and his environment. But that does not take anything away from the humanity of the homosexual nor to his dignity."

There have been people who have been relieved of this temptation.

[Trickythetiger]

There have been people who have been relieved of this temptation.
Then they were never gay in the first place.

It's complete B.S. that people come up with these ideas and plain annoying.
There's no cure for homosexuality, people are born into who they are.

[Arkansasguy]

Then they were never gay in the first place.

It's complete B.S. that people come up with these ideas and plain annoying.
There's no cure for homosexuality, people are born into who they are.

No true fag fallacy (http://www.logicalfallacies.info/presumption/no-true-scotsman/)

[Trickythetiger]

No true fag fallacy (http://www.logicalfallacies.info/presumption/no-true-scotsman/)
What is your point?

[Microcosm]

What is your point?

It was said that someone is born gay and, thus, cannot choose whether or not they are gay.

The other user refuted this by saying that people have chosen to stop being gay, and have succeeded in doing so. This would outright disprove the claim that "no one can choose whether or not they are gay."

You then responded by saying "they were never gay in the first place." The reason you said that was to deny that the "decision to stop being gay" claim was actually a counter-example which refutes the original "no choice in homosexuality" claim, which it is a counter-example for which would refute the "no choice in homosexuality" claim. Therefore, there is a choice as to whether you will be gay or not. However, you covered up this reason for stating that by saying "Well that just means he was never gay in the first place!" Which is circular logic altogether.

It is, as Arkansasguy's link originally stated, a Presumption Fallacy, which means that you are simply assuming that he was never gay in the first place in a presumptuous attempt to deny the fact that he provided a valid counter-example that disproves the "no choice" argument.

[Babs]

lmao. Some people are grossly ignorant.

[Trickythetiger]

lmao. Some people are grossly ignorant.
No, I just didn't understand the context. Sorry.

[Exocet]

Sure,just send those that are to Daesh ! :yes:

[Microcosm]

No, I just didn't understand the context. Sorry.

I'm not sure she was talking about you. If she was, then that was kind of uncalled for. I wasn't trying to like put you down or anything too. Since he didn't respond to it, I just went ahead and gave it a go. :thumbsup:

[Babs]

No, I just didn't understand the context. Sorry.

I was talking about Bishop Lovey.

[Vlerchan]

The other user refuted this by saying that people have chosen to stop being gay, and have succeeded in doing so.
Some people might have chosen to stop pursuing members of the same sex. This does not mean the person might not still be homosexual, and their original pursuit of members of the same sex might does not mean the person might have been homosexual in the first place either.

In order to even begin to demonstrate this claim someone needs to first demonstrate what factors underlie same-sex attraction, which as far as I am aware there's no scientific consensus on, and then demonstrate the extent to which willpower can overcome these factors. From the level of evidence of exists, i.e., the strong biological basis, I would imagine that there's a good chance that people cannot just choose to be attracted to the same sex or not.

[Microcosm]

Some people might have chosen to stop pursuing members of the same sex. This does not mean the person might not still be homosexual, and their original pursuit of members of the same sex might does not mean the person might have been homosexual in the first place either.

In order to even begin to demonstrate this claim someone needs to first demonstrate what factors underlie same-sex attraction, which as far as I am aware there's no scientific consensus on, and then demonstrate the extent to which willpower can overcome these factors. From the level of evidence of exists, i.e., the strong biological basis, I would imagine that there's a good chance that people cannot just choose to be attracted to the same sex or not.

I think it depends on what influences them to stop approaching the same sex in that way. Like, if it's a strong religious reason then it's likely that it will be real and they'll force themselves to stop. If it is a weak personal decision, then they might only stick with it for a short period. It just depends.

Still, though, her argument was still based on an assumption.

[DoodleSnap]

There is no objective "right" or "wrong", so therefore homosexuality simply is, with no context. It exists, that we can be sure of, but to suggest that it is inherently "wrong" or flawed, is pure ignorance. It has certain characteristics, but one has to give a context and reasoning behind these characteristics to explain why it is "right" (upholding their concept), or "wrong" (not upholding their concept). If one takes the view that the ultimate function of humanity is to reproduce, then the characteristics of homosexuality make it "wrong" (destroying the concept). However, being someone who thinks that only focusing on biological reproduction is sad and restrictive, I take no issue with homosexuality. It is neither "right", nor "wrong", without context. It's all in the perspective, people.
As for 'curing' it, I call bullshit.
Most people reside somewhere in the sexuality spectrum, and it's pretty damn rare for someone to be completely one side or the other (if you want to identify as one side, that is fine). It's a deeply ingrained part of humanity, and has come from thousands of years of sexual instincts being catered to in a non-reproductive manner. Just animals doing what has to be done. Any 'curing' would be repressing thoughts and behaviours which are part of a person's mind, and thus would be damaging to their happiness. Repressing and hating and fearing are damaging things, especially when applied to something so instinctual.

[mattsmith48]

http://www.20min.ch/ro/news/romandie/story/L-homosexualite-se-guerit--selon-l-ev-que-de-Sion-24532053

It's an article in French which I'll translate the important parts of it. Sion will host the Pride romande 2015 in a month time(13th June) and these were the words from the bishop of Sion.

According to the bishop of Sion, Jean-Marie Lovey:
"...by nature, the human being is a sexual being(male-female). And one is fully a human being only if he lives by this complementarity(...) some psychological cures do exist. Homosexuality can be cured."

Then somebody asked him whether for him 'homosexuality is a disease'. To which he answered:
"No, it's a weakness from nature; to prove it, there is a real suffering by the person living with it and his environment. But that does not take anything away from the humanity of the homosexual nor to his dignity."

That guy needs to stop pretending to know anything about science and trying to be a doctor and go back to raping kids and brainwash people.