What is beauty? Not what society thinks it is!

[WanderingHeart]

I'm going to go off into a ramble:

It's everywhere. TV, magazines, billboard, you name it. It's been around for quite a while and it's sickening. Women are not sexual objects.
First off, we have the expectations that society has set on girls. These expectations include how the girl looks and how she must act. Teenage girls are going through a time in their lives where they are growing physically and mentally. And it doesn't help when they have to focus so much about how they look. They have to change themselves to try and fit in with the definition of beauty set by society. Society should NOT have a definition on what makes a girl beautiful (guys too, actually).

Let's look at Disney for a moment. We have our lovely Disney princesses: Cinderella, Snow White, Belle, etc. And who is the directed audience for Disney movies? Children. And who is the majority audience for Disney princess movies? Little girls. And its not just Disney, any princess movie! But because Disney is so known, I'm using it as an example. Have you ever noticed how small the waists of princesses are in these movies? This is subconsciously building a definition of what makes a girl beautiful in their minds.

We are growing teenagers. When we're adults, the world will be in OUR hands! And we all need to work together to create a new definition of beauty. And what should that be? There shouldn't be one. We need to teach each other and future generations that beauty exists in every shape, size, and colour. We need to teach them that nobody defines your beauty except yourself!

Idk, let's have a discussion on this and related topics :metal:

[Miserabilia]

Society doesn't have views, people have views. A society reflects the views of influencial people. Disney princesses are not realistic, but neither are disney men and animals. They are caricatures of childlike feminity. Having small bodies and large eyes represents youth rather than a standard for adult women to look like.

And ofcourse women have expectations on what to look like through media representation, but women of all healthy body types are represented in popular media. I personaly see no problem with fat women not being represented, because they represent an image that is unhealthier and more damaging than thin women.
Not to mention, this all applies to both sexes.

[Microcosm]

I think this partially has to do with how people strongly idolize celebrities in today's society. Both young men and young women do this. They're trying to find a sort of template for their looks and actions. Some celebrities just dress and act carelessly and these are the celebrities that are the most famous among today's young teens. Therefore, today's teens feel obligated to act and dress carelessly so they can be "cool" like the celebrities.

[Uniquemind]

Well I think the definition of beauty is slowly changing from thin = beautiful > To healthy = beautiful.

And people are catching onto the fact that even professional models have photoshop used on them by the time ads hit the internet or hard media.

Disney's most popular female characters now are Elsa and Anna from Frozen, a movie that does not have the main focus around romantic love in the plot.

[Typhlosion]

Well then what in the hell is it? You can't simply say "this isn't what it's largely accepted to be defined as" like that. I don't get it. Are you telling us that a collective idea of beauty does not exist? Or that it shouldn't exist? Are people not allowed to have opinions anymore? Or we can, but we shouldn't verbalize them?

Why shouldn't we be able to verbalize what we think?

[fairmaiden]

I think the main thing that all children should be taught is; they're beautiful. Yes, there shouldn't be specifications on what beauty entails, but unfortunately I don't think that we as a society will ever be able to change that. It's not easy at all to change the world's perceptions of beauty and those perceptions of beauty vary so much that, well; if you're a part of a Kenyan tribe for example, the standard of beauty there is much much different to the standard of beauty in the UK for example, and the examples go on and on and on.

Children of all genders, races, sizes, and shapes should be taught that they are beautiful no matter what they look like. Their self-esteem should be brought up before it can even be brought down. The definition of ''beauty'' is so blurred that I don't even know how to properly answer this question ):

There is someone out there for everybody; someone does/will love you, and whether that is a friend, a family member(s) or a future boyfriend/girlfriend.

I know Disney characters have unrealistic bodily proportions and look really dainty and elegant, however children should be taught to differentiate between reality and fiction.

It's annoying how people are constantly put down because of their looks, when in reality people shouldn't be so shallow and should be able to fall in love with the looks + the personality of a person.

[Left Now]

Beauty is in the eyes of the one who sees,so everything is beautiful.

[Abhorrence]

I think that "society" consists of more people complaining about society than it consists of people actually doing wrong.

[Microcosm]

Beauty is in the eyes of the one who sees,so everything is beautiful.

I can agree with this. It's all opinionated, really. Some people think dressing their 6-year-old daughter up in skimpy outfits for a beauty pagent is beautiful, and then some people think covering up almost all of a woman's skin is beautiful. Personally, I wish we didn't care so much about that. There is beauty in the mind, true beauty in thoughts, but in the body, beauty is all just fabricated.

[Left Now]

I can agree with this. It's all opinionated, really. Some people think dressing their 6-year-old daughter up in skimpy outfits for a beauty pagent is beautiful, and then some people think covering up almost all of a woman's skin is beautiful. Personally, I wish we didn't care so much about that. There is beauty in the mind, true beauty in thoughts, but in the body, beauty is all just fabricated.

Definitions.We humans have made definitions because unlimited understanding is difficult for us;unfortunately.

[Uniquemind]

Here's a question:

For this entire thread have we been interchanging the meaning and definition of beauty and sexy?


Unless we say and act upon giving and receiving sexual activity freely and unbiasedly and all individuals have equal opportunity to do so with us, as we with them....we're liars.

The truth is some people are more appealing than others either for outward looks and/or their personalities or a combo of both.

Where society goes wrong is by implying that if you aren't at "the top" you're "less than" which isn't true.

[phuckphace]

leave it to the SJWs to misappropriate yet another serious issue and turn it into a feminist gurlpower hashtag campaign, with society and men being the usual culprit

http://i.imgur.com/sZ3mmIm.jpg

the sexual objectification of women that you see everywhere is just another ugly facet of our consumerist culture and its addiction to growth. pressure to consume means everything must be exploited for profit, and that includes sex. this was one of the contributing factors to the start of the "sexual revolution" which by the way, ended in abject disaster. women are now exploited and objectified more often and shamelessly in 2015 than they were in 1915 or 1815, maximum irony right there.

also,
>fat
>healthy

I realize the media portrays thinness as a sexual ideal rather than a health ideal, but that's beside the point. obesity is a medical condition that contributes to secondary health problems and lowered quality of life.

[Uniquemind]

leave it to the SJWs to misappropriate yet another serious issue and turn it into a feminist gurlpower hashtag campaign, with society and men being the usual culprit

image (http://i.imgur.com/sZ3mmIm.jpg)

the sexual objectification of women that you see everywhere is just another ugly facet of our consumerist culture and its addiction to growth. pressure to consume means everything must be exploited for profit, and that includes sex. this was one of the contributing factors to the start of the "sexual revolution" which by the way, ended in abject disaster. women are now exploited and objectified more often and shamelessly in 2015 than they were in 1915 or 1815, maximum irony right there.

also,
>fat
>healthy

I realize the media portrays thinness as a sexual ideal rather than a health ideal, but that's beside the point. obesity is a medical condition that contributes to secondary health problems and lowered quality of life.


Agreed.

And as I've said before I think that society is changing slowly.


What is considered sexy or beautiful for women especially but men too ever increasingly, is being healthy and well versed in a variety of different foods.


Being fat or thin, are vague terms now and more of our generation and even our parents are starting to adopt other concepts of health such as: probiotics, brisk moderate exercise over strenuous workouts that hurt our knees, organic fruits and vegetables and beans, a 60% reduced meat diet but not elimination of it.


Fast food and processed food elimination from our diets, no chips, and white breads.

We are starting to believe that healthy is beautiful and sexy and will produce a high quality life in all areas.

Science also backs this up for once.

[Vlerchan]

women are now exploited and objectified more often and shamelessly in 2015 than they were in 1915 or 1815, maximum irony right there.
First, I don't see an inherent wrong in objectification. In order to engage as authentic agents in our own societies it's required we engage in self-objectification, and that's based in wider objectification of others (i.e., I determine if I look good in this shirt, with reference to societal standards, through the lens of my own sexual-orientation). It is through this that we unlock our capabilities for self-expression.

The actual issue is when objectification becomes all-consuming, and we fail to recognise the other qualities of people. However, in meritocratic-orientated economics this is unsustainable. There's also the issue of all-consuming self-objectification (this emphasis on the person a lead-on from all-consuming objectification), which can lead to mental health issues such as depression and eating disorders, so some form of social justice-support is required. However, a balance does need to be maintained between this and combating other issues like obesity.

Second, the idea that woman are more exploited in the modern times has no basis to it. People might argue it's better a slave to a husband than to the capitalist order, but before woman's liberation in the public-economic sphere woman were slaves in both. Their labour just went unrecognised in the public records because it was conducted in the home. So, woman worked to subsidise capitalist relations so men could get rich, a much greater form of exploitation. If it seems like woman are more exploited in modern times, it's because it's just a lot more explicit (eg: the commercialisation of sex).

---

I also don't agree that all people are beautiful because beautiful can't exist without reference to non-beautiful.

[soundtrack, because it's been ages.] (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Unnh0T2Ftro)

[Sugaree]

I'm going to go off into a ramble:

It's everywhere. TV, magazines, billboard, you name it. It's been around for quite a while and it's sickening. Women are not sexual objects.

Men are not sexual objects either. What's your point here? If you point out to me a billboard or magazine ad for Victoria's Secret, I can point you to an advertisement for A&F that has men in similar "sexually objectified" positions.

First off, we have the expectations that society has set on girls. These expectations include how the girl looks and how she must act. Teenage girls are going through a time in their lives where they are growing physically and mentally. And it doesn't help when they have to focus so much about how they look. They have to change themselves to try and fit in with the definition of beauty set by society. Society should NOT have a definition on what makes a girl beautiful (guys too, actually).

What expectations does society have for girls? Please point out specific examples. Society does not determine expectations. People determine what their expectations are for themselves. Society is simply a collective that has no bearing on the individual.

Let's look at Disney for a moment. We have our lovely Disney princesses: Cinderella, Snow White, Belle, etc. And who is the directed audience for Disney movies? Children. And who is the majority audience for Disney princess movies? Little girls. And its not just Disney, any princess movie! But because Disney is so known, I'm using it as an example. Have you ever noticed how small the waists of princesses are in these movies? This is subconsciously building a definition of what makes a girl beautiful in their minds.

Oh boy, the old Disney argument. Congratulations on telling us that we already know that Disney princess movies are targeted toward adolescent girls. Now let's get to the real issue: correlation is not causation. Just because a little girl sees "Frozen" or any other Disney princess movie and begins a childhood idolization of one of the characters does not mean they idolize them for their looks and physical attributes. Disney movies always make an emphasis on moral values over physical attractiveness. They only use physical attractiveness to gain the viewer's attention. You also have to be aware that, at the time movies like Cinderella came out, many women looked like that. Artists only draw what they see, not visualize something they believe to be the "perfect" form of any particular subject.

We are growing teenagers. When we're adults, the world will be in OUR hands! And we all need to work together to create a new definition of beauty. And what should that be? There shouldn't be one. We need to teach each other and future generations that beauty exists in every shape, size, and colour. We need to teach them that nobody defines your beauty except yourself!

Oh please, this is ridiculous. If you're saying I should be accepting of the notion that I should see fat people as beautiful, then that's complete nonsense. Being fat is not beautiful, it's concerning. When I see someone who is overweight and gorging on huge amounts of food, I feel bad for them, because they either can't control themselves or have some sort of medical condition(s) that prevent them from controlling their weight. That's not beautiful. When you see people who are so massive that they can't even move an inch or do anything other than lay in bed, that's just fucking sad. This is why we need to enforce the idea that being obese is not a healthy lifestyle. That's not to say that being nothing more than skin and bones is healthy, but people need to realize that there is a median weight for every size of person. You don't have to be as thin as a stick or fatter than a whale, but you do need to show that you can take care of yourself and not rely on others to reinforce the stupid thought that you are beautiful because of your love handles.

The fact of the matter is this: beauty is always in the eyes of the beholder. There are plenty of people that I know who would not go out with a person who is the size and shape of my girlfriend. I accept that because it's a matter of personal taste. However, if you are looking at people based on their proportions, you are not looking for true beauty. True beauty resides in personality, not the person's body shape. True beauty is a person's ability to sympathize, show compassion, and treating others with a common respect. That is beauty.

[WanderingHeart]

Lol this was a fun discussion. And no, not everything I said in OP was my opinion. I said those things to see what you guys have to say on it.

[Microcosm]

Lol this was a fun discussion. And no, not everything I said in OP was my opinion. I said those things to see what you guys have to say on it.

Don't feel too bad about it. Just make sure you make it clear that it isn't necessarily your opinion next time in the original post. I've made that mistake before. You just have to be careful what you post in ROTW and make sure you're prepared to back up your claims.

[WanderingHeart]

Don't feel too bad about it. Just make sure you make it clear that it isn't necessarily your opinion next time in the original post. I've made that mistake before. You just have to be careful what you post in ROTW and make sure you're prepared to back up your claims.

Oh, right. That's my mistake, I apologise :)

You guys all got so mad at me :'DDDD

[Microcosm]

Oh, right. That's my mistake, I apologise :)

You guys all got so mad at me :'DDDD

People get pretty... Passionate in ROTW.

If you'd like, I can go ahead and lock the thread, no harm done.

[WanderingHeart]

People get pretty... Passionate in ROTW.

If you'd like, I can go ahead and lock the thread, no harm done.

I don't mind if you lock it, sure. Thanks.

[Microcosm]

:locked:

Thread has been locked at the request of the OP.