The Second Amendment

[Uranus]

(If this post offends you....oops)

I just can't see why so many people believe that guns should be made illegal. It just hurts my brain to actually see someone believe such a thing. I personally do not think guns should be outlawed. I've seen so many people say that guns...kill people. NO THEY DON'T!!!! Guns, are not the problem. Not nearly the problem. But why take away guns? Do people honestly believe that once guns are outlawed everything will be safe? Well, no it wont be. Because once you take something valuable from good, innocent people, only criminals will have it. Because they don't care about the law. Once guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns. So who is going to stop them? The police? This is America. We shouldn't have to deal with such BS. We should be able to protect ourselves, without having to cower behind a man with a badge. Because there are more criminals, than there are police. Also, what's the deal with buildings having a "No Guns Allowed" sign? It's honestly a mistake waiting to happen. I'm not talking about schools,government buildings, but every day buildings such as WalMart, a Bank, a theatre. If guns aren't allowed, then good, honest citizens would not have any guns with them. Meaning, a group of criminals would choose that location, because they know that there are no guns there. It's not a "No guns allowed" Sign. It's an invitation for "Come in and rob is! We're defenseless!!!" Now if that location allowed guns, they would have a much lower rate, of criminal activity.

It's almost like people who believe guns should be illegal, are saying the only good people are police and the military. (For guns at least)

If anyone would like to make a point, why they should be illegal, please do.

[SethfromMI]

Guns don't kill people, death kills people. Ask your doctor, it's a medical fact

[Uranus]

Guns don't kill people, death kills people. Ask your doctor, it's a medical fact

Lol so so so true. Actually people should be more worried about bullets. But I honestly don't believe that guns should be outlawed. I fully support The Second Amendment, and will not give up my weapons.

[Vlerchan]

Guns, are not the problem. Not nearly the problem.
Data from a US mortality follow-back survey were analyzed to determine whether having a firearm in the home increases the risk of a violent death in the home and whether risk varies by storage practice, type of gun, or number of guns in the home. Those persons with guns in the home were at greater risk than those without guns in the home of dying from a homicide in the home (adjusted odds ratio = 1.9, 95% confidence interval: 1.1, 3.4). They were also at greater risk of dying from a firearm homicide, but risk varied by age and whether the person was living with others at the time of death. The risk of dying from a suicide in the home was greater for males in homes with guns than for males without guns in the home (adjusted odds ratio = 10.4, 95% confidence interval: 5.8, 18.9). Persons with guns in the home were also more likely to have died from suicide committed with a firearm than from one committed by using a different method (adjusted odds ratio = 31.1, 95% confidence interval: 19.5, 49.6). Results show that regardless of storage practice, type of gun, or number of firearms in the home, having a gun in the home was associated with an increased risk of firearm homicide and firearm suicide in the home.

http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/content/160/10/929.full

Do people honestly believe that once guns are outlawed everything will be safe?
The argument posits that things will be safer.

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I'm also not going to deal with the rest. I just want you to provide verifiable evidence that places are safer with widescale legalisation.

I also don't support outlawing guns just so we're clear.

[Babs]

Do I think guns should be outlawed? No. But I do think better gun control is very important. The whole "guns don't kill people, people do" mindset irks me because some people wouldn't have killed anyone if they didn't have a gun. Certain people should not have guns.

[Danny_boi 16]

I don't think guns should be outlawed. I think that they shouldn't exist. But that's a liberal hippie pipe dream that will never happen. Like you said, guns don't kill people. I believe in that. People kill people. Therefore, we need restrictions on gun ownership. For some reason people don't like comprehensive background checks. I just don't think mentally unstable people and felons should guns, but that's just me. But another problem isn't the guns themselves but the ammunition. I don't think the average Joe needs high powered bullets, or body armor piercing bullets. That's just for safety for the officer, that risk their lives day in and out to protect us. They should worry about getting criminals off the streets, not crazy criminals with Kevlar piercing bullets in their pocket. As for the actual second amendment, I think it should be amended. That is idea by John Paul Stevens, who served as an associate justice of the Supreme Court from 1975 to 2010. The 2nd amendment now says: A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.. In most states the well regulated militia is a unit written into law in case the federal government becomes a threat to the people of the several states. This unit is called the National Guard. To me, a couple of guys in a Ram 1500 with AR15s are not a well regulated militia.

[Miserabilia]

Killers with guns can easily get guns because they're legal, whether bought or borrowed.
Guns kill people.
Yes, there will still be violence and crime and murder.
But hey, look at this;

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0d/World_map_of_civilian_gun_ownership_-_2nd_color_scheme.svg

There are many countries similar to the US that don't have the same gun legality, and there's definetlely a lot of observable differences (data) that can be linked to it.
The reason it hurts your brain is because you're used to it; taking something away and changing is always harder than keeping it, that doesn't neccecarily make it bad.

[CreativeUsername]

I do not believe that guns should be banned. I do believe there should be stricter laws about gun ownership. Like many before me have said, almost anybody can buy a gun. A criminal can buy a gun legally. A simple background check would at least help with the problem. Why do people object to it.

[thatcountrykid]

Buildings can't say you can't have a gun while you're here. They can make you leave but can't take it from you while in there.

A vast majority of not all city and state police and sheriffs departments have said they won't encorce gun control.

[Vlerchan]

A vast majority of not all city and state police and sheriffs departments have said they won't encorce gun control.
If police officers aren't willing to do their jobs then they should be relieved of them.

[tasminsmith]

in the dunblaine massacre a man walked into a school and killed lots of young children, yes the gun didn't kill them but had they been illeagal it wouldn't have happened

also there is less gun crime in England where guns are illeagal without a proper firearms license

and those who say extensive background checks should be done, Thomas Hamilton who was the guy in the shootings at the school had a relatively clean background so it would not have done anything

[Dortmund]

I've always been sceptical of this personally.

Correct that guns can work as a deterrent but it seems that just about anybody can get their hands on a gun these days. A day doesn't seem to go by where we don't hear of a story of someone being killed for little or no reason in America.

Guns aren't legal in vast places of Europe and quite obviously gun crime is much much lower. Had America been brought up with more knowledge that their guns are a privilege rather than a human right I believe that the problem wouldn't be as bad.

[thatcountrykid]

If police officers aren't willing to do their jobs then they should be relieved of them.

Up holding and defending the constitution of the United states is their job.

[Vlerchan]

Up holding and defending the constitution of the United states is their job.
Upholding the law is. The law is defined in legislation and the constitution and interpreted in the courts:

Until the courts over-rule gun control legislation as being unconstitutional then the police must uphold it. It's not their job to decide on the judge's behalf.

[thatcountrykid]

Upholding the law is. The law is defined in legislation and the constitution and interpreted in the courts:

Until the courts over-rule gun control legislation as being unconstitutional then the police must uphold it. It's not their job to decide on the judge's behalf.

Haha no you're not I derstanding. They won't enforce it because they know that it's wrong. Gun control will never happen and police will not enforce it. They've already openly stated that. The day gun control happens the government will be knee deep in civil disobedience. They'll have to call in government troops do to it and even a majority of soldiers said they wouldn't.

[Vlerchan]

They won't enforce it because they know that it's wrong.
I understand:

Police officers are allowing their opinion to get in the way of doing their job. These police officers should be relieved of their job.

Gun control will never happen and police will not enforce it.
Gun control is already happening and police officers enforce it.

The day gun control happens the government will be knee deep in civil disobedience. They'll have to call in government troops do to it and even a majority of soldiers said they wouldn't.
I think you are misunderstanding and equating control with prohibition.

[thatcountrykid]

I understand:

Police officers are allowing their opinion to get in the way of doing their job. These police officers should be relieved of their job.


Gun control is already happening and police officers enforce it.


I think you are misunderstanding and equating control with prohibition.

So this time you're actually supporting police violating the rights of others?

And how do propose we fire nearly the entire police force in America?

[Vlerchan]

So this time you're actually supporting police violating the rights of others?
If the legislature strikes down a certain right - and the courts uphold that decision - then the police aren't violating a right.

And how do propose we fire nearly the entire police force in America?
I would fire every 10th opposer (in alphabetical order) on the first day of each month.
In the intervening month between each firing I would hire a replacement willing to do her job.

Of course since the US government isn't going to prohibit firearms - and I don't support them doing so - I don't expect this to ever need happen.

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I would also appreciate if you would quote the study which claims that most police officers would stop doing their jobs if the government made this decision.

[Babs]

A vast majority of not all city and state police and sheriffs departments have said they won't encorce gun control.

Seeing as how you own a gun and got all that police stuff in your posts/signature, I'm not surprised you agree with them not enforcing the law.

It just seems like a stupid idea for police to blatantly not enforce the law. And any police officer who does that is probably a terrible policeman.

[thatcountrykid]

A police officer protecting the rights of free citizens is doing his job.



If the legislature strikes down a certain right - and the courts uphold that decision - then the police aren't violating a right.


I would fire every 10th opposer in alphabetical order each month.
In the intervening month between each firing I would hire a replacement willing to do her job.

Of course since the US government isn't going to prohibit firearms - and I don't support them doing so - I don't expect this to ever need happen.

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I would also appreciate if you would quote the study which claims that most police officers would stop doing their jobs if the government made this decision.

There is no study that they would stop doing their jobs. Only continuing to do their job in the face of an illegal ruling.

Let me just ask this. Because hitter declared that the Jews were not people and allowed his executioners to slaughter them, were they not violating their rights? Fair question don't you think.

Seeing as how you own a gun and got all that police stuff in your posts/signature, I'm not surprised you agree with them not enforcing the law.

It just seems like a stupid idea for police to blatantly not enforce the law. And any police officer who does that is probably a terrible policeman.

[Vlerchan]

A police officer protecting the rights of free citizens is doing his job.
If that right exists.

If that right gets struck down then protecting the right isn't part of a police officer's job.

There is no study that they would stop doing their jobs. Only continuing to do their job in the face of an illegal ruling.
Ok. It doesn't matter how it is worded. I just want to see the text.

I would appreciate if you quoted it.

Because hitter declared that the Jews were not people and allowed his executioners to slaughter them, were they not violating their rights?
No. People don't have rights independent of the law.

[Professional Russian]

oh god here we go again....ah i remember my last 2A debate like it was yesterday. good times good times. While ill mostly stay out of this because my days of debateing are nearly done i will say that i am a big supporter of the 2nd amendment. i have my guns and i dont plan on giving them up. there is nothing wrong with the personal possession and ownership of firearms. everyone seems to make them out to be the devil but i have never once gotten hurt from any of the guns i have used....and let me tell you thats a big fucking list of guns.

[Abhorrence]

We don't have guns in Britain yet violence is still very much alive here. People find ways of doing things no matter what the law says.

[ValentinClarke]

Guns do not kill people, people kill people, therefore guns are essentially harmless. We use them in a way that makes them harmful, and that's the problem. we have idiots running around with guns, shouting everyone, not knowing what they are doing
VC