Fifty Shades of Grey

[phuckphace]

just wanted to comment on how degenerate and shitty this movie is

so there's a rich goon who looks like a space alien and gets off on beating women. the movie portrays it in a comically normal way as though it's something not screwed-up folks indulge in sometimes. Christian basically stalks what's-her-name, gets her drunk and starts talkin' about boning (!?) and showers her with gifts to tempt her into an "arrangement" with him. which in my book makes him a manipulative creep who is likely also a serial killer in his spare time.

terrible movie about a terrible book, also tl;dr

[Starling City]

I saw Fifty Shades of Grey last weekend in order to form an opinion on the subject matter. For the record, I never read the books so I can't attest to the source material and can strictly comment on the film. Obviously, many people are turned off from the BDSM relationship, and I understand that, as it's nothing I'd participate in or encourage either. However, I think this movie explores more than just the abusive dominance that Christian Grey displays towards Anastasia. The film does sort of romanticize this relationship at times, specifically for the fact that Mr. Grey is wealthy and powerful, so he and his lifestyle are more "charming" to Anastasia than most. However, I think it does a good job at showing the highs and the many lows associated with this arrangement. It manages to examine relationships and the need for emotional and physical support from a partner. Ana falls in "love" with Christian on an emotional level, which could be driven by an actual connection or simply by the mystery/uncertainty associated with "Mr. Grey". We don't really know how or why her fascination with him began or to what extent it ends. Maybe Ana's thoughts and feelings are more clearly examined in the book, but again, I didn't read it.

Throughout the film, it's evident that Christian, as he stated, had an awful upbringing and was forced into a similar relationship at a young age that made him develop these particular sexual desires. His whole perspective of a relationship was altered in those moments to believe that these are rational, acceptable, and loving ways to treat a partner because they were drilled into his mind when he was at a vulnerable, impressionable, growing stage (16 I think?). Similarly, Anastasia is vulnerable given her virginity and making this her first sexual experience. Ana realizes this after the 'charm' (or lack thereof) wears off and Christian is unable to give her a part of him that she needs in return for her affection. She tries to understand him and realizes he won't change to give her what she needs out of the relationship. I think that's telling of most relationships, even when given this dominant/submissive sexual fantasy, that there are necessities everyone requires to be satisfied in a relationship, and Ana clearly found that she needs more.

I personally don't think the movie was "shitty." Sure, it explored a topic that can easily turn many heads and can stir many abuse arguments and whatnot. I don't condone Christian's acts at all. However, despite loathing Christian's treatment of Anastasia myself, it proved an interesting study into what toll a relationship of this sort can take on both sides, but primarily Anastasia. Some may take it as mindless porn or what they will, but I personally took it as far more than that. I think it's open to interpretation, of course. Greatest film ever? Of course not. Worst film ever? Nope.

[JamesSuperBoy]

just wanted to comment on how degenerate and shitty this movie is

so there's a rich goon who looks like a space alien and gets off on beating women. the movie portrays it in a comically normal way as though it's something not screwed-up folks indulge in sometimes. Christian basically stalks what's-her-name, gets her drunk and starts talkin' about boning (!?) and showers her with gifts to tempt her into an "arrangement" with him. which in my book makes him a manipulative creep who is likely also a serial killer in his spare time.

terrible movie about a terrible book, also tl;dr

I don't think you have a career in film review just waiting to happen bro.

But it is a movie with all the hype the studios can muster and the media can drag out like forever.

[cami]

I never liked the idea of BDSM. And Christian sounds like a creepy raper. I haven't watched it because it's rated R here and I'm underage, but I'm not really interested on it.

[Taryn98]

I'm not into bondage or any of that, so I never had a desire to read the book or watch the movie.

[SethfromMI]

lol never read the book or saw the movie (it was meant for women more anyways but I digress) . looks so stupid. my gf kind of wants to go though, so I am hoping she just goes with friends haha

[rightmeow]

this movie really sucks.

[phuckphace]

I gtfo'd after about 30 minutes. more like 50 shades of GAY (which is saying a lot because it's about a heterosexual liaison lel)

my stomach was turned by the BDSM shit, Christian looking like a rapist alien and the awful sickly expression Ana wears that looks like that of a rape victim, which she comes perilously close to being during this encounter. I guess you could say I went to the movie theater mainly to remind myself how badly Hollywood is fucked when I take over.

[Magenta]

I've read the book and refuse to see the movie.

Let's look at it this way: if you watched the same movie but Christian wasn't some rich white dude but was... say a black or hispanic man living in a trailer or dump of an apartment, he wouldn't be a "BDSM master" loved by millions of fans, he'd be the creep on an episode of Law & Order: SVU. BDSM is nothing like what's in these books or that movie and it's disgusting that the media is promoting it as such which only leads men to believe that behaviour is okay and women to believe that's what they deserve and should learn to love, even if their abuser is going too far.

The BDSM mantra is "safe, sane, consensual". 50 Shades of Shit is nothing of the sort.

End of story.

Throughout the film, it's evident that Christian, as he stated, had an awful upbringing and was forced into a similar relationship at a young age that made him develop these particular sexual desires. His whole perspective of a relationship was altered in those moments to believe that these are rational, acceptable, and loving ways to treat a partner because they were drilled into his mind when he was at a vulnerable, impressionable, growing stage (16 I think?). Similarly, Anastasia is vulnerable given her virginity and making this her first sexual experience. Ana realizes this after the 'charm' (or lack thereof) wears off and Christian is unable to give her a part of him that she needs in return for her affection. She tries to understand him and realizes he won't change to give her what she needs out of the relationship. I think that's telling of most relationships, even when given this dominant/submissive sexual fantasy, that there are necessities everyone requires to be satisfied in a relationship, and Ana clearly found that she needs more.


So basically it's a movie romanticizing domestic abuse. And millions of people are going to watch it and go "oh poor Christian, he had a hard childhood so it's not his fault". This movie is not like "most relationships". If your relationship is anything like the relationship they have, you get the fuck out.

Not to mention, it gives BDSM a bad rep, even more so than usual. BDSM is actually a common and perfectly healthy practice, as long as both involved are educated and respectful of their partner. Also, statistically, most men are the submissive ones, not the women. You never know what woman out on the street could be a dominatrix because movies like these make it seem like the dominant men are the ones in control (and actually, in real BDSM, the submissive is always with the most control out of the whole scenario). This isn't even a dominant/submissive fantasy, it's gender stereotyping and rape culture at its finest.

A lot of users on this site probably won't have seen the movie 'cause it's age-restricted but the ones who have... well, if they liked it, that's up to them but I firmly believe people should be aware of the media they're consuming and I will always speak out against this movie and refuse to give them my money.

[phuckphace]

Let's look at it this way: if you watched the same movie but Christian wasn't some rich white dude but was... say a black or hispanic man living in a trailer or dump of an apartment, he wouldn't be a "BDSM master" loved by millions of fans, he'd be the creep on an episode of Law & Order: SVU.

eh, considering that millions of fans open their wallets for black rappers who glorify violence, drug use and objectification of women, I'm inclined to disagree here.

Law & Order is also excruciatingly PC. if anything the perp would be an Xtian bigot and Baptist preacher who moonlights as a rapist before being swiftly brought to justice by an empowered PoC

[Magus]

Not to mention, it gives BDSM a bad rep, even more so than usual. BDSM is actually a common and perfectly healthy practice, as long as both involved are educated and respectful of their partner. Also, statistically, most men are the submissive ones, not the women.

This. I like the idea of getting handcuffed to the bed and get slapped by an evening gloves.

It's roleplay than anything, really.

eh, considering that millions of fans open their wallets for black rappers who glorify violence, drug use and objectification of women, I'm inclined to disagree here.

I thought people download those music illegally.

[IconoclasticHeretic]

I didn't see the movie but the writing had little literary merit and I'm not into straight white sex so it was pretty lame. Maybe the director could have injected some life into it, but Hollywood lately hasn't been so, whatever.

[tasminsmith]

just wanted to comment on how degenerate and shitty this movie is

so there's a rich goon who looks like a space alien and gets off on beating women. the movie portrays it in a comically normal way as though it's something not screwed-up folks indulge in sometimes. Christian basically stalks what's-her-name, gets her drunk and starts talkin' about boning (!?) and showers her with gifts to tempt her into an "arrangement" with him. which in my book makes him a manipulative creep who is likely also a serial killer in his spare time.

terrible movie about a terrible book, also tl;dr

finally someone who feels the same way about 50 shades of grey as I do.

[gemamp]

well, well... I was saw the film and I was readed the book and I think "yeah! it´s soo hard to be a perfect book but (forget about the sex relation) the history are very nice, It´s soo cool. I like the books like this. Forget about the porn and see the history, it´s so sad and romantic.
The film aren´t perfect but the actors are the same. There are the same expressions, feelings, etc. Some people say that Dakota Jhonson was not Anastasia Steel but is her, is amazing. Is the same person.
So please, before talked about that see and read the book, please.
XOXO

[phuckphace]

This. I like the idea of [I really didn't need to know that]

TMI, this isn't the sexuality forum buddy

I thought people download those music illegally.

because the only possible way artists can make money is via online music sales.

I didn't see the movie but the writing had little literary merit and I'm not into straight white sex so it was pretty lame. Maybe the director could have injected some life into it, but Hollywood lately hasn't been so, whatever.

tbh I think "straight white sex" is the least disturbing aspect of the film. BDSM in general is inherently the eroticization of violence, and a phenomenon that I'd bet money has a high correlation to physical/sexual/emotional abuse in childhood. I believe the "consent" is in many cases warped by this mental trauma and is therefore invalid.

finally someone who feels the same way about 50 shades of grey as I do.

FSOG Haters Crew

holy crap I just realized I'm literally fighting rape culture right now. guess I'd better set up a Tumblr and post about male privilege now

[IconoclasticHeretic]

tbh I think "straight white sex" is the least disturbing aspect of the film. BDSM in general is inherently the eroticization of violence, and a phenomenon that I'd bet money has a high correlation to physical/sexual/emotional abuse in childhood. I believe the "consent" is in many cases warped by this mental trauma and is therefore invalid.


Well, that's annoying. It's a private sex life, dude. That more people than you think are into varying forms of it. If I'm having the best fuck of my life and that guy asks me to choke him a little or slap him in the face, you better believe that's what I'm gonna do. Not ask him questions about his childhood.

[phuckphace]

Well, that's annoying.

I know

It's a private sex life, dude.

I obviously couldn't care less, that was my point. it's pathological behavior that this movie and similar material are trying to legitimize. if you aren't a hyper-individualist weirdo (i.e. if you're almost anyone) this eroticization of violence is unconscionable and will be opposed. sorry, that's just how it works.

That more people than you think are into varying forms of it.

yeah man totally! I run into my grandma at the bondage club all the time (actually I think she works there)

If I'm having the best fuck of my life and that guy asks me to choke him a little or slap him in the face, you better believe that's what I'm gonna do. Not ask him questions about his childhood.

well good for you but that has nothing to do with the point of my post.

[ValentinClarke]

Literally, I love the 50SG series, having read them all myself. You have to get past the BDSM part; he is one fucked up guy ( 50 shades of fucked up in fact) and he has to exercise control in things, because he has had a shit start in life. The BDSM stuff is just a form of sex which is more intimate, and more trusting. Christian has grown up in that way, having been molested when he was a child and when he was a teen. Christian likes to have control in things, because he had the shittest start ever. He treats Ana well, and she can leave whenever she wants, but she doesn't. In fact she ends up carrying his child, and marrying him. He musn't be too bad, surely?
VC

[IconoclasticHeretic]

I obviously couldn't care less, that was my point. it's pathological behavior that this movie and similar material are trying to legitimize. if you aren't a hyper-individualist weirdo (i.e. if you're almost anyone) this eroticization of violence is unconscionable and will be opposed. sorry, that's just how it works.


You tend to have a little hangup where you think that if you feel a certain way, everyone must. You're not the supreme god of the universe. Everyone has different things they like and your rules should not be imposed on them. It is entirely legitimate so long as both people are into it. It's not violence if it's consensual and requested. From sexual practices to martial arts clubs, just because something can cause physical pain does not mean it should be banned.


yeah man totally! I run into my grandma at the bondage club all the time (actually I think she works there)


Clearly a comment dripping with sarcasm but not an outlandish idea.


well good for you but that has nothing to do with the point of my post.

It's anecdotal evidence based on personal experience relevant to a tamer version, but the same concept, as BDSM relationships. So yeah, it's on topic.

[Abhorrence]

I have not attempted to watch the film but I've read an extract from the book and holy shit the author is a terrible writer. I've read better fanfiction from a 13 year old.

[phuckphace]

You tend to have a little hangup where you think that if you feel a certain way, everyone must. You're not the supreme god of the universe. Everyone has different things they like and your rules should not be imposed on them.

you're still misinterpreting my point(s) here.

what I'm trying to say is that eroticization of violence likely has a pathological origin, i.e. the root cause stems from abnormal/unhealthy experience during the individuals' formative years, which in turn molds and influences their behavior. you in turn keep trying to oversimplify this as a simple difference in personal preference as though we're talking about favorite pizza toppings or something.

I take issue with the fact that there is a clear trend toward eroticization of violence and how this relates to negative factors, not only that of BDSM but in pornography as well. not the fact that someone out there likes something I don't like.

It is entirely legitimate so long as both people are into it.

this is where you're hung up.

I, and a lot of other people, don't consider adults having sexual relationships with 8 year olds legitimate, for certain specific reasons. you're all for consent-based ethics but aren't taking into account that consent is rather meaningless when it can be and is influenced and molded by negative factors, i.e trauma (in the case of BDSM and a good deal of pornography, or manipulation/grooming in the case of adult/boy "relationships".)

From sexual practices to martial arts clubs, just because something can cause physical pain does not mean it should be banned.

please point out where I stated or implied that it should be banned, or that it should be banned because it causes physical pain. my point was neither of these.

Clearly a comment dripping with sarcasm but not an outlandish idea.

okay, sure.

It's anecdotal evidence based on personal experience relevant to a tamer version, but the same concept, as BDSM relationships. So yeah, it's on topic.

I'd prefer you actually try to read my post instead of spinning your wheels about consent or me trying to spoil everyone's fun in a fit of Hitlery moral outrage. let's see if we can do this without strawmen this time!

[IconoclasticHeretic]

you're still misinterpreting my point(s) here.

what I'm trying to say is that eroticization of violence likely has a pathological origin, i.e. the root cause stems from abnormal/unhealthy experience during the individuals' formative years, which in turn molds and influences their behavior. you in turn keep trying to oversimplify this as a simple difference in personal preference as though we're talking about favorite pizza toppings or something.

I take issue with the fact that there is a clear trend toward eroticization of violence and how this relates to negative factors, not only that of BDSM but in pornography as well. not the fact that someone out there likes something I don't like.

And I disagree, I think it's a little more pizza topping. BDSM is a style of sex people are into, not necessarily an indication of abuse but a healthy, consensual kink that people like.


this is where you're hung up.

I, and a lot of other people, don't consider adults having sexual relationships with 8 year olds legitimate, for certain specific reasons. you're all for consent-based ethics but aren't taking into account that consent is rather meaningless when it can be and is influenced and molded by negative factors, i.e trauma (in the case of BDSM and a good deal of pornography, or manipulation/grooming in the case of adult/boy "relationships".)


8 year olds can't consent. Just like heavily inebriated people can't consent. Adults can consent. And sometimes they like things just because they like them and not because of trauma (which by the way, this is sounding an awful like homophobic rhetoric, too)


please point out where I stated or implied that it should be banned, or that it should be banned because it causes physical pain. my point was neither of these.


Well, you think everyone who is into it is a deviant, abused, shell of a person in need of therapy and incapable of knowing their own desires....


I'd prefer you actually try to read my post instead of spinning your wheels about consent or me trying to spoil everyone's fun in a fit of Hitlery moral outrage. let's see if we can do this without strawmen this time!

It's hard not to see it as a fit of Hitlery moral outrage when you introduce your argument with a complaint about how disgusting it is and a one dimensional view of the things you don't understand. I lived with Southern Baptists, I can recognize it.

[phuckphace]

IconoclasticHeretic

the fact that I personally find it disgusting has no bearing on the psychological attributes of the behavior, I included it for humor's sake (hence the tone) and because I can, and anyone is welcome to disagree. I think it's a twisted degradation of sex, you think everybody and their dog does it behind close doors. I just think it's funny how offended you're getting by the fact that my ideology clashes with yours w.r.t. individual behavior even though that should be totally expected.

I like rational explanations for things including behavior. that's really what motivated my posts, that and the clearly manipulative behavior on the part of Christian in FSOG.

[IconoclasticHeretic]

phuckphace

Mixing up causation and correlation with your personal disgust just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I've heard the same thing from Christians about being homosexual. The "psychological" reason for their behavior being an overbearing mother and absent father, etc.

[phuckphace]

phuckphace

Mixing up causation and correlation with your personal disgust just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I've heard the same thing from Christians about being homosexual. The "psychological" reason for their behavior being an overbearing mother and absent father, etc.

I've found that "correlation does not imply causation" is something people say when the evidence points to places they'd rather not look.

there is significant evidence that trauma in childhood, namely sexual abuse, is often continued later in life by the victim themselves. my speculation that someone who achieves sexual arousal through violence (i.e. beating/choking women) is likely "acting out" in a similar manner isn't as unreasonable as you seem to think. obviously that's not something you want to hear.

Christians and what they think about anything are irrelevant to the discussion.

[SethfromMI]

the more I hear about it the more I would not want to watch it even if the gf asked. luckily she went with some friends so I did not have to go

[Horatio Nelson]

TV/Cinema :arrow: ROTW

Since this has turned into more of a debate about BDSM than the actual movie, it has been moved.

[phuckphace]

I didn't really mean for this to turn into a BDSM debate, I was mainly interested in hearing some opinions on the film and more specifically the questionable way Anastasia became involved with Christian. quite frankly the whole thing smelled strongly of a guy with a kink for smacking young innocent women using alcohol and ca$h to sway her consent. I thought it was creepy and had a surprising number of girls agree (given how popular the franchise seems to be among young women). so I kinda figured I must be on to something.

anyway, yeah that's pretty much it I guess. I don't believe in the SJW's "rape culture" but if I did this movie/book would be high on the list.

[IconoclasticHeretic]

I didn't really mean for this to turn into a BDSM debate, I was mainly interested in hearing some opinions on the film and more specifically the questionable way Anastasia became involved with Christian. quite frankly the whole thing smelled strongly of a guy with a kink for smacking young innocent women using alcohol and ca$h to sway her consent. I thought it was creepy and had a surprising number of girls agree (given how popular the franchise seems to be among young women). so I kinda figured I must be on to something.

anyway, yeah that's pretty much it I guess. I don't believe in the SJW's "rape culture" but if I did this movie/book would be high on the list.

Yeah, I think we should put the topic to rest as well. We clearly just disagree and neither of us will be convinced either way. I haven't seen the movie, I was only familiar with the books.

[Stronk Serb]

This thing... It should be banned on the basis of corrupting the youth. Thankfully me and my girlfriend agree that the movie is not worth it and both of us are too lazy to read the book.

[Babs]

I want nothing to do woth the FSOG franchise. From what I hear, it's down-right gross.

[MeliWelli]

i have not attempted to watch the film but i've read an extract from the book and holy shit the author is a terrible writer. I've read better fanfiction from a 13 year old.

ditto!!

[Vlerchan]

Historically, it has been intimated that only people with some sort of psychological disturbance could be aroused by non-normative means. Particularly prevalent was the view that childhood trauma or sexual assault cause a person to develop sexual deviancy. This is simply not true. Numerous studies show that BDSM practitioners are no more likely than the general public to have mental disorders or a history of abuse.

http://canta.co.nz/features/the-psychology-of-bdsm/?offset=8

I'm sure the people with an actual interest can go track down the studies themselves. Here's a start:

RESULTS: In total, 1.8% of sexually active people (2.2% of men, 1.3% of women) said they had been involved in BDSM in the previous year. This was more common among gay/lesbian and bisexual people. People who had engaged in BDSM were more likely to have experienced oral sex and/or anal sex, to have had more than one partner in the past year, to have had sex with someone other than their regular partner, and to have: taken part in phone sex, visited an Internet sex site, viewed an X-rated (pornographic) film or video, used a sex toy, had group sex, or taken part in manual stimulation of the anus, fisting or rimming. However, they were no more likely to have been coerced into sexual activity, and were not significantly more likely to be unhappy or anxious-indeed, men who had engaged in BDSM scored significantly lower on a scale of psychological distress than other men. Engagement in BDSM was not significantly related to any sexual difficulties.

CONCLUSION: Our findings support the idea that BDSM is simply a sexual interest or subculture attractive to a minority, and for most participants not a pathological symptom of past abuse or difficulty with "normal" sex.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18331257

That means people who are more liberal in their sexual attitudes have a greater likelihood of engaging in sexual activities that are more distant from the norm.

I never would have guessed.

---

I also got told the the acting and production value of 50 Shades was sub-porn so even if I didn't find the content non-revolting for all the reasons outlined prior I wouldn't bother.

[Saint of Sinners]

Not offended Instead I found it funny. Just saying the book was pretty bad XD. Sounded like typical mom porn/twilight fanfiction. I'm surprised it got popular.

I don't think it corrupts youth or anything. Let people enjoy their weird fetishes, it's not my business to judge.

[Uranus]

I watched the movie just to see how fucked up it is.

Honestly, it has nothing to do with BDSM. I don't even see how people can like this movie the way it's made. The whole movie he's pressuring her to sign a contract, that would make her, not his kinky gf. Not a girl who's enjoying it. The contract makes her his sex slave. Doing whatever he wants, whenever he wants, to the extreme. He's a twisted lunatic. There's barely any sex involved. He's an abusive man raping women without them even knowing, until after they sign it. It's totally fucked. Plus the ending is completely bs. It's a boring lameass ending.

Overall
I'd rather watch Dora The Explorer compared to this horribly written movie.

[Aajj333]

It's abuse, but worst of all it glorifies abuse to a susceptible audience.