Everything you need to know about circumcision!

[TredOut]

Okay so there have been quite many posts about circumcision and I've noticed that there are many false myths going around and the majority of people is misinformed so I decided to make this thread.

Myths:

1. Circumcision isn't bad for the child
Circumcision is extremely painful for the baby. Children shoud receive anesthesia for this operation, however majority of children don't/ receive a low dose so most children are in unbearable pain during this operation. This horrible pain will often effect the brain of the child for the rest of his life. Even if the child gets anesthesia, it is extremely harmful for the whole body of the baby. Every year 100 babies die because of circumcision.

2. Uncut penises are more likely to get infected
It's actually the exact opposite. Foreskin protects the penis from various germs and infections. Foreskin of newborns is closed off and there's no need to wash it at this point of their life, because no bacteria can get in there.

3. Circumcision prevents STDs
Now that is just ridiculous. STDs are caused by contact with infected body fluids. Foreskin has nothing to do with it.

4. Uncut penises smell worse
That is just false because foreskin has nothing to do with the smell of a penis.

5. It's harder to clean
It's as easy to clean as a circumcised penis. You can just pull the skin back and clean the whole thing. Most uncut children are taught this at a very young age and it's one of the most important hygiene process that nobody neglects.

6. Girls won't get the same pleasure
The difference between an erect cut and uncut penis is unnoticeable, because the foreskin automatically pulls itself all the way back.

7. Circumcision makes the penis grow bigger
Again, foreskin has no effect on the growth of penis. If the bigger penises you've seen were circumcised, it's just a coincidence.

Facts about circumcision:

1. Penis has around 30 000 nerve endings. Foreskin alone has around 10-20 000!

2. Constant rubbing of your penis against your underwear can desensitize the tip (another decrease of sexual pleasure) and it also increases the chance of erectile dysfunction.

3. Foreskin increases the pleasure for both men and WOMEN. Foreskin helps the penis lubricate itself, which makes the intercourse more comfortable for both parties.

4. Male circumcision (legal) is really similar to female circumcision (illegal). They both decrease the pleasure, cause pain and are done for the same reasons.

Few things to think about:
1. Do you want your baby to go through such a painful surgery?

2. Girls, would you want guys to condone labiaplasty just because of aesthetical reasons? Or would you like them to promote female circumcision just because of false hygienic myths?

3. Would you be cool/are you cool with having 60% of the nerve endings on your penis cut off?

4. Do you think it's fair that young boys are often made feel different/strange about being uncut?

That's everything I have to say for now. If you have any questions feel free to ask. I'm not trying to put circumcised people down or anything like that, everyone should be cool with their appearance and happy with who they are. I'd just like to stop this madness at least for the sake of our future generations and inform boys and girls about circumcision because most of the teenagers have false perception of it.

[Cpt_Cutter]

The issue is that even on this site I've seen time and time again "Oh, I'll do it to my kid. It was done to me and I don't hate it", and it's really flawed logic. Following that train of thought you could cut off a limb, but if the person grows up learning to adapt and doesn't hate it, then they should be able to do it to their children too. It's stupid. There really isn't a modern reason to do it other than your religious beliefs from over two thousand years ago. When you look at all the other sections of religious texts people disregard because they're flawed or just plain stupid, I fail to see why this one stuck.

[nklarke]

Do you know what NEUTRAL means? Maybe presenting BOTH point of views, for and against circumcision would make more interesting and credible your post and specially since you didn't indicate a single valid source.

[NewZealand]

Do you know what NEUTRAL means? Maybe presenting BOTH point of views, for and against circumcision would make more interesting and credible your post and specially since you didn't indicate a single valid source.

This seems neutral to me, good points are brought from both sides. Perhaps you just don't like the facts?

[Axel_]

Try backing up your arguments with an accurate source before posting otherwise they're flawed. I have a problem with #1. At least for me, my brain nor body functions any worse than an uncircumcised lad. I don't mean to hate, but some of your statements are very untrue. This is not a neutral thread^ All his points are favoring one particular side even if he's not intentionally doing so.

[TredOut]

I don't see any positive sides of circumcision, besides it looking better. The whole point of this post was to bust false myths that people tell you to justify circumcision. I wrote it to get the word around so at least one person will change his mind and won't circumcise their child. I just think it's barbaric and child shouldn't go through such a painful procedure. If he wants to get circumcised, he should do so when he's old enough for making his own decisions after getting educated on the topic. I could've added sources but what's the point if I added websites that say exactly the same thing? You'll have to take my word for it. I acquired these facts through research and made sure that they are true. I didn't post anything unless I saw at least 3 professionals saying the same thing. I just rephrased it. I didn't try to make it neutral, I didn't try to make it a pros and cons post, maybe I sould've titled it "Circumcision myths". I was also not trying to make circumcised people feel bad about it or anything like that, I just wanted them to know the truth and stop this trend.
Axel_ It's very hard to test brain function and really confirm that it has a negative effect because people are all so different. The thought behind this is that a painful experiece at a young age may cause subconscious trauma. I actually noticed this in my dog. When she was a puppy, her breeders unintentionally stepped on her leg and broke it. She's fine now physically, but you can see that it marked her mentally.

[Wanderer_]

A false myth would be true right?

It's unethical and should be criminal
It's modifying an intimate part of the body without consent of the individual

[nklarke]

This seems neutral to me, good points are brought from both sides. Perhaps you just don't like the facts?

Ahh really? Show me one good point brought for the circumcision? Only one.

[NewZealand]

Ahh really? Show me one good point brought for the circumcision? Only one.

What I'm trying to say is that there aren't any substantially valid points for circumsision other than for religious purposes.

[Omniscient]

Despite these facts, the CDC still recommends it to be done at birth *facepalm*

I think that it should be illegal to circumcise someone against their will and before they turn 18 (with exceptions to legitimate medical complications). It is just all around wrong to circumcise a baby.

[jockeyboy97]

I was circumcised when I was born so I don't remember anything. I can say that I'm happy being cut, because it's all that I know. I can say that my pens gives me great pleasure, it works and is sensitive to me and gives me great pleasure. Yes I see where a lot of guys say that when your cut you loose a lot of nerve endings, that could be very true but I can say that whatever nerve endings I have left my penis is sensitive to the touch and it feels real good and sensitive when I touch my penis against some soft blanket or someone's bare skin. I have a friend who was uncircumcised and had to get cut at 14 because of medical reasons. He has experience both worlds. He is happy being cut and tells me that his penis tip is still very sensitive when his underwear brushes against it. He also told me that when he had his foreskin the tip of his penis was very sensitive where it sometimes hurt when touched a certain way. My point is being as long as your happy with your penis, it makes you feel good, works properly and makes you and your partner happy is all that counts. Circumcision has been around for thousands of years and there will always be pros and cons. I sometimes wish I could feel what it's like to have a foreskin, but I will never know but I'm still content being cut and no I'm not mad at my parents for having me cut at birth. So, I say be happy whether you cut or uncut enjoy yourself and respect other guys who are different than you. If their happy with their penis that is all that matters.

[nklarke]

What I'm trying to say is that there aren't any substantially valid points for circumsision other than for religious purposes.

No comments .....:lol:

I was circumcised when I was born so I don't remember anything. I can say that I'm happy being cut, because it's all that I know. I can say that my pens gives me great pleasure, it works and is sensitive to me and gives me great pleasure. Yes I see where a lot of guys say that when your cut you loose a lot of nerve endings, that could be very true but I can say that whatever nerve endings I have left my penis is sensitive to the touch and it feels real good and sensitive when I touch my penis against some soft blanket or someone's bare skin. I have a friend who was uncircumcised and had to get cut at 14 because of medical reasons. He has experience both worlds. He is happy being cut and tells me that his penis tip is still very sensitive when his underwear brushes against it. He also told me that when he had his foreskin the tip of his penis was very sensitive where it sometimes hurt when touched a certain way. My point is being as long as your happy with your penis, it makes you feel good, works properly and makes you and your partner happy is all that counts. Circumcision has been around for thousands of years and there will always be pros and cons. I sometimes wish I could feel what it's like to have a foreskin, but I will never know but I'm still content being cut and no I'm not mad at my parents for having me cut at birth. So, I say be happy whether you cut or uncut enjoy yourself and respect other guys who are different than you. If their happy with their penis that is all that matters.

That was a smart comment.

Merged double posts, next time please use the multi button. ~Hannah

[Goatzbro]

The OP has not provided any valid sources, and as an intelligent consumer of information, one should not confirm any of his claims without knowing WHERE they came from. I completely agree with you OP, just give me some fucking sources please.

[jssixna]

As long as they're happy being circumcised I see no problem.

[TredOut]

Since everyone wants the sources:
http://www.medic8.com/healthguide/circumcision/circumcision-myths.html
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/moral-landscapes/201109/myths-about-circumcision-you-likely-believe
http://www.academia.edu/6394940/Lost_Boys_An_Estimate_of_U.S._Circumcision-Related_Infant_Deaths

[Jim1]

That last one, about deaths from circumcision, is totally bogus.

http://circumcisionnews.blogspot.co.uk/2010/05/fatally-flawed-bollinger

[Goatzbro]

That last one, about deaths from circumcision, is totally bogus.

http://circumcisionnews.blogspot.co....awed-bollinger

I agree, this doesn't seem like a very valid source.

[Karkat]

I agree with this. The only reason it ever should be done is either if the person decides for whatever reason that they want it done later in life, when it's their choice, or in the event of a medical disorder that makes it painful because the foreskin won't retract. (And even then I think there may be other surgical options?)

[Meh Guy]

I don't see any positive sides of circumcision, besides it looking better.

Even though you may have creditable sources, you're putting your own opinion and therefore bias into the post. If you want to have truly helpful and informative thread, you should forget what you think is right and just post facts/myths about both sides. Also, some of the myths are purely situationally based. For example, #4 "Uncut penises smell worse." this one is and isn't true. if you don't wash under the foreskin, it will smell. I for one am pretty neutral in my opinion about circumcision but I will agree with #1 because it probably is very painful. Also I hate hearing the "They're too young to remember it." argument. That's an invalid argument. It's like saying I could steal something if it isn't missed.

[TredOut]

Even though you may have creditable sources, you're putting your own opinion and therefore bias into the post. If you want to have truly helpful and informative thread, you should forget what you think is right and just post facts/myths about both sides. Also, some of the myths are purely situationally based. For example, #4 "Uncut penises smell worse." this one is and isn't true. if you don't wash under the foreskin, it will smell. I for one am pretty neutral in my opinion about circumcision but I will agree with #1 because it probably is very painful. Also I hate hearing the "They're too young to remember it." argument. That's an invalid argument. It's like saying I could steal something if it isn't missed.
I don't think there are too many of my opinions, but my stance against it is obvious.

[nklarke]

There are people (a lot) that think that because something is on Internet is by default a "source". Everyone can post no matter what in his own web site and it doesn't mean it's valid, acceptable, reliable, etc.

[OSUBuckEyes]

Thanks for the PSA but isn't some of that info more relevant to parents LMAO

anyways i'm happy i'm circumsized

[jockeyboy97]

There are people (a lot) that think that because something is on Internet is by default a "source". Everyone can post no matter what in his own web site and it doesn't mean it's valid, acceptable, reliable, etc.

I totally agree.

[Hermes]

The OP has not provided any valid sources, and as an intelligent consumer of information, one should not confirm any of his claims without knowing WHERE they came from. I completely agree with you OP, just give me some fucking sources please.

I think if you live in a country where circumcision is the norm it is easy to see the burden of proof as being on those who challenge the status quo.

From an international perspective neonatal circumcision is practiced by the jews for religious reasons and routinely by the Americans for claimed health benefits. Circumcision at puberty is practiced by Muslims for religious reasons. All other peoples of the word don't circumcise unless a medical issue arises that affects that particular patient, i.e. it is not routine.

From a health perspective it seems to me an intervention should only be made when:

1. The individual patient has a condition, diagnosed by symptoms or tests, that means the intervention would be theraputic.
2. Using the intervention on the population as a whole has a provable protective effect that could not be obtained by treating individual patients reactively, i.e. as and when they need it.

Taking up the second case above it is routine to vaccinate babies and children against a number of serious illnesses even though they show no signs of any of the illnesses concerned. This is done because the vaccination prevents the disease from spreading through the population and therefore protects everyone including those who would be untreatable should they actually become ill, something called "herd immunity". There is cost and a small element of risk to the vaccination programme but this is justified because the evidence of effectiveness is overwhelming.

There is no herd immunity to circumcision and the evidence of benefit to the individual seems marginal but possibly open to interpretation. As an example, if you compare penile cancer rates between the USA, where circumcision is common, and Sweden, where it is not, and find there is little difference this tends to suggest that circumcision is of no benefit, at least as far as a penile cancer is concerned, but there could be confounding factors.

When it comes to parents imposing an intervention on their sons at an age when those sons are too young to understand the intervention concerned and certainly unable to give informed consent it seems to me it is not enough to say "we know best" but to have some evidence as to why an irreversible intervention is required now and cannot wait until the child is old enough to make his own decision.

So after all that, from the challenge of "show me evidence to support the ceasation of neonatal circumcision" how about those who support its continuation producing evidence that it is both beneficial and that the timing, i.e. doing it in infacy, is important to gain those putative benefits.

[NewZealand]

Thanks for the PSA but isn't some of that info more relevant to parents LMAO
anyways i'm happy i'm circumsized

It's about the future, just because you are happy being cut yourself is not a valid reason to circumsized your son, because it is all that you have knowen.

[TredOut]

Thanks for the PSA but isn't some of that info more relevant to parents LMAO

anyways i'm happy i'm circumsized
I know and most people who are reading this are future parents.

There are people (a lot) that think that because something is on Internet is by default a "source". Everyone can post no matter what in his own web site and it doesn't mean it's valid, acceptable, reliable, etc.
Sorry but I can't call up 10 doctors and tell them to write an essay about their opinion, stamp it and send me a copy of their license to make it valid. With that mindset you can say that everything is false. You could read a news article and say "Oh that guy wasn't murdered because there is no valid source, it's just an internet article."

I agree, this doesn't seem like a very valid source.
I just posted one source. You can google it and you will find dozens of sites saying that.

[jen698]

I think it should be left up to the person its on to make up there minds if they want it cut off or not. so when I have a baby boy he will not be circumcised on less its medical needed or he wants it done

[OSUBuckEyes]

It's about the future, just because you are happy being cut yourself is not a valid reason to circumsized your son, because it is all that you have knowen.


Who said anything about me cuttin' my son? LOL

[OSUBuckEyes]

[QUOTE=TredOut;3078845]I know and most people who are reading this are future parents.


Fair point.... I probably won't circumsize my kids just saying this is a weird forum for this info LOL

[nklarke]

Sorry but I can't call up 10 doctors and tell them to write an essay about their opinion, stamp it and send me a copy of their license to make it valid. With that mindset you can say that everything is false. You could read a news article and say "Oh that guy wasn't murdered because there is no valid source, it's just an internet article."


Well, in fact, no even one reliable doctor in the world will say what you wrote in your very first point "This horrible pain will often effect the brain of the child for the rest of his life".

So, according to your very trustworthy sources, most of the 30% of the world population (that is circumcised) have brain effects ... great :lol::lol::lol:
99% of Jews are circumcised and 22% of the Nobel prizes belong to Jews, so most of the 22% of people who received a Nobel prize have a brain effect ... it's seem that such brain effect is a very possitive effect :yeah::lol::yeah::lol::yeah::lol:

It's all for now :D

[TredOut]

Well, in fact, no even one reliable doctor in the world will say what you wrote in your very first point "This horrible pain will often effect the brain of the child for the rest of his life".

So, according to your very trustworthy sources, most of the 30% of the world population (that is circumcised) have brain effects ... great :lol::lol::lol:
99% of Jews are circumcised and 22% of the Nobel prizes belong to Jews, so most of the 22% of people who received a Nobel prize have a brain effect ... it's seem that such brain effect is a very possitive effect :yeah::lol::yeah::lol::yeah::lol:

It's all for now :D

EVERY painful experience at an early age will have negative effects on you. It doesn't mean that it will ruin your life for fucks sake but it will effect you negatively. Your argument is so flawed that I won't even get to it...

[nklarke]

Originally Posted by nklarke
Well, in fact, no even one reliable doctor in the world will say what you wrote in your very first point "This horrible pain will often effect the brain of the child for the rest of his life".

kawaiineko posted:
Actually, yes: http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/circumcision-carried-out-before-age-5-can-increase-risk-autism-by-46-1484448

Yes what?

No reliable doctor in your web site stand for the study. The only 2 doctors mentioned blame the study:

1) Dr Douglas S Diekema, a pediatrician at the University of Washington in Seattle, warned that people should be careful when drawing conclusions after reading the report, which "raises questions for further study, but does not provide answers. Correlation does not imply or prove causation."

2) Dr Howard Cohen, wrote "The wrong type of study was done to explore whether a causative link exists. The authors seemingly failed to grasp both what autism is or what happens at a circumcision."

[nklarke]

EVERY painful experience at an early age will have negative effects on you. It doesn't mean that it will ruin your life for fucks sake but it will effect you negatively. Your argument is so flawed that I won't even get to it...

Who says that? PROVE IT !

How can you prove that a pain I felt when I was 3 years old affect me now? And it's not something that ruin your life so it's a "small" effect, even more difficult to prove it.
I was skiing when I was 5 years old and I fell... it was a painful incident that's why I started crying ......... and according to you that will affect my entire life negatively .... sure dude .....:lol::lol::lol:

[Jim1]

EVERY painful experience at an early age will have negative effects on you. It doesn't mean that it will ruin your life for fucks sake but it will effect you negatively. Your argument is so flawed that I won't even get to it...

So I guess all of us are affected by the painful experience of being pushed and shoved
and squeezed through the birth canal - except those who were born Cesearean.

[TredOut]

Who says that? PROVE IT !

How can you prove that a pain I felt when I was 3 years old affect me now? And it's not something that ruin your life so it's a "small" effect, even more difficult to prove it.
I was skiing when I was 5 years old and I fell... it was a painful incident that was I started crying ......... and according to you that will affect my entire life negatively .... sure dude .....:lol::lol::lol:
Gosh there's just no point arguing with an idiot who doesn't see how flawed his logic is. You're just trying to push your belief through disregarding any fact and claim everything as inaccurate, you are probably butthurt I don't know. I could also start saying "Prove me that circumcision is useful! Prove me that it has any positive effects!" I've wasted a plenty of time with you already. I'm done here... peace.

[nklarke]

Gosh there's just no point arguing with an idiot who doesn't see how flawed his logic is. .

Next step, insulting me because of your lack of arguments. Congratulations.

[nklarke]

So I guess all of us are affected by the painful experience of being pushed and shoved
and squeezed through the birth canal - except those who were born Cesearean.

Lol.

It's so absurd and he even insults me :lol:

[TredOut]

Next step, insulting me because of your lack of arguments. Congratulations.
Out of all the things I wrote you respond only to the insult, I hope it didn't hurt your little feelings too much since you even mentioned it twice :O smh... The point was (since you are clearly uncapable of comprehending it) that you aren't willing to accept any facts because you say that everything is false or unreliable, which is just sad. You also didn't tell me what's beneficial about circumcision, when I asked you to. In my opinion the only reason why you even got into this argument is because you got butthurt about the fact that I said something bad/true about your holy ritual of circumcision, you weren't able to debunk anything I said (you should be able to since you believe I'm wrong). It's time to wake up sheepie...

[nklarke]

Out of all the things I wrote you respond only to the insult, I hope it didn't hurt your little feelings too much since you even mentioned it twice



It didn't hurt but it doesn't change the fact that you insulted me.

Is it very difficult to say I was wrong and I'm sorry?


The point was (since you are clearly uncapable of comprehending it) that you aren't willing to accept any facts because you say that everything is false or unreliable, which is just sad.

I didn't say I won't accept any FACT. What I (and other people) said is that what you are sharing here AREN'T FACTS.

You also didn't tell me what's beneficial about circumcision, when I asked you to. In my opinion the only reason why you even got into this argument is because you got butthurt about the fact that I said something bad/true about your holy ritual of circumcision, you weren't able to debunk anything I said (you should be able to since you believe I'm wrong). It's time to wake up sheepie...

I didn't tell you what's beneficial about circumcision because I've ZERO interest in promoting it, in convencing other to do it. It was YOU who created this thread to promote the no circumcision. I don't encourage people to get circumcised (except for medical or religious reasons) but it doesn't mean I will stay quite when someone will post ridiculous arguments trying vainly to disqualify circumcision.

[lancezer]

What I'm trying to say is that there aren't any substantially valid points for circumsision other than for religious purposes.
True and medically as I had to for medical reasons and I found it better than before so the loosing sensition I don't believe it was opposite but again depends on type of circumcision and how the skin is folded or how much is cut and if the frenulum is left intacted which is good PS I was cut at 18 years old so I know both sides