Religion in schools

[That's the Spirit]

I really hate how religion is forced down the throats of the young at schools;

My step mum works at a strong Catholic primary school and the pupils are FORCED to pray/thank before their meals whilst having to sing hymns.
They also have to be a Catholic to go to the school which is hugely unfair, especially if, say, the places were limited in said town and they had to go to this school.

I also think parents are one of the main reasons behind this, it's totally unfair to make your child go to church when they are at an age where they cannot decide what their believe.
Overall strongly dislike how people aren't given a choice anymore, and I believe this is because if given a choice after education, people would go 'off' religion, making it lose influence.

[Karkat]

Catholic school

Catholic school

I hate to say this, but Catholic schools kinda have the right to be Catholic-y. If the question at hand was "Should religion be allowed in schools AT ALL", it could be a different argument but

Catholicism

Is

A

Religion. Js.

[Babs]

What Ren said.

It'd be different if it was a public school.

[Typhlosion]

It still raises the question if Catholic, and other religious schools in general, should even exist. I of course disagree with this on a first world perspective, as the child has zero power to decide if they want to be indoctrinated or not - and given the amount of religions and their sects noways, the default should be no indoctrination at all. But really, the problem isn't the school, but the parents that lead their children to it.

Although I'm not too keen on any legislation on religious upbringing. There are already plenty of dos and don'ts, including physical measures on discipline being illegal in some countries., and I'm not enough of a (new) atheist to fight fervorously against child indoctrination.

[fairmaiden]

Like what everyone else said;

Your mum works at a catholic school. The children are most likely all catholic. Therefore the school pretty much have a right to tell the children to pray before they eat. Not saying that all catholic schools should, but if they do, they sort of have a right to do it.

If it's a school that's for all religions, then of course people shouldn't be asked to pray before they eat. However as the situation you describe is at a catholic school; there isn't really that much of a problem.

When parents take their kids to church/synagogues/mosques or whatever their place of worship is, yes it may look like they're ''forcing'' their children to go there, however when the kid grows up, usually they can choose whether they still want to go or not. This is similar to atheist/agnostic parents ''forcing'' their child to have the same views as them but when the child grows up, they can decide whether they still want to be an atheist/agnostic or not.

Religion isn't necessarily like a body modification that stays with you for life; you can usually choose what you want to believe in when you grow up.

[amgb]

I agree with the others. The pupils at your step mums catholic school should presumably be catholic, but I think some catholic schools actually do accept non catholic kids. They shouldn't need to be forced to pray and sing hymns if they are Catholics. I think it's sensible that only Catholics go to catholic schools, I mean non Catholics are just going to be learning about something they don't even believe in so what's the point. However I do agree with you that it's quite unfair for parents to enforce religious beliefs onto their child, especially if the child is unwilling. Religion does not make up a person's entire life. Religion should always be a choice.

[Lovelife090994]

Catholic schools are just that, Catholic. If you don't like it then you can save the money and legality and go to a public school. I hate how religion is often not a choice... So many Christians see choice as bad and are disappointed thag not everyone is Christian. Even when one is grown like me we have to live in the broom closet or whatever religious closet from fear of eviction, disowning, and ridicule. In most cases a child isn't able to voice their opinions and even in Catholic schools the non Christian is ostracized or threatened to be expelled, especially with gay students. This is a problem that blurs the rights and violations line because people have a right to be religious. Private organizations have freedoms to refuse service, but what if these beliefs are discriminatory? For instance, in Houston, TX here a gay student is being told to repent or be expelled. Christian schools tend to be better funded and you'd think would be more loving and accepting. What do you do then?

[phuckphace]

what Karkat said.

Overall strongly dislike how people aren't given a choice anymore, and I believe this is because if given a choice after education, people would go 'off' religion, making it lose influence.

lol complaining about religious influence in the UK is like complaining that Saudi Arabia has too many Christians. I'm actually surprised Catholic schools haven't been legislated out of existence because they were too triggering for Muslims :lol3:

[Professor Moopicorn]

Well I'm just going to put this out there. I go to a Christian school at the moment (and am a Christian by CHOISE and was before I came to this school) and I think it's a great school for Christians and non Christians alike. We aren't as religious as the catholic schools, being forced to pray before we eat and whatnot, but we do pray at assembly's and in some classes and no one has a problem with it. Basically all my friends here are non Christian and they don't feel like it's being "crammed down their throat" at all. Infact, the teachers even say that if students don't believe in God or aren't religious, they don't need to pray or do anything they wouldn't normally do. The only thing they are told to do is to bow their heads in prayer as to not distract people. Christian schools function basically like any other school, except we pray now and then and do the odd devotion in assembly.
I think the main thing that people don't get about Christian schools and Christianity in General is that we are simply putting the word of God out there for those who are willing to listen. We don't force it on anyone. If you come to a Christian school, we don't nessecarily expect you to follow a Christian life and we will respect your choise. We only ask that you respect ours and not think we all fall under the same religious streyotypes. I know there are some people out there who claim to be Christian but do try and force it on people, but the majority or us only preach to those who are willing to listen.

[Arkansasguy]

I really hate how religion is forced down the throats of the young at schools;

My step mum works at a strong Catholic primary school and the pupils are FORCED to pray/thank before their meals whilst having to sing hymns.
They also have to be a Catholic to go to the school which is hugely unfair, especially if, say, the places were limited in said town and they had to go to this school.

I also think parents are one of the main reasons behind this, it's totally unfair to make your child go to church when they are at an age where they cannot decide what their believe.
Overall strongly dislike how people aren't given a choice anymore, and I believe this is because if given a choice after education, people would go 'off' religion, making it lose influence.

Are people given a choice about whether or not to learn about science, history, math or the like?

[Dennis98]

Religious and usual public schools aren't same .. We have also Muslim's religious schools that are same as all religious schools . No one force you to go in that school , you can change it . Situation is totally different at public and most of private schools .

[Katie96xox]

I'm not sure what else people expect when they enrol at Catholic schools other than a Catholic based education. Having religion in public schools is certainly a debatable topic and I think in that situation the parents should be able to opt for their child to attend religion classes. But complaining about Catholic beliefs in a Catholic school? Anyone who is surprised and outraged by the religious elements doesn't really have to worry because sooner or later they'll realise that with their intellect school is not really for them.

[LoganP1]

They also have to be a Catholic to go to the school which is hugely unfair, especially if, say, the places were limited in said town and they had to go to this school.

Not all Catholic schools are like this though. I have been attending a Catholic college preparatory school since my Freshman year, and they openly accept people of all religions to enroll. But really, I fail to see the point of enrolling into a Catholic school if you don't want to experience the religious aspects of their educational system.

[Typhlosion]

I'm not sure what else people expect when they enrol at Catholic schools other than a Catholic based education.

Problem: it's usually not the children opting for X or Y school in the first place, but the parents' decision.

Religion isn't necessarily like a body modification that stays with you for life; you can usually choose what you want to believe in when you grow up.

Yet people don't study child development because it can be easily overridden when older. Except that's not the case.

[Kia-ria]

I went to a Catholic high school because it was netter than the horrible public school. While I agree with the praying and whatnot, I do not agree that they should make us go to confession 2 or 3 times a year. Especially since the school accepted those of all religions. I was Baptized as Catholic, wals Confirmed as Catholic, but didn't feel Catholic. But hey, being one got me a discount. Anyways. I know atheists, muslims, Jews, all sorts of people with different beliefs attending that school. The confession shouldn't be forced. Evetn I just sat in the pew awkwardly for about an hour or more. Not wanting to go up.
The classes, prayers, and masses, however, I can understand. The Eucharist is not forced upon anyone and it was often encouraged not to receive it if you didn't really believe and weren't Catholic (:

[That's the Spirit]

My point is, why should parents and schools force religion on the young who cannot form their own opinions, primary schools start aged 5.

Five years is not enough to understand arguments for and against religion, by default, people should not have any ideologies forced upon themselves. If it's for them then they will follow that belief.

About the school being exclusively Catholic, the town i'm from has very short numbers in schools meaning some non Catholic parents (and children) have to send their kid to these schools where they will be forced to practise Catholic traditions and beliefs. This, of course, is totally unfair on the children.

I'd like to 'edit' my point slightly, I believe schools with exclusive religious beliefs should be separated from the Government funded schools. Any religious schools should be funded by the church, not the money of the taxpayer, but that's another issue.

[Arkansasguy]

My point is, why should parents and schools force religion on the young who cannot form their own opinions, primary schools start aged 5.

Five years is not enough to understand arguments for and against religion, by default, people should not have any ideologies forced upon themselves. If it's for them then they will follow that belief.

About the school being exclusively Catholic, the town i'm from has very short numbers in schools meaning some non Catholic parents (and children) have to send their kid to these schools where they will be forced to practise Catholic traditions and beliefs. This, of course, is totally unfair on the children.

I'd like to 'edit' my point slightly, I believe schools with exclusive religious beliefs should be separated from the Government funded schools. Any religious schools should be funded by the church, not the money of the taxpayer, but that's another issue.

1. The Church doesn't force anyone to receive sacraments. Nor are non-Catholics even allowed to.

2. Should young children be "forced" by their parents to be vaccinated?

[Lovelife090994]

1. The Church doesn't force anyone to receive sacraments. Nor are non-Catholics even allowed to.

2. Should young children be "forced" by their parents to be vaccinated?

No argument, red herring.

[Sugaree]

I really hate how religion is forced down the throats of the young at schools;

My step mum works at a strong Catholic primary school and the pupils are FORCED to pray/thank before their meals whilst having to sing hymns.
They also have to be a Catholic to go to the school which is hugely unfair, especially if, say, the places were limited in said town and they had to go to this school.

I also think parents are one of the main reasons behind this, it's totally unfair to make your child go to church when they are at an age where they cannot decide what their believe.
Overall strongly dislike how people aren't given a choice anymore, and I believe this is because if given a choice after education, people would go 'off' religion, making it lose influence.

>worried about children being taught religion at a school that bases its curriculum off of religion

That's the point of a Catholic school. The same goes if it were a Protestant, Islamic, or Judaic school. If it is a private school, the state has no right to interfere in what they teach the children. Unless it is a publicly funded school, you have no right to complain about it.

Going to your point about children being "forced" into learning religion, what right have you to decide how parents want their children educated? Based on my experience in Catholic schools, I had a very moral based education. We had maths, sciences, arts and the like with religious influence only coming into play when we were doing Bible study. I would much rather have my children educated in a school that instills good morals instead of one that fosters an environment of hostility towards differing, non-conformist opinions.

[Arkansasguy]

No argument

This is funny. Your post contains a description of itself.

[Lovelife090994]

This is funny. Your post contains a description of itself.

You really can't fathom why religion isn't always a good thing can you?

[Arkansasguy]

You really can't fathom why religion isn't always a good thing can you?

An excess of religion (superstition) or misplaced religion (idolatry) is bad. But there's no situation where religion is inappropriate.

[fairmaiden]

Problem: it's usually not the children opting for X or Y school in the first place, but the parents' decision.



Yet people don't study child development because it can be easily overridden when older. Except that's not the case.
My point is; if someone truly wants to be an athiest when they're older, that's their choice. If someone truly wants to be religious when they're older, that's their choice. No-one can or should stop them.

[Lovelife090994]

An excess of religion (superstition) or misplaced religion (idolatry) is bad. But there's no situation where religion is inappropriate.

What!? Do you honestly think that religion is always appropriate everywhere?

[Arkansasguy]

What!? Do you honestly think that religion is always appropriate everywhere?

I can see no situation where it would be inappropriate.

[Lovelife090994]

I can see no situation where it would be inappropriate.

Extremism maybe, or to build a religious monument on public government property perhaps like Roy Moore's Ten Commandments plaque he fought over to have removed... I can think.of many more but they aren't germane to this.

[Arkansasguy]

Extremism maybe, or to build a religious monument on public government property perhaps like Roy Moore's Ten Commandments plaque he fought over to have removed... I can think.of many more but they aren't germane to this.

Extremism is too vague. It's generally used as an all-purpose insult, but even taken literally, it can describe either good, neutral, or bad actions. For example, raping children is extreme, veganism is extreme, and hiding Jews in WWII was extreme. So you'll need to be more specific by what you mean by this.

It was entirely appropriate for him to set up that monument.

[Isabella_]

If you go to a religious school your parents will have signed that they agree you will be exposed to religious teaching

It should be allowed in public schools in a cultural education way, not a pushing on people way
I don't care if the neighbourhood is majority that religion, if tax payers fund it, you can't push a religion

[That's the Spirit]

I don't care if the neighbourhood is majority that religion, if tax payers fund it, you can't push a religion

This is what I was trying to get at.

[Lovelife090994]

Extremism is too vague. It's generally used as an all-purpose insult, but even taken literally, it can describe either good, neutral, or bad actions. For example, raping children is extreme, veganism is extreme, and hiding Jews in WWII was extreme. So you'll need to be more specific by what you mean by this.

It was entirely appropriate for him to set up that monument.

Now I know who I am dealing with. It is illegal to put up religious sites on government and public property unless it's private like a church, then either all religions or none. Extremism such as fundamentalism, don't play dumb.

[Arkansasguy]

Now I know who I am dealing with. It is illegal to put up religious sites on government and public property unless it's private like a church, then either all religions or none. Extremism such as fundamentalism, don't play dumb.

Correct, I am not in favor of secularism.

The word fundamentalism can be used in two ways. It can be used as a general purpose insult, like extremism, if that's how you're using it then you'll need to be more specific, or it can be used to refer to the specific Protestant religious movement which self-identifies as fundamentalist, if that's how you're using it, then I'd agree that it's bad as it contains false beliefs about the faith, but their problem is not that they're too religious.

[Vlerchan]

But there's no situation where religion is inappropriate.
What about within the private lives of people who don't want religion in their private lives?

What about within instructions on the natural science?

---

There's also a number of other places where I don't think religion belongs.

But I won't bother since we'll be for sure talking past each other.

[Arkansasguy]

What about within the private lives of people who don't want religion in their private lives?

I'd say that such a desire is wrong and should be changed.

[/QUOTE]What about within instructions on the natural sciences.[/QUOTE]

Keep in mind that I'm using religion in the strict sense, to refer to the worship,and piety owed to God. Not to related matters such as doctrine.

There's no reason why religion would be wrong in a science class (praying, etc.). Although Christian doctrine would be beyond the scope.

[Vlerchan]

I'd say that such a desire is wrong and should be changed.
This seems like a normative claim. You originally made a positive claim.

Keep in mind that I'm using religion in the strict sense, to refer to the worship,and piety owed to God. Not to related matters such as doctrine.
That's interesting. Though as far as I am aware you still favour imposing doctrine on people right?

I'd presumed your claim was made with reference to that.

---

It's also the case though that not all religions hold to a god figure though.

Does this mean for the sake of this discussion we are narrowing down religion to mean "belief in god".

[DerBear]

Okay so I think like some have pointed out here. If you go to a Catholic School then guess what? You're kind of expected to be Catholic or have strong Catholic values and it has a right to be Catholic Religious Focused.

Now parents teaching their children there religion isn't necessarily a bad thing. At the heart of what religion is....religion is a set of values and beliefs that essentially teach social behaviour e.g. Christianity has the 10 commandments but what exactly are they? They are a list of morals that teach behaviour.

Now obviously there is a lot more to religion but what the heart religion represents is a basis of beliefs and morals which isn't necessarily bad.

Now the whole debate of at 'what age' should religion be taught is kind of pointless, religion needs to be within schools to provide education on religion in order for beliefs to be respected and for people to be educated on religion.

Parents do have a right to introduce their child to a religion that they follow as long as they don't enforce this on a child in a way if they don't want to follow it.

[Miserabilia]

I guess it depends on where you're living.

Over here there are public and catholic/reformed christian schools, the only real difference I think is the way they are funded.

I went to a catholic school , and even though we had to remember a prayer to do daily, only one child in my class of 30 beleived in God and only one teacher in the school.

[Thunderstorm]

I really hate how religion is forced down the throats of the young at schools;

My step mum works at a strong Catholic primary school and the pupils are FORCED to pray/thank before their meals whilst having to sing hymns.
They also have to be a Catholic to go to the school which is hugely unfair, especially if, say, the places were limited in said town and they had to go to this school.

I also think parents are one of the main reasons behind this, it's totally unfair to make your child go to church when they are at an age where they cannot decide what their believe.
Overall strongly dislike how people aren't given a choice anymore, and I believe this is because if given a choice after education, people would go 'off' religion, making it lose influence.

Well, would a Jew go to a Catholic school? Would a Catholic go to a Hebrew school? I think not.

Parents can do what they want with their kids until they are legally adults. What they do beyond that point is entirely up to them.

[Vlerchan]

Well, would a Jew go to a Catholic school? Would a Catholic go to a Hebrew school? I think not.
I knew Muslims and Protestants and Hindus who attended the same Roman Catholic school as me:

It offered a good education.

Parents can do what they want with their kids until they are legally adults.
Parents can't. For example parents can't choose not to school their children at all.

[Thunderstorm]

I knew Muslims and Protestants and Hindus who attended the same Roman Catholic school as me:

It offered a good education.



There are many schools like that! However, most parents wouldn't want their kids exposed to another religion like that. Catholic schools are known for proper education, however, Jewish academies require that you must abide by certain rules (such as yarmulkes, head to toe clothing, etc.) so most people besides Jews wouldn't attend them.

[tovaris]

I think shcools should keep away from such hanus acts.
I also think there should be no private schools.

[Leprous]

Catholic parents send their children to a Catholic school, etc. It's a simple as that. I am raised by a Catholic family in a Catholic school and yet I'm not religious. Here a ton of schools are Catholic, why? Because we're a country that is mostly Catholic.

I don't understand why some people can't handle the fact religion is being thought at a religious school. It makes sense.

[DoodleSnap]

To me, the purpose of education is to expose and inspire children, to allow them to form their own opinions and make their own decisions later on down-the-line. Therefore, I think that children should be exposed to many religions, in the same way they should be exposed to many different schools of though or political ideologies.

[NewZealand]

I really hate how religion is forced down the throats of the young at schools;

My step mum works at a strong Catholic primary school and the pupils are FORCED to pray/thank before their meals whilst having to sing hymns.
They also have to be a Catholic to go to the school which is hugely unfair, especially if, say, the places were limited in said town and they had to go to this school.

I also think parents are one of the main reasons behind this, it's totally unfair to make your child go to church when they are at an age where they cannot decide what their believe.
Overall strongly dislike how people aren't given a choice anymore, and I believe this is because if given a choice after education, people would go 'off' religion, making it lose influence.

I couldn't disagree with you more, I've corse they are going to have to pray at a catholic school! Are you kidding?!?!? If it were a public school id have a completely different opinion. But it's not! It's catholic. I also agree with kids going to church if their families do, it teaches them some good morals and if they want to believe something else when they are older they can and it doesn't change that, Catholicism is actually quite an open religion that you can mould to what you believe or don't. And as for whether the 'said' school is in a certain place, well good on the Catholics! They pay for the school, they are usually not government funded.
And as for the choice part, are you serious?! Children should do what their parents say until they leave home, no one can force you to believe something. Parents have every choice on what school to send their kids too. People are given a choice to religion. Many children go to non catholic schools, the higher percentage of children do, yet religion still exists?

[Leprous]

I couldn't agree with you more, I've corse they are going to have to pray at s catholic school! Are you kidding?!?!? If it were a public school id have a completely different opinion. But it's not! It's catholic. I also agree with kids going to church if their families do, it teaches them some good morals and if they want to believe something else when they are older they can and it doesn't change that, Catholicism is actually quite an open religion that you can mould to what you believe or don't. And as for whether the 'said' school is in a certain place, well good on the Catholics! They pay for the school, they are usually not government funded.
And as for the choice part, are you serious?! Children should do what their parents say until they leave home, no one can force you to believe something. Parents have every choice on what school to send their kids too. People are given a choice to religion. Many children go to non catholic schools, the higher percentage of children do, yet religion still exists?

"No one can force you to believe something" yet you say it's good children are forced to go to church with their families.

Also, as for the "yet religion excists part" , may I ask you were you found out most children don't go to religious schools? Sincr when does a Catholic school have anything to do with religion excisting? Not sure but yeah, there is more than 1 religion buddy.

[NewZealand]

"No one can force you to believe something" yet you say it's good children are forced to go to church with their families.

Also, as for the "yet religion excists part" , may I ask you were you found out most children don't go to religious schools? Sincr when does a Catholic school have anything to do with religion excisting? Not sure but yeah, there is more than 1 religion buddy.

I stick with my previous comment, no one can force you to believe something. As I said, going to church when your young doesn't really do any harm, shows you some good morals, but other than that it can not fource you to believe in God, as soon as you start learning about evolution( which is taught at catholic schools) you will find what you belive in, because everyone's beliefs differ.

I never said that there was only one religion, but in the initial question, is there any other religions mentioned? I'm sticking on theme... Are you joking?!!! I've corse most children don't go to catholic schools, in the USA, there are just off 99,000 public schools, where as there are around 7,000 catholic schools. You don't need to be good at math to know which number is bigger.

As for the 'yet religion still exists' part, what I'm saying that the the percentage of catholic families is higher then the percentage of families that send their children to catholic schools. So what I'm trying to express is that religion can and does exist out side of a catholic school, and that children that don't go to a cathic school still can be catholic.

[Leprous]

I stick with my previous comment, no one can force you to believe something. As I said, going to church when your young doesn't really do any harm, shows you some good morals, but other than that it can not fource you to believe in God, as soon as you start learning about evolution( which is taught at catholic schools) you will find what you belive in, because everyone's beliefs differ.

I never said that there was only one religion, but in the initial question, is there any other religions mentioned? I'm sticking on theme... Are you joking?!!! I've corse most children don't go to catholic schools, in the USA, there are just off 99,000 public schools, where as there are around 7,000 catholic schools. You don't need to be good at math to know which number is bigger.

As for the 'yet religion still exists' part, what I'm saying that the the percentage of catholic families is higher then the percentage of families that send their children to catholic schools. So what I'm trying to express is that religion can and does exist out side of a catholic school, and that children that don't go to a cathic school still can be catholic.

So do realise you're making no sense right? Children can be sent to a catholic school yet they can't learn about religion. And since when is the US equal to every school in all catholic countries?

Also, kids can go to church but they cannot learn about religion? Honestly nothing you say makes sense.

[DylanDanger]

Private schools can do what they want, since they are private so if they want to focus on religion they can. it would be different if it was public schools doing that. but catholic schools aren't public schools.

[NewZealand]

So do realise you're making no sense right? Children can be sent to a catholic school yet they can't learn about religion. And since when is the US equal to every school in all catholic countries?

Also, kids can go to church but they cannot learn about religion? Honestly nothing you say makes sense.

Hold on, I never said 'children can be sent to a catholic school yet they can't learn about religion'
So il just ignore that comment, because it's not relevant.

The reason that I used USA as an example is because a high percentage of people on this sight seem to be from USA, but if you want stats from other countries.
Il use continents because there are less.
Oceania/Australasia : a medium of 14% catholic schools

Asia: the numbers are so small it's almost non existent, except for in the Phillipines, where 85% of people are catholic, but even there, there are less then 600 catholic schools compared to the 23,200 other schools.

Europe: the uk had a stand out amount of catholic pupils, in Ireland 80% of secondary school students go to a catholic school. But however that doesn't change that only about 8% of schools in the uk are catholic schools. Admittedly I missed out a large area of Europe, (the stats aren't as easy to find) or when I did find them, it was country by country and I didn't want to spend the time calculating an average.

And as for your last comment, il also ignore that because I never said that 'kids can go to church but they cannot learn about religion'
Your saying that I'm not making sense, perhaps you just need to read the whole sentence. There may be grammatical and spelling errors, but it should still be readable.

[Vlerchan]

[I]n Ireland 80% of secondary school students go to a catholic school. But however that doesn't change that only about 8% of schools in the uk are catholic schools.
Because Ireland isn't in the UK right?

---

It's also the case in Ireland that 92% of primary schools are Roman Catholic.

[Leprous]

Hold on, I never said 'children can be sent to a catholic school yet they can't learn about religion'
So il just ignore that comment, because it's not relevant.

The reason that I used USA as an example is because a high percentage of people on this sight seem to be from USA, but if you want stats from other countries.
Il use continents because there are less.
Oceania/Australasia : a medium of 14% catholic schools

Asia: the numbers are so small it's almost non existent, except for in the Phillipines, where 85% of people are catholic, but even there, there are less then 600 catholic schools compared to the 23,200 other schools.

Europe: the uk had a stand out amount of catholic pupils, in Ireland 80% of secondary school students go to a catholic school. But however that doesn't change that only about 8% of schools in the uk are catholic schools. Admittedly I missed out a large area of Europe, (the stats aren't as easy to find) or when I did find them, it was country by country and I didn't want to spend the time calculating an average.

And as for your last comment, il also ignore that because I never said that 'kids can go to church but they cannot learn about religion'
Your saying that I'm not making sense, perhaps you just need to read the whole sentence. There may be grammatical and spelling errors, but it should still be readable.

About your stats of Asia, do note most Asians in the southeast are idear Hindu/Buddists or Muslims, and I'm pretty sure those have religious schools aswell. But what you're saying is religion can't be forced on children in school yet the only schools doinh this are religious school which makes sense.

Yeah, logic.

[NewZealand]

About your stats of Asia, do note most Asians in the southeast are idear Hindu/Buddists or Muslims, and I'm pretty sure those have religious schools aswell. But what you're saying is religion can't be forced on children in school yet the only schools doinh this are religious school which makes sense.

Yeah, logic.

I understand what you are saying about the Asian stats, but however, this is about catholic schools.

Once more I need to tell you to read the post. Believing! No one can fource you to belive! It doesn't matter whether ou go to a catholic school and are in a catholic family, that does not mean that you will belive in God, because belief is something that no one can dictate! Religion being forced on children will not be the main influence on what they belive in the long run. Or vice versa, just because a child comes from a non catholic family, and goes to a non catholic school, does not mean that when the child gets older it won't become catholic.

[Vlerchan]

Believing! No one can fource you to belive!
Do you think people can be strongly influenced to believe something?

Lots of religious families produce children that of that religion.

[NewZealand]

Do you think people can be strongly influenced to believe something?

Lots of religious families produce children that of that religion.

I do think that your beliefs can be influenced, by introduction. For example, If say, a Muslim, from an Arabic family and all that this person has knowen is being Muslim, then the chances of them becoming a johovahs whiteness is very slim.
Though many religious families produce children of their religion, it is also common for them to produce Athiests, or people who are just not fussed about religion.

[DylanDanger]

Do you think people can be strongly influenced to believe something?

Lots of religious families produce children that of that religion.

but just because they are the same religion as their families does not mean they were forced or strongly influenced to believe it. I know i'm Christian because of things i have gone through, not because my family made me be or influenced me to be.

[Vlerchan]

Though many religious families produce children of their religion, it is also common for them to produce Athiests, or people who are just not fussed about religion.
In the context of societies where people are not so fussed about religion:

Consider 60 years ago when this wasn't so much the case. Or even just more religious communities. The general trend was/is different.

but just because they are the same religion as their families does not mean they were forced or strongly influenced to believe it.
Sure. People might become some religion for a number of reasons. I never claimed otherwise.

But I still think the extent in which religious families produce people of that religion is indicative of the strength of influence.

[DylanDanger]

But I still think the extent in which religious families produce people of that religion is indicative of the strength of influence.

Do you get upset or feel the same way, if a liberal family has kids who are liberal? or what about a athiest family that has athiest kids? Or a family of doctors who has kids who become doctors, are they also forcing their kids to believe the same? it is stupid to say that kids who come from religious families and are religious are that way because they were forced or strongly influenced to be that way.

[Vlerchan]

Do you get upset or feel the same way, if a liberal family has kids who are liberal?
I never set I was upset in the first place.

it is stupid to say that kids who come from religious families and are religious are that way because they were forced or strongly influenced to be that way.
Ok. Then what explanation do you have for children being more likely than not to follow the faith of their parents?

[DylanDanger]

I never set I was upset in the first place.


Ok. Then what explanation do you have for children being more likely than not to follow the faith of their parents?

its not because they were forced or strongly influenced to blindly believe what parents do. you also ignored my question.

[Vlerchan]

its not because they were forced or strongly influenced to blindly believe what parents do.
I never used the word blindly. I just said that parents influence their children's decision.

It's discussed in this article (http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/01/us/book-explores-ways-faith-is-kept-or-lost-over-generations.html?_r=0) which refers to this book (http://www.amazon.com/Families-Faith-Religion-Passed-Generations/dp/0199948658).

you also ignored my question.
I misread.

I feel more or less the same. And no to the second part, I'm not discussing force.

[DylanDanger]

by saying parents are strongly influencing implies kids believe what they do blindly, and that they are forced to believe that way.

if you feel the same, then your question shouldnt be about religion and should be "why do kids follow path of parents in beliefs and actions", and has nothing to do with religion in schools so completely off topic.

Catholic schools have religion in them because they are private schools. Now religion in public schools would be different. that would be forcing people to believe things they don't.

[Vlerchan]

by saying parents are strongly influencing implies kids believe what they do blindly, and that they are forced to believe that way.
I guess if you want to interpret it that way feel free to.

But I don't believe independent thought exists at all so you can be sure there's no malicious intent behind my statements.

if you feel the same, then your question shouldnt be about religion and should be "why do kids follow path of parents in beliefs and actions", and has nothing to do with religion in schools so completely off topic.
Just because it might occur with other aspects of belief and action doesn't mean it can't be narrowed to this specific context and I also wasn't asking a question.

But regardless I'm cool with ending the discussion if you want to.

Catholic schools have religion in them because they are private schools.
I went to a public-funded Roman Catholic school at both primary and secondary level.

[DylanDanger]

I guess if you want to interpret it that way feel free to.

But I don't believe independent thought exists at all so you can be sure there's no malicious intent behind my statements.


Just because it might occur with other aspects of belief and action doesn't mean it can't be narrowed to this specific context and I also wasn't asking a question.

But regardless I'm cool with ending the discussion if you want to.


I went to a public-funded Roman Catholic school at both primary and secondary level.

I'm not saying discussion has to be ended, just saying that what you are accusing religion of doing, happens with many other things, so why focus on using your reasoning to make religion look bad, when the same thing happens with everything. and saying you don't think independant thought exists is rediculous. and makes you comments sound even more malicous. So because i am religious i don't have indepentant thoughts?

If it was publicly funded then legally can't have prayer in school, or require people to pray, so therefore no one is getting heavily influenced to believe a certain way.

[Vlerchan]

I'm not saying discussion has to be ended, just saying that what you are accusing religion of doing, happens with many other things, so why focus on using your reasoning to make religion look bad, when the same thing happens with everything.
I'm focusing on religion because the thread is about religion.

and saying you don't think independant thought exists is rediculous. and makes you comments sound even more malicous.
Lol. I get this a lot.

You are just a construction of your genetics and socialisation:

Your thoughts are just a process ungoing in your material brain based on the above.

So because i am religious i don't have indepentant thoughts?
No. Because you exist in the material world of cause-and-effect.

I don't have independent thoughts either.

If it was publicly funded then legally can't have prayer in school, or require people to pray, so therefore no one is getting heavily influenced to believe a certain way.
I don't live in the US. I live in Ireland:

In Ireland it's legal to make me study the bible - which I've done - and have me pray in school - which I've done - and drag me off to church services during school hours - which I've also done. During 2nd (age 8) and 6th (age 12) class a large a large amount of time is devoted to preparing for your First Communion and Confirmation.

[DylanDanger]

I'm focusing on religion because the thread is about religion.


Lol. I get this a lot.

You are just a construction of your genetics and socialisation:

Your thoughts are just a process ungoing in your material brain based on the above.


No. Because you exist in the material world of cause-and-effect.

I don't have independent thoughts either.


I don't live in the US. I live in Ireland:

In Ireland it's legal to make me study the bible - which I've done - and have me pray in school - which I've done - and drag me off to church services during school hours - which I've also done. During 2nd (age 8) and 6th (age 12) class a large a large amount of time is devoted to preparing for your First Communion and Confirmation.

so then if you don't have independent thoughts, you identify as a christian/catholic and believe in christianity and god and the bible because thats what you were told you were.

saying so one has individual thoughts is stupid. if that was true every single person would believe in the same exact things, act the same exact way. but thats not how people are at all.

[Vlerchan]

so then if you don't have independent thoughts, you identify as a christian/catholic and believe in christianity and god and the bible because thats what you were told you were.
No.

It's more like this. You took in information through your sense organs and process it within your brain. You then produced a reaction based on your genetics and previous socialisation. This reaction happened to be acceptance. Or at least that's it in its most simplest terms.

This is the same process that Atheists undergo for reference.

saying so one has individual thoughts is stupid. if that was true every single person would believe in the same exact things, act the same exact way. but thats not how people are at all.
Independent and Individual thoughts are too different things.

People have individual thoughts because no two people have the exact same base of genetics and socialisation.

[DylanDanger]

by saying people don't have independent thoughts, you are saying peoples thoughts are dependent on others and other things. so people would all think the same, since there thoughts are all dependant on some thing. and you just proved that you have independent thoughts since you aren't christian, because if you didn't have independant thoughts you would be dependent on the religion and what you were told, and you and everyone else at the school would think and be the exact same.

[Vlerchan]

by saying people don't have independent thoughts, you are saying peoples thoughts are dependent on others and other things.
That's close enough I guess.

so people would all think the same, since there thoughts are all dependant on some thing.
Not at all.

I have a different set of experiences and a different set of genetics to every other person on this planet.

and you just proved that you have independent thoughts since you aren't christian, because if you didn't have independant thoughts you would be dependent on the religion and what you were told, and you and everyone else at the school would think and be the exact same.
I have individual thoughts.

These thoughts are dependent on (i.e. not independent of) an inclination towards rationalism and experience with arguments for irreligious positions.

[Leprous]

I do think that your beliefs can be influenced, by introduction. For example, If say, a Muslim, from an Arabic family and all that this person has knowen is being Muslim, then the chances of them becoming a johovahs whiteness is very slim.
Though many religious families produce children of their religion, it is also common for them to produce Athiests, or people who are just not fussed about religion.

There's a dirrence between having religion forced onto you and having religion thaught at school you know.

[NewZealand]

There's a dirrence between having religion forced onto you and having religion thaught at school you know.

I never used the word 'forced' in that quote, so make quote what I have said that you don't agree with.

[Seth Green]

I mean to be fair it is a Catholic school. When teachers get religious in public schools though...that's whole new ball park. Like I've seen teachers in public schools with BIBLE QUOTES on the walls! That is just not ok.

[DylanDanger]

I mean to be fair it is a Catholic school. When teachers get religious in public schools though...that's whole new ball park. Like I've seen teachers in public schools with BIBLE QUOTES on the walls! That is just not ok.

i agree.

[NewZealand]

I mean to be fair it is a Catholic school. When teachers get religious in public schools though...that's whole new ball park. Like I've seen teachers in public schools with BIBLE QUOTES on the walls! That is just not ok.

Almost agree with you.
Except for the quote part, I don't see anything wrong with having a bible quote on the wall, I find it no different from having any other quote on the wall, if it has a constructive message then it's proactive to have it there.

[DylanDanger]

i'm christian but i don't think christianity should be everywhere. if it is i do thing other religions need to be represented and i hate how sometimes people who are christians don't accept others even though the bible preaches acceptance. like my school district put out school calenders and only had christian holidays on it and when people from other religions asked for holidays to be put on calender, the school district just took off the christian holidays instead of adding the jewish and muslim holidays and then complained christianity was being attacked and its like no it isn't, no one asked for christian holidays to be taken off, just asked for other holidays to be added on but seems like a lot of christians like playing victims and it is annoying

[Hyper]

No.

It's more like this. You took in information through your sense organs and process it within your brain. You then produced a reaction based on your genetics and previous socialisation. This reaction happened to be acceptance. Or at least that's it in its most simplest terms.



That kind of sounds like a truly complicated way of explaining what ''experience'' is.

I know that's not exactly what it is and I know the theory you are ascribing to but just felt it kind of did :P

[Abhorrence]

I don't think anybody should be forced to pray or have a specific religion because of school. My school is good because we do Religious Studies but we learn about all of the religions. My teacher is a Christian and I am an Atheist and he says I do really well because I like to debate in a good way against the teachings, so my opinions are usually quite strong. He's my favourite teacher.