Vaccinations?

[Thunderstorm]

I normally don't post in Ramblings of the Wise but this is a topic I want to hear opinions on: Vaccinations. If you haven't heard, there has been a major measles outbreak in parts of the US, specifically densely populated coastal regions of California. NY has also had three cases. These are mainly a result of people not being vaccinated with the measles vaccine.

In terms of all vaccines, do you think there is a link between autism and vaccines? Do you think parents are justified in not vaccinating your children? Do you think there should be a law about vaccinations from birth?

I think it's very stupid to not vaccinate your child. Doctors have repeatedly said that there is no link between Autism and vaccinations. That's just preposterous to me. Even if there was a link, would you rather your child develop Autism or die from not being vaccinated? I'd take a mentally ill child over a dead child any day. If my child died from an illness that could have been prevented by just one vaccination, I would have way too much guilt.

[Vlerchan]

In terms of all vaccines, do you think there is a link between autism and vaccines?[1] Do you think parents are justified in not vaccinating your children?[2] Do you think there should be a law about vaccinations from birth?[3]
[1]: No.

[2]: No.

[3]: Yes.

[sunnieseason]

I don't know enough about it to say if vaccines cause autism, but I'm skeptical of things that have a lot of propaganda attached to them. Like here in the US they are really pushing the flu vaccines (which they admitted doesn't work) and they are also pushing that gardisil shot for girls. At my school they keep telling us we should take this shot and that it protects against cancer, but no one ever seems to be able to explain it. And when they do explain it it makes no sense. Oh it only protects you from like one out of a hundred different types of viruses which may* cause cancer (may as in we're not 100% sure")

Also, if it's so good for us then why does it need to be forced on us?

[dirtyboxer55]

I don't know enough about it to say if vaccines cause autism, but I'm skeptical of things that have a lot of propaganda attached to them. Like here in the US they are really pushing the flu vaccines (which they admitted doesn't work) and they are also pushing that gardisil shot for girls. At my school they keep telling us we should take this shot and that it protects against cancer, but no one ever seems to be able to explain it. And when they do explain it it makes no sense. Oh it only protects you from like one out of a hundred different types of viruses which may* cause cancer (may as in we're not 100% sure")

Also, if it's so good for us then why does it need to be forced on us?

this is the reason diseases are coming back

[sunnieseason]

this is the reason diseases are coming back

Why, because I'm skeptical of a government that lies about everything?

[Vlerchan]

I don't know enough about it to say if vaccines cause autism[.]
The first systematic international review of childhood vaccinations led by researchers from the University of Sydney has found no evidence of a link to the development of autism or autism spectrum disorders (ASDs).

The comprehensive review, published in medical journal Vaccine, examined five cohort studies involving more than 1.25 million children, an additional five case-control studies involving more than 9,920 children obtained via systematic searches of international medical databases MEDLINE, PubMed, EBASE and Google Scholar up to April 2014.

http://www.autismspeaks.org/science/policy-statements/information-about-vaccines-and-autism

[...] flu vaccines (which they admitted doesn't work) [...]

While determining how well a flu vaccine works is challenging, in general, recent studies have supported the conclusion that flu vaccination benefits public health, especially when the flu vaccine is well matched to circulating flu viruses.

http://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/qa/vaccineeffect.htm?mobile=nocontent

The flu vaccine is a difficult one though. There's a lot of possible strains.

Oh it only protects you from like one out of a hundred different types of viruses which may* cause cancer (may as in we're not 100% sure")
In science there's no such thing as 100% sure.

I also don't see what doesn't make sense. Or at least it does to me.

Also, if it's so good for us then why does it need to be forced on us?
Because people like you exist.

[ImCoolBeans]

The doctor who first proposed this link between autism and vaccinations lost his medical license in his home country, has been sued for medical malpractice numerous times, and is more or less the laughing stock of the medical community. His name is Andrew Wakefield, proposed this study in 1998, in which he took blood samples from toddlers at his son's birthday party, and sent the world into hysteria. His study is not just considered to be wrong, it is considered to be fraudulent and deceitful. If you don't believe me, look it up.

There is no link between the MMR vaccination and autism. The hysteria caused by [-]Dr.[/-] Wakefield is still instilled in people, mostly those who are close to somebody with autism, from my own gathering, and is the reason why diseases like the measles are coming back. Diseases that we had the vaccination for long ago, and had dropped off of the radar almost completely in the first world.

[Thunderstorm]

I don't know enough about it to say if vaccines cause autism, but I'm skeptical of things that have a lot of propaganda attached to them. Like here in the US they are really pushing the flu vaccines (which they admitted doesn't work) and they are also pushing that gardisil shot for girls. At my school they keep telling us we should take this shot and that it protects against cancer, but no one ever seems to be able to explain it. And when they do explain it it makes no sense. Oh it only protects you from like one out of a hundred different types of viruses which may* cause cancer (may as in we're not 100% sure")

Also, if it's so good for us then why does it need to be forced on us?

Well, I got the HPV shot, which protects against STD's and Rectal Cancers. If I could get a vaccination rather than get a cancer later in life and regret not getting the vaccine, then I'm going to get that vaccine. Why take a chance with death?


The doctor who first proposed this link between autism and vaccinations lost his medical license in his home country, has been sued for medical malpractice numerous times, and is more or less the laughing stock of the medical community. His name is Andrew Wakefield, proposed this study in 1998, in which he took blood samples from toddlers at his son's birthday party, and sent the world into hysteria. His study is not just considered to be wrong, it is considered to be fraudulent and deceitful. If you don't believe me, look it up.

There is no link between the MMR vaccination and autism. The hysteria caused by [-]Dr.[/-] Wakefield is still instilled in people, mostly those who are close to somebody with autism, from my own gathering, and is the reason why diseases like the measles are coming back. Diseases that we had the vaccination for long ago, and had dropped off of the radar almost completely in the first world.

Well, I'm glad he lost his license. It's sad that so many of these people are so gullible. It's their loss.

Simple diseases that we have made preventable are making a come back due to over-cautious parents.

[DoodleSnap]

People need to stop treating ASD like it's a disease that can be caught and passed on. I think that people refusing to vaccinate their children are simply paranoid, and afraid of what the future may hold. In the same way that extreme conservatism fears change, these people fear the worst. The state really should make some sort of minor charge for those who don't properly vaccinate their children, in the same way people would be charged for not properly looking after their child. That is my $0.02, anyway.

[Babs]

In terms of all vaccines, do you think there is a link between autism and vaccines? People with autism are born with it. So no.
Do you think parents are justified in not vaccinating your children? No. I was never vaccinated, and I think it's a stroke of luck I've never been horridly sick.
Do you think there should be a law about vaccinations from birth? Not sure.

[sunnieseason]

I actually support vaccinations, but I think it's interesting to argue a point you don't always agree with from time to time....but really I'm curious about this stuff.

Just to throw this out there, but what if you were a vaccine maker who came up with a vaccine that didn't really work. Since you invested billions in researching it, would you be tempted to lobby your friends in the government to make it mandatory that everyone takes the shot so you won't lose any money?

(Don't hate me, just curious)

[Karkat]

As someone who is very possibly on the spectrum, vaccinations are important.

Vaccinations are important.

Vaccinations are important.

There are some who can't be vaccinated for various reasons- maybe they have a sensitivity to the vaccine. Vaccinating your kids lowers the chance that vulnerable kids will catch it. That's just one good reason that isn't completely obvious.

And even if vaccines DID cause autism... As someone has said above, we need to stop treating autism as if it's somehow worse than death. It may be hard for those with severe autism, and even moderate autism (hell, my life is pretty hard, and I'm a fairly high-functioning human being), but treating those who are autistic as damaged helps nothing.

[amgb]

Karkat Indeed.

I think it's simply up to the parents choice whether to vaccinate their child/children or not. If they choose not to then they'll just have to face the risks of contracting diseases and potentially deadly ones. In primary school we never got vaccinations but in highschool we did. But there was a form that parents needed to sign to permit it, and the majority did the vaccinations. I think it should become law because we need to take precautions and I reckon we'd all rather be safe than sorry. We don't want to end up with a disease-stricken population.

[Typhlosion]

Interestingly enough, Brazil passed through a Vaccine Revolt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccine_Revolt).

Vaccination should be mandatory and Autism is much more related to genetics and foetal development than anything else.

[Vlerchan]

Just to throw this out there, but what if you were a vaccine maker who came up with a vaccine that didn't really work. Since you invested billions in researching it, would you be tempted to lobby your friends in the government to make it mandatory that everyone takes the shot so you won't lose any money?
No. When it comes to light that the vaccine is a dud it would ruin the reputation of my firm and I'd probably lose all gains occurring through the multiple legal suits taken out against me.

---

Not that any sane government would allow that occur.

Or any researcher with future self-preservation in mind either.

---

And to the best of my knowledge self-funding of billions of dollars isn't how financing for this type of stuff works regardless.

[Miserabilia]

Vaccinations should not be a choice. It should be the norm.
I can't beleive people are allowed to place their superstitions above their childrens health.
Then again, people will be people and they'll do stupid things. Which is exactly why I think everyone needs to get vaccinated.

[sunnieseason]

Vaccinations should not be a choice. It should be the norm.
I can't beleive people are allowed to place their superstitions above their childrens health.
Then again, people will be people and they'll do stupid things. Which is exactly why I think everyone needs to get vaccinated.

People put all kinds of crazy fantasies before their children. Like here in the US people would put ideas like patriotism and nationalism before their kids, sending them off to die in useless wars.

[HUSTLEMAN]

Vaccinations are very useful and you know helps us not attract these diseases so that we actually have a fighting chance in having a life. This is what I believe and know as FACT. Unless vaccinations are against your religious beliefs then toy have no right to deny your child vaccinations that Errol give him a fighting chance in life. This is the most redundant debate I've ever seen. This is not debatable in any circumstance. Why is this a topic of debate anyway?

[Gamma Male]

We don't allow people to take vials of infectious diseases and open them up in public, why should we allow people to forgo vaccinations?

[Katie96xox]

There is no justification for parents not vaccinating their children. If you are willing to put your child's life in danger because you saw some bogus medical report from a third-rate doctor on a day time television interview about links to autism or any other shit like that then you are not fit to be a parent. If a parent chooses not to vaccinate their child and their child consequently dies from a disease that could have been avoided then the parents should be held responsible for the child's death and be criminally charged accordingly. Meanwhile some libertarians seem to be of the view that the choice should be left to the parents because it's their right to choose or something. To them I would like to know why they disregard the child's right to a life free from avoidable diseases. There should absolutely be laws requiring parents to vaccinate their children.

[NilnocK]

Vaccinations should absolutely be required. The idea that it's okay to endanger countless other young kids just because you don't know how science works is unbelieveable.