Is Heaven REAL, Or Fake? (The Afterlife)(Debate)

[Uranus]

DO NOT, make this an argument. This is just a thread to post our own ideas. It's not a place for arguments. I just want you to know this.


http://www.virtualteen.org/forums/showthread.php?t=219102
Similar to this ^ thread but I want to get to the point and see what you all believe. I'm thinking maybe this could be a major discussions/debate where we all can put in our ideas on the afterlife. So here's how it works.

You post your opinion on whether or not it's real, with a statement to back it up and so forth. And others do the same, and comment on others ideas so we can all get a better understanding on what happens after death.

So my question. Is it real or fake?

Red coloring removed. Only staff may post in red. -HN

[Dying Ember]

I don't believe in heaven the 'paradise'. Perhaps there's a place we go after death (and maybe there isn't) but I certainly don't believe it to be such an amazing perfect place we're told it is.

[fairmaiden]

I think Heaven is real. I don't read the bible that often, but I go to church sometimes and I really love the Catholic community. Although I think I kind of have a weird view on heaven though; I feel as though it would be similar to earth, just without pain, death, crime, etc. You'd get to see all of your passed loved ones, and stuff like that. And I also think that there would be a way for people to view their alive loved ones who are on earth.

So basically, I definitely believe in Heaven, although I don't have very clear ideas about what exactly is in heaven. I think the reason why I feel this way is because I'm not a strict Christian and very laid-back.

[Daniella98]

From my atheist point of view: when we die we die. The end

[Vlerchan]

I don't know.

Its existence isn't really something that can be debated about.

[Hudor]

Well I haven't died or know anyone who has returned from the dead so I can't exactly give any facts/statements to back my conceptions.

However I feel after death each being's energy disperses into the Universe. There may or may not be a place where they congregate and it may or may not take a new manifestation.

[Luminous]

I believe that when you die everything just stops, like a really good sleep or, even better, before you were born. You have no memory of that time, you simply didn't exist. I think that's what it's like. I just don't see how there could be any afterlife and we don't know about it. But I don't know for sure, obviously, and I have no facts to back me up - I guess we'll all find out eventually.

[Dennis98]

Last researches proved that human and animal soul really exist . It is based somewhere between heart and lungs , and they watched what is happening while dying , it goes up to brain , and then disappear . Question is , what is happening with it after you die ?! No matter , I believe that second , everlasting world really exist . And I think that it doesn't matter are you religious or not , I believe that all good souls go to heaven .

[Luminous]

Last researches proved that human and animal soul really exist . It is based somewhere between heart and lungs , and they watched what is happening while dying , it goes up to brain , and then disappear . Question is , what is happening with it after you die ?! No matter , I believe that second , everlasting world really exist . And I think that it doesn't matter are you religious or not , I believe that all good souls go to heaven .

Could you provide a link, please? I feel that if this was true it would be a lot better known.

[Dennis98]

Could you provide a link, please? I feel that if this was true it would be a lot better known.

I know link on Serbian language .. I found some on English , but I am not sure is it same explained as it was on Serbian .. Anyway :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xeh001ptDgo

http://www.spiritscienceandmetaphysics.com/new-scientific-theory-explains-the-soul-and-afterlife/

http://www.quantumconsciousness.org/

This article is Serbian aticle :

http://www.kurir.rs/otkrice-veka-dusa-postoji-clanak-488035


There are also articles that prove God exist .. They were examining DNA code , with some new technology , and when you assemble all that unique codes they saw that when you assemble them , that codes , you get : " In the beginning God created the heavens and the Earth" ...

[Perfectly Flawed]

I know link on Serbian language .. I found some on English , but I am not sure is it same explained as it was on Serbian .. Anyway :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xeh001ptDgo

http://www.spiritscienceandmetaphysics.com/new-scientific-theory-explains-the-soul-and-afterlife/

http://www.quantumconsciousness.org/

This article is Serbian aticle :

http://www.kurir.rs/otkrice-veka-dusa-postoji-clanak-488035


There are also articles that prove God exist .. They were examining DNA code , with some new technology , and when you assemble all that unique codes they saw that when you assemble them , that codes , you get : " In the beginning God created the heavens and the Earth" ...

None of that information has legitimate research behind it and it is not peer reviewed. It is religious people making fake studies to claim they are correct. As of now nothing proves a God or souls real, and nothing proves them fake.

[ImCoolBeans]

I don't know.

Its existence isn't really something that can be debated about.

I agree. I don't want to say yes it is fake or no it is not fake because I truly do not know, none of us do, and I think it is unwise to make an assumption that large.

My personal belief wants to say no, Heaven and Hell are not real in the sense of the church, but something similar may exist. All in all, I'm not really sure.

[Dennis98]

None of that information has legitimate research behind it and it is not peer reviewed. It is religious people making fake studies to claim they are correct. As of now nothing proves a God or souls real, and nothing proves them fake.

If you're religious , you don't need any research .. Why do you quoted me in that case ?! If you don't believe , that's your problem , keep it for yourself , I truly believe in God and Hell/Heaven and there is no human that can change my opinion , with or without scientific researches or with philosophy ... I posted that because of people who believe in God , not because atheists ... And , do you have legitimate argument to refute this research ?!

[Perfectly Flawed]

If you're religious , you don't need any research .. Why do you quoted me in that case ?! If you don't believe , that's your problem , keep it for yourself , I truly believe in God and Hell/Heaven and there is no human that can change my opinion , with or without scientific researches or with philosophy ... I posted that because of people who believe in God , not because atheists ... And , do you have legitimate argument to refute this research ?!

I'm not saying your belief is wrong, I'm saying that research is faulty because of extreme bias and lack of peer review. Just because the research is fake doesn't mean God isn't real.

I could easily create a research paper that says through extensive biological and astrological research we have determined the Big Bang was the creation of the Universe as we know it. Just because I wrote it down doesn't mean it's correct. Other scientists would call me out and it would never hold up through peer review. The research you cited is no different.

[Dennis98]

I'm not saying your belief is wrong, I'm saying that research is faulty because of extreme bias and lack of peer review. Just because the research is fake doesn't mean God isn't real.

I could easily create a research paper that says through extensive biological and astrological research we have determined the Big Bang was the creation of the Universe as we know it. Just because I wrote it down doesn't mean it's correct. Other scientists would call me out and it would never hold up through peer review. The research you cited is no different.

Do you have argument that this research isn't correct and that it is just some bullshit wrote on paper ?! Do you have argument or evidence to refute this research ?

[Perfectly Flawed]

Do you have argument that this research isn't correct and that it is just some bullshit wrote on paper ?! Do you have argument or evidence to refute this research ?

There is nothing to refute. If you look at the research he found some old research from past studies and then claimed that it supported his theory. None of the prior studies actually support what he says. It's the equivalent of me saying everything we know about grass including it's photosynthetic processes make it seem like a factory. Because of this I propose the theory that little smurfs are inside every blade of grass operating the photosynthetic processes.

Anyone can make a theory based on past research, but his theories aren't proved or supported by the research provided.

And once again, it's not up to me to refute "research" that has no peer review done to it. It is up to the person doing the research to prove their theory or gain support for it through peer review. If a study has no peer review behind it it is looked at as invalid. The reason this guy didn't get his theory peer reviewed is because he knows no other scientists would find anything that supports what he claims.

[Dennis98]

There is nothing to refute. If you look at the research he found some old research from past studies and then claimed that it supported his theory. None of the prior studies actually support what he says. It's the equivalent of me saying everything we know about grass including it's photosynthetic processes make it seem like a factory. Because of this I propose the theory that little smurfs are inside every blade of grass operating the photosynthetic processes.

Anyone can make a theory based on past research, but his theories aren't proved or supported by the research provided.

And once again, it's not up to me to refute "research" that has no peer review done to it. It is up to the person doing the research to prove their theory or gain support for it through peer review. If a study has no peer review behind it it is looked at as invalid. The reason this guy didn't get his theory peer reviewed is because he knows no other scientists would find anything that supports what he claims.


That is because most of scientists believe in "Darvin theory" or better say , they're darvinists , which means that they're not religious , which means that they're atheists ... And so , they're doing it with reason , they can't accept any theory of God or soul existence . That is reason , why isn't this theory supported . This man just needs supporters and funds , I am sure that in that case he would change history ... But it seems it isn't in interest of some "rulers from shadow" .

[CanadianJake]

Honestly I don't know how to answer this, I believe we could go to heaven but sometimes I wonder if we actually stay on earth. We do have souls do we not? if we do then our souls actually stay within earth to watch over our family. That's what I believe.

[Perfectly Flawed]

That is because most of scientists believe in "Darvin theory" or better say , they're darvinists , which means that they're not religious , which means that they're atheists ... And so , they're doing it with reason , they can't accept any theory of God or soul existence . That is reason , why isn't this theory supported . This man just needs supporters and funds , I am sure that in that case he would change history ... But it seems it isn't in interest of some "rulers from shadow" .

No every acclaimed scientists including the good amount of religious scientists wouldn't agree with this study. All good scientists believe in heavy amounts of peer review and would believe this research is faulty. There are plenty of good religious scientists and theories that have gone through peer review to be considered valid ideas, this isn't one of them.

Also the vast majority of atheistic scientists and atheists as a whole would convert if they found legitimate proof of a God. Atheists don't have anything to lose by converting, and so we are open to converting if 100% proof is found. Scientists aren't doing science to prove themselves right, they are doing science to learn more about the universe. Scientists throughout history have changed their minds when valid evidence is put before them. As of now no evidence supports the existence of God, and since no evidence disproves God the world is divided. Any time you see research that "proves" that God is or isn't real you can be almost 100% sure it isn't supported by factual information. If these studies were 100% correct they would be all over the news, not sitting on a relatively unknown website with no peer review.

btw it's "Darwin"

[Dennis98]

No every acclaimed scientists including the good amount of religious scientists wouldn't agree with this study. All good scientists believe in heavy amounts of peer review and would believe this research is faulty. There are plenty of good religious scientists and theories that have gone through peer review to be considered valid ideas, this isn't one of them.

btw it's "Darwin"


As I said this man can change history , but it seems it isn't in interest of "rulers from shadow" ... And by the way , English isn't my native language , but it seems you realized point , "Darvin" , "Darwin" it doesn't matter ...

[Perfectly Flawed]

As I said this man can change history , but it seems it isn't in interest of "rulers from shadow" ... And by the way , English isn't my native language , but it seems you realized point , "Darvin" , "Darwin" it doesn't matter ...

English doesn't need to be your first language to get a name correct. Names don't abide by any language. I wasn't correcting it to be mean, I did it just to let you know.

And as I said in my new edit on the last post, if this was valid research that could change history, it would already be all over the news and every scientist in the world would be performing peer reviews because like you said, it would be huge. The reason that isn't happening is because other scientists likely looked at the research, scoffed at it's ridiculousness, and moved on. You can't really test a theory that the theorist didn't even perform any tests on.

[Lovelife090994]

Heaven is believed to have been derived from the idea of the Egyptian Afterlife. And given that Egyptian religion has been around for so much of human history and how Kemetism still exists, who knows?

[Dennis98]

English doesn't need to be your first language to get a name correct. Names don't abide by any language. I wasn't correcting it to be mean, I did it just to let you know.

And as I said in my new edit on the last post, if this was valid research that could change history, it would already be all over the news and every scientist in the world would be performing peer reviews because like you said, it would be huge. The reason that isn't happening is because other scientists likely looked at the research, scoffed at it's ridiculousness, and moved on. You can't really test a theory that the theorist didn't even perform any tests on.

Letter "W" doesn't exist in Serbian or Montenegrin or any Serbo-Croatian dialects , similar languages , so , we say "Darvin" . And I think that it is some huge and unacceptable mistake , it happens to any human ... I told you , this could be research that can change history , but this man lacks support and funds , it needs money . "Rulers from shadow" like usually , are trying to censor this research .. Most of scientists is owned by great pharmacist lobbies which are owed by Masonic lobbies , and they do what do they say .. Same as guy , Royal Rife , that found cure for cancer and even for AIDS , he was found dead under mysterious circumstances . Although , he was 83yrs old , he was good health and without any health problems , sprightly old man ... Interesting ?! That's your problem , you believe in everything that is served to public , governments use public like laboratory rats , and you're not only one , and that's not your mistake , most of people believe in everything .. Everything that is served to public , news , researches etc , just turn it upside down , and you'll see real true . Government is sword with two blades ...

[Vlerchan]

It's a conspiracy!

[Babs]

I don't believe in heaven or hell. Like Hannah said, I believe it's just nothingness, like before you were born.

[Living For Love]

I do believe in heaven (and in hell).

[Uranus]

Since I'm from a religious home and a Christian, I believe in heaven and obviously hell. But you who believe in nothing after death confuse me. The bible says that heaven is perfect. It's got streets of gold and pearly gates. The most beautiful image imaginable. There is no sickness, no evil, no pain. Simply perfect. Why die believing that there is nothing, when you can die believing there is heaven being eternally perfect? I don't understand.

[Perfectly Flawed]

Letter "W" doesn't exist in Serbian or Montenegrin or any Serbo-Croatian dialects , similar languages , so , we say "Darvin" . And I think that it is some huge and unacceptable mistake , it happens to any human ... I told you , this could be research that can change history , but this man lacks support and funds , it needs money . "Rulers from shadow" like usually , are trying to censor this research .. Most of scientists is owned by great pharmacist lobbies which are owed by Masonic lobbies , and they do what do they say .. Same as guy , Royal Rife , that found cure for cancer and even for AIDS , he was found dead under mysterious circumstances . Although , he was 83yrs old , he was good health and without any health problems , sprightly old man ... Interesting ?! That's your problem , you believe in everything that is served to public , governments use public like laboratory rats , and you're not only one , and that's not your mistake , most of people believe in everything .. Everything that is served to public , news , researches etc , just turn it upside down , and you'll see real true . Government is sword with two blades ...

I'm just going to stop debating with you at this point. It's gotten off topic and you can't convince conspiracy theorists of anything.

[amgb]

Hahah I posted in the other thread similar to this. I think that we simply don't know and can't know unless we can connect with the dead or ghosts to gather information on their experiences after death. I don't think we've been able to prove anything yet but personally I believe in ghosts and the afterlife and reincarnation and I believe it because it helps me suppress the fear of dying. I saw a movie once called 'I orgins' and it was based on the idea of the afterlife and how a woman dying was being born into the world again as a little girl. It was beautiful.

[lonely_gay_boy]

If heaven is real then hell is too :o

[Babs]

Since I'm from a religious home and a Christian, I believe in heaven and obviously hell. But you who believe in nothing after death confuse me. The bible says that heaven is perfect. It's got streets of gold and pearly gates. The most beautiful image imaginable. There is no sickness, no evil, no pain. Simply perfect. Why die believing that there is nothing, when you can die believing there is heaven being eternally perfect? I don't understand.


The Bible also says Hell is essentially eternal misery, and that non-Christians deserve such pain purely because they aren't Christians, regardless of if they're genuinely good people. For that reason, heaven doesn't seem to lovely to me.

That said, I don't want to believe something simply because it sounds nice, or is the most convenient belief. If someone truly believes in a god and afterlife, cool; but I, as an atheist, just don't believe in one.

[Karkat]

I don't know.

Its existence isn't really something that can be debated about.

Basically how I feel.

I do believe in god, to a certain extent, but beyond that (and even including that), I don't know much else. Imo, there isn't really a way to know, at least not yet.

[amgb]

Don't feel like editing I'm just gonna post again:p And I don't believe in hell because it's just something too horrid to think about and believe in...