Today's world

[Meh Guy]

I'm gonna get shit for this but oh well. I think it's high time that we stand back and look at what we've done to the world. North America as a whole (Not just the USA) has definitely treated the Middle East but especially Muslims poorly. I'm not condoning what some of these radical extremists are doing in the name of their god, but lets step back and look at this. In a real sense, this is bullying in its simplest form. Now I'm gonna get flak for taking these mass killings and such and under playing them but please bear with me. What North America and even other parts of the world are doing to the Middle East and once again, especially Muslims is in fact, bullying. Now I understand that what some of the people from over there have done goes far beyond the normal limit for a reaction, but lets think of it this way: when someone beat you up at school, did your teacher/parents etc. tell you to go beat the hell out of the person? Of course not. We'd be in even more of a horrible, violent world then we are now if we were taught that. So obviously violence isn't working. We're stooping down to a level of literally sterotyping mass amounts of people because of one groups's actions. Like the example of the terrorist attack in Paris. Now I realize that there has been evidence that they may not of been from the Middle East, but they clearly support Muslims very strongly. It's one thing to lash out against one another for acts of terrorism and such, but did we really have to go and openly make fun of their religion's idols? Really, what good comes from that? We're literally just being asshats and if someone from over there started doing that kind of thing about Obama/America/Jesus, we'd be over there nuking the hell out of them. I for one would like this proverbial bitch fest to end and everyone can go do their own business.

Sorry if that got long or a little too 'world peacey'. Just my thoughts and please don't turn this thread into WW3. Thanks :)

[TheN3rdyOutcast]

*sighs* I can see this turning into a huge fucking train wreck already.

Honestly, I wish that America would just stop trying to be the world's policeman, because being a policeman is a dangerous job, and we have our own problems. If we'd never gotten involved in the first place we wouldn't be in any of this mess.

[phuckphace]

I view the Middle East as a hornet's nest, and our meddling in it akin to stomping on the nest and then acting surprised when we get stung. instead of trying to teach the hornets to stop stinging, we ought to pull our foot out of it and run away.

the desert tribes have been at each other's throats for centuries and there's no indication that it will ever let up. jumping in the middle of it is a bad idea. it's best to retreat back to our own realm, build a moat and a 500-foot wall around it, and keep to ourselves.

[Arkansasguy]

I'm gonna get shit for this but oh well. I think it's high time that we stand back and look at what we've done to the world. North America as a whole (Not just the USA) has definitely treated the Middle East but especially Muslims poorly. I'm not condoning what some of these radical extremists are doing in the name of their god, but lets step back and look at this. In a real sense, this is bullying in its simplest form. Now I'm gonna get flak for taking these mass killings and such and under playing them but please bear with me. What North America and even other parts of the world are doing to the Middle East and once again, especially Muslims is in fact, bullying. Now I understand that what some of the people from over there have done goes far beyond the normal limit for a reaction, but lets think of it this way: when someone beat you up at school, did your teacher/parents etc. tell you to go beat the hell out of the person? Of course not. We'd be in even more of a horrible, violent world then we are now if we were taught that. So obviously violence isn't working. We're stooping down to a level of literally sterotyping mass amounts of people because of one groups's actions. Like the example of the terrorist attack in Paris. Now I realize that there has been evidence that they may not of been from the Middle East, but they clearly support Muslims very strongly. It's one thing to lash out against one another for acts of terrorism and such, but did we really have to go and openly make fun of their religion's idols? Really, what good comes from that? We're literally just being asshats and if someone from over there started doing that kind of thing about Obama/America/Jesus, we'd be over there nuking the hell out of them. I for one would like this proverbial bitch fest to end and everyone can go do their own business.

Sorry if that got long or a little too 'world peacey'. Just my thoughts and please don't turn this thread into WW3. Thanks :)

The real reason for our invasions there, is because they are not liberal. With the exception of the Israelis, Middle Easterners almost invariably disprove of western moral degeneracy.

[Jason The Great]

I live in Iran and when I see whole world from here , I'd hold United States responsible for the mess , even in Iran.

[Vlerchan]

The real reason for our invasions there, is because they are not liberal.
Ba'athist Iraq was one of the most progressively-orientated states in the Middle East.

On the other hand, the US continues to deal with Saudi Arabia, and Qatar, and Jordan (etc.), who are the most Medieval states in the world.

I don't think it has anything to do with the perceived Liberalness. Or they are being very weird about it.

[Stronk Serb]

Meddling against at that time progressive countries like Iraq, Iran and Afghanistan caused the problem. A socialist Afghan government got overthrown by rebels (to limit the sphere of influence of the USSR) which were supported directly and indirectly by the USA and it's sphere of influence causing the Soviets to step in in '79 I think, in Iran they overthrew Mossadegh in the fifties/sixties so they could suck on cheap oil, they overthrew Hussein in Iraq for the same reasons. Those guys wanted a progressive state, hell, Yugoslavia at that time built half of Iraq in exchange for crude oil. Infrastructure, factories, power plants etc. USA is the biggest problem since both Mexico and Canada barely have an international hate club unlike the US who has a large portion of the Middle East, Eastern Europe except Ukraine and pretty much all of South America.

[Arkansasguy]

Ba'athist Iraq was one of the most progressively-orientated states in the Middle East.

On the other hand, the US continues to deal with Saudi Arabia, and Qatar, and Jordan (etc.), who are the most Medieval states in the world.

I don't think it has anything to do with the perceived Liberalness. Or they are being very weird about it.

What was the title of that operation?

[Vlerchan]

What was the title of that operation?
Operation Iraqi Freedom.

I still think history trumps naming conventions chosen for propaganda purposes. (Though "Freedom" is vague regardless).

Please read: I'm not taking this argument seriously at all.

[phuckphace]

theories about Western cultural imperialism being the basis of our foreign occupations might sound valid, but at the end of the day I think the simplest and most elegant explanation is money. all the facts lead back to men with power trying to line their pockets, which is nothing new. Western degeneracy may very well be introduced into our sphere of influence as a side effect, but it being the primary motivator is unlikely.

[dirtyboxer55]

when someone beat you up at school, did your teacher/parents etc. tell you to go beat the hell out of the person?

yes


literally sterotyping mass amounts of people because of one groups's actions.


It's one thing to lash out against one another for acts of terrorism and such, but did we really have to go and openly make fun of their religion's idols?


how ironic. what do you mean by "we"? why are you grouping a bunch of people together based on what one small amount of people did? oh wait...

Really, what good comes from that? We're literally just being asshats and if someone from over there started doing that kind of thing about Obama/America/Jesus, we'd be over there nuking the hell out of them.

no amount of words can accurately describe the stupidity here. Obama, America, and Jesus suck. awaiting the nukes to reign down on my house. did you honestly think when writing this? im sure there are muslims who make fun of obama and jesus, but i dont really think the administration cares enough to pay attention to them, let alone nuke them...


Just my thoughts
so you were thinking, mind = blown.

[Capto]

On the other hand, the US continues to deal with Saudi Arabia, and Qatar, and Jordan (etc.), who are the most Medieval states in the world.


I think Jordan is rather unfairly on this list.

[SethfromMI]

I view the Middle East as a hornet's nest, and our meddling in it akin to stomping on the nest and then acting surprised when we get stung. instead of trying to teach the hornets to stop stinging, we ought to pull our foot out of it and run away.

the desert tribes have been at each other's throats for centuries and there's no indication that it will ever let up. jumping in the middle of it is a bad idea. it's best to retreat back to our own realm, build a moat and a 500-foot wall around it, and keep to ourselves.

good illustration. the middle east has been the way it is for hundreds if not, thousands of years. it is not going to change all of the sudden because America says it should

[Vlerchan]

I think Jordan is rather unfairly on this list.
Posting at 8am wasn't my best idea.

I agree Jordan are certainly more enlightened than I make them out to be there.

[Arkansasguy]

Operation Iraqi Freedom.

I still think history trumps naming conventions chosen for propaganda purposes. (Though "Freedom" is vague regardless).

Please read: I'm not taking this argument seriously at all.

Thus showing a motivation.

[Vlerchan]

Thus showing a motivation.
The Democratic Republic of North Korea is also (motivated to be) Democratic by your logic.

I also think the labelling was done more to disguise the true motives of the then-administration.

[Meh Guy]

I view the Middle East as a hornet's nest, and our meddling in it akin to stomping on the nest and then acting surprised when we get stung. instead of trying to teach the hornets to stop stinging, we ought to pull our foot out of it and run away.

the desert tribes have been at each other's throats for centuries and there's no indication that it will ever let up. jumping in the middle of it is a bad idea. it's best to retreat back to our own realm, build a moat and a 500-foot wall around it, and keep to ourselves.

Pretty much, I mean, keeping to ourselves would work well except the Middle East would probably still find some way to ruin that. But I totally agree here.

[Miserabilia]

The united states are the tyran of the united nations. Extremely exessive military power and waging unnecary wars with hidden agendas...
Don't get me wrong, every country has pro's and cons but the USA military sure likes to exessively f*k things up.

[DoodleSnap]

Ba'athist Iraq was one of the most progressively-orientated states in the Middle East.

On the other hand, the US continues to deal with Saudi Arabia, and Qatar, and Jordan (etc.), who are the most Medieval states in the world.

I don't think it has anything to do with the perceived Liberalness. Or they are being very weird about it.
^^^This. It all comes down to power and wealth. Why do we continue to deal with these unjust anti-democratic slave built states? Because they hold money and power that is why.
But overall, I agree with the OP, we (US, Canada, UK, Aus, NZ, etc) have done terrible things in the name of liberty and freedom.

[Canadian Dream]

The reason the US is after the middle east is mainly because of their opposition to western culture and democraty, for the same reasons there is tention between Russia and the US. The problem here is that westernized countries and especially the United States in this case want to apply their way of thinking to others, which isn't necesserily right. If the middle east wants to live that way, I say let them be, but starting a third Iraq war wasn't the right decision to make on the US's part. The reason the US has islamic extremists after it is because it has been provoking their religion for what coming close to 30 years. Just for those that don't believe me I'll take Canada's case as an example. Recently, our Prime Minister Stephen Harper has decided that it would be an excellent idea to join the war against Iraq. Guess what happened: a few weeks after this decision was made, two Canadian soldiers were shot to death by an extremist in the Parliament in Ottawa. This proves that we're just asking for trouble. However, I won't say it's all the westernized countries' fault since there has been overreaction from the extremists. For example, the attacks in France were apparently caused by the caricature of Mohammed in a satire store, but apparently this store was also making fun of other religions, so they had no reason to get angry in this way. We just have to remember that even if others get angry at us that it is no reason to get back at them, since we could be asking for trouble.

[Babs]

The US needs to keep its nose outta everything.
Especially now, when most of the war casualties in the Middle East are harmless civilians.

[Melkor]

Tbh USA has been changing enemies since WW 2... They began with the Nazis and the Empire of the Rising Sun, they indirectly fought the USSR during the cold war, they basically started Vietnam war (False flagging I think), they sold weapons to Iraq during Iran-Iraq war... I can go on forever. My personal opinion is that; to keep the economy of USA going and to balance out the world they need these wars. When I pay attention to the world nowadays, I see no difference between our world and George Orwell's 1984. On going terrorism, war and hostility all over the world and most of the countries involved are not giving a damn about the future generations.

[Silicate Wielder]

Lets look back in time, we've had wars, fighting, and all kinds of shit similar to this going on for as long as I can go back in time using my history lessons from school, Looking at all the history lessons I have taken in school, we have been fighting since the very start.

humans as a species are unpredictable, and most have a tolerance for things others may do, but the inevitable truth is that we all have our own tolerance limits. Eventually someone powerful pops their head, either because of legal matters, or emotional/personal reasons, and oh boy! Wars, guns, and military weaponry everywhere! (Sarcasm)

Things are really heated right now, and things have been heated like this in the past. The United States is preparing for a WWIII to happen any month now and things will eventually simmer down and we shall head back into another peaceful period of time.

Things will inevitably start up again, when someone finds there is shit boiling in the pot and decide to throw the worst tantrum any of you have ever seen. The only way we may ever get out of this endless cycle is if we let a computer rule us, but then there are those who are afraid that we would be wiped out as a species when robots take over due to that, so go figure.

So yeah, just remember it's our nature as humans, we see shit we don't like, over react, and then usually have our militaries go kill off the people we don't like instead of trying to talk it out.

[Sugaree]

I'm gonna get shit for this but oh well. I think it's high time that we stand back and look at what we've done to the world. North America as a whole (Not just the USA) has definitely treated the Middle East but especially Muslims poorly.

Please tell me what the Middle East has done to deserve our respect? Our supposed allies Saudi Arabia and Qatar both fund terrorist organizations with the money we give to them. In Saudi Arabia's case, it's the money we give them for oil. In Qatar's case, it's the money we give them to stay afloat and because they sweet talk us into giving them more.

Countries in the Middle East have never liked the United States or any country of the Western civilized world. We are in direct contradiction to their religious beliefs. According to them, we are the cause of all evil in the world, and they say that as they behead teenaged boys for watching a soccer match on television. Muslims, throughout history, have never been treated poorly. Look at the caliphates throughout the history of the Middle East. Look at how religious and ethnic minorities were treated in those caliphates. Very rarely have Muslims been in a position where people have felt sorry for them. The only times in history where the Muslims have been given sympathy was during the Crusades, and that's because they were the ones who took the Holy Land by FORCE and got their asses handed back to them.

It is not North America and the rest of the world that is the problem.

I'm not condoning what some of these radical extremists are doing in the name of their god, but lets step back and look at this. In a real sense, this is bullying in its simplest form. Now I'm gonna get flak for taking these mass killings and such and under playing them but please bear with me. What North America and even other parts of the world are doing to the Middle East and once again, especially Muslims is in fact, bullying.

So what do you do when you get bullied? Do you just walk up to the bully, ask them to stop bullying you because it hurts your feelings, and act like you've accomplished something? These people don't listen to diplomats. The language of the Middle East, and of Islam as a whole, is violence. It is not UN conferences in New York City or conventions in Geneva. They live by the sword, they kill by the sword, they DIE by the sword. People can be pushed only so far until they get to their breaking point, and if someone pushed me far enough, I would not hesitate to push them further.

I would say the same thing if the rest of the world were the ones instigating these fights, but they didn't. The United States did not instigate the Afghanistan War; Al Qaeda and Osama bin Laden did. The only war the United States instigated in the Middle East (and not the one by proxy in Iran in the 1950s) was the Iraqi War in 2003, and that was instigated under a false intelligence report that was never verified before reaching the President's desk.

Now I understand that what some of the people from over there have done goes far beyond the normal limit for a reaction, but lets think of it this way: when someone beat you up at school, did your teacher/parents etc. tell you to go beat the hell out of the person? Of course not. We'd be in even more of a horrible, violent world then we are now if we were taught that. So obviously violence isn't working.

Unlike most of today's youth, I wasn't told to be a wimp and run behind the back of an adult. I was told to defend myself, no matter who bullied me. And it's served me well in life. I've been bullied by multiple people, and they didn't stop because some wimpy school counselor told them to stop. They stopped because I stood up to them and put them back in their place. Does this ALWAYS work? No. If it doesn't work, then there is no shame in going to ask for help from people who would go to the end of the world to defend you. But to run to mommy and daddy or the school counselor every time you get harassed doesn't teach you to stand up for yourself.



We're stooping down to a level of literally sterotyping mass amounts of people because of one groups's actions. Like the example of the terrorist attack in Paris. Now I realize that there has been evidence that they may not of been from the Middle East, but they clearly support Muslims very strongly. It's one thing to lash out against one another for acts of terrorism and such, but did we really have to go and openly make fun of their religion's idols?

What makes their religious idols exempt from criticism? If Islam is such a fragile religion that even MENTIONING Mohammad without getting on your knees and banging your head against the floor is an immediate death sentence, then I have every right to make fun of it. I have every right to make jokes about Mohammad molesting little girls and how his followers typically have sexual relations with their sheep herds. No belief is exempt from being made fun of. If they don't like it, they can get mad. It only goes to show that they really believe in what their book of violence says.


Really, what good comes from that? We're literally just being asshats and if someone from over there started doing that kind of thing about Obama/America/Jesus, we'd be over there nuking the hell out of them. I for one would like this proverbial bitch fest to end and everyone can go do their own business.

Wanna know the difference between the Middle East and the rest of the world? The rest of the world has common sense not to succumb to petty bullshit; the Middle East is still trying to figure out how to get past 1st grade thinking and comprehension.

Sorry if that got long or a little too 'world peacey'. Just my thoughts and please don't turn this thread into WW3. Thanks :)

That's your problem. It's not "world peacey", it's a bunch of unintelligible, uninformed horse hockey. If you honestly think that Muslims are so oppressed in the West, go over the Iran or any of the areas held by the Islamic State group. You wanna talk about oppression and unfair treatment? Take a look at what the Islamic State did to the Christians and Jews in Yazidi this past summer. They took the town, slaughtered most of the population (men, women, kids, the whole lot), and anyone lucky enough to survive the massacre either ran into the nearby mountain range or was put into slavery. You have these camel jockeys putting the severed heads of toddlers on spikes and lining the streets with them. You think Muslims have it bad over HERE?

Profiling people you don't know is only natural. I think that's what you're getting at. Is it wrong? In a lot of cases, yes, it is. You can't suspect everyone coming from the outside is looking to cause trouble, but you can't tell yourself that they're here for good reason, either. Profiling foreigners has been going on for years before 9/11 and it will continue for a very long time to come. You get profiled every day for multiple things: your clothes, your race, your gender...it's not specific to one group of people.

Again, everything you wrote is unintelligible and uninformed horse hockey. You have no understanding of multiple things, like self defense and the right to security. But that's none of my business, so long as people with those opinions don't take majority in national office.