Privilege

[queenofcontrariety]

Oh gosh, I actually don't like going into this section because I know how heated this gets.
But...
Here I go anyway

My English teacher took the time to give us all these articles on privilege and had us write an essay about it, mine ended up being like 5 pages and I'm basically in love with it but I feel like that's too much to share unless someone explicitly asks to see it.... but what are your thoughts on privilege? I'm going to leave this pretty open ended and see where it goes but please be civil

[SethfromMI]

well how long did she say the paper should be?

[queenofcontrariety]

well how long did she say the paper should be?
She didn't really say, we hand wrote one draft in a couple class periods and then after grading it she told us to revamp it and then submit it focusing on our voice, but in TNR12 and double spaced 5 pages isn't all that much on a topic where I had free range.

[SethfromMI]

at first you said if it was too much. if it is no big deal on the length and you are happy with it then keep it that long. I mean, you can decide if there is some stuff you want to cut, but that is part of the editing process

[queenofcontrariety]

at first you said if it was too much. if it is no big deal on the length and you are happy with it then keep it that long. I mean, you can decide if there is some stuff you want to cut, but that is part of the editing process

Well the point of this thread was more about my topic rather than the essay itself, thank you though, I just didn't think anyone would actually want to read through it. It kinda perfectly expresses my viewpoint on this topic but I was just kinda wondering what people think of privilege or if they even realize they have it

[SethfromMI]

oh haha. it is an interesting topic indeed. I still say go for it :)

[queenofcontrariety]

Alrighty guys I'm being true to my username and contradicting myself, I'll just leave this here for you guys to read, but don't feel like you have to in order to comment on the subject at hand, I'm just really curious about other people's perspectives
Privilege is a nearly invisible force which takes many forms. The people who see privilege for what it is are those who lack it. Privilege is the ladder which raises some people higher and makes it easier for them to reach new heights. The people supported by privilege can’t see it, but looking from the bottom those in the absence of privilege see what it can actually do and start to realize all the privileges which support them.

White privilege. Male privilege. Upper and Middle class privileges. Who is it who actually sees these privileges? It isn’t the the white son of an investment banker living on a large estate. It isn’t even the twenty something year old frat boy whose father was a salesman. White privilege is best seen by anyone who isn’t white. Male privilege is only seen by women, and of women it is only seen by those who aren’t blinded by the subservient domestic role they were groomed to play. Upper and middle class privileges are best seen by those struggling in the lowest income situations barely on either side of the poverty line.

As an upper-middle class white young woman no one would expect me to see the nastier side of privilege. My parents always told me I could do anything I want, but coming from a long line of stay at home mothers nothing pushed me more to break the stereotype. My grandmother had no choice, so I don’t blame her. She dreamt of being a doctor and her parents told her they wouldn’t pay for her to go to college unless she picked “a women’s profession”. My mother chose to stay home, I mean given my dad’s income it was never really practical for her to go back. I still feel like I missed out on a strong female role model, but that hasn’t stopped me yet and I doubt it ever will.

Everyone always knew I was different, not your typical “yes girl”. I wasn’t afraid to speak my mind and there was always the ability to fight for what I truly believe in deep within me. I spent much of my childhood at minor league hockey games and watching football with my dad. He admitted to me being like the older son he never had, great fatherly advice. It never dawned on me that my sex could some how limit me.

There are very few things I could ever choose to do with my life which put me on the outs of privilege. Leave it to me to find the one thing which would test me more than I could have ever imagine younger than anyone would have thought. I wanted to be an engineer. Not that crazy of a concept. My entire life I was a great problem solver, going all the way back to building my own doll houses. I excelled at math and science and it fit within the parameters my father set as for what I was allowed to do. He never wanted me to struggle so he steered me clear of english and history and explicitly said I couldn’t become a teacher. Given the expectation for me to go into special education because of my special needs brother it was nice to know that he wouldn’t force me down that road. The stars were all aligned for me to be an engineer, except for one of course. It was news to me to have a classmate say to me, “You’re a girl, you can’t be an engineer.”

Fun fact about me, I do not do well with being told “No” or being told I can’t do something. I also do not respond well to caustic environments. Who would? Who in their right mind would enjoy to be belittled daily? Just because I was a girl I was told to “Get in the kitchen and make a sandwich”. I had screws and nuts thrown at me and dropped down the back of my shirt, physically cornered some days. No one ever told these guys to “Go outside and chop some wood”. Instead they were told to “stop thinking like a girl”. What is that even supposed to mean? Does having a vagina some how compromise my cognitive ability? Everyone told me to “tough it out”. My favorite line was “boys will be boys”. Last time I checked having a dick doesn’t entitle you to be one, but then again I grew up being told I could do anything.

This was the first time in my life privilege wasn’t kind to me. Being a fifteen year old girl was difficult enough, I didn’t need to feel like dirt all the time. These young men were told they could be anything they wanted. They were given strong army men, I was given a doll with unrealistic body proportions. They were handed a football, I was told to cheer for them. They were praised for their ideas, I was told to keep mine to myself. In all honesty, none of this was visible to me before I was thrown off the privilege ladder and had to stare up at young men who had worked no harder than I had, in fact most times they worked even less. The privilege these young men had, or rather their inability to see it, made them think the way they treated me was acceptable.

I realized that being in the absence of privilege meant fighting. I took note of everything said, everything done, everything which made me feel on the outs. Somewhere in my heart I found the courage to file an official report. Everyone said I waited to long… these young men faced no consequences for what they did to me. I learned to conduct myself without emotion, taking all the pain and putting it into something which actually mattered. I wanted to make it easier for the next girl. At one point I actually referred to myself as the sacrificial lamb. Day after day, month after month, I ran into this brick wall, but honestly I don’t think I could be more thankful for anything. I grew into a stronger person because of all of this.

This was me slipping into the shoes of everyone else for the first time. I would never have to go into my local police station as a well established black individual moving into a new town and tell them I drove a nice car and didn’t want to deal with DWB as they call it. I never had to wonder where my next meal was coming from or whether daddy would have a job by Christmas. I hopefully will never witness the persecution of my family because of our beliefs. I will never be completely denied my rights because of who I am.

I can honestly say that I now have everything, and the thing I cherish most is this little chip on my shoulder. This little chip is from the first of many hardships I will most likely face for being a woman and wanting to break the barrier between women and engineering.

In my teenage years I’ve crossed the Atlantic twice, I realized I can get away with just about anything, but I still get this sinking feeling in my stomach. There are so many things for me to fear as a woman. Afraid to walk alone. Afraid of acquaintance rape. Afraid to drink. Afraid to go to certain countries. All this to be afraid of and what am I afraid of? I am afraid of people thinking I’m some crazy man hating feminist. I actually hate that word, the connotation is so negative and extremist. Yes, I am a woman. Yes, I do want freedoms. Part of me still wants that white picket fence surrounding a beautiful house for my future husband and I with our three kids but I don’t want to spend all day in that house waiting for my husband with his slippers and a martini. I want to come home early on Mondays and Wednesdays, he can come home early on Tuesdays and Thursdays, and we’ll alternate who’s home for the kids on Fridays. I want balance. I want a man who sees how much I, a seemingly privileged woman, has gone through. That’s the real key to all this, it isn’t whether you have privilege or don’t, it’s about your ability to see the invisible ladder that can toss you off just as easily as it raised you up. Toss off the rose colored glasses, stop drinking the Kool-Aid, let the haze fade away. We all have privileges, some are easier to see than others. Embrace them. Embrace your cozy chair, embrace your heated house, embrace your nice car. Embrace being told you can do anything, embrace not being questioned. Embrace not dealing with police brutality, embrace never having people cross the street when they see you coming down the sidewalk with a hood on. See the flip side of all this, I know not everyone is willing to admit privilege is real. No one wants to think that they were helped in any way to get where they are, well privilege was there. Privilege is a ladder, and it has raised you up to where you are today.

[Arkansasguy]

what are your thoughts on privilege?

What does that even mean? Seems sort of like asking what's my opinion on pens or toothpaste.

[Horatio Nelson]

That was beautifully written, I must say.

It's kind of hard for me to answer this. I am that privileged white male with out a single thing stopping me from whatever I want. Which I take for granted when I think about it.

I'm struggling to find a good response, but I think I'll just say that it's sad that the way you look or dress can be so stereotyped and cause you to be put into a preconceived shape. I wish it wasn't so.

[queenofcontrariety]

What does that even mean? Seems sort of like asking what's my opinion on pens or toothpaste.

Not everyone acknowledges privilege or realizes they have it, what privileges have you been afforded? Which have you not? Do you even realize how much of an effect privilege has had on your life?

[Hudor]

That is well written. Quite insightful. :)

As for privilege. Yea I've been conscious about it since probably the age of four. I've been on both sides. I enjoy it when I get it and when I don't it feels more or less obligatory to take that with a pinch of salt.

[Arkansasguy]

Not everyone acknowledges privilege or realizes they have it, what privileges have you been afforded? Which have you not? Do you even realize how much of an effect privilege has had on your life?

Yes I've had certain privileges, as most people have. But not based on race if that's what you're getting at. I've also had pens and toothpaste, but again not based on race. All of these things have had an effect on my life, but what's your point?

[queenofcontrariety]

Yes I've had certain privileges, as most people have. But not based on race if that's what you're getting at. I've also had pens and toothpaste, but again not based on race. All of these things have had an effect on my life, but what's your point?
Not getting at the race thing. In case you haven't notice I am white and that is a privilege. In fact race is only one of many privileges which exist. The point of all this is to talk about how privilege has effected us, maybe share a story or two. And honestly I think privilege has a bigger effect than a pen or toothpaste, but then again possessing both of those things are privileges

[Babs]

I think this was quite insightful.
I think there needs to be more discussion about privilege. Evidently, some people don't quite understand the concept. A lot of people misunderstand and respond with something along the lines of, "If I'm so privileged how come my life isn't 100% perfect? Checkmate." but I think your essay captured what it really is.

[queenofcontrariety]

It's kind of hard for me to answer this. I am that privileged white male with out a single thing stopping me from whatever I want. Which I take for granted when I think about it.

I'm struggling to find a good response, but I think I'll just say that it's sad that the way you look or dress can be so stereotyped and cause you to be put into a preconceived shape. I wish it wasn't so.
At least you realize that you kind of have the trifecta of privilege, I mean that's great for you. I didn't even really explore the concepts of stereotypes being related to privilege, it's definitely a good point though.



As for privilege. Yea I've been conscious about it since probably the age of four. I've been on both sides. I enjoy it when I get it and when I don't it feels more or less obligatory to take that with a pinch of salt.

I feel like being a little privlieged and lacking it a little is probably the best way to be, it's humbling and you aren't so overly jaded that you feel like you have to fight the ENTIRE world.
I think this was quite insightful.
I think there needs to be more discussion about privilege. Evidently, some people don't quite understand the concept. A lot of people misunderstand and respond with something along the lines of, "If I'm so privileged how come my life isn't 100% perfect? Checkmate." but I think your essay captured what it really is.
I mean for the people who are going to complain and say they aren't privileged, this is all I have to say.
You're seeing this. You have two eyes, which work. They have electricity and internet access. You were taught how to read... I mean these all seem like small things, but there are plenty of people who don't have those luxuries. You definitely raised one of the points I was most worried about when starting this thread

[Arkansasguy]

Not getting at the race thing. In case you haven't notice I am white and that is a privilege. In fact race is only one of many privileges which exist. The point of all this is to talk about how privilege has effected us, maybe share a story or two. And honestly I think privilege has a bigger effect than a pen or toothpaste, but then again possessing both of those things are privileges

How is being a white a privilege?

[queenofcontrariety]

How is being a white a privilege?

*sigh* this is basically the most, shall we say "prominent", of privileges. Generally speaking you won't be pulled over while driving a nice car and be suspected of stealing it or another crime. You're more likely to be in a good economic position and go to college. You're generally expected by teachers to be likely to succeed and they're willing to spend more time helping you. You're more likely to get highered. People are less likely go fear you while walking at night... my real question is how have you not heard of white privilege? It's kind of a huge deal given all the racial tensions at the moment. We can't feel bad for being privileged and we can't really change it but being aware of it is very important

[Stronk Serb]

There are no white privileges and shit like that here. Here you are privileged if your da's a politician or a crimelord or both. My parents are none of that. Also non-white or non-Asian ethnic minorities get free universoty studies if they finish up high school with average grades, not test for subsidized education, the state funds it. We, the white guys have to break our asses for good grades in school, the addmittance exam and the actualy university exams.

[queenofcontrariety]

There are no white privileges and shit like that here. Here you are privileged if your da's a politician or a crimelord or both. My parents are none of that. Also non-white or non-Asian ethnic minorities get free universoty studies if they finish up high school with average grades, not test for subsidized education, the state funds it. We, the white guys have to break our asses for good grades in school, the addmittance exam and the actualy university exams.
I have to say I am not very familiar with international privileges but thank you for raising this point. May I ask how women are treated where you are? Like is that a limiting factor with getting an education or just general treatment? This may not be something you notice, but try to look at how your female counterparts are treated. Not all privileges apply everywhere and I'd like to see which do apply where you are. I personally would like yo know if there are any privileges you notice that an American wouldn't. Like you said lineage is a big deal? How does that dynamic work?

[TheN3rdyOutcast]

Considering I am a male living in a first world country, I have more privilege than alot of people in my status in other countries, and even some in my own, but because I am a mixed-race, gay male who grew up in a shitty school system in a low-middle class family, I have less privilege than the average person here.

Privilege is like any other societal concept, either it gives you a boost or fucks you in the ass.

[fairmaiden]

Very beautifully written.

Privilege works in two different ways (like what TheN3rdyOutcast said). You can either gain from it or be disadvantaged by it. I'm not incredibly privileged, but I have a loving family and a decent house with water and food and all of that so I'm grateful for that.

[Stronk Serb]

I have to say I am not very familiar with international privileges but thank you for raising this point. May I ask how women are treated where you are? Like is that a limiting factor with getting an education or just general treatment? This may not be something you notice, but try to look at how your female counterparts are treated. Not all privileges apply everywhere and I'd like to see which do apply where you are. I personally would like yo know if there are any privileges you notice that an American wouldn't. Like you said lineage is a big deal? How does that dynamic work?

If your parents are politicians or know the right people, they can use that for your benefit, like you didn't study to get into a good highschool which really matters here, but your dad knows the principal of a good school so he arranges for you to go there even though you don't qualify. Women are somewhat mistreated. It hasn't been a century since we left the patriarchal society, but they are still mistreated, but now they are getting legal power to stop the mistreatment if there is any. Now like you said it's hard to notice because it's about small things, like a smaller wage, preference of male to female employees... They are treated equally in education, which is good.

[Vlerchan]

How is being a white a privilege?
This one is rather famous.

We perform a field experiment to measure racial discrimination in the labor market. We respond with fictitious resumes to help-wanted ads in Boston and Chicago newspapers. To manipulate perception of race, each resume is assigned either a very African American sounding name or a very White sounding name. The results show significant discrimination against African-American names: White names receive 50 percent more callbacks for interviews. We also find that race affects the benefits of a better resume. For White names, a higher quality resume elicits 30 percent more callbacks whereas for African Americans, it elicits a far smaller increase. Applicants living in better neighborhoods receive more callbacks but, interestingly, this effect does not differ by race. The amount of discrimination is uniform across occupations and industries. Federal contractors and employers who list Equal Opportunity Employer' in their ad discriminate as much as other employers. We find little evidence that our results are driven by employers inferring something other than race, such as social class, from the names. These results suggest that racial discrimination is still a prominent feature of the labor market.

http://www.nber.org/papers/w9873

[Arkansasguy]

*sigh* this is basically the most, shall we say "prominent", of privileges. Generally speaking you won't be pulled over while driving a nice car and be suspected of stealing it or another crime. You're more likely to be in a good economic position and go to college. You're generally expected by teachers to be likely to succeed and they're willing to spend more time helping you. You're more likely to get highered. People are less likely go fear you while walking at night... my real question is how have you not heard of white privilege? It's kind of a huge deal given all the racial tensions at the moment. We can't feel bad for being privileged and we can't really change it but being aware of it is very important

Yes I've heard of white privilege. I find it to generally be a load of bullcrap. How does any of that make me privileged. Not some hypothetical person, but me?

This one is rather famous.

We perform a field experiment to measure racial discrimination in the labor market. We respond with fictitious resumes to help-wanted ads in Boston and Chicago newspapers. To manipulate perception of race, each resume is assigned either a very African American sounding name or a very White sounding name. The results show significant discrimination against African-American names: White names receive 50 percent more callbacks for interviews. We also find that race affects the benefits of a better resume. For White names, a higher quality resume elicits 30 percent more callbacks whereas for African Americans, it elicits a far smaller increase. Applicants living in better neighborhoods receive more callbacks but, interestingly, this effect does not differ by race. The amount of discrimination is uniform across occupations and industries. Federal contractors and employers who list Equal Opportunity Employer' in their ad discriminate as much as other employers. We find little evidence that our results are driven by employers inferring something other than race, such as social class, from the names. These results suggest that racial discrimination is still a prominent feature of the labor market.

http://www.nber.org/papers/w9873

So some non-existent white person got called back on a job interview instead of a non-existent black person. And this privileges me how exactly? Because I look like the non-existent white person? Sounds rather racist to me.

[Vlerchan]

How does any of that make me privileged.
When I use the term Privilege I mean it to mean as applying to classes of people as far as statistically quantifiable.

So on average white people benefit from privilege. That doesn't mean it definitely applies to you in anyway. But it more than likely does if you are white.

And this privileges me how exactly?
The data indicates that White-sounding names are more likely to gain a favourable response from employers.

If you submit a resume with a White-Sounding name it's more likely for you to gain a favourable response from employers.

That doesn't mean it's definitely going to apply to you. But on average it is something White People as a class are going to be benefit from.

[Stronk Serb]

I watched a social experiment. A white guy used racial slurs against a black guy and as expected, people came defending the black guy. Then they switched roles and nobody came defending the white guy, some black guy even came and said blacks can't be racist and called the white guy a racist even though he was being attacked. There were times when blacks were framed for crimes commited by whites, but there were crimes commited against minorities which were pinned on whites even though there was scetchy evidence. It's sort of a double-edged sword.

[Arkansasguy]

When I use the term Privilege I mean it to mean as applying to classes of people as far as statistically quantifiable.

So on average white people benefit from privilege. That doesn't mean it definitely applies to you in anyway. But it more than likely does if you are white.


The data indicates that White-sounding names are more likely to gain a favourable response from employers.

If you submit a resume with a White-Sounding name it's more likely for you to gain a favourable response from employers.

That doesn't mean it's definitely going to apply to you. But on average it is something White People as a class are going to be benefit from.

A White-sounding name? What exactly does that mean?

[Vlerchan]

A White-sounding name? What exactly does that mean?
Names typically associated with White people.

Names statistically prevalent among white people.

[phuckphace]

I really wish white privilege were all it was cracked up to be. when I was hunting for a job I hoped that my Aryan surname would put me at the top of the stack, but alas it took 4+ months of searching, applying and harassing business owners in person before even one of them called me back (I guess "NOW HIRING" doesn't mean what I thought it meant). but it doesn't stop there! I also hoped that my white skin would help with wage negotiation, but no. the utter humiliation of receiving the same starting wage of $9.60/hr as everyone else, especially after I expected at least $14.88 from a fellow Aryan, was unbelievable. :(

more seriously, minorities, like the disabled, owe this to political correctness. anti-discrimination laws were intended to protect minorities from discrimination but instead added additional risk that most employers don't want. for example, if Shaniqua's boss tries to fire her for poor attendance or wasting company time, she'll bring a lawsuit against the company and claim they fired her because she's black. from the standpoint of a capitalist who likes money, it's an all-around disaster: loss of money and negative publicity. most companies aren't racist, they're simply risk-adverse.

[Vlerchan]

anti-discrimination laws were intended to protect minorities from discrimination but instead added additional risk that most employers don't want.
I'm sure differing legal protections account for some of the bias.

I don't think it's significant like you make it. It seems rather pervasive in other environments.

[Housing:]

The study reveals pervasive discrimination. Real estate brokers showed 25 percent fewer homes to the minority buyers, and loan agencies were 60 percent more likely to turn down minority applicants. Realtors and lenders also charged higher prices to minority buyers, withheld or gave insufficient financial and application information, and showed them homes only in non-white neighborhoods. Residents of minority neighborhoods faced further difficulties trying to sell their homes or obtain housing credit and homeowner's insurance.

https://www.russellsage.org/publications/closed-doors-opportunities-lost

[Car Sales:]

A 1991 test of new car dealerships in Chicago indicated that dealerships offered significantly lower prices to white male testers than to similarly situated black and-or female testers: white female testers were asked to pay 40% higher markups than white male testers; black male testers were asked to pay more than twice the markup of white male testers; and black female testers were asked to pay more than three times the markup of white male testers.

http://digitalcommons.law.yale.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2522&context=fss_papers

[Short-term Credit:]

This paper evaluates the presence of racial disparities in the issuance of consumer credit. Using a unique and proprietary database of credit histories from a major credit bureau, this paper links location-based information on race with individual credit files. After controlling for the influence of such other place-specific factors as housing vacancy rates and general population demographics, the paper finds qualitatively large differences in the amount of credit offered to similarly qualified applicants living in Black versus White areas. The high quality of the data allow the paper to distinguish between issuer-provided credit (supply) and utilization of credit (demand). Additional estimates using a database of payday lending locations provide support for idea that issuers condition lending on location.

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1098403

[Arkansasguy]

Names typically associated with White people.

Names statistically prevalent among white people.

So it wasn't actually racial discrimination.

[Vlerchan]

So it wasn't actually racial discrimination.
Firms are more likely to reject names with certain racial connotations. Take that as you will.

[DoodleSnap]

I feel that the idea of claiming someone is unable to have an opinion, or see a certain societal situation, just because of the circumstances they were born into, is just as bad as saying someone from a poor background should be taken less seriously in a discussion, because of the aforementioned background. Privilege of course exists to some extent or another, but claiming "those with it cannot have an opinion on it" seems restrictive on it to me. Also, privilege in and of itself is a very subjective term with many hidden connotations. In short; I am too tired to properly formulate an answer :P

[dirtyboxer55]

feels good to be white and male