Suicide of Transgender Teen Sparks Heightened Advocacy for Trans Rights

[Thunderstorm]

The suicide of transgender teenager Leelah Alcorn has brought heightened attention to the injustices that transgender individuals face.

Alcorn, 17, walked in front of a tractor trailer in Warren County in Ohio early Sunday morning. She left behind a wrenching suicide note on Tumblr, which she scheduled to post a few hours after her death. Leelah's note has over 50,000 shares and comments on Tumblr thus far.

In the note, Leelah spoke about not being accepted by her Christian parents for her true gender identity, and how they wouldn’t give her consent to begin transitioning on her 16th birthday. “I immediately told my mom, and she reacted extremely negatively, telling me that it was a phase, that I would never truly be a girl, that God doesn’t make mistakes, that I am wrong,” she wrote. Leelah then goes on to describe how her parents took her to Christian therapists, who told her she was “selfish” and “wrong” and she should “look to God for help." As a final wish, she implores parents to not do the same to their children.

Alcorn’s mother wrote a Facebook post in which she described her daughter's death as an accident, and referred to Alcorn by her birth name, Joshua Ryan, instead of Leelah.

The suicide rate for transgender youths is staggeringly high. The Youth Suicide Prevention Program reports that over 50 percent of transgender youths have attempted to commit suicide at least once before reaching the age of 20. Health care options for transgender individuals are limited as well, and the majority of violence perpetuated against LGBT folks stems from transphobia. Recent data from the National Coalition of Anti-Violence Programs shows that nearly three-quarters of LGBT homicide victims in 2013 (72 percent) were transgender women.

In her note, Leelah requests that her things be sold and the money be donated to transgender civil rights and support groups. “The only way I will rest in peace is if one day transgender people aren’t treated the way I was, they’re treated like humans, with valid feelings and human rights. Gender needs to be taught about in schools, the earlier the better. My death needs to mean something. My death needs to be counted in the number of transgender people who commit suicide this year. I want someone to look at that number and say “that’s fucked up” and fix it. Fix society. Please,” she wrote.

Leelah’s death has sparked an outcry on Twitter from activists and transgender leaders, like Janet Mock, advocating for compassion and tolerance.


So upset to hear about #LeelahAlcorn. Sadly I know this story is common in the trans community. We need to raise awareness-

— Gerard Sleigh (@gerardway) December 30, 2014


RIP #LeelahAlcorn, lovely girl, talented illustrator. You deserved the freedom to grow up and fully realize your dreams. I'm so sorry.

— Suzy X. (@msmalcriada) December 30, 2014


Leelah's note checked parents on intolerance, challenged medical gatekeepers, highlighted power of social media & upheld self-determination.

— Janet Mock (@janetmock) December 30, 2014

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/suicide-of-transgender-teen-sparks-heightened-advocacy-for-trans-rights/ar-BBhmIqo

This just hurts me. Someone as precious as Leelah is gone, gone forever. It hurts even more because I'm having coming out issues right now. LGBTQ suicide needs to end, now.

[Elysium]

This upsets me so much. I've been following this story and I read her suicide note and I'm beside myself.

[Leprous]

Now this is why I'm not religious. This pisses me off so much.

[Babs]

I'm so very sad about what happened to Leelah. And angry that her parents continue to call her Josh even in death, which is part of what caused her to feel that there was no way out.

[Calliope]

What happened to Leelah is heartbreaking. I hope her parents realize that they are murderers, and live the rest of their lives in misery.

[Elliott_hn]

this really upsets me. LGBT people should be accepted more in the world. its 2015 for fuck sake

[Plane And Simple]

I really hope the pope can do something to fix this. I have nothing against religion now that he's in charge, but let's change it to something more XXI Century-looking.

Shame to her parents though. I have no words at all.

[Foamy]

The only comment I'll make about this wth my sanity intact is that it's amazing at how antiquated and ignorant people are. Each and every person who cannot see past their own bigotry will be the ones to burn in hell (if there is one), not those that are different.

[thatcountrykid]

Is it just me or does it seem like she killed herself in hopes of being a martyr?

[Lovelife090994]

He wanted himself to be a martyr. He said he wanted his death to mean something. He got his wish. He was a male, his parents had a son. They knew a boy. Trans or not, she is a he and his legal name is Josh. I find it sad how he stepped in front of a truck. The driver may never get over that.

[thatcountrykid]

He wanted himself to be a martyr. He said he wanted his death to mean something. He got his wish. He was a male, his parents had a son. They knew a boy. Trans or not, she is a he and his legal name is Josh. I find it sad how he stepped in front of a truck. The driver may never get over that.

I know I won't praise someone who took the easy way out to be a martyr and others shouldn't. Yes it's sad and yes his parents should have supported him but it how he tried to gain support that I don't think he deserves praise.

[Lovelife090994]

I know I won't praise someone who took the easy way out to be a martyr and others shouldn't. Yes it's sad and yes his parents should have supported him but it how he tried to gain support that I don't think he deserves praise.

People will praise him anyway and call him a girl regardless. Transgenderism is the one mental scenario that is acceptable and explored. No doubt this is terrible news, but no doubt many will care.

All the aid for trans, he could have gotten help and housing. And now his parents are being threatened and he is dead and America is divided.

[Babs]

He wanted himself to be a martyr. He said he wanted his death to mean something. He got his wish. He was a male, his parents had a son. They knew a boy. Trans or not, she is a he and his legal name is Josh. I find it sad how he stepped in front of a truck. The driver may never get over that.

Even in her death, you refuse to give her the respect she never thought she would get; that's why she killed herself. Don't call transwomen "he". Transmisogyny is why she killed herself. Yes, her legal name is Josh, but the fact that she killed herself over this shit isn't enough for you, I guess.

[Lovelife090994]

Even in her death, you refuse to give her the respect she never thought she would get; that's why she killed herself. Don't call transwomen "he". Transmisogyny is why she killed herself. Yes, her legal name is Josh, but the fact that she killed herself over this shit isn't enough for you, I guess.

She's a he. He's male. This is where I draw the line. It was a delusional twist of thinking. If I went around denying reality I'd be treated like a monster and labeled insane. Can't call a cow a duck. His parents lost a son and he killed himself to prove a sick point. He made someone else his executioner. I respect his rights to lunacy but I won't indulge in or encourage it. A transperson is still the sex they are born as. No surgery or hormones will ever rewrite their birth. The only pass is if he was a hermaphrodite. No one can help that but he was male not a hermaphrodite.

[kartik]

Sad to hear

[Southside]

Now this is why I'm not religious. This pisses me off so much.


Right, because every Christian is a homophobe and looks down on those who identify with the LGBT community.

Sad regardless, parents will have to live with that guilt for the rest of their days

OH AND WHAT ABOUT THE TRUCK DRIVER? Its not like he has to live with the fact that his truck served as a execution device, I bet no one on tumblr is pouring out support to him.

[Leprous]

Right, because every Christian is a homophobe and looks down on those who identify with the LGBT community.

Sad regardless, parents will have to live with that guilt for the rest of their days

OH AND WHAT ABOUT THE TRUCK DRIVER? Its not like he has to live with the fact that his truck served as a execution device, I bet no one on tumblr is pouring out support to him.

Ladeh I never said every religious person is bad calm your tits.

[SethfromMI]

He wanted himself to be a martyr. He said he wanted his death to mean something. He got his wish. He was a male, his parents had a son. They knew a boy. Trans or not, she is a he and his legal name is Josh. I find it sad how he stepped in front of a truck. The driver may never get over that.

it is so sad for the teen who died, but one does have to feel bad for the trucker as well. that stuff can traumatize them for life and even though it was not their fault, that is something they now have to live with the rest of their life

[Vlerchan]

A transperson is still the sex they are born as.
She was Transgender.

[Foamy]

She's a he. He's male. This is where I draw the line. It was a delusional twist of thinking. If I went around denying reality I'd be treated like a monster and labeled insane. Can't call a cow a duck. His parents lost a son and he killed himself to prove a sick point. He made someone else his executioner. I respect his rights to lunacy but I won't indulge in or encourage it. A transperson is still the sex they are born as. No surgery or hormones will ever rewrite their birth. The only pass is if he was a hermaphrodite. No one can help that but he was male not a hermaphrodite.

Physically, you are correct. She was born as a boy. The thing that you, like many other people that do not acknowledge or support the transgender community, do not understand is that gender does not matter what is between a person's legs. Someone's gender identity is how they identify themselves, whether boy/girl/whatever. She identified as a female. She may not have been female but that is what she wanted to be. When transgender people claim that they are "girls trapped in boys bodies" as Leelah was, that is them basically saying "I'm a girl not a boy". She wanted support to live as a girl, and she did not get that due to her "family" and "friends" have outdated religious beliefs. She was trapped, she was alone, and she felt that suicide was the only way to get the recognition that she wanted. It disgusts me that that was the path she chose, but it disgusts me even more that the people that should care about her most just dismissed her and what she believed was right for her. The only lunacy in your post is the fact that you don't rcognize people that are different than you.

[Body odah Man]

Poor people

[Lovelife090994]

Physically, you are correct. She was born as a boy. The thing that you, like many other people that do not acknowledge or support the transgender community, do not understand is that gender does not matter what is between a person's legs. Someone's gender identity is how they identify themselves, whether boy/girl/whatever. She identified as a female. She may not have been female but that is what she wanted to be. When transgender people claim that they are "girls trapped in boys bodies" as Leelah was, that is them basically saying "I'm a girl not a boy". She wanted support to live as a girl, and she did not get that due to her "family" and "friends" have outdated religious beliefs. She was trapped, she was alone, and she felt that suicide was the only way to get the recognition that she wanted. It disgusts me that that was the path she chose, but it disgusts me even more that the people that should care about her most just dismissed her and what she believed was right for her. The only lunacy in your post is the fact that you don't rcognize people that are different than you.

Did you fail biology? Even the strictest religions know a male is male, a female is female and that a hermaphrodite fits neither. You can't say that for a White girl saying she's a Black man, that doesn't even make sense. This person, Josh the name from his parents was a boy in denial. You can't change what you were born to be. He should have embraced what he had. He was a normal boy with two legs, two feet, eyes to see, wasn't deaf, he had it and had two parents. So many people are physically impaired or orphans! He had something few get to have, life, but he threw it away and made someone the executioner. The lunacy I see is in encouraging this denial and insulting biology and nature. He was a human boy in pain but instead of getting help he killed himself. Josh is Josh. Calling him Lehlah doesn't make him such. Besides, it's lunacy to deny what he was and is. He threw himself to the truck, literally. No one can change nature.

[Vlerchan]

Did you fail biology?
Do you understand what gender means?

[Babs]

She's a he. He's male. This is where I draw the line. It was a delusional twist of thinking. If I went around denying reality I'd be treated like a monster and labeled insane. Can't call a cow a duck. His parents lost a son and he killed himself to prove a sick point. He made someone else his executioner. I respect his rights to lunacy but I won't indulge in or encourage it. A transperson is still the sex they are born as. No surgery or hormones will ever rewrite their birth. The only pass is if he was a hermaphrodite. No one can help that but he was male not a hermaphrodite.

Hopefully in a few years you'll look back at this post and realize how idiotic and sickeningly transmisogynistic it is.
Gender and sex are two different things. Learn about it.

[Thunderstorm]

Did you fail biology? Even the strictest religions know a male is male, a female is female and that a hermaphrodite fits neither. You can't say that for a White girl saying she's a Black man, that doesn't even make sense. This person, Josh the name from his parents was a boy in denial. You can't change what you were born to be. He should have embraced what he had. He was a normal boy with two legs, two feet, eyes to see, wasn't deaf, he had it and had two parents. So many people are physically impaired or orphans! He had something few get to have, life, but he threw it away and made someone the executioner. The lunacy I see is in encouraging this denial and insulting biology and nature. He was a human boy in pain but instead of getting help he killed himself. Josh is Josh. Calling him Lehlah doesn't make him such. Besides, it's lunacy to deny what he was and is. He threw himself to the truck, literally. No one can change nature.

Your signature says:
Ephesians 4:2 "Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love."
Yet you are being anything but that.
By the way, I believe Wicca is illegal in most states.
Face the facts. We are advancing towards a more LGBT acceptable world, and you aren't advancing with us,

[Leprous]

Did you fail biology? Even the strictest religions know a male is male, a female is female and that a hermaphrodite fits neither. You can't say that for a White girl saying she's a Black man, that doesn't even make sense. This person, Josh the name from his parents was a boy in denial. You can't change what you were born to be. He should have embraced what he had. He was a normal boy with two legs, two feet, eyes to see, wasn't deaf, he had it and had two parents. So many people are physically impaired or orphans! He had something few get to have, life, but he threw it away and made someone the executioner. The lunacy I see is in encouraging this denial and insulting biology and nature. He was a human boy in pain but instead of getting help he killed himself. Josh is Josh. Calling him Lehlah doesn't make him such. Besides, it's lunacy to deny what he was and is. He threw himself to the truck, literally. No one can change nature.

Fun fact, you /can/ change what you were born as, it's called surgery. Chris buddy, if someone doesn't feel happy with their gender, that doesn't make the bad, does it? Hell, I get the urge to act like a girl sometimes, doed that make a lunatic?

Your signature says:
Ephesians 4:2 "Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love."
Yet you are being anything but that.
By the way, I believe Wicca is illegal in most states.
Face the facts. We are advancing towards a more LGBT acceptable world, and you aren't advancing with us,
Fun fact, he's not even straight.

She's a he. He's male. This is where I draw the line. It was a delusional twist of thinking. If I went around denying reality I'd be treated like a monster and labeled insane. Can't call a cow a duck. His parents lost a son and he killed himself to prove a sick point. He made someone else his executioner. I respect his rights to lunacy but I won't indulge in or encourage it. A transperson is still the sex they are born as. No surgery or hormones will ever rewrite their birth. The only pass is if he was a hermaphrodite. No one can help that but he was male not a hermaphrodite.

Remember when you asked me if I hated you? Remember when you said we didn't get along that well?

If you continue acting like this then I'll hate your fucking guts. Have some fucking respect! This person is dead, and yet you don't care. All that matters to you is the fact that you hate the LGTB. Chris, please stay out of these threads if you don't have anything good to say appart from hating on the victim.

Triple Post Merged. Please use the edit/multi-quote button. -Vulkan

[Thunderstorm]

Fun fact, he's not even straight.

That's ironic.

[Foamy]

Did you fail biology? Even the strictest religions know a male is male, a female is female and that a hermaphrodite fits neither. You can't say that for a White girl saying she's a Black man, that doesn't even make sense. This person, Josh the name from his parents was a boy in denial. You can't change what you were born to be. He should have embraced what he had. He was a normal boy with two legs, two feet, eyes to see, wasn't deaf, he had it and had two parents. So many people are physically impaired or orphans! He had something few get to have, life, but he threw it away and made someone the executioner. The lunacy I see is in encouraging this denial and insulting biology and nature. He was a human boy in pain but instead of getting help he killed himself. Josh is Josh. Calling him Lehlah doesn't make him such. Besides, it's lunacy to deny what he was and is. He threw himself to the truck, literally. No one can change nature.

The key is acceptance. She didn't get any. You aren't giving any. Talk to me again when you decide acceptance is okay.

[Lovelife090994]

Do you understand what gender means?

Hopefully in a few years you'll look back at this post and realize how idiotic and sickeningly transmisogynistic it is.
Gender and sex are two different things. Learn about it.

Your signature says:
Ephesians 4:2 "Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love."
Yet you are being anything but that.
By the way, I believe Wicca is illegal in most states.
Face the facts. We are advancing towards a more LGBT acceptable world, and you aren't advancing with us,

Fun fact, you /can/ change what you were born as, it's called surgery. Chris buddy, if someone doesn't feel happy with their gender, that doesn't make the bad, does it? Hell, I get the urge to act like a girl sometimes, doed that make a lunatic?


Fun fact, he's not even straight.



Remember when you asked me if I hated you? Remember when you said we didn't get along that well?

If you continue acting like this then I'll hate your fucking guts. Have some fucking respect! This person is dead, and yet you don't care. All that matters to you is the fact that you hate the LGTB. Chris, please stay out of these threads if you don't have anything good to say appart from hating on the victim.

Triple Post Merged. Please use the edit/multi-quote button. -Vulkan

The key is acceptance. She didn't get any. You aren't giving any. Talk to me again when you decide acceptance is okay.

That's ironic.

Notice you all think your way is the only way. I stated the facts. Hate me on that I don't care. If you hate someone for stating the truth then that says so much more about you than me. I don't care if he or she was transgender or transsexual. I don't care if you disagree. I know I hate humanity and suicide even though I may relish in it myself. I don't care. Never did. No label, religion, or beliefs, or quotes, not even Bible verses will change that. So what if I'm not straight? As if I know or care at this point. I stated the facts you all stated opinion and hatred. What do want a parade? What do you want? We can't all agree? You want me to suddenly have an epiphany and be trans advocate of the year? Didn't think so. Sorry if you're offended. I'm more jealous. Jealous he's dead and I'm not.

[Babs]

Hate me on that I don't care.

Translation: "I'm aware I'm being shitty but refuse to change that."

[Lovelife090994]

Translation: "I'm aware I'm being shitty but refuse to change that."

Translation, "you don't know me or my story. Worry about yourself."

[Elysium]

Translation, "you don't know me or my story. Worry about yourself."
I don't know why your story should excuse your ignorant and disrespectful behavior or beliefs. I'm not worried about you, I'm worried about the next transgender teenager you could help drive to suicide.

[Lovelife090994]

I don't know why your story should excuse your ignorant and disrespectful behavior or beliefs. I'm not worried about you, I'm worried about the next transgender teenager you could help drive to suicide.

You're talking to one. I'm actually planning it now. You're the ignorant one thinking yourself so high and right. More than trans people commit suicide, not always for gender or sexuality. But you don't care, that never makes news. Good bye moderator.

[thatcountrykid]

Here's my two cents. Yeah it sucks he/she died but I won't lose any sleep or become emotional about cause honestly I don't care. The only emotion I have over it is probably anger that they made someone else do it.

Also I find it funny you all preach acceptance but pounce on someone for their beleifs no matter if they are rude or mean or what have you. Be what you preach.

[Lovelife090994]

Here's my two cents. Yeah it sucks he/she died but I won't lose any sleep or become emotional about cause honestly I don't care. The only emotion I have over it is probably anger that they made someone else do it.

Also I find it funny you all preach acceptance but pounce on someone for their beleifs no matter if they are rude or mean or what have you. Be what you preach.

Thank you.

[Vlerchan]

Also I find it funny you all preach acceptance but pounce on someone for their beleifs no matter if they are rude or mean or what have you. Be what you preach.
His belief is objectively wrong.

---

Lovelife, what is gender?

[Lovelife090994]

His belief is objectively wrong.

---

Lovelife, what is gender?

Gender is what you are be it male or female. It is often synonymous to sex. If sex and gender differ then this opens the door for problems and mental instability.

[Thunderstorm]

You're talking to one. I'm actually planning it now. You're the ignorant one thinking yourself so high and right. More than trans people commit suicide, not always for gender or sexuality. But you don't care, that never makes news. Good bye moderator.

FYI, Chris, you were the one who pounced on other people. When I posted this thread, I meant it as news, and just for people to comment about it. You started a debate in the news section. Everyone who posted before you was just commenting about how bad it was and you had to start a debate on a calm thread. Thank you for that.

[Vlerchan]

Gender is what you are be it male or female.
I don't think it's possible to construct a more unspecific definition.

It is often synonymous to sex.
Well, it's not. (http://www.who.int/gender/whatisgender/en/)

If sex and gender differ then this opens the door for problems and mental instability.
How?

[thatcountrykid]

Thank you.

Don't thank me. In not supporting anyone here.

His belief is objectively wrong.

---

Lovelife, what is gender?

You want others to be accepting? You do it yourself. No matter what they say.

[Vlerchan]

You want others to be accepting? You do it yourself. No matter what they say.

I'm not arguing that people be accepting. I'm arguing that people don't act in an illogical manner because it wrecks people's lives.

[Lovelife090994]

FYI, Chris, you were the one who pounced on other people. When I posted this thread, I meant it as news, and just for people to comment about it. You started a debate in the news section. Everyone who posted before you was just commenting about how bad it was and you had to start a debate on a calm thread. Thank you for that.

This is not a calm topic. And you and I are just humans who differ on life and love. You're the one starting a fracas. I gave my views and regards. You went and pounced on me. People like you are making death threats to thr parents and truck driver over a sick individual. And by the way, Wicca isn't illegal in the US.



I don't think it's possible to construct a more unspecific definition.


Well, it's not. (http://www.who.int/gender/whatisgender/en/)


How?

I just explained it. Ditch the liberal mindset and think about it for a moment. A boy claiming they are a girl? That makes no sense whatsoever.

Don't thank me. In not supporting anyone here.



You want others to be accepting? You do it yourself. No matter what they say.

Ok

[Horatio Nelson]

VTDC :arrow: ROTW

This debate should not be influenced by personal issues. If things can't stay civilized and polite it will be locked.

[Cognizant]

I just explained it. Ditch the liberal mindset and think about it for a moment. A boy claiming they are a girl? That makes no sense whatsoever.
The way I see gender is comparable to the way I see sexuality - you can choose to label yourself whatever you please. Only you can define your sexuality, and sometimes it's hard to gauge your preferences. The same applies to gender. For Leelah, she, while had the sex and the genitals of what would be considered a Male, felt like she better fit the defining factors of a female.

But I don't know, that's only my conjecture on her rationale. I'm a cis male, but I can understand why some first-born males would say that they feel like they're meant to be female. You wouldn't hate on someone for saying that they feel like they're attracted to the same gender, would they?

If you were to visualize it as she killed herself over sexuality, it'd be like her parents refused to accept that h/she was gay and suppressed all "gay" thoughts from occurring.

[Lovelife090994]

The way I see gender is comparable to the way I see sexuality - you can choose to label yourself whatever you please. Only you can define your sexuality, and sometimes it's hard to gauge your preferences. The same applies to gender. For Leelah, she, while had the sex and the genitals of what would be considered a Male, felt like she better fit the defining factors of a female.

But I don't know, that's only my conjecture on her rationale. I'm a cis male, but I can understand why some first-born males would say that they feel like they're meant to be female. You wouldn't hate on someone for saying that they feel like they're attracted to the same gender, would they?

If you were to visualize it as she killed herself over sexuality, it'd be like her parents refused to accept that h/she was gay and suppressed all "gay" thoughts from occurring.


Basically being transgender is not a reason for suicide? I am not against Josh but I am avainst his martyrdom and those who blindly support him and deny what he was.

[Cognizant]

Basically being transgender is not a reason for suicide? I am not against Josh but I am avainst his martyrdom and those who blindly support him and deny what he was.

I never intended to say that transgender is not a reason to commit suicide. I'm just trying to say that gender can be independent from your genetic sex, much like how one's sexuality is an independent variable from their genetically determined sex. Leelah committed suicide because her parents didn't accept her for what Leelah felt like she was. Similarly, many other gay/lesbian/bisexual/etc teens commit suicide because they come out to their parents and the parents simply won't tolerate it, imploring that they be "cleansed" to be only attracted to others of the opposite sex.

I find it odd that you seem somewhat supportive of other teens on VT who feel like they're attracted to the same sex rather than the opposite sex (pro gay rights), yet you gloss over transgender people like they're in a completely different scenario. The truth is, their situation is almost exactly the same as the other LGB kids, just with transgender teens it's a different set of labels.

[Living For Love]

I'm actually disappointed with what some people are saying here. She was more than a transgender, she was a human being, with a family that didn't understand her, and going through such a hard phase in her life that made her make that decision. Was it avoidable? I don't know, but I'm pretty sure that if only her parents, the people who were most close to her and who should be the first to support her, understood their own daughter, things would probably had been different.

[Lovelife090994]

I never intended to say that transgender is not a reason to commit suicide. I'm just trying to say that gender can be independent from your genetic sex, much like how one's sexuality is an independent variable from their genetically determined sex. Leelah committed suicide because her parents didn't accept her for what Leelah felt like she was. Similarly, many other gay/lesbian/bisexual/etc teens commit suicide because they come out to their parents and the parents simply won't tolerate it, imploring that they be "cleansed" to be only attracted to others of the opposite sex.

I find it odd that you seem somewhat supportive of other teens on VT who feel like they're attracted to the same sex rather than the opposite sex (pro gay rights), yet you gloss over transgender people like they're in a completely different scenario. The truth is, their situation is almost exactly the same as the other LGB kids, just with transgender teens it's a different set of labels.

I don't have to believe as you do. I only sided with gays so I'd stop getting beat up by them and to stop the death threats. Transgenderism is different. I say let them be in their own delusions but don't ask me to support it. He is Josh, his birth name and legal name. Leelah was a confused boy who felt feminine who killed himself to prove a sick point. I don't care how hurt he was. Trans people have more help than some regular people so he could had gotten help.
I'm actually disappointed with what some people are saying here. She was more than a transgender, she was a human being, with a family that didn't understand her, and going through such a hard phase in her life that made her make that decision. Was it avoidable? I don't know, but I'm pretty sure that if only her parents, the people who were most close to her and who should be the first to support her, understood their own daughter, things would probably had been different.

They didn't have a daughter.

[StoppingTime]

They didn't have a daughter.

This mantra of "she was a boy because that's how she was born" is getting rather repetitive, don't you think? As a number of people have already pointed out, someone who is transgender is not inherently transexual (not that transsexuality doesn't exist, because it does, but that's not what this case is about). Gender is a construct that often, but not always, is the same as one's biological sex. Leelah's gender was female (or something non-male, I suppose, I don't think we know much else?) and I'm not sure how you can sit here and dispute that. Your only argument has been "well sex is synonymous with gender and anyone who thinks otherwise is possibly mentally unstable." You've provided no basis to this other than things such as "I'm the one presenting fact - you're all presenting opinions"...despite the fact that those replying to you have often cited their sources, and explained why your point of view on this matter is inherently incorrect.

[Babs]

Translation, "you don't know me or my story. Worry about yourself."

Why should I just worry about myself when transgender teens are killing themselves over this shit?
Gender is psychological, while sex is physiological. I suggest you learn the difference. Like Steven said, your point, or lack thereof, is very repetitive. At this point, you're being blatantly and willfully ignorant and it's a rather sorry sight.

[Lovelife090994]

Why should I just worry about myself when transgender teens are killing themselves over this shit?
Gender is psychological, while sex is physiological. I suggest you learn the difference. Like Steven said, your point, or lack thereof, is very repetitive. At this poi
nt, you're being blatantly and willfully ignorant and it's a rather sorry sight.

What's sorry is your lack of acceptance and knowledge of nature. He is a he, she is a she, it doesn't get any simpler than that. You're the ignorant one pouncing on anyone with sense to know a boy is still a boy no matter what he does. You know that but you don't want to believe it anymore as if you've been reprogrammed. Humans are gullible.

This mantra of "she was a boy because that's how she was born" is getting rather repetitive, don't you think? As a number of people have already pointed out, someone who is transgender is not inherently transexual (not that transsexuality doesn't exist, because it does, but that's not what this case is about). Gender is a construct that often, but not always, is the same as one's biological sex. Leelah's gender was female (or something non-male, I suppose, I don't think we know much else?) and I'm not sure how you can sit here and dispute that. Your only argument has been "well sex is synonymous with gender and anyone who thinks otherwise is possibly mentally unstable." You've provided no basis to this other than things such as "I'm the one presenting fact - you're all presenting opinions"...despite the fact that those replying to you have often cited their sources, and explained why your point of view on this matter is inherently incorrect.

Sources? Like what? Try Nature. Males are males, females are females. A person such as Leelah was born male therefore he is a he and is male because that is what he was born as without any choice. Him wanting to be a girl goes against nature. Nature made him a he, not a she. That is simple, that is logical. He wanted to die, he got his wish. Now the world mourns the death of one sad human while thousands more die but will never be heard. You can call him a she all you want but it's very clear to me. His parents had a son. It doesn't matter how masculine or feminine he was, he's a he, not Leelah, his Leelah was some split persona he manifested that you and others rejoice over. Have you forgotten how people like him are willing to beat others who state the facts of his physical gender? It's laughable how you say you're accepting but you dismiss others who disagree, run them through dirt, and shoot them down and walk over the corpse. One day this world will know the truth. And me and others will have the last laugh. You on the other hand will be wondering what we're laughing at. The LGBT is laughable. Proclaiming peace but spreading hate by division of with us or against us. There is no middle ground. People lose whole businesses who politely refusing to get involved yet the supporters rally on. This death was a mistake, and he is no saint.

[Babs]

What's sorry is your lack of acceptance and knowledge of nature. He is a he, she is a she, it doesn't get any simpler than that.

Like I said, read up on psychological gender rather than reiterating a fact that only applies to biological sex. Even then when it comes to biological sex it's not necessarily true because there is such a thing as intersex.
You've been given sources on the difference between gender and sex, yet you're still willfully ignorant.

[Lovelife090994]

Like I said, read up on psychological gender rather than reiterating a fact that only applies to biological sex. Even then when it comes to biological sex it's not necessarily true because there is such a thing as intersex.
You've been given sources on the difference between gender and sex, yet you're still willfully ignorant.

I mentioned intersex earlier doll. They are the exception to the rule. This person was not. Read my earlier replies. He killed himself over nothing despite having everything few people have anymore. Want to consultt he voices in my head? Maybe they'll give you my answer better than I can. I told you everything I thought on this already.

[Vlerchan]

Lovelife, sex and gender are not the same things.

Him being a transwoman meant he felt feminine (personality-wise). His family didn't accept that people with penises can feel feminine. That's what this is about.

Doll.

[Lovelife090994]

Lovelife, sex and gender are not the same things.

Him being a transwoman meant he felt feminine (personality-wise). His family didn't accept that people with penises can feel feminine. That's what this is about.

Doll.

Okay I'll bite. What are you talking about? Good luck communicating to my mind or what's left of it. I've already given up.

[Babs]

I mentioned intersex earlier doll. They are the exception to the rule. This person was not. Read my earlier replies. He killed himself over nothing despite having everything few people have anymore. Want to consultt he voices in my head? Maybe they'll give you my answer better than I can. I told you everything I thought on this already.

Don't you ever fucking call me "doll" again.
"Rules" don't apply to gender. Your "rules" don't get to dictate how other people identify themselves.
She clearly had severe depression over her family, and that's not "nothing". Congrats on trivializing transgender issues though.

[Vlerchan]

What are you talking about?
I provided a link earlier that states.

Sometimes it is hard to understand exactly what is meant by the term "gender", and how it differs from the closely related term "sex".

"Sex" refers to the biological and physiological characteristics that define men and women.

"Gender" refers to the socially constructed roles, behaviours, activities, and attributes that a given society considers appropriate for men and women.

http://www.who.int/gender/whatisgender/en/

Leelah was a Transgender. She was not - emphasis on not - Transsexual. This means she rejected the idea that she should behave masculine and preferred to behave feminine. She decided that her behaviour was more in-line with that of the female gender and so considered herself a woman. Her family could not accept that people with penises can have a feminine personality like people with vaginas.

The dispute is over this.

[StoppingTime]

Clearly there are certain members here who cannot take part in debates in a civil, respectful manner, and as a result of such posts, this thread has to be closed to avoid further escalation. :locked: