Cops with cameras.

[CosmicNoodle]

First things first, keep it civil, I'm sick of arguments and aggravation, lets just have a nice conversation, Ok?

We've all heard of the idea to equitpt all police officers with small cameras, to record interaction with civs. Personally, I'm all for this, we need to be able to hold the police accountable, and we have no doubt had a small revolution lately, of the police actually being held accountable (sort off) for actions, well, when I say accountable, I mean we know they did it, but they still got away.

But thinking about this, I wonder, will it make any difference? We already have so much evidence, in so many cases, that the police where in the wrong, but it never makes a hint of difference, because our world wide justice system, seems to favour the police, it never seems to condemn them, they never seem to get any punishment worse than "temporally suspended with pay".
Will actual video evidence, deter the police from (forgive my primitive wording) fucking shit up? Because as far as I can tell, no fucks will be given, because no matter what, we never seem to punish officers for there crimes.


Anyway, just my two cents on the idea of the cameras, and them being an actual deterrent, what do you think?
(Once again, lets just have a nice conversation, please?)

[Vlerchan]

This study examined the use of body cameras by police officers to reduce the incidence of police-use-of-force. This study was conducted to determine whether body cameras worn by police officers would reduce the incidences of police-use-of-force. Findings from the study include the following: shifts in which officers did not use body cameras experienced twice as many incidents of police-use-of-force compared to shifts where officers used body cameras; and the number of complaints against the police for excessive use of force dropped from 28 complaints in the 12 months prior to the study to 3 during the study period. Researchers were unable to compute a treatment effect due to the large overall reduction in the number of complaints. The study was conducted with the assistance of the Rialto Police Department. All 54 frontline officers in the department participated in the study. The officers were randomly assigned to either the control group – no use of body cameras, or the experimental group – use of body cameras. The officers in the experimental group were instructed to wear the body cameras during their entire shift and to record all public-police encounters. The content of the videotapes were analyzed to determine the effect of the camera on the incidences of police-use-of-force. The findings from the analysis suggest that the presence of the cameras resulted in an almost 50 percent reduction in the total number of incidents of use of force, and that when cameras were not used (the control group), citizen complaints were almost 10 times higher compared to the experimental group. Suggestions for future research are discussed.

https://www.ncjrs.gov/App/Publications/abstract.aspx?ID=265672

It's not the be-all and end-all but it's something.

[Babs]

I think it'd be great and helpful, but there are people killed by cops ON CAMERA but they still won't get indicted. For this to work, in addition to the cameras, we need to personally hold cops accountable for their actions; we can't let allow them to be above the law.

[CosmicNoodle]

This study examined the use of body cameras by police officers to reduce the incidence of police-use-of-force. This study was conducted to determine whether body cameras worn by police officers would reduce the incidences of police-use-of-force. Findings from the study include the following: shifts in which officers did not use body cameras experienced twice as many incidents of police-use-of-force compared to shifts where officers used body cameras; and the number of complaints against the police for excessive use of force dropped from 28 complaints in the 12 months prior to the study to 3 during the study period. Researchers were unable to compute a treatment effect due to the large overall reduction in the number of complaints. The study was conducted with the assistance of the Rialto Police Department. All 54 frontline officers in the department participated in the study. The officers were randomly assigned to either the control group – no use of body cameras, or the experimental group – use of body cameras. The officers in the experimental group were instructed to wear the body cameras during their entire shift and to record all public-police encounters. The content of the videotapes were analyzed to determine the effect of the camera on the incidences of police-use-of-force. The findings from the analysis suggest that the presence of the cameras resulted in an almost 50 percent reduction in the total number of incidents of use of force, and that when cameras were not used (the control group), citizen complaints were almost 10 times higher compared to the experimental group. Suggestions for future research are discussed.

https://www.ncjrs.gov/App/Publications/abstract.aspx?ID=265672

It's not the be-all and end-all but it's something.

I still find it funny, they can video tape us, but as soon as a civ video tapes a cop, they have a high chance of being convicted, double standard much...

[Abyssal Echo]

I think it'd be great and helpful, but there are people killed by cops ON CAMERA but they still won't get indicted. For this to work, in addition to the cameras, we need to personally hold cops accountable for their actions; we can't let allow them to be above the law.

I totally agree with this ^

[fairmaiden]

I'm not really sure. I feel like there would be a high chance of police (who have done wrong) tampering with the footage; which would help them get off scot free of course. Even when there is video evidence that shows someone being killed, the police usually get away with it, so I don't see the point really.

[thatcountrykid]

Just my two cents here and this is the only post I want to make here but ever consider that police get let go because maybe there wasn't any legal wrong doin? Or that not all police killing should be assumed bad?

[CosmicNoodle]

Just my two cents here and this is the only post I want to make here but ever consider that police get let go because maybe there wasn't any legal wrong doin? Or that not all police killing should be assumed bad?

I agree, let's not argue today. But one small point I will make, I don't expect you to answer, or that your able.

Not all police killing is bad? Fair enough, I can agree with that, often, lethal force is the last option, but you can't deny that when looking at other country's that lethal force is over used in America, your police force seem to be trained to use it as soon as they are met with the slightest of hindrance, anyway, refute that or not it matters not.
And you are always obsessed with what they are doing is legal, you forget, killing someone, as soon as you are lefgaly able, simply because its easy, is not the moral option, you can't claim to protect the people and fight for what's good if you constantly drop morals just to use the easy and "safe" (honestly not very safe) option.

Anyway, let's not argue today, pointless, you'll never learn,

[thatcountrykid]

I agree, let's not argue today. But one small point I will make, I don't expect you to answer, or that your able.

Not all police killing is bad? Fair enough, I can agree with that, often, lethal force is the last option, but you can't deny that when looking at other country's that lethal force is over used in America, your police force seem to be trained to use it as soon as they are met with the slightest of hindrance, anyway, refute that or not it matters not.
And you are always obsessed with what they are doing is legal, you forget, killing someone, as soon as you are lefgaly able, simply because its easy, is not the moral option, you can't claim to protect the people and fight for what's good if you constantly drop morals just to use the easy and "safe" (honestly not very safe) option.

Anyway, let's not argue today, pointless, you'll never learn,

do you think they kill someone and just walk away happy? hats the thing they fear most. i want to see you faced with a deadly situation and then tell me how you feel. none of us will ever know what that is like or how it should go until you are in that spot

[phuckphace]

yes, they should have cameras. cameras on their persons and their patrol cars should be festooned with them. everything they do should go straight to the Internet for the world to see.

pity I'm not in charge, or this CopVision would be put to good use as a spectacle in the same tradition as the public executions of the old days ("this is what happens when you disturb the Ordnung"). A few tens of thousands of videos of murders and child rapists and drug traffickers getting BTFO, can you imagine? http://i.imgur.com/MclEtyn.gif

[CosmicNoodle]

do you think they kill someone and just walk away happy? hats the thing they fear most. i want to see you faced with a deadly situation and then tell me how you feel. none of us will ever know what that is like or how it should go until you are in that spot

Actually I have had people pull deadly weapons on me twice in my life thus far, I know just how it feels, my immediate response was not "kill them". You sir are the one who doesn't know what he's talking about.
Your police force is trained to use deadly force in far to many situations, with far to much ease. You guys seem to think it's "shoot first, questions later, maybe". Look at the rest of the (more civilised) world, most of us don't just shoot people or kill them in the street. The Uk for example (I use this because I live here and know most about it), we don't simply murder peple on the spot, we have an actual plan in place when shit goes south, instead of just killing things and fucking shit up.

And as another point, so far, they have all walked away happy, they walk away scot free.

[Meh Guy]

First things first, keep it civil, I'm sick of arguments and aggravation, lets just have a nice conversation, Ok?

We've all heard of the idea to equitpt all police officers with small cameras, to record interaction with civs. Personally, I'm all for this, we need to be able to hold the police accountable, and we have no doubt had a small revolution lately, of the police actually being held accountable (sort off) for actions, well, when I say accountable, I mean we know they did it, but they still got away.

But thinking about this, I wonder, will it make any difference? We already have so much evidence, in so many cases, that the police where in the wrong, but it never makes a hint of difference, because our world wide justice system, seems to favour the police, it never seems to condemn them, they never seem to get any punishment worse than "temporally suspended with pay".
Will actual video evidence, deter the police from (forgive my primitive wording) fucking shit up? Because as far as I can tell, no fucks will be given, because no matter what, we never seem to punish officers for there crimes.


Anyway, just my two cents on the idea of the cameras, and them being an actual deterrent, what do you think?
(Once again, lets just have a nice conversation, please?)

I think it might be a deterrent. Just as the law against police brutality did in fact weed out some of the asshole cops. However, let me offer my two cents. I'd like to compare cops to sports referees, in authority only, not the whole "protect and serve" quite obviously. In a game, minor leagues usually because we aren't being paid as much, a referee could blatantly be a crappy ref, and be complained about. However, they face almost no repercussions since the way it is perceived. You can't tell them what they saw, it was their judgement. They saw it a certain way, and acted the way they saw fit. Think of a police officer. In the matter of seconds it may take for someone waving what might be a fake gun or knife to come at you with it, they have to think of these things:

1. Is it fake?
2. Is the person posing a real bodily threat to me or anyone around me?
3. Has this person displayed any signs of mental instability that would cause them to act out of the norm?
4. If I shoot/taser/subdue them, will it be deemed acceptable/ will it possibly kill them?

You get like 4 seconds to figure these things out. I'm not defending the actions of the police, I'm just trying to take everything in hand. Anyways. That's my rant, albeit a bit off topic.

[CosmicNoodle]

I think it might be a deterrent. Just as the law against police brutality did in fact weed out some of the asshole cops. However, let me offer my two cents. I'd like to compare cops to sports referees, in authority only, not the whole "protect and serve" quite obviously. In a game, minor leagues usually because we aren't being paid as much, a referee could blatantly be a crappy ref, and be complained about. However, they face almost no repercussions since the way it is perceived. You can't tell them what they saw, it was their judgement. They saw it a certain way, and acted the way they saw fit. Think of a police officer. In the matter of seconds it may take for someone waving what might be a fake gun or knife to come at you with it, they have to think of these things:

1. Is it fake?
2. Is the person posing a real bodily threat to me or anyone around me?
3. Has this person displayed any signs of mental instability that would cause them to act out of the norm?
4. If I shoot/taser/subdue them, will it be deemed acceptable/ will it possibly kill them?

You get like 4 seconds to figure these things out. I'm not defending the actions of the police, I'm just trying to take everything in hand. Anyways. That's my rant, albeit a bit off topic.

Well my argument isn't against honest mistakes, I'm talking here about cops who do actually abuse there power, wave there dicks in peoples faces and fuck shit up. That's what I hope them to stop, but then again, offering MORE evidence in the light of cops making mistakes, or making the right call, cameras can't be a bad thing, they can only do good.

[Meh Guy]

Well my argument isn't against honest mistakes, I'm talking here about cops who do actually abuse there power, wave there dicks in peoples faces and fuck shit up. That's what I hope them to stop, but then again, offering MORE evidence in the light of cops making mistakes, or making the right call, cameras can't be a bad thing, they can only do good.

Mm. I see your point. Well, I guess we may just hope that using these cameras, they can decide what is an honest mistake, and a flagrant waste of power, a trigger happy jackass who has no regards for human life.

[CosmicNoodle]

Mm. I see your point. Well, I guess we may just hope that using these cameras, they can decide what is an honest mistake, and a flagrant waste of power, a trigger happy jackass who has no regards for human life.

IF they use cameras, no doubt some grouchy old man in power somewhere will object to it because he doesn't understand it. Or the courst won't allow it because it means the "man" will have to be held accountable for his own actions.

[Meh Guy]

IF they use cameras, no doubt some grouchy old man in power somewhere will object to it because he doesn't understand it. Or the courst won't allow it because it means the "man" will have to be held accountable for his own actions.

No,no, no you're forgetting. It's an invasion of their privacy! Heaven forbid anyone be able to use real life evidence to stop wrong doers! No, that's just silly talk >.>

[CosmicNoodle]

No,no, no you're forgetting. It's an invasion of their privacy! Heaven forbid anyone be able to use real life evidence to stop wrong doers! No, that's just silly talk >.>

They can video tape us, fuck, they can bend us over and finger us to make sure we're not hiding stuff, but turn a camera on them and they will send your ass to county, don't drop the soap mother fucker.

[thatcountrykid]

Well my argument isn't against honest mistakes, I'm talking here about cops who do actually abuse there power, wave there dicks in peoples faces and fuck shit up. That's what I hope them to stop, but then again, offering MORE evidence in the light of cops making mistakes, or making the right call, cameras can't be a bad thing, they can only do good.

cameras can actually have bad aspects. in light of recent racial incidents more and more cops have been hesitant to use force on people of the other race when it is completely justified, causing a threat to the lives of officers and others.

[conniption]

cameras can actually have bad aspects. in light of recent racial incidents more and more cops have been hesitant to use force on people of the other race when it is completely justified, causing a threat to the lives of officers and others.
I actually think police officers might be more on edge and prone to making hasty decisions because of recent events. People are more weary and hostile towards police officers, not to mention the incident with the two assassinated NYPD officers, so perhaps incidents of police brutality could increase.

Anyway, I really don't see a problem with equipping PO's with cameras. It's in no way an invasion of privacy, considering the fact that they already have cameras on their dashboards, one more wouldn't make a difference. Cameras would certainly be more beneficial for PO's and victims of police brutality, as they would make determining whether PO's were justified in using force or not easier.

[CosmicNoodle]

cameras can actually have bad aspects. in light of recent racial incidents more and more cops have been hesitant to use force on people of the other race when it is completely justified, causing a threat to the lives of officers and others.

Ohh for god sake, for the love of all that is holy, I thought that even you would agree with this, tell me, how could ACTUAL VIDEO EVIDENCE harm an officer, provided he is actually doing what he is supposed to be doing? He would only have something to worry about provided he was actually doing something wrong.


The only sort of cop this would harm, is the one that wasn't doing his job properly, the sort of cop that deserves to be punished. But them again, that's the sort of cop your always defending.

[jordanhardy]

I'm not going to draw myself into an argument on here, I've done it many times before. But when the opening post in this thread says that they don't want to cause an argument and the states throughout the whole post that the police are wrong, fuck up all the time, are criminals and have double standards, it's difficult not to get wound up by it and looks like they want to start and argument. 99% of people on here that criticize the police have never even had any contact with an officer. My dad is a firearms officer in the UKand has shot dead somebody before. Immediately after the shooting he was off work for the next year. As soon as an officer shoots someone they are suspended pending an investigation, it took 6 months for the independent police complaints commission to clear my dad of unlawful killing, when he was fired upon first. Even though there was CCTV, independant witnesses and even body worn video cameras worn by officers including my dad which support his actions. After the stress of ending a life, then being dragged through the beurocracy and shit that happens afterwards he was signed off with stress and depression due to the fact that he had nearly died himself trying to do his job.

None if you are in a position to criticize the police, you don't know what it's like to do their job and like I said earlier, you've most likely never been in a confrontation with them. Forget public perception and other people's opinion. Make you own. Stop believing everything the media says about it, most of if is bollocks and only half the facts. Police officers have a tough job and are only human, they will make mistakes and there are some bad eggs which give them a bad name, but it won't do anyone any good to constantly piss and moan about them

[SethfromMI]

I think it would be helpful. for although there are times cops in the wrong, there are many times when they are blamed when they are in the right. I guess you run into the problems was the tape altered or whatever, but if they can figure out a way to make it work effectively and honestly, then why not. cops have a right to be protected just as much as we do

[Stronk Serb]

I'm not going to draw myself into an argument on here, I've done it many times before. But when the opening post in this thread says that they don't want to cause an argument and the states throughout the whole post that the police are wrong, fuck up all the time, are criminals and have double standards, it's difficult not to get wound up by it and looks like they want to start and argument. 99% of people on here that criticize the police have never even had any contact with an officer. My dad is a firearms officer in the UKand has shot dead somebody before. Immediately after the shooting he was off work for the next year. As soon as an officer shoots someone they are suspended pending an investigation, it took 6 months for the independent police complaints commission to clear my dad of unlawful killing, when he was fired upon first. Even though there was CCTV, independant witnesses and even body worn video cameras worn by officers including my dad which support his actions. After the stress of ending a life, then being dragged through the beurocracy and shit that happens afterwards he was signed off with stress and depression due to the fact that he had nearly died himself trying to do his job.

None if you are in a position to criticize the police, you don't know what it's like to do their job and like I said earlier, you've most likely never been in a confrontation with them. Forget public perception and other people's opinion. Make you own. Stop believing everything the media says about it, most of if is bollocks and only half the facts. Police officers have a tough job and are only human, they will make mistakes and there are some bad eggs which give them a bad name, but it won't do anyone any good to constantly piss and moan about them

I got threatened to be taken into custody for no reason and they even cuffed me. Then I asked:
After you go through the bureaucracy to release me because you illegally hold me, will you go through the bureacracy to justify my school absence? It'll take a long time for my mom to come pick me up since I'm a minor, and the whole school day will pass.
I honestly expected a kick in the teeth because we have authoritarian psycopaths in the poluce. Plus he didn't tell me my rights before he cuffed me.

[Magus]

Useless. It always malfunctions when someone dies by the hands of a cop.

[Stronk Serb]

Useless. It always malfunctions when someone dies by the hands of a cop.

Or the memory card get's full so it doesn't catch them. The only time cops on camera got indicted here was when they beat the shit out of our PM's brother for attacking the gay pride parade. Of course, they got indicted because of political machinations of our Glorious Leader. Even when they do get caught breaking the law they are supposed to uphold, they very rarely get indicted.

[Gamma Male]

I don't support cop cameras for two reasons.

1 Eric Garner proved that even when there's crystal clear video evidence that a cop murdered someone, he won't get indicted.

2 They raise numerous potential privacy concerns.

[CosmicNoodle]

I don't support cop cameras for two reasons.

1 Eric Garner proved that even when there's crystal clear video evidence that a cop murdered someone, he won't get indicted.

That is a problem, police seem to be above the law in "the greatest country on earth"

2 They raise numerous potential privacy concerns.

Interesting idea, care to expand? I see where your coming from, but I'm not sure I understand how it could cause privacy concerns, the footage (presumably) would be "need to see only", it's not as if they're going to be posting the footage online for all to see


Also, it would be an expensive task, but considering the US spent over a trillion on a pointless war, the cost is minimal.

[jordanhardy]

I got threatened to be taken into custody for no reason and they even cuffed me. Then I asked:
After you go through the bureaucracy to release me because you illegally hold me, will you go through the bureacracy to justify my school absence? It'll take a long time for my mom to come pick me up since I'm a minor, and the whole school day will pass.
I honestly expected a kick in the teeth because we have authoritarian psycopaths in the poluce. Plus he didn't tell me my rights before he cuffed me.

I think you'll find that they don't have to read you your rights before handcuffing you. I don't know why you were handcuffed in the first place, surely you must have been doing something? Even if it was mistaken identity or something similar, I'm sure they were justified in doing so.

The simple fact is that in this day and age people, especially our generation, don't like being told what to do and feel that they have been wronged when somebody in a position of authority tells them something they don't want to hear. It's the same with teachers etc. Get over it, if you don't want to be treated like an idiot, then dont act like one. If you haven't done anything wrong then there would be no need for you to come in contact with the police.

[Stronk Serb]

I think you'll find that they don't have to read you your rights before handcuffing you. I don't know why you were handcuffed in the first place, surely you must have been doing something? Even if it was mistaken identity or something similar, I'm sure they were justified in doing so.

The simple fact is that in this day and age people, especially our generation, don't like being told what to do and feel that they have been wronged when somebody in a position of authority tells them something they don't want to hear. It's the same with teachers etc. Get over it, if you don't want to be treated like an idiot, then dont act like one. If you haven't done anything wrong then there would be no need for you to come in contact with the police.

I was just walking and they stopped me for a random search. They found a swastika someone scribbled on my notebook and said that Nazis go to jail. I explained I didn't break any law even if I was full on Hitlerjugend and the cop was like lol nope we taking you in and cuffed me. First they didn't justify the search and even if they took me in I'd just sit there since it was an illegal arrest. They let me go after I said I'm not worth the paperwork and that I'll waste their time since my mom comes from work late.

[Attacker3]

The police would not stop even if they did have cameras strapped to them. Like other people have said, it would be way too easy to tamper with it. On the subject of police officers getting convicted, well, they ARE the law to most people in the world. What they say will most likely go. Sad that it has to be like that, but that's what it is.

[the main man]

i don't see anything wrong with it, is satisfies people who hate and stereotype cops and does not affect them unless they act wrong.