Piracy And The Government

[Uranus]

So we all know that piracy is illegal.
And it is punishable. But with all the people who illegally download:

Movies,
Music,
ECT.

What is the Government(All Of Them) going to do about it? I have alot of friends. And probably around 95% or more would tell me they've at least illegally downloaded a single song.

That being said over 85%(For Example) of Virtual Teen would have also.

Which would clearly point out that over 50% of the world has also.

Which would most likely mean that there would definitely not be nearly enough prison cells for all the people who do piracy like crimes.

So what is the government going to do about it?

Are those who do it pretty much safe? Because if they arrest each and every one then there would be no more room for the serious criminals who do crimes like murder, terrorizing, ECT.

So does that mean pirate'rs are almost safe from jail time?


What is your view on the situation?

[Typhlosion]

You really invented that statistic, didn't you? 50% of the world is more than those with access to internet.

And meanwhile it's not exactly wrong what you're saying, it also shouldn't apply to VT because most of us are from 1st world countries.

Researchers surveyed 15,000 people from 33 countries and asked a direct question on software stealing: "How often do you acquire pirated software or software that is not fully licensed?" This year's survey result of 57 percent is up from 42 percent in 2011.

[...]

More study highlights:


Piracy is most rampant in countries with emerging economies.
The United states has the largest market for software, spending 42 billion, and the lowest piracy rate at 19%.
The top three countries with the highest piracy rates are Venezuela at 88 percent, Indonesia at 86 percent, and China at 77 percent.


Source: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/01/software-piracy-study-bsa_n_1563006.html

Even though arguable pretty much everyone uses copyright-infringing material (i.e. listening to music on YouTube)

//////////////////////

Either way, piracy is a problem and it should be handled. The easiest route of punishment is fining people proportionate to the amount of data the downloaded. In harsher cases, like downloading multi-thousand dollar software/a large library of pirated goods/profiting upon piracy, jail-time is ideal. Banning both private and public trackers, as well as having a harsher internet policy (yes, SOPA) would solve many troubles, esp. to the everyday pirateer.

While I shouldn't condone piracy, my family is centered on it and I'm one myself. My father introduced me to it. And, esp. for poorer countries, purchasing software isn't always a viable choice. I pirate because shit's free, though, my playlist shouldn't cost over 2 thousand bucks on iTunes. The only reason why I do not support anti-piracy is because I abuse it. I wouldn't be a metalhead without it, that I'm sure.

[Uranus]

You really invented that statistic, didn't you? 50% of the world is more than those with access to internet.

And meanwhile it's not exactly wrong what you're saying, it also shouldn't apply to VT because most of us are from 1st world countries.



Even though arguable pretty much everyone uses copyright-infringing material (i.e. listening to music on YouTube)

//////////////////////

Either way, piracy is a problem and it should be handled. The easiest route of punishment is fining people proportionate to the amount of data the downloaded. In harsher cases, like downloading multi-thousand dollar software/a large library of pirated goods/profiting upon piracy, jail-time is ideal. Banning both private and public trackers, as well as having a harsher internet policy (yes, SOPA) would solve many troubles, esp. to the everyday pirateer.

While I shouldn't condone piracy, my family is centered on it and I'm one myself. My father introduced me to it. And, esp. for poorer countries, purchasing software isn't always a viable choice. I pirate because shit's free, though, my playlist shouldn't cost over 2 thousand bucks on iTunes. The only reason why I do not support anti-piracy is because I abuse it.


I see your point. What I'm mainly focusing on is the simple things that are pirated. Like music. Which is the number one probably. And the only thing I can think of would be fines for the crime. But that would work, but not entirely.
And I have simply made a rough estimate for vt, as alot of teens love music and alot most likely have done it, not pointing fingers, just saying. And that would mean that...well...a shit ton of people download illegally.

Alot would have probably enough downloads that they couldn't pay the fines.
The majority probably. Meaning if they didn't pay, the only other punishment is jail time.. That would fill up the prisons dramatically! And be so full because of minor crimes(not minor but nothing extreme) then the major criminals have no place in jail because of the high level of pirating people.

So that would mean it's almost pointless to punish for pirating.
It's like marijuana. Illegal, but would probably never be stopped.

So it's almost like the government(s) can't even really do anything about it... Its almost like pirating people have freedom now.

[Typhlosion]

I see your point. What I'm mainly focusing on is the simple things that are pirated. Like music. Which is the number one probably. And the only thing I can think of would be fines for the crime. But that would work, but not entirely.
And I have simply made a rough estimate for vt, as alot of teens love music and alot most likely have done it, not pointing fingers, just saying. And that would mean that...well...a shit ton of people download illegally.

Teens =/= world. Yes, some 80% of teens may pirate music (link (https://www.barna.org/barna-update/article/5-barna-update/139-fewer-than-1-in-10-teenagers-believe-that-music-piracy-is-morally-wrong#.VG6SUPnF86w)), but only 24% in Australia pirate movies(link (http://if.com.au/2013/09/30/article/New-study-shows-almost-1-in-4-teens-are-pirates/ZYUGSPWJDZ.html)).

Alot would have probably enough downloads that they couldn't pay the fines.
The majority probably. Meaning if they didn't pay, the only other punishment is jail time.. That would fill up the prisons dramatically! And be so full because of minor crimes(not minor but nothing extreme) then the major criminals have no place in jail because of the high level of pirating people.

One track on iTunes: a dollar.
One movie: ten dollars
A software: 100 dollars

Let's assume that someone downloads ten thousand(!) tracks illegally, a thousand movies and say 100 software over a life time. That's only 30 thousand dollars, and I wasn't being conservative at all with my guesses. I've seen bigger fines.

So that would mean it's almost pointless to punish for pirating.
It's like marijuana. Illegal, but would probably never be stopped.

If you can not pay for it, that does not mean you should download it. And just because something seems to be hopeless means that we should not enforce it. Also, if more people suffer the consequences, less people are likely to continue pirating. We don't need to arrest everyone in a single night.

Also, marijuana is both fought against and isn't the best example as its consumption does not directly harm anyone (beyond cartels, but the answer to that is legalization and regularization) while piracy obviously harms the copyright owner.

[Uranus]

Teens =/= world. Yes, some 80% of teens may pirate music (link (https://www.barna.org/barna-update/article/5-barna-update/139-fewer-than-1-in-10-teenagers-believe-that-music-piracy-is-morally-wrong#.VG6SUPnF86w)), but only 24% in Australia pirate movies(link (http://if.com.au/2013/09/30/article/New-study-shows-almost-1-in-4-teens-are-pirates/ZYUGSPWJDZ.html)).



One track on iTunes: a dollar.
One movie: ten dollars
A software: 100 dollars

Let's assume that someone downloads ten thousand(!) tracks illegally, a thousand movies and say 100 software over a life time. That's only 30 thousand dollars, and I wasn't being conservative at all with my guesses. I've seen bigger fines.



If you can not pay for it, that does not mean you should download it. And just because something seems to be hopeless means that we should not enforce it. Also, if more people suffer the consequences, less people are likely to continue pirating. We don't need to arrest everyone in a single night.

Also, marijuana is both fought against and isn't the best example as its consumption does not directly harm anyone (beyond cartels, but the answer to that is legalization and regularization) while piracy obviously harms the copyright owner.



I'm not saying it should be left alone let us freely pirate content. I'm just saying it's gonna be hard to control. Even if it's illegal..its gonna be hard to stop it all

[normalperson]

oh man i know too many people who do that and you know what here at least it's one of those things that is not even taken seriously by anyone, it's kind of like the prohibition barely anyone took that seriously considering the fine for smuggling beer was only 100$ when in a single beer run the average smuggler could make over 2000$ each run so as i said not very serious. and so finally when alcohol was legal everyone was still drinking it.

[Typhlosion]

oh man i know too many people who do that and you know what here at least it's one of those things that is not even taken seriously by anyone, it's kind of like the prohibition barely anyone took that seriously considering the fine for smuggling beer was only 100$ when in a single beer run the average smuggler could make over 2000$ each run so as i said not very serious. and so finally when alcohol was legal everyone was still drinking it.

I consider SOPA/PIPA as a serious measure. TPB being banned in the UK is also a serious measure. Google altering their search engine to not suggest 'torrent' is a serious measure. Internet surveillance is a serious measure.

Off-topic, the prohibition did reduce alcohol consumption by 33%.

[normalperson]

i get what your saying.

I consider SOPA/PIPA as a serious measure. TPB being banned in the UK is also a serious measure. Google altering their search engine to not suggest 'torrent' is a serious measure. Internet surveillance is a serious measure.

here in Canada it is so easy because everyone i know who does it uses an IP scrambler doo-hicky whatchamacallit you know what I'm talking about. but i do not know much about IUL's or CL's in other countries.

Off-topic, the prohibition did reduce alcohol consumption by 33%.

it was supposed to reduce it by 100% :3

[Typhlosion]

I see your point. What I'm mainly focusing on is the simple things that are pirated. Like music. Which is the number one probably. And the only thing I can think of would be fines for the crime. But that would work, but not entirely.
And I have simply made a rough estimate for vt, as alot of teens love music and alot most likely have done it, not pointing fingers, just saying. And that would mean that...well...a shit ton of people download illegally.

If you knew how to half-ass a debate you should at search anything. Inventing bullshit statistics is only going to show how ignorant you are and push away people from this conversation.

Guess what? Everything that you assumed/said "probably" was wrong. 50% of the world doesn't pirate, heck, more than 50% of it doesn't even have internet access. In western world, piracy rates are very low, and I assume, by including VT/teenagers, that you'd be talking about developed countries. And music isn't even the number one thing to be pirated, anywhere.

Making a half-assed search on google I found this article (http://www.ipi.org/docLib/20120515_CopyrightPiracy.pdf) that shows the US' losses on piracy. And software piracy dominates in every continent. And the figures shown are dated - the losses are much greater.

http://i.imgur.com/CepjfKf.png

Please research.

[Uranus]

If you knew how to half-ass a debate you should at search anything. Inventing bullshit statistics is only going to show how ignorant you are and push away people from this conversation.

Guess what? Everything that you assumed/said "probably" was wrong. 50% of the world doesn't pirate, heck, more than 50% of it doesn't even have internet access. In western world, piracy rates are very low, and I assume, by including VT/teenagers, that you'd be talking about developed countries. And music isn't even the number one thing to be pirated, anywhere.

Making a half-assed search on google I found this article (http://www.ipi.org/docLib/20120515_CopyrightPiracy.pdf) that shows the US' losses on piracy. And software piracy dominates in every continent. And the figures shown are dated - the losses are much greater.

image (http://i.imgur.com/CepjfKf.png)

Please research.

What in the hell are you all mad about, dude?
Ok I didn't say my estimates were exactly on point...either way there's a shit load of people who do commit piracy. I did my research. Don't be calling my research half-assed. Ok I'm not like you, Einstein. I tried to keep this on point and you're getting upset a little misunderstanding. I don't even know what you are on about.

[Typhlosion]

What in the hell are you all mad about, dude?
Ok I didn't say my estimates were exactly on point...either way there's a shit load of people who do commit piracy. I did my research. Don't be calling my research half-assed. Ok I'm not like you, Einstein. I tried to keep this on point and you're getting upset a little misunderstanding. I don't even know what you are on about.

One, that you're focusing on the media industry as a big issue, when it loses less than film or software piracy.
Two, you've showed absolutely nothing to prove your point beyond uneducated guesses you called estimates.
You then proceed to conclude, based off mere assumptions, that controlling piracy is at least a hard task. You also don't mention VPNs/proxies/secondary networks/issues in 3rd world countries/success and failure of attempts on controlling it in europe. Just numbers out of your head.

[Uranus]

One, that you're focusing on the media industry as a big issue, when it loses less than film or software piracy.
Two, you've showed absolutely nothing to prove your point beyond uneducated guesses you called estimates.
You then proceed to conclude, based off mere assumptions, that controlling piracy is at least a hard task. You also don't mention VPNs/proxies/secondary networks/issues in 3rd world countries/success and failure of attempts on controlling it in europe. Just numbers out of your head.

You know what I'm getting real tired of this argument. I tried to have it focused on one subject but now you're trying to make this thread yours so if you want to make it about more than media, then please, by all means go make your own.

[phuckphace]

I have mixed opinions about it.

yes, piracy is bad and does cause measurable economic damage to the entertainment and software industries. no, people shouldn't acquire copyrighted material without paying the creator(s). yes, people who create things for a living should be able to earn a living from it.

that said, I find it really hard if not impossible to get very worked up about it. it's one of those things, kind of like smoking pot or drinking underage, that we know is illegal but everybody still does anyway because 1984 LMAO. another thing: most of what the entertainment industry churns out is worthless dreck that we wouldn't be any worse off without - we need to protect jobs, but do we really need to protect the ones that flood our culture with shallow consumerism? NOPE. the tech companies are also busily outsourcing as much skilled labor as they can lobby for, which needs to stop happening first before we talk about piracy.

in a semi-perfect world I would suggest levying a piracy tax on ISPs or monthly Internet service to offset the cost of software piracy. if we're just talking shitty movies like Michael Bay summer flicks, seed away.

[Uranus]

I have mixed opinions about it.

yes, piracy is bad and does cause measurable economic damage to the entertainment and software industries. no, people shouldn't acquire copyrighted material without paying the creator(s). yes, people who create things for a living should be able to earn a living from it.

that said, I find it really hard if not impossible to get very worked up about it. it's one of those things, kind of like smoking pot or drinking underage, that we know is illegal but everybody still does anyway because 1984 LMAO. another thing: most of what the entertainment industry churns out is worthless dreck that we wouldn't be any worse off without - we need to protect jobs, but do we really need to protect the ones that flood our culture with shallow consumerism? NOPE. the tech companies are also busily outsourcing as much skilled labor as they can lobby for, which needs to stop happening first before we talk about piracy.

in a semi-perfect world I would suggest levying a piracy tax on ISPs or monthly Internet service to offset the cost of software piracy. if we're just talking shitty movies like Michael Bay summer flicks, seed away.

That's a very good point phuckphace. Your view is the same as mine. Even though it's happening, it's not likely going to be stopped. Like underage drinking and pot as you had pointed out.

Now the piracy tax on ISPs is actually a very good idea. Now all we gotta do is tell the feds :D

[Stronk Serb]

Internet piracy is legal in Serbia. The reason I'm using it is for stuff I can't find here, like music and software.

[Aajj333]

Do I feel bad if someone illegally downloads an artists song? Nope! They make more than enough on just a tour alone! They are even still making millions on fair purchases, and also a devoted fan base. Same with movies.

[Uranus]

Do I feel bad if someone illegally downloads an artists song? Nope! They make more than enough on just a tour alone! They are even still making millions on fair purchases, and also a devoted fan base. Same with movies.

You make a fair point. And even if they illegally download the artists muse, they would probably still even go to the tour. But still illegally downloading media is not a good idea

[Stronk Serb]

A bunch of bands here made some of their new albums free, you can download them for free from their official website. Dubioza Kolektiv and SARS are among the first.

[Typhlosion]

Do I feel bad if someone illegally downloads an artists song? Nope! They make more than enough on just a tour alone! They are even still making millions on fair purchases, and also a devoted fan base. Same with movies.

Which is the reason why concerts are becoming more and more expensive, and how hard it is to get into the industry because less and less people buy records. You'd be surprised at the amount of artists who don't perform for lack of funds and have a day job.