Scotland should never give up.

[Paladino]

We are the first country in the world to REJECT our own independence. We were lied to by the English government and now the NO voters regret their decision(some of them). A poll has concluded that 52% of Scots would now vote YES, rather than NO, and who would blame them? Under the control of Westminster scotland will never be a better place, the 4 council areas in scotland that had more YES than NO; West Dunbartonshire, Glasgow City Council, North Lanarkshire and Dundee City Council. Would you be surprised if I told you that these 4 areas are the POOREST in Scotland? well, they are. People who have full time jobs are resorting to food banks because of how poorly they are paid(minimum wage) for a hard days work. They struggle to pay bills & put food on the table, this is disgusting. I believe the change we needed was to be able to handle our own affairs. Set our OWN wage bills and tackle our OWN poverty problems as England are doing NOTHING about it. Does David Cameron give a rats arse about young David, 11 years old from Dundee, who is lucky to have 1 proper meal a day?

Scotland's population is roughly 5 and a half million, a small country with a small population. Have a guess how many people in Scotland live in poverty? 820,000. That is 16% of the population. Imagine the whole of Glasgow and the whole of Dundee lived in poverty. The figure would be roughly the same. That is 2 cities worth of people starving every day. Can you understand why the people of these 4 areas as mentioned above would have voted yes?

I think the English government needs to get their shit together and follow up their "vow" that they so famously made and lied about. I am surprised that so many scottish people could have rejected independence, we would still be close allies with England & the rest of the UK, we would trade with them and we would prosper without them imo. The only way for us is independence and sadly 55% of our great wee country gave in to Westminster. The 45% that I am very proud to be part of, chose hope over fear, and I'm even getting teary reading this. It has broken my heart and our country. One day, we will get what we need/want and we will be free from them. I don't hate England or have anything against England, just the Government. I think we should be thinking in the best interests of Scotland.

What do you think?

[CosmicNoodle]

We are the first country in the world to REJECT our own independence.

The mass populous decided they wanted nit, so it happened, YAY DEMOCRACY! It's what people wanted, and it's happened, if you don't like that, better move to a dictatorship run by yourself.

We were lied to by the English government and now the NO voters regret their decision(some of them). A poll has concluded that 52% of Scots would now vote YES, rather than NO,

Well, hopefully they will get another chance to vote, if the stats have changed hat much, there should be a recount, your right.

and who would blame them?

Blame them for what?

Under the control of Westminster scotland will never be a better place,


All politicians are the same, you seem to think that just because a politician is Scottish he will care about Scotland, like fuck he will, face it, no matter what government you run under, there will be poverty, and social issues, it's not just Scotland that has these problems at the end of the day, so does the rest of the world, and to a much worse degree.

the 4 council areas in scotland that had more YES than NO;

Like I said, your right, there SHOULD be a recount, but you have to look further than the day of independence, you need to see all the problems will still exist, but Scotland will be on it's own.

West Dunbartonshire, Glasgow City Council, North Lanarkshire and Dundee City Council. Would you be surprised if I told you that these 4 areas are the POOREST in Scotland?

Honestly no, they ain't exactly areas with gold badges to there name, biut ever country or state has poor places, how is this any different?

well, they are. People who have full time jobs are resorting to food banks because of how poorly they are paid(minimum wage) for a hard days work.

A lot of people who are payed minimum wage get that wage because they do low skilled jobs, I think the problem there is with your education system, but then again it can't solely be on that, I do think minimum wage is FAR too low.


They struggle to pay bills & put food on the table, this is disgusting.

A lot of people do, at one point in my life I lived off beans on toast for 2 years because that's all we could afford, and then ran out of money for bread, so just ate beans. This problem exists in the rest of the UK as well. But I speak from a point of ignorance, I don't live in Scotland.

I believe the change we needed was to be able to handle our own affairs. Set our OWN wage bills and tackle our OWN poverty problems as England are doing NOTHING about it.

Your right, the Scottish wage should be higher!...why?....urmm...because we're Scottish? No, you guys have the same minimum wage as everyone else, you don't deserve special treatment, however, if you do gain independence you are free to change that, and I think you should.

Does David Cameron give a rats arse about young David, 11 years old from Dundee, who is lucky to have 1 proper meal a day?

What about Andrew from Devon? Thought of the rest of us, not trying to argue, but you seem to have forgotten that the same problems plague the rest of us.

Scotland's population is roughly 5 and a half million, a small country with a small population. Have a guess how many people in Scotland live in poverty? 820,000. That is 16% of the population.

I will agree that is discussing, but come on, you have healthcare, roads, electricity, cars, internet. You're still in the top 10% of the world (citation needed). But your right, that number is alarmingly high.

Imagine the whole of Glasgow and the whole of Dundee lived in poverty.

Again, what about the rest of us?

The figure would be roughly the same. That is 2 cities worth of people starving every day. Can you understand why the people of these 4 areas as mentioned above would have voted yes?

Did those people realise they will still be poor after independence?

I think the English government needs to get their shit together and follow up their "vow" that they so famously made and lied about. I am surprised that so many scottish people could have rejected independence,

Gonna be honest, you gus voted for it, you got what you (mostly) wanted, live with that fact, you live in a democracy, that what was wanted (at the time)

we would still be close allies with England & the rest of the UK, we would trade with them and we would prosper without them imo.

Your right, that north sea oil will last for hundreds of year to sustain Scottland. Realistically, once thats gone, you have no advantage (not that you have one now) over the rest of the world, what exactly makes you think you will prosper? What is so special about the Scottish people that they can do things in a way unconscionable to the rest of us that will make things better? Honestly, nothing.

The only way for us is independence and sadly 55% of our great wee country gave in to Westminster.

Gave in to? THAT'S WHAT THEY WANTED, THEY VOTED FOR IT. They wheren't beaten down at the vote stands, they where not bribed, they where not brainwashed or forced, it's what they wanted.

The 45% that I am very proud to be part of, chose hope over fear,

Sometimes people accuse me of playing the victim card, but if that's not I don't see what is. Hope over fear? What ARE you blithering about?

and I'm even getting teary reading this. It has broken my heart and our country.

Your far to caught up, crying because your country didn't get independence? Admittedly I've always thought of being a patriot and quite drone like and silly. So maybe I'm missing a part of it, I don't know how important it is to you, but that seems like your FAR to sensitive.

One day, we will get what we need/want and we will be free from them.

You lot GOT what you wanted! You voted for it! Your opinions may have changed, but you can't just get what you want and then bitch about it because you change your mind, that's like asking for cake, and sending it back with a complaint because they brought you cake.

I don't hate England or have anything against England, just the Government. I think we should be thinking in the best interests of Scotland.

Yeeee....fuck everyone else, Scottland's what important here. The government have bigger issues than a country of people that changed there minds when they didn't like that they wanted. Hopefully you will get another chance to vote soon. I really do think you should be able to vote again if the opinion has changed. BUT, what if it changes again? Are you going to simply become part of the UK again? You gonna' switch back and fourth at will? Can't happen, you made your choice, now you have to live with it.

What do you think?

That's what I think, one more vote, and that's it. Also I think you should pull your head out your arse and realise the rest of the world has problems, we have other things to deal with right now than a country that can't make up it's mind. To put it bluntly.

[Paladino]

I realise the rest of the world has problems, but I want what's best for my country and I am pretty sure everyone is the same. The point I am trying to make is that we would be better off as a society without the UK Government and its true. The Government lied to us to scare us into voting NO, and with some it worked. Hope over Fear, one day we will get our independence.

and Hope over fear means we hoped for a Yes vote for a better Scotland and the ones that voted no were driven by fear of independence by it. That is what the gov done, they made up lies and scare mongered to the point where Scottish people felt independence would be worse.

Use the 'edit' button. Do not double post. ~Typhlosion

[CosmicNoodle]

I realise the rest of the world has problems, but I want what's best for my country and I am pretty sure everyone is the same. The point I am trying to make is that we would be better off as a society without the UK Government and its true. The Government lied to us to scare us into voting NO, and with some it worked. Hope over Fear, one day we will get our independence.

OK, I'll entertain the idea, how is that true, please explain. And how exactly did they lie to you, what lie was it? You seem to think that the Scottish people are scared into voting no, and beaten down. No, they voted for it, it's what the wanted, live with it.

and Hope over fear means we hoped for a Yes vote for a better Scotland and the ones that voted no were driven by fear of independence by it. That is what the gov done, they made up lies and scare mongered to the point where Scottish people felt independence would be worse.

How would it be better? Please explain. Again, what lies and what scare mongering? I followed it closely and I didn't see that, but I may have missed it or forgotten, please explain.

And I'd like to say for the second time, even an independent Scottish government would be just as crap, everyone at some point thought that there type of government would change the world, and it never does. It will be the the same.

[Paladino]

OK, I'll entertain the idea, how is that true, please explain. And how exactly did they lie to you, what lie was it? You seem to think that the Scottish people are scared into voting no, and beaten down. No, they voted for it, it's what the wanted, live with it.



How would it be better? Please explain. Again, what lies and what scare mongering? I followed it closely and I didn't see that, but I may have missed it or forgotten, please explain.

And I'd like to say for the second time, even an independent Scottish government would be just as crap, everyone at some point thought that there type of government would change the world, and it never does. It will be the the same.

They told us if we voted no, there would be dramatic change and our government would be given more powers. The day after the referendum, they told us we would get more powers once England has more.

[CosmicNoodle]

They told us if we voted no, there would be dramatic change and our government would be given more powers. The day after the referendum, they told us we would get more powers once England has more.

Ahh I see, well, the second was a lie, but the fist wasn't. How the hell could you be given independence and not let the government have more power? Kind of needed. And you wanted them to have more power, correct? To change wages, combat various other issues ect ect. How could they do any of that WITHOUT more power?

[phuckphace]

WELP. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_National_Liberation_Army)

make it happen folks.

[UnknownError]

I did vote yes but overall I don't care that much tbh.

[Paladino]

I did vote yes but overall I don't care that much tbh.

I was loving the idea of how good it would of felt to wake up that Friday morning to find out we were free & i am a rangers fan too lol! It wasn't really a victory for the NO campaign cause everything is just the shitty same as it was before lol.

[SethfromMI]

We are the first country in the world to REJECT our own independence. We were lied to by the English government and now the NO voters regret their decision(some of them). A poll has concluded that 52% of Scots would now vote YES, rather than NO, and who would blame them? Under the control of Westminster scotland will never be a better place, the 4 council areas in scotland that had more YES than NO; West Dunbartonshire, Glasgow City Council, North Lanarkshire and Dundee City Council. Would you be surprised if I told you that these 4 areas are the POOREST in Scotland? well, they are. People who have full time jobs are resorting to food banks because of how poorly they are paid(minimum wage) for a hard days work. They struggle to pay bills & put food on the table, this is disgusting. I believe the change we needed was to be able to handle our own affairs. Set our OWN wage bills and tackle our OWN poverty problems as England are doing NOTHING about it. Does David Cameron give a rats arse about young David, 11 years old from Dundee, who is lucky to have 1 proper meal a day?

Scotland's population is roughly 5 and a half million, a small country with a small population. Have a guess how many people in Scotland live in poverty? 820,000. That is 16% of the population. Imagine the whole of Glasgow and the whole of Dundee lived in poverty. The figure would be roughly the same. That is 2 cities worth of people starving every day. Can you understand why the people of these 4 areas as mentioned above would have voted yes?

I think the English government needs to get their shit together and follow up their "vow" that they so famously made and lied about. I am surprised that so many scottish people could have rejected independence, we would still be close allies with England & the rest of the UK, we would trade with them and we would prosper without them imo. The only way for us is independence and sadly 55% of our great wee country gave in to Westminster. The 45% that I am very proud to be part of, chose hope over fear, and I'm even getting teary reading this. It has broken my heart and our country. One day, we will get what we need/want and we will be free from them. I don't hate England or have anything against England, just the Government. I think we should be thinking in the best interests of Scotland.

What do you think?

well I was about to say I support you and agree Scotland should be free. but when you said fuck the rest of the world you lost all of the support I was going to give you. Scotland is not the center of the universe

[Miserabilia]

I... I don't know/care (yet!).

I'm genuinly curious; why exactly should they be independent?

[Typhlosion]

Woooow whoa wow you're disagreeing with democracy because the the majority of people don't agree with you. Yeah. And then blame it on the Government. Just because Aécio lost 48-52% on Brazilian presidency we don't get butthurt and demand another bout of elections.

Scotland's population is roughly 5 and a half million, a small country with a small population. Have a guess how many people in Scotland live in poverty? 820,000. That is 16% of the population. Imagine the whole of Glasgow and the whole of Dundee lived in poverty. The figure would be roughly the same. That is 2 cities worth of people starving every day. Can you understand why the people of these 4 areas as mentioned above would have voted yes?

Relative poverty. That's still over 100 pounds per week. Anything under 600 pounds qualifies. That's 2.4 thousand reais, or over 3 times our minimum wage. Adjust that for PPP it's 423 dollars in Brazil vs 882 dollars in Scotland. Oh, oh, guess what? You're whining that 16% are under 882 USD PPP while 60% of Brazil are under 432 USD PPP.

Cry more.

[Vlerchan]

If anyone read the British papers in the two weeks coming up to the referendum they would have seen the scaremongering (etc.) that Gbow is on about.

Perhaps the most arresting fact about the Scottish referendum is this: that there is no newspaper – local, regional or national, English or Scottish – that supports independence except the Sunday Herald. The Scots who will vote yes have been almost without representation in the media.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/16/media-shafted-people-scotland-journalists

You're whining that 16% are under 882 USD PPP while 60% of Brazil are under 432 USD PPP.
Scotland GDP (PPP) per capita is 3 times that of Brazils. You'd expect Brazil to be a lot worse off.

I don't think Brazil being worse off invalidates his complaints in any way at that.

---

Can I also ask you though where you got the figures for the poverty line corrected to PPP? Might come in useful in the future.

[Typhlosion]

Scotland GDP (PPP) per capita is 3 times that of Brazils. You'd expect Brazil to be a lot worse off.

I don't think Brazil being worse off invalidates his complaints in any way at that.

Of course. I'm just pointing out that he's making a too big fuss out of it stressing Scotland's 16% of population at relative poverty and treating the problem like it's the only one in the world.

Can I also ask you though where you got the figures for the poverty line corrected to PPP? Might come in useful in the future.
I'm sorry, but my answer won't be most useful.

I first got the scottish poverty line @ http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/one-million-are-now-living-below-the-poverty-line.24643715 (£374*.4*4/mo) and the Brazil's minimum wage (not our national poverty line) @ http://portal.mte.gov.br/sal_min/ . Then, I adjusted the values to PPP at http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-17543356

[phuckphace]

I don't think Brazil being worse off invalidates his complaints in any way at that.

this. I've noticed every time there's an e-discussion anywhere about poverty in the West, Brazil always shows up to remind us that somehow because favelas exist we aren't allowed to address or even acknowledge the social problems in our own countries.

had this same discussion with my Georgian friend, who is convinced that I'm rich because I make $400 a week and I shouldn't complain about not making more. three words: COST OF LIVING. yes I know, I could be king of the favela in Belo Horizonte with 400 dollars a week, but my job isn't portable and doesn't fit in a suitcase, so...?

[Typhlosion]

this. I've noticed every time there's an e-discussion anywhere about poverty in the West, Brazil always shows up to remind us that somehow because favelas exist we aren't allowed to address or even acknowledge the social problems in our own countries.
I apologize for saying it like that, and honestly looking at it twice I do feel like a dumbass. I started talking about election results and derailed a bit. I do feel, however, that using relative poverty doesn't drive too much of a point when you consider different standards of living and their minimums.

[Paladino]

Of course. I'm just pointing out that he's making a too big fuss out of it stressing Scotland's 16% of population at relative poverty and treating the problem like it's the only one in the world.


I'm sorry, but my answer won't be most useful.

I first got the scottish poverty line @ http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/one-million-are-now-living-below-the-poverty-line.24643715 (£374*.4*4/mo) and the Brazil's minimum wage (not our national poverty line) @ http://portal.mte.gov.br/sal_min/ . Then, I adjusted the values to PPP at http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-17543356

Not really making a big fuss about it mate, I just want the best for Scotland and I strongly believe in it. I understand Brazil has big problems too, but wasn't it your brazillian government spending $15bn on the World Cup when it could have been used for much better purposes considering the poverty in Brazil. The point I am making is I don't want the UK Government to have the majority of power over Scotland.

I'd also like to add how biased the BBC were, the "British Broadcasting Corporation". I could think of many things it is an abbreviation for!! There was a several live debates and programmes with audiences about the referendum. On one of the nights, I'm not sure which one, the BBC were asking people in the audience what they were voting and a lot of the people that said they were voting yes were told to say they were voting NO or they were Undecided, as there were "too many" yes voters already in the room, in their eyes! Every paper, Every news channel was AGAINST it and they made it clear they were against it. Showing only "PROS" of staying in the UK, and cons of being out of it. Now, look at this statistic. 71% of 16-17 year olds voted YES, undoubtedly the people from 16-30 would be effected the most by this vote in the long run? Now here is another interesting statistic. 73% of 65+ voted NO. The people it will effect the least. Over 65's are retired, most of their time spent is watching Day time TV, listening to radio & reading papers, which because we are run by the British Government, are VERY BIASED.

The only coverage the YES Campaign got was short TV/Radio Interviews, or on Social Media. Where the younger generation are most likely to be.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/20/scottish-independence-lord-ashcroft-poll

well I was about to say I support you and agree Scotland should be free. but when you said fuck the rest of the world you lost all of the support I was going to give you. Scotland is not the center of the universe

Where did I say fuck the rest of the world?

Edit: Forgot your not supposed to double post.

No worries. ~Elysium

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/77652000/jpg/_77652284_pa.jpg - had to add this image in, it speaks a thousand words

[tovaris]

Scotlan deserves independance, and should get it!
I say why not do it again is ay 4 years...
Every nation should have the right to call the land they have ocupird for centuries they own country.

[normalperson]

whoa whoa whoa wait just a minute buster brown:

1.We are the first country in the world to REJECT our own independence.
do some research Mack, first of all QUEBEC did in 1980 with only 40% in favor of independence.

2.We were lied to by the English government and now the NO voters regret their decision(some of them).
first of all i am not a support of the money drainer that is royalty.
second, what did they promise, it sure wasn't a big thing because i didn't hear about it.
and lastly even if they did lie boo hoo governments do that!!!

3.A poll has concluded that 52% of Scots would now vote YES, rather than NO, and who would blame them?
A poll before the vote stated that 55% were going to vote yes in the referendum, how did that turn out hmm? (the voters should of thought more about it)

4.Under the control of Westminster scotland will never be a better place, the 4 council areas in scotland that had more YES than NO; West Dunbartonshire, Glasgow City Council, North Lanarkshire and Dundee City Council. Would you be surprised if I told you that these 4 areas are the POOREST in Scotland? well, they are. People who have full time jobs are resorting to food banks because of how poorly they are paid(minimum wage) for a hard days work. They struggle to pay bills & put food on the table, this is disgusting. I believe the change we needed was to be able to handle our own affairs. Set our OWN wage bills and tackle our OWN poverty problems as England are doing NOTHING about it. Does David Cameron give a rats arse about young David, 11 years old from Dundee, who is lucky to have 1 proper meal a day?

Scotland's population is roughly 5 and a half million, a small country with a small population. Have a guess how many people in Scotland live in poverty? 820,000. That is 16% of the population. Imagine the whole of Glasgow and the whole of Dundee lived in poverty. The figure would be roughly the same. That is 2 cities worth of people starving every day. Can you understand why the people of these 4 areas as mentioned above would have voted yes?
Have you ever been to the USA? don't complain it's just useless gum flapping that proves that you are really ignorant.

5. I am surprised that so many scottish people could have rejected independence, we would still be close allies with England & the rest of the UK, we would trade with them and we would prosper without them imo.
do you have any idea how ridiculous you sound!. do you realize how greedy Britain is!. do you realize anything at all about the complexity's of governments!. do you know anything about modern economics!. do you see the stupidity in those words!. NO MORE COMMENT.

6. The 45% that I am very proud to be part of, chose hope over fear, and I'm even getting teary reading this. It has broken my heart and our country. One day, we will get what we need/want and we will be free from them. I don't hate England or have anything against England, just the Government. I think we should be thinking in the best interests of Scotland.
you are truly naive aren't you? words cannot describe the idiocy i am seeing over nothing i am glad to say i am done.

7. What do you think?
i think it is idiocy written by a naive, ignorant fool.


i may sound angry but i am not, do not take anything i have wrote to heart for i have Aspergers (seriously look it up) and you will understand... no hard feelings. :)

[Paladino]

I understand what aspergers is because my friend has it. Your making it look as if I'm stupid when your the one that's at the other side of the world & don't see the problems we have here because no news station will show the things that should have pushed an independence vote as much as they were with the No. Also you don't seem very pleasent at all, your an outsider and probably have never even came to this country so you cant dare & say i'm being naive or ignorant. You don't understand how important that vote was for the Scottish people & thats why it seems to me like you are being quite ignorant about the matter. It is so clear we would trade with the UK if we went independent because it would be the closest country to us & they need trade with Scotland as well as we need it with them.

& to maticek, I believe in the next 10 years we will see another referendum after the English government fall back on their "vow", they were always naturally going to do that & that is basically because right before the vote, there arses were flapping, they knew it was a huge possibility we would vote Yes, when before it never seemed like it would ever ever happen, so they lied to keep the votes & think it's acceptable to go back to being cunts.