Gender Issues

[Lovelife090994]

Why are women more associated with cleanliness, sympathy, and have whole markets for plethora of perfumes, and seen as epitomes of gentleness yet men are seen as unfeeling, gruff, overbearing, smelly, and men's products smell like musk? Is this stuff cultural or mental or both? Is there a reason why certain things are marketed solely for either gender and when one bridges the genders they get shot-down or simply ignored like the don't exist?

Any ideas?

Few care if women are masculine and maybe that's because men have more authority and people love strong women. But when a man is feminine by just a hair people lose their minds. And say "femininity is bad for men." Wait? So now emulating women is bad when they are seen as emotionally more open and kinder, and prettier of the two genders, and generally cleaner?

I'll never get any of it no matter how masculine or feminine of a guy I am. I am kind of neutral (under my mother's roof) but I know I'd be one to wear the make-up, perfume, cute clothes, look punk-goth, and would be the kind of guy/girl-tomboyish type but as a male... (okay that made no sense.)

In terms of attraction this stuff makes sense since we all like different things but it's not okay to dictate others on their lives in my opinion without consent.

I think the only gender-norm I like is men being gentlemen and women being ladies. It should be common sense to act appropriate and with kindness to others. But that's another talk...

I have a poll at the top as a side-relation. What are you biologically and how do you identify yourself personality-wise (not necessarily by gender and sex).

[CosmicNoodle]

I't just a stigma left over from ye old days, it's slowly disapaiting, and good ridance to it. As to how the stigma came across in the first place? Not a clue, not a single clue.

[Lovelife090994]

I't just a stigma left over from ye old days, it's slowly disapaiting, and good ridance to it. As to how the stigma came across in the first place? Not a clue, not a single clue.

I've not a clue either. Hunter/gatherer or male and female doesn't equal to gender boundaries... Well, actually maybe the reason why names are gendered. For clear distinctions and self-roles of individuality that don't interfere with society operating functionally? Humans do tend to think in black and white...

[CosmicNoodle]

I've not a clue either. Hunter/gatherer or male and female doesn't equal to gender boundaries... Well, actually maybe the reason why names are gendered. For clear distinctions and self-roles of individuality that don't interfere with society operating functionally? Humans do tend to think in black and white...

Wwell, I suppose in the old days men would be sent out to hunt, likey because men are naturally taller and so on and so forth. Meaning the women where left at base to care for people and so on.

I really don't like gender roles, I much prefer it when people can be whatever they want, masculin or feminin (Words I hope will have no place in the future). I'm glad the stigmas are dieing

[Living For Love]

I think the main thing in this issue is how people love to link two completely different ideas that aren't related to each other and then proceed to draw incorrect conclusions. I'm going to give you an example:

It's common knowledge that, during puberty, boys tend to develop more muscle tissue while girls tend to develop more fat tissue. This is a fact, it happens, it's scientifically proven, and you can't deny it. Now, because of this, people started to make roles for men and roles for women, thousands of years ago. Basically, they thought: "Well, because men have more muscle and strength, they should be the ones to hunt animals, and kill them, for instance, while women, as they aren't so powerful, should stay at home and do other chores that don't require so much physical effort." At first glance, this idea makes sense, right? The thing is, people go crazy if men aren't strong enough (and start questioning their masculinity) and if women decide to do chores that actually require a lot of physical effort. You see, it's not the fact that men and women have different tasks, it's when they decide to change their roles in the society. That's what it isn't accepted.

And, obviously, nowadays, people have taken this to a whole new level. Consider this chain reaction: men have more muscle than women -> men are physically stronger than women -> men are responsible to execute task that require a lot of effort, such as lifting weights, for instance -> because they are always doing tasks that require a lot of physical effort, they tend to get smelly and dirty -> because they tend to get dirty, it's better for them to wear dark-coloured clothes, because they disguise dirt better -> men should wear dark clothes and therefore, colours such as blue and black are associated with men -> a men should choose a black mobile phone over a white mobile phone when buying a new mobile phone. See where this is leading? We started with "men have more muscle than women", and now we're talking about colours and mobile phones. It's just that this happened to me last Sunday, I was buying a new mobile phone and someone told me to choose the black one over the white one because, apparently, white is for girls.

And there are loads and loads of more examples like this one. It's intrinsic to the human nature to associate things with other things, but sometimes, those associations are not correct.

And how do you solve this issue? Well, you can't, really, these ideas are already too intrinsically connected to people's minds. It's like racism or homophobia, for instance, you can change laws and say "It's a crime to discriminate a black person.", but we see racism everyday, right? You can change men-made laws, but you can't change people's minds, can you? I believe one of the greatest tools to fight this issue is education, by educating people, when they're young, to accept different customs and different ways of being and living, and as older generations pass away, future generations will grow more tolerant and respectful.

[Lovelife090994]

I think the main thing in this issue is how people love to link two completely different ideas that aren't related to each other and then proceed to draw incorrect conclusions. I'm going to give you an example:

It's common knowledge that, during puberty, boys tend to develop more muscle tissue while girls tend to develop more fat tissue. This is a fact, it happens, it's scientifically proven, and you can't deny it. Now, because of this, people started to make roles for men and roles for women, thousands of years ago. Basically, they thought: "Well, because men have more muscle and strength, they should be the ones to hunt animals, and kill them, for instance, while women, as they aren't so powerful, should stay at home and do other chores that don't require so much physical effort." At first glance, this idea makes sense, right? The thing is, people go crazy if men aren't strong enough (and start questioning their masculinity) and if women decide to do chores that actually require a lot of physical effort. You see, it's not the fact that men and women have different tasks, it's when they decide to change their roles in the society. That's what it isn't accepted.

And, obviously, nowadays, people have taken this to a whole new level. Consider this chain reaction: men have more muscle than women -> men are physically stronger than women -> men are responsible to execute task that require a lot of effort, such as lifting weights, for instance -> because they are always doing tasks that require a lot of physical effort, they tend to get smelly and dirty -> because they tend to get dirty, it's better for them to wear dark-coloured clothes, because they disguise dirt better -> men should wear dark clothes and therefore, colours such as blue and black are associated with men -> a men should choose a black mobile phone over a white mobile phone when buying a new mobile phone. See where this is leading? We started with "men have more muscle than women", and now we're talking about colours and mobile phones. It's just that this happened to me last Sunday, I was buying a new mobile phone and someone told me to choose the black one over the white one because, apparently, white is for girls.

And there are loads and loads of more examples like this one. It's intrinsic to the human nature to associate things with other things, but sometimes, those associations are not correct.

And how do you solve this issue? Well, you can't, really, these ideas are already too intrinsically connected to people's minds. It's like racism or homophobia, for instance, you can change laws and say "It's a crime to discriminate a black person.", but we see racism everyday, right? You can change men-made laws, but you can't change people's minds, can you? I believe one of the greatest tools to fight this issue is education, by educating people, when they're young, to accept different customs and different ways of being and living, and as older generations pass away, future generations will grow more tolerant and respectful.

This is a whole SAT test plus a college course. You're right. One things spills into another but leads to minds. And you cannot change how someone thinks no matter what the laws say (technically there are no laws in the civilized world for men to be men and women to be women.) I would love a white phone but white dirties easily.

[Body odah Man]

Nice thread. Personally I consider myself more as an emotional male with bad hygiene but I don't rlly like the rough things you're supposed to like as a male. Thus why I associate myself as more of a mix.

[Karkat]

A lot of why men aren't supposed to 'act like women' is because women are seen as the weaker sex- we're allowed to exist in perpetual submission, but men are supposed to be rather alpha.

Which in turn, leads to guys who are douchebags and wifebeaters getting the ladies, and so on. The female sex and gender is used as an insult.

As to why? Apparently we haven't made the full leap from "primitive survival mode" to "enlightened society". Go figure.

[Lovelife090994]

A lot of why men aren't supposed to 'act like women' is because women are seen as the weaker sex- we're allowed to exist in perpetual submission, but men are supposed to be rather alpha.

Which in turn, leads to guys who are douchebags and wifebeaters getting the ladies, and so on. The female sex and gender is used as an insult.

As to why? Apparently we haven't made the full leap from "primitive survival mode" to "enlightened society". Go figure.

We're still every man for himself when things go awry. As if that helps anything.

[James Dean]

I take both masculine and feminine features from being a man. I'm bisexual/gay, but I don't want to be a woman. I love being a man, not having to worry about makeup, or flashy clothes, or anything of that sort. However, I do have feminine traits though, for example I'm into dance and ballet, so.

[Descene]

Gender roles, how I despise thee. They are a reason why I'm as enthusiastic as I am with defying them. Also because my existence defies them.

It doesn't make any sense to me. I would say it isn't yet fully acceptable for women to defy their gender roles, though they've been given much more wiggle room in modern society. But I can't deny that it seems more difficult to be a man who defies gender stereotypes than a woman. How I've always described it as an outsider looking in is that men have this unspoken man club with rules of how to be a man and when these rules are broken, they take your imaginary man card and cut it in half. Maybe with a little emotional abuse and a black eye thrown in as well. Then you are nothing. You throw like a girl, you're a sissy, you're a pussy. Women are lesser, so when you do things associated with femininity, you are voluntarily demoting yourself. When women do a selection of traditionally masculine things (but not too many of course), they are applauded for reaching for the stars. Can someone take me to the far away planet of an advanced alien society that's already gotten passed this inequality among humans stuff?

[Lovelife090994]

Gender roles, how I despise thee. They are a reason why I'm as enthusiastic as I am with defying them. Also because my existence defies them.

It doesn't make any sense to me. I would say it isn't yet fully acceptable for women to defy their gender roles, though they've been given much more wiggle room in modern society. But I can't deny that it seems more difficult to be a man who defies gender stereotypes than a woman. How I've always described it as an outsider looking in is that men have this unspoken man club with rules of how to be a man and when these rules are broken, they take your imaginary man card and cut it in half. Maybe with a little emotional abuse and a black eye thrown in as well. Then you are nothing. You throw like a girl, you're a sissy, you're a pussy. Women are lesser, so when you do things associated with femininity, you are voluntarily demoting yourself. When women do a selection of traditionally masculine things (but not too many of course), they are applauded for reaching for the stars. Can someone take me to the far away planet of an advanced alien society that's already gotten passed this inequality among humans stuff?

This is why aliens won't visit us. We still argue over skin color for God's Sake and gender roles!

[vboy]

I may be gay but im not a steryotype

[CuteGuy889]

I am def feminine (but a straight guy). I am the sensitive emotional type and not into rough games and stuff...From my kid days I was stick skinny, looked cute and girlish and has played girl/fairy roles in school dramas and dances too..........After puberty too when I recntly put on some weight the chub straight away filled my butt out, giving me a cute "bubble butt". A bit of tummy chub changed my 6 pack to a soft little girly belly and filled my face out making my features softer....I too think form many comments I got the girls find these cute....esp my GF who says I am soft and cuddly.