Society of victims.

[thatcountrykid]

I've really been seeing it a lot lately and I think we are creatin a society of victims. People need to stop complaining and feeling sorry for themselves. People, especially in first world countries, don't know how good they have it. people get offended so easy and think that coming up with stupid little laws now. Like heard to say some state or something made it law that kids in school cannot be called boys or girls so as not to offend the transgender community. Holy shit! Like really?

People really just need to grow up and quit being so sensitive.

[TheN3rdyOutcast]

Confused about whether to agree or think up a decent rebuttal. Hmmm....

With things like this, there's always a line to be drawn, (or at least a separation of what's unacceptable, what's acceptable, and what's up for consideration). Not everything is just people being too touchy, (or maybe it is, but there are things that almost everyone agrees is unacceptable: heavy use of racial slurs, offensive symbols such as the swastika, etc...).

[Karkat]

Confused about whether to agree or think up a decent rebuttal. Hmmm....

With things like this, there's always a line to be drawn, (or at least a separation of what's unacceptable, what's acceptable, and what's up for consideration). Not everything is just people being too touchy, (or maybe it is, but there are things that almost everyone agrees is unacceptable: heavy use of racial slurs, offensive symbols such as the swastika, etc...).

Agreed.

I feel like a *LOT* of "political correctness" is bullshit just for the fact that it's IMPOSSIBLE TO KEEP UP WITH.

And then everyone starts playing "check ur privilege" and all. Social justice warriors are created. Femnazis are created. Feminists who are not nazis get offended by the word "femnazi", and try to defend themselves because they are missing the point, thus actually making feminism look WORSE. And so on.

But there is a line. There are definitely certain things that aren't acceptable.

[Babs]

It's not always people being sensitive, and it many situations it's ignorant to say people are just too sensitive. I get called "too sensitive" when I'm mildly offended at blatantly homophobic or sexist jokes, which, as a gay female, isn't the least bit funny. I don't feel sorry for myself during these moments nor do I victimize myself; I just want to be treated with respect.
However there is a line to be drawn at some point. I think it's too far to be allowed to call kids either boys or girls (although I'm not transgender so I can't speak for the community) so instead of that, why not be trans-inclusive and if someone prefers to be called a boy or girl, or both or neither for that matter, call them their preferred gender?

[James Dean]

I do agree that we all need to grow some sort of thick skin and take responsibility for our own life decisions and ventures. However, I have to say that there still should be some sort of system in which we do have support should we feel our personal rights are violated.

I appreciate your stance and opinion, but that's why myself living as an American in the United States, we are able to be such a level headed society. We have zero tolerance against social oppression. As long as someone isn't hurting anyone, they should be treated with respect. Those who are different races, sexual orientations, gender identities, creeds etc. They shouldn't be thrown under the rug because they are different.

[Vlerchan]

If someone wants to move this to ROTW that's cool. I'd imagine it's heading that way.

I've really been seeing it a lot lately and I think we are creatin a society of victims.
I think it's more likely that marginalised groups are becoming concious of the fact that they're marginalised.

And/or it becoming more socially acceptable to criticise the social institutions, attitudes, norms, etc. that maintain your marginalisation.

People, especially in first world countries, don't know how good they have it.
I don't see how "having it good" means you shouldn't complain when you're being unfairly discriminated against.

Especially when that discrimination is institutionalised.

people get offended so easy and think that coming up with stupid little laws now.
I agree that trying to push a lot of this stuff through laws is just counter-productive.

I also don't tend to agree with a lot of the political-correctness that SJWs froth at the mouth with.

---

I appreciate your stance and opinion, but that's why myself living as an American in the United States, we are able to be such a level headed society. We have zero tolerance against social oppression.

Is this something you've personally picked up on, or did you happen across this idea during your engagement with the American education system?

[CosmicNoodle]

Agreed.

I feel like a *LOT* of "political correctness" is bullshit just for the fact that it's IMPOSSIBLE TO KEEP UP WITH.

And then everyone starts playing "check ur privilege" and all. Social justice warriors are created. Femnazis are created. Feminists who are not nazis get offended by the word "femnazi", and try to defend themselves because they are missing the point, thus actually making feminism look WORSE. And so on.

Don't even get me started on Feminism, a good cause RUINED by idiots who never grew put of the " Giorld are better than boys, not boys are better than girls" mentality of the playground, it really does make me angry. Anyhoo, off topic

But there is a line. There are definitely certain things that aren't acceptable.

I agree to some extent, there needs to be a lone, but you can't just condemned everyone, because there really are genium victims of society who have genuon troubles dealing with what's happened. And your not really one to talk dude, as soon as I say one bad word about America you throw a pissy fit and get all defensive.

[ImCoolBeans]

I think this might be better off in ROTW.

The White Padded Room :arrow: Ramblings of the Wise

I do agree that the world has become a place where you have to be too politically correct. However there is a difference between being discriminative and being a little rash or bold. Like others have said, there is a line, and the line shouldn't be crossed. Too bad the line is a grey area.

[phuckphace]

progressive politics depends on exploitation of victimhood for its own ends. first it was (at least ostensibly) the working class. then after that cow got milked to death, focus shifted to civil rights for blacks, followed by homosexuals, followed by transgender rights and most recently, pedophiles. each time the Left runs out of political steam, they have to go searching for a different victim group to prop up, and each time the favored group gets tinier and more irrelevant. I presume after they get bored of "pedophiles are just like you and me" it'll be either cannibal-rapists or coprophiliacs (um excuse me bigot, but my public restroom/restaurant is a perfectly legitimate business protected by the 69th Amendment and if you don't like it then don't eat here!)

[Vlerchan]

progressive politics depends on exploitation of victimhood for its own ends.
Is there something actually wrong with the liberation of marginalised groups?

[Karkat]

I agree to some extent, there needs to be a lone, but you can't just condemned everyone, because there really are genium victims of society who have genuon troubles dealing with what's happened. And your not really one to talk dude, as soon as I say one bad word about America you throw a pissy fit and get all defensive.

Most of us are, at one point. To sum it up with a cliché, "life isn't fair". There's a difference between acknowledging that there is suffering and pain, and becoming so absorbed in it that you start acting like

Well, Tumblr. Tumblr is a perfect example, in my opinion, of why there's a point people need to let it the fuck go. The internet is turning into a "safe haven" (if you can call it that) for neurotic, and/or somewhat sociopathic (see: 4chan) teenagers, and if any modern thing is going to turn a bunch of people into serial killers, it's going to come between watching Dexter (this is mildly sarcastic), and the manically self-centered attitude that internet culture promotes...

What I'm trying to say is that I have psychotic episodes of rage, and these people scare me with the amount of unbridled crazy (see: neurotic, aggressive, and borderline psychotic) they possess. I think most of these "victims" are honestly less innocent than you think. Some even bring their own persecution on themselves- if you act like a little bitch every time someone has a reasonable, non-threatening question about you, you probably deserve the backlash you get.

Now see, there are PLENTY of legitimate victims, but none of them are on Tumblr. (This is an exaggeration. Statistically, there are victims of real injustice on Tumblr. They are the minority.)

However, a lot of this political correctness BULLSHIT teaches people to pull their victim card every time something gets hard or they don't like something, and it's making a society where everyone walks on their tiptoes and nobody grows up. Everyone is perpetually in a state of emotional development akin to a teenage girl crackhead in the foster system.

Because society doesn't teach people how to heal from trauma, only how to profit from it.

-

That's because as stupid as America is, I rather like my country. Most people who attack America also tend to imply blame on every soul who resides there, and that's just ridiculous. I can make quips about America, because it's obvious that I'm either being sarcastic (ding ding ding), or that I'm senile to begin with.

I really do think most Americans have terrible taste in fast food promotional items, popular music, and clothing though.

[CosmicNoodle]

Most of us are, at one point. To sum it up with a cliché, "life isn't fair". There's a difference between acknowledging that there is suffering and pain, and becoming so absorbed in it that you start acting like

Well, Tumblr. Tumblr is a perfect example, in my opinion, of why there's a point people need to let it the fuck go. The internet is turning into a "safe haven" (if you can call it that) for neurotic, and/or somewhat sociopathic (see: 4chan) teenagers, and if any modern thing is going to turn a bunch of people into serial killers, it's going to come between watching Dexter (this is mildly sarcastic), and the manically self-centered attitude that internet culture promotes...

What I'm trying to say is that I have psychotic episodes of rage, and these people scare me with the amount of unbridled crazy (see: neurotic, aggressive, and borderline psychotic) they possess. I think most of these "victims" are honestly less innocent than you think. Some even bring their own persecution on themselves- if you act like a little bitch every time someone has a reasonable, non-threatening question about you, you probably deserve the backlash you get.

Now see, there are PLENTY of legitimate victims, but none of them are on Tumblr. (This is an exaggeration. Statistically, there are victims of real injustice on Tumblr. They are the minority.)

However, a lot of this political correctness BULLSHIT teaches people to pull their victim card every time something gets hard or they don't like something, and it's making a society where everyone walks on their tiptoes and nobody grows up. Everyone is perpetually in a state of emotional development akin to a teenage girl crackhead in the foster system.

Because society doesn't teach people how to heal from trauma, only how to profit from it.

-

That's because as stupid as America is, I rather like my country. Most people who attack America also tend to imply blame on every soul who resides there, and that's just ridiculous. I can make quips about America, because it's obvious that I'm either being sarcastic (ding ding ding), or that I'm senile to begin with.

I really do think most Americans have terrible taste in fast food promotional items, popular music, and clothing though.

I agree with Ren, that's about as much as I can be bothered to say at this point in time

[Miserabilia]

I heard there are schools where kids now must be adressed as "rainbow ponies" or something like that, I don't remember, because "boys and girls" would be offensive to possibly trans kids.

Like.
Really?

Before i go on I have completely understanding for trans people and being offended by things such as transphobia, to the extent it actualy exists.

however.
It's gotten ridiculous.
Like... Really?
"boys and girls" is offensive?
To who, that 1% that calls themselves agender or genderfluid?
Why would it offend them?
It's only logical to speak to the majority of people.
It's lingualicaly logical.
As for actual trans people, they are either born male or female and then identiy as a girl or a boy; why would "boys and girls" offend them?

So, in that sense, I aggree with you OP.
However,
in alot of cases people really are victims.
It's just that through all the bs, it's hard to filter out people that really need support.

[Vlerchan]

I think most of these "victims" are honestly less innocent than you think.
I don't tend to care about the individual cases. If you read over my posts you'll never see me argue that individuals are being wronged - it's always groups.

I think that when you can see that people belonging to certain groups are statistically (at a significant level) more likely to be met with some sort of negative (esp. when it's impacts at an economic level) then it's time to at least inquire into the causes. Reading into the individual cases is actually counter-productive.

Reading the above comments I'll add that transgender people are one of these groups that tend to encounter disproportionately high amounts of negatives (http://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/wp-content/uploads/AFSP-Williams-Suicide-Report-Final.pdf) - and that's why I make a point of going on the attack when people say they're "just complaining" or "feeling sorry for themselves" because it seems obvious from just looking into the macrodata that these people are oppressed (in that their life-outcomes are significantly reduced as a result of some normalised societal function).

Don't even get me started on Feminism, a good cause RUINED by idiots who never grew put of the " Giorld are better than boys, not boys are better than girls" mentality of the playground, it really does make me angry. Anyhoo, off topic.
I think it's worse that people think that such people actually make up a significant portion of the feminist movement.

[CosmicNoodle]

I think it's worse that people think that such people actually make up a significant portion of the feminist movement.


I can only speak from experiance, but 905 of the feminists I meet on the internet are like that, but not the IRL ones, I knw 4 IRL feminists and only 1 of them is a feminazi

[Babs]

I can only speak from experiance, but 905 of the feminists I meet on the internet are like that, but not the IRL ones, I knw 4 IRL feminists and only 1 of them is a feminazi

That might be because many of the "feminazis" people meet on the internet are trolls.

[CosmicNoodle]

That might be because many of the "feminazis" people meet on the internet are trolls.

Ohh I hope so, I reeealllyyy do, or what I pray is the truth, is that normal feminists dont see the need to take to tumblr in a poorly argued, badly thought out, sexists, female supremisist, idiotic sea of estrogen and rage. Normal feminists don't see the need to do that. They actually do something useful with there time. Rather than make inane, pointless, mindless , nonesensical , thick headed, trivial, witless arguments on Tumblr, to people who will simply sit back and laugh at them with bemused joy.

That's what I really hope.

[DeadEyes]

People need to stop complaining and feeling sorry for themselves. People, especially in first world countries, don't know how good they have it.
People really just need to grow up and quit being so sensitive.

People are indeed acting like spoiled cry babies.

[Babs]

Ohh I hope so, I reeealllyyy do, or what I pray is the truth, is that normal feminists dont see the need to take to tumblr in a poorly argued, badly thought out, sexists, female supremisist, idiotic sea of estrogen and rage. Normal feminists don't see the need to do that. They actually do something useful with there time. Rather than make inane, pointless, mindless , nonesensical , thick headed, trivial, witless arguments on Tumblr, to people who will simply sit back and laugh at them with bemused joy.

That's what I really hope.

Yeah, most people who are unreasonable about feminism are uneducated, hateful or trolls. My guess 7/10 of those three options are trolls. Honestly, more people need to think about those options before deciding, "yup, this is as legit as feminism gets."

[Karkat]

I don't tend to care about the individual cases. If you read over my posts you'll never see me argue that individuals are being wronged - it's always groups.

I think that when you can see that people belonging to certain groups are statistically (at a significant level) more likely to be met with some sort of negative (esp. when it's impacts at an economic level) then it's time to at least inquire into the causes. Reading into the individual cases is actually counter-productive.

Reading the above comments I'll add that transgender people are one of these groups that tend to encounter disproportionately high amounts of negatives (http://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/wp-content/uploads/AFSP-Williams-Suicide-Report-Final.pdf) - and that's why I make a point of going on the attack when people say they're "just complaining" or "feeling sorry for themselves" because it seems obvious from just looking into the macrodata that these people are oppressed (in that their life-outcomes are significantly reduced as a result of some normalised societal function).


I think it's worse that people think that such people actually make up a significant portion of the feminist movement.

Now see, that's a bit different, and I do agree with more of what you have to say here. There are definitely groups that are disadvantaged, and have legitimate cause to feel wronged- they damn well are.

But society also leads us to believe we should make profit off of our suffering, and not necessarily that we ever have to get over it and stop being bitter. This is more of what I was addressing.

Tumblr- for instance, yet again- is a huge perpetuator of this. Unintentionally. I hardly think that Yahoo or those who are running the site themselves intend their service to be used this way, but let's face it- it's practically what it's KNOWN for.

So many *ahem* teenage girls are using the LGBT community, ESPECIALLY the transgender community...To get attention and bitch. They're essentially making gender, gender identity, and transvestitism into an accessory. (I feel like there's a specific term for this, but eh. Well, I mean, appropriation, but eh.)

I'm not one to judge an individual's case, because there are obviously still legitimate members of the transgender community who take things seriously, and don't just use gender identity as an excuse for special treatment, but there are soooo many out there who do. It's like a trend. It's kind of like how so many teenage/twentysomething girls are now bisexual because some men are into that sort of thing.

Basically, there is a need to treat certain things with care, but people take it way too far, and THAT is what I call bullshit on.

Obviously people are still oppressed (if they are, in fact, what they say they are). As someone who is LGBT, handicapped, female, etc., I've witnessed oppression firsthand (and as someone who is light-skinned, has some amount of white privilege, mostly able-bodied, etc. I also have a fair amount of privilege, and can appreciate both sides of the issue.), however this also has lead me to see/believe that everything isn't always as it seems.

I'd rather give people the benefit of the doubt, but I don't usually give them my full trust. People are shady. Now that oppression is seen as a "trend", it's hard to know when someone is putting on a mask just to earn your pity.

[James Dean]

If someone wants to move this to ROTW that's cool. I'd imagine it's heading that way.


I think it's more likely that marginalised groups are becoming concious of the fact that they're marginalised.

And/or it becoming more socially acceptable to criticise the social institutions, attitudes, norms, etc. that maintain your marginalisation.


I don't see how "having it good" means you shouldn't complain when you're being unfairly discriminated against.

Especially when that discrimination is institutionalised.


I agree that trying to push a lot of this stuff through laws is just counter-productive.

I also don't tend to agree with a lot of the political-correctness that SJWs froth at the mouth with.

---



Is this something you've personally picked up on, or did you happen across this idea during your engagement with the American education system?

I tend to go with my own observations. I'm a gay teenager and I don't think anyone should be bullied at school. Even though I myself have learned to not to take insults personal, not everyone can say the same. I am happy there are repercussions for people who try to bully lgbt students.

[Vlerchan]

This is more of what I was addressing.
I'm making the point that individuals are irrelevant. It's macrodata that matters.

It's also notable that if "gendertrenders" (robbing from the South Park thread) where prevalent then we wouldn't be seeing the same prevalence of negatives we are - because it seems obvious that if there's no benefit to making a choice like this then people aren't going to make the choice.

Tumblr- for instance, yet again- is a huge perpetuator of this.
Have you ever considered that the proportion of Feminazis (etc.) on Tumblr is much lower and what we're seeing is the people with more extreme (read: interesting) views get followed and trended more?

[Karkat]

I'm making the point that individuals are irrelevant. It's macrodata that matters.

It's also notable that if "gendertrenders" (robbing from the South Park thread) where prevalent then we wouldn't be seeing the same prevalence of negatives we are - because it seems obvious that if there's no benefit to making a choice like this then people aren't going to make the choice.


Have you ever considered that the proportion of Feminazis (etc.) on Tumblr is much lower and what we're seeing is the people with more extreme (read: interesting) views get followed and trended more?

That is true. It's still annoying, though.

Eh, I meant more in volume, not in presence, necessarily.

[Buddy 912]

You will only find "fairness" and "justice" in the dictionary. So get over. Life is not fair and there is very little justice in the world.

[Stronk Serb]

You will only find "fairness" and "justice" in the dictionary. So get over. Life is not fair and there is very little justice in the world.


The fact that there is no justice in the world doesn't mean we shouldn't strive for it.

[Buddy 912]

The fact that there is no justice in the world doesn't mean we shouldn't strive for it.

True. Give it your best. We should all do this.

[Allbutanillusion]

I've really been seeing it a lot lately and I think we are creatin a society of victims. People need to stop complaining and feeling sorry for themselves. People, especially in first world countries, don't know how good they have it. people get offended so easy and think that coming up with stupid little laws now. Like heard to say some state or something made it law that kids in school cannot be called boys or girls so as not to offend the transgender community. Holy shit! Like really?

People really just need to grow up and quit being so sensitive.

I agree. Well said..... I have been communicating the same points for years..perhaps not quite as extensively. I think that there is defiantly a victim mentality in our culture/society today and I think a big motivator behind it is greedy. Just look all of the frivolous lawsuits being filed in the courts by people hoping to collect a huge payday, not because they were the victim of any real injustice or were every really a victim.