Should it be Mandatory to Spay and Neuter Your Pets?

[TheN3rdyOutcast]

http://www.virtualteen.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=7210&pictureid=39067
http://www.virtualteen.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=7210&pictureid=39066

It's probably been a while since I've posted a picture of this little guy, Oreo.
The sad thing is, he's getting neutered today. which brought me to the topic, Should it be mandatory to spay and neuter your pets?

I believe so, because it will reduce the number of stray animals roaming the streets, and baby animals born into the streets. However, the issue of animals rights, comes up, and is it really just to chop their reproductive parts out, when it's not essential to their livelyhood.

[Gamma Male]

There's no evidence to suggest spraying and neutering harms a dig or cats well being if done correctly. It prevents more strays from being born and living miserable lives. I'm all for it.


Although I really can't fathom why any meat eater would give a shit about animal suffering. I guess it's just wrong to hurt dogs and cats because they're cuter?

[Miserabilia]

aww hes always so adorable :3

Anyway I don't see any bad things about it, atleat nothing proven.

[TheN3rdyOutcast]

...Although I really can't fathom why any meat eater would give a shit about animal suffering. I guess it's just wrong to hurt dogs and cats because their cuter?...

It's a complicated thing. I do care about animal rights other than dogs and cats and various other animals to an extent, however, I realize that they're a part of the food chain and should be able to consumed, however, on the other hand it is wrong to both abuse these creatures that provide us sustenance and it's also a travesty to waste their meat.

I would go into further detail, but A) I would probably get the virtual shit beaten out of me, and B) Honestly, I only posted this thread because here in the southern US, almost nobody spays or neuters, and as a result, there are tons of stray and feral dogs and cats. And also, I just wanted an excuse to post pics of my dog. :D

[Typhlosion]

Of all people, I was least expecting vegan Donald to support such idea.

There's no evidence to suggest spraying and neutering harms a dig or cats well being if done correctly.

Wikipedia is your friend.


Spaying and neutering cats may increase the risk of obesity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obesity).[8] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutering#cite_note-PMID18774325-8) In cats, a decrease in sex hormone levels seems to be associated with an increase in food intake.[9] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutering#cite_note-PMID17845247-9) In dogs, the effects of neutering as a risk factor for obesity vary between breeds.[10] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutering#cite_note-PMID15923551-10)
Neutered dogs of both sexes are at a twofold excess risk to develop osteosarcoma (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osteosarcoma) (bone cancer) as compared to intact dogs. The risk of osteosarcoma increases with increasing breed size and especially height.[11] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutering#cite_note-Priester-11)[12] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutering#cite_note-Ru-12)[13] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutering#cite_note-Cooley-13)
Studies of cardiac tumors in dogs showed that there was a 5 times greater risk of hemangiosarcoma (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemangiosarcoma) (cancer of blood vessel lining), one of the three most common cancers in dogs, in spayed females than intact females and a 2.4 times greater risk of hemangiosarcoma in neutered dogs as compared to intact males.[14] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutering#cite_note-Prymak-14)[15] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutering#cite_note-Ware-15)
A study of golden retrievers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_retrievers) found that neutered males were 3 times more likely than intact males to be diagnosed with lymphoma (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lymphoma_in_animals) and 2 times more likely to have hip dysplasia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hip_dysplasia_%28canine%29).[20] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutering#cite_note-20)

Among others.


I'm also honestly surprised that the anarchist left-wing Donald would be against this, leaving all breeding to only certain entities with licenses from the government.
It prevents more strays from being born and living miserable lives. I'm all for it.At what misery a stray is subjected to compared to other feral animals?
I guess it's just wrong to hurt dogs and cats because their cuter?I'm going to be the guy against de-sexing. While it is useful to cut down some behavioral issues, is keeping an animal from their "normal" hormone states and abstaining them from procreation moral?

I won't fight against de-sexing, but my future dogs won't be de-sexed.

[JamesSuperBoy]

I guess it like a lot of things - spaying and neutering is a quick fix - education of owners- care and compassion take longer.

[Vlerchan]

Although I really can't fathom why any meat eater would give a shit about animal suffering. I guess it's just wrong to hurt dogs and cats because they're cuter?
I make a distinction between "necessary" and "unnecessary" suffering.

---

I also have no opinion on the topic.

[Karkat]

I wouldn't say mandatory. Ever heard of a puppy mill? No thank you. I don't trust breeders anyways. Personally, I'd get my animals from the humane society. Occasionally, people want to breed their animals (why we haven't gotten my male dog fixed), and obviously you can't do that with dogs that are fixed.

I feel like the discounts animal shelters sometimes give if you get your pet fixed is a good thing to have in place, because let's face it- people are lazy ignorant pigs and care more about their wallets than the impact of their actions.

[CosmicNoodle]

Simple answer : FUCK, NO...NO...JUST FUCKING NO..

Why the fuck would it be a good ides to remove a sensitive part of an animals anatomy simply because it makes your life easier, that's just inhumane! What if I removed yours because I didn't want to be a grand farther?!

[Stronk Serb]

My cat got very sick and after the surgery, which involved removing some infected sexual organs, she was fixed due to a lack of those. I don't think it should be legal. Animals can't consent, and let's face it, would you like someone to sedate you and chop off your family jewels without your consent? That's what I thought. Also all animals deserve rights. What walmart is doing to their pigs is inhumane. I think all soon to be food animals should have a better life. Open fields, members of the same species to socialise and the most painless death.

PS. That dog is so cute.

[CharlieHorse]

if it was mandatory, then dogs would die out within 20 years.

[Lovelife090994]

I had my dog spayed because on her period she was constantly bleeding all over the house and was extremely mean and hostile. We had to spay her to stop that, but now she's even more attitudinal. And still humps... A female dog humping... weird sight. I think it should be optional.

[duncan26]

No I think it should be optional.

[James Dean]

It would depend on the situation.

For example, we had brought in an alley cat that got attached to our front porch. But once we let him in, he kept marking his territory on our furniture and our clothes so we had no choice about it.

The female cat we have goes outside the house from time to time, and she somehow got pregnant and had a big litter. So it was an issue getting rid of all of those cats. So we just got that cat fixed soon after.

But I mean it's not cheap to do, and some cats and dogs don't act the same after, but in our case it was actually a blessing for us. So I'm indifferent about it.

[TheN3rdyOutcast]

I had my dog spayed because on her period she was constantly bleeding all over the house and was extremely mean and hostile. We had to spay her to stop that, but now she's even more attitudinal. And still humps... A female dog humping... weird sight. I think it should be optional.

Hollup, I didn't know dogs even HAD periods.

http://i.imgur.com/IW8simF.gif

[Lovelife090994]

Hollup, I didn't know dogs even HAD periods.

image (http://i.imgur.com/IW8simF.gif)

I think any female animal with a vagina, uterus, ovaries, and hormones has one.

[Gamma Male]

I apologize for responding late. I just don't like arguing about veganism online in a confrontational manner, I prefer to only just talk about it with people who are curious and ask me, but I was in a bad mood the day I first posted here.

Of all people, I was least expecting vegan Donald to support such idea.



Wikipedia is your friend.


Spaying and neutering cats may increase the risk of obesity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obesity).[8] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutering#cite_note-PMID18774325-8) In cats, a decrease in sex hormone levels seems to be associated with an increase in food intake.[9] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutering#cite_note-PMID17845247-9) In dogs, the effects of neutering as a risk factor for obesity vary between breeds.[10] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutering#cite_note-PMID15923551-10)
Neutered dogs of both sexes are at a twofold excess risk to develop osteosarcoma (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osteosarcoma) (bone cancer) as compared to intact dogs. The risk of osteosarcoma increases with increasing breed size and especially height.[11] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutering#cite_note-Priester-11)[12] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutering#cite_note-Ru-12)[13] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutering#cite_note-Cooley-13)
Studies of cardiac tumors in dogs showed that there was a 5 times greater risk of hemangiosarcoma (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemangiosarcoma) (cancer of blood vessel lining), one of the three most common cancers in dogs, in spayed females than intact females and a 2.4 times greater risk of hemangiosarcoma in neutered dogs as compared to intact males.[14] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutering#cite_note-Prymak-14)[15] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutering#cite_note-Ware-15)
A study of golden retrievers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_retrievers) found that neutered males were 3 times more likely than intact males to be diagnosed with lymphoma (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lymphoma_in_animals) and 2 times more likely to have hip dysplasia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hip_dysplasia_%28canine%29).[20] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutering#cite_note-20)

Among others.
I believe that the pain endured by a stray outweighs any(exaggerated and overstated by Wikipedia) minor pain endured by being sprayed or neutered. In the end, desexing does more good than harm.


I'm also honestly surprised that the anarchist left-wing Donald would be against this, leaving all breeding to only certain entities with licenses from the government.
Forgive me, I didn't realize my positive answer implied that I agreed with government mandated desexing. I don't. I think everyone should do it and I think it should be strongly encouraged, but I don't believe forceful government intervention is helpful.
At what misery a stray is subjected to compared to other feral animals?
A lot. Dogs and cats are not suited to survive on their own. Unlike their ancestors the wolves and the.....Egyptian protocats?:lol: Unlike the wild animals they evolved from they lack the bodies and minds needed to survive comfortably on their own. Strays usually due young and live poorly.
I'm going to be the guy against de-sexing. While it is useful to cut down some behavioral issues, is keeping an animal from their "normal" hormone states and abstaining them from procreation moral?
I believe so.
It's a complicated thing. I do care about animal rights other than dogs and cats and various other animals to an extent, however, I realize that they're a part of the food chain and should be able to consumed, however, on the other hand it is wrong to both abuse these creatures that provide us sustenance and it's also a travesty to waste their meat.
But factory farmed animals are abused.

If I got a mother dog pregnant, took away her puppy at birth, kept it confined in a cage so small it literally could not turn around for 6 months, then hung it up and slit it's throat while it was fully conscious and ate it, all the while repeatedly impregnating it's mom again and again for more milk and puppies, I would go to prison.

If I did this to a cow I would sell beef to mcdonalds and you would eat it.

The milk, beef, leather, and veal industries are all the same industry, and even if you don't think you support veal, if you support the others you do.



I would go into further detail, but A) I would probably get the virtual shit beaten out of me, and
It's okay, I won't bite. :P
B) Honestly, I only posted this thread because here in the southern US, almost nobody spays or neuters, and as a result, there are tons of stray and feral dogs and cats. And also, I just wanted an excuse to post pics of my dog. :D
I get you, but how would you feel if the same torture cows and chickens go through were to happen to your dog? Wouldn't you want to stop it?
I make a distinction between "necessary" and "unnecessary" suffering.

Okay. What is the suffering endured by food animals necessary for exactly?

[Typhlosion]

I apologize for responding late. I just don't like arguing about veganism online in a confrontational manner, I prefer to only just talk about it with people who are curious and ask me, but I was in a bad mood the day I first posted here. I wasn't confronting it, but I thought you were vegan because it's immoral to support the consumption of animals and the industry behind it. That might be, initially, contradictory to something that might be seen immoral like de-sexing.

My apologies if I troubled you/touched on something you don't like touching.


I believe that the pain endured by a stray outweighs any(exaggerated and overstated by Wikipedia) minor pain endured by being sprayed or neutered. In the end, desexing does more good than harm.

A lot. Dogs and cats are not suited to survive on their own. Unlike their ancestors the wolves and the.....Egyptian protocats?http://proxy.whoisaaronbrown.com/proxy/http://www.virtualteen.org/forums/images/smilies/icon_lol.gif Unlike the wild animals they evolved from they lack the bodies and minds needed to survive comfortably on their own. Strays usually due young and live poorly. Because of a lack of dog pounds and euthanization here in Brazil I don't observe what you've described. Could you please link me to something regarding the quality of life of stray dogs in the US/EU?

Forgive me, I didn't realize my positive answer implied that I agreed with government mandated desexing. I don't. I think everyone should do it and I think it should be strongly encouraged, but I don't believe forceful government intervention is helpful. Maybe I'm just being too picky on words here, but if everyone desexed doesn't that mean that either pets would extinguish or the first situation I described would happen?

Or you're for strongly encouraging it, but not necessarily in a mandatory unlawful manner?

Or am I missing something completely different?

But factory farmed animals are abused.

If I got a mother dog pregnant, took away her puppy at birth, kept it confined in a cage so small it literally could not turn around for 6 months, then hung it up and slit it's throat while it was fully conscious and ate it, all the while repeatedly impregnating it's mom again and again for more milk and puppies, I would go to prison. Which would be an argument against being 100% mandatory and leaving the breeding to authorized parties.

[Gamma Male]

I wasn't confronting it, but I thought you were vegan because it's immoral to support the consumption of animals and the industry behind it. That might be, initially, contradictory to something that might be seen immoral like de-sexing.

Like I said, I think desexing does a lot more good than harm.

My apologies if I troubled you/touched on something you don't like touching.

Oh I'm fine with it, I've just had bad experiences with animal rights related debates before on other forums. For some reason people tend to get really touchy about it.


Because of a lack of dog pounds and euthanization here in Brazil I don't observe what you've described. Could you please link me to something regarding the quality of life of stray dogs in the US/EU?
The average lifespans for stray dogs and cats are much lower than for domesticated ones. The main causes of death are starvation, disease, and exposure to the elements. All very painful obviously. This (http://www.strayrescue.org/node/319) site has more info.

Maybe I'm just being too picky on words here, but if everyone desexed doesn't that mean that either pets would extinguish or the first situation I described would happen?
It would reduce the dog and cat populations by a lot, which would be very very good right now since there are so many unwanted ones suffering. Obviously when the population gets back down to as manageable size and there are homes for them all breeding more will be fine. I don't want them to go extinct. :P

Or you're for strongly encouraging it, but not necessarily in a mandatory unlawful manner?
Right.

[DeadEyes]

Should it be mandatory to spay and neuter your pets? I believe so, because it will reduce the number of stray animals roaming the streets,

Following that logic, it should be mandatory for humans as well, to reduce the earth overpopulation.

[TheN3rdyOutcast]

Following that logic, it should be mandatory for humans as well, to reduce the earth overpopulation.

I would say that sounds like an okay idea if it weren't for the fact that it would just cause everyone to get pissed at me, and I don't want to argue.

[DeadEyes]

I would say that sounds like an okay idea if it weren't for the fact that it would just cause everyone to get pissed at me, and I don't want to argue.

Actually, I would even say that it sounds like a great idea, and I couldn't careless if it does piss some people off.

[Malibu_Barbie]

I don't think so. The only reason that it became so widespread is thanks to PETA trying to lower the number of domesticated animals because they're against animal domestication but have realized artificial selection has altered animals so much that if they were set free they would die.
Maybe a house pet birth control pill would be a much nicer alternative... :what:

[dakeep18]

no it should be your choice