Public prayer should not be allowed in schools?

[CosmicNoodle]

Well, what do you think? Is religion something that should be practiced in the privacy of your own home? Or is it something that should be manditory? (it was in my pre school, I refused to do it and got in trouble many times for it)

Or should we allow it and have specific rooms away from public view dedicated to prayer?

I'm not trying to start a shit storm (for once), keep it civil people! No name calling, and don't just say "It should be allowed because I want it to be", I want logical reasoning here, we are inteligent humans, use your inteligence!

Let the games begin!

[Gamma Male]

I think students should be allowed to pray in schools on the condition they aren't causing a disturbance or interrupting class. I also think teachers should be allowed to pray, but they absolutely should not be allowed to initiate prayer with students or mandate prayer, or lead it over the loud speaker or interrupt class to pray.


I'm absolutely for separation of church and state and freedom of religious expression, including in school.

[DeadEyes]

Nope, shouldn't be.

[TheN3rdyOutcast]

Sticky sticky subject here. Prayer should be allowed in schools as long as it is not being shoved down anyone's throat.

[ksdnfkfr]

I think the only way to do it without causing a disturbance is to do it privately and prayer in private should not be banned.

[Horatio Nelson]

I think students should be allowed to pray in schools on the condition they aren't causing a disturbance or interrupting class. I also think teachers should be allowed to pray, but they absolutely should not be allowed to initiate prayer with students or mandate prayer, or lead it over the loud speaker or interrupt class to pray.


I'm absolutely for separation of church and state and freedom of religious expression, including in school.



I agree with this completely.

[Typhlosion]

Interesting note:

Book of Matthew 6:5-6
5 (http://biblehub.com/matthew/6-5.htm) "When you pray, you are not to be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on the street corners so that they may be seen by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full. 6 (http://biblehub.com/matthew/6-6.htm) "But you, when you pray, go into your inner room, close your door and pray to your Father who is in secret, and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you.

[Aajj333]

No it shouldn't, and the people who don't think anything is wrong with it are ignorant.

[DeadEyes]

Interesting note:

Book of Matthew 6:5-6
5 (http://biblehub.com/matthew/6-5.htm) "When you pray, you are not to be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on the street corners so that they may be seen by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full. 6 (http://biblehub.com/matthew/6-6.htm) "But you, when you pray, go into your inner room, close your door and pray to your Father who is in secret, and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you.

So basically, even according to the bible, it shouldn't be.

[ImCoolBeans]

I think students should be allowed to pray in schools on the condition they aren't causing a disturbance or interrupting class. I also think teachers should be allowed to pray, but they absolutely should not be allowed to initiate prayer with students or mandate prayer, or lead it over the loud speaker or interrupt class to pray.


I'm absolutely for separation of church and state and freedom of religious expression, including in school.

I hate to say "yeah I agree." But Donald said it perfectly.

[Gamma Male]

No it shouldn't, and the people who don't think anything is wrong with it are ignorant.

So prayer shouldn't be allowed in school even if it isn't causing a disturbance or interrupting class? And people who don't want to ban it are ignorant?

[PinkFloyd]

I think it should be somewhere in the middle. It should not be forced by any means. On the flip side, it should also not be outlawed.

It shouldn't be that difficult to simply allow it.

If a kid wants to prey, let him,
If another kid doesn't want to, that's fine as well.

[Lovelife090994]

Interesting note:

Book of Matthew 6:5-6
5 (http://biblehub.com/matthew/6-5.htm) "When you pray, you are not to be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on the street corners so that they may be seen by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full. 6 (http://biblehub.com/matthew/6-6.htm) "But you, when you pray, go into your inner room, close your door and pray to your Father who is in secret, and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you.

This scripture involves prayer and boasting. You should never, and I mean never use prayer as a spectacle or way to infringe, God is not like that and we shouldn't be either. This scripture actually means that we should pray at home too, not just in church (something many don't do as Christians.) You can pray anywhere in the Lord. In public however you can pray anywhere as long as you aren't causing a spectacle. It's the main reason why Christians don't bow on the ground to pray. When you want to pray, just pray. Bow your head, close your head, look like you are pondering, whatever way you do, silent, whispered, or shared when wanted, just don't yell it to the high heavens.

I prayed in school every morning, no one minded. We kind of all at least bowed our heads at the moment of silence.

[James Dean]

It should be based on choice. If a student wants to pray they should be allowed to. But the whole school doesn't have to make it a rule. Same if they want to have bible study in school, it should be based on the student. Like post an announcement about it and say we meet in room 2 on thursdays for bible study. Like it's their choice.

[Miserabilia]

I don't know how this works in the rest of the world, but here we have almost only public high schools, but grade schools are different.
Only about half of grade schools are public, the other half is either protestant or catholic, even though the majority of the population is atheist.

The catholic grade schools like the one I went too, even though I am and my parents are atheist, had mostly atheist teachers working there. It's just a traditional thing, and it was simply a better school than the public schools.
We said out a prayer 1/2 times a day, depending on the day. It would be very short, like one of the basic prayers.

About 80% of my class didn't beleive in god and prayer.
But since it's a catholic school oficialy,
people would be allowed to pray in silence for a few minutes afterwards.

Obviously, you can't ask for everyone to be quiet or stop working because you want to pray.

As for public schools, I think they should be allowed to pray aslong as they do it by themselves and not alout, don't stop working because of it and don't distract other students.

[Lovelife090994]

I don't know how this works in the rest of the world, but here we have almost only public high schools, but grade schools are different.
Only about half of grade schools are public, the other half is either protestant or catholic, even though the majority of the population is atheist.

The catholic grade schools like the one I went too, even though I am and my parents are atheist, had mostly atheist teachers working there. It's just a traditional thing, and it was simply a better school than the public schools.
We said out a prayer 1/2 times a day, depending on the day. It would be very short, like one of the basic prayers.

About 80% of my class didn't beleive in god and prayer.
But since it's a catholic school oficialy,
people would be allowed to pray in silence for a few minutes afterwards.

Obviously, you can't ask for everyone to be quiet or stop working because you want to pray.

As for public schools, I think they should be allowed to pray aslong as they do it by themselves and not alout, don't stop working because of it and don't distract other students.


Where do you live where the majority is atheist? Scandinavia? China?

[CosmicNoodle]

Where do you live where the majority is atheist? Scandinavia? China?

The Uk is mainly Athiest, Christianity isn't as big as you seem to think it is, as far as I know most of Europe is athiest.
It's actually very rare to find a christian in the UK, I've only evcer come across 3. 1 of them was a god bothering lunatic, and the other 2 where cool people who I actually quite like.

[trustn01]

I think prayer should be allowed in schools as long as it's not disturbing anybody. And by disturbing, I don't mean an atheist saying things like: "Those Christians are disturbing because they worship a made up characters". (I realize not all atheist are like that, but all that I have met are).

[CosmicNoodle]

I think prayer should be allowed in schools as long as it's not disturbing anybody. And by disturbing, I don't mean an atheist saying things like: "Those Christians are disturbing because they worship a made up characters". (I realize not all atheist are like that, but all that I have met are).

Admitedly I find the concelpt of prayr ridiculous, but thats simply because I don't believe in the god you do. But I'd never had the audacity to say something like that. Unfortunately the athiests you've met don't seem to have made a very good impression.

[Miserabilia]

Where do you live where the majority is atheist? Scandinavia? China?

You're saying it like it's a rarity. I live in the netherlands.

[Christen]

my opinion is if someone wants to pray for him/herself ok do it if you feel it whether it is god , allah , buddah or whatever entity .
but the school should be neutral neither favoring or discriminating a religion or belief.

[Lovelife090994]

The Uk is mainly Athiest, Christianity isn't as big as you seem to think it is, as far as I know most of Europe is athiest.
It's actually very rare to find a christian in the UK, I've only evcer come across 3. 1 of them was a god bothering lunatic, and the other 2 where cool people who I actually quite like.

I don't think so. Maybe 2/5 but not a majority. Europe has many religions. Most atheists I met are terrible to the religious while the religious talk too soft to stop them.

You're saying it like it's a rarity. I live in the netherlands.

Are all atheists there as combatant or just you? The Atheism of America and atheists I've met are terrible!

[CosmicNoodle]

I don't think so. Maybe 2/5 but not a majority. Europe has many religions. Most atheists I met are terrible to the religious while the religious talk too soft to stop them.



Are all atheists there as combatant or just you?

Thats because most Athiests in America are discriminated against because they are the minority there. And to be honest, religious folks ain't to good to us ether, last regious guy I met shouted "Your gonna burn in hell forever!!" in my face. I really fail to see how that is "talk too soft"
And in what way am I combitant?

[Uranus]

I believe it should be allowed. Not because someone says so, or someone demands but because I believe we as people should have more freedom to do as we want, within reason. Just because someone doesn't do as one does doesn't make it bad, or mean it should be banned. As long as they aren't bothering anyone it should and anything similar, be perfectly fine.

Just because someone likes BMW, and one doesn't and prefers Mercedes Benz doesn't mean BMW should be wrong.

We as people need more freedom in this country. That's one of the reasons this government and economy is so corrupt. It's the land of the free. Not the land of unreasonable shit.

[CosmicNoodle]

It's the land of the free.

So long as your a white, christian, male, straight and republican.

[Lovelife090994]

Thats because most Athiests in America are discriminated against because they are the minority there. And to be honest, religious folks ain't to good to us ether, last regious guy I met shouted "Your gonna burn in hell forever!!" in my face. I really fail to see how that is "talk too soft"
And in what way am I combitant?

So you met a zealot? Zealousness is the bane to all religion and if he was Christian then he will have to face the music for saying that. God has no room for zeal. And atheists here are actually more liked than Christians or anyone really. You can be whatever but the moment someone wants to pray and is Christian then they are ridiculed. But when you bring it up everyone gets amnesia and blames the victim. America may mostly be Christian on paper but if you are a Christian here most people will use that to be against you forever. Are you combatant? Because it seems to me atheists only care about killing off all Christians. You can't talk about other faiths because that's discrimination but if it's Christianity then all of a sudden you are praised. Just look online. You can't give condolences without being shot down. That's the problem. Maybe in parts of Europe atheists are okay but here, forget it.

[Living For Love]

And to be honest, religious folks ain't to good to us ether, last regious guy I met shouted "Your gonna burn in hell forever!!" in my face.
Since you're an atheist, and therefore you don't believe in hell, it's not really an effective insult to you, is it?

[CosmicNoodle]

You can't talk about other faiths because that's discrimination but if it's Christianity then all of a sudden you are praised. Just look online. You can't give condolences without being shot down. That's the problem. Maybe in parts of Europe atheists are okay but here, forget it.

NO, I have the same questionsa nd throught about ALL reliions, Islam, Jews, Hindus, ect, ect, but christyans are thye most common on this site. And who said this thead was aimed specifically at chrsitians? It's not all about you. And you seem a little but hurt.
"You can't give condolences without being shot down", thats because if you say "He's with god now" (I'm simply presuming thats what you'd say, I may very well be wrong), no one wants to hear that, thats pushing your religion on others, just say "I'm sorry".

Since you're an atheist, and therefore you don't believe in hell, it's not really an effective insult to you, is it?

No it's not, but I dislike him using his reigion as a reson to scream in my face. Or impose his views onto me.

[Uranus]

So long as your a white, christian, male, straight and republican.

Doesn't matter about whether you're white, Republican or democratic, male or female, str8 homo or lesbian. We should all have rights no matter what. No matter who we are or what we do. Religion isn't a factor in the situation either. As long as you're not making a war of it.

[CosmicNoodle]

Doesn't matter about whether you're white, Republican or democratic, male or female, str8 homo or lesbian. We should all have rights no matter what. No matter who we are or what we do. Religion isn't a factor in the situation either. As long as you're not making a war of it.

Very true, thats what it SHOULD be, but it's really not right now, it's really a shame, but it has got infinately better in the last few years,a nd thats fucking awesome, but there is still work to be done.

[Uranus]

Very true, thats what it SHOULD be, but it's really not right now, it's really a shame, but it has got infinately better in the last few years,a nd thats fucking awesome, but there is still work to be done.

I totally agree! It's a real fucking shame with how the government is at the moment. Now, I'm not trying to make people angry here, its my own opinion, I really don't think Pres. Barack Obama is reliable enough to be the President of the U.S. He has raised gas prices dramatically, ruined peoples health plans, probably wasn't even born in the U.S.. But he is a smart man. He just needs to think and act better. Let's hope our next president is truly reliable and respects his country and people

[Lovelife090994]

NO, I have the same questionsa nd throught about ALL reliions, Islam, Jews, Hindus, ect, ect, but christyans are thye most common on this site. And who said this thead was aimed specifically at chrsitians? It's not all about you. And you seem a little but hurt.
"You can't give condolences without being shot down", thats because if you say "He's with god now" (I'm simply presuming thats what you'd say, I may very well be wrong), no one wants to hear that, thats pushing your religion on others, just say "I'm sorry".



No it's not, but I dislike him using his reigion as a reson to scream in my face. Or impose his views onto me.

You missed the point. It's not all about me. I never said that. And to say someone is with God is not imposing, it's comforting. God gives hope, life, and love. Taking him as an insult says more about you the well-wisher. So you don't care? You can't help it. You don't see it.

[CosmicNoodle]

I totally agree! It's a real fucking shame with how the government is at the moment. Now, I'm not trying to make people angry here, its my own opinion, I really don't think Pres. Barack Obama is reliable enough to be the President of the U.S. He has raised gas prices dramatically, ruined peoples health plans, probably wasn't even born in the U.S.. But he is a smart man. He just needs to think and act better. Let's hope our next president is truly reliable and respects his country and people

We're getting off topic, but fuck it, VT is designed to start conversation.

I would prefer if the liberals got in power, whilst I have no problem with people being repiublicans, but look at them, whenever they get in power shit hits the fan. They ignore the budget, ignore social issues, focus only on the rick and what benefits them.
Admitedly the liberals have MANY problems as well, but at least they attempt to tackle the issues above^

And ye, Obama hasnt done an AMAZING job, but he did better than Bush...

You missed the point. It's not all about me. I never said that. And to say someone is with God is not imposing, it's comforting. God gives hope, life, and love. Taking him as an insult says more about you the well-wisher. So you don't care? You can't help it. You don't see it.

Yep, God is comforting to people of the same reigion as you, you have to undersatnd, to people who don't believe in him, it means NOTHING at all, you may as well dance and give out silly hats, it would be just as comforting.
"God gives hope, life, and love", not to an athiest, or someone of a different religion.

But I will admit, the sentiment is nice, but missplaced, in my opinion, just my opinion, god has no place in comforting an athiest, soemone who doesnt bleieve in him.
And a lot of people, me included, simply get agri vated when he is brought in when trying to comfort you.

[Uranus]

We're getting off topic, but fuck it, VT is designed to start conversation.

I would prefer if the liberals got in power, whilst I have no problem with people being repiublicans, but look at them, whenever they get in power shit hits the fan. They ignore the budget, ignore social issues, focus only on the rick and what benefits them.
Admitedly the liberals have MANY problems as well, but at least they attempt to tackle the issues above^

And ye, Obama hasnt done an AMAZING job, but he did better than Bush...



Yep, God is comforting to people of the same reigion as you, you have to undersatnd, to people who don't believe in him, it means NOTHING at all, you may as well dance and give out silly hats, it would be just as comforting.
"God gives hope, life, and love", not to an athiest, or someone of a different religion.

But I will admit, the sentiment is nice, but missplaced, in my opinion, just my opinion, god has no place in comforting an athiest, soemone who doesnt bleieve in him.
And a lot of people, me included, simply get agri vated when he is brought in when trying to comfort you.

Yep. Anyways this is what we live with.. Guess we have to live with what we have

[Vlerchan]

I don't care if people pray in schools, as long as those who don't want to pray are not forced into it.

Let's hope our next president is truly reliable and respects his country and people
#Paul2016?

[Uranus]

I don't care if people pray in schools, as long as those who don't want to pray are not forced into it.


#Paul2016?

Exactly. I don't care either what most people do. And what some don't do. I just don't appreciate the government being so.. Asshole-like.

I don't care who the next president is, as long ad he or she, does a good job, and treats everyone fairly

[Lovelife090994]

We're getting off topic, but fuck it, VT is designed to start conversation.

I would prefer if the liberals got in power, whilst I have no problem with people being repiublicans, but look at them, whenever they get in power shit hits the fan. They ignore the budget, ignore social issues, focus only on the rick and what benefits them.
Admitedly the liberals have MANY problems as well, but at least they attempt to tackle the issues above^

And ye, Obama hasnt done an AMAZING job, but he did better than Bush...



Yep, God is comforting to people of the same reigion as you, you have to undersatnd, to people who don't believe in him, it means NOTHING at all, you may as well dance and give out silly hats, it would be just as comforting.
"God gives hope, life, and love", not to an athiest, or someone of a different religion.

But I will admit, the sentiment is nice, but missplaced, in my opinion, just my opinion, god has no place in comforting an athiest, soemone who doesnt bleieve in him.
And a lot of people, me included, simply get agri vated when he is brought in when trying to comfort you.

It's the thought that counts. By your logic atheists and the religious or other religions can never be empathetic because we don't believe in the same thing. I am not Muslim but many in my area are and they say "Allah Bless you" and offer prayer all of the time. I don't knock them for that or say "I'm not Muslim" I take the wishing.

[CosmicNoodle]

It's the thought that counts. By your logic atheists and the religious or other religions can never be empathetic because we don't believe in the same thing. I am not Muslim but many in my area are and they say "Allah Bless you" and offer prayer all of the time. I don't knock them for that or say "I'm not Muslim" I take the wishing.

Then by your logic it's impossible to be empathetic without involving religion. Is it really impossible to show emathy without involving religion?

(a while ago things seemed to get a little hostile, just a reminder I asked everyone to keep it cool, that goes for me as well)

[Lovelife090994]

Then by your logic it's impossible to be empathetic without involving religion. Is it really impossible to show emathy without involving religion?

(a while ago things seemed to get a little hostile, just a reminder I asked everyone to keep it cool, that goes for me as well)

Be as hostile as you want. I'm used to hostility by now. You can sympathetic without religion. But I have the right to be with it and am. I never simply wish well, I pray for things to be well.

[CosmicNoodle]

Be as hostile as you want. I'm used to hostility by now. You can sympathetic without religion. But I have the right to be with it and am. I never simply wish well, I pray for things to be well.

No, I won't be hostile, I don't want this to decend into a petty squable.

It's GREAT that you want to pray for things to be well, it shows your a caring sympathetic person and I comend you for that. But if you know for afact, that a lot of people will be annoyed, or sometimes even take offense when you bring religion into a situation, even if you mean well, wouldn't it be better to pray for them in private if you really wished to?

[Vlerchan]

But if you know for afact, that a lot of people will be annoyed, or sometimes even take offense when you bring religion into a situation
I can't understand how someone would be annoyed ro take offence at someone being religious around him.

[Broken Toy]

I think that if children were more widely educated on religion and religious choices at a young age. Like maybe there could be no specific prayer leader but a prayer time.
Therefore there is no focus ona certain religion and people can pray to their own higher authorities.

If there is a prayer leader that could be seen as discrimination in the diverse culture of the world now

[Lovelife090994]

No, I won't be hostile, I don't want this to decend into a petty squable.

It's GREAT that you want to pray for things to be well, it shows your a caring sympathetic person and I comend you for that. But if you know for afact, that a lot of people will be annoyed, or sometimes even take offense when you bring religion into a situation, even if you mean well, wouldn't it be better to pray for them in private if you really wished to?

I do pray in private. I tell the person "I'm praying for you" and leave. I don't like people but I don't like seeing pain either. I've learned a simple "I care" is enough.

[CosmicNoodle]

I can't understand how someone would be annoyed ro take offence at someone being religious around him.

To be honest, I don't ether, but it happens. And why did you put the T in bold? It's not as if I can't see it.

[CosmicNoodle]

I think that if children were more widely educated on religion and religious choices at a young age. Like maybe there could be no specific prayer leader but a prayer time.
Therefore there is no focus ona certain religion and people can pray to their own higher authorities.

If there is a prayer leader that could be seen as discrimination in the diverse culture of the world now

What of the children who don't want to pray to a higher power, or don't believe in one? What if people decide that they want to follow a certian religion? Shall they be banned from expressin themselfes? That'd be a horrible world to live in.

I do pray in private. I tell the person "I'm praying for you" and leave. I don't like people but I don't like seeing pain either. I've learned a simple "I care" is enough.

Fair enough, can't argue with that.

I've reised thought this hole thing I haven't said my own views on this topic. They are as follows:

A child, adolecent or adult should have every right to pray in school, however, it should NOT be manditory or encoraged, it should be done as a choice, not because of convention or encoragment. School should be a place to learn, not to indoctrinate people into whatever religion. If a person sees fit to pray in school, they should be alowed to do so in public, but should also have access to a private room if they see fit.


EDIT:
Shit, double post, sorry

[Broken Toy]

What of the children who don't want to pray to a higher power, or don't believe in one? What if people decide that they want to follow a certian religion? Shall they be banned from expressin themselfes? That'd be a horrible world to live in.



Fair enough, can't argue with that.

I've reised thought this hole thing I haven't said my own views on this topic. They are as follows:

A child, adolecent or adult should have every right to pray in school, however, it should NOT be manditory or encoraged, it should be done as a choice, not because of convention or encoragment. School should be a place to learn, not to indoctrinate people into whatever religion. If a person sees fit to pray in school, they should be alowed to do so in public, but should also have access to a private room if they see fit.


EDIT:
Shit, double post, sorry


No. If there's no prayer leader, they pray to their own higher power, everyone gets to do whatever they want. If they aren't religious then they can just sit around for a minute, talk if they want to, free choice for all

[Vlerchan]

It's not as if I can't see it.
It was an edit.

If someone managed to read what I said wrong then I'd hope that'd bring attention to the correction.

---

To expand on what I said earlier, I'm going to side with the well-meaning religious person over antithiests every single time.

[CosmicNoodle]

No. If there's no prayer leader, they pray to their own higher power, everyone gets to do whatever they want. If they aren't religious then they can just sit around for a minute, talk if they want to, free choice for all

Ahhh, I see what you mean, sooo, there would be time when people are allowed to pary, and if you decide not to partake, you can sit it out, correct?

This idea is good, but wouldnt it get in the way of education if you had to stop and have a designated time to pray? And some religions have specific times of day in wich they pray, what of them?

It was an edit.

If someone managed to read what I said wrong then I'd hope that'd bring attention to the correction.

---

To expand on what I said earlier, I'm going to side with the well-meaning religious person over antithiests every single time.

I suppose so, I can't really argue with that and I have no real reason to do so, but doesn't it bother you that sometimes it can offend a person? Is it better that the religios person is happy with themselfes rather than actually comfoting someone in distress?

[Vlerchan]

... but doesn't it bother you that sometimes it can offend a person?
It bothers me more so that someone can take offence.

That's not saying much though. If people want to get offended over something so petty I'm not going to sympathise with them.

Is it better that the religios person is happy with themselfes rather than actually comfoting someone in distress?
It's very rare that a religious person will just say "I know! I'll pray for you!?", and leave it at that.

Your argument would make sense if that was the norm.

[CosmicNoodle]

It bothers me more so that someone can take offence.

So it's better to offend someone than keep your views to yourself...


That's not saying much though. If people want to get offended over something so petty I'm not going to sympathise with them.

Saying that, people get offended to easily, I'm tempted to agree with you that it shouldn't matter

It's very rare that a religious person will just say "I know! I'll pray for you!?", and leave it at that.

So you speak for ALL religious people? You know they ALL definately pray? And don't just forget about thingsa s humans tend to do, and didn't just say it in a poor attempt to comfort someone?

Your argument would make sense if that was the norm.
....

[Vlerchan]

So it's better to offend someone than keep your views to yourself...
I suppose if you want to word it that way you can.

I, again, find it saddening that individuals can get offended by someone else's views.

---

I hope you always realise that it goes beyond religious views too. The amount of hilarious responses we've gotten to phuckphace's views is evidence of that.

So you speak for ALL religious people? You know they ALL definately pray?
I never claimed this.

I claimed that it's rare that religious people will just leave a statement of their intentions to pray in response to distress.

[Miserabilia]

Are all atheists there as combatant or just you? The Atheism of America and atheists I've met are terrible!

Completely irrelevant and off limits. Concidered not even wasting a response to this but I have time.

[CosmicNoodle]

I suppose if you want to word it that way you can.

I, again, find it saddening that individuals can get offended by someone else's views.

For the most part, so do I, although I am guilty of this myself at times.

---

I hope you always realise that it goes beyond religious views too. The amount of hilarious responses we've gotten to phuckphace's views is evidence of that.
I like PhuckPhace for the exact reason, anyway, I know it goes beyond religion alone, but religion happens to be the focus of this thread.



Completely irrelevant and off limits. Concidered not even wasting a response to this but I have time.

Thats what I thought as well.

[DeadEyes]

I can't understand how someone would be annoyed ro take offence at someone being religious around him.

Because religion brainwashes people so they believe in their so called god (whatever they name him) and attempt to make you feel guilty or scare you if you don't.

[CharlieHorse]

didn't they already allow people to pray? it's just not forced, and it's allowed to be done in private.

schools should instill a religion to worship chocolate milk

[Vlerchan]

Because religion brainwashes people so they believe in their so called god (whatever they name him)[1] and attempt to make you feel guilty or scare you if you don't[2].
[1]: Right. And it offends you that people act on their 'brainwashing'? Of course I also recognise 'brainwashing' for the loaded term it is but let's pretend I don't.

[2]: I've never encountered this personally. I don't see why you'd base your interactions with religious people on interactions you may or may not have had with a minority regardless.

On a side note, is there something negative about religion that makes people adopting it 'bad'?

[DeadEyes]

I've never encountered this personally.

As if Christians didn't have as habit to tell you that you will burn in hell if you don't believe in their god.

[Miserabilia]

On a side note, is there something negative about religion that makes people adopting it 'bad'?

Depending on the religion the situation and the specific person that is religious, there could very well be something negative about it.

[Vlerchan]

As if Christians didn't have as habit to tell you that you will burn in hell if you don't believe in their god.
Yes. I've not encountered this supposed 'habit'.

Depending on the religion the situation and the specific person that is religious, there could very well be something negative about it.
I could say this about anything.

[Miserabilia]

I could say this about anything.

Exactly. That's why the question was pointless.

[Vlerchan]

Exactly. That's why the question was pointless.
I was hoping that DeadEyes would realise there's nothing intrinsically negative about someone being religious.

[Miserabilia]

I was hoping that DeadEyes would realise there's nothing intrinsically negative about someone being religious.

Oh okay I see. Sometimes I'm a little slow on recognizing someone's intentions :lol:

[Typhlosion]

So basically, even according to the bible, it shouldn't be.

Not really...

This scripture involves prayer and boasting. You should never, and I mean never use prayer as a spectacle or way to infringe, God is not like that and we shouldn't be either. This scripture actually means that we should pray at home too, not just in church (something many don't do as Christians.) You can pray anywhere in the Lord. In public however you can pray anywhere as long as you aren't causing a spectacle. It's the main reason why Christians don't bow on the ground to pray. When you want to pray, just pray. Bow your head, close your head, look like you are pondering, whatever way you do, silent, whispered, or shared when wanted, just don't yell it to the high heavens.

I prayed in school every morning, no one minded. We kind of all at least bowed our heads at the moment of silence.

Chris is totally right on this. Prayers aren't to be done to appeal to man, but instead god. Otherwise, that would pretty much mean the elimination of churches.

---

I had less time to post than now, so I'll develop a bit. I am not against prayer in schools if they're done for private reasons, for aexample, someone of the staff or students pray. What I can't support are publicly-founded schools that have obligatory praying sessions, it's just unconstitutional, biased and unfair. Private schools? No problem.

My quote from the Bible was to address the (somewhat, one or two years ago) recent scandals of a school that was challenged by a non-christian student and the school just did it in an ostentatious manner to shun off that student. Unfortunately, I cannot find that case on the net.

[CosmicNoodle]

Not really...



Chris is totally right on this. Prayers aren't to be done to appeal to man, but instead god. Otherwise, that would pretty much mean the elimination of churches.

---

I had less time to post than now, so I'll develop a bit. I am not against prayer in schools if they're done for private reasons, for aexample, someone of the staff or students pray. What I can't support are publicly-founded schools that have obligatory praying sessions, it's just unconstitutional, biased and unfair. Private schools? No problem.

My quote from the Bible was to address the (somewhat, one or two years ago) recent scandals of a school that was challenged by a non-christian student and the school just did it in an ostentatious manner to shun off that student. Unfortunately, I cannot find that case on the net.

My old schol had obiligitory paryer sessions (very rare in the UK), and being an athiest I refused to pray each and every timew I was told to, and each and every time I would be punished, in effect beingpunished for having different views. To be honest that mared my view on christianity, gave me a poor introduction too it.

[DeadEyes]

I've not encountered this supposed 'habit'.

Then, maybe you are in the need of encountering more Christians to realize that's how they preach (and that's the whole problem, the preaching).

[Vlerchan]

Then, maybe you are in the need of encountering more Christians to realize that's how they preach (and that's the whole problem, the preaching).
I live in the Rep. of Ireland. I encounter Christians everyday.

Roman Catholic 84.16%, No Religion 7.63%, Church of Ireland 2.81%, Islam 1.07%, Presbyterian 0.54%, Orthodox 0.99%, Methodist 0.15% (2011). In an Irish Times Behaviour Attitudes social poll published on 15 September 2010, 32% of those surveyed said they went to a religious service more than once a week.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_Republic_of_Ireland#Religions

[Babs]

I have no issue with students praying for themselves to whomever. However public schools should be neutral when it comes to religion.

[Buddy 912]

Every nation, every person who has turned away from God has parished. IF the USA and other countries take God out of everything, they will parish. USA has a good start to it's final days.

[Gamma Male]

Every nation, every person who has turned away from God has parished.
Please provide evidence substantiating this claim.


IF the USA and other countries take God out of everything, they will parish. USA has a good start to it's final days.

Please provide evidence substantiating this claim.

[Miserabilia]

Every nation, every person who has turned away from God has parished. IF the USA and other countries take God out of everything, they will parish. USA has a good start to it's final days.

What does "parished" mean?

[Gamma Male]

What does "parished" mean?

I think he means perish. It means to die off or rot or fade away.

[CosmicNoodle]

Every nation, every person who has turned away from God has parished. IF the USA and other countries take God out of everything, they will parish. USA has a good start to it's final days.

Please provide evidence.

Wait, I have counter enpvidence. In the UK, atheism is the most common believe, or should I say lack there of. And guess what, there's no fire and brim stone, no death and destruction in the streets. Nothing has gone wrong. Please apply your critical thinking skills to what you say, it stops you from looking foolish.

[Miserabilia]

What does "parished" mean?

Every nation, every person who has turned away from God has parished. IF the USA and other countries take God out of everything, they will parish. USA has a good start to it's final days.

If you really ment "perished", that's quite a ridiculous thing to say.
I "turned away from god" , and so did my parents.
I'm pretty sure my parents weren't hit by lightning or anything.

Not to mention several societies have run and existed for milenia without the abhrahamic god...

So what you're saying really doesn't make any sense untill you limit your statement a little.

[CosmicNoodle]

If you really ment "perished", that's quite a ridiculous thing to say.
I "turned away from god" , and so did my parents.
I'm pretty sure my parents weren't hit by lightning or anything.

Not to mention several societies have run and existed for milenia without the abhrahamic god...

So what you're saying really doesn't make any sense untill you limit your statement a little.
Well he's allowed to belief whatever he wants, but your right, there isn't much evidence behind it. And the term "turn away from god" never really fits the situation perfectly, because a lot of people never believe in him in the first place, at all. So how can you turn away from him, that term only resly works in the context of someone religious who has abandoned religion.

[Lovelife090994]

Please provide evidence.

Wait, I have counter enpvidence. In the UK, atheism is the most common believe, or should I say lack there of. And guess what, there's no fire and brim stone, no death and destruction in the streets. Nothing has gone wrong. Please apply your critical thinking skills to what you say, it stops you from looking foolish.

You're right, instead there's hatred to anyone religious and this false belief that anyone of religion is illogical. Do you honestly think Atheism is any better? No religion supersedes another.

[CosmicNoodle]

You're right, instead there's hatred to anyone religious and this false belief that anyone of religion is illogical. Do you honestly think Atheism is any better? No religion supersedes another.

No, atheism is no better at all, its just as bad if not worse. People use it as an excuse to bash people of religion. I agree with you that no religion is any better than another (in my opinion they are all as bad as each other), they are all the same in my eyes, and atheism, meh, not really a believe, more lack there off, it doesn't exists, its just a label for people who don't believe something.

But overall no, atheism isn't better, everyone's as stupid as everyone else, regardless of religion or lack of. But I'm an atheist.

(P.S. where you been? Been ages since I've seen you around)

[Buddy 912]

Sorry for the misspelling. Try the Romans, Stalin, Hitler on for size. There are many more examples. No God, no country/empire.

[Vlerchan]

Romans.
You'll find that the Roman's were one of the most successful civilisations that existed.

It's actually ironic that the worst of their decline happened after their leadership converted to Christianity in 500-ish.

Stalin.
What was wrong with the USSR?

The USSR was also still a majority religious (orthodox Christian) during Stalin's rule. It's fall also had nothing to do with its religious demographic.

Hitler.
Hitler never made an attempt to play down the role of Protestantism in NS Germany (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestant_Reich_Church) during his rule.

No God, no country/empire.
Yes, the Romans, the USSR, or NS Germany were never formidable states in their time.

Keep going though.

[Gamma Male]

Sorry for the misspelling. Try the Romans, Stalin, Hitler on for size. There are many more examples. No God, no country/empire.

First of all, both Hitler and the Romans were Christians at the time of their demise.

And second of all, I can vote numerous examples of Christian nations perishing, but that doesn't mean Christianity caused them to parish. Just like atheism isn't automatically to blame when an atheist nation perishes. Correlation =/= Causality

[CosmicNoodle]

You'll find that the Roman's were one of the most successful civilisations that existed.

It's actually ironic that the worst of their decline happened after their leadership converted to Christianity in 500-ish.


What was wrong with the USSR?

The USSR was also still a majority religious (orthodox Christian) during Stalin's rule. It's fall also had nothing to do with its religious demographic.


Hitler never made an attempt to play down the role of Protestantism in NS Germany (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestant_Reich_Church) during his rule.


Yes, the Romans, the USSR, or NS Germany were never formidable states in their time.

Keep going though.

Basically the argument I was going to make, thank you for saving me the trouble

First of all, both Hitler and the Romans were Christians at the time of their demise.

And second of all, I can vote numerous examples of Christian nations perishing, but that doesn't mean Christianity caused them to parish. Just like atheism isn't automatically to blame when an atheist nation perishes. Correlation =/= Causality

Again, I agree.

Sorry for the misspelling. Try the Romans, Stalin, Hitler on for size. There are many more examples. No God, no country/empire.

One I'd like to add is my own empire, the British empire rose and fell, and it fell whilst still under the beliefe of a god, it's not as if god is a stape for a healthy empire, your argument is compleatly unfounded.

[Babs]

Sorry for the misspelling. Try the Romans, Stalin, Hitler on for size. There are many more examples. No God, no country/empire.

The previous few replies said it pretty well.
Religion isn't what makes a good society. It's pretty irrelevant, actually. I think, part of what makes a good country, is one where the people have the freedom to express their religion whatever it may be, or a lack thereof, without it being imposed unto others. However, religion in itself is not what makes a society thrive.
If there are many more examples, I'd like to hear them.

[jayjay's toocool]

In America They have freedom of religion you can practice it anywhere.... But nothing you do should impede others rights...... I think it's stupid to say religion shouldn't be allowed, a religion is beliefs and values.... so neither should core values idiots

[Lovelife090994]

No, atheism is no better at all, its just as bad if not worse. People use it as an excuse to bash people of religion. I agree with you that no religion is any better than another (in my opinion they are all as bad as each other), they are all the same in my eyes, and atheism, meh, not really a believe, more lack there off, it doesn't exists, its just a label for people who don't believe something.

But overall no, atheism isn't better, everyone's as stupid as everyone else, regardless of religion or lack of. But I'm an atheist.

(P.S. where you been? Been ages since I've seen you around)

I reply on a post a day. Where have my posts gone? I was avoiding the forums a bit. I didn't feel like being insulted again for stating my opinion.

First of all, both Hitler and the Romans were Christians at the time of their demise.

And second of all, I can vote numerous examples of Christian nations perishing, but that doesn't mean Christianity caused them to parish. Just like atheism isn't automatically to blame when an atheist nation perishes. Correlation =/= Causality

Let me stop right at the first sentence. Hitler's regime was mostly atheist and none of their ways remotely reflect Christianity in any way. Whenever one says "I'm Christian," but demonstrates acts far from, then they are not Christian by any stretch.

Merged double post. ~Typhlosion

[Gamma Male]

Let me stop right at the first sentence. Hitler's regime was mostly atheist and none of their ways remotely reflect Christianity in any way. Whenever one says "I'm Christian," but demonstrates acts far from, then they are not Christian by any stretch.

He identified as christian and openly worshiped Christ. That's all that is required to be christian. You don't get to further define "christian" to suit your own personal interpretation of the bible. You can't say he wasn't a real christian just because he did stuff you don't consider christian, but he did consider christian.

[Lovelife090994]

He identified as christian and openly worshiped Christ. That's all that is required to be christian. You don't get to further define "christian" to suit your own personal interpretation of the bible. You can't say he wasn't a real christian just because he did stuff you don't consider christian, but he did consider christian.

No, that is not all it takes to be Christian. You can worship God all you want but if you're living in evil then you do not deserve or are to carry the name of Christ. Ever heard of false-Christian? There are many. Hitler was like Satan on Earth. No wonder you hate Christendom. You blame it for the acts of one evil delusional man who may have been raised in the church but chose to leave it. The KKK aren't Christian either, due to their hatred. God is not a god of hate.

[Miserabilia]

No, that is not all it takes to be Christian. You can worship God all you want but if you're living in evil then you do not deserve or are to carry the name of Christ. Ever heard of false-Christian? There are many. Hitler was like Satan on Earth. No wonder you hate Christendom. You blame it for the acts of one evil delusional man who may have been raised in the church but chose to leave it. The KKK aren't Christian either, due to their hatred. God is not a god of hate.

You can't fix a problem with christianity by simply saying negative sides of christianity "aren't really christian" and therefore saying they don't exist at all.
The definition of christianity is

A Christian (About this sound pronunciation (help·info)) is a person who adheres to Christianity, an Abrahamic, monotheistic religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus of Nazareth. "Christian" derives from the Koine Greek word Christós (Χριστός), a translation of the Biblical Hebrew term mashiach.

There are infinitely many interpetations to this. Anyone who follows christian beleifs and the christian holy book can call themselves christian.
By doing evil things, they are not automaticaly not-christian.
I understand that who is "christian" and who is "not christian" is icky;
there's a fine line.
Therefore we can't just exclude some people; what you may concider a christian person may not be concidered christian by others.


There are catholics who concider protestants 'not christian" and protestants who concider catholics "not christian".

[Vlerchan]

He identified as christian and openly worshiped Christ.
Hitler was very much anti-Christian (http://www.nytimes.com/2002/01/13/weekinreview/word-for-word-case-against-nazis-hitler-s-forces-planned-destroy-german.html?pagewanted=all).

He just acted Christian because it was good politically with the largely Christian German people.

[Lovelife090994]

You can't fix a problem with christianity by simply saying negative sides of christianity "aren't really christian" and therefore saying they don't exist at all.
The definition of christianity is



There are infinitely many interpetations to this. Anyone who follows christian beleifs and the christian holy book can call themselves christian.
By doing evil things, they are not automaticaly not-christian.
I understand that who is "christian" and who is "not christian" is icky;
there's a fine line.
Therefore we can't just exclude some people; what you may concider a christian person may not be concidered christian by others.


There are catholics who concider protestants 'not christian" and protestants who concider catholics "not christian".

Get your head out of your butt and listen to me. I am not writing off anything. But I won't stand for the likes of you insulting my intelligence and faith either when you would not do the same to others. Hitler was a politician and used Christianity as a guise to gain German support, but by then it was too late for the Germans to turn back on their votes. And I am telling you how it is. You cannot be Christian and living an unchristian life or living in evil. Anything negative done in the name of Christ was done in the name of human evil and ignorance. God simply is not evil or hateful, so you cannot use his name in vain. What more, is that God has Hell ready for all who use his works, Bible, and name for ill-intent. Being Christian is not some cheap label, it carries weight, therefore not everyone can truly be Christian. And Protestants and Catholics are both Christian. The difference is age.

Hitler was very much anti-Christian (http://www.nytimes.com/2002/01/13/weekinreview/word-for-word-case-against-nazis-hitler-s-forces-planned-destroy-german.html?pagewanted=all).

He just acted Christian because it was good politically with the largely Christian German people.

Not to mention, the fact that Hitler had Christians killed too.

[Gamma Male]

No, that is not all it takes to be Christian. You can worship God all you want but if you're living in evil then you do not deserve or are to carry the name of Christ. Ever heard of false-Christian? There are many. Hitler was like Satan on Earth.
As long as he at least vaguely followed the teachings of the bible he was Christian. You do not get to further define Christianity to suit your own personal interpretation of it.
No wonder you hate Christendom. You blame it for the acts of one evil delusional man who may have been raised in the church but chose to leave it.
I don't appreciate you flat out lying about what I said and putting words in my mouth. I've never blamed the Holocaust on Christianity.
The KKK aren't Christian either, due to their hatred. God is not a god of hate.

That's your opinion. Maybe they think god is a God of hate?

[Miserabilia]

Get your head out of your butt and listen to me. I am not writing off anything. But I won't stand for the likes of you insulting my intelligence and faith either when you would not do the same to others. Hitler was a politician and used Christianity as a guise to gain German support, but by then it was too late for the Germans to turn back on their votes. And I am telling you how it is. You cannot be Christian and living an unchristian life or living in evil. Anything negative done in the name of Christ was done in the name of human evil and ignorance. God simply is not evil or hateful, so you cannot use his name in vain. What more, is that God has Hell ready for all who use his works, Bible, and name for ill-intent. Being Christian is not some cheap label, it carries weight, therefore not everyone can truly be Christian. And Protestants and Catholics are both Christian. The difference is age.



Not to mention, the fact that Hitler had Christians killed too.


Right, ofcourse, how silly of me.
The only way for me to "get my head out of my butt" is, obviously, to see that you are right, no matter what you say.
Saying otherwise is offending you and your religion. My deepest and most sinciere apologies to you, for daring to say that your definition is not, ofcourse, the only true one.

How dare I, In my ignorance, in my utter dimwitted mind, try to find and follow objective definitions, instead of just realizing that you were right, simply because you said so, and ofcourse always are?

Ofcourse you are telling me how it is. I was being stupid and ignorant. It's obvious to me now, that everything you say is the absolute and utter truth. Thank you for clarifying my mind. I see the light.
Thank you.

[Typhlosion]

Could you guys please go back to the topic?

Ya'know... Hitler is dead already, he isn't making public prayer in schools mandatory or whatnot.

Thanks.

[CosmicNoodle]

Could you guys please go back to the topic?

Ya'know... Hitler is dead already, he isn't making public prayer in schools mandatory or whatnot.

Thanks.

Se what I mean now dude? A conversation killed by rules. Just pointing it out, your (well, the sites, you just enforce them) rules kill actual conversation.

[Emerald Dream]

Se what I mean now dude? A conversation killed by rules. Just pointing it out, your (well, the sites, you just enforce them) rules kill actual conversation.

And this is also completely unnecessary. Get back on-topic or this will be locked.

[tovaris]

Religious ceramony is not somethkng that should be done in public, nor is it something that should be ačowed into instituts of public natire, sush as schools.

[AgentHomo]

Shouldn't be allowed at all!!!even if someone wants to pray to themselves, it shouldn't be allowed. It's a distraction and can be considered provoking offense to other students with different faiths or lack thereof. School is for learning, not praying or practising religious beliefs. No prayer at all while at school!

[CosmicNoodle]

Shouldn't be allowed at all!!!even if someone wants to pray to themselves, it shouldn't be allowed. It's a distraction and can be considered provoking offense to other students with different faiths or lack thereof. School is for learning, not praying or practising religious beliefs. No prayer at all while at school!

(NOT TRYING TO START A SHIT STORM) But I find it kind of funny that theone of the only people here who wants it outright banned is gay, big suprise (I dont blame you, I almost agree)

So, it still provokes people if it is done in say, a private room, outside of lesson times, and when it's not even mentioned? Even that should be banned?? That just seems close minded, what of peoples right to religious freedom?

[Vlerchan]

It's a distraction and can be considered provoking offense to other students with different faiths or lack thereof.
If someone is provoked by someone else preying then I've literally no sympathy for them.

I would also appreciate if you expanded on it being a distraction.

[Gamma Male]

Shouldn't be allowed at all!!!even if someone wants to pray to themselves, it shouldn't be allowed. It's a distraction and can be considered provoking offense to other students with different faiths or lack thereof. School is for learning, not praying or practising religious beliefs. No prayer at all while at school!

Okay. Let's say someone is at lunch, sitting at the table with their food. Before they eat they decide they wanna do a quick prayer. They bow their head slightly, close their eyes, and quietly pray for a few seconds.

How would you suggest they be disciplined for this heinous and offensive act of barbarity? :lol:

[Ben_Frost]

The school I went to had a rule that everyday morning we'd assemble outside the classrooms in rows, and one of us would pray over the microphone. Even being Christian I found that to be unnecessary and quite annoying. It's no use forcing students to pray, especially considering non believing students being forced to pray to a god they don't believe in. It just makes the rest of us christians look bad.

[Babiole]

If it's a religious school (such as a Christian, Jewish, or Islamic school) then I think it's fine. Otherwise, no.

[CosmicNoodle]

If it's a religious school (such as a Christian, Jewish, or Islamic school) then I think it's fine. Otherwise, no.

What o the religious students who have no optiuon but to go to a none religious school, or vice versa?

[AussieBoi98]

I think if you chose to go to a catholic or christian school then you should if not then i thinks its your own decision.

[CosmicNoodle]

I think if you chose to go to a catholic or christian school then you should if not then i thinks its your own decision.

Second time I've had to say this in this thread now.

What of people who CAN'T go to a christian school and have no other option, what of them? Fuck 'em? Take away there right to religious freedom?

[AussieBoi98]

Second time I've had to say this in this thread now.

What of people who CAN'T go to a christian school and have no other option, what of them? Fuck 'em? Take away there right to religious freedom?

I see what you mean but like i said if you don't then its up to you if you want to pray in public, but unfortunately id think people who do would just get bullied by other students so it is pretty stuffed, personally i don't think it should cost money to go to a christian/catholic school just because they focus on religion because most people can't afford it, private schools should be the only ones that charge money but it is what it is :(

[dakeep18]

it definitely should not! first amendment states freedom to practice ones own religion and that would not be exercised if this happened

[Miserabilia]

it definitely should not! first amendment states freedom to practice ones own religion and that would not be exercised if this happened

True. Either the first amendment needs to be altered or children should be able to pray wherever whenever they want.

[Typhlosion]

True. Either the first amendment needs to be altered or children should be able to pray wherever whenever they want.

Wait. Has there ever been a case where a kid was denied of praying in class?

[Miserabilia]

Wait. Has there ever been a case where a kid was denied of praying in class?

I certainly hope not but I thought that was what this thread was about :lol:

[SpikeCartoon]

Yes, I think it should be allowed. However, it definitely shouldn't be mandatory. If a student or teacher wants to pray, they should be able to as long as they don't disrupt class. However, if it's going to cause a disturbance by getting up, praying out loud, etc. it shouldn't be allowed.

[Human]

Schools shouldn't pander for every religion but if a person wishes to pray, then they shouldn't be prevented from doing so

[Ridonks_CB]

As long as the student isn't disturbing the class, then I believe they should be allowed to pray in public schools. It should be an individual thing though, not something where the teacher will need to remind you, or anything mandatory.

[Microcosm]

:locked:

Thread has been bumped. Please refrain from posting in threads that have been inactive for more than two months.