How far should openness about sex go?

[Gamma Male]

Most of us here are fairly cosmopolitan and liberal in our social views and I think we all agree that people should generally be more open about it.

But exactly how far should the openness go?



Here's what I would like to see in my ideal society, and it would be something akin to ancient Athens.(greece)

Sex would no longer be at all taboo whatsoever. Public nudity would be fully legal and so would public sex. Sex shows and adolescent experimentation would all be acceptable public behaviors.

Instead of straight, everyone would be assumed bisexual by default. Sex would once again be used as a bonding exercise in schools and the military.

Children would no longer be shunned away from and hidden from sex. They would see and hear about it in their daily lived and think absolutely nothing of it since the taboo would be gone. I do not believe this would be at all harmful to the children. Society operated more or less like this for thousands of years before the rise of Abrahamic religion.

It would be common in school of all ages for people to casually pleasure one another.


I believe there would be numerous benefits to a society like this and that the only reason we have unnaturally assigned shame to acts of public sex is because of Christianity.


One of the benefits I mentioned would be increased military and school effectiveness. Sex was used as a bonding exercise between men in the military in ancient Athens and Rome and Sparta and it worked.


The same concept was used to strengthen bonds in the academics. Students and teachers would regularly and casually have sex with one another and the level of scientific and mathematical literacy achieved in ancient greece is astounding for a society in that era.

Another benefit would be that mental and emotional disorders and problems associated with seeing sex at a young age would disappear.

And of course another benefit would be acceptance of lgbt people.

And another benefit, this one very important, would be the reduction of low self confidence and bodily image disorders. This is seen with people who grow up in nudist camps all the time. If everybody's naked often, you know what people really look like and know that the perfect photoshopped images you see in magazines don't represent most people.



Now just to be clearing I'm not condoning sex in public or anything, but saying that if the stigma were removed it would be harmful to absolutely nobody.

Basically, I believe that we should completely eliminate almost all stigmas and taboos surrounding sex and be extremely open about it.

What do you think? Should we be more or less open about sex? How far should we go? What do you believe would be the main societal benefits of being more or less open about sex?

Please try to keep the discussion civil and factual at all times. This is a serious discussion.

[CosmicNoodle]

[QUOTE=Gamma Male;2941272]
Basically, I believe that we should completely eliminate almost all stigmas and taboos surrounding sex and be extremely open about it.

Yep, it discusts me that it's such a taboo topic, it really shouldnt be, I dont think going back to the state of anchient romans or greeks would eb afantastic idea, but I do think public nudity and so on and so forth should be compleatly legal.

[TheN3rdyOutcast]

Sounds interesting to say the least. I agree with you in a way, as long as the concept of protection, and safe sex aren't thrown completely out the window. Even if not that open, I'd like to see society get more open about sex, without society being one big orgy all the time, (only most of the time.)

[Horatio Nelson]

I really want to live in your utopia. It sounds frickin' awesome!


I do think we should be more open about sex, I believe it would really help to lower STD levels if there was real sexual education going on.

[jordanhardy]

I want to have bisexual sex orgys in the street! That sounds awesome

[Vlerchan]

Here's what I would like to see in my ideal society, and it would be something akin to ancient Athens.(greece)
If you can find evidence that children (at school) casually pleasured each other then I'd love to see it.

If you can find evidence that men and woman engaged in public sex unopposed then I'd love to see it.

If you can find any evidence that everyone presumed everyone else was bisexual then I'd love to see it.

---

It should be noted that I think that Athenian customs in regards to relationship values etc. were pretty disgusting.

... that the only reason we have unnaturally assigned shame to acts of public sex is because of Christianity.
I doubt this is true.

Lots of non-Christians societies never reached your utopia.

Sex was used as a bonding exercise between men in the military in ancient Athens and Rome and Sparta and it worked.
I can't imagine sex being as powerful an emotional-bonding exercise if it was given so freely.

In terms of the Spartans it was also more bonding as a collective and not so much as individual-to-individual.

Students and teachers would regularly and casually have sex with one another and the level of scientific and mathematical literacy achieved in ancient greece is astounding for a society in that era.
And this is because teachers had sex with their students right?

And of course another benefit would be acceptance of lgbt people.
I promise you we'll normalise gayness long before we normalise sexual-based hedonism.

And another benefit, this one very important, would be the reduction of low self confidence and bodily image disorders.
I'd imagine I'd still only be aiming to have sex with the attractive girls.

The fact that I'd be aiming to this means that body issues with still have the potential to exist.

What do you think?
I want LGBTs to be accepted. I wouldn't mind if we were more open about sex.

I don't think it's a bad thing that sexual relations between adults are largely private. I don't see who that hurts either.

[CosmicNoodle]

I want LGBTs to be accepted. I wouldn't mind if we were more open about sex.

I don't think it's a bad thing that sexual relations between adults are largely private. I don't see who that hurts either.

Yep, most people just want LGBT to be accepted, thanfully, very soon the old, white, male republicans will die of old age and hopefully politics will change slightly.

It's not bad that they are private, but we really need to be more open about things, don't ya think? I mean come on, we refuse to even consider educating kids about sex untill as late as possible, we wate till they actually start to develop befor even mentionin it, doen't that seem weird? Come on, it's hpw they where created and we see it as a horrible things to even consider talking to a child about? Isn't it better toi educate people at a young age so that they are ready for it when they grow up? So that this hole sex/puberty/relationships thing isn't suddenly thrust upon them one day at the age of 11,

[JamesSuperBoy]

Basically, I believe that we should completely eliminate almost all stigmas and taboos surrounding sex and be extremely open about it.

.

Almost all stigmas - what stigma and taboos do you propose to keep?

[Gamma Male]

Almost all stigmas - what stigma and taboos do you propose to keep?

Well you know, rape should remain illegal.
If you can find evidence that children (at school) casually pleasured each other then I'd love to see it.
Well, I'm not sure about children. It mostly started around 12 / 13 years old.
http://www.livius.org/ho-hz/homosexuality/homosexuality.html

If you can find evidence that men and woman engaged in public sex unopposed then I'd love to see it.
It's common knowledge. There are thousands of writings on the subject.

If you can find any evidence that everyone presumed everyone else was bisexual then I'd love to see it.

The ancient Greeks had no words for "gay" or "straight". Again, this is common knowledge.
The ancient Greeks did not conceive of*sexual orientation*as a social identifier as modern Western societies have done. Greek society did not distinguish sexual desire or behavior by the gender of the participants, but rather by the role that each participant played in the sex act, that of active penetrator or passive penetrated.[5]
---

[Quoye] It should be noted that I think that Athenian customs in regards to relationship values etc. were pretty disgusting.[/quote]
Well, to each his own. I think they were wonderful.


I doubt this is true.

Lots of non-Christians societies never reached your utopia.
It isn't true in all cases but Europe was certainly much more open about sexuality before the rise of Christianity.


I can't imagine sex being as powerful an emotional-bonding exercise if it was given so freely.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_the_militaries_of_ancient_Greece
Homosexuality in the militaries of ancient Greece*was regarded as contributing tomorale.[1]*Although the primary example is the*Sacred Band of Thebes, a unit said to have been formed of same-sex couples, theSpartan tradition of military heroism*has also been explained in light of strong emotional bonds resulting from homosexual relationships.[2]*Various ancient Greek sources record incidents of courage in battle and interpret them as motivated by homoerotic bonds.

In terms of the Spartans it was also more bonding as a collective and not so much as individual-to-individual.
What?

And this is because teachers had sex with their students right?

Well, it was primarily between pubescent males of 12-14 and young bearded adults of 17+. It did seem to work pretty well though.
I promise you we'll normalise gayness long before we normalise sexual-based hedonism.
Probably.


I'd imagine I'd still only be aiming to have sex with the attractive girls.

The fact that I'd be aiming to this means that body issues with still have the potential to exist.
I said they would be reduced not eliminated, and I have evidence to back that up. Studies have shown that teenagers who grow up in nudist colonies have higher rates of self esteem and lower rates of bodily image disorders.
http://www.examiner.com/article/self-confidence-boosting-benefits-of-nudism


I want LGBTs to be accepted. I wouldn't mind if we were more open about sex.

I don't think it's a bad thing that sexual relations between adults are largely private. I don't see who that hurts either.

You could always be private and monogamous if you want. But I see absolutely no good reason a society based on sexual openness wouldn't work.

[Miserabilia]

That's a very .. interesting.. idea of modern civilization :P
But who knows, it might be an accurate one, right?
Anyway, I think more sexual and bodily openess is VERY important in society.
I don't want to sound to pessimestic and extreme, but prudeness leads to and in a way is also the result of having less children.
The pruder the country, the less children per person. I think this could lead to population decreasing immensely and a collapse in society's structure.

I don't know if we can go as overboard as your OP.
I definetly think we need to loosen up on
-cencorship
-sex paranoia
-sex hypocricy
-prudeness
-nakedness paranoia

I think promoting openess of the body more would be a poitive influence on society, but to the level you described would be a slow transition, that would not go very smoothly, especialy with religious factors.

I definetly aggree with what you said on body image.

[Vlerchan]

Well, I'm not sure about children. It mostly started around 12 / 13 years old.
I would have appreciated if you had extracted the relevant information. It just makes it easier.

I presume you mean this though:

There are many pictures of boys courting boys, boys playing sexual games, and adult men having intercourse. Yet, the latter was probably unusual or not spoken about, because the passive partner (pathikos) was -as we have already seen- subject to ridicule.

It's not exactly supporting your claim that boys got other boys off in class. It supports a claim however than homosexual relations between boys existed too.

---

I should also point out that I find pedastry - a fancy term for peadophilic man-boy sex - is one of those reprehensible parts of Greek sexual culture. It's true that children did sometimes enjoy it. I doesn't defeat the idea that the children's place in the relationship is supposed to be degrading - and the acts existed to reinforce the masculinism of adult Greek males.

It's common knowledge. There are thousands of writings on the subject.
I don't read into the sex lives of Greek people often.

I'd appreciate a source. If just to sate my own personal interest as much to prove a point.

The ancient Greeks had no words for "gay" or "straight". Again, this is common knowledge.
I don't speak Greek or Ancient Greek.

This also doesn't prove your point. Them not bothering to make a distinction doesn't prove that they took this approach. I think it was more that adult male men just didn't care whether their partner enjoyed it or not. You'll note that there aren't a huge amount of instances of equal partnerships depicted, largely because the Greek perception of male-male sex meant it was an inherently unequal engagement.

---

I wonder though how Plato managed to argue against homosexuality in his writings if there was no word to describe those who preferred sexual relations with their own sex.

Well, to each his own. I think they were wonderful.
Rape was common in Ancient Greece and seen by men as a "right of domination" by Greek men ... To the common man, they usually staked out water wells and then raped the women when they went to get water. It was also common to rape prostitutes, slaves, and their own wives.

http://www.bigeye.com/sexeducation/ancientgreece.html

It isn't true in all cases but Europe was certainly much more open about sexuality before the rise of Christianity.
Right. So as I said: it's not all down to Christianity.

What?
It's first notable that the Sacred Band of Thebes was not a Spartan unit.

My point was that when the Spartans practiced homosexuality it was more wholistic in orientation: You loved your group, who you were prepared to die for, and not just the man next to you, because you bonded as a group and not just individually.

It should also be noted that nothing you provided defeated the pointed that freely given sex is less useful as a bonding mechanism. I wasn't actually aware that couple relations where more common though even in instances where such strong monogamous foundations weren't in existence it was still a useful tool for groups that were wholistic in their orientation.

I accept that it was a decent bonding mechanism regardless. It's impossible to say how strong it would be in such a context given that I'm sure Spartan couples etc. did more than just have sex with each other. It should be noted though that I was referring more so to instances of wide-scale promiscuity, which connects to my admission to not knowing that monogamy was so big amongst units.

Well, it was primarily between pubescent males of 12-14 and young bearded adults of 17+. It did seem to work pretty well though.
I'm still not sure why you believe that inter-class relationships led to a greater academic performance for the Greeks.

Can you point to any similar examples where such occurred? We live in a society where it's not uncommon for students to sleep with their classmates. Do you believe that these students do better in school? Would you have evidence to support this claim.

Studies have shown that teenagers who grow up in nudist colonies have higher rates of self esteem and lower rates of bodily image disorders.
I actually misread that point. I agree with what you're saying.

But I see absolutely no good reason a society based on sexual openness wouldn't work.

I don't see a problem with extreme sexual openness in itself - it should be noted that I've never read studies on the issue. It's that I don't see how it would benefit society to break down the barrier between public and private. Especially when the actual transition would be rocky.

In terms of why monogamy is better:

Overall founding of this results show that children of third and fourth grades have differences in terms of their behavioral tendencies. This result resembles Deluty (1979; 1981)‟s founding. Those behavioral tendencies mainly result from family and child interactions (Deluty, 2004; Deluty and Usakli 2009).

As most researches founding indicate that aggressiveness, submissiveness, loneliness, stress, depression, guiltiness, tendency to crime are basic and common problems of single parent children (Baris & Garrity, 1988; Johnston & Roseby, 1997; Wallerstein & Blakeslee, 2003; O‟Rourke & Worzbyt, 1996).

http://www.ijhssnet.com/journals/Vol_3_No_8_Special_Issue_April_2013/26.pdf

It's been documented that strong foundations lead to better well-being among children.

---

On a side note, I know I'm going to love phuckphace's response to this question.

[asrlem]

It shouldnt be bad because as you said it would help remove the low self esteem about your body because i know some people(i for one) do not like my bodily image. Also i think that it would reduce crime and instead of having guns and stuff of mass destruction then it would be sex... And sex is more harmless than guns and violence. That is why i think that Europe and those countries have less crime. Its because they dont promote guns and most people dont use them as in America where there are guns everywhere on the news. So to sum it up. Less crime and less low self esteem.

[James Dean]

It should be open enough so that nobody is offended, and at the same time people are educated. I think sex education needs to be brought up more and it could solve many issues that come up. Teen pregnancy, stds, and such have to be tackled more so that they aren't seen as problems. In the right time though.

People are gonna see what they see on tv anyways so we can't help that, but to me that's a negative way of learning about sex.

[DeadEyes]

Of course, I voted that we should be more open about it and I was expecting it to be the most popular choice, but well, as long as no minors are around, I wouldn't really be bothered by the possibility of the first choice.

[phuckphace]

lmao at believing that Ancient Greece was a 24/7 gay orgy :lol3:

if you could travel back in time to Ancient Greece and speak with some of the locals, you'd find that social attitudes toward homosexuality were very stratified by social class. if you asked a member of the Hellenic 1% what he thought of men screwing boys, he'd be indifferent if not sympathetic. but if you then went out into the countryside and posed the same question to Georgios the redneck, he'd likely respond with disgust and a threat of violence. in other words, homosexuality was a fashionable vice among Greece's decadent and degenerate elite, while normal everyday people with close familial ties viewed it with contempt and stuck to ye olde man/woman monogamy (sorry, it's a European thing)

[ksdnfkfr]

Students and teachers would regularly and casually have sex with one another

Um what? This is like "lets make pedophilia socially acceptable". I mean so like a 50 year old kindergarten teacher having sex with twenty 5 year old students? I mean if there's supposed to be no boundaries you can come up with all kinds of scenarios. How about family orgies including the family dog. No sarcasm intended.

[PinkFloyd]

Okay, I know this is ROTW and all, but the first poll option made me actually burst out laughing.


As far as my viewpoint on this topic goes, I do agree that we should be more open about sex, but it's still a personal topic and that should be respected.

[Gamma Male]

lmao at believing that Ancient Greece was a 24/7 gay orgy :lol3:

if you could travel back in time to Ancient Greece and speak with some of the locals, you'd find that social attitudes toward homosexuality were very stratified by social class. if you asked a member of the Hellenic 1% what he thought of men screwing boys, he'd be indifferent if not sympathetic. but if you then went out into the countryside and posed the same question to Georgios the redneck, he'd likely respond with disgust and a threat of violence. in other words, homosexuality was a fashionable vice among Greece's decadent and degenerate elite, while normal everyday people with close familial ties viewed it with contempt and stuck to ye olde man/woman monogamy (sorry, it's a European thing)

Sex with prepubescent children was not at all common or accepted in ancient greece, not even in the upper class.

And I'm not basing this entirely on ancient greece. All I'm saying is that the taboo surrounding sex is irrational and my ideal society would be one where sex is just another recreational bonding activity, with no stigma. That's it. If that makes me a hedonistic freak then so be it. But other than certain sanitary issues which can be dealt with easily, there is absolutely no reason causal sex in public should be looked down upon. That's all I'm saying.

Um what? This is like "lets make pedophilia socially acceptable". I mean so like a 50 year old kindergarten teacher having sex with twenty 5 year old students? I mean if there's supposed to be no boundaries you can come up with all kinds of scenarios. How about family orgies including the family dog. No sarcasm intended.

I was talking more about the 13-20ish age range. When I said students I never meant children.

[DeadEyes]

I was talking more about the 13-20ish age range. When I said students I never meant children.

Technically, 13 years olds are children.

[ksdnfkfr]

I was talking more about the 13-20ish age range. When I said students I never meant children.

Okay guess I got carried away. Still, don't think it would be healthy or beneficial if the student was 13-17. Also if a certain period of time, in one are area of the world, throughout all of world history, is the only example, then that would seem to indicate most of the world throughout history hasn't considered it a good idea.

[Lovelife090994]

We're open enough about sex. Things are sex, sex, sex, it's crazier than ever. Music is full of sexual sex-crazed artists, and sex is not something you discuss out loud on a speaker. Sex is taboo for a reason. Like in the Victorian age it was about how you carry yourself. Now that age was by far prudish, overbearing, and way too uptight, but they got one thing right; modesty. Never sate yourself by baring all. We are so open now on things that the lines of laws, nature, and society are blurring to a smear.

[Miserabilia]

the lines of laws, nature, and society are blurring to a smear.

I don't really see a problem with this.
If we focus more on nature and be less open about our own bodies, there's no reason to seewhy that would have a negative effect on our bodies.

I mean, in this age of science, we teach our children the tiny organisms that make up their skin, the names of the organs inside of them and how they work, but not about something as simply as their genitalia?

[Lovelife090994]

I don't really see a problem with this.
If we focus more on nature and be less open about our own bodies, there's no reason to seewhy that would have a negative effect on our bodies.

I mean, in this age of science, we teach our children the tiny organisms that make up their skin, the names of the organs inside of them and how they work, but not about something as simply as their genitalia?

It's what people do with their genitalia that's bad. You seem to want everyone to be naked. If you are nudist, be that but not in public. Laws are there to keep things in order. The world is coming out of order.

[Vlerchan]

What's "order"?

[Christen]

we all should be very open about it as we are all sexual beings.
as long as we don't involve life of others anyone should do what pleases him/her/them
if they want sex in the park - hey why not as long they don't do it where kids play.
live and let live.

[Miserabilia]

It's what people do with their genitalia that's bad.

Hm okay?

You seem to want everyone to be naked.

No, quite different; I want people to not care. I want people to dress when they need to, and be naked when they want to; I don't want there to be shock or disgust at the naked human body.
I wish people were less prude and more accepting of the bodies we were "blessed" with.
I find doing otherwise offensive to my own good health.

[Lovelife090994]

Hm okay?



No, quite different; I want people to not care. I want people to dress when they need to, and be naked when they want to; I don't want there to be shock or disgust at the naked human body.
I wish people were less prude and more accepting of the bodies we were "blessed" with.
I find doing otherwise offensive to my own good health.

I hate my own body and being naked and I'm not unhealthy. Nudity and public shouldn't mix. Sex in public shouldn't happen?

[Miserabilia]

I hate my own body and being naked

I kind of aggree, I wouldn't want to walk around nude. But I think we should be less prude and if people want to be nude they can. I think we need to embrace our bodies; it's okay to wear clothes, but we need to face that what's underneath them still exists.



Sex in public shouldn't happen?

Claim followed by questionmark?

[Lovelife090994]

I kind of aggree, I wouldn't want to walk around nude. But I think we should be less prude and if people want to be nude they can. I think we need to embrace our bodies; it's okay to wear clothes, but we need to face that what's underneath them still exists.





Claim followed by questionmark?

Typo, but you can answer it if you want.

[Miserabilia]

Typo, but you can answer it if you want.

Do you have a reason why sex in public shouldn't happen that is not circulary based on your morals?

[Lovelife090994]

Do you have a reason why sex in public shouldn't happen that is not circulary based on your morals?

You don't get to dictate how I can and cannot answer. And sex in public, the phrase alone should not be a reality. Think about it. Do you really think we should let people have sex in public?

[Miserabilia]

You don't get to dictate how I can and cannot answer.
I'm saying that using a circular or pointless argument will convince absolutely no one and I can't even remotely take it seriously.

And sex in public, the phrase alone should not be a reality. Think about it. Do you really think we should let people have sex in public?

That's a moral argument which is exactly what I was hoping we could evade. "I mean, just think about it" is not an argument.

Do you really think we should let people have sex in public?

I'm neutral on it. Do you have a reaosn people should not?

[Lovelife090994]

I'm saying that using a circular or pointless argument will convince absolutely no one and I can't even remotely take it seriously.



That's a moral argument which is exactly what I was hoping we could evade. "I mean, just think about it" is not an argument.



I'm neutral on it. Do you have a reaosn people should not?

Eww... Public sex violates the rights and health of those around you. No one should have to see that outside their house.

[Miserabilia]

Eww...
moral/opinion

Public sex violates the rights and health of those around you.

If I see two naked people having sex on the streets right now, how does that effect my
-rights
-health

No one should have to see that outside their house.

morals/opinion

[ksdnfkfr]

One other note on the teacher and student having sex that came up on another forum. A problem I see with even a teacher and an adult student having a sexual relationship is, would that effect how that teacher graded that student? And also a student bribing a teacher with sex, or a teacher promising a better grade for sex. I think this applies to boss and employee as well for more pay.

[Lovelife090994]

moral/opinion



If I see two naked people having sex on the streets right now, how does that effect my
-rights
-health



morals/opinion

You want sex in public? It is dirty (literally) sex causes health risks and kids are out in public. Sex must never be allowed in public. We are not animals. We have morals (some of us) and we know better. Control your hormones. Sex in public also tells people you think are above the law by displaying yourself. There are laws against indecent exposure.

[Vlerchan]

morals/opinion
It's impossible to make an argument about human behaviour without implicating morals/opinion at some level.

It's impossible to make normative statements in general without implicating the above.

[Miserabilia]

It's impossible to make an argument about human behaviour without implicating morals/opinion at some level.

It's impossible to make normative statements in general without implicating the above.

I'm not saying that's not true, and I aggreee that my choice of words was a bit poor.
However I was hoping to see an argument that was not circular as
"It's bad because it's dirty"
"ew"
"It's dirty because it's disgusting"
"Just think about it, it's dirty and bad"
I was hoping something with a little more content instead of saying it's x because it is x.


You want sex in public? It is dirty (literally) sex causes health risks and kids are out in public.

Sex causes health risks.
Seeing someone have sex doesn't cause health risks.
I can't catch an std from going down the street and seeing naked people.


Sex must never be allowed in public. We are not animals.

Technicaly we are, atleast by biological definition.
Again, do you have a specific reason why is shouldn't be allowed.


We have morals (some of us) and we know better. Control your hormones. Sex in public also tells people you think are above the law by displaying yourself. There are laws against indecent exposure.

That doesn't make any sense. The OP was posting a hypothetical situation in which it was legal and normal to have sex and public nudity.
Therefore it would not be against the law.
The law is not an argument against public sex, it simply states that we are currently not allowed to have it.

[Typhlosion]

Openness about sex has already gone too far: Lovelife090994 (http://www.virtualteen.org/forums/member.php?u=69061), Typhlosion (http://www.virtualteen.org/forums/member.php?u=97178)Nobody else, just us? :lol3:

I have no objective reasoning behind my opinion. I believe that our sexual relationships are supposed to be more intimate than what's going on today. All his openness is foreign to me and my mind. *shrugs*

[Vlerchan]

I believe that our sexual relationships are supposed to be more intimate than what's going on today.
I agree with this statement.

It's just that I a) only care about my own relationships and b) think it's still possible to hold such relationships within the context of a more open society.

[Gamma Male]

and b) think it's still possible to hold such relationships within the context of a more open society.

Exactly.

This may surprise you, buy I actually do plan on getting married in a monogamous and intimate relationship someday. That isn't really what this thread is about. If you want to only have monogamous loving relationships in a society extremely open about sex nothing would be stopping you. If you want to be extremely open and polygamous in our current society you'll face ridicule and jail time for public nudity. That is unfair.

[Vlerchan]

If you want to only have monogamous loving relationships in a society extremely open about sex nothing would be stopping you.
Except the likelihood that due to the changes in societal norms people might not be so responsive to the idea of a non-exhibitionist, monogamous relationship - in the same vein as how people aren't so responsive to the idea of no-sex-till-marriage relationships these days.

[phuckphace]

people who object to openness about sex do so because they fear normalization of degenerate behavior, not because seeing someone having sex in public physically burns their retinas. since almost any behavior will become normalized if it is tolerated, it's a perfectly rational concern. take porn for example, what was once considered hardcore porn has become normalized as regular porn, and quite a bit of what was once softcore porn isn't considered porn at all. half of the magazines on the rack at my job would've been sold at some seedy underground porn shop when my grandma was in high school.

nobody actually wants full-bore normalization of sexuality whether they want to admit it or not, but it's up to us prudes to take on the thankless job of making sure our house of cards stays standing another minute

[Miserabilia]

people who object to openness about sex do so because they fear normalization of degenerate behavior, not because seeing someone having sex in public physically burns their retinas. since almost any behavior will become normalized if it is tolerated, it's a perfectly rational concern. take porn for example, what was once considered hardcore porn has become normalized as regular porn, and quite a bit of what was once softcore porn isn't considered porn at all. half of the magazines on the rack at my job would've been sold at some seedy underground porn shop when my grandma was in high school.

nobody actually wants full-bore normalization of sexuality whether they want to admit it or not, but it's up to us prudes to take on the thankless job of making sure our house of cards stays standing another minute

You're describing a process of change and then assuming that somehow prooves that it's wrong.

[Babiole]

I personally think we're too open about sex. I think this openness (i.e. having multiple sex partners at once) is helping spread STDs.

[ethana512]

Instead of straight, everyone would be assumed bisexual by default.

Idk about the rest of this stuff but I wish this were true. It would be better if people could like who they wanted and it wouldn't be a big deal.

[riverboy]

It's a personal thing to each one and it should be as open as long as the person next to you isn't offended.

[darthearth]

Ok, I don't have time to look at all the responses, but I do have a question. I like the idea of the OP, but will that kind of "openness" take away from the erotic nature of sex? Like if it were so commonplace, wouldn't it lose some of its character?

[ethana512]

One other note on the teacher and student having sex that came up on another forum. A problem I see with even a teacher and an adult student having a sexual relationship is, would that effect how that teacher graded that student? And also a student bribing a teacher with sex, or a teacher promising a better grade for sex. I think this applies to boss and employee as well for more pay.

I thought about this too. It could be a real problem. It wouldn't be fair bc the people who had the most sex would have advantages.

[Cangirl]

Yeah i can see a lot of good things for being way more open about bodies and sex. But safe sex to though for sure. But would it make it less special ?

[Miserabilia]

Ok, I don't have time to look at all the responses, but I do have a question. I like the idea of the OP, but will that kind of "openness" take away from the erotic nature of sex? Like if it were so commonplace, wouldn't it lose some of its character?

It's an important question. I think the best way we can answer this, is what is eroticism now?
Surely, people's first times are good but they still enjoy sex after even a hunderd partners.
Right now, we asociate nudity with eroticism, but this is just a result of being dressed for this long; we would probably eventualy stop asscociating nudeness with arousal/sex/eroticism.

[RRay99]

Think in North America, we have a double standard when it comes to sex that comes from our insecurities. Things like anal sex or group sex are still very taboo, but yet watch a sitcom like Two and a Half Men and it glorifies sex and threesomes - a man and two girls of course. IMHO whatever happens between consenting individuals is up to them. However, I think as a society we have a hard time separating what someone likes sexually from who they are.

[BlackParadePixie]

We should be more open about it...not so much what we see or do, but talking about it...being honest about it. Teaching people about what sex is, instead of shoving it away and pretending its a bad thing.

I think many people who suffer from various forms of sexual dysfunction do so because they were taught from a young age that sex is dirty or bad. They didn't grow up understanding what a beautiful thing it can be and how much pleasure your own body can bring you.

[thatcountrykid]

Woah woah woah. A bonding exercise in schools and the military? All due respect but what the fuck!! How is that right? Honestly I didnt read the rest because I was shocked at that alone.

[Miserabilia]

Woah woah woah. A bonding exercise in schools and the military? All due respect but what the fuck!! How is that right? Honestly I didnt read the rest because I was shocked at that alone.

I think you're misinterperting it. I don't think that means that military men will be forced to do each other as part of their military training, but that they would openly do so themselves which would creates more bonding amongst them. Wouldn't that be benificial to them?

[phuckphace]

You're describing a process of change and then assuming that somehow prooves that it's wrong.

I didn't use the word "wrong" anywhere. I described a real example of a slippery slope working just as it was predicted to. I object to sexual permissiveness on rational grounds in that sexuality is psychologically harmful when misused. I don't know how much more clear I can make it that there are reasons other than BIBLE SAYS SO to oppose the idea of excessive sexual permissiveness.

I just don't get why you edgy kids have to automatically go full orgy mode with your social views as though it's some kind of obligation because you're irreligious. common sense would tell you that there is likely a rational foundation for religious restrictions on behavior, especially sexual behavior (there is).

[thatcountrykid]

I think you're misinterperting it. I don't think that means that military men will be forced to do each other as part of their military training, but that they would openly do so themselves which would creates more bonding amongst them. Wouldn't that be benificial to them?

I can't say I would consider it benificial. I'm more concerned about him saying it should be in schools?

[Human]

I think sex should be something personal really, what you do in your bedroom is up to you but I don't want to see anyone having sex in the street really. Don't have a problem with public nudity though.