Questions for all y'all religious folk.

[CosmicNoodle]

I shall start off by saying I in no way mean to offend, or start yet another atheist vs religious argument, I just want answers, so people, please don't argue, OK?

I'm an atheist, simple, I don't believe in a devine creator, but some people do and for the most part I'm cool with that, but it leads me to have a few questions. And for this I will be focusing on Christianity for the most part.
Do you actually believe? That's a question that bigus me. Do you really believe it? That the earth was created in 7 days, that woman was forged from the rib of a naked guy, in evil talking snakes, to me it sounds like a fairy tail, but do you actually believe in all of it? Word for word?
And that leads me on to another question that bugus me. This one is aimed at Christians who cherry pick, for instance will aknowlege the new testiment yet ignore the old one, because obviously god just changed his mind (a topic in itself that annoys me). Do you really believe in a "loving" creator that loves each and every one of us, yet will send you to suffer the most excruciating pain imagen able for all eternity for being gay, or simply not believing. That's a point...he created you, apparently, so he must be the one who created you, and decided you don't believe, but punishes you for it...I'm off on some what of a tangent.

To sum it , my main questions are, so you really believe in all of it? All the magical story's and what not? Amd for the people that do so, how do you justify cherry picking the parts of the religion you want to follow, as if its a buffet. Like I said I don't really mean to offend, but if I have, deal with it.

[Ticagirl]

Q: Do you actually believe? That's a question that bigus me. Do you really believe it? That the earth was created in 7 days, that woman was forged from the rib of a naked guy, in evil talking snakes, to me it sounds like a fairy tail, but do you actually believe in all of it? Word for word?

A: As a Christian I believe that it is true, but not important. There are lots of Christians out there who do believe in evolution, and that's okay. Why? Christianity isn't about how the world was made. If it were, it would be a theory, not a religion. Nothing matters unless you believe Christ saved you from your sins and that you try to live out your life in honor of him.

Q: And that leads me on to another question that bugus me. This one is aimed at Christians who cherry pick, for instance will aknowlege the new testiment yet ignore the old one, because obviously god just changed his mind (a topic in itself that annoys me). Do you really believe in a "loving" creator that loves each and every one of us, yet will send you to suffer the most excruciating pain imagen able for all eternity for being gay, or simply not believing. That's a point...he created you, apparently, so he must be the one who created you, and decided you don't believe, but punishes you for it...I'm off on some what of a tangent.

A: My answer to this is that God does not create misery. God is the created of good. Now, you might be thinking to yourself, well if God didn't create misery, then why does it exist? Well, the thing is God gave us a choice. He created mankind because he wanted us to experience paradise and great love. He created the world perfectly. He was with us and we were with him and it was harmony. But in order for us to experience true love, God gave us the ability to have a choice, because if we didn't, we would be like robots, and the love would be untrue. Unfortunately, satan convinced Adam and Eve to choose sin. If they hadn't of made the decision, we'd still be in paradise. So basically, God did not bring pain, we brought it on ourselves. So like I said, how god gave us the ability to make a choice, we still have that ability. Some choose to believe in him, and others don't. God loves you so much it's uncomprehendable. He sent Jesus to save us from the sin we brought upon ourselves because he wanted us to be able to make the choice to be with him again. That's pure love. He loves you whether you're straight, gay, Athiest or Christian. He just wants you to make the choice to be with him in paradise.

Q: To sum it , my main questions are, so you really believe in all of it? All the magical story's and what not? Amd for the people that do so, how do you justify cherry picking the parts of the religion you want to follow, as if its a buffet. Like I said I don't really mean to offend, but if I have, deal with it.

A: I believe, yes. It sounds crazy believe me. I'm Christian and sometimes I'm like, wow, this is some crazy stuff. But yes I believe in it. God is great, and big and uncomprehendable, explaining why many do not believe in him, because he's far past our human brains to understand how there's this great power bigger than what we see. I look at the world. The mountains, stars, nebulas, the sun, and people say it all happened by chance. Now I'm not saying the Big Bang never happened or whatever, I just believe that there had to be a creator who created everything using that. How can it just happen from nothing? Cells theory explains that cells can only come from other cells. How can a cell come from nothing? (Not looking for a debate I am simply stating my thoughts) I choose to believe there is a creator who made the first cell. People may say, well who made god then? God has always been, and will forever be there. He is just god. Like I said before, our human minds cannot comprehend how this can be. I cannot comprehend it and no person will ever be able to. Alright now that I am finished with the more sciency part, I will talk about the rules and stuff. The bible is like a guideline for life. It was written by the Israelites (influenced by god) and their manners in writing were very metaphorical, explaining the reason why some things are very exaggerated, and us taking them literally and many being appalled by it. There are actually debates within the Christian community about what somethings in the bible actually mean and so forth. To me, these parts were meant to be confusing to leave freedom to the believer. So to many Christians who take it literally, gay marriage is a sin, but to me, I think god just wants a marriage that is prosperous and that will honor him, so I believe that if you are truly gay, gay marriage is ok. There's just different views about the bible. Ps I just wanted to say a little something on the side. Sinning is not what gets you to hell. Not believing in god what gets you there. It's not gods fault considering we technically made the choice to condemn ourselves. So he just gives us the choice to go to heaven. Just in case you were confused. Sorry for the long answers.

(PM me if you have anymore questions. I can't guarantee I'll have the answer to all, because I am only 14, I'm not a theology scholar, and also because there's just some things left out for us to find out until we go to heaven, so yeah.)

[CosmicNoodle]

Q: Do you actually believe? That's a question that bigus me. Do you really believe it? That the earth was created in 7 days, that woman was forged from the rib of a naked guy, in evil talking snakes, to me it sounds like a fairy tail, but do you actually believe in all of it? Word for word?

A: As a Christian I believe that it is true, but not important. There are lots of Christians out there who do believe in evolution, and that's okay. Why? Christianity isn't about how the world was made. If it were, it would be a theory, not a religion. Nothing matters unless you believe Christ saved you from your sins and that you try to live out your life in honor of him.

Q: And that leads me on to another question that bugus me. This one is aimed at Christians who cherry pick, for instance will aknowlege the new testiment yet ignore the old one, because obviously god just changed his mind (a topic in itself that annoys me). Do you really believe in a "loving" creator that loves each and every one of us, yet will send you to suffer the most excruciating pain imagen able for all eternity for being gay, or simply not believing. That's a point...he created you, apparently, so he must be the one who created you, and decided you don't believe, but punishes you for it...I'm off on some what of a tangent.

A: My answer to this is that God does not create misery. God is the created of good. Now, you might be thinking to yourself, well if God didn't create misery, then why does it exist? Well, the thing is God gave us a choice. He created mankind because he wanted us to experience paradise and great love. He created the world perfectly. He was with us and we were with him and it was harmony. But in order for us to experience true love, God gave us the ability to have a choice, because if we didn't, we would be like robots, and the love would be untrue. Unfortunately, satan convinced Adam and Eve to choose sin. If they hadn't of made the decision, we'd still be in paradise. So basically, God did not bring pain, we brought it on ourselves. So like I said, how god gave us the ability to make a choice, we still have that ability. Some choose to believe in him, and others don't. God loves you so much it's uncomprehendable. He sent Jesus to save us from the sin we brought upon ourselves because he wanted us to be able to make the choice to be with him again. That's pure love. He loves you whether you're straight, gay, Athiest or Christian. He just wants you to make the choice to be with him in paradise.

Q: To sum it , my main questions are, so you really believe in all of it? All the magical story's and what not? Amd for the people that do so, how do you justify cherry picking the parts of the religion you want to follow, as if its a buffet. Like I said I don't really mean to offend, but if I have, deal with it.

A: I believe, yes. It sounds crazy believe me. I'm Christian and sometimes I'm like, wow, this is some crazy stuff. But yes I believe in it. God is great, and big and uncomprehendable, explaining why many do not believe in him, because he's far past our human brains to understand how there's this great power bigger than what we see. I look at the world. The mountains, stars, nebulas, the sun, and people say it all happened by chance. Now I'm not saying the Big Bang never happened or whatever, I just believe that there had to be a creator who created everything using that. How can it just happen from nothing? Cells theory explains that cells can only come from other cells. How can a cell come from nothing? (Not looking for a debate I am simply stating my thoughts) I choose to believe there is a creator who made the first cell. People may say, well who made god then? God has always been, and will forever be there. He is just god. Like I said before, our human minds cannot comprehend how this can be. I cannot comprehend it and no person will ever be able to. Alright now that I am finished with the more sciency part, I will talk about the rules and stuff. The bible is like a guideline for life. It was written by the Israelites (influenced by god) and their manners in writing were very metaphorical, explaining the reason why some things are very exaggerated, and us taking them literally and many being appalled by it. There are actually debates within the Christian community about what somethings in the bible actually mean and so forth. To me, these parts were meant to be confusing to leave freedom to the believer. So to many Christians who take it literally, gay marriage is a sin, but to me, I think god just wants a marriage that is prosperous and that will honor him, so I believe that if you are truly gay, gay marriage is ok. There's just different views about the bible. Ps I just wanted to say a little something on the side. Sinning is not what gets you to hell. Not believing in god what gets you there. It's not gods fault considering we technically made the choice to condemn ourselves. So he just gives us the choice to go to heaven. Just in case you were confused. Sorry for the long answers.

(PM me if you have anymore questions. I can't guarantee I'll have the answer to all, because I am only 14, I'm not a theology scholar, and also because there's just some things left out for us to find out until we go to heaven, so yeah.)

See, to me(not trying to offend) that sounds like years upong years of brainwashing by the church. Anyway,
You said, we have the choice to join him in hevon, its not a choice though when your think about it, because just as someone can't chose to be gay, I can't simply decide one day "yep, I believe now", so does that mean I'm condemned to eternal torture forever? Because I'm to scientifically minded to find it possible to believe I somethong, that to me, is as real as the tooth fairy or Santa. Just for the sake of sparking conversation.
I'm still confused as too why some Christians think its OK to simply ignore the parts of the bibe they don't want too follow, I'd bet my left testicle that at some point in your life you have worn cotton clothing with another material, guess what, your going to hell, see what I mean? And how can you simply ignore some parts? They are " gods true word" and if your god is ever knowing and all powerful, its impossible for him to change his mind, as its inpossible for him too make a wrong decision. Kind of indiationg that the bible was written by a story teller and re-writen to for more modern convention at a later date, but that's not really important.
What I'm wondering is how you can ignore the amount of holes and contradictions in the book you so firmly believe.
Like I said, not trying to argue, just sparking conversation, region as a hole concept often confuses me, and at times I see it as a force for good but most of the time, u fortunately, it seems to do more damage than good.

[jayjay's toocool]

do i believe in God yes as much as i believe in breathing. Ignorance is bliss, so i guess this will be rocky to read but....
first off religion isn't christianity, christian is to be christ like.
Loving who you love was never a sin sex with your gender is.
Yes i believe in the Bible and in a God that loves and hates.
The bible says study to show thyself approved, not saying you have to believe in my God, but, you have questions that can be answered without my opinion.

[CosmicNoodle]

Loving who you love was never a sin sex with your gender is.


So your saying, that a god, who is all knowing and powerful, who knows and sees all, in his infinite wisdom, would create a person who wants to fuck there own gender, and then punish them for doing g the thing he made them want to do, your god sou D's purely sadistic.

[Ticagirl]

Hey, i see what you're saying. And you know what, it's okay. It's totally you're opinion. I choose to believe what I believe and you choose what you choose. I get what you mean by gaps, and I can see why you'd think that. Because you don't believe in what I believe, it's very easy to see it that way. To me, it is not gaps, it's different takes on what it says. Yes, there may be parts where in the bible it clearly says stuff, but one thing that many don't know is that there are parts to study in the bible that go along with it sometimes. I don't know how to explain it very much haha. We are human after all. I don't know every answer. And it stinks, because we've got all these questions right? Just like you. Sometimes there just isn't an answer yet. Belief in a god is not based off of facts. It's simply just having faith. Sorry I got a little off topic haha.

There's also something very interesting on the topic of the cotton thing and all that. In the Old Testament (before Jesus), humans had to mark themselves in ways to show that they were dedicated children of god, because there was no savior yet. One mark was circumcision, another was what you were talking about, mixed fabrics. But because Jesus came, there was a way to purify us and a new way to make Gods love accessible to all, which is why we do not pay too much attention to some rules in the first testament. I hope that kind of explained it.

Posts merged. Next time, please use the "Edit" button. ~Elysium

[jayjay's toocool]

So your saying, that a god, who is all knowing and powerful, who knows and sees all, in his infinite wisdom, would create a person who wants to fuck there own gender, and then punish them for doing g the thing he made them want to do, your god sou D's purely sadistic.

You dont have to have sex to be human, first off. Also a sin is a sin lust is sin. Sin is not who your attracted to or who you fall in love with it's what you do with it.

[CosmicNoodle]

You dont have to have sex to be human, first off. Also a sin is a sin lust is sin. Sin is not who your attracted to or who you fall in love with it's what you do with it.

No, you don't have to have sex to be human, but not having sex is rejecting a huge part of what being human is all about, why is it a sin to be human? Why would your god make something and then decide his creation can't indulge in what it is designed to want to do?

[Hideous]

We are not to judge, that's God's job. If you want to have sex go ahead and do so, if you are fully committed to what the Bible says and you feel like you've sinned and have disobeyed, then turn to God in genuine repentance and faith. I'm agnostic so I'm just giving in my two cents of what I know and also, I'm pretty sure sex outside of marriage is a sin.

I think people practice religions to answer things that cannot be currently explained through scientific methods of the time and create a sense of community between people of ancient times. This organization compiles answers together and establishes various rules and traditions for people to follow from due to the...well...our limited thinking of the universe. We have yet to discover.

[CosmicNoodle]

We are not to judge, that's God's job. If you want to have sex go ahead and do so, if you are fully committed to what the Bible says and you feel like you've sinned and have disobeyed, then turn to God in genuine repentance and faith. I'm agnostic so I'm just giving in my two cents of what I know and I'm pretty sure sex outside of marriage is a sin.

Everyone's got onto the topic of what's a sin and what's not. The original question I asked is why do you actually believe in the first place, and do you genuinely believe in it all. And if its not your job to judge, why do I meet so many Christians Willi g tk judge me foepr the things I've done in the privacy of my own room, more to the point, why do they even care what I do? Why do they care if a magic sky god sends me to hell?

[Hideous]

I agree, there are 'Christians' who like to judge you whether you're going to Hell or not because of your actions. I guess it's "modern" or "post modern" Christianity that is completely degenerated, and subconsciously the Christians know that they're not getting what they need. When that happens in a religious tradition, you become insecure and the only way you can make yourself feel better is to do everything and push people into thinking the same like them. There are those who truly believe in God and those who don't.

I'll just say they like to exaggerate verses from the Bible to an extent where they shouldn't be. (Now, I'm not saying all Christians are like that, this just happen to some I know).

And also to answer your question, I don't know if there's a God. And the question to why people believe: "I think people practice religions to answer things that cannot be currently explained through scientific methods of the time and create a sense of community between people of ancient times. This organization compiles answers together and establishes various rules and traditions for people to follow from due to the...well...our limited thinking of the universe. We have yet to discover."

Nothing can prove something definitely so I'd accept it and go with the certainty that can be given, you can choose to follow or believe anything but I would follow the rational scientific way, but a bit hesitant, about the existence of God.

Hey, i see what you're saying. And you know what, it's okay. It's totally you're opinion. I choose to believe what I believe and you choose what you choose. I get what you mean by gaps, and I can see why you'd think that. Because you don't believe in what I believe, it's very easy to see it that way. To me, it is not gaps, it's different takes on what it says. Yes, there may be parts where in the bible it clearly says stuff, but one thing that many don't know is that there are parts to study in the bible that go along with it sometimes. I don't know how to explain it very much haha. We are human after all. I don't know every answer. And it stinks, because we've got all these questions right? Just like you. Sometimes there just isn't an answer yet. Belief in a god is not based off of facts. It's simply just having faith. Sorry I got a little off topic haha.

I agree with this.

[Karkat]

While I'm neither religious nor am I gnostic, I am a theist.

I believe in the possibility of the existence of a higher power. I believe that they could've created things in their own roundabout way. (In theory, if there is an all-powerful, omnipresent being, I'd have to imagine they'd be capable of creating the earth and universe, etc. somehow.)

I also believe that The Bible is taken way too literally by just about everyone who reads and believes in it. I also believe that in the... Improbable event that it's right, no one in modern times really has the right to go on living their life according to it for a few main reasons. (All coming back to "you can't possibly understand it".)

1. The book is quite long. Has the average bible-reader read it in full enough to know what it says mostly? Nope!

My favorite book is The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. I listen to it every night sometimes. However, it is roughly 150 pages. The Bible is much longer.
2. It's in ancient languages. I doubt the average reader is fluent in Ancient Greek, Hebrew, Aramaic, etc.
3. It's uh, not actually a book. It's scrolls and tablets.
No one has a legitimate copy. Only transcriptions that have been translated. By modern peoples. Which brings me to:
4. Customs were very different back in ye olden days. Back to point 2, half the book is written in idioms and figures of speech that only made sense to the people who were alive at the time. We only know so much about it all.

Ever read Shakespeare and been a bit confused? THAT'S ALL IN ENGLISH. And it was all much more recent, and we have much more evidence about how peoples of that era lived.

5. Basically, the chance that you'd ever understand what The Bible is actually supposed to mean is so...Slim that basing such heavy convictions upon it and condemning other people for doing something contrary to you is kinda ridiculous.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Horatio Nelson]

I have read the entire bible front to back and I believe every bit of it. No one forced me. I decided. I do not "cherry pick", but I believe everything in the bible to be true and right.

You cannot claim to be a true Christian and not believe the entire bible, nuff said.

[Ticagirl]

I just wanted to point out that you said how god would create someone gay and punish them for it. I said, god does not punish you for a sin (I do not believe being gay is a sin), but rather for not believing in him. But we bring punishment on ourselves. So let's say a gay Athiest goes to hell. He does not go to hell for being gay. He goes to hell for not choosing the choice of salvation. Sounds harsh yes, but that's what we got ourselves into, not god.

[Miserabilia]

I just wanted to point out that you said how god would create someone gay and punish them for it. I said, god does not punish you for a sin (I do not believe being gay is a sin), but rather for not believing in him. But we bring punishment on ourselves. So let's say a gay Athiest goes to hell. He does not go to hell for being gay. He goes to hell for not choosing the choice of salvation. Sounds harsh yes, but that's what we got ourselves into, not god.

Your posts are really informative and friendly :o
anyway back to topic I just have three questions.

- what's the point of the punishment if it's eternal? Eternal punishment does not teach a lesson, and since we can't see how they are punished it's not a warning to all people on earth.

- if god does not want us to sin and god is allmighty, why did he creat bad things and satan? I've heard the whole "god gave free will" argument, but then why did he give free will?
(besdies the - god works in mysterious ways - argument)

- Who created satan and why?
Or is satan the result of human's bad choices?
(e.g as a physical manifestation of man's sin)

[CosmicNoodle]

While I'm neither religious nor am I gnostic, I am a theist.

I believe in the possibility of the existence of a higher power. I believe that they could've created things in their own roundabout way. (In theory, if there is an all-powerful, omnipresent being, I'd have to imagine they'd be capable of creating the earth and universe, etc. somehow.)

I also believe that The Bible is taken way too literally by just about everyone who reads and believes in it. I also believe that in the... Improbable event that it's right, no one in modern times really has the right to go on living their life according to it for a few main reasons. (All coming back to "you can't possibly understand it".)

1. The book is quite long. Has the average bible-reader read it in full enough to know what it says mostly? Nope!

My favorite book is The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. I listen to it every night sometimes. However, it is roughly 150 pages. The Bible is much longer.
2. It's in ancient languages. I doubt the average reader is fluent in Ancient Greek, Hebrew, Aramaic, etc.
3. It's uh, not actually a book. It's scrolls and tablets.
No one has a legitimate copy. Only transcriptions that have been translated. By modern peoples. Which brings me to:
4. Customs were very different back in ye olden days. Back to point 2, half the book is written in idioms and figures of speech that only made sense to the people who were alive at the time. We only know so much about it all.

Ever read Shakespeare and been a bit confused? THAT'S ALL IN ENGLISH. And it was all much more recent, and we have much more evidence about how peoples of that era lived.

5. Basically, the chance that you'd ever understand what The Bible is actually supposed to mean is so...Slim that basing such heavy convictions upon it and condemning other people for doing something contrary to you is kinda ridiculous.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I think k Ren has a point, the bible is taken far too litteally and as conciwuence is becoming not but a warped version of its former self.

I have read the entire bible front to back and I believe every bit of it. No one forced me. I decided. I do not "cherry pick", but I believe everything in the bible to be true and right.

You cannot claim to be a true Christian and not believe the entire bible, nuff said.

You believe in (not too sound derogotary) a magic sky god, two naked people running around a perfect wonderland, a talking snake that made them eat an apple, that for some reason released all that is bad untoo the world. (Why would god even leave the tree there in the first place? If its so bad? Poor judment on his part), you believe in eternal suffering? Eternal happienes? You believe that I, soneone you have got on fairly well with on the forum, shall burn and be tortured forever just for wanting to have consentual sex, with a boyfriend I cared about? Doesn't that bother you?
And none of this strikes you as insane or unlikely?

Like I said I'm no trying too start and argument, I respect your wishes to worship whatever god you want. I'm just curious as to why people believe, and how, perhaps it varies from person too person, but I just find it impossible to believe.

[Vlerchan]

You cannot claim to be a true Christian and not believe the entire bible, nuff said.
I thought just accepting Christ as your saviour was enough?

I also know most Christians (in the first world) believe that lots of the bible is metaphors. I don't believe it's anyone's place to claim that these are not 'true' Christians considering the actual content.

[CosmicNoodle]

I thought just accepting Christ as your saviour was enough?

I also know most Christians (in the first world) believe that lots of the bible is metaphors. I don't believe it's anyone's place to claim that these are not 'true' Christians considering the actual content.

Valid point, well made, I dont quite think its anyone's choice to decide whether or not someone has a specific faith just because your not pleased with the way they chose to follow it, that's like saying "your not gay because you don't like anal"

[Plane And Simple]

In name of the staff I'd like to thank you guys for keeping a religion debate thread as respectful and accepting as this one. It's a cool thing to see, specially in this topic.

[Horatio Nelson]

You believe in (not too sound derogotary) a magic sky god, two naked people running around a perfect wonderland, a talking snake that made them eat an apple, that for some reason released all that is bad untoo the world. (Why would god even leave the tree there in the first place? If its so bad? Poor judment on his part), you believe in eternal suffering? Eternal happienes? You believe that I, soneone you have got on fairly well with on the forum, shall burn and be tortured forever just for wanting to have consentual sex, with a boyfriend I cared about? Doesn't that bother you?
And none of this strikes you as insane or unlikely?

Like I said I'm no trying too start and argument, I respect your wishes to worship whatever god you want. I'm just curious as to why people believe, and how, perhaps it varies from person too person, but I just find it impossible to believe.


Not at all, God placed the tree of good and evil in the garden as a test. Why would you want to do something someone told you not to do, yet you have everything you ever wanted? Because we are sinful. I don't want to get all preachy though. It is what I believe whole heartedly. Of course I don't want anyone to go to hell, that is my whole goal.

[CosmicNoodle]

Not at all, God placed the tree of good and evil in the garden as a test. Why would you want to do something someone told you not to do, yet you have everything you ever wanted? Because we are sinful. I don't want to get all preachy though. It is what I believe whole heartedly. Of course I don't want anyone to go to hell, that is my whole goal.

Of course you do t want anyone to go to hell, no one would, but do you gemuonly believe that's where I will nd up? Out of curiosity.
And why is god so o tesnt on testing us? Surely an ALL KNOWING being wouldn't need to test. So why would he test? For the lolz?

In name of the staff I'd like to thank you guys for keeping a religion debate thread as respectful and accepting as this one. It's a cool thing to see, specially in this topic.

It is nice isn't it :) I was hesitant to make this but I though "ahh screw" and went ahead, but with a request to keep it clean, for some reason there is a lot of friction between religious folk and atheists, I didn't want it to shine through here.

Sorry for the double post, can you mege them? Sorry for being a pain in the ass, feel free to throw rocks at me :P

Yeah merged. Hit edit next time :p

P&S

[Horatio Nelson]

Of course you do t want anyone to go to hell, no one would, but do you gemuonly believe that's where I will nd up? Out of curiosity.
And why is god so o tesnt on testing us? Surely an ALL KNOWING being wouldn't need to test. So why would he test? For the lolz?

I have no idea how your life will go. I'm just a kid like you.

Because he wants us to be obedient to him.

[CosmicNoodle]

I have no idea how your life will go. I'm just a kid like you.

But my question is do you believe I'm doomed toi eternal torture for my acts, do you believe it will happen? I juspnderstand you don't have all the answers, but do you think, as the bible says will happen, that I will be eternally tortured? Is that what you believe?

Because he wants us to be obedient to him

But surely an ALL POWERFULL being is capable of creating a life form that is obedient from the off, we are, apparently, created in gods image, so why would he ever co dem so ethong in his own image? Surely he would be more forgiving than he is depicted to be..

Like I said, not causing an argument, just curious as to how peoples beliefs work.

[Ticagirl]

I thought just accepting Christ as your saviour was enough?

I also know most Christians (in the first world) believe that lots of the bible is metaphors. I don't believe it's anyone's place to claim that these are not 'true' Christians considering the actual content.

Yeah you're right. All you need is to truly believe in Jesus, but you should still at least try to make an effort to have a relationship with him, you know what I mean?

Your posts are really informative and friendly :o
anyway back to topic I just have three questions.

- what's the point of the punishment if it's eternal? Eternal punishment does not teach a lesson, and since we can't see how they are punished it's not a warning to all people on earth.

- if god does not want us to sin and god is allmighty, why did he creat bad things and satan? I've heard the whole "god gave free will" argument, but then why did he give free will?
(besdies the - god works in mysterious ways - argument)

-Who created satan and why?
Or is satan the result of human's bad choices?
(e.g as a physical manifestation of man's sin)

Answer 1: Well I'm going to be honest. I don't have all the answers. There's times where god does stuff that doesn't make sense, and we don't know why he does things the way he does. We just gotta trust what he does. Therefore, I do not know exactly why he does this, but I guess that'd be a good question to ask god when we go to heaven. But to me just thinking about eternal suffering is enough for me to accept salvation.
Answer 2: Well in the beginning god created us because he wanted someone to feel the love he had. He gave us free will because true love involves choice, or else if he just made us automatically in love we'd be like robots. Unfortunately because Adam and eve decided to reject god they brought sin on themselves.
Answer 3: Satan was actually originally an angel. Angels had free will too. Satan (lucifer was his angel name and I guess his other satanic name) wanted to be better than god, and eventually turned away from him, thus creating himself to become satan. Let me know if you're still confused about anything.

Please use the 'multiquote' or 'edit' buttons to answer to multiple posts. Please do not double post. ~Typhlosion

[CosmicNoodle]

Answer 1: Well I'm going to be honest. I don't have all the answers. There's times where god does stuff that doesn't make sense, and we don't know why he does things the way he does. We just gotta trust what he does. Therefore, I do not know exactly why he does this, but I guess that'd be a good question to ask god when we go to heaven. But to me just thinking about eternal suffering is enough for me to accept salvation.

So basically your using the standard creationist "god works in mysterious ways" argument, that doesn't really open up for debate, it just makes you seem brain washed and as if you don't really even want to fill in the blanks of your religion to lul yourself into a false sense of secutprity

Answer 2: Well in the beginning god created us because he wanted someone to feel the love he had. He gave us free will because true love involves choice, or else if he just made us automatically in love we'd be like robots. Unfortunately because Adam and eve decided to reject god they brought sin on themselves.

Basically, gods creating fucked up and pissed him off? Wow, for such an o ipitent being he sure made a good job. He is supposed to be all knowing, to know everything that will and has happened, so why did he seem to not already know that they would disobey him, and make them abpnyway, that's like seeing a thuimb tack on the floor, and instead of avoiding it, stepping on it anyway.

Answer 3: Satan was actually originally an angel. Angels had free will too. Satan (lucifer was his angel name and I guess his other satanic name) wanted to be better than god, and eventually turned away from him, thus creating himself to become satan. Let me know if you're still confused about anything.

This one is just a biblical story, I can't really argue with that or make a counter point as it was just gave as information to cheeses. But I will ask, why would and all powerful being, your supposed god, not simply strike the devil down? If he's such a huge pain in the ass.

Like I said I'm not looking to offend. But your religion, that you base your life on, has some oarirly huge holes that you want to just glaze over.

[Ticagirl]

Like I said I'm not looking to offend. But your religion, that you base your life on, has some oarirly huge holes that you want to just glaze over.

Sorry didn't mean to come across as defensive. Just want to say one last thing, that were all free here to believe what we want to believe, you and me.

[phuckphace]

So your saying, that a god, who is all knowing and powerful, who knows and sees all, in his infinite wisdom, would create a person who wants to fuck there own gender, and then punish them for doing g the thing he made them want to do, your god sou D's purely sadistic.

I've repeated over and over that homosexuality acquired a negative stigma because of the objectionable behavior of many homosexuals, which was an anathema to the close-knit societies that virtually everyone used to live in. this led naturally to this stigma being codified into religious laws against homosexuality. a lot of homosexuals are hyper-promiscuous and openly celebrate hedonism (see VT itself for examples, such as any of AgentHomo's posts). people back in the day, although they couldn't explain it in ways that satisfy us today, could sense the broken, hedonistic animus that most gay men display when permitted. when everyone else is entering into monogamous marriages and having families, why would you want someone like that in your community? I don't blame them at all, and I'm fucking gay myself.

when it comes to behaviors that Christianity calls "sin", you'll find that there is almost always a real-world, utilitarian advantage in suppressing these behaviors regardless of any alleged supernatural command. not just against homosexuality, but pretty much anything.

I guess what I'm trying to say is ORDNUNG MUSS SEIN.

[Lovelife090994]

With all faiths, your reason of belief is up to and from you. We call it faith. God wants us to be good people and be obedient. God is not asking for live sacrifice, but God does ask for you to accept him and have a relationship with him since he won't dwell in a heart that doesn't want him. Sin is sin and he is the judge, but pointing out sin and condemnation are two different things. Most Christians fall into moderate categories but many Christians are judgy. Of course the few who are would be the loudest. Trust in God, love him for love, be sincere, and get up when you fall, strive for your bestt, and pray for those less fortunate, and above all judge not leest be judge. My signature is a. Good scripture to follow. Humans aren't perfect but through God we are alive and can do great thingss. There is a scripture about how he who doesn't know love has not met God since God is face. God is a father and has been mine for as long as I remember.

[Gamma Male]

I've repeated over and over that homosexuality acquired a negative stigma because of the objectionable behavior of many homosexuals, which was an anathema to the close-knit societies that virtually everyone used to live in. this led naturally to this stigma being codified into religious laws against homosexuality. a lot of homosexuals are hyper-promiscuous and openly celebrate hedonism (see VT itself for examples, such as any of AgentHomo's posts). people back in the day, although they couldn't explain it in ways that satisfy us today, could sense the broken, hedonistic animus that most gay men display when permitted. when everyone else is entering into monogamous marriages and having families, why would you want someone like that in your community? I don't blame them at all, and I'm fucking gay myself.

when it comes to behaviors that Christianity calls "sin", you'll find that there is almost always a real-world, utilitarian advantage in suppressing these behaviors regardless of any alleged supernatural command. not just against homosexuality, but pretty much anything.

I guess what I'm trying to say is ORDNUNG MUSS SEIN.


Do you actually have any evidence to support this theory? What real world consequences of Homosexuality led to it getting a negative stigma?

And why was it that before General Constantine converted the Roman Empire to Christianity, practically everyone was bisexual and society operated fine? Are you really trying to say that all of a sudden they (the Romans) just looked at homosexuality (after it had been performing valuable social roles for thousands of years) and decided it was bad and destructive and that the conversion to Christianity didn't have anything to do with it?

[Lovelife090994]

Do you actually have any evidence to support this theory? What real world consequences of Homosexuality led to it getting a negative stigma?

And why was it that before General Constantine converted the Roman Empire to Christianity, practically everyone was bisexual and society operated fine? Are you really trying to say that all of a sudden they (the Romans) just looked at homosexuality (after it had been performing valuable social roles for thousands of years) and decided it was bad and destructive and that the conversion to Christianity didn't have anything to do with it?

Before you dismiss the original, he makes a very good point. It was a different time period, and Christians have always been reclusive and utilitarian. Something like homosexuality would have been near impossible to fathom at times. Plus, no whole population can ever be bisexual, homosexual, or heterosexual, it doesn't work that way. And remember Christianity was nearly wiped off the Earth at some point, and all through history Christianity has either met hatred to it and its followers or flat out acceptance. He makes a good point. Plus the Roman Empire was weak with the rise of Christianity and Constantinople. Constantine was not perfect, and his reasons for conversion were more corrupt than pure, but at least he did one thing many people didn't, he tried to change. And just because a society stigmas something doesn't mean those involved are killed or subhuman. You have to understand to times.

[Vlerchan]

Something like homosexuality would have been near impossible to fathom at times.
Sure? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_homosexuality)

[Lovelife090994]

Sure? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_homosexuality)

I don't take wikipedia as fact. Plus you fail to understand the history of the people and you failed to read and quote all I typed. I won't patronize you.

[CosmicNoodle]

I don't take wikipedia as fact. Plus you fail to understand the history of the people and you failed to read and quote all I typed. I won't patronize you.

So all info in Wikipedia is suddenly wrong, is also just happens it cointradicts what you said...how conveniant

I've repeated over and over that homosexuality acquired a negative stigma because of the objectionable behavior of many homosexuals, which was an anathema to the close-knit societies that virtually everyone used to live in. this led naturally to this stigma being codified into religious laws against homosexuality. a lot of homosexuals are hyper-promiscuous and openly celebrate hedonism (see VT itself for examples, such as any of AgentHomo's posts). people back in the day, although they couldn't explain it in ways that satisfy us today, could sense the broken, hedonistic animus that most gay men display when permitted. when everyone else is entering into monogamous marriages and having families, why would you want someone like that in your community? I don't blame them at all, and I'm fucking gay myself.

when it comes to behaviors that Christianity calls "sin", you'll find that there is almost always a real-world, utilitarian advantage in suppressing these behaviors regardless of any alleged supernatural command. not just against homosexuality, but pretty much anything.

I guess what I'm trying to say is ORDNUNG MUSS SEIN.

Sooooo. Your says its wrong to be proud of your sexuality? And "ORDNUNG MUSS SEIN" what does that have to do with the topic? What does order have to do with any of this?

[Miserabilia]

Plus, no whole population can ever be bisexual, homosexual, or heterosexual, it doesn't work that way.

Well obviously no new chilren are born if everyone was homosexual, atleast not naturaly.
But why are you so sure a whole population could not be bisexual?
There are a lot of theories that say in their true nature everyone is bisexual because everyone wants their sexual needs fulfilled, despite their major sexual preference. That doesn't mean it's a choice, but that growing up in a society where bisexuality is normal has a lot of influence in how normal you conceive it and how many peopel are bisexual, instead of just straight or just gay.

Bisexual is a bit of a general terms in this, but a lot of societies function with whole other sexual systems, depeneding on social status and respect, not on gender. This was the case with both ancient greek and roman empires at some point.

[CosmicNoodle]

Well obviously no new chilren are born if everyone was homosexual, atleast not naturaly.
But why are you so sure a whole population could not be bisexual?
There are a lot of theories that say in their true nature everyone is bisexual because everyone wants their sexual needs fulfilled, despite their major sexual preference. That doesn't mean it's a choice, but that growing up in a society where bisexuality is normal has a lot of influence in how normal you conceive it and how many peopel are bisexual, instead of just straight or just gay.

Bisexual is a bit of a general terms in this, but a lot of societies function with whole other sexual systems, depeneding on social status and respect, not on gender. This was the case with both ancient greek and roman empires at some point.

I think it would be fanstastic to have a fully bisexual population, just to witness the social implications, as far as I can see people would be a lot more accepting and inspderstanding of sexuality as a hole.

And I think if there where a fully homosexual population the world would be a much more fabulous place :P JK, I think k there would still be some natural reproduction from men and women who are willing toi do somethong they are uncomfortable with, providing it bears the fruits if a natural conception, something valued and for so e reason lrefered by a lot of society.


(As a side note, I often wonder why its like to be straight, I just find it difficult to imagen myself with suck a restricting sexuality. I've come to enjoy bisexuality and don't think I'd really want to be any other way, it opens up so many more relationship options.)

[Miserabilia]

And I think if there where a fully homosexual population the world would be a much more fabulous place :P JK, I think k there would still be some natural reproduction from men and women who are willing toi do somethong they are uncomfortable with, providing it bears the fruits if a natural conception, something valued and for so e reason lrefered by a lot of society.


That's a pretty interesting sci-fi concept :lol:

[Vlerchan]

I don't take wikipedia as fact.
Africa (http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/mar/08/african-homosexuality-colonial-import-myth)The Americas (http://www.glbtq.com/social-sciences/latin_america_colonial.html)China (http://www.china.org.cn/english/2002/Oct/44940.htm) & Japan (http://www.oocities.org/bjcjapan/roots.html)
Rome (http://www.lifesitenews.com/opinion/gay-marriage-and-homosexuality-were-part-of-moral-landscape-in-ancient-rome) & Greece (http://www.livius.org/ho-hz/homosexuality/homosexuality.html)

Plus you fail to understand the history of the people[1] and you failed to read[2] and quote[3] all I typed.
[1]: How?

[2]: I read what you wrote fully.

[3]: I didn't see the point. I don't care to address the rest of what you wrote.

I won't patronize you.
I've read this line.

---

That's a pretty interesting sci-fi concept :lol:

It's looked at in the book "Forever War" if you're interested.

[Stronk Serb]

As a side note, I often wonder why its like to be straight, I just find it difficult to imagen myself with suck a restricting sexuality. I've come to enjoy bisexuality and don't think I'd really want to be any other way, it opens up so many more relationship options.)

I can't really imagine myself with a man, but that's who we are. It really depends on the local populace. If I was openly gay in Serbia, I'd be lynched and stoned and pretty much have no relationships with males. Same would go for bi. A lot of Serbs are unfortunately a primitive bunch. Comes with being under Ottoman rule for 500 years without access to European culture and trends.

[CosmicNoodle]

I can't really imagine myself with a man, but that's who we are. It really depends on the local populace. If I was openly gay in Serbia, I'd be lynched and stoned and pretty much have no relationships with males. Same would go for bi. A lot of Serbs are unfortunately a primitive bunch. Comes with being under Ottoman rule for 500 years without access to European culture and trends.

I supose we both find it hard to picture ourselves any other way because its the way we've been our hole lives, like trying ti imagen youself as a woman, or as a dog, or a shoe rack, or a boat, its hard to imagen yourself as anything other than what you are, shame about the somewhat primitive state of Serbia, one day thing will be right, one day

[Stronk Serb]

I supose we both find it hard to picture ourselves any other way because its the way we've been our hole lives, like trying ti imagen youself as a woman, or as a dog, or a shoe rack, or a boat, its hard to imagen yourself as anything other than what you are, shame about the somewhat primitive state of Serbia, one day thing will be right, one day

Let us hope so.

[Lovelife090994]

Well obviously no new chilren are born if everyone was homosexual, atleast not naturaly.
But why are you so sure a whole population could not be bisexual?
There are a lot of theories that say in their true nature everyone is bisexual because everyone wants their sexual needs fulfilled, despite their major sexual preference. That doesn't mean it's a choice, but that growing up in a society where bisexuality is normal has a lot of influence in how normal you conceive it and how many peopel are bisexual, instead of just straight or just gay.

Bisexual is a bit of a general terms in this, but a lot of societies function with whole other sexual systems, depeneding on social status and respect, not on gender. This was the case with both ancient greek and roman empires at some point.

The Roman culture instilled practiced bisexuality. And only for dominance. Even then a truly flamboyant person was looked down upon. No population could ever truly be one thing unless they themselves have sectioned themselves off. If all Romans were bisexual then something had to be affecting that since it is unlikely only bisexuals lived in the Roman Empire.

[Miserabilia]

The Roman culture instilled practiced bisexuality. And only for dominance.

Yes, and it's still bisexuality. It's a sexual system based on status instead of gender, and gender roles are assined with status.

Even then a truly flamboyant person was looked down upon.

True but not really relevant.


No population could ever truly be one thing unless they themselves have sectioned themselves off. If all Romans were bisexual then something had to be affecting that since it is unlikely only bisexuals lived in the Roman Empire.

No, that is based on bisexual statistics we have now. there's no proof that bisexuality can not be present in all individuals at birth determined by enviremont; the whole nature nurture idea.
Again, that doesn't make it a choice but it could easily be influenced by society.
I haven't seen any large scale studies on this but if you know one I'd be interested to read.

[CosmicNoodle]

Again, that doesn't make it a choice but it could easily be influenced by society.
I haven't seen any large scale studies on this but if you know one I'd be interested to read.

As would I

[Lovelife090994]

Yes, and it's still bisexuality. It's a sexual system based on status instead of gender, and gender roles are assined with status.



True but not really relevant.




No, that is based on bisexual statistics we have now. there's no proof that bisexuality can not be present in all individuals at birth determined by enviremont; the whole nature nurture idea.
Again, that doesn't make it a choice but it could easily be influenced by society.
I haven't seen any large scale studies on this but if you know one I'd be interested to read.

Claudius breaks your theory. Unlike most Roman nobility, he was truly heterosexual.

[CosmicNoodle]

Claudius breaks your theory. Unlike most Roman nobility, he was truly heterosexual.

We all seem to have gotten very off topic, but in a good way, I appologise for my ignorance but I know not of this Claudius, who or what is he?

[Lovelife090994]

We all seem to have gotten very off topic, but in a good way, I appologise for my ignorance but I know not of this Claudius, who or what is he?

Claudius was a Roman emperor who was known for his many tastes in women.

[Miserabilia]

Claudius breaks your theory. Unlike most Roman nobility, he was truly heterosexual.

How does it "break" my "theory"? I'm not saying every single person in the roman empire was bisexual. It's just that sexuality is viewed at diffferently there, as are gender roles.

[CosmicNoodle]

Claudius was a Roman emperor who was known for his many tastes in women.

Ahh, many thanks, thinking back I should have just googled it.

And I don't really think it breaks cheesees "theory", if you can really call it that.


(As a side note, please keep it civil, this goes for you AND cheeses. I made this as a discussion not an argument, please keep it that way, and keep it light hearted, this is a friendly debate, not an angry match of annoyance. What's VT for is not to have fun? Anyway, have at it if you must)

[Miserabilia]

Ahh, many thanks, thinking back I should have just googled it.

And I don't really think it breaks cheesees "theory", if you can really call it that.


(As a side note, please keep it civil, this goes for you AND cheeses. I made this as a discussion not an argument, please keep it that way, and keep it light hearted, this is a friendly debate, not an angry match of annoyance. What's VT for is not to have fun? Anyway, have at it if you must)

Sorry i know my signature and general writing style make it seem like everything i write is butthurt but it's not :lol:
anyway ahum continue with the discussion etc.

[CosmicNoodle]

Sorry i know my signature and general writing style make it seem like everything i write is butthurt but it's not :lol:
anyway ahum continue with the discussion etc.

Actually I really like your sig :)

Anyway;
http://33.media.tumblr.com/4704c338af54e9aa4721f2c89d3767b4/tumblr_mqxy6op7Xj1rth2h5o1_400.gif

[Snydergate]

I am a Creationist so I believe the Earth is only 6000 years old an created in 7 days and that Evolution is not true. I believe in the book of Genesis word for word. Do I think gays go to hell? Not at all, if God created people and some people can be gay, then I think God is just a little gay himself; I got that quote from South Park, but I really think thats right. I think people of all religions go to heaven if they are good people. Muslims, Jews, Shintoists, Hindus Buddhists, and Atheists, etc. I think Atheism or any religion is fine as long as you don't go around bastardizing others for not thinking what you think. I have friends who are atheists, Muslims, and Jews and they are all great people. If you are good, then you enter heaven in my opinion, no matter what background, religion, gender, or sexual orientation you are.

[CosmicNoodle]

I am a Creationist so I believe the Earth is only 6000 years old an created in 7 days and that Evolution is not true. I believe in the book of Genesis word for word. Do I think gays go to hell? Not at all, if God created people and some people can be gay, then I think God is just a little gay himself; I got that quote from South Park, but I really think thats right. I think people of all religions go to heaven if they are good people. Muslims, Jews, Shintoists, Hindus Buddhists, and Atheists, etc. I think Atheism or any religion is fine as long as you don't go around bastardizing others for not thinking what you think. I have friends who are atheists, Muslims, and Jews and they are all great people. If you are good, then you enter heaven in my opinion, no matter what background, religion, gender, or sexual orientation you are.

See, I think your views are a little bit ridiculous, but looked at objectively so are mine, but your the sort of creationist I wish was more common, people who can believe, biut are truely accpeting no matter what. But unfortunately idiots shout the loudest and over peower every one else, meaning that cool guys like you are given somewhat of a bad name, very unfortunate.

(And just a s a side note, you classified Atheism as a religion, its not, it's lack there off, very easy mistake to make)

[Snydergate]

See, I think your views are a little bit ridiculous, but looked at objectively so are mine, but your the sort of creationist I wish was more common, people who can believe, biut are truely accpeting no matter what. But unfortunately idiots shout the loudest and over peower every one else, meaning that cool guys like you are given somewhat of a bad name, very unfortunate.

(And just a s a side note, you classified Atheism as a religion, its not, it's lack there off, very easy mistake to make)

Thanks for the words, I know Atheism isn't a religion, I just didn't feel like explaining that in my comment

[CosmicNoodle]

Thanks for the words, I know Atheism isn't a religion, I just didn't feel like explaining that in my comment

Ahh I see, it's just a lot os creationists, or generally religious folk for that matter, think atheism is a religion, I thought you where one of them. Never mind