Catalonian independance

[tovaris]

The catalonian parlament has anounced November 9th as they day of the referendum where the catalonian nation will decide wheter they want to still be part of spain or continue on an independant path.

What are your thaughts on this situation?

EDIT:

lets brake it up into some segments:

are catalonians a nation?

do they have the moral right to independance?

should they push for it?

what are your predictions, will it sucsed and if so what will hppen next?

[Plane And Simple]

Well, considering it's an illegal referendum, I don't think there's much stuff to say.

[tovaris]

Well, considering it's an illegal referendum, I don't think there's much stuff to say.

But how can you make a democratic act ilegal?

[phuckphace]

But how can you make a democratic act ilegal?

if it's not really a democracy

[Plane And Simple]

But how can you make a democratic act ilegal?

That's what the constitution says. Spain is a united country.

[tovaris]

if it's not really a democracy

how is a referendum not a democratic act?

That's what the constitution says. Spain is a united country.

but what if a nation that lives inside spain wants out? all nations should have the right to declare the land where they have lived for milenium their country

[thatcountrykid]

how is a referendum not a democratic act?



but what if a nation that lives inside spain wants out? all nations should have the right to declare the land where they have lived for milenium their country

It's not a nation. It's a region. That light rightfully belongs to Spain.

[tovaris]

It's not a nation. It's a region. That light rightfully belongs to Spain.

They are inded a nation with their colrute, language, parlament....

The land belonges to the people, not the castilian dinasty

[thatcountrykid]

They are inded a nation with their colrute, language, parlament....

The land belonges to the people, not the castilian dinasty

Well Colorado has it's own culture an legislature so by your logic it can become it's own country even though it technically belongs to tehe United States.

[Harry Smith]

Well Colorado has it's own culture an legislature so by your logic it can become it's own country even though it technically belongs to tehe United States.

no,that's not his logic.

His logic is that if a majority want to leave the union, they have that right.

America was once part of the British Empire man

[thatcountrykid]

no,that's not his logic.

His logic is that if a majority want to leave the union, they have that right.

America was once part of the British Empire man

Yes I know that. Beleive it or not I'm not just some hillbilly conservative.

They can leave if Spanish leadership says so but that land belongs to Spain. I guess if they wanna revolt by all means go ahead. This isn't the 1700's.

[tovaris]

Well Colorado has it's own culture an legislature so by your logic it can become it's own country even though it technically belongs to tehe United States.

In my opinion every state of the US should have that right. but thats irelevant.
Catalonians are historycaly a nation, with their own language etc, and alredy had a state in the past (read before the 17hundreds) but were later forced to rekognize the castilian rule ower them.

[Harry Smith]

Yes I know that. Beleive it or not I'm not just some hillbilly conservative.

They can leave if Spanish leadership says so but that land belongs to Spain. I guess if they wanna revolt by all means go ahead. This isn't the 1700's.

I know you're not, I don't support Catalonia being independent-I just believe that they should have a right for that opportunity

[thatcountrykid]

In my opinion every state of the US should have that right. but thats irelevant.
Catalonians are historycaly a nation, with their own language etc, and alredy had a state in the past (read before the 17hundreds) but were later forced to rekognize the castilian rule ower them.

So would you support Crimea if they wante to succeed from Russia?
Texas was once an independant nation.

Does New York belong to Britian?

No because New York is now part of the United States which is it's own country.

The region the op is talking about is not. It belongs to Spain.

[Harry Smith]

No because New York is now part of the United States which is it's own country.



How did New York become part of the United States?

[thatcountrykid]

How did New York become part of the United States?

Rebellion in the 1700's and it is not comparable to today's world.

[Harry Smith]

it is not comparable to today's world.

why? Because it ruins your argument?

[thatcountrykid]

why? Because it ruins your argument?

No. Because it's a different world with a heavy presence of democracy and diplomatic solutions.

[tovaris]

So would you support Crimea if they wante to succeed from Russia?


Of course i woul! what kind of question is that, an autonome republic suceding from parent entety, nothing wrong with that



Texas was once an independant nation.



they were not a nation they were an independant state

[thatcountrykid]

Of course i woul! what kind of question is that, an autonome republic suceding from parent entety, nothing wrong with that



they were not a nation they were an independant state

But they are Russian speakers. They don't have their own language.

They where an independant republic.

The Republic of Texas (Spanish: República de Texas) was an independent sovereign nation in North America that existed from March 2, 1836, to February 19, 1846.

[Harry Smith]

No. Because it's a different world with a heavy presence of democracy and diplomatic solutions.

Then lets have a diplomatic solution rather than claiming that the land belongs to Spain. I want a unified spain, in the same way I'd want a unified Britain but I'm not going to deny them that right

[thatcountrykid]

Then lets have a diplomatic solution rather than claiming that the land belongs to Spain. I want a unified spain, in the same way I'd want a unified Britain but I'm not going to deny them that right

It's not their right to take that land. It belongs to Spain. They live there yes but the land belongs to the Spanish government.

[tovaris]

But they are Russian speakers. They don't have their own language.

They where an independant republic.

Crimea has always had all the right to indeendance.

You aperantly dont know the diferance betwen a nation and a country, a nation is bound by blod, people of a nation are blod relatives in some distant way basicly, thexas was not that, nor is the US

It's not their right to take that land. It belongs to Spain. They live there yes but the land belongs to the Spanish government.

the land belonges to the catalonians, keep in mind they have theyr own parlament and once were alredy an independant state

No. Because it's a different world with a heavy presence of democracy and diplomatic solutions.

and a referendum isnt a diplomatic solution?

It's not their right to take that land. It belongs to Spain. They live there yes but the land belongs to the Spanish government.

Its their blody land, it belonges to the people there, the people who have live there and vorked the land for generations. The Catalan people

[Harry Smith]

It's not their right to take that land. It belongs to Spain. They live there yes but the land belongs to the Spanish government.

Your legally wrong, http://www.un.org/en/documents/charter/chapter1.shtml

On what right does the land belong to the Spanish government? They use to be an independent country in the 1600's, why can't they be one now?

Vlerchan knows a lot more than be about this, I'm hardly a Spanish expert

[Vlerchan]

Aragon ( http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crown_of_Aragon) (modern day: Catalan - and at stages Southwest France and South Italy but the dynastic rulers were based in the Catalan) was an individual state up until it joined (through marriage) with Castille in the 1600s-ish and combined to form the Kingdom of Spain. The Catalans had their own state longer than the Catalans have been a part of Spain. I support them breaking away from neoliberal Madrid - that part of the county has always historically been more left-wing than the rest of the combined state: emphasised in the fact that during the civil war it was a union of anarchist communes.

Obviously, I also believe the Spanish constitution needs to change: maintaining the single-state at gun point is not a long-term solution - ethical considerations aside.

---

I also wouldn't consider myself anywhere near hugely knowledge on Spanish politics or history.

[EvanGr]

Well, being something different from castillian spanish, catalans should have the right to decide. But the catalan culture has many common aspects with the spanish, portugese and galician. So they are not that different if you think it again. But if it's something catalans want so much, then Spain must recognise their right in self-determination and give them independence. This must also happen to the Basques.