This Isis

[thatcountrykid]

http://www.funker530.com/brutal-graphic-video-released-by-isis/

Does this video make anyone change their mind about us military involvement in Iraq?

[Vlerchan]

Short answer: no.

[Sir Suomi]

No, I totally want the ISIS to completely control all of Iraq and insert Sharia Law into practice, and starting a massive genocide on every minority in the region.

I hope those 500's sent those bastards straight to hell.

[Vlerchan]

No, I totally want the ISIS to completely control all of Iraq and insert Sharia Law into practice, and starting a massive genocide on every minority in the region.
Because that's going to happen.

edit: I seriously have no idea where people get these ideas from.

[Sir Suomi]

Because that's going to happen.

edit: I seriously have no idea where people get these ideas from.

Um, it is happening.

[Gamma Male]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/02/13/congo-mass-execution_n_4782865.html

Funny, I don't remember any of you knights in shining armor calling for the US to invade the Congo.

[Vlerchan]

Um, it is happening.
You mean: ISIL are engaged in a war that might result in it happening.

In this instance: might implies a probability - and I view that probability as being quite low.

[Sir Suomi]

You mean: ISIL are engaged in a war that might result in it happening.

In this instance: might implies a probability - and I view that probability as being quite low.

http://gulfnews.com/news/region/iraq/isil-militants-execute-dozens-from-yazidi-minority-1.1367034

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/08/09/374619/isil-executes-17-civilians-in-iraq/

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/08/10/islamic-state-execute-500-yazidis-with-some-victims-being-buried-alive_n_5665847.html

Please, I really can't take much more of this.

[Vlerchan]

Please, I really can't take much more of this.
I have no idea how your links contradict what I said above: reports of executed minorities does not imply that ISIL is winning the war.

---

I also do agree what is happening is awful. I just oppose Western intervention - exceptions might be made for some strategic airstrikes - because historically, it has worsened the situation. There's just been too many cases where the US has posed itself as a benevolent power, intervening for the good of the local people, only to make the situation worse, because the main point of its intervention has been to secure financial interests. I would much prefer that regional powers - eg: Iran, Syria, etc. - intervened in the context of this conflict because their interest in in helping the Iraqis goes much beyond maintaining stable commodity prices - ensuring what I would feel to be a better job done in the medium- to long-term. I also oppose US intervention on the grounds that it's another for ISIL to cry imperialism - which Islamist groups have historically done in order to gain popular support - and, beyond that, it's only a matter of time before a Western missile kills a Sunni civilian and such acts as a galvanising force for Iraqi sunnis (as has also happened historically).

[Sir Suomi]

I have no idea how your links contradict what I said above: reports of executed minorities does not imply that ISIL is winning the war.

My mistake, I thought you were referring to the acts of genocide.

http://www.ntd.tv/en/news/world/middle-east-/-africa/20140815/191000-jihadist-advances-in-iraq-and-syria-key-dates.html

[thatcountrykid]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/02/13/congo-mass-execution_n_4782865.html

Funny, I don't remember any of you knights in shining armor calling for the US to invade the Congo.

Africa needs to help itself first. Iraq can at least hold itself together. Africa can not.

[Vlerchan]

Link.
I also don't consider this evidence that they are winning the war.

Reports I've seen coming out of Syria are indicating that the Free Syrian Army has done well in pushing the Islamist opposition out:

By the start of 2013, the government had begun to recapture opposition strongholds around the capital, while there was stalemate in Aleppo, with the city firmly divided into rebel and loyalist-controlled sectors.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-22798391

Here's (http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/news/special/panels/14/mar/syria_control/img/graphic_1394727729.gif) a nice sorta-up-to-date map from the same source.

---

ISIL forces were recently pushed out of Lebanon completely:

ARSAL, Lebanon: Militant forces will withdraw from Arsal and captured security personnel will be released during a new 24-hour ceasefire, which was reached through negotiations, a security source told The Daily Star.

According to the deal brokered by the Committee of Muslim Scholars, the Islamic State of Iraq and Greater Syria's militants, who refused to withdraw Tuesday with Nusra Front fighters, will leave Arsal and head back into the mountainous outskirts before the Syrian frontier, gradually by 7 p.m. Thursday, the deadline of the ceasefire.

http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/Lebanon-News/2014/Aug-06/266224-large-numbers-of-militants-withdraw-from-arsal-official.ashx#axzz3AVakiUQx

---

The situation in Iraq is a lot more fluid and no reasonable analysis is possible - or at least I'm yet to see it - but reports I've seen are indicating that against Iraqi forced ISIL are being matched. It's the Kurds who they've recently made gains against, though then I support the US engaging in strategic airstrikes - I'd prefer Iran though - in that region, so you can hardly complain about my position in regards to this.

[thatcountrykid]

I also don't consider this evidence that they are winning the war.

Reports I've seen coming out of Syria are indicating that the Free Syrian Army has done well in pushing the Islamist opposition out:

By the start of 2013, the government had begun to recapture opposition strongholds around the capital, while there was stalemate in Aleppo, with the city firmly divided into rebel and loyalist-controlled sectors.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-22798391

Here's (http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/news/special/panels/14/mar/syria_control/img/graphic_1394727729.gif) a nice sorta-up-to-date map from the same source.

---

ISIL forces were recently pushed out of Lebanon completely:

ARSAL, Lebanon: Militant forces will withdraw from Arsal and captured security personnel will be released during a new 24-hour ceasefire, which was reached through negotiations, a security source told The Daily Star.

According to the deal brokered by the Committee of Muslim Scholars, the Islamic State of Iraq and Greater Syria's militants, who refused to withdraw Tuesday with Nusra Front fighters, will leave Arsal and head back into the mountainous outskirts before the Syrian frontier, gradually by 7 p.m. Thursday, the deadline of the ceasefire.

http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/Lebanon-News/2014/Aug-06/266224-large-numbers-of-militants-withdraw-from-arsal-official.ashx#axzz3AVakiUQx

---

The situation in Iraq is a lot more fluid and no reasonable analysis is possible - or at least I'm yet to see it - but reports I've seen are indicating that against Iraqi forced ISIL are being matched. It's the Kurds who they've recently made gains against, though then I support the US engaging in strategic airstrikes - I'd prefer Iran though - in that region, so you can hardly complain about my position in regards to this.

What's the difference? Do you think Isis being bombed by other Arabs will be any different than being bombed by America.

[Vlerchan]

What's the difference? Do you think Isis being bombed by other Arabs will be any different than being bombed by America.
I went through this in a previous post (http://virtualteen.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2902859&postcount=9) in this thread.

It was a yes.

[thatcountrykid]

I went through this in a previous post (http://virtualteen.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2902859&postcount=9) in this thread.

It was a yes.

The Middle East will never convene together. They've practically been in a constant state of war since the beginning of time. The Middle East is too concert on religious borders than national ones.

[Vlerchan]

The Middle East will never convene together.
If you believe this then why are you bothered attempting to sort it out?

Especially considering what you keep repeating about Africa.

---

I also have no idea what this has to do with my earlier post.

[thatcountrykid]

If you believe this then why are you bothered attempting to sort it out?

Especially considering what you keep repeating about Africa.

---

I also have no idea what this has to do with my earlier post.

I'm saying the countries won't stick together however by themselves they can stand with wester allies.

Cause I didn't really care about your earlier post so I didn't bring it up

[Sir Suomi]

I also don't consider this evidence that they are winning the war.

Reports I've seen coming out of Syria are indicating that the Free Syrian Army has done well in pushing the Islamist opposition out:

By the start of 2013, the government had begun to recapture opposition strongholds around the capital, while there was stalemate in Aleppo, with the city firmly divided into rebel and loyalist-controlled sectors.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-22798391

Here's (http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/news/special/panels/14/mar/syria_control/img/graphic_1394727729.gif) a nice sorta-up-to-date map from the same source.

---

ISIL forces were recently pushed out of Lebanon completely:

ARSAL, Lebanon: Militant forces will withdraw from Arsal and captured security personnel will be released during a new 24-hour ceasefire, which was reached through negotiations, a security source told The Daily Star.

According to the deal brokered by the Committee of Muslim Scholars, the Islamic State of Iraq and Greater Syria's militants, who refused to withdraw Tuesday with Nusra Front fighters, will leave Arsal and head back into the mountainous outskirts before the Syrian frontier, gradually by 7 p.m. Thursday, the deadline of the ceasefire.

http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/Lebanon-News/2014/Aug-06/266224-large-numbers-of-militants-withdraw-from-arsal-official.ashx#axzz3AVakiUQx

---

The situation in Iraq is a lot more fluid and no reasonable analysis is possible - or at least I'm yet to see it - but reports I've seen are indicating that against Iraqi forced ISIL are being matched. It's the Kurds who they've recently made gains against, though then I support the US engaging in strategic airstrikes - I'd prefer Iran though - in that region, so you can hardly complain about my position in regards to this.

I will admit, ISIS has started to lose it's momentum in other regions, but the fact remains that the situation is far from good in Iraq. Although the Peshmerga has been able to slow the advance, even gain back some territory, I'm skeptical about their combat effectiveness. I mean, they haven't even seen a real engagement since '96, so I'm skeptical there isn't much if any units with combat experience. All they've really fought is Iraqi forces, and we all know how well they perform. Also, they're pretty much outgunned and outnumbered, with the ISIS having superior numbers, weapons, and armored support. I just don't see the Kurds standing long against the ISIS for too long, even with US air support. Time will tell I suppose.

On a side note, we really should agree on whether or not to say either "ISIS" or "ISIL". Might confuse a few people reading.

[Vlerchan]

I really can't comment further on what you said above: at this stage it's all just speculation but as you noted the situation does seem like it's brightening.

If it seems that the Kurds look set to lose-out then I may reconsider my position. I feel though that with Iraqi reinforcement this won't happen.

---

We should really be saying "Islamic State" or "IS" because that's what they've labelled themselves. I prefer to call them "ISIL" or the "Islamic State of Iraq and Levant" because Levant (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Levant) is a lot more exact that "Greater Syria (ISIS)". I know that Broken Pen prefers to call them Daesh - which according to Wikipedia is a derogatory term used by people in the Middle east to describe them.

[Sir Suomi]

If it seems that the Kurds look set to lose-out then I may reconsider my position. I feel though that with Iraqi reinforcement this won't happen.



Meh, I wouldn't rely on Iraqi forces. Even after all the combat training we gave them, all the modern-day equipment, they still got routed all across Iraq. It's certainly a dire situation.

[TheN3rdyOutcast]

I love how fast a simple question turned into a debate, but I suppose that will happen on a website filled with people of differing political and social values.

Personally, I think that we've been in the Middle East is too confusing. It's basically Middle Eastern Negligence vs. US Funds, Lives and Preference.

[Lovelife090994]

Personally I think ISIS should be stopped before they take over the whole Middle East and kill every Christian, Jew, Buddhist, man, woman, child, non-Muslim, and homosexual in sight. Thousands are looking at starvation versus death at the hands of ISIS and someone must help these victims or else they'll be murdered in genocide.

[Vlerchan]

News, that doesn't deserve its own topic.

The militants retreated from some of their positions around the dam, the latest front across Iraq where Kurds have gained in recent days with the aid of stepped-up U.S. air attacks, advisers and weapons, and a controversial new ally: fighters from a Kurdish guerrilla force that Washington considers a terror organization.

Hundreds of guerrillas linked to the Kurdistan Workers' Party, or PKK, have this weekend fought in a broader Kurdish offensive against the insurgents under U.S. air cover. They joined the semiautonomous Iraqi Kurdish region's Peshmerga forces around the regional capital of Erbil and the Sinjar mountains, where thousands from the Yazidi religious minority have been trapped by the rapid advance of Islamic State fighters.

[...]

Battle-hardened after two years fighting Islamic State and other Islamist rebel groups in the multi-sided Syrian civil war, Kurdish guerrillas linked to the PKK have in recent weeks made a series of military gains that have spotlighted their growing sway.

http://online.wsj.com/articles/kurds-with-u-s-aid-push-to-take-mosul-dam-1408322338

edit: Godspeed, and all that. Reds'll show you how it's done.