SeaWorld stock plummits over 30%

[Gamma Male]

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-seaworld-entertainment-low-earnings-20140813-story.html

Good. I hope they go bankrupt. This shit shouldn't be legal.

[phuckphace]

is there a non-PETA source where I can read about why exactly people are butthurt at SeaWorld? like did they actually mistreat the orcas or is living in captivity considered the "cruelty"?

[Elysium]

is there a non-PETA source where I can read about why exactly people are butthurt at SeaWorld? like did they actually mistreat the orcas or is living in captivity considered the "cruelty"?
I'm not sure if it has any association with PETA, but have you ever seen Blackfish?

[CassnovA]

im no peta fan but whales swim miles every day, its not just captivity, its close confinement.

[thatcountrykid]

PETA is at it again. I hate everything about that group.

[Harry Smith]

Anyone who thinks that Seaworld is good needs to watch this film

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackfish_(film)

[thermid]

I have to be honest....PETA and greenpeace annoy me and i usually ignore all this "animal rights" stuff....
but blackfish changed my mind about the Sea World at least. and really, its more about the humans and how violent the orcas are to humans

[Gamma Male]

is there a non-PETA source where I can read about why exactly people are butthurt at SeaWorld? like did they actually mistreat the orcas or is living in captivity considered the "cruelty"?
Yes, the living in captivity is the cruelty. Whales and dolphins are highly intelligent social animals that are capable of swimming hundreds of miles every day. Forcing them to live in tiny tanks is profoundly devastating to their mental health.
PETA is at it again. I hate everything about that group.

Okay, but what are your opinions on seaworld?

[thatcountrykid]

Seems like the average zoo/aquarium to me. Maybe bigger tanks for the orcas.

[Gamma Male]

Seems like the average zoo/aquarium to me. Maybe bigger tanks for the orcas.

What would bigger tanks do? It's animal abuse, plain and simple.

[thatcountrykid]

What would bigger tanks do? It's animal abuse, plain and simple.

How?explain exactly how

[Gamma Male]

How?explain exactly how

If you took a dog and confined it to a 4x4 foot cage it's whole life and never once let it out at all, you would go to prison for animal abuse. How is this any different?

[thatcountrykid]

If you took a dog and confined it to a 4x4 foot cage it's whole life and never once let it out at all, you would go to prison for animal abuse. How is this any different?

Cause a: it's not a dog
B: I'm assuming it's within legal parameters
C: you don't go to prison for animal abuse.

People over exaggerate about this a lot.

[Gamma Male]

Cause a: it's not a dog
B: I'm assuming it's within legal parameters
C: you don't go to prison for animal abuse.

People over exaggerate about this a lot.

Why does it matter if it's a dog or whale? What do dogs have that whales don't that entitle them to protection from abuse under the law?

[thatcountrykid]

Why does it matter if it's a dog or whale? What do dogs have that whales don't that entitle them to protection from abuse under the law?

Whales aren't domesticated!! Whales aren't pets. I'm not saying go ahead and beat the shit out of them.

[Gamma Male]

Whales aren't domesticated!! Whales aren't pets. I'm not saying go ahead and beat the shit out of them.

Exactly! Whales aren't domesticated, and they aren't pets. They're wild animals who deserve to live in the wild.

[Elysium]

I might add that whales are also wild animals designed to travel pretty far; dogs aren't. The fact that it's within legal parameters is pretty corrupt. It shouldn't be.

[thatcountrykid]

Exactly! Whales aren't domesticated, and they aren't pets. They're wild animals who deserve to live in the wild.

The whales are their legal property. They can just be taken away. It belongs to them.

[Gamma Male]

The whales are their legal property. They can just be taken away. It belongs to them.

They're not "property", they're sentient beings. Confining them to tanks causes them extreme emotional harm, especially considering their very high level of intelligence. Holding them in those tanks is a violation of their rights and unethical. And my point when I mentioned dogs was that it's hypocritical of you to support laws against dog abuse but not against whale abuse.

[thatcountrykid]

They're not "property", they're sentient beings. Confining them to tanks causes them extreme emotional harm, especially considering their very high level of intelligence. Holding them in those tanks is a violation of their rights and unethical. And my point when I mentioned dogs was that it's hypocritical of you to support laws against dog abuse but not against whale abuse.

It's a fucking whale. It has the right to live that's about it. It doesn't have any legal rights. Ethics are a personal thing and not usable in courts.

There is a huge ass difference between dogs and whales. For example dogs have and actual use. They are police and military working dogs. They are therapy animals. They are a pet while a whale is not.

Do you flip shit like this over reptiles in cages or a tiger at the zoo?

[Gamma Male]

It's a fucking whale. It has the right to live that's about it. It doesn't have any legal rights. Ethics are a personal thing and not usable in courts.
I know they don't have any legal rights. But they should. They're sentient beings capable of feeling pain and fear and love and joy. I don't understand how you can support confining them to tanks despite of the extreme pain it causes them.

There is a huge ass difference between dogs and whales. For example dogs have and actual use. They are police and military working dogs. They are therapy animals. They are a pet while a whale is not.
Your logic doesn't follow. How is their level of "usefulness" relevant? We have laws outlawing the abuse of dogs because dogs are sentient beings capable of feeling a wide range of emotions, with their own desires and needs and wants, and should be treated as such. The same is true for whales.

Do you flip shit like this over reptiles in cages or a tiger at the zoo?

Reptiles, no, not usually. Science has pretty conclusively shown that most reptiles don't care about being confined as long as they're properly cared for. I don't condemn caging reptiles because they don't care about being caged.

Tigers, yes. I don't support confining them to cages either. Or any sentient being that is emotionally or physically harmed by being caged.

[thatcountrykid]

I know they don't have any legal rights. But they should. They're sentient beings capable of feeling pain and fear and love and joy. I don't understand how you can support confining them to tanks despite of the extreme pain it causes them.


Your logic doesn't follow. How is their level of "usefulness" relevant? We have laws outlawing the abuse of dogs because dogs are sentient beings capable of feeling a wide range of emotions, with their own desires and needs and wants, and should be treated as such. The same is true for whales.



Reptiles, no, not usually. Science has pretty conclusively shown that most reptiles don't care about being confined as long as they're properly cared for. I don't condemn caging reptiles because they don't care about being caged.

Tigers, yes. I don't support confining them to cages either. Or any sentient being that is emotionally or physically harmed by being caged.

So by your reasoning we shouldn't be allowed to inprison people because they are intelligent being.

[Gamma Male]

So by your reasoning we shouldn't be allowed to inprison people because they are intelligent being.

Imprisoning people is(sometimes) necessary to prevent future harm from occurring, to rehabilitate people, and to keep dangerous people away from the others whom they might harm. Whales are not dangerous and imprisoning them serves no purpose other than to entertain people, which does not justify the great emotional harm done to imprisoned whales.

[thatcountrykid]

Imprisoning people is(sometimes) necessary to prevent future harm from occurring, to rehabilitate people, and to keep dangerous people away from the others whom they might harm. Whales are not dangerous and imprisoning them serves no purpose other than to entertain people, which does not justify the great emotional harm done to imprisoned whales.

Where is the evidence of the emotional harm.

Great health care and feeding doesn't seem like torture to me

[Gamma Male]

Where is the evidence of the emotional harm.

Great health care and feeding doesn't seem like torture to me

It's basic biology really. Whales are highly intelligent social creatures who're capable of traveling hundreds of miles a day in their natural environment. Some studies even seem to suggest they may be self aware.

Former SeaWorld trainer Jeff Ventre, who knows killer whales well, notes that fatal attacks "are manifestations of stress, even madness, in animals forced into miserable, unnatural conditions." Not only do these amazing sentient beings suffer major psychological trauma but they also typically have broken teeth because they bite on the steel gates that are used to separate them and suffer from dorsal fin collapse from endlessly swimming in circles. Wild killer whales normally swim upwards of 100 miles a day in straight lines and dorsal fin collapse is very rare among wild orcas. Of course, SeaWorld claims dorsal fin collapse isn't a sign of poor health or well-being.

Killer whales are not the only nonhuman animals who suffer emotionally in captivity. Research by Dr. Hope Ferdowsian and her colleagues has clearly shown that captive chimpanzees display behavior patterns similar to post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) and depression. The same goes for elephants abused in circuses where they are treated incredibly harshly (egregiously and inhumanely "broken") so they will perform unnatural tricks and for those kept in tiny cages in zoos absent social companions and a physical environment where they can do the things their wild relatives routinely do. I'm sure when similar research is conducted on other animals we'll discover the same trends. It's not all that surprising that captive animals show severe signs of stress and depression given how their lives are severely compromised. Indeed, exploited wild elephants also show signs of trauma and depression.

In the case of the killer whales these data are particularly important because they are used in moneymaking shows in which they are forced to perform stupid and unnatural acts. It's a lose-lose situation for these magnificent animals and they shouldn't be blamed for their behavior for these attacks are avoidable tragedies. Furthermore, the captive breeding of orcas should cease by these profit-motivated "whale mills".
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/animal-emotions/201109/captivity-drives-killer-whales-crazy-seaworld-fights-fines-placing-profi

That's from a trusted psychology magazine not affiliated with any animal rights organization. It would pretty much take denying basic science to claim that captive whales don't endure emotional harm.

[Harry Smith]

There is a huge ass difference between dogs and whales. For example dogs have and actual use.



The use of an animal doesn't give it extra rights, in the same way that a use of a human doesn't give it extra rights.

I know what will really grind your gears, the fact that so many people have died as a result of this

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/US/02/25/florida.seaworld.death/

http://www.theweek.co.uk/politics/16377/not-first-time-seaworld-killer-whale-has-killed

Ethics are a personal thing and not usable in courts.

That's also wrong

n August 23, 2010, the Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) fined the park US$75,000 for three infractions, two of which were directly related to this incident. One related citation was designated as "willful", and was "committed with plain indifference to or intentional disregard for employee safety and health". The other related citation was a "serious" violation relating to a missing safety rail at Shamu Stadium

n August 23, 2010, the Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) fined the park US$75,000 for three infractions, two of which were directly related to this incident. One related citation was designated as "willful", and was "committed with plain indifference to or intentional disregard for employee safety and health". The other related citation was a "serious" violation relating to a missing safety rail at Shamu Stadium

Seaworld is a joke, and quite rightly they're losing massive amounts of profit

http://www.seaworldofhurt.com/features/ten-things-didnt-know-seaworld/

[CosmicNoodle]

Anyone who thinks that Seaworld is good needs to watch this film

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackfish_(film)

I was actually just about to link that ^

[Lovelife090994]

So captivity is cruelty? Hahahahahahahahaha! Oh PETA and greenhead vegans you are wonderful! What's next? Banning every zoo and national forest in the world? Haha, it's so laughable to think that some are so duped by media and the green-peace parade charade that they honestly think any animal in captivity is being tortured. But I guess if I believed all animals should be free to roam the land and attack innocents then I'd see cages as cruelty too. Cage-free tigers would turn zoos into coliseums.

[Gamma Male]

So captivity is cruelty? Hahahahahahahahaha! Oh PETA and greenhead vegans you are wonderful! What's next? Banning every zoo and national forest in the world?
Zoos yes, National Parks no.
Haha, it's so laughable to think that some are so duped by media and the green-peace parade charade that they honestly think any animal in captivity is being tortured.
It would take denying basic biology to claim that imprisoning a whale in a 50 foot long take doesn't harm it. Whales are highly intelligent social mammals. Read the quote in my previous post.
But I guess if I believed all animals should be free to roam the land and attack innocents then I'd see cages as cruelty too. Cage-free tigers would turn zoos into coliseums.

What on earth makes you think whales would attack humans?