Does gay/bisexul people will go to heaven [Archive]

Living For Love

August 10th, 2014, 01:05 PM

As a Christian, I'm not simply going to tell you that it's all BS and stuff because those are just things people believe, whether it's true or not, it depends on your faith.

Now, you don't find anywhere in the Bible that "homosexual people won't go to heaven", no one has the right to say: "You go to heaven and you go to hell". Homosexuality (as two men having sex) is a sin, yes, but Christians commit sins everyday, the difference is that some ask for forgiveness, and also accept Jesus as their saviour, while others don't even know him... And on the other hand, it's not being gay/bisexual that sends people to hell, it's committing gay/bisexual acts. Only God has the right to judge us, and only he knows whether we deserve to inherit his kingdom or not, because he's the only one who knows our true intentions.

Harry Smith

August 10th, 2014, 01:55 PM

Homosexuality (as two men having sex) is a sin, yes, but Christians commit sins everyday, the difference is that some ask for forgiveness, and also accept Jesus as their saviour, while others don't even know him.

so the the Bible's line is that you can have gay sex if as long as afterwards you say some words about Jesus.

it's not being gay/bisexual that sends people to hell, it's committing gay/bisexual acts. Only God has the right to judge us

So the Christianity then wants 6% of the population to become celibate.

Living For Love

August 10th, 2014, 02:21 PM

so the the Bible's line is that you can have gay sex if as long as afterwards you say some words about Jesus.
No, it doesn't work that way. It would be a bit stupid if you commit a certain sin, ask for forgiveness, commit the same sin some days after and just keep going on with this cycle, and hoping that God would forgive you on all those occasions. God is merciful enough to forgive you, but he's not stupid, and you can't simply trick him that way.

So the Christianity then wants 6% of the population to become celibate.

I never understand why people think even if they believe in God that he has a right to judge us. Why would god care who you sleep with, they're are 7 billion people on the earth-he doesn't give a shit what people do in their bedrooms
He does care about you, and because he wants you to be saved, he doesn't want you to commit any kind of sin, whether it's on your bedroom or not. And even sex between heterosexual people is regarded the same way, which is this one: you should only have sex with the purpose of having children, not for achieving sexual pleasure.

Harry Smith

August 10th, 2014, 02:32 PM

you should only have sex with the purpose of having children, not for achieving sexual pleasure.

but why? It's great to say that but it's proved wrong by basic human anatomy. Look at the overpopulation thread, we quite clearly don't need more people on the planet.

Do you then believe that all contraception should be outlawed?

Living For Love

August 10th, 2014, 03:01 PM

but why? It's great to say that but it's proved wrong by basic human anatomy. Look at the overpopulation thread, we quite clearly don't need more people on the planet.

Do you then believe that all contraception should be outlawed?

God doesn't force anyone to have children, though children would be really appreciated in certain regions in the world, particularly in Europe, where birth rates are dropping to alarming levels. Feel free to explain how the basic human anatomy proves the fact that humans need to have sex in order to feel pleasure wrong. And I don't believe that all contraception should be outlawed because the idea that everyone will suddenly decide to follow God's laws and stop having sex for pleasure from one day to another is very unlikely.

Harry Smith

August 10th, 2014, 03:32 PM

God doesn't force anyone to have children, though children would be really appreciated in certain regions in the world, particularly in Europe, where birth rates are dropping to alarming levels.

I never said God forces people to have children, I said that his teachings imply that the only purpose of sex is to create offspring.

Yous stated

you should only have sex with the purpose of having children, not for achieving sexual pleasure.If god wanted this to be true why did God create the prostate massage?

The prostate is sometimes referred to as the "male G-spot". Some men can achieve orgasm solely through stimulation of the prostate gland, such as receptive anal intercourse, and men who report the sensation of prostate stimulation often give descriptions similar to females' accounts of G-spot stimulation.[9][10] Prostate stimulation can produce stronger and more powerful orgasmsWhy did god create a sexual male 'G spot' that can only be reached through anal sex?

Living For Love

August 10th, 2014, 04:02 PM

I never said God forces people to have children, I said that his teachings imply that the only purpose of sex is to create offspring.

If god wanted this to be true why did God create this-warning NSFW

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostate_massage

Why did god create a sexual male 'G spot' that can only be reached through anal sex?

God created the prostate because it produces a liquid (that usually constitutes 50–75% of the volume of the semen) that helps sperm cells to have better motility and longer survival, and thus increasing the chances of occurring human fertilisation. The prostate's main function is that one, not allowing men to achieve sexual pleasure from it.

Harry Smith

August 10th, 2014, 04:08 PM

God created the prostate because it produces a liquid (that usually constitutes 50–75% of the volume of the semen) that helps sperm cells to have better motility and longer survival, and thus increasing the chances of occurring human fertilisation. The prostate's main function is that one, not allowing men to achieve sexual pleasure from it.

Yes but why did God create it to give sexual pleasure? Surely he could of avoided that?

As usual Yahoo answers has all the questions

https://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080715081911AAOFZrf

Living For Love

August 10th, 2014, 04:21 PM

Yes but why did God create it to give sexual pleasure? Surely he could of avoided that?

Remember this is the being that managed to create the entire earth

Using the prostate to achieve sexual pleasure wasn't something that God did, it was mankind that found out about it. We usually feel nice if someone kisses us, and God didn't create kisses, like that doesn't make sense. And all the effort you have to make in order to achieve sexual pleasure through prostate massage, it's not worth it when you can simply be satisfied using other methods, like kissing.

Harry Smith

August 10th, 2014, 04:27 PM

Using the prostate to achieve sexual pleasure wasn't something that God did, We usually feel nice if someone kisses us, and God didn't create kisses, like that doesn't make sense.

It's different to kissing, you're trying to strawman it. The chemicals are completely different. I'm not talking about the physical act, I'm asking why did he create the 'male g spot there'.

It's called the male g spot for a reason you know. Do you know why

And all the effort you have to make in order to achieve sexual pleasure through prostate massage, it's not worth it when you can simply be satisfied using other methods, like kissing.

Lol-most gay men will disagree with that. and Wikipedia

When the ]male g spot is found the sensations are UNIQUE[/U]. Similar to a womans gspot, the important nerves for erection, orgasm and ejaculation converge

The prostate is sometimes referred to as the "male G-spot". Some men can achieve orgasm solely through stimulation of the prostate gland, such as receptive anal intercourse, and men who report the sensation of prostate stimulation often give descriptions similar to females' accounts of G-spot stimulation.[9][10] Prostate stimulation can produce stronger and more powerful orgasms

TL;DR: don't worry about the church tells you to do, this is the same book that says we can't have clothes from different materials. You're going to continue to say that homosexual acts are evil because that's how you interpret your religion.

To the OP, me and many other members of this forum are gay and we've yet to be struck by lighting

Living For Love

August 10th, 2014, 04:55 PM

It's different to kissing, you're trying to strawman it. The chemicals are completely different. I'm not talking about the physical act, I'm asking why did he create the 'male g spot there'.
Where would you want him to create it, then? It has to be near the male reproductive organ for obvious reasons.

TL;DR: don't worry about the church tells you to do, this is the same book that says we can't have clothes from different materials. You're going to continue to say that homosexual acts are evil because that's how you interpret your religion.
Now you really have to tell me where in the Bible is stated that I can't wear clothes from different materials.
To the OP, me and many other members of this forum are gay and we've yet to be struck by lighting
God's judgement doesn't work that way. I'd highly suggest you to read the Bible's main ideas before starting arguments about it, it doesn't take a lot of work, despite the hatred you have of it.

Goatzbro

August 10th, 2014, 05:46 PM

Why would you say that homosexuality is against nature and that sex for achieving sexual pleasure is immoral? Both statements are not only detrimental to society but also blatantly incorrect. For the former statement, numerous animals in nature practice homosexuality. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_animals_displaying_homosexual_behavior
And for the latter statement, why would our brains release dopamine (a chemical that gives us pleasure and reinforces actions) if it wasn't designed for pleasure. Once again, biblical propaganda proves to have 0 factual basis in the hard sciences AND philosophy.

Also behavioral scientists have shown that regular sex reduces stress hormones and creates a more harmonious community. Another example is nature is the bonobo, who use sex to solve everything. Benefits of recreational sex:
http://www.webmd.com/sex-relationships/guide/sex-and-health

Please do NOT double post. ~Typhlosion

Living For Love

August 10th, 2014, 06:35 PM

Why would you say that homosexuality is against nature...
I didn't say that.

...and that sex for achieving sexual pleasure is immoral?
I didn't say that, once again, I only said sex's primary function is to have children.

For the former statement, numerous animals in nature practice homosexuality. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_animals_displaying_homosexual_behavior
I really hope you aknowledge the difference between humans and irrational animals.

And for the latter statement, why would our brains release dopamine (a chemical that gives us pleasure and reinforces actions) if it wasn't designed for pleasure.
Dopamine has so so so many other more important functions in our brains other than "giving us pleasure"... You basically couldn't think or move without it.

Once again, biblical propaganda proves to have 0 factual basis in the hard sciences AND philosophy.
Conparing religion to science and to philosophy is like comparing peanut butter to Astronomy and to Lindsay Lohan. They are simply incompatible, opposites, even, you can't expect religion to base itself on science, those are two totally different perspectives.

Goatzbro

August 10th, 2014, 07:49 PM

Conparing religion to science and to philosophy is like comparing peanut butter to Astronomy and to Lindsay Lohan. They are simply incompatible, opposites, even, you can't expect religion to base itself on science, those are two totally different perspectives.
So then why use peanut butter to govern people's lives? Clearly peanut butter (religion) is not effective at teaching VULNERABLE children whether or not they should be accepting of their identity. It is borderline criminal to say "Hey this abstract concept that has no scientific basis commands you to not engage in sex or homosexual activities" to a kid. Actual no, it may as well be criminal.

Lovelife090994

August 10th, 2014, 09:12 PM

Babs

August 11th, 2014, 03:18 AM

I'm an atheist, I don't believe in heaven or hell. But when I was a christian I truly believed that God loved all of his children. For me, christianity was about love. I believed that everyone is a sinner, everyone does bad things (which I still believe, not that I think being gay is bad. But in the bible it says it is) but that doesn't mean that they're going to hell.

Miserabilia

August 11th, 2014, 03:33 AM

It's a religion, some followers say sexuality doesn't matter but sadly most of them think it's wrong and that homosexuals go to hell.
Please don't let yourself get guilt feelings because of this, if you really beleive in god I'd say ask him for advice, after all god is more important than a priest.

Harry Smith

August 11th, 2014, 03:34 AM

Now you really have to tell me where in the Bible is stated that I can't wear clothes from different materials.

God's judgement doesn't work that way. I'd highly suggest you to read the Bible's main ideas before starting arguments about it, it doesn't take a lot of work, despite the hatred you have of it.

lol someone tells me homosexuality is a sin and that gay people shouldn't have sex but you blame me for then hating the Bible. Every athesist worth the

You shall keep my statutes. You shall not let your cattle breed with a different kind. You shall not sow your field with two kinds of seed, nor shall you wear a garment of cloth made of two kinds of material. Leviticus 19:19

Where would you want him to create it, then? It has to be near the male reproductive organ for obvious reasons

Your failing to understand the issue. Have you read any of the stuff I quoted?

Living For Love

August 11th, 2014, 04:02 AM

So then why use peanut butter to govern people's lives? Clearly peanut butter (religion) is not effective at teaching VULNERABLE children whether or not they should be accepting of their identity. It is borderline criminal to say "Hey this abstract concept that has no scientific basis commands you to not engage in sex or homosexual activities" to a kid. Actual no, it may as well be criminal.

You keep comparing peanut butter and Astronomy. Religion has no scientific basis, period. You can't use science to explain something that can only be explained by faith. And we don't teach children not to engage in sex or homosexual activities, they are taught Christianity principles, they are the ones who choose whether to accept them or not.

lol someone tells me homosexuality is a sin and that gay people shouldn't have sex but you blame me for then hating the Bible. Every athesist worth the
I don't blame you for hating the Bible, hate whatever you like, I couldn't care less.

You shall keep my statutes. You shall not let your cattle breed with a different kind. You shall not sow your field with two kinds of seed, nor shall you wear a garment of cloth made of two kinds of material. Leviticus 19:19
Oh God, not again...

If you've just quoted this here it means you have absolutely no knowledge about Christianity basic principles.

I'm going to try and keep this simple:

When Jesus walked on Earth, he stated the following:

The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it. Luke 16:16-18 (KJV)

When Jesus says "the law and the prophets", he's referring to the whole Old Testament principles and laws that were given to Moses by God. All those laws, that included Jewish ceremonies and Jewish principles related to their way of living, were abolished by Jesus in the moment he died on the cross. Christians follow Jesus, not Moses, he was only a prophet, and one of Israel leaders.

When you have a testament, you have death, right? When someone creates a will, or a testament, it will only be valid after that person dies. Jesus said: "There's no salvation without blood." In the Old Testament, Israelis used animals' blood to make sacrifices, in order to purify their sins. In the New Testament, or nowadays, we don't need to sacrifice animals no more, because Jesus has already sacrificed himself for all humanity's sins, mine, yours, everyone's sins.

And thus the Old Alliance in not valid anymore. When you say I can't wear clothes from different materials, and you use that extract from the Bible, well, Jesus abolished the Old Law when he died, so that doesn't apply to mankind anymore. Only certain principles were kept, told by Jesus himself of by the apostles.

Your failing to understand the issue. Have you read any of the stuff I quoted?
Yeah, I'm a bit slow, enlighten me please.

Harry Smith

August 11th, 2014, 04:10 AM

If you've just quoted this here it means you have absolutely no knowledge about Christianity basic principles.

I'm going to try and keep this simple:

When Jesus walked on Earth, he stated the following:

When Jesus says "the law and the prophets", he's referring to the whole Old Testament principles and laws that were given to Moses by God. All those laws, that included Jewish ceremonies and Jewish principles related to their way of living, were abolished by Jesus in the moment he died on the cross. Christians follow Jesus, not Moses, he was only a prophet, and one of Israel leaders.

When you have a testament, you have death, right? When someone creates a will, or a testament, it will only be valid after that person dies. Jesus said: "There's no salvation without blood." In the Old Testament, Israelis used animals' blood to make sacrifices, in order to purify their sins. In the New Testament, or nowadays, we don't need to sacrifice animals no more, because Jesus has already sacrificed himself for all humanity's sins, mine, yours, everyone's sins.

And thus the Old Alliance in not valid anymore. When you say I can't wear clothes from different materials, and you use that extract from the Bible, well, Jesus abolished the Old Law when he died, so that doesn't apply to mankind anymore. Only certain principles were kept, told by Jesus himself of by the apostles.

Yeah, I'm a bit slow, enlighten me please.

So basically your happy to use the lines from the old testament that are against homosexuality but you don't want to use the stuff that embarrasses the church. The new testament is very light on homosexual acts-none of the 4 gospels even mention it

Talk about Public relations

Living For Love

August 11th, 2014, 05:58 AM

So basically your happy to use the lines from the old testament that are against homosexuality but you don't want to use the stuff that embarrasses the church. The new testament is very light on homosexual acts-none of the 4 gospels even mention it

Talk about Public relations
If I were to use lines that are against homosexuality, I wouldn't use the ones from the Old Testament. The New one still condemns homosexual acts in a certain way:

For this [idolatry] cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet. Romans 1:26-27 (EMTV)

It's true that none of the four gospels mentions the subject directly, and there is nothing about homosexuality in the Book of Acts, in Hebrews, in Revelation, or in the letters attributed to James, Peter, and John. And the Church isn't embarrassed because in the past Israeli people were forbidden from using clothes from different materials, it made sense at that time.

Harry Smith

August 11th, 2014, 10:58 AM

it made sense at that time.

The same could be said of the church's teachings of homosexuality right?

If you're going to tell us we can't have sex, I'm going to make you wear full denim

Living For Love

August 11th, 2014, 11:10 AM

The same could be said of the church's teachings of homosexuality right?

If you're going to tell us we can't have sex, I'm going to make you wear full denim

No. The Bible is clear about it, it was said in the Old Testament, and despite the fact that the old laws were abolished, Paul the Apostle made sure he restated that point in his teachings, that all homosexual acts are condemned by God. The big majority of the other points of the old law (what the Israeli people should eat, should wear, should do when someone gets sick, etc...) were abolished by Jesus when he died, because all those aspects where related to the fact that people asked God forgiveness by sacrificing animals, we don't need to do it anymore.

Harry Smith

August 11th, 2014, 11:24 AM

No. The Bible is clear about it, it was said in the Old Testament, and despite the fact that the old laws were abolished, Paul the Apostle made sure he restated that point in his teachings, that all homosexual acts are condemned by God. The big majority of the other points of the old law (what the Israeli people should eat, should wear, should do when someone gets sick, etc...) were abolished by Jesus when he died, because all those aspects where related to the fact that people asked God forgiveness by sacrificing animals, we don't need to do it anymore.

so you believe in blindly following a book rather than adopting modern customs?

You've yet to even present evidence that God actually cares about homosexuality, all you've got is a book written by man 2,000 years ago

Living For Love

August 11th, 2014, 11:44 AM

so you believe in blindly following a book rather than adopting modern customs?

You've yet to even present evidence that God actually cares about homosexuality, all you've got is a book written by man 2,000 years ago

It's a book written by men who were inspired by God. It's God's word, God's law, all you need to know about God, Jesus, and their commandments/teachings is written there. God condemns homosexual acts, it's written there, I've already shown you where. And yes, I believe in it. And homosexuality isn't a "modern custom", homosexuality is not a trend, it exists since a really long time ago (since Sodom and Gomorrah), and since then, homosexual acts have been condemned by God. If there's anyone who needs to adapt here is men, not God or his laws.

Harry Smith

August 11th, 2014, 11:57 AM

. If there's anyone who needs to adapt here is men, .

Well it looks like you're too late, thankfully some countries are actually progressive enough to realize that gay people actually deserve something called rights.

I'm not changing because a book tells me I should

And homosexuality isn't a "modern custom", homosexuality is not a trend, it exists since a really long time ago

Eh the concept of homosexuality is, it wasn't really coined until the 18th century

Living For Love

August 11th, 2014, 12:24 PM

Well it looks like you're too late, thankfully some countries are actually progressive enough to realize that gay people actually deserve something called rights.

It's not like God hates homosexual people, everyone has the same rights regardless of their sexual orientation. God doesn't discriminate like men do, he only tells us what we should do or what we shouldn't, he created us and knows our strengths and our weaknesses.

Eh the concept of homosexuality is, it wasn't really coined until the 18th century
People have been committing homosexual acts way before then.

Harry Smith

August 11th, 2014, 12:35 PM

People have been committing homosexual acts way before then.

committing homosexual acts doesn't make you a homosexual

Living For Love

August 11th, 2014, 12:38 PM

committing homosexual acts doesn't make you a homosexual
Right, and? I'm going to repeat myself again: God condemns homosexual acts, not homosexual people.

Harry Smith

August 11th, 2014, 12:45 PM

Right, and? I'm going to repeat myself again: God condemns homosexual acts, not homosexual people.

Apart from the Bible do you have any evidence to support that?

Living For Love

August 11th, 2014, 12:53 PM

Apart from the Bible do you have any evidence to support that?

No. You can't find God's law in science, or in philosophy, or in flawed men-made customs and traditions. The only evidence you have is on the Bible, nowhere else.

Armor_King

August 11th, 2014, 06:15 PM

Homosexuality isn't a sin sorry. It doesn't say anywhere in the bible that it was a sin.

Gigablue

August 11th, 2014, 06:16 PM

Quit putting words in his mouth. Religiosity is bad, spirituality is not. Anyone can go to Heaven but you must not constantly judge others to do so. Not all religious people teach kids to hide their "differences." Have you ever considered that?

Define spirituality. People just throw the term around, yet there is no single, coherent definition of it.

God condemns homosexual acts

God condemns everything, including homosexuality (Leviticus 18:22), but also including eating pork (Leviticus 11:7-8), wearing mixed fabrics (Leviticus 19:19), working on the sabbath (Exodus 20:10), touching dead pigs (Deuteronomy 14:8), and being a rape victim (Deuteronomy 22:23-27). If we accept the probhibition against homosexuality, which I see no reason to accept, we should also accept all the other commands.

Lovelife090994

August 11th, 2014, 09:28 PM

Define spirituality. People just throw the term around, yet there is no single, coherent definition of it.

God condemns everything, including homosexuality (Leviticus 18:22), but also including eating pork (Leviticus 11:7-8), wearing mixed fabrics (Leviticus 19:19), working on the sabbath (Exodus 20:10), touching dead pigs (Deuteronomy 14:8), and being a rape victim (Deuteronomy 22:23-27). If we accept the probhibition against homosexuality, which I see no reason to accept, we should also accept all the other commands.

Giga, I'm not going to gallivant and play 20 rallies with you. Spirituality is faith, it's having your own faith. You may be considered Christian, or Muslim or Jewish or whatever, it's you having some sense of spirit without the need of doctrines and religiousness.

Living For Love

August 12th, 2014, 03:35 PM

God condemns everything, including homosexuality (Leviticus 18:22), but also including eating pork (Leviticus 11:7-8), wearing mixed fabrics (Leviticus 19:19), working on the sabbath (Exodus 20:10), touching dead pigs (Deuteronomy 14:8), and being a rape victim (Deuteronomy 22:23-27). If we accept the probhibition against homosexuality, which I see no reason to accept, we should also accept all the other commands.
The other commands where abolished when Jesus died in the cross, I've repeated this thrice now.

Vlerchan

August 12th, 2014, 03:53 PM

The other commands where abolished when Jesus died in the cross, I've repeated this thrice now.
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill them" (Matthew 5:17) (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+5:17)
"For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven." (Matthew 5:18-19) (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+5:18-19)
And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail. (Luke 16:17) (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+16%3A17&version=KJV)

Jesus seems to be contradicting himself here.

Rayquaza

August 12th, 2014, 04:22 PM

I think that saying gay people will not go to heaven is equally as ridiculous as saying straight people will not go to heaven.

Living For Love

August 12th, 2014, 06:29 PM

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill them" (Matthew 5:17) (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+5:17)
In Matthew 5:17, Jesus wasn't referring to Jewish customs that Israeli people needed to obbey to, he was referring to the prophecies about him, about his birth, about the fact that God would send his only Son to save humanity. And, in fact, he didn't abolished it, he fulfilled it, because he was born, he became a man, he taught us all we need to know, and then he died, and on that moment, the prophecy was fulfilled:

"For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace." Isaiah 9:6-7 (NIV)

"For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven." (Matthew 5:18-19) (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+5:18-19)
"Until all is accomplished" - Jesus is referring to his death, that needs to happen so that Men and God, that were separated by sin, could rejoin together once again, through Jesus's sacrifice. Before that, people would still need to follow the old Law, after his death and ressurection, they would be free of that.

And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail. (Luke 16:17) (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+16%3A17&version=KJV)
Here he's referring to the old Law on its whole, but the versicle before the one you quoted says:

"The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it." Luke 16:16 (KJV)

Despite the fact that the old Law was abolished, we (nowadays Christians) should still learn about it and know it, because if the old Law didn't exist, if no prophet had foreseen Jesus's birth, then the whole New Testament would be uselesss. And depite being abolished, we shouldn't change, because it's God's law nevertheless.

Christians aren't subordinated to the old Law anymore (Galatians 3:23-29), that burden was lifted when Jesus died (Colossians 2:14). After his death, a new Alliance was made, and mankind has now access to God directly.

Lovelife090994

August 12th, 2014, 10:43 PM

The other commands where abolished when Jesus died in the cross, I've repeated this thrice now.

Technically the first I believe eight books of the Bible are the Jewish Torah! Those were Jewish laws.

KimuraWannabe116

August 12th, 2014, 11:01 PM

You commit a homosexual act, god condemns it, you commit a heterosexual act outside of marriage, god condemns it. You can ask for forgiveness of those sins, and Jesus forgets them, you have a clean slate. Of course everyone has different preferences that they just cannot change, but at the end of the day, if you don't abide by the Lords law, then its a sin. Though forgiveness is still the key word, as long as you mean it, and don't abuse it.

Heterosexuals, Bisexuals, Homosexuals, Lesbians, Trans etc. all can go to heaven through praying to the lord, and asking for forgiveness of your sins, and accepting him in your life. All sexual preference communities can go to hell to, yes including heteros. Its just a matter if you have the lord in your life. You could be the most wanted criminal on the face of the planet, who blew up an entire county, and still be saved by asking for forgiveness and having the lord be apart of your life.

The point is, it doesn't matter what you have done, as long as you ask for forgiveness and have the lord be apart of your life, that is the only way you can go to heaven. I respect people opinions, and they might beg to differ on mine, but this is the topic of the thread, and I gave out my opinion.

Gamma Male

August 13th, 2014, 02:26 AM

Living For Love

August 13th, 2014, 03:45 AM

Technically the first I believe eight books of the Bible are the Jewish Torah! Those were Jewish laws.

Not sure it the first eight books or the first five books, but either way, those laws still apply to Jewish nowadays, because they don't believe in the divinity of Jesus Christ. They think Jesus was a great man, who walked Earth, healed sick people, made the blind see and the crippled walk again, but they don't believe he was the Son of God, the true Messiah, the one the prophets told about. Therefore, they think Jesus had no authority to abolished the old Law, so they still follow it in some way.

Lovelife090994

August 13th, 2014, 04:49 AM

Not sure it the first eight books or the first five books, but either way, those laws still apply to Jewish nowadays, because they don't believe in the divinity of Jesus Christ. They think Jesus was a great man, who walked Earth, healed sick people, made the blind see and the crippled walk again, but they don't believe he was the Son of God, the true Messiah, the one the prophets told about. Therefore, they think Jesus had no authority to abolished the old Law, so they still follow it in some way.

Jewish beliefs seemed more Bible bound to me. The have many old laws, some gruesome, but I know Jews can longer perform sacrifices. I think they still await the Messiah, buut according to the Bible and to Christians Jesus fulfilled that prophecy which spawned the Bible's New Testaments in the first place which is why Christians pray to hhim. I know some Jewish beliefs that Christians typically do not follow such as the religious headcoverings and kosher foods.

So if I "sin" and don't ask for forgiveness? If I "sin" and than tell God he can go fuck himself for all I care, am I going to hell?

You missed the entire point aand thesis. And by the way you aren't supposed to curse God anyway. The basic way to get to God are TWO things, two simple things. Sincerity and forgiveness. God gaves both and responds to both. We are all welcome to God but we are not all bound for Heaven as the Bible states and as Jesus states. The only way to get to God is to do so in sincerity, you must mean it and want the relationship. You always should ask for forgiveness and forgive. Forgiveness starts with acceptence. If you can find at least one fault in yourself then you can find a thousand in others and work to not judge and correct your mistakes. We do not all have to be Christian and we are not all with God but we must all learn to live on this Earth before it's too late to change. And no I will not argue with you. It's not worth it.

CharlieHorse

August 13th, 2014, 05:02 AM

Lol nobody goes to heaven

Lovelife090994

August 13th, 2014, 06:29 AM

Lol nobody goes to heaven

How'd you make that assumption?

Harry Smith

August 13th, 2014, 06:32 AM

How'd you make that assumption?

because it probably doesn't exist

Lovelife090994

August 13th, 2014, 09:14 AM

because it probably doesn't exist

No, that's not it either. And it may not exist to you but in many religions not just the main three monotheistic religions of the world it does.

Harry Smith

August 13th, 2014, 09:30 AM

in many religions not just the main three monotheistic religions of the world it does.

The other religions think it exists

Hudor

August 13th, 2014, 11:27 AM

The priest says that watching porn and gay porn in particular will have big trouble to go into heaven after.

The Roman Catholic Church stand that's homosexual acts are impure and against nature :(

The priest scolded me for watching gay porn :(

Believing, worshipping and loving God is one thing and assuming authority on their behalf is another. I don't think the priest could possibly know who or what gets a place in heaven unless he has actually had a first-hand experience which I sincerely doubt.

I believe in God and I love him as a parent. By doing something good I contribute to the goodness in the world and take one step towards making the world the heaven I desire to be in and every time I commit a sin I take a step back.

However good deeds can't earn me credits that will facilitate my getting a better afterlife and neither do I think God says so. As i feel, every time I do a good thing, God feels happy to see I remember my responsibilities towards life and the living but he doesn't award me in any material sense for it . Similarly when I sin, I hurt God but that doesn't mean I am punished additionally for it, for in itself it is a punishment not being able to understand what is right or wrong for me.

I believe I am as close to God as the priest and I don't need nor want to be told how to nurture my relationship with Him.

Lovelife090994

August 13th, 2014, 11:33 AM

The other religions think it exists

Hah, this is hopeless. Good day sir.

CharlieHorse

August 13th, 2014, 01:16 PM

How'd you make that assumption?

How did you make the assumption that they do?

Lovelife090994

August 13th, 2014, 01:26 PM

How did you make the assumption that they do?

It's not an assumption.

CharlieHorse

August 13th, 2014, 08:50 PM

It's not an assumption.

then what is it? It's a belief based not on fact. How can it be anything other than an assumption?

Lovelife090994

August 13th, 2014, 11:10 PM

then what is it? It's a belief based not on fact. How can it be anything other than an assumption?

To you it may not be based on a fact. Which must be proven. You can't prove or disprove faith. Faith and fact are not the same. Faith is defined by one, facts are defined by many. But a belief is not blind. You have to know. That knowledge is by faith and faith by relationship and The Word not by what man can see. When you say it is an assumption that is all you who have little faith can call it because you simply don't grasp it. I know we all can go to Heaven because that is the backbone of Christianity and my faith that cannot be talked down. The whole point of Christianity is love and salvation, to the blind and the lost. The whole word doesn't have to follow it but it is your choice. Life and death are about choices. You choose to live a life of evil and putting yourself on a pedestal without once asking for forgiveness then you will probably be judged greatly for it. If you tried to live a good life and never once put yourself as a god of your own world and even if you did but you asked forgiveness then you may be saved. But you don't know what goes on in a person's life. We all have to speak for ourselves which is why arguing over beliefs is useless. You and I believe differently? Fine. But I can only speak for myself and for what my beliefs are, anyone else will simply have to do the same for themselves. If none of this got to you then don't bother replying with another one-sided dismissal.

DeadEyes

September 24th, 2014, 02:51 PM

No they will not go to heaven, nor to hell, for either of them exists.

Hideous

September 24th, 2014, 02:55 PM

I will go to the land of ice cream.

Aajj333

September 26th, 2014, 11:26 PM

Gamma Male

September 27th, 2014, 04:52 AM

http://www.theonion.com/articles/hell-now-a-thriving-epicenter-of-gay-culture,33928/

Hell sounds nice.

Miserabilia

September 27th, 2014, 03:00 PM

http://www.theonion.com/articles/hell-now-a-thriving-epicenter-of-gay-culture,33928/

Hell sounds nice.

That article made my day :lol:

DeadEyes

October 4th, 2014, 12:12 AM

I will go to the land of ice cream.

Mmm, I wish I go there too, the land of eternal ice cream, send me there NOW! Haha.

dakeep18

October 25th, 2014, 03:38 PM

I couldn't see why not?

normalperson

November 12th, 2014, 02:43 PM

First. Why does the priest know that you looked at gay porn?

Second (no offense to Christians). the catholic church(the organization not the religion) is a cancer that has attached itself to the minds of many, it is hypocritical in it's policy's and it's "beliefs" without going any further i will tell you that one of those policy's is it's stance towards homosexuality it went from killing homosexuals to ignoring them to "accepting" them "as they are". anyways ignore that snake pit, for "who is the bigger fool? the fool or the one who follows him?"

anybody who is not happy (to say the least) about what i have posted feel free to debate it with me, i respect everyone else views! :D

Zachary G

November 12th, 2014, 03:53 PM

The priest says that watching porn and gay porn in particular will have big trouble to go into heaven after.

The Roman Catholic Church stand that's homosexual acts are impure and against nature :(

The priest scolded me for watching gay porn :(

the question is, what do you believe? what you believe is all that really matters:metal:

DeadEyes

November 12th, 2014, 04:08 PM

what you believe is all that really matters

Some would answer that reality doesn't care about your beliefs, but since no one knows for sure about afterlife, I suppose you can only rely on your beliefs on that matter.

Aajj333

November 12th, 2014, 11:20 PM

You get drafted into the skeleton war

fairmaiden

November 14th, 2014, 02:29 PM

I'm religious; however I believe that all bisexual and gay/lesbian people will go to heaven, as in my opinion God created and loves all.

DeadEyes

November 14th, 2014, 05:01 PM

I believe that all bisexual and gay/lesbian people will go to heaven, as in my opinion God created and loves all.

The bible is supposed to be the word of god, and it clearly says in it they will go to that so called hell.

Snydergate

November 14th, 2014, 05:19 PM

I am religious, but I think homosexuality is perfectly fine. In my opinion if God created people and some people are gay, then I think God is just a little gay himself.

DeadEyes

November 14th, 2014, 06:37 PM

if God created people and some people are gay, then I think God is just a little gay himself.

Since we are supposed to be in his own image right? You know, that's a really good one, I never saw it before.
So when god had written in the bible homosexuality is a sin, maybe he just didn't accept his gay tendencies then?

Snydergate

November 14th, 2014, 08:13 PM

Since we are supposed to be in his own image right? You know, that's a really good one, I never saw it before.
So when god had written in the bible homosexuality is a sin, maybe he just didn't accept his gay tendencies then?

Well God did not write the bible, each book in the bible was written by different people. Moses it believed to have written the book of Leviticus in which it says homosexuality is wrong. So Moses may have either gotten the wrong idea or it was his opinion.

DeadEyes

November 14th, 2014, 09:03 PM

Well God did not write the bible, each book in the bible was written by different people.

The apostles, I know that. What you seem to not know though (or choose to ignore) is the twelve apostles wrote the bible based on what Jesus told them was the words of his supposed father, god. And so, god told Jesus to tell his apostle to write in the bible homosexuality is a deadly sin.

Snydergate

November 14th, 2014, 09:20 PM

The apostles, I know that. What you seem to not know though (or choose to ignore) is the twelve apostles wrote the bible based on what Jesus told them was the words of his supposed father, god. And so, god told Jesus to tell his apostle to write in the bible homosexuality is a deadly sin.

Oh yeah, well things were different back then, the way people lived, governments and all that are much different now adays. Besides, homosexuality is not mentioned anywhere near the Ten Commandments and is not one of the Seven Deadly Sins and as far as I can remember is only mentioned once in the bible, it is no big deal. Besides the bible also says that eating pork is terrible too as well as cutting hair.

DeadEyes

November 14th, 2014, 09:28 PM

Oh yeah, well things were different back then, the way people lived, governments and all that are much different now adays. Besides, homosexuality is not mentioned anywhere near the Ten Commandments and is not one of the Seven Deadly Sins and as far as I can remember is only mentioned once in the bible, it is no big deal. Besides the bible also says that eating pork is terrible too as well as cutting hair.

You are saying the bible doesn't make sense then.

Nescio

November 14th, 2014, 11:48 PM

There is nothing wrong with the sexuality God supposedly gave you. If you feel like it's okay, and it doesn't harm anyone else, then it's okay.

DeadEyes

November 15th, 2014, 12:29 AM

I really don't see how Christians can deny or minimise it's clearly written in their so called holy book that you're going to hell for having gay sex (living in sin).

Atom

November 16th, 2014, 09:27 AM

Do christians forget how their own religion works? No, you won't go to hell for watching gay porn. Jeffrey Dahmer accepted God in his life and was saved.

phuckphace

November 16th, 2014, 10:16 AM

why even have this debate, honestly?

> some Christians will say yes
> some Christians will say no
> antitheist kru will say "hurr heaven isn't real use your brains sheep"
x infinity

since there's no way for us to definitively confirm or deny if Heaven exists and who goes there, it's kinda pointless to argue about it imho

cbm89031

November 17th, 2014, 10:07 AM

Every one will go to heaven as long as you make right decisions

Leprous

November 17th, 2014, 10:21 AM

phuckphace

November 17th, 2014, 11:11 AM

Not all of us atheists are like that.....we're not all jerks, you know.

I didn't say atheists, I said antitheists. an atheist is somebody who believes there is no God, while an antitheist is a petty crusader against religion and attributes every bad thing that has ever happened to the evil bigot Christians and their totally illogical(!) sky-buddy.

I'm an atheist but I think people are generally better off if they have something to believe in. no it may not be logical in the strict sense, but hey, whatever works.

Captain Canada

November 17th, 2014, 11:47 AM

Well...if God considers being homosexual and bisexual a sin, why did he give humans the free will to choose who they like and have sex with?
Back to the original question, no, believe what you want to believe. If you dont believe those who like the same gender or like both genders will go to heaven, believe that. If you think they go to hell, believe that. But don't base your beliefs off of those who try to corrupt your mind with those one sided thoughts.

Leprous

November 17th, 2014, 12:08 PM

I didn't say atheists, I said antitheists. an atheist is somebody who believes there is no God, while an antitheist is a petty crusader against religion and attributes every bad thing that has ever happened to the evil bigot Christians and their totally illogical(!) sky-buddy.

I'm an atheist but I think people are generally better off if they have something to believe in. no it may not be logical in the strict sense, but hey, whatever works.

Woops, then I read that wrong, sorry!

DeadEyes

November 17th, 2014, 08:00 PM

Well...if God considers being homosexual and bisexual a sin, why did he give humans the free will to choose who they like and have sex with?

Sexual orientation is not a choice.

Captain Canada

November 17th, 2014, 08:05 PM

Sexual orientation is not a choice.

I didn't say it was. I meant "If God doesn't like gays, why did he allow humans to think for themselves and decide to have sex with the same gender?" AKA "Homosexual acts"

DeadEyes

November 17th, 2014, 08:11 PM

I didn't say it was. I meant "If God doesn't like gays, why did he allow humans to think for themselves and decide to have sex with the same gender?" AKA "Homosexual acts"

It's worse than that, if such a god is the creator of all living things he made some people gay, like some homosexuals like to say "god made me gay" (you can even read that on t-shirts) so, he made some people gay and said it was a sin, just to watch them deal with that, like lab rats. Very loving that "god," indeed.

Captain Canada

November 17th, 2014, 08:15 PM

It's worse than that, if such a god is the creator of all living things he made some people gay, like some homosexuals like to say "god made me gay" (you can even read that on t-shirts) so, he made some people gay and said it was a sin, just to watch them deal with that, like lab rats. Very loving that "god," indeed.

The whole idea of loving someone being considered a "sin" is just ridiculous...So God is telling me that loving a girl is as bad as murder? Total BS in my opinion.

HSJock206

November 17th, 2014, 08:31 PM

Funny how something so ridiculous is posted on a thread with this heading. Wise I think not.

DeadEyes

November 17th, 2014, 08:36 PM

Funny how something so ridiculous is posted on a thread with this heading. Wise I think not.

What are you even talking about?

The whole idea of loving someone being considered a "sin" is just ridiculous...So God is telling me that loving a girl is as bad as murder? Total BS in my opinion.

It's the whole concept of sin that is just ridiculous, if you ask me.

Uranus

November 17th, 2014, 08:41 PM

Every one will go to heaven as long as you make right decisions

Well said bro. That's a good point

DeadEyes

November 17th, 2014, 08:44 PM

Every one will go to heaven as long as you make right decisions

Well said bro. That's a good point

And having gay sex, is not the right decision, according to the bible.

cbm89031

November 17th, 2014, 08:46 PM

Thanks @YungMerkMMR

Uranus

November 17th, 2014, 09:06 PM

And having gay sex, is not the right decision, according to the bible.

...your saying what?

Thanks @YungMerkMMR

No problem!

Semi_IronMan

November 26th, 2014, 11:54 AM

Porn is porn. And how does the priest decide who goes to heaven or not? If a person who steals can go 2 heaven then I think a LGBT person can also go to heaven. In God's eyes a sin a sin, no sin is worse than the other

Batman42

November 28th, 2014, 09:10 PM

I think there fine

NewZealand

December 1st, 2014, 02:14 PM

The priest says that watching porn and gay porn in particular will have big trouble to go into heaven after.

The Roman Catholic Church stand that's homosexual acts are impure and against nature :(

The priest scolded me for watching gay porn :(

Perhaps the priest and all Christian homophobes will have trouble getting into heaven. Judging is a much worse sin!

Arkansasguy

December 29th, 2014, 02:22 PM

The priest says that watching porn and gay porn in particular will have big trouble to go into heaven after.

The Roman Catholic Church stand that's homosexual acts are impure and against nature :(

The priest scolded me for watching gay porn :(

Watching pornography and/or engaging in homosexual acts are both grave sins which could endanger your salvation if you commit them without repenting.

Note that whatever you reveal in confession can never be repeated, or in any way used against you.

randomuser123

January 2nd, 2015, 06:58 PM

This thread is why as a general rule I am anti-theist. Almost all religions promote some form of inequality as they try and force you to conform to their narrow-minded, self-righteous views. I think that in today's modern world, it is outrageous, inappropriate and frankly pretty uninformed and moronic to even suggest that trying to experience pleasure is wrong.

For many people, sex is nothing more than that - a means of experiencing pleasure. Yes, there are risks associated with it, such as STDs and accidental pregnancy, but there are preventative measures that can be taken and that have been around for hundreds of years.

Being against having sex for pleasure, is akin to being against someone gaining pleasure from having their back scratched. We live in a world where we are (relatively) free to do as we please, as long as it does not affect others and this is how I think it ought to be.

Yes, sex is useful for procreating and continuing the survival of our species, and while I agree that people should most certainly be educated on the subject of contraception and safe sex, ultimately, when you undertake the act of having sex you are agreeing to be responsible for whatever becomes of it, whether that is chlamydia or a child.

Even if there is a God, a God that believes that homosexuality (a trait that is present in apes and other animals) is wrong, and who explicitly states that it is a sin to have sex before marriage and use contraception (which allow people to show love to one another), I am not sure he is a God that I want to respect or even acknowledge. I think that belief in a God, certainly in this age, is detrimental to equality in society of women, gays and many other minority groups.

Jem310

January 3rd, 2015, 07:09 AM

No offense but your priest is full of shit. Heaven is not based off who you are, what you are, your likes/dislikes, etc. it is based off of who you believe your savior is. Even Pope Francis said, " if a gay person seeks God, who am I to judge him?"

Sir Enigma

January 3rd, 2015, 09:59 AM

I like talking to christians about sexual things. They are so blind i laugh so hard.
When i saw the title of this post I laughed untill tears came.
Good thing I that in my church we have pretty relaxed priests who are just fine with gay and bisexual people. They treat em the same because we are all brothers and sisters.
Im not christian but I still go to church because there are some wise words in there, believe it or not. And thats my only reason to wake up on sunday. xD
But, back on topic...

Guys, avoid arguments with hard believers. YOU WILL NOT PENETRATE THEIR BLINDNESS.
Believe me people, i tried everything, they are just blind. You cant help weak-willed people...
For all those other christians who are fine with LGBT - YOU ROCK MATE! ;)