Abortion- good or bad?

[jessie3]

Do you believe in abortion? If yes, then why? Do you think it is a good thing for our population since there is more then 7 billion people on earth? Do you think the government should step in on weather or not you should be allowed to have one? Would you have an abortion?

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In my opinion I think abortion is a bad thing because you should just own up to your problem of you having unprotected sex but then at again its not the governments issue to tell a woman if she should be allowed to have an abortion or not.

[TheN3rdyOutcast]

Oh dear, here comes THIS argument again.

I believe that women should be able to have an abortion because it's their body, and it's not really a bunch of grody old congressmen' jobs to tell her that she can't. HOWEVER, there should be a limit on how late the abortion can happen. For instance, a 38 weeks pregnant woman shouldn't be able to get an abortion, because the baby is almost fully developed by then, unless, the baby has a serious defect that could cause it pain and agony after birth. Also, abortions must be done by humane methods.

That's my two cents on the issue.

[trustn01]

I believe that all abortions should be illegal unless the child is the result of rape, can seriously damage the mother or the mother is underage, in which case abortions should be mandatory.

[Vlerchan]

Do you believe in abortion?

I believe that woman should be allowed to have an abortion at any time during her pregnancy.

I at the same time believe that the government should a) sponsor safe-sex programmes in schools (not including abstinence-only programmes: proper programmes) and b) both subsidize certain forms of contraception (i.e., condoms) and provide for free at all GPs others (i.e., the pill and the coil), in order to reduce the number of abortions that are actually necessary to as few as possible.

If yes, then why?

I don't believe that the others should have a say in what goes in with woman's bodies.

This includes partners etc.

Do you think it is a good thing for our population since there is more then 7 billion people on earth?

I believe that the population needs to stabilise, yes.

Do you think the government should step in on weather or not you should be allowed to have one?

Not at all.

Would you have an abortion?

I don't believe I can.

[UnknownError]

I think abortions are fine and should be legalised everywhere. There really isn't any reason why they shouldn't be, if you don't want one, don't have one. Don't stop someone else from doing what they want to do just because you don't agree with it.

[Stronk Serb]

I believe that all abortions should be illegal unless the child is the result of rape, can seriously damage the mother or the mother is underage, in which case abortions should be mandatory.

Then women will go to abortion doctors illegally and have abortions done in very bad conditions, like in a dirty van in an alley in a gang part of town. If they wanna do it, they should at least do it safe. Also put limits at which time of pregnancy the abprtion should be done.

[Typhlosion]

because you should just own up to your problem of you having unprotected sex
Really? You are aware that not everyone uses contraceptive methods in the ideal way, so that even using those aren't a guarantee that you'll be pregnant. Condom efficiency? I'll wikipedia it.
With proper knowledge and application technique—and use at every act of intercourse—women whose partners use male condoms experience a 2% per-year pregnancy rate with perfect use and an 18% per-year pregnancy rate with typical use
That's ridiculously high. It isn't 2 in a million cases, its 2 out of 100. That is absurd. You could use more than one, maybe even 3 contraceptive methods, but you will always be at risk in becoming pregnant.

It's not only the woman's body, it's the woman's life. It's cruel to force motherhood on someone not yet prepared, and it's also wrong to say "yeah well put it for adoption". Both lives will be ruined, the mother may lose all her potential in life because of the child, and/or, the child's life ruined by an incapable and/or unsupportive mother.

I do believe that there should be a time restriction, up to the first four months abortion may be legal. Beyond that, then it starts getting iffy.

Also, final complaint. If people argue that the fetus is a living thing, why isn't it officially registered upon acknowledgment that the fetus exists? Why aren't you fighting for fetal rights beyond abortion.

Fun fact: there are more men than woman against abortion.

[trustn01]

Then women will go to abortion doctors illegally and have abortions done in very bad conditions, like in a dirty van in an alley in a gang part of town. If they wanna do it, they should at least do it safe. Also put limits at which time of pregnancy the abprtion should be done.

With all due respect, the same thing can be sad about anything, from alcohol and other drugs to guns to euthanasia.

[Vlerchan]

I believe that all abortions should be illegal unless the child is the result of rape, can seriously damage the mother or the mother is underage, in which case abortions should be mandatory.
Wait, would you mind explaining the logic behind your views here?

I'm not quite sure how you could make this seem logically consistent in your head.

[Lovelife090994]

I don't like abortion. To me it should be illegal past a certain point in the pregnancy. If you were raped, then get one early, but saying 7 months in "I don't want this baby" is terrible. Imagine the husband now, his wife would abort his baby and get away with it.

[trustn01]

Wait, would you mind explaining the logic behind your views here?

I'm not quite sure how you could make this seem logically consistent in your head.

Easy logic - if a man rapes, he commits a sexual crime. In order to prevent that happening again, he and his child, who someone was forcefully impregnated with, should be expunged from society.
If a woman is be killed/harmed during pregnancy/birth, she cannot produce more children. A woman who can produce children is more valuable than a single child. Of course, there are exceptions, such as if the woman cannot give birth at all without serious complications.
And underage - these women don't know how to take care of a child, and are not in any way ready and/or responsible enough to raise a child.
In all other cases, children and vitally important to the growth and survival of the human race, and as such should be conserved.

[Vlerchan]

In order to prevent that happening again, he and his child, who someone was forcefully impregnated with, should be expunged from society.
I presume you've evidence that supports your implied claim that babies conceived through rape are more likely to be rapists.

---

I'm not going to discuss your committing of the man-in-question to death because it's off-topic.

And underage - these women don't know how to take care of a child, and are not in any way ready and/or responsible enough to raise a child.
If she has no help, and in your opinion.

The above are both important pre-conditions.

In all other cases, children and vitally important to the growth and survival of the human race, and as such should be conserved.
It seems like me that the human race could get along fine with the 20% (http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_induced_abortion.html) of pregnancies resulting in abortions still resulting in abortions.

I'd actually consider the human race being damaged by overpopulation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_overpopulation#Effects_of_human_overpopulation) the bigger problem here.

---

I also agree that your logic is easy. You don't believe that killing foetus is immoral, you just place a profound overemphasis on continued population growth.

[Blood]

Do you believe in abortion? Yes, I believe that anyone who is pregnant should have the option to abort their pregnancy.

If yes, then why? Because I have a right to control what happens with my body.

Do you think it is a good thing for our population since there is more then 7 billion people on earth? I suppose so.

Do you think the government should step in on weather or not you should be allowed to have one? Absolutely not.

Would you have an abortion? If I found myself in a position where an abortion would be in my best interest, yes.

[Gamma Male]

The "children are important" line is ridiculous. There are WAAAAYYY too many people here as is. We need to be encouraging people to have less children, not more. Or better yet, adopt some of the unwanted children who are already here. Overpopulation is a serious issue and the "more children is better" logic doesn't hold up.




I believe abortion should be legal and free for everyone. Science shows that fetuses are not sentient. I don't see why they should be regarded any differently than kidneys or lungs.

[Baseball1999]

In my opinion I think abortion is a bad thing because you should just own up to your problem of you having unprotected sex but then at again its not the governments issue to tell a woman if she should be allowed to have an abortion or not.
I completely agree.

[Hyper]

Wtf really.

Wtf really is there to ''believe in''

Abortion is a medical procedure. Is it right or wrong? I think that's a stupid question as well I have a hard time marking something down as inherently wrong.

I do not particularily like the thought of abortion BUT I realize there are different circumstances and sometimes abortion can be preferrable to a ''bad situation''

Also I do not believe that someone should be able to tell you what you can or can not do with your body.

There are of course exceptions here i.e father wants the child mother doesn't, I am not into the whole ''it's a woman's body'' BS, it is a woman's body but it is not always a decision that affects just her alone.

[CharlieHorse]

I don't think i have much of a voice on this issue because i'm a guy, and i'll never have to make this choice, but i believe that women should have the right of choice when it comes to abortion.

[coolkid016]

Oh dear, here comes THIS argument again.

I believe that women should be able to have an abortion because it's their body, and it's not really a bunch of grody old congressmen' jobs to tell her that she can't. HOWEVER, there should be a limit on how late the abortion can happen. For instance, a 38 weeks pregnant woman shouldn't be able to get an abortion, because the baby is almost fully developed by then, unless, the baby has a serious defect that could cause it pain and agony after birth. Also, abortions must be done by humane methods.

That's my two cents on the issue.

wow is all i can say.. i have to agree with him

[Goatzbro]

Do you believe in abortion? Yes, 100% I believe in a woman's right to abortion.

If yes, then why? Due to population problems and the fact that the other side of the argument is based on christian propaganda. Also there are numerous social issues that would be solved if there were less babies born into unhealthy circumstances.

Do you think it is a good thing for our population since there is more then 7 billion people on earth? 100%

Do you think the government should step in on weather or not you should be allowed to have one? No, read the book "A Handmaiden's Tale" by Margaret Atwood and you will understand.

Would you have an abortion? Not a woman so no.

[Harry Smith]

oh no

[Stronk Serb]

With all due respect, the same thing can be sad about anything, from alcohol and other drugs to guns to euthanasia.

Yes, thet's why the should be decriminalized with goals for future legalisation, except I wouldheavilyregukate guns.

[EmilyD4]

Do you believe in abortion? Yes, I believe that anyone who is pregnant should have the option to abort their pregnancy.

If yes, then why? Because I have a right to control what happens with my body.

Do you think it is a good thing for our population since there is more then 7 billion people on earth? I suppose so.

Do you think the government should step in on weather or not you should be allowed to have one? Absolutely not.

Would you have an abortion? If I found myself in a position where an abortion would be in my best interest, yes.

Agree 100%

[Vlerchan]

There are of course exceptions here i.e father wants the child mother doesn't, I am not into the whole ''it's a woman's body'' BS, it is a woman's body but it is not always a decision that affects just her alone.
I have no idea why the father's 'potentially hurt feelings' should take precedence over the mother's 'bodily integrity'.

It's rare that a decision just affects the decision maker yet we don't have regulation and legally-mandated second opinions cropping up in every other aspect of our lives.

---

I also must ask if there's exceptions made for rapists here? Or do we take their feelings into account on the issue too?

And, by your logic, can a father also force a woman to get an abortion?

[Miserabilia]

"good" and "bad"... Aren't really good terms to describe a question this complicated.
Do I 'beleive" in abortion?
I think that if the feutus is still young a woman should be able to abort it, and IF there would have to be restrictions, she should still be allowed to do it if she was raped.

[Goatzbro]

There are of course exceptions here i.e father wants the child mother doesn't, I am not into the whole ''it's a woman's body'' BS, it is a woman's body but it is not always a decision that affects just her alone.
That is not effective logic because although on the surface it seems to make sense, in reality it's just disguising how misogynist your viewpoint is. Women have EVERY right to their body, and the men has 0 right to their body.

[Hyper]

I have no idea why the father's 'potentially hurt feelings' should take precedence over the mother's 'bodily integrity'.

It's rare that a decision just affects the decision maker yet we don't have regulation and legally-mandated second opinions cropping up in every other aspect of our lives.

---

I also must ask if there's exceptions made for rapists here? Or do we take their feelings into account on the issue too?

And, by your logic, can a father also force a woman to get an abortion?

I'd like it if you didn't assume I was retarded - that's my response for the ''rapists feelings'' question.

The question was is it ''Good or bad'' and that's the answer it's neither. It's circumstansial the fathers feelings matter and should matter. How that could be achieved practically (legally) I have no clue.

As for whoever said my viewpoint is misogynistic... Get real.

If a man and a woman both are willingly in a relationship and willingly conceive it should not be a ''woman's right'' to go and terminate the pregnancy. It should be at least something that could be contested on grounds of mental health.

Also apologize if this is too necroish of a reply.

[SmokyChica]

Personally, even though I am a woman myself, I do not think an abortion is something that people should do. It is not the woman's choice since she is dealing with another life in the matter, and deciding whether or not to end it without giving it a chance. There are other options, such as adoption, and I don't think it's fair for a woman to stop a life from being born.

[Gamma Male]

and I don't think it's fair for a woman to stop a life from being born.

If this is your only objection, it makes no sense. For every second you are not out there procreating you are preventing lives from being born.

[Vlerchan]

I'd like it if you didn't assume I was retarded - that's my response for the ''rapists feelings'' question.
I have no idea how attempting to inquire into your position could give the impression I believe/assume you're retarded.

If a man and a woman both are willingly in a relationship and willingly conceive it should not be a ''woman's right'' to go and terminate the pregnancy.
What do you mean by 'willingly conceive'?

I also have no idea how that might eliminate the woman's right to control over her own body.

---

You also missed the main stab of my post which was my point that actions never just affect the one committing the action, so where the idea that we can just pluck this single instance of from all the other occurrences came from I'm not sure.

It is not the woman's choice since she is dealing with another life in the matter, and deciding whether or not to end it without giving it a chance.
Do you feel it's right that one can use their right to life as leverage to deny another their own rights?

[SmokyChica]

I think that just because a woman is pregnant at the wrong time doesn't mean she should have an abortion. She should have considered this before she had sex, and is now responsible for this baby and his/her life. Adoption is always an option when it comes to things like this, and I don't think it's fair for the baby to just be killed.

[Bleid]

I think that just because a woman is pregnant at the wrong time doesn't mean she should have an abortion. She should have considered this before she had sex, and is now responsible for this baby and his/her life. Adoption is always an option when it comes to things like this, and I don't think it's fair for the baby to just be killed.

I could ask you "When do you consider it a human being?" because that seems to be of issue here. But to be honest, I don't really have any interest in having that question answered and the only purpose of my asking it would be to get you to say things for me to take issue with.

I will instead ask you to consider for a moment this situation:
A perfectly healthy, fertile woman is ovulating - that is, a mature egg is expelled from her ovary and is pushed down her fallopian tube, ready to be fertilized by a male. She also has the availability of a male mate who would be willing to lay with her in order to fertilize the egg.
At this time, the fact of the matter is that this woman has just as much potential for bringing a human being to life in this world that a woman whom is 3 months pregnant or even 8 months pregnant has towards doing so.

Now, you wouldn't be bothered by the ovulating woman if she willingly chose to not have sex with a male and become pregnant, would you?

So I ask you, what bothers you specifically about the choice for abortion? Since, the choice of whether a life exists is present in both of those situations, so I'd say it very well couldn't be that, or we'd have some inconsistent beliefs.

[Babs]

I hate the "only if raped" logic. Jussayin'.
Also, for the record, abortion IS illegal past a certain point, unless it's an emergency.
Even if it was consensual and unprotected sex, every woman should have the right to the abortion, because its HER body. The fetus isn't hurt, it doesn't have feelings, it doesn't even have a brain before the dead line for a legal abortion. Sometimes it's the best choice. Because 9 months of pregnancy and childbirth are a huge physical and emotional toll, there are already thousands of kids circling aroung in foster homes, not to mention homeless youth.
Even if you personally wouldn't get an abortion, you have no right to try to dictate other womens' bodies.

[kanine]

Do l think abortions should be legal? Yes. With restrictions. I believe that abortions should only be allowed if any of the following criteria is met: The child is the result of rape, The child can kill the mother if born, the mother is in actual danger from any other people because of the baby, the baby is no older than two weeks after being discovered (thats an estimate, as long as it isnt basically a human being yet its okay).
Why do I believe this?: Because if that thing is going to kill her, get her killed, or ruin her life because of some sicko, it needs to at least he an option for her to get rid of it. I don't much care for the argument that its not the babys fault, because for 1, in the time I gave them its just a collection of cells, and 2, in my list its not the mothers fault she either got pregnant in the first place or cant carry it.
Would I get an abortion?: No. Because I would feel super quilty with all the people around me calling me a murderer.
Also yeah our population is way to high, we need to start regulating somehow.

[Lost in the Echo]

I can definitely understand both sides of the argument, but personally, I definitely wouldn't want the girl I'm with to abort our baby. Keep in mind, it's not just her baby, but mine too.
I don't think a woman should be allowed to have an abortion without the consent of the father, unless it was rape or anything under a similar circumstance.

[Giando]

I think abortions are good, because there could be some "accidents", and I also think it's better to ""kill"" a person before he realise to exist than making his life more difficult with something like the adoption

[Broken Toy]

Well i think abortions are good because pro-lifers (or whatever theyre called) would rather see a mother who cant support her son than a woman who is trying to make ends meet until she is ready.
Abortions are good because:
Rape can cause pregnancy
Might not be ready
Accident
If a partner dies they might not be able to cope

[Vlerchan]

The fetus isn't hurt, it doesn't have feelings, it doesn't even have a brain before the dead line for a legal abortion.
Should the woman's "right to the abortion, because its HER body" not extend past the "dead line"? in your opinion.

edit: Evidence for whether or not the fetus is hurt is also tending towards a 'yes' 20 or so weeks in, which is the deadline in several US states is.

[Babs]

Should the woman's "right to the abortion, because its HER body" not extend past the "dead line"? in your opinion.

edit: Evidence for whether or not the fetus is hurt is also tending towards a 'yes' 20 or so weeks in, which is the deadline in several US states is.

That's a good question.
I believe the deadline is in place for a reason. There is a point in the pregnancy where the fetus becomes concious at some compacity. I believe abortion past tthe legal deadline should only be done during a life-threatening/altering emergency.
The fetus feeling pain past 20 weeks is the reason for the deadline. So I think there should be a deadline.

[Vlerchan]

The fetus feeling pain past 20 weeks is the reason for the deadline. So I think there should be a deadline.
Right but you said:

"Even if you personally wouldn't get an abortion, you have no right to try to dictate other womens' bodies."

[Babs]

Right but you said:

"Even if you personally wouldn't get an abortion, you have no right to try to dictate other womens' bodies."

Sorry, I could have phrased that better.
I don't mean that in the sense that I want to abolish deadlines, I mean that women should have the right to safe, legal abortions, with the guidelines that are in place, because they are there for safety reasons.

[Vlerchan]

I don't mean that in the sense that I want to abolish deadlines, I mean that women should have the right to safe, legal abortions, with the guidelines that are in place, because they are there for safety reasons.
So you do believe that the community-at-large should have the right to dictate what happens with woman's bodies. Because once you set a date on when woman can have abortions (i.e., it's illegal after 20 weeks) then you're restricting them in their right to bodily autonomy. Of course since 99% of abortions are occurring before 20 weeks (http://takingnote.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/07/10/whats-wrong-with-a-20-week-abortion-ban/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0) already your position isn't that disagreeable.

---

I'm not an expert on abortions but I gathered that the 20 week deadline has nothing to do with keeping woman safe. As far as I'm aware whilst there's a greater risk with later abortions all procedures regardless of timing are relatively safe for a healthy adult to take (danger's in the sedative). When people argue that abortions should not take place after 20 weeks it's generally done on the basis of the fetus' 'feelings'.

[Babs]

So you do believe that the community-at-large should have the right to dictate what happens with woman's bodies. Because once you set a date on when woman can have abortions (i.e., it's illegal after 20 weeks) then you're restricting them in their right to bodily autonomy. Of course since 99% of abortions are occurring before 20 weeks (http://takingnote.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/07/10/whats-wrong-with-a-20-week-abortion-ban/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0) already your position isn't that disagreeable.

---

I'm not an expert on abortions but I gathered that the 20 week deadline has nothing to do with keeping woman safe. As far as I'm aware whilst there's a greater risk with later abortions all procedures regardless of timing are relatively safe for a healthy adult to take (danger's in the sedative). When people argue that abortions should not take place after 20 weeks it's generally done on the basis of the fetus' 'feelings'.

Well then I stand corrected.
If there should be a deadline, I don't think 20 weeks should be it.
By my original statement, I meant that people shouldn't have the right to take a way a woman's right to an abortion entirely. Nor do I believe that 20 weeks is necessarily the latest an abortion should legally be allowed to happen.

[Croconaw]

Yes. I believe that women should be able to do what they want. They're the ones getting pregnant.

[Southside]

Yes. I believe that women should be able to do what they want. They're the ones getting pregnant.

Do you believe the male should have a say in the abortion as long as he isn't a rapist?

[Vlerchan]

Do you believe the male should have a say in the abortion as long as he isn't a rapist?
I again still amn't sure of the reasoning behind this.

[crazyBoyjJ]

No I don't believe in abortion cause u are murdering a life that can be prosperous in the future. Their killing babies. It's very cruel.

[Croconaw]

Do you believe the male should have a say in the abortion as long as he isn't a rapist?

He can. Although, it is still the woman's choice.

[Miserabilia]

No I don't believe in abortion cause u are murdering a life that can be prosperous in the future. Their killing babies. It's very cruel.

What's cruel about killing something unintelligent that has no feelings thoughts or consciousness whatsoever?
Is it cruel to kill a potato??
Don't start about "prosperous in the future".
This counts for every egg and sperm cell ever.

[Gamma Male]

No I don't believe in abortion cause u are murdering a life that can be prosperous in the future. Their killing babies. It's very cruel.

There seems to be two points to your post.

1 It is wrong to kill fetuses because they are already worthy of moral consideration.

And 2 You are preventing a life from ever happening, which is immoral.


Neither of these make any sense. Science has conclusively shown that fetuses under 25 weeks(which is when virtually all abortions occur) lack consciousness and the ability to feel pain and emotion. They are able to react to stimuli because at this stage their nerve systems and brains are partially developed, but they don't actually feel anything because the parts of the brain that deal with emotion and pain aren't developed enough. "killing" a fetus is really no different than "killing" a diseased kidney. I can expand on this and show you all the data backing my claims if you like.


And 2 just isn't logically consistent. For every second we are not out there having unprotected sex and attempting to increase the world's population, we are preventing lives from existing. Is that unethical of us?

[Neverender]

It's fine. Women have power over their own bodies.

Even if some people think it's ethically wrong women still deserve this right.

[crazyBoyjJ]

What's cruel about killing something unintelligent that has no feelings thoughts or consciousness whatsoever?
Is it cruel to kill a potato??
Don't start about "prosperous in the future".
This counts for every egg and sperm cell ever.

There seems to be two points to your post.

1 It is wrong to kill fetuses because they are already worthy of moral consideration.

And 2 You are preventing a life from ever happening, which is immoral.


Neither of these make any sense. Science has conclusively shown that fetuses under 25 weeks(which is when virtually all abortions occur) lack consciousness and the ability to feel pain and emotion. They are able to react to stimuli because at this stage their nerve systems and brains are partially developed, but they don't actually feel anything because the parts of the brain that deal with emotion and pain aren't developed enough. "killing" a fetus is really no different than "killing" a diseased kidney. I can expand on this and show you all the data backing my claims if you like.


And 2 just isn't logically consistent. For every second we are not out there having unprotected sex and attempting to increase the world's population, we are preventing lives from existing. Is that unethical of us?

One person is using science as a factor. And the other person is plain out ignorant. Firstly I like to say that a fetus has a heartbeat at 6 weeks with a developing brain and other parts of the fetus. So yes you are still killing in other forms of a development process.
Secondly does a potato live. Does a potato have a brain and organs, NO!!! so don't use a plant or root or ground provisions as examples cause that's just stupidity.

And have any of you ever did a research on the after effect mentally and physically of what a woman goes through after an abortion. THINK ABOUT IT. THATS ALL.

[Gamma Male]

Firstly I like to say that a fetus has a heartbeat at 6 weeks with a developing brain and other parts of the fetus. So yes you are still killing in other forms of a development process.
Yes, they have heartbeats and their brains are partially developed. I fail to see how any of that is relevant. If they can't feel pain, or fear, or desire, or any emotion at all, and they have no memories, why is it unethical to kill them?


Secondly does a potato live. Does a potato have a brain and organs, NO!!! so don't use a plant or root or ground provisions as examples cause that's just stupidity.
The comparison he was drawing between potatoes and fetuses stemmed from the fact that while both are alive, neither are sentient.

And have any of you ever did a research on the after effect mentally and physically of what a woman goes through after an abortion. THINK ABOUT IT. THATS ALL.

I would wager that if the negative stigma surrounding abortion were done away with and we no longer shunned women who have abortions much of that would go away. Similar to how gays are more likely to suffer from depression. It's not because they're gay, it's because of the way they're treated for being gay.

[Lovelife090994]

Yes, they have heartbeats and their brains are partially developed. I fail to see how any of that is relevant. If they can't feel pain, or fear, or desire, or any emotion at all, and they have no memories, why is it unethical to kill them?



The comparison he was drawing between potatoes and fetuses stemmed from the fact that while both are alive, neither are sentient.



I would wager that if the negative stigma surrounding abortion were done away with and we no longer shunned women who have abortions much of that would go away. Similar to how gays are more likely to suffer from depression. It's not because they're gay, it's because of the way they're treated for being gay.

You sound like a murderer. A potato is a plant, a heartbeat and brain is indicative of life, life that can prosper and has a mind. Abortions put people through the ringer. How'd you feel if you were married and 8 and a half months in your wife aborts the baby without you knowing? And gay this gay that, all people face depression, it doesn't matter what you sleep with. Besides, why is it so important that sentience is in this? It's a human fetus! Why would you kill it? Go through the carry and birth and give the child to a family who could never have kids because the husband or wife is barren.

[Miserabilia]

Firstly I like to say that a fetus has a heartbeat at 6 weeks with a developing brain and other parts of the fetus.

So? Does a heartbeat magicaly give it thoughts feelings consciousness and make it sentient? It does not. And ofcourse the brain is developing; every part of a feutus is developing. This does not mean it's sentient in any way or form. Bring me proof a feutus can
-feel
-think
-is conscious
then I could atleast concider taking that argument serious.



Secondly does a potato live. Does a potato have a brain and organs, NO!!! so don't use a plant or root or ground provisions as examples cause that's just stupidity.



- calling out on stupidity
- appearently not knowing basic biology
A plant has organs.
A plants does not have a brain;
however a plant is still alive. Some plants have actualy forms of primitive communication and in a way, "intelligence".
Plants are alive and non sentient. Feutuses are alive and non sentient.
That's the point of the comparison.





And have any of you ever did a research on the after effect mentally and physically of what a woman goes through after an abortion. THINK ABOUT IT. THATS ALL.

RIght, it's probably much better to have a baby that will be abused, abandonned, left, given away into a horrible foster system, or e killed after birth. It's probably much more pleasent to have a rapist child that you don't want to take care and give it away then to abort it.
It's probably better for there to be more and more new babies that will get less and less care as the population increases; these babies will need homes which could have been spent on already existing babies who actualy need them! Milions of children in the world are in need of homes and food and drink, etc, but no, let's get more children of our own which we can not take care of ourselves.



You sound like a murderer. A potato is a plant, a heartbeat and brain is indicative of life, life that can prosper and has a mind.

- life that can prosper

So? That's just the hypothetical "what if" anti abortion argument.

- has a mind

"A mind /ˈmaɪnd/ is the set of cognitive faculties that enables consciousness, perception, thinking, judgement, and memory—a characteristic of humans, but which also may apply to other life forms."

A feutus is not conscious, has no perception, can nothink, has no judgement and memory.
How exactly does it have a mind?




How'd you feel if you were married and 8 and a half months in your wife aborts the baby without you knowing?

Completely irrelevant to the subject of abortion itself.
If this is your problem with it, you'd need to stand for laws which make abortion unable to do without knowledge of the father, etc.
Seperate issue.


And gay this gay that, all people face depression, it doesn't matter what you sleep with.

Um ok.

Besides, why is it so important that sentience is in this?.

Because it's moraly acceptable for us to kill non sentient things, like potato's. It's not morally acceptable to kill sentient things like humans and pets, etc.. (Ofcourse with the exeption of our meat products.)

It's a human fetus! Why would you kill it?

there are so many obvious reasons for this I doubt you don't actualy know.
- the family can NOT take care of it, and need to put it in foster system (which is awful for a child)
- the parents are a danger to the child, they may be abusive or mentally unstable
- the mother will not have a baby of a rapist and will be severely mentally damaged if she has the child

and this one you will most likely dissagree with
- the world is overpopulated. There are milions of starving homeless children and only a small amount of adopting parents. Bringing more and more children of our own into the overpopulated world gives them adoption homes instead of the children that already needed it.





Go through the carry and birth and give the child to a family who could never have kids because the husband or wife is barren.

Like there aren't already enough children waiting for their adoption.
The husband and wife that are barren can adopt children that already live! There are more then enough to adopt. Why would you want to make that list even bigger?

[Lovelife090994]

So? Does a heartbeat magicaly give it thoughts feelings consciousness and make it sentient? It does not. And ofcourse the brain is developing; every part of a feutus is developing. This does not mean it's sentient in any way or form. Bring me proof a feutus can
-feel
-think
-is conscious
then I could atleast concider taking that argument serious.




- calling out on stupidity
- appearently not knowing basic biology
A plant has organs.
A plants does not have a brain;
however a plant is still alive. Some plants have actualy forms of primitive communication and in a way, "intelligence".
Plants are alive and non sentient. Feutuses are alive and non sentient.
That's the point of the comparison.





RIght, it's probably much better to have a baby that will be abused, abandonned, left, given away into a horrible foster system, or e killed after birth. It's probably much more pleasent to have a rapist child that you don't want to take care and give it away then to abort it.
It's probably better for there to be more and more new babies that will get less and less care as the population increases; these babies will need homes which could have been spent on already existing babies who actualy need them! Milions of children in the world are in need of homes and food and drink, etc, but no, let's get more children of our own which we can not take care of ourselves.





- life that can prosper

So? That's just the hypothetical "what if" anti abortion argument.

- has a mind

"A mind /ˈmaɪnd/ is the set of cognitive faculties that enables consciousness, perception, thinking, judgement, and memory—a characteristic of humans, but which also may apply to other life forms."

A feutus is not conscious, has no perception, can nothink, has no judgement and memory.
How exactly does it have a mind?






Completely irrelevant to the subject of abortion itself.
If this is your problem with it, you'd need to stand for laws which make abortion unable to do without knowledge of the father, etc.
Seperate issue.




Um ok.

Because it's moraly acceptable for us to kill non sentient things, like potato's. It's not morally acceptable to kill sentient things like humans and pets, etc.. (Ofcourse with the exeption of our meat products.)

there are so many obvious reasons for this I doubt you don't actualy know.
- the family can NOT take care of it, and need to put it in foster system (which is awful for a child)
- the parents are a danger to the child, they may be abusive or mentally unstable
- the mother will not have a baby of a rapist and will be severely mentally damaged if she has the child

and this one you will most likely dissagree with
- the world is overpopulated. There are milions of starving homeless children and only a small amount of adopting parents. Bringing more and more children of our own into the overpopulated world gives them adoption homes instead of the children that already needed it.

Like there aren't already enough children waiting for their adoption.
The husband and wife that are barren can adopt children that already live! There are more then enough to adopt. Why would you want to make that list even bigger?

I don't care if the Earth is overpopulated. The world's populaace could ift into LA! We barely fill 5% of the land yet affect much of it. You think that justifies murder? You make me cry! How dare you kill an innocent child! It's monsterous. I get you are nihilistic but have a heart and humanity. You're advocating legal murder! It's sick!

[Gamma Male]

If I were to tell you that kidneys are sentient beings worthy of moral consideration and that people who have one of their kidneys removed are murderers how would you react? I mean, they're ALIVE! They have cells and blood and tissue. How could you be so cruel as to condone the murder of innocent kidneys?


See how dumb that sounds? Well considering the fact that like kidneys, fetuses are not sentient and can't think or feel pain, how is it any different? What sets fetuses apart from kidneys?


And don't say "they have to potential to become babies" because so do sperm cells. Preventing lives from ever existing isn't unethical, if it was you would be doing everything in your power to increase the world's population.

[Lovelife090994]

If I were to tell you that kidneys are sentient beings worthy of moral consideration and that people who have one of their kidneys removed are murderers how would you react? I mean, they're ALIVE! They have cells and blood and tissue. How could you be so cruel as to condone the murder of innocent kidneys?


See how dumb that sounds? Well considering the fact that like kidneys, fetuses are not sentient and can't think or feel pain, how is it any different? What sets fetuses apart from kidneys?


And don't say "they have to potential to become babies" because so do sperm cells. Preventing lives from ever existing isn't unethical, if it was you would be doing everything in your power to increase the world's population.

Kidney's are an organ and not alive on their own. A baby is alive. You want to murder babies? Do the world a favor and never have children. Why are you a murderer?

[Gamma Male]

Kidney's are an organ and not alive on their own.
Neither are fetuses under 25 weeks, which is when well over 99% of abortions occur.

A baby is alive.
Fetuses aren't babies anymore than sperm sperm cells are babies.


You want to murder babies?
Weeellllll, maybe those really loud ones on planes who just won't stop screaming.....
Do the world a favor and never have children.
But if I don't have children how can I perform my satanic child sacrifice rituals on my 30th birthday, as is customary in the Atheist religion?
Why are you a murderer?

Well, it all started 5 years ago when I was playing with the bones of newborn kittens and an innocent young christian boy walked up to me and dared ask me to share my toys. But of course since I am secretly a pedophillic cannibal, I had no choice but to summon my lord and savior Arch Demon Beezlebub and kidnap said boy, keeping him locked in the attic of my local Islamic mosque and training him to become a homosexual terrorist Sith Lord, until he reaches the age of adulthood at which point I am to utilize him in my plot for world domination.

[Cpt_Cutter]

All of us will face our judgement anyways.

Not to sound like a dick, but that's the beauty of Atheism, we dont think we will. :D

[Lovelife090994]

Neither are fetuses under 25 weeks, which is when well over 99% of abortions occur.


Fetuses aren't babies anymore than sperm sperm cells are babies.



Weeellllll, maybe those really loud ones on planes who just won't stop screaming.....

But if I don't have children how can I perform my satanic child sacrifice rituals on my 30th birthday, as is customary in the Atheist religion?


Well, it all started 5 years ago when I was playing with the bones of newborn kittens and an innocent young christian boy walked up to me and dared ask me to share my toys. But of course since I am secretly a pedophillic cannibal, I had no choice but to summon my lord and savior Arch Demon Beezlebub and kidnap said boy, keeping him locked in the attic of my local Islamic mosque and training him to become a homosexual terrorist Sith Lord, until he reaches the age of adulthood at which point I am to utilize him in my plot for world domination.

Please tell me you are joking! if not, I rebuke in the name of Jesus before you do indeed become a demon in a human shell.

Not to sound like a dick, but that's the beauty of Atheism, we dont think we will. :D

No one escapes Judgement, not even humanly judges.

[Vlerchan]

Kidney's are an organ and not alive on their own.
Neither are foetus'. Foetus' older than 25 weeks just have a >50% chance of surviving outside the womb, too.

A baby is alive.
Foetus', like kidneys, are not alive on their own.

[Christen]

to prohibit abortion leads and has led only to one thing -
females suffering complications maybe even dying after illegal not safe abortions.

i belive in that its my decision whether i want to become a mother and when.

[Lovelife090994]

Neither are foetus'. Foetus' older than 25 weeks just have a >50% chance of surviving outside the womb, too.


Foetus', like kidneys, are not alive on their own.

How do you advocate murder! Abortion only brings death and misery. A child will never know why theiir mother never wanted them.

[Vlerchan]

How do you advocate murder!
This isn't an argument against my position.

Abortion only brings death and misery.
Right,

Well I'd presume that the woman having abortions believe that it would bring less misery that what might otherwise have occurred. Though as Gamma Male said I think a big part of the post-abortion 'misery' stems from people like you shaming them as murderers etc.

A child will never know why theiir mother never wanted them.
This is a bad thing?

[Christen]

How do you advocate murder! Abortion only brings death and misery. A child will never know why theiir mother never wanted them.

but the child will feel the mother never wanted it.
don't you think the mother will treat the child bad if she had to give birth?
ok there are other options as adoption but it depends on the paticual case which option is best in any given situation.
imagine rape - could the mother öpve the child as its a lifelong memory of what happened to her?

[Lovelife090994]

but the child will feel the mother never wanted it.
don't you think the mother will treat the child bad if she had to give birth?
ok there are other options as adoption but it depends on the paticual case which option is best in any given situation.
imagine rape - could the mother öpve the child as its a lifelong memory of what happened to her?

No one aks to be born.

[Miserabilia]

No one aks to be born.

Exactly.


How do you advocate murder! Abortion only brings death and misery.

To whom does it bring misery? If so, can you logicaly show it brings more misery than keeping the child?

A child will never know why theiir mother never wanted them.

Exactly.

[Lovelife090994]

Exactly.




To whom does it bring misery? If so, can you logicaly show it brings more misery than keeping the child?



Exactly.

It brings misery to the almost-mother, and in essence if you so believe in it the child. But you don't care. You compare babies to plants and probably think we aren't alive until the age of five and that killing babies is fine which I must protest.

[Miserabilia]

It brings misery to the almost-mother,

How so? Even if that is the case, the mother is allowed to bring herself misery. It's sad, but it's not illegal to cause oneself to be unhappy.


and in essence if you so believe in it the child.

The child is not able to feel a thing such as misery because it's not developed yet.


You compare babies to plants

Yes. Do you have any justification for why that's not a correct comparison? Besides the obvious different in cells, build of the organism, I mean in my actual comparison.


and probably think we aren't alive until the age of five

Hm nope not sure where you got that? That's not my beleif.

killing babies is fine which I must protest.

Yes I kill babies and I eat them all the time, I do it for my pal satan.

[Lovelife090994]

How so? Even if that is the case, the mother is allowed to bring herself misery. It's sad, but it's not illegal to cause oneself to be unhappy.




The child is not able to feel a thing such as misery because it's not developed yet.




Yes. Do you have any justification for why that's not a correct comparison? Besides the obvious different in cells, build of the organism, I mean in my actual comparison.




Hm nope not sure where you got that? That's not my beleif.



Yes I kill babies and I eat them all the time, I do it for my pal satan.

After women abort they normally feel depressed and guilty. That's bad enough. And the child in question didn't ask to be here so why abort it?

And you don't believe in Satan.

[Emerald Dream]

Do the world a favor and never have children. Why are you a murderer?



Weeellllll, maybe those really loud ones on planes who just won't stop screaming.....

But if I don't have children how can I perform my satanic child sacrifice rituals on my 30th birthday, as is customary in the Atheist religion?


Well, it all started 5 years ago when I was playing with the bones of newborn kittens and an innocent young christian boy walked up to me and dared ask me to share my toys. But of course since I am secretly a pedophillic cannibal, I had no choice but to summon my lord and savior Arch Demon Beezlebub and kidnap said boy, keeping him locked in the attic of my local Islamic mosque and training him to become a homosexual terrorist Sith Lord, until he reaches the age of adulthood at which point I am to utilize him in my plot for world domination.

Please tell me you are joking! if not, I rebuke in the name of Jesus before you do indeed become a demon in a human shell.



Yes I kill babies and I eat them all the time, I do it for my pal satan.


Since you all can't take the mere concept of a debate seriously... :locked:

I don't see how you expect anyone to take you the least bit seriously with any of this.