Should the US continue to support Israel financially?

[Gamma Male]

I agree with the US Green party's position.
c. We reaffirm the right and feasibility of Palestinian refugees to return to thei in Israel. We acknowledge the significant challenges of equity and restitution t would encounter and call on the U.S. government to make resolution of these a central goal of our diplomacy in the region.

d. We reject U.S. unbalanced financial and military support of Israel while Isra occupies Palestinian lands and maintains an apartheid-like system in both the Palestinian Territories and in Israel toward its non-Jewish citizens. Therefore, the U.S. President and Congress to suspend all military and foreign aid, includi and grants, to Israel until Israel withdraws from the Occupied Territories, dis the separation wall in the Occupied West Bank including East Jerusalem, ends of Gaza and its apartheid-like system both within the Occupied Palestinian Ter and in Israel toward its non-Jewish citizens.

e. We also reject U.S. political support for Israel and demand that the U.S. gove end its veto of Security Council resolutions pertaining to Israel. We urge our government to join with the U.N. to secure Israel's complete withdrawal to the boundaries and its compliance with international law.

f. We support a much stronger and supportive U.S. position with respect to all Nations, European Union, and Arab League initiatives that seek a negotiated p call for an immediate U.N.-sponsored, multinational peacekeeping and protecti in the Palestinian territories with the mandate to initiate a conflict-resolution commission.

Sorry, the copy/paste on my phone fucks up sometimes and stuff. But yeah, I don't support funding Israel while they continue their aggressive actions toward Palestine(and vice versa, for that matter) and I think we should encourage them, peacefully and diplomatically, to allow UN forces to step in as fair, nonbiased peace keepers to help defuse the situation. I recognize the right of Palestinian Israelis to be treated fairly by the Israeli government, and vice versa.

[Camazotz]

Yup, again I agree with you.

In my first semester at college, I decided to attend a meeting/seminar about the Palestinian crisis (prior to this, I had absolutely no knowledge of the issue in Israel), and I was surprised to learn about all the terrible stuff the Israeli government does to the Palestinians. The media and government are generally pro-Israel, so I assumed that Israel wasn't to blame, but it was eye-opening to see the missile strikes, aggressive behaviors against Palestinian fishermen, and Israeli legislature against the Palestinians. From what I've seen and heard, Israel is an apartheid state.

I'm really not educated enough on the topic to make any bold claims, however. Both sides are adamant that the other is to blame, and I can't really discern which sources are more credible than the other. I'm inclined to believe that the Palestinians are the real victims in this scenario, though some of their accusations may come off as anti-Semitic.

[Gamma Male]

Yup, again I agree with you.

In my first semester at college, I decided to attend a meeting/seminar about the Palestinian crisis (prior to this, I had absolutely no knowledge of the issue in Israel), and I was surprised to learn about all the terrible stuff the Israeli government does to the Palestinians. The media and government are generally pro-Israel, so I assumed that Israel wasn't to blame, but it was eye-opening to see the missile strikes, aggressive behaviors against Palestinian fishermen, and Israeli legislature against the Palestinians. From what I've seen and heard, Israel is an apartheid state.

I'm really not educated enough on the topic to make any bold claims, however. Both sides are adamant that the other is to blame, and I can't really discern which sources are more credible than the other. I'm inclined to believe that the Palestinians are the real victims in this scenario, though some of their accusations may come off as anti-Semitic.

Yeah, it can be difficult to find a news outlet you can actually trust to have nonbiased information. I don't think Palestine is antisemitic so much as they are antiIsrael, which is understandable, but I think both countries are a little to blame at least. Like I said before, I think we should encourage them in a diplomatic manner to allow UN peacekeepers to step in and help defuse things and resolve any remaining land/border disputes.

[Harry Smith]

I remember the joke that the Israeli Army training consists of learning 27 ways to kick a Palestinian women in the back. The Israeli's have been brutal in the last 20 years, there are coming close to setting up something similar to the Warsaw Ghetto. I mean for me it really shows the Problem when the UK tries to draw countries on the map like in Iraq, and probably doesn't spend enough time on it.

As I always said Israel have a right to exist, and they have a right to self Defense-something they needed in the 50's against Egypt and Syria but in the last 20 years they've been brutal whether it's with raids against homes or rocket attacks in response to a poster being put up

[Koochi]

My short answer would be yes. Israel's been pushing it for a long time now.

I don't think Palestine is antisemitic so much as they are antiIsrael

That actually applies to most of the Arab world. I've spoken to Arabs from Jordan, Syria, Lebanon and even Saudi Arabia. They are very willing to criticise Israel's actions as a state than actually criticise Jewish people. Plus, an anti-semetic Arab would be a fail because Arabs and Jews are the only semetic races left in this world. So it'd essentially be like kicking your own balls.

[Horatio Nelson]

I think we should support Isreal, but not necessarily with our (worthless) dollars.

I also don't think anyone group is wholly to blame. They are all doing crazy shit to each other and acting like a bunch of metaphorical two year olds.

[Korashk]

I remember the joke that the Israeli Army training consists of learning 27 ways to kick a Palestinian women in the back. The Israeli's have been brutal in the last 20 years, there are coming close to setting up something similar to the Warsaw Ghetto. I mean for me it really shows the Problem when the UK tries to draw countries on the map like in Iraq, and probably doesn't spend enough time on it.

As I always said Israel have a right to exist, and they have a right to self Defense-something they needed in the 50's against Egypt and Syria but in the last 20 years they've been brutal whether it's with raids against homes or rocket attacks in response to a poster being put up
I think the biggest problem is the disproportionate response. Sure, Palestine is often the aggressor in small conflicts, launching RPGs at populated areas, but I think we can all agree that responding to an RPG that injures 12 innocents with a missile that kills 30 and injures 124 can't keep happening.

[tovaris]

israel is not a legitamate country

[Harry Smith]

israel is not a legitamate country

I'd disagree with that, the Jewish state was established for a reason-any peace process in the area won't be solved by removing the jews

[Stronk Serb]

I'd disagree with that, the Jewish state was established for a reason-any peace process in the area won't be solved by removing the jews

Nor by removing kebab. Israel needs sanctions until they stop bullying Palestine.

[Harry Smith]

Nor by removing kebab. Israel needs sanctions until they stop bullying Palestine.

They sure do, but there's an overwhelming tendency in some anti-Israel arguments that the state of Israel needs to be removed and purged which is a pretty dangerous view. I honestly think that Israeli's policy isn't about hatred but more fear after 60 years of warfare

[Stronk Serb]

They sure do, but there's an overwhelming tendency in some anti-Israel arguments that the state of Israel needs to be removed and purged which is a pretty dangerous view. I honestly think that Israeli's policy isn't about hatred but more fear after 60 years of warfare


One thing is when you say OK, we should watch out carefully. The other thing is when you say "Israel stronk! Kebab is of bad! We remove kebab!" Tey really have no major threats, they have the US behind them.

[tovaris]

I'd disagree with that, the Jewish state was established for a reason-any peace process in the area won't be solved by removing the jews

the state was de artifitaly by removing the arabs, that does not see fare does it?

[Harry Smith]

One thing is when you say OK, we should watch out carefully. The other thing is when you say "Israel stronk! Kebab is of bad! We remove kebab!" Tey really have no major threats, they have the US behind them.

I know, but I'm saying that they faced threats in the 50's/60's and they've failed to move on from a state of Total war after that. There biggest threat was pan-Arabism under Nasser

the state was de artifitaly by removing the arabs, that does not see fare does it?

The 1948 solution was fair to Israel-the state of India was created by massive population change and sadly it's something that had to happen after decolonization.

A two state solution would be able to work in the area, I don't think the Removal of Israel would probably start WW3

[ChaseDakoda]

When I get a fulltime job (14) I hope to make more than min wage. Why do we support every country in the world?
I go to Disney 5 times a week and we make friends and I have meet kids my age from these country, NEVER have they said Thanks.

[Lovelife090994]

Israel is the land of the Jews and they deserve to have it. Israel still needs our help, and Palestinians need to end the radicalism.

[Southside]

Nor by removing kebab. Israel needs sanctions until they stop bullying Palestine.

Im not Pro-Israel in anyway but don't you think the Palestinians cause there own problems sometimes? When they launch all those missiles and mortars into Israel, of course the Israeli Air Force is going to launch a counterattack. Any country would.

These are some things that need to be done over there:

Creation of a Palestinian State
Israel surrenders its nuclear weapons
Golan Heights returned to Syria
End the blockade of Gaza
End of the apartheid system
Sharing the water equally

[Cygnus]

Israel is the land of the Jews and they deserve to have it. Israel still needs our help, and Palestinians need to end the radicalism.

They're not the only ones, both sides aren't open minded about the other side, the blame doesn't lay in the Palestinians but in both.

As for my stance. I think all nations should just cut off support to Israel and Palestine until they solve their shit, they're taking okay steps towards it, and that's enough incentive isn't it?

[Stronk Serb]

Im not Pro-Israel in anyway but don't you think the Palestinians cause there own problems sometimes? When they launch all those missiles and mortars into Israel, of course the Israeli Air Force is going to launch a counterattack. Any country would.

These are some things that need to be done over there:

Creation of a Palestinian State
Israel surrenders its nuclear weapons
Golan Heights returned to Syria
End the blockade of Gaza
End of the apartheid system
Sharing the water equally


Isn't it overkill if someone launches an RPG into Israel wounding a few people, and then the Israelis rain hell upon all of Gaza.

[niceguy44]

Everybody talks about what Israel does to the Palestinians. Is what America did in Iraq & Afganistan any different?

[Gamma Male]

When I get a fulltime job (14) I hope to make more than min wage. Why do we support every country in the world?
I go to Disney 5 times a week and we make friends and I have meet kids my age from these country, NEVER have they said Thanks.
You're joking, right? You want them to personally thank you because your government supports their government? That's fucking stupid.
Israel is the land of the Jews and they deserve to have it. Israel still needs our help, and Palestinians need to end the radicalism.
I agree that Israel deserves to exist, but there's radicalism on both sides. Both sides need to let UN peacekeepers step in and resolve the conflict peacefully, and both sides need to cut the crap and learn to get along.
Everybody talks about what Israel does to the Palestinians. Is what America did in Iraq & Afganistan any different?

No, it isn't. The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are just as bad and unjust. I don't think anyone here is disputing that.

[Lovelife090994]

They're not the only ones, both sides aren't open minded about the other side, the blame doesn't lay in the Palestinians but in both.

As for my stance. I think all nations should just cut off support to Israel and Palestine until they solve their shit, they're taking okay steps towards it, and that's enough incentive isn't it?

I don't think the Jews and Arabs will get along anytime soon.

[Gamma Male]

I don't think the Jews and Arabs will get along anytime soon.

I think if we put economic sanctions on them and they both start losing money, they'll get real buddybuddy real quick.

[Lovelife090994]

I think if we put economic sanctions on them and they both start losing money, they'll get real buddybuddy real quick.

Hahahaha! Of course not. The Jews and Arabs would only use the money to find covert ways to kill one another. Even when Jews are Arab, the two clash since you always have that troublesome someone.

[sqishy]

I don't fit with any of the poll options because the more I hear about Israel and the US and what they have going, the less I like it, so I don't agree with it.

[Harry Smith]

Israel is the land of the Jews and they deserve to have it. Israel still needs our help, and Palestinians need to end the radicalism.

Extremely broad term-I don't see it as being radical to want to have your homeland as nation state. To be honest the more 'radical' parts are no different to uprisings that the Jews carried out in Nazi Germany in there eyes. The Israelis are in fact the one's with really radical policies considering how far-right there government is becoming


Im not Pro-Israel in anyway but don't you think the Palestinians cause there own problems sometimes? When they launch all those missiles and mortars into Israel, of course the Israeli Air Force is going to launch a counterattack. Any country would.

These are some things that need to be done over there:

Creation of a Palestinian State
Israel surrenders its nuclear weapons
Golan Heights returned to Syria
End the blockade of Gaza
End of the apartheid system
Sharing the water equally

To be honest I think one thing overlooked is the business interests that are at the heart of the debate-people have been making millions of Israel's wars for the last 50 years, along with their nuclear program so there's a lot of vested interests meaning any peace would be hard to achieve

Hahahaha! Of course not. The Jews and Arabs would only use the money to find covert ways to kill one another. Even when Jews are Arab, the two clash since you always have that troublesome someone.

Have you ever met a Jew and an Arab? You seem to have some sort of weird 1950's esque view that they're always wanting to kill each other

[phuckphace]

theoretically I don't have a problem with the existence of a Jewish state (and by Jewish I mean the ethnic group(s) not religion.) the problem we're now facing is that Israel heavily abuses its military might and abuses its victim status to its advantage. the political rhetoric around Israel is such that you risk being labeled anti-Semitic if you criticize Israel. the tone of the discussion is often a lot softer than it needs to be, especially in the US where most of our large Christian population literally worships Israel.

what's certain is that Israelis are some of the most smug, racist chauvinists on the planet, which is heavily ironic all things considered. adding further irony is the fact that Israel itself is essentially a National Socialist state, complete with anti-miscegenation laws and ethnic favoritism at the official level. I wonder what would happen if white people tried to do the same thing. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied-occupied_Germany)

[Lovelife090994]

theoretically I don't have a problem with the existence of a Jewish state (and by Jewish I mean the ethnic group(s) not religion.) the problem we're now facing is that Israel heavily abuses its military might and abuses its victim status to its advantage. the political rhetoric around Israel is such that you risk being labeled anti-Semitic if you criticize Israel. the tone of the discussion is often a lot softer than it needs to be, especially in the US where most of our large Christian population literally worships Israel.

what's certain is that Israelis are some of the most smug, racist chauvinists on the planet, which is heavily ironic all things considered. adding further irony is the fact that Israel itself is essentially a National Socialist state, complete with anti-miscegenation laws and ethnic favoritism at the official level. I wonder what would happen if white people tried to do the same thing. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied-occupied_Germany)


Apartheid.

[phuckphace]

Apartheid.

and literally everyone was bitching and moaning and sobbing over it, and their collective tears gushed into a deep canyon and formed the Dead Sea (not really). the West was tripping over itself in a rush to condemn the ruling Boer minority as a racist apartheid gov't (while simultaneously supporting Israel which was guilty of the same things). they also set up a whole bunch of fake symbolic embargoes against South Africa so they could smugly pat themselves on the back for how humanitarian and not racist they were. *sips fair trade chai latte*

one of the things that's curiously never addressed is why the condition of SA's black majority didn't improve in the aggregate after Apartheid was lifted. one would expect their newfound freedom to be a powerful motivator to change things for the better. but today's South Africa is still a corrupt and violent shithole where it's considered an accomplishment to live past the age of 40. perhaps the removal of the authoritarian nationalist state had unforseen consequences, my guess anyway. road to hell, good intentions, etc.

[Lovelife090994]

and literally everyone was bitching and moaning and sobbing over it, and their collective tears gushed into a deep canyon and formed the Dead Sea (not really). the West was tripping over itself in a rush to condemn the ruling Boer minority as a racist apartheid gov't (while simultaneously supporting Israel which was guilty of the same things). they also set up a whole bunch of fake symbolic embargoes against South Africa so they could smugly pat themselves on the back for how humanitarian and not racist they were. *sips fair trade chai latte*

one of the things that's curiously never addressed is why the condition of SA's black majority didn't improve in the aggregate after Apartheid was lifted. one would expect their newfound freedom to be a powerful motivator to change things for the better. but today's South Africa is still a corrupt and violent shithole where it's considered an accomplishment to live past the age of 40. perhaps the removal of the authoritarian nationalist state had unforseen consequences, my guess anyway. road to hell, good intentions, etc.


Look at America. We were built on racism and had injustice since the start. Even now we still judge on color and treat people different based on color whether people acknowledge it or not.

[phuckphace]

Look at America. We were built on racism and had injustice since the start. Even now we still judge on color and treat people different based on color whether people acknowledge it or not.

what you're referring to is more correctly known as cultural conflict. racism/racial discrimination isn't just based on skin color alone.

the biggest misunderstanding people have about race relations is that racism is the disease, when in fact it is actually a symptom of something else (multiculturalism). history has shown us that conflict and tension emerges whenever two or more different cultures come to live among one another in the "melting pot." and so that's part of the reason I'd argue that racial discrimination has actually increased since the removal of segregation and the introduction of multiculturalism. after all, it's pretty difficult to racially discriminate against someone of a different race if there aren't any racial minorities living in your culture.

the tl;dr version: we were told multiculturalism would boost racial harmony, when in fact it ironically did the precise opposite. the US is arguably a large-scale social experiment in multiculturalism, and our final grade is a big bold "F."

[Gamma Male]

what you're referring to is more correctly known as cultural conflict. racism/racial discrimination isn't just based on skin color alone.

the biggest misunderstanding people have about race relations is that racism is the disease, when in fact it is actually a symptom of something else (multiculturalism). history has shown us that conflict and tension emerges whenever two or more different cultures come to live among one another in the "melting pot." and so that's part of the reason I'd argue that racial discrimination has actually increased since the removal of segregation and the introduction of multiculturalism. after all, it's pretty difficult to racially discriminate against someone of a different race if there aren't any racial minorities living in your culture.

the tl;dr version: we were told multiculturalism would boost racial harmony, when in fact it ironically did the precise opposite. the US is arguably a large-scale social experiment in multiculturalism, and our final grade is a big bold "F."
This is just ridiculous. Racism is not worse now than before the antisegregation laws.

[Lovelife090994]

This is just ridiculous. Racism is not worse now than before the antisegregation laws.

No, but it is quieted and never discussed. Also the word "racist" is thrown everywhere too much. There will always be racists. Think about it. We segregate ourselves and it's well known that nicer neighborhoods are always either mixed or White.

[Gamma Male]

No, but it is quieted and never discussed. Also the word "racist" is thrown everywhere too much. There will always be racists. Think about it. We segregate ourselves and it's well known that nicer neighborhoods are always either mixed or White.

I'm not denying that there's still some racism and segregation, but saying that it was better before the antidiscrimination laws is just utterly ridiculous.

[Lovelife090994]

I'm not denying that there's still some racism and segregation, but saying that it was better before the antidiscrimination laws is just utterly ridiculous.

That's true. But he may be on to something. Segregation promotes hate but makes each band band together with itself, BUT it separates which isn't right.

[Gamma Male]

That's true. But he may be on to something. Segregation promotes hate but makes each band band together with itself, BUT it separates which isn't right.

No, he isn't on to anything. Segregation is completely pointless. There's no reason whites and blacks shouldn't be able to use the same public facilities.

[Lovelife090994]

No, he isn't on to anything. Segregation is completely pointless. There's no reason whites and blacks shouldn't be able to use the same public facilities.

That's true.

[Whight]

Isn't it overkill if someone launches an RPG into Israel wounding a few people, and then the Israelis rain hell upon all of Gaza.

Would shooting an RPG that wounds a few people on the other side be any better? Then all they'd do all day is shoot RPGs day in day out heh.

I think the reason Israel goes for overkill is to create some sort of scare tactic to say "don't do it again, or we'll punish you again". I don't think Israel necessarily wants to attack like that. They're probably just feel forced because they can't stand by and let the other side attack them and their citizens.
And on the other hand, any attempt at peace doesn't seem to be working.

I hope those two sides could solve it peacefully. I doubt war would do any side any good. Plus, it'd probably end up being something that will drag all of us into it.
They should just both stop attacking for good. It's kind of stupid to blame Israel if Palestine keeps shooting RPGs, kidnapping people and send terrorist bombers.

[Harry Smith]

They should just both stop attacking for good. It's kind of stupid to blame Israel if Palestine keeps shooting RPGs, kidnapping people and send terrorist bombers.

The palestines have every right to fight back-in the same way that the Jews had every right to fight the Nazis in the Warsaw Ghetto. The israeli's don't seem to understand the concept of Public relations

[Whight]

I don't think neither of them have rights to attack innocents. Not that it's the same thing at all, but let's assume the Palestines are the same as the Jewish people in the holocaust. I would still argue that if the Jewish people of that time had killed and attacked innocent German citizens (not nazis or soldiers), then it's not justified.

So it's much more true here. No war justifies the attack on innocent people. Here it's entirely that, that the Israeli government attacks Palestine, and even innocent people there still doesn't give rise to killing innocent Israelies.

It's just the same to say that because our government attacked Iraq and is attacking Afghanistan and we're also sadly hitting innocent lives, then it's okay that there was the 9/11 and the Boston massacre and any other form of attack on citizens that could happen and is thwarted everyday.
I'm not willing to die for the mistakes of my government, and i'm sure no Israeli or Palenstine wants to die for their governments behavior too.

Tbh, I think the biggest problem of it all is the terror acts. Groups who cower and hide in their countries, behind kids and schools, and then go out and attack citizens. They make for an impossible war, as they don't identify themselves, they don't stand up and make themselves open for attack. Instead, they hit and run, only to later hide behind captive citizens from their own country, usually kids. Then when the government still attacks, they yell and cry for the lost lives of the kids, using them as a publicity weapon to paint the other side as an evil.

This is what is happening all the time against us, and I think the same is happening in Israel. (Though, I think it's a bit rougher in Israel. Because there's a lot of bad blood between both sides).

[Harry Smith]

I don't think neither of them have rights to attack innocents. Not that it's the same thing at all, but let's assume the Palestines are the same as the Jewish people in the holocaust. I would still argue that if the Jewish people of that time had killed and attacked innocent German citizens (not nazis or soldiers), then it's not justified.

So it's much more true here. No war justifies the attack on innocent people. Here it's entirely that, that the Israeli government attacks Palestine, and even innocent people there still doesn't give rise to killing innocent Israelies.

It's just the same to say that because our government attacked Iraq and is attacking Afghanistan and we're also sadly hitting innocent lives, then it's okay that there was the 9/11 and the Boston massacre and any other form of attack on citizens that could happen and is thwarted everyday.
I'm not willing to die for the mistakes of my government, and i'm sure no Israeli or Palenstine wants to die for their governments behavior too.

Tbh, I think the biggest problem of it all is the terror acts. Groups who cower and hide in their countries, behind kids and schools, and then go out and attack citizens. They make for an impossible war, as they don't identify themselves, they don't stand up and make themselves open for attack. Instead, they hit and run, only to later hide behind captive citizens from their own country, usually kids. Then when the government still attacks, they yell and cry for the lost lives of the kids, using them as a publicity weapon to paint the other side as an evil.

This is what is happening all the time against us, and I think the same is happening in Israel. (Though, I think it's a bit rougher in Israel. Because there's a lot of bad blood between both sides).

The main acts of terror committed in the region is that by the Israeli Army

[Stronk Serb]

Would shooting an RPG that wounds a few people on the other side be any better? Then all they'd do all day is shoot RPGs day in day out heh.

I think the reason Israel goes for overkill is to create some sort of scare tactic to say "don't do it again, or we'll punish you again". I don't think Israel necessarily wants to attack like that. They're probably just feel forced because they can't stand by and let the other side attack them and their citizens.
And on the other hand, any attempt at peace doesn't seem to be working.

I hope those two sides could solve it peacefully. I doubt war would do any side any good. Plus, it'd probably end up being something that will drag all of us into it.
They should just both stop attacking for good. It's kind of stupid to blame Israel if Palestine keeps shooting RPGs, kidnapping people and send terrorist bombers.

The Israelis should stop herding the Palestinians like they are some sort of cattle.

[Vlerchan]

history has shown us that conflict and tension emerges whenever two or more different cultures come to live among one another in the "melting pot."
You're an American nationalist. You're supposed to support 'the melting pot'.

It's the antithesis of multiculturalism.

I don't think Israel necessarily wants to attack like that.
I don't think any nation enjoys murdering civilians.

Though regardless of how justified or not justified you might perceive it is I personally don't believe that any country should be financing Israel, esp. with arms (see: the US), whilst it keeps resorting to acts of aggression: the Palestinians have made it clear that they do want to negotiate, the balls in Isreal's park.

[Whight]

The main acts of terror committed in the region is that by the Israeli Army

I'd admit i'm not that informed. But I don't think that's true at all.
I think you're like how many people are. They see the news are very pro-israel, so they go and look at the other side and then they see all the Palestine lies, and they take them at face value, as if just because one end isn't objective, then the other is necessarily objective.
There's a middle ground here. And the middle ground I think is that the Palestines are caught in the worst place in the world, and they're unable to leave. On the one side, they have terrorists among them who use them as human shield (read up, there's a lot of documented cases where this happened - especially kids). And on the other side, they have the Israelis who look at them as if they're bad people or possible terrorists and treat them as such by putting them behind big walls, giving them a horrible treatment as far as human rights go and so on.
And in that middle ground, Israel acts with ... let's say diminished regards to the lives of those captured Palestines. Instead of giving them means to fend off those terrorists or perhaps get away from them, they keep them locked up there and many times they end up being casualties.

But let's not be naive and say that it's the same (or even going farther and saying Israel is the terrorist). Granted, what Israel is doing is wrong too. In many cases they hit civilians by accident. But, and this DOES matter, they're not aiming at citizens to begin with.
The terrorists are. They're aiming directly at Israeli citizens, while using Palestines as human shields - And in doing so, hits innocents on both sides. They're not aiming at soldiers, and by accident also hitting innocents. They're aiming to places that have 0 military presence.
Also, look at the most recent case that happened the other day if I read correctly. Some 2 teenagers (or 3, can't remember) were kidnapped, probably by Terrorists from Palestine. One of that teenagers is one of us, a US citizen. You can't tell me that something like that has anything to do with trying to win freedom and achieving peace.

[niceguy44]

The only reason Israel has to herd the Palestinians like cattle is because terrorist groups like Hamas & Hizbollah shelter among them . 3 INNOCENT ISRAELI STUDENTS HAVE BEEN KIDNAPPED BY A PALESTINIAN TERRORIST GROUP. TWO AGED 16 AND THE OTHER 19. WHAT ARE THEY SUPPOSED TO DO? SIT BACK AND TAKE IT. IT'S NOT THE FIRST TIME THINGS LIKE THIS HAS HAPPENED. THESE ISLAMIST GROUPS ARE THE NAZIS OF TODAY.

[Vlerchan]

INNOCENT ISRAELI STUDENTS HAVE BEEN KIDNAPPED BY A PALESTINIAN TERRORIST GROUP. TWO AGED 16 AND THE OTHER 19. WHAT ARE THEY SUPPOSED TO DO? SIT BACK AND TAKE IT. IT'S NOT THE FIRST TIME THINGS LIKE THIS HAS HAPPENED. THESE ISLAMIST GROUPS ARE THE NAZIS OF TODAY.
If you oppress people they are going to get frustrated eventually, yes.

[Whight]

You're an American nationalist. You're supposed to support 'the melting pot'.

It's the antithesis of multiculturalism.


I don't think any nation enjoys murdering civilians.

Though regardless of how justified or not justified you might perceive it is I personally don't believe that any country should be financing Israel, esp. with arms (see: the US), whilst it keeps resorting to acts of aggression: the Palestinians have made it clear that they do want to negotiate, the balls in Isreal's park.

Israel has been aiming to negotiate too. I think it's empty promises on both sides until all aggression end.
Kidnapping 3 teenagers, our ages, is a far cry from being ready to negotiate (unless we're talking using those teenagers as bargaining chips).

I'll remind you Israel has released countless convicted criminals back to Palestine, just to try and reach a peace settlement. (Though I think they're still not coming in full faith, so it's bound to fail regardless).

Both sides are at fault.

As for financing. I don't think we should support any country. But I do think that if Russia or China are supporting Arab countries, and arming them up, then we must also stand by our allies in just the same way.

It might be wholly naive of me to say this, and quite childish. But I think we're fighting a war atm, against deadly terrorist groups who want the free world to fall. I think we're fighting this war, not as countries, but as individuals. Each and every one of us, who believes in people's rights for human rights, freedom and all the other things we take for granted. I think the real enemy isn't other countries either. I think it's people as well, people who hide in those countries. Sometimes even head those countries (like Syria and Iran) - the citizens there are held captive and go through unimaginable things, things that make Israel saints in comparison. (Really. Look at what is happening in Syria. It's a thousand times worse than what Israel is doing to Palestinian people.)
And I think that we need to get our heads out of the sand and look at it the way it really is. The worst thing to do, is close our eyes and pretend like there aren't any terrorists and no one really wants our demise.
And that's why, we as a country who helms those rights, together with the rest of the free countries, should push to see that every human on earth gets at least the most basic of those rights.

I know it's naive. And I know some of you may think that who are we to tell them how to live. But, try and imagine life in Syria, or North Korea or Ukraine. I wouldn't want to live like that.

[Harry Smith]

There's no evidence the kidnapping was carried out by Hamas or any other militant group, however as usual Israel do the good thing

http://english.al-akhbar.com/content/israelis-shoot-dead-palestinian-youth-search-missing-settlers?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+AlAkhbarEnglish+(Al+Akhbar+English)

try and imagine life in Syria, or North Korea or Ukraine. I wouldn't want to live like that.

Imagine living in a country that spies on it's own citizens, breaks international laws, tortures and imprisons people without charge, sends drones after wedding ceremonies and invades countries on made up grounds. That's the US

[Whight]

If you oppress people they are going to get frustrated eventually, yes.

That's naive to think that. The Palestine people are not terrorists. They don't want to be terrorists and in fairness i'm sure they want to get as far away from the terrorists among them.

There's an extreme sector in Islam (as there are in any religion, but sadly these guys try and make a name for themselves as the worst) who have very twisted and dangerous beliefs. They want to destroy the western world. Starting with Israel, but they'll get to us soon enough too. They don't have one specific country nor is it all one group. But they'd fight and kill regardless. They don't care about getting their own country in Palestine. They want to kill as many westerners as they can, because that will get them to their one true god.

You can read about them if you want, and their beliefs.

[Harry Smith]

That's naive to think that. The Palestine people are not terrorists. They don't want to be terrorists and in fairness i'm sure they want to get as far away from the terrorists among them.

There's an extreme sector in Islam (as there are in any religion, but sadly these guys try and make a name for themselves as the worst) who have very twisted and dangerous beliefs. They want to destroy the western world. Starting with Israel, but they'll get to us soon enough too. They don't have one specific country nor is it all one group. But they'd fight and kill regardless. They don't care about getting their own country in Palestine. They want to kill as many westerners as they can, because that will get them to their one true god.

You can read about them if you want, and their beliefs.

Didn't the white South Africans say this during the apartheid?

[Whight]

There's no evidence the kidnapping was carried out by Hamas or any other militant group, however as usual Israel do the good thing

http://english.al-akhbar.com/content/israelis-shoot-dead-palestinian-youth-search-missing-settlers?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+AlAkhbarEnglish+(Al+Akhbar+English)



Imagine living in a country that spies on it's own citizens, breaks international laws, tortures and imprisons people without charge, sends drones after wedding ceremonies and invades countries on made up grounds. That's the US

You can't seriously take that at face value. Do you really believe Israeli soldiers would randomly shoot a Palestine teenager, just like that? If you question the media, question all the media. Don't be selective. I question it all, and yes, I also question that Hamas did it as Israel claims. Though it does seem likely. I don't question btw the fact that someone was shot, I suppose that part is true. I just question what was behind it - I'm certain there was a legitimate reason that that article is deliberately hiding.

I can send you now about a dozen different articles and pieces about people Israel's military allegedly killed and how it was forged. There are a ton of pictures like that, that are either staged or falsely used, when the actual picture is something else entirely.

[Vlerchan]

Israel has been aiming to negotiate too. I think it's empty promises on both sides until all aggression end.
It's empty promises on Israel's side.

Try telling me that this (http://www.latimes.com/world/worldnow/la-fg-wn-palestinian-government-will-renounce-violence-recognize-israel-20140426,0,6412867.story#axzz301RIppc9) isn't the Palestinians making a massive effort.

Kidnapping 3 teenagers, our ages, is a far cry from being ready to negotiate (unless we're talking using those teenagers as bargaining chips).
I've no idea why you're so eager to associate the whole movement for a free Palestine with extremists.

Both sides are at fault.
I never said they weren't.

I believe though that Israel are more-so at fault.

As for financing. I don't think we should support any country. But I do think that if Russia or China are supporting Arab countries, and arming them up, then we must also stand by our allies in just the same way.
I personally wish we'd move away from the proxy-war we're playing over Arab-national's oil.

Regardless, Israel don't need our help anymore; they have enough arms - and most likely nukes, too. If the surrounding Arab nations start invading you might have an excuse to start donating an average one billion (http://imeu.org/article/how-much-and-what-kind-of-aid-does-the-us-provide-to-israel) per year to Israel in military aid, but right now I see absolutely no reason that justifies the excessive amounts of cash that the US government pushes into the country; human rights abuses notwithstanding.


It might be wholly naive of me to say this, and quite childish. But I think we're fighting a war atm, against deadly terrorist groups who want the free world to fall.
I don't really share your fears. I think the terrorists groups just want yous to leave their holy lands - as they've said themselves.

I think we're fighting this war, not as countries, but as individuals.
Well, at least this is a somewhat original attempt to justify the war on terror.

Each and every one of us, who believes in people's rights for human rights, freedom and all the other things we take for granted.
I find it incredibly ironic that you can come out and say this after supporting Zionists.

I think the real enemy isn't other countries either. I think it's people as well, people who hide in those countries. Sometimes even head those countries (like Syria and Iran) - the citizens there are held captive and go through unimaginable things, things that make Israel saints in comparison. (Really. Look at what is happening in Syria. It's a thousand times worse than what Israel is doing to Palestinian people.)
Please look into what's actually happening in the Syrian civil war.

Al Asaad's the good(er) guy here: the opposition are mostly violent Al Queda-linked Jihaadist (inc. the ISIL).


And I think that we need to get our heads out of the sand and look at it the way it really is. The worst thing to do, is close our eyes and pretend like there aren't any terrorists and no one really wants our demise.
And that's why, we as a country who helms those rights, together with the rest of the free countries, should push to see that every human on earth gets at least the most basic of those rights.
do you support invading Saudi Arabia then.

Still finding the irony amusing,

[Whight]

You're making two mistakes there Vlerchan:

A) I'm not at all tying the movement for a free Palestine with extremists. I think they're entirely unconnected. But sadly, Palestine suffers from the fact that they have those extremists among them, and they are helpless to do anything about them. Those are hurting their cause, because Israel isn't making the separation between the two.

As for Abbas, I agree that's a big step. But sadly, he's helpless to fight the terrorists hiding in his country. And Israel is afraid that those terrorists would get power and become in control. Could you offer me another reason why there isn't a peace sign? What's Israel to gain here?
Do you really think Israel wants to just kill off all the Palestines, and they enjoy oppressing them and wasting military funds in guarding them, sending them food and medical supplies, etc?

B) When did I ever say I support Zionists? When did I even mention them?

[Harry Smith]

It's empty promises on Israel's side.

Try telling me that this (http://www.latimes.com/world/worldnow/la-fg-wn-palestinian-government-will-renounce-violence-recognize-israel-20140426,0,6412867.story#axzz301RIppc9) isn't the Palestinians making a massive effort.


I've no idea why you're so eager to associate the whole movement for a free Palestine with extremists.


I never said they weren't.

I believe though that Israel are more-so at fault.


I personally wish we'd move away from the proxy-war we're playing over Arab-national's oil.

Regardless, Israel don't need our help anymore; they have enough arms - and most likely nukes, too. If the surrounding Arab nations start invading you might have an excuse to start donating an average one billion (http://imeu.org/article/how-much-and-what-kind-of-aid-does-the-us-provide-to-israel) per year to Israel in military aid, but right now I see absolutely no reason that justifies the excessive amounts of cash that the US government pushes into the country; human rights abuses notwithstanding.



I don't really share your fears. I think the terrorists groups just want yous to leave their holy lands - as they've said themselves.


Well, at least this is a somewhat original attempt to justify the war on terror.


I find it incredibly ironic that you can come out and say this after supporting Zionists.


Please look into what's actually happening in the Syrian civil war.

Al Asaad's the good(er) guy here: the opposition are mostly violent Al Queda-linked Jihaadist (inc. the ISIL).



do you support invading Saudi Arabia then.

Still finding the irony amusing,

The saudi Arabia point is the most ironic thing in the world-the US always come out with the crap about democracy, human rights and free yet they've supported Saudi Arabia for 50 years. They only care about the 3 above if you're against them

[Vlerchan]

You're making two mistakes there Vlerchan.
Considering how many points there was to my post that's a pretty good success rate.

What's Israel to gain here?
Well,

They get control over more land, and so more resources.
Security, a free Palestinian state would not want to cozy up to Isreal, and would be perceived as a threat, regardless of leadership.
It would be politically unpopular with Isreali conservatives, i.e., their voting base, for the government to make peace.

Further, since it's American money that finances its terror it's not like it's really hurting them financially.

B) When did I ever say I support Zionists? When did I even mention them?
Israel = Zionism.

You tend towards Israel.

[niceguy44]

al akbar is a lot of bullshit
the guys in the photo deserve an oscar

[Harry Smith]

al akbar is a lot of bullshit
the guys in the photo deserve an oscar

What do the Israeli soldiers deserve? A visit to nuremburg