Babies with 3 parents, soon to be a reality.

[Gamma Male]

http://www.businessinsider.com/reproductive-technology-mum-dad-and-mitomum-2014-6

This is some cool shit.

[IAMWILL]

http://www.businessinsider.com/reproductive-technology-mum-dad-and-mitomum-2014-6

This is some cool shit.

Very cool, but certainly controversial.

[conniption]

Decreased chances of hereditary diseases? I'm in.

[LouBerry]

http://www.businessinsider.com/reproductive-technology-mum-dad-and-mitomum-2014-6

This is some cool shit.

That's amazing. But dear Lord, I already hear the Conservatives quoting the Bible.

[Miserabilia]

That's amazing. But dear Lord, I already hear the Conservatives quoting the Bible.

Just what I was about to say. This is going to be controversial to say the least.

[Lovelife090994]

That's amazing. But dear Lord, I already hear the Conservatives quoting the Bible.

I myself am not too pleased about this. I am still on the fence on it, but it irks me for some reason.

[Gamma Male]

I myself am not too pleased about this. I am still on the fence on it, but it irks me for some reason.

Just look at it this way. Would you rather have 3 parents or a debilitating genetic disease?

[Lovelife090994]

Just look at it this way. Would you rather have 3 parents or a debilitating genetic disease?

I'd rather have two loving parents and a roof over my head.

[Gamma Male]

I'd rather have two loving parents and a roof over my head.

You wouldn't have 3 parents raise you, you would just have genetic material from 3 different people. You could also potentially be cured of several incurable, life threatening diseases.

[Lovelife090994]

You wouldn't have 3 parents raise you, you would just have genetic material from 3 different people. You could also potentially be cured of several incurable, life threatening diseases.

I don't think I'd do that. We're meant to have two parents, not three.

[Gamma Male]

I don't think I'd do that. We're meant to have two parents, not three.

So you would rather live in a wheelchair your entire life or have a dangerously weak immune system or die in your 30's than have genetic material from 3 people, even though you're still only raised by two?

[Lovelife090994]

So you would rather live in a wheelchair your entire life or have a dangerously weak immune system or die in your 30's than have genetic material from 3 people, even though you're still only raised by two?

I don't like it. 3 parents? Genes pumped into me? Me being less than human? No. I don't want it. At least if I die, I can die happily than live like a mutant subject to human torture. I don't like where it would go to. I am alive just fine from my mother and father even though me and my father are rather estranged.

[Gamma Male]

I don't like it. 3 parents? Genes pumped into me? Me being less than human? No. I don't want it. At least if I die, I can die happily than live like a mutant subject to human torture. I don't like where it would go to. I am alive just fine from my mother and father even though me and my father are rather estranged.

You wouldn't be less than human, a freak, or a mutant. Quite frankly those words are offensive to babies who are about to be born using this procedure.

You would still be exactly like anyone else, except your mitochondria wouldn't come from your mother, but another woman. I don't see why this is such a big deal. Your parents are the people who raise you, it shouldn't matter where your dna or mitochondria come from.

[Lovelife090994]

You wouldn't be less than human, a freak, or a mutant. Quite frankly those words are offensive to babies who are about to be born using this procedure.

You would still be exactly like anyone else, except your mitochondria wouldn't come from your mother, but another woman. I don't see why this is such a big deal. Your parents are the people who raise you, it shouldn't matter where your dna or mitochondria come from.

I don't want to genes of another woman. I want to part of my mother and father. This takes the mother away from the child on a biological level! How dare humanity do such a thing. It's despicable! All I know is my parents. I am no orphan, but even for a orphan this wouldn't be right. And I insulted no one. I stated the obvious. To be a human is to have two parents, if you have three and have mutated genes then by that definition you are a mutant.

[Gamma Male]

I don't want to genes of another woman. I want to part of my mother and father. This takes the mother away from the child on a biological level! How dare humanity do such a thing. It's despicable! All I know is my parents. I am no orphan, but even for a orphan this wouldn't be right. And I insulted no one. I stated the obvious. To be a human is to have two parents, if you have three and have mutated genes then by that definition you are a mutant.

The baby is still related to the birthmother, only a very small portion of it's cells are being replaced. And if this can prevent diseases and alleviate potential suffering, I really don't see the problem. Like I said before, your parents are the people who raise you. DNA doesn't matter, family and parenthood is about love and nurture, not a genetic technicallity.

[Lovelife090994]

The baby is still related to the birthmother, only a very small portion of it's cells are being replaced. And if this can prevent diseases and alleviate potential suffering, I really don't see the problem. Like I said before, your parents are the people who raise you. DNA doesn't matter, family and parenthood is about love and nurture, not a genetic technicallity.

I just can't seem to wrap my head ahead the idea, love the idea, and be as liberal as you about it. I don't like where it would go. If I was desperate then maybe, but considering how hopeless and suicidal I'd be, I'd say "forget it. Let me die already."

[Cygnus]

I just can't seem to wrap my head ahead the idea, love the idea, and be as liberal as you about it. I don't like where it would go. If I was desperate then maybe, but considering how hopeless and suicidal I'd be, I'd say "forget it. Let me die already."

So you're saying that a kid with 3 parents is by default hopeless and will want to die? That they won't be able to live a "normal" life or something? I don't tend to point out stuff like this but that is really messed up.

[Lovelife090994]

So you're saying that a kid with 3 parents is by default hopeless and will want to die? That they won't be able to live a "normal" life or something? I don't tend to point out stuff like this but that is really messed up.

It won't stop at three parents. Soon people will tailor make children. That isn't right.

[Cygnus]

It won't stop at three parents. Soon people will tailor make children. That isn't right.

No one said anything about that, you've been asked questions and you've been avoiding them. People would much rather have genetics from 3 people and not be in a wheelchair, believe me. And it doesn't make them less than human, definitely not since that doesn't change much in a person really, they can still be raised by 2 parents, and if that's not right then having a step-parent is not right either? If we started talking about robotic babies then I'd be worried but getting mad at this is making a storm in a cup of water.

[Lovelife090994]

No one said anything about that, you've been asked questions and you've been avoiding them. People would much rather have genetics from 3 people and not be in a wheelchair, believe me. And it doesn't make them less than human, definitely not since that doesn't change much in a person really, they can still be raised by 2 parents, and if that's not right then having a step-parent is not right either? If we started talking about robotic babies then I'd be worried but getting mad at this is making a storm in a cup of water.

More like a storm in a petri dish. This isn't right.

[Vlerchan]

This isn't right.
How so?

[Lovelife090994]

How so?

Three parents? The genes of three people in a person? Taking from another patron to give to an unborn child? Altering the genetic code of a child while in the womb. It's borderline blasphemy.

[Hollywood]

This is looking more and more like a topic for debate, so...

VT Daily Chronicle :arrow2: Ramblings of the Wise

[Vlerchan]

Three parents? The genes of three people in a person? Taking from another patron to give to an unborn child? Altering the genetic code of a child while in the womb.
Do you also disagree with life-saving organ donations?

You also didn't give a reason. You just stated what was happening.

It's borderline blasphemy.
You must have a funny understanding of 'blasphemy'.

[Lovelife090994]

Do you also disagree with life-saving organ donations?

You also didn't give a reason. You just stated what was happening.


You must have a funny understanding of 'blasphemy'.

Organ-donating is not the same as redoing the genes of an unborn child. I don't like it. If you want to alienate yourself then fine, be a cyborg. Me? No, don't come near me.

[Vlerchan]

Organ-donating is not the same as redoing the genes of an unborn child[1]. I don't like it[2]. If you want to alienate yourself then fine[3], be a cyborg[4]. Me? No, don't come near me[5].
[1]: Feel free to explain what the fundamental difference would be.

[2]: You've yet to actual give us a reason for why.

[3]: You're seriously suggesting that these children are now 'aliens'?

[4]: You must have an even funnier understanding of the word 'cyborg'.

[5]: Heh.

[sqishy]

Controversial and not strictly parental unless you see genes as equivalent as a whole upbringing of a child, therefore 'just' with genes from 3 genetic parents.

[Ben_Frost]

Having 3 parents and much lower chances of a debilitating genetic disease? I'd really love to be one of those children.

[Miserabilia]

It would not be three equal genetic parents. It would be two genetic parents and one extra genetic parent for only a certain cellular aspect of the child.
Lovelife, you wouldn't be able to tell them apart by any means, and I'm pretty sure it wouldn't make them aliens or cyborgs.

[Bmble_B]

This sounds perfect to me! Lots of babies will be saved from lives full of hardships! I fully support this!

[StoppingTime]

I can see no logical reason why this would be seen as immoral or any other argument that's been used in this thread against the idea (which, by the way, has existed long prior to now, but more on that later). This technology isn't "redoing" the genes of an unborn child...it's modifying the genetic makeup of a fertilized egg before it develops into a fetus/child/any other word you'd like to use (in)correctly.

As someone already mentioned, advances in genetic engineering and prenatal eugenics (in this case, only in regards to life-altering conditions) shouldn't be seen as people "playing god." If there's technology available to screen for these potential conditions (and there has been for some time, but only now are the noninvasive tests more accurate) and fix them, why wouldn't we? You can be almost certain that the quality of life of the (potential) child will go up with this procedure, so once the technology is better tested and more widely available, would having a child with say, (and this point isn't in specific relation to your article, but to prenatal screenings/eugenics/testing/etc) spina bifida actually be worse than having a child with "three" parents, or some other form of genetically altered procedure? That's a question that, to me at least, doesn't yet have one right answer in all situations, simply because of how new the technology still is, and how it's not widely available, tested, or understood by the general populace.

[thatgothgirluknow]

i think its pretty cool it would give kids who otherwise would be handicapped or die young a chance to lead a normal life

[LouBerry]

More like a storm in a petri dish. This isn't right.

I understand why it's a little worrisome for some people, but think about this.
What if it was your child. Your son or daughter. And they would never get to have a normal life. Never drive, or live independently, all that, plus the foreknowledge that they would live a shortened life. A severely shortened life. A good parent would do anything to save their child from that. The child would still look like you/your wife, would still have the same behavioral traits and things that it would if nothing was done, but instead of having mitochondria that would lead to his or her death, there would be healthy, normally-functioning ones instead. You would be giving your child a chance to have a normal life. It's really no different than someone receiving a new heart or liver or lung, except someone would be donating an organelle instead of an organ.

[Lovelife090994]

I understand why it's a little worrisome for some people, but think about this.
What if it was your child. Your son or daughter. And they would never get to have a normal life. Never drive, or live independently, all that, plus the foreknowledge that they would live a shortened life. A severely shortened life. A good parent would do anything to save their child from that. The child would still look like you/your wife, would still have the same behavioral traits and things that it would if nothing was done, but instead of having mitochondria that would lead to his or her death, there would be healthy, normally-functioning ones instead. You would be giving your child a chance to have a normal life. It's really no different than someone receiving a new heart or liver or lung, except someone would be donating an organelle instead of an organ.

How the heck does it work? I thought it was using the egg or sperm of another to conceive your child.

[Miserabilia]

How the heck does it work? I thought it was using the egg or sperm of another to conceive your child.

"The idea is to give a baby (or, more exactly, a fertilised egg) with misfiring mitochondria a fresh set donated by another woman. That involves removing the nucleus of the fertilised egg (and the DNA it contains) and transplanting it into a second, donor, egg which contains properly-functioning mitochondria. "

[Gamma Male]

How the heck does it work? I thought it was using the egg or sperm of another to conceive your child.

"The idea is to give a baby (or, more exactly, a fertilised egg) with misfiring mitochondria a fresh set donated by another woman. That involves removing the nucleus of the fertilised egg (and the DNA it contains) and transplanting it into a second, donor, egg which contains properly-functioning mitochondria. "

So in other words, absolutely none of the DNA is being replaced. Your child would have all of the same traits he would normally have, except his mitochondria would be healthy.

[Miserabilia]

So in other words, absolutely none of the DNA is being replaced. Your child would have all of the same traits he would normally have, except his mitochondria would be healthy.

^this is what I've been tryint to point out several times in the thread; "three parents" sounds very shocking, like you'll share three collections of chromosomes, but that would have been absolutely impossible.
they'll have two normal parents but one extra set of mitochondria dna, in order to live healthily.

[Lovelife090994]

"The idea is to give a baby (or, more exactly, a fertilised egg) with misfiring mitochondria a fresh set donated by another woman. That involves removing the nucleus of the fertilised egg (and the DNA it contains) and transplanting it into a second, donor, egg which contains properly-functioning mitochondria. "

So in other words, absolutely none of the DNA is being replaced. Your child would have all of the same traits he would normally have, except his mitochondria would be healthy.

^this is what I've been tryint to point out several times in the thread; "three parents" sounds very shocking, like you'll share three collections of chromosomes, but that would have been absolutely impossible.
they'll have two normal parents but one extra set of mitochondria dna, in order to live healthily.

So the child doesn't lose a set of chromosomes from what would be his/her two parents to make room for a third that is now his/her new parent? Wouldn't replacing the genes make it where a husband and wife trying to conceive now have written the husband out as the father?

[Miserabilia]

So the child doesn't lose a set of chromosomes from what would be his/her two parents to make room for a third that is now his/her new parent? Wouldn't replacing the genes make it where a husband and wife trying to conceive now have written the husband out as the father?


What?
I don't understand your question.

[Stronk Serb]

So the child doesn't lose a set of chromosomes from what would be his/her two parents to make room for a third that is now his/her new parent? Wouldn't replacing the genes make it where a husband and wife trying to conceive now have written the husband out as the father?

Nonono. The way I figured it, if they find a faulty organelle in the cell, they just replace it with a new healthy one from another person. It's not writing off the husband.

[Lovelife090994]

What?
I don't understand your question.

I thought it was replacing the parent.

[Gigablue]

So the child doesn't lose a set of chromosomes from what would be his/her two parents to make room for a third that is now his/her new parent? Wouldn't replacing the genes make it where a husband and wife trying to conceive now have written the husband out as the father?

No. A child conceived normally gets 23 chromosomes from their mother, 23 chromosomes from their father, and mitochondria from their mother. A child conceived this way would get 23 chromosomes from their mother, 23 chromosomes from their father, and mitochondria from a donor. The mitochondrial DNA makes up a very small percentage of the overall DNA, so the child would be indistinguishable from a normally conceived child, except for the lack of mitochondrial disease.

Every new reproductive technology goes through a stage where people think it's weird, but eventually, every reproductive technology has been accepted. People like to proclaim that there will be dire consequences, but there never are. Take IVF as an example. People thought at first that it would be horrible, and now it's considered mundane. This technology will likely end up the same way.

Also, one thing that no one has mentioned so far, but that I think is important is that most of the time, the mother of the child suffers from the mitochondrial disease herself. Most mitochondrial diseases are dominant and passed from a mother to all her children. The mother has first hand experience knowing how awful it is to live with a mitochondrial disease. I imagine most parents, especially after experiencing the effects of a serious genetic disease themselves, would do anything to avoid passing it to their children.

[Lovelife090994]

No. A child conceived normally gets 23 chromosomes from their mother, 23 chromosomes from their father, and mitochondria from their mother. A child conceived this way would get 23 chromosomes from their mother, 23 chromosomes from their father, and mitochondria from a donor. The mitochondrial DNA makes up a very small percentage of the overall DNA, so the child would be indistinguishable from a normally conceived child, except for the lack of mitochondrial disease.

Every new reproductive technology goes through a stage where people think it's weird, but eventually, every reproductive technology has been accepted. People like to proclaim that there will be dire consequences, but there never are. Take IVF as an example. People thought at first that it would be horrible, and now it's considered mundane. This technology will likely end up the same way.

Also, one thing that no one has mentioned so far, but that I think is important is that most of the time, the mother of the child suffers from the mitochondrial disease herself. Most mitochondrial diseases are dominant and passed from a mother to all her children. The mother has first hand experience knowing how awful it is to live with a mitochondrial disease. I imagine most parents, especially after experiencing the effects of a serious genetic disease themselves, would do anything to avoid passing it to their children.

Fine. IVF? Is that invetro-fertilization? However it's spelled anyway... Is that making a baby in a test tube? That is freaky bizarre.

[variantwarrior]

Fine. IVF? Is that invetro-fertilization? However it's spelled anyway... Is that making a baby in a test tube? That is freaky bizarre.

I'm pretty sure I have a cousin who was born this way, or some way similar to it, and she's normal. The idea is strange on paper, but it really makes no difference in the long run.

[Lovelife090994]

I'm pretty sure I have a cousin who was born this way, or some way similar to it, and she's normal. The idea is strange on paper, but it really makes no difference in the long run.

She is indeed normal. But talk about odd being conceived in a test tube. Okay I guess, just bizarre.

[Karkat]

I don't like it. 3 parents? Genes pumped into me? Me being less than human? No. I don't want it. At least if I die, I can die happily than live like a mutant subject to human torture. I don't like where it would go to. I am alive just fine from my mother and father even though me and my father are rather estranged.

I find this fairly offensive to anyone who HAS a mitochondrial disease- you would not die happy.

My mom and I have both been speculated to have this (and I hope to god it's just a speculation), and if we do, I would've been more than happy to have the mitochondria work in me, thanks. We're both practically bedridden, and while we do have periods of remission, we're usually fairly... Sick. For lack of a better term.

I personally don't think that we do (and maybe that's wishful thinking- they don't exactly have an explanation for either of us.), partially because my mom is doing really good now, but I know that mitochondrial disease is awful.

I thought it was replacing the parent.

Nope. If anything, it seems mitomom is more like a sperm donor.

She is indeed normal. But talk about odd being conceived in a test tube. Okay I guess, just bizarre.

Eh, not much weirder than insemination. If anything, insemination is weird- sure, more like sex because the sperm is inside you, but also you have the sperm of a man you've (probably) never met inside of you.

But once again, it's kind of a sounds weird thing.

[Lovelife090994]

I find this fairly offensive to anyone who HAS a mitochondrial disease- you would not die happy.

My mom and I have both been speculated to have this (and I hope to god it's just a speculation), and if we do, I would've been more than happy to have the mitochondria work in me, thanks. We're both practically bedridden, and while we do have periods of remission, we're usually fairly... Sick. For lack of a better term.

I personally don't think that we do (and maybe that's wishful thinking- they don't exactly have an explanation for either of us.), partially because my mom is doing really good now, but I know that mitochondrial disease is awful.



Nope. If anything, it seems mitomom is more like a sperm donor.



Eh, not much weirder than insemination. If anything, insemination is weird- sure, more like sex because the sperm is inside you, but also you have the sperm of a man you've (probably) never met inside of you.

But once again, it's kind of a sounds weird thing.

You already know I respect you. I hope you do better and get the proper care you need. But I never go back on my words or opinions that quickly.