Who Has the Right to Judge Anyone Else?

[TheN3rdyOutcast]

Recently, I read the book Nineteen Minutes by Jodi Piccoult and the main message was : "Who, if anyone has the right to judge anyone else?".
After I read the book, I kept asking myself this question. Do I have the right to judge others? Do others have the right to judge me?

[bob97]

You have the right, and others have the right to judge you. It just doesn't mean its ok. People judge way too much these days. Its a big problem. But you can do whatever you want you'll just be a bad person haha. I try not to as much as possible. Its a negative way to live, always doing judging people

[Typhlosion]

SNORE

The whole judgmental thing is really stupid if you actually think about what that word really means.

to form an opinion about (something or someone) after careful thought

: to regard (someone) as either good or bad

law : to make an official decision about (a legal case)

You're telling me that you question whether I may or may not form an opinion of someone? Heck I will, both good and bad ones.

[Blood]

You have the right, and others have the right to judge you. It just doesn't mean its ok. People judge way too much these days. Its a big problem. But you can do whatever you want you'll just be a bad person haha. I try not to as much as possible. Its a negative way to live, always doing judging people

Yeah, I agree with this for the most part. We're human and whether or not we want to we're going to judge other people. It doesn't make you a bad person. Then again, "bad" is such a subjective term.

I don't believing judging people is wrong. But if you let your judgements rule your life...well, that's another story.

[Star Wolf]

Yeah, I agree with this for the most part. We're human and whether or not we want to we're going to judge other people. It doesn't make you a bad person. Then again, "bad" is such a subjective term.

I don't believing judging people is wrong. But if you let your judgements rule your life...well, that's another story.

I agree with this, judging is in human nature. However I feel if you do judge, you should take care not to hurt other people with it, and you shouldn't consider your judgements justification to bully or condemn someone else.

[sixguy6]

No one has the right to

[Gamma Male]

No one has the right to

That's ridiculous. We all judge people all the time. We judge bad parents, we judge corrupt politicians and lawyers, we judge greedy people and sadistic people and self righteous people. "Judging" just means forming an opinion about someone or something. You're saying we're not allowed to form opinions about other people?

[Ben_Frost]

No one has, but everyone loves to.

[Lovelife090994]

Technically judgement is a tool used as a part of survival. We judge right from wrong, safe from harmful, good from bad, left and right, poisonous or edible. Judging is not always bad until it becomes condemnation.

[Camazotz]

Technically judgement is a tool used as a part of survival. We judge right from wrong, safe from harmful, good from bad, left and right, poisonous or edible. Judging is not always bad until it becomes condemnation.

^ Exactly this.

"Judging" is absolutely fine. Harassing and demeaning others is not acceptable. (Note: Criticizing beliefs and ideas is okay, even if it offends someone, as long as the criticisms aren't against the person themselves, just the beliefs)

[Lovelife090994]

^ Exactly this.

"Judging" is absolutely fine. Harassing and demeaning others is not acceptable. (Note: Criticizing beliefs and ideas is okay, even if it offends someone, as long as the criticisms aren't against the person themselves, just the beliefs)

I don't agree with that last part. Beliefs are central to a person and a part of the person. I was raised not to criticize people's beliefs to their face since that is rude; and beliefs are personal. Criticizing and demeaning have a fine line between them.

[Camazotz]

I don't agree with that last part. Beliefs are central to a person and a part of the person. I was raised not to criticize people's beliefs to their face since that is rude; and beliefs are personal. Criticizing and demeaning have a fine line between them.

I don't mind criticizing beliefs that are dumb or immoral. I'll criticize anti-Semitic beliefs, even if they're a central part of who that person is. I don't care how rude it comes off, and I don't care if that person is offended. I think it's important to be able to and be willing to criticize ideas and beliefs.

[LouBerry]

Recently, I read the book Nineteen Minutes by Jodi Piccoult and the main message was : "Who, if anyone has the right to judge anyone else?".
After I read the book, I kept asking myself this question. Do I have the right to judge others? Do others have the right to judge me?

There isn't anything wrong with judgement if it is constructive. If you use judgement to help someone, or to better yourself, it's fine, even necessary.

[Miserabilia]

What about judges?
:P

The funny thing is judges don't actualy judge as in they judge you simply by how they feel about you, they just judge.
We all judge each other. The moment you see someone do something and you form an idea of whether that is good or bad, you are judging.

[britishboy]

Everybody has that right and the fact is everybody judges people.

[Lovelife090994]

I don't mind criticizing beliefs that are dumb or immoral. I'll criticize anti-Semitic beliefs, even if they're a central part of who that person is. I don't care how rude it comes off, and I don't care if that person is offended. I think it's important to be able to and be willing to criticize ideas and beliefs.

I think you mean "ideas" and "anti-sentiments" I'm talking more along the lines of religion which is included under the word "beliefs."

[Bull]

Recently, I read the book Nineteen Minutes by Jodi Piccoult and the main message was : "Who, if anyone has the right to judge anyone else?".
After I read the book, I kept asking myself this question. Do I have the right to judge others? Do others have the right to judge me?

The answer to both questions is NO! Top bad more people don't see it that way.

[Camazotz]

I think you mean "ideas" and "anti-sentiments" I'm talking more along the lines of religion which is included under the word "beliefs."

What about Islamic extremists that believe their mission is to kill as many infidels as possible?

[Lovelife090994]

What about Islamic extremists that believe their mission is to kill as many infidels as possible?

Now this is two-sided. Even for the peaceful Islamists we cannot ignore the difference in the Quran to non-believers versus Christianity's "it's fine, bless you" approach. True, Islam speaks how the world that isn't Islamic is to be eliminated, but the way I see it is that extremists are not the majority. Beliefs or not, whenever the beliefs become deadly and reflect extremism then those beliefs are not religious anymore, they are conflicting with public lives are radical. I don't paint all Muslims the same despite the faith's violent history.

[Miserabilia]

Even for the peaceful Islamists we cannot ignore the difference in the Quran to non-believers versus Christianity's "it's fine, bless you" approach.

*lollll*


Revelation 21:8 - But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
======

Deuteronomy 13:6

If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; 7Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth; 8Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: 9But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. 10And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.
=====

Deuteronomy 13: 13

Certain men, the children of Belial, are gone out from among you, and have withdrawn the inhabitants of their city, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which ye have not known; 14Then shalt thou enquire, and make search, and ask diligently; and, behold, if it be truth, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought among you; 15Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword.

====

Deuteronomy 17:3

And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded; 4And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and enquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel: 5Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.

===

And ofcourse, who could forget:

2 Chronicles 15:13

That whosoever would not seek the LORD God of Israel should be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.

[Lovelife090994]

*lollll*


Revelation 21:8 - But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
======

Deuteronomy 13:6

If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; 7Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth; 8Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: 9But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. 10And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.
=====

Deuteronomy 13: 13

Certain men, the children of Belial, are gone out from among you, and have withdrawn the inhabitants of their city, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which ye have not known; 14Then shalt thou enquire, and make search, and ask diligently; and, behold, if it be truth, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought among you; 15Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword.

====

Deuteronomy 17:3

And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded; 4And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and enquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel: 5Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.

===

And ofcourse, who could forget:

2 Chronicles 15:13

That whosoever would not seek the LORD God of Israel should be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.

Did you not read the rest of my comment? If I wanted your rebuttal I would have asked for it. I won't deny that was said even though Deuteronomy is of the Torah, Jews, and Old but we all know that those verses go back to two. No one gets to The Father unless by Christ. And that one day we shall all face Judgement. Nothing more, nothing less. I don't paint all Islamists the same but I know the Quran has its faults too. But for Christians we are to turn the other cheek and like Matthew 5:44 we are to bless our enemies and pray for them.

[Miserabilia]

Did you not read the rest of my comment? If I wanted your rebuttal I would have asked for it. I won't deny that was said even though Deuteronomy is of the Torah, Jews, and Old but we all know that those verses go back to two. No one gets to The Father unless by Christ. And that one day we shall all face Judgement. Nothing more, nothing less. I don't paint all Islamists the same but I know the Quran has its faults too. But for Christians we are to turn the other cheek and like Matthew 5:44 we are to bless our enemies and pray for them.

If you are going to point out anything in the Quran, I will point you to the same treatment in the bible. The bible doesn't say to bless infidels. When it does, it's contradicting itself, just saying.

[Lovelife090994]

If you are going to point out anything in the Quran, I will point you to the same treatment in the bible. The bible doesn't say to bless infidels. When it does, it's contradicting itself, just saying.

And yet there are no Christian terrorists on the scale of the vast majority of terrorists. The Bible forbade the mistreatment of nonbelievers. In ancient times, which the ancient text still exists, the religion was the laws of Judea so all had to follow that stuff. Now, we know better and we are to treat people better and like Jesus turn the other cheek. Christianity never even uses the word infidels. In fact many Christians have never heard of the word. In Christianity anyone who sees nonbelievers as less or wishes to harm them and not being Christian, at all. Islam and Christianity do differ on their action to nonbelievers and harshness. There is a reason why most of the Holy Land which was once Jewish and Christian is now Islamic. Islamist beliefs state that one can fight for their faith. Christians generally not batting an eye will fight back when necessary and pray; unfortunately we didn't win to help to Jews.

[Harry Smith]

And yet there are no Christian terrorists on the scale of the vast majority of terrorists.


Well that's simply wrong

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Norway_attacks

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-abortion_violence_in_the_United_States#United_States

[Lovelife090994]

Well that's simply wrong

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Norway_attacks

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-abortion_violence_in_the_United_States#United_States

Even still one terrorists doesn't paint all who label themselves under the religion terrorists. I just said how not all Muslims are the same, however; it is sadly true that many terrorists are considered Muslim terrorists. Christian terrorists didn't attack at 9/11 or are the reason why hundreds of Christian girls have been kidnapped recently. Are you really this blind? Protesting abortion and bombing cities are no where near relatable!

[Harry Smith]

Even still one terrorists doesn't paint all who label themselves under the religion terrorists. I just said how not all Muslims are the same, however; it is sadly true that many terrorists are considered Muslim terrorists. Christian terrorists didn't attack at 9/11 or are the reason why hundreds of Christian girls have been kidnapped recently. Are you really this blind? Protesting abortion and bombing cities are no where near relatable!

The examples I cited included the bombings of abortion clinics and the murder of abortion preforming doctors so yes I do consider it similar-I'm not blind but you as you are blinded by your love of christianity and refuse to consider the amount of death and destruction that christian terrorists have committed-I know the mainstream media don't report it as much but you can't trust the US media.

If you read the source you'd see it says violence-that means it terrorism.

In the past christians have committed attacks just as bad as 9/11

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Jerusalem_(1099)

[Miserabilia]

And yet there are no Christian terrorists on the scale of the vast majority of terrorists.

http://markhumphrys.com/Bitmaps/terror.stats.1.png

The Bible forbade the mistreatment of nonbelievers.

No, as I already quoted the bible, it shows god telling his people to kill nonbeleivers, and utterly destroy them.

In ancient times, which the ancient text still exists, the religion was the laws of Judea so all had to follow that stuff. Now, we know better and we are to treat people better and like Jesus turn the other cheek.

Cherry picking, you are doing it.
It doens't matter what "we" do nowadays; you said something about the quran and infidels, and I present to you bible quotes on inifidels.
The old testament is a part of the bible and nowhere does the new testament explicitly say to take the old testament less serious or as the literal word of god.

Christianity never even uses the word infidels. In fact many Christians have never heard of the word.

Completely irrelevant, infidels and non beleivers; it doesn't matter what you call it, the subject still exists.

In Christianity anyone who sees nonbelievers as less or wishes to harm them and not being Christian, at all.

Says who? The bible doesn't say so, unless you cherry pick it very carefuly, it seems to say the opposite at alot of parts.

Islam and Christianity do differ on their action to nonbelievers and harshness. There is a reason why most of the Holy Land which was once Jewish and Christian is now Islamic. Islamist beliefs state that one can fight for their faith.

Sigh sigh sigh so does the bible, the old testament is filled with war, and don't just dismiss it because it's the old testament; it's a part of your religion too.

[Lovelife090994]

image (http://markhumphrys.com/Bitmaps/terror.stats.1.png)



No, as I already quoted the bible, it shows god telling his people to kill nonbeleivers, and utterly destroy them.



Cherry picking, you are doing it.
It doens't matter what "we" do nowadays; you said something about the quran and infidels, and I present to you bible quotes on inifidels.
The old testament is a part of the bible and nowhere does the new testament explicitly say to take the old testament less serious or as the literal word of god.



Completely irrelevant, infidels and non beleivers; it doesn't matter what you call it, the subject still exists.



Says who? The bible doesn't say so, unless you cherry pick it very carefuly, it seems to say the opposite at alot of parts.



Sigh sigh sigh so does the bible, the old testament is filled with war, and don't just dismiss it because it's the old testament; it's a part of your religion too.

It's not cherry picking. It's how Christianity is. As a Christian you are supposed to be Christ-like. Christ didn't look down on nonbelievers. The thing about the Bible is how we have scriptures to speak against the violence. I am saying how much Christianity and Islam differs. True, most Islamists are peaceful, however like the Bible's Old Testament the Quran says some pretty harsh things too. The difference is how the Old Testament is mostly the Jewish Torah, but even the Jews are not to look down on others or convert, or use the religion as an excuse for terrorism, etc. Get it now? Oh who am I kidding? You and I are not going to agree, so this will go on for hours. I say one thing, you say another. You blanket statement, I try to clarify, you accuse me of cherry picking.

[StacyD]

Judges and juries do. Lulz.

So?...two pages of back and forth, Bible quotes...this issue is resolved now, right? *yawn* There is one end-all, be-all answer, right? Right. That's what I thought.

It's very simple. Life is complicated in many areas, but on this one, as I said, it's very simple - everyone has the *right.* Everyone. Just like everyone has the right to believe whatever they want to believe about any topic in life. Now, whether it matters what others think, what others believe, what others feel or how others "judge" one another is something else, but, when it comes down to it, even that is really irrelevant.

Everyone has the *right* and everyone, to some extent, does judge. Simple fact. Whether this thread goes on for another billion pages, the end result will always be the same - people judge, always have, always will. Get over it and live your life to the best of your ability. To hell with what anyone else thinks. Seriously. If you don't make yourself happy, if you don't have confidence in your self, you'll never get that from others.

[Miserabilia]

It's not cherry picking. It's how Christianity is.

According to you.
Many christians take the old testament literal too. You have no right to show your version of christianity and your view on the bible and claim it's "how chrsitianity is", because it's not. It's just your view on it, just like my view on a movie may be a message I get out of it. I'm not going to say that message "is what the movie is".
k?
'Cause that's basicly cherry picking.

The thing about the Bible is how we have scriptures to speak against the violence. I am saying how much Christianity and Islam differs. True, most Islamists are peaceful, however like the Bible's Old Testament the Quran says some pretty harsh things too. The difference is how the Old Testament is mostly the Jewish Torah

Irrelevant. It's a part of your holy book.


but even the Jews are not to look down on others or convert, or use the religion as an excuse for terrorism, etc. Get it now? Oh who am I kidding? You and I are not going to agree, so this will go on for hours. I say one thing, you say another. You blanket statement, I try to clarify, you accuse me of cherry picking.

Where are you getting these rules of what jews can't and can do? Because like I said, bible quotes pretty much say otherwise.

[QUOTE=Lovelife090994;2833231 Oh who am I kidding? You and I are not going to agree, so this will go on for hours. I say one thing, you say another. You blanket statement, I try to clarify, you accuse me of cherry picking.[/QUOTE]

I'm sorry but if I'm "blanket statent'ing, please quote me where and tell me, so I can correct it, just like I am trying to point out your cherrry picking of the bible, which is by definition of cherry picking what you are doing, and we can both hop along happily, etc.

[Lovelife090994]

According to you.
Many christians take the old testament literal too. You have no right to show your version of christianity and your view on the bible and claim it's "how chrsitianity is", because it's not. It's just your view on it, just like my view on a movie may be a message I get out of it. I'm not going to say that message "is what the movie is".
k?
'Cause that's basicly cherry picking.



Irrelevant. It's a part of your holy book.



Where are you getting these rules of what jews can't and can do? Because like I said, bible quotes pretty much say otherwise.



I'm sorry but if I'm "blanket statent'ing, please quote me where and tell me, so I can correct it, just like I am trying to point out your cherrry picking of the bible, which is by definition of cherry picking what you are doing, and we can both hop along happily, etc.

These aren't my beliefs, they're in the Bible. You are not supposed to look down on others or be on a pedestal. You are not supposed to stone people. You know that. Or don't you? I'll go with "don't". I'd appreciate it if you stopped accusing me of stuff. Yes, many people take the Bible too literal, that doesn't make it right. And the Bible is made up of many books, be specific. All I'm doing is pulling ideas and quotes as reference. Technically you bringing up articles is cherry picking the internet.

[Miserabilia]

These aren't my beliefs, they're in the Bible.

Please quote me where the bible explicitly says to take the new testament over the old testament, or ignore the things the old testament says about infidels should be killed.

You are not supposed to look down on others or be on a pedestal. You are not supposed to stone people. You know that. Or don't you? I'll go with "don't".

Just because something is common sense doesn't mean it's also a part of your religion.


I'd appreciate it if you stopped accusing me of stuff.

I have "accused" you of cherry picking because you cherry pick parts of the bible, as in you are taking certain parts serious, but other parts are just because things were like that back then, or they have been rewritten too much, etc. You don't take everything in both the new and old testament with the same seriousnes. That's just cherry picking, I'm not saying that to bully you, it is just and it really slows down any productive disussion.


Yes, many people take the Bible too literal, that doesn't make it right.

And many people think like you and take only parts of the bible literal, but that doesn't make it right either. As a matter of fact, there's no definition in christianity to which parts of the bible must be taken literaly, and since the bible is the symbol of christianity, I think we're pretty much free to quote just about any part of the bible as argument for anything.

And the Bible is made up of many books, be specific.

Irrelevant. Symbol of christianity.

All I'm doing is pulling ideas and quotes as reference.

So am I, and there's nothing wrong with posting links or quotes to anything from anyone, unless you cherry pick or quote mine them.

Technically you bringing up articles is cherry picking the internet.

Technicaly I am not. I'm not going to say "everything in this particular article is the truth", but then onlly show and use the things said in the article that speak to me or are true, while other things actaly aren't true.

[Lovelife090994]

Please quote me where the bible explicitly says to take the new testament over the old testament, or ignore the things the old testament says about infidels should be killed.



Just because something is common sense doesn't mean it's also a part of your religion.




I have "accused" you of cherry picking because you cherry pick parts of the bible, as in you are taking certain parts serious, but other parts are just because things were like that back then, or they have been rewritten too much, etc. You don't take everything in both the new and old testament with the same seriousnes. That's just cherry picking, I'm not saying that to bully you, it is just and it really slows down any productive disussion.




And many people think like you and take only parts of the bible literal, but that doesn't make it right either. As a matter of fact, there's no definition in christianity to which parts of the bible must be taken literaly, and since the bible is the symbol of christianity, I think we're pretty much free to quote just about any part of the bible as argument for anything.



Irrelevant. Symbol of christianity.



So am I, and there's nothing wrong with posting links or quotes to anything from anyone, unless you cherry pick or quote mine them.



Technicaly I am not. I'm not going to say "everything in this particular article is the truth", but then onlly show and use the things said in the article that speak to me or are true, while other things actaly aren't true.

Technically you are. I am not cherry picking as you call it; I am talking. You aren't even at least considering anything I say or what was said by Christ. Christ didn't look down on nonbelievers, he prayed for them; that is what all Christians are instructed to do. Muslims typically do this too even though their holy book speaks so bad about infidels.

[Miserabilia]

Technically you are. I am not cherry picking as you call it; I am talking. You aren't even at least considering anything I say or what was said by Christ. Christ didn't look down on nonbelievers, he prayed for them; that is what all Christians are instructed to do. Muslims typically do this too even though their holy book speaks so bad about infidels.

i don't think you know what (figurative, obviously) cherry picking is. Please look it up.
I'm concidering everything you say which is why I'm responding to everything seperatly.

[Lovelife090994]

i don't think you know what (figurative, obviously) cherry picking is. Please look it up.
I'm concidering everything you say which is why I'm responding to everything seperatly.

I know what cherry picking is. It's an insult used to accuse Christians of skipping parts of the Bible.

[Gamma Male]

Come now, that wasn't nice.

Do you really believe that the bible is any less violent and hate filled than the Quran?

Yeah, I know the bible has it's good verses, but so does the Quran. For every loving, good bible verse you can name I can name a Quran verse just as good and loving. And for every Quran verse you can name that's full of hate and death, I can name a bible verse that's just as bad.

What I'm saying is both books have good and bad verses and saying that the Quran is more violent than the Bible is false.

[Miserabilia]

I know what cherry picking is. It's an insult used to accuse Christians of skipping parts of the Bible.

Oh. Sorry I honestly thought you were kidding /:

[Lovelife090994]

Do you really believe that the bible is any less violent and hate filled than the Quran?

Yeah, I know the bible has it's good verses, but so does the Quran. For every loving, good bible verse you can name I can name a Quran verse just as good and loving. And for every Quran verse you can name that's full of hate and death, I can name a bible verse that's just as bad.

What I'm saying is both books have good and bad verses and saying that the Quran is more violent than the Bible is false.

Maybe, but not quite. You have to admit there is a dangerous epidemic or violence done in the name of Islam. While Islamists speak out (or should) speak out against this, it has not stopped and has been in existence since Islam's birth. I thought you saw all religion, all religious books, and all religious people as evil and insane. Has there been a change of heart, or are you running out of words to say?

Oh. Sorry I honestly thought you were kidding /:

No. I rarely kid. I'd no jokester.

[Gamma Male]

Maybe, but not quite. You have to admit there is a dangerous epidemic or violence done in the name of Islam. While Islamists speak out (or should) speak out against this, it has not stopped and has been in existence since Islam's birth. I thought you saw all religion, all religious books, and all religious people as evil and insane. Has there been a change of heart, or are you running out of words to say?



No. I rarely kid. I'd no jokester.

While it's true that recently there have been more violent conflicts due to Islam than to Christianity, if you look at their individual histories you'll see that both have their share of violence and bloodshed attached to them. I could point you to the Crusades, the Inquisition, the Salem witch trials, and any number of human rights violations committed in the name of Christianity(and Islam, for that matter). I'm not denying any of the good Christianity has done through charity and whatnot, but both religions have very bloody histories. You can't deny that.

[Lovelife090994]

While it's true that recently there have been more violent conflicts due to Islam than to Christianity, if you look at their individual histories you'll see that both have their share of violence and bloodshed attached to them. I could point you to the Crusades, the Inquisition, the Salem witch trials, and any number of human rights violations committed in the name of Christianity(and Islam, for that matter). I'm not denying any of the good Christianity has done through charity and whatnot, but both religions have very bloody histories. You can't deny that.

I'm talking about the now. Christianity has its flaws, Islam has its flaws, every faith has its flaws (at least in history) we can all agree there. However I must say that you make quite a claim. I am bringing up what is happening now. And the Crusades was in direct reaction to Muslims sacking of the Holy Land and invasions into Europe. You forgot that part did you? The Inquisition I have yet to study on but was of the acts of a man, not of God. Salem only had one true witch, the rest was fueled by hysteria and does not reflect Christendom. Islam however since inception is still committing violent acts. Why? Why the terrorism? Why not the public outcry without them getting killed? Why the violence still to Christians and Jews? Don't you see a pattern here?

[Gamma Male]

I'm talking about the now. Christianity has its flaws, Islam has its flaws, every faith has its flaws (at least in history) we can all agree there. However I must say that you make quite a claim. I am bringing up what is happening now. And the Crusades was in direct reaction to Muslims sacking of the Holy Land and invasions into Europe. You forgot that part did you? The Inquisition I have yet to study on but was of the acts of a man, not of God. Salem only had one true witch, the rest was fueled by hysteria and does not reflect Christendom. Islam however since inception is still committing violent acts. Why? Why the terrorism? Why not the public outcry without them getting killed? Why the violence still to Christians and Jews? Don't you see a pattern here?

Islam is just younger than Christianity I guess. But both are responsible for massive acts of violence and bloodshed. And people are still using Christianity to justify hatred, murder, and oppression.

And as for the bolded part, really? Just.... seriously? Witches are real?

[Lovelife090994]

Islam is just younger than Christianity I guess. But both are responsible for massive acts of violence and bloodshed. And people are still using Christianity to justify hatred, murder, and oppression.

And as for the bolded part, really? Just.... seriously? Witches are real?

There was only one true trial, the rest was hysteria. Supposedly only one person truly did side with Satan. Islam is younger, that is true. Christianity predates it by more than a thousand years. I understand the violence today and then but I cannot be like you and ignore what is happening now. Christians are not using their faith to blow up buildings, kidnap girls, or start a war on the Jews. If Islamists seek to not be judged they need to do something about the many radicals. And Christians take a lot of crap yet we don't fight back. You can demean us and make fun of Jesus and we'll pray for you. Make fun of Mohammed, haha, it'll be your head. And using words is way better than using a blade, that's how Islam spread. Look at Constantinople, the Hagia Sophia, the Buddhist Statues destroyed in Asia, 9/11, Islamic Terrorism. It hasn't stopped!

[Camazotz]

There was only one true trial, the rest was hysteria. Supposedly only one person truly did side with Satan.

...What?

Christians are not using their faith to blow up buildings, kidnap girls, or start a war on the Jews. If Islamists seek to not be judged they need to do something about the many radicals. And Christians take a lot of crap yet we don't fight back. You can demean us and make fun of Jesus and we'll pray for you. Make fun of Mohammed, haha, it'll be your head. And using words is way better than using a blade, that's how Islam spread. Look at Constantinople, the Hagia Sophia, the Buddhist Statues destroyed in Asia, 9/11, Islamic Terrorism. It hasn't stopped!

So we're generalizing Islam based on the extremist beliefs held by a small portion of the religion, but we can't do that with Christian extremists?

[Lovelife090994]

...What?



So we're generalizing Islam based on the extremist beliefs held by a small portion of the religion, but we can't do that with Christian extremists?

Christian extremists are threatening to bomb all of Israel now are they? Are you denying that radicals exist on both sides? Islamic terrorists need to be stopped.

[Miserabilia]

Christian extremists are threatening to bomb all of Israel now are they? Are you denying that radicals exist on both sides? Islamic terrorists need to be stopped.

He wasn't even close to implying any of those things.
All terrorists need to be stopped, every religion has extremists.
There is no real difference in the religions of islam and christianity, the true difference lies in the culture and development of the country. You'll see a pattern of time, where alot of middle eastern countries are culturaly in almost a dark age, or atleast tempt to do that, because they are too attached to their religion, if that makes any sense.
Islam has such a negative image because it's still so strictly held by the people, just like christianity used to be.

[Vlerchan]

Islam has a negative image in the west because it promotes values incompatible with the liberal-western mindset. It's little to do with the strictness or lack thereof of the dogma: if it was promoting liberalism we wouldn't care.

[Miserabilia]

Islam has a negative image in the west because it promotes values incompatible with the liberal-western [1]mindset. It's little to do with the strictness or lack thereof of the dogma: if it was promoting liberalism [2] we wouldn't care.

It's little to do with the strictness or lack thereof of the dogma

It has alot to do with is, if we would have bible laws and folow them strictly that would be pretty close to sharia countries, no?

[1]+[2] = ?? Ofcourse we would care. We're blaming islam for the way it is followed, no the way the religion is as basis, the moment they would follow it differently and liberaly it wouldn't have such a bad image.

[Vlerchan]

snip.
I'm saying that we oppose it on the basis of its values - and not so much as how it is followed.

If it promoted liberal-western values then we wouldn't care either way.

[Camazotz]

I'm saying that we oppose it on the basis of its values - and not so much as how it is followed.

If it promoted liberal-western values then we wouldn't care either way.

Yes we would, if it followed a violent, extremist method of promoting their values. I agree exactly with what Cheese is saying: Islam isn't the problem, it's the cultural aspect of strict adherence by their extremist groups. There's nothing wrong with being Muslim just the same as there's nothing wrong with being Christian. There is something wrong with using those beliefs to justify mass killing, though. If they bombed people under the goal of "equal marriage equality, equal gender role, etc." it would still be a problem for many people because they're taking their message to violent means.

[Lovelife090994]

He wasn't even close to implying any of those things.
All terrorists need to be stopped, every religion has extremists.
There is no real difference in the religions of islam and christianity, the true difference lies in the culture and development of the country. You'll see a pattern of time, where alot of middle eastern countries are culturaly in almost a dark age, or atleast tempt to do that, because they are too attached to their religion, if that makes any sense.
Islam has such a negative image because it's still so strictly held by the people, just like christianity used to be.

Christianity and Islam are very different faiths. Islam has a bad name because of all the terror done in it.

[Vlerchan]

Yes we would, if it followed a violent, extremist method of promoting their values. I agree exactly with what Cheese is saying: Islam isn't the problem, it's the cultural aspect of strict adherence by their extremist groups. There's nothing wrong with being Muslim just the same as there's nothing wrong with being Christian. There is something wrong with using those beliefs to justify mass killing, though. If they bombed people under the goal of "equal marriage equality, equal gender role, etc." it would still be a problem for many people because they're taking their message to violent means.
I'd consider there to be a difference between strict adherence (i.e., how muslims follow their beliefs) to ones own beliefs and violently trying to force them on others (which goes beyond following). I also didn't think, from reading, that he was really referring to Islamists at all: he said we'd a dim view of Islam because it was strictly held by people, i.e., the strict adherence is necessarily a bad thing, which seems to me to be a criticism that was really not all that directed at Islamists as much as the general practitioner.

[Miserabilia]

Christianity and Islam are very different faiths. Islam has a bad name because of all the terror done in it.

They are extremely similar at basis, the difference is that islam is being practiced now the way christianity was 800 years ago, it's a time difference.

[Lovelife090994]

They are extremely similar at basis, the difference is that islam is being practiced now the way christianity was 800 years ago, it's a time difference.

Not quite. Christians have always been scapegoated just like the Jews. I'll never approve of what the Muslim Horde did to Constantinople. There are no Christian cities left on the planet. Our faith has grown of peace yet everyone hatees us. No more this can be. Islam was of violence and still. I do not see Islam as peaceful. It is strict and scary. And more of a cult. To leave Islam results in death. Just recently a Christian woman was stoned in Sudan for basically not being Muslim. I don't approve. What worse is that the Quran defends it and Muslims live this out. The good Muslims are killed and never speak out. Violence happens everyday in the name of Allah. Pretty soon there will be global attacks. We must stop this and quit blaming Christians and Jews for all terrorism.

[sqishy]

I think almost everyone judges almost everyone else, whether it should be like that, idk

[Miserabilia]

Not quite. Christians have always been scapegoated just like the Jews. [1] I'll never approve of what the Muslim Horde did to Constantinople. There are no Christian cities left on the planet. Our faith has grown of peace yet everyone hatees us. [2] No more this can be. Islam was of violence and still. [3] I do not see Islam as peaceful. [4] It is strict and scary. [5]And more of a cult. [6] To leave Islam results in death. Just recently a Christian woman was stoned in Sudan for basically not being Muslim. I don't approve. [7] What worse is that the Quran defends it and Muslims live this out. The good Muslims are killed and never speak out. Violence happens everyday in the name of Allah. [8] Pretty soon there will be global attacks.

[1]; I said at basis, as in the basis of the beleifs.

[2]; no. Christianity is the most popular religion in the united states, over 80% of the american government is christian, and christians generaly get more votes in america. By simply looking at politics I can see that no, not everybody hates christians.

[3]: It's a younger religion than christianity, and like christianity, it changes over time. It is now in a phase christianity has been in as well.

[4]: I don't either.

[5]: No, sharia laws are strict and scary. Islam itself is based on a book just like christianity, which in itself isn't strict and scary untill you start following it strictly and scary.

[6]: Give me one reason that makes islam more of a cult than christianity.

[7]: I don't either, but again, that's not islam, that's sharia; it's a strict and literal following of certain islam aspects. I don't approove personaly, but I'm not going to blame the religion

[8]: Which is sad and terrible, but it's not the religion's fault, it's the execution of it. I've heard you yourself say this about christianity so you should see what I mean.

We must stop this and quit blaming Christians and Jews for all terrorism.

...
I'm sorry, but if you are going to accuse someone else of a blanket statement, please don't say things like these, as nobody here is blaming christians and jews for all terrorism, as a matter of fact, I can't even think of an insane person that does.
Nobody does.
You're either completely misinterpetating several arguments or you're making a straw man of them.

[Lovelife090994]

[1]; I said at basis, as in the basis of the beleifs.

[2]; no. Christianity is the most popular religion in the united states, over 80% of the american government is christian, and christians generaly get more votes in america. By simply looking at politics I can see that no, not everybody hates christians.

[3]: It's a younger religion than christianity, and like christianity, it changes over time. It is now in a phase christianity has been in as well.

[4]: I don't either.

[5]: No, sharia laws are strict and scary. Islam itself is based on a book just like christianity, which in itself isn't strict and scary untill you start following it strictly and scary.

[6]: Give me one reason that makes islam more of a cult than christianity.

[7]: I don't either, but again, that's not islam, that's sharia; it's a strict and literal following of certain islam aspects. I don't approove personaly, but I'm not going to blame the religionm

[8]: Which is sad and terrible, but it's not the religion's fault, it's the execution of it. I've heard you yourself say this about christianity so you should see what I mean.



...
I'm sorry, but if you are going to accuse someone else of a blanket statement, please don't say things like these, as nobody here is blaming christians and jews for all terrorism, as a matter of fact, I can't even think of an insane person that does.
Nobody does.
You're either completely misinterpetating several arguments or you're making a straw man of them.


I don't like the fact that if you leave Islam you can be killed and might whilst that all being okay. Sharia will spread to the West sooner or later. It's only a matter of time. And Christians are not as widespread as you may think here in the US. You can make fun of Christians and Jews, but if you make fun of Muslims then you are an enemy and will be ridiculed, hurt, and whatever was offensive will be banned. No one cares about any faith anymore. No one is decent and loving anymore.

[Miserabilia]

I don't like the fact that if you leave Islam you can be killed and might whilst that all being okay.

No. If you live in a sharia country and you leave islam, you can be killed. If you live in the united states and you leave islam, you just leave islam. Don't blame the religion for sharia, blame the sharia countries for being stuck in some kind of cultural dark age.



Could you please point out a single fact or observation that makes you think this? Do you honestly think, that sooner or later, the united states will follow sharia as law system? Why? I'm intrigued.


[QUOTE=Lovelife090994;2836419] And Christians are not as widespread as you may think here in the US.

They are. Most of the population is christian.
http://freebooks.uvu.edu/SOC1010/images/stories/Ch15/Ch15Slide2.jpg



You can make fun of Christians and Jews, but if you make fun of Muslims then you are an enemy and will be ridiculed, hurt,

Yes, and I am strongly against that, however that is not to blame directly on the religion, it's to blame on it's followers. Again, you have said this yourself about christianity, you should see where I'm coming from here.

and whatever was offensive will be banned.

Banned from what? Could you specify?

No one cares about any faith anymore

http://www.adherents.com/images/rel_pie.gif

The fact that almost all of the world is still religious seems to show the opposite.


No one is decent and loving anymore.

I regret that opinion, because just beeing on this site has shown to me atleast that there are plenty of decent and loving people.

[Stronk Serb]

Not quite. Christians have always been scapegoated just like the Jews. I'll never approve of what the Muslim Horde did to Constantinople. There are no Christian cities left on the planet. Our faith has grown of peace yet everyone hatees us. No more this can be. Islam was of violence and still. I do not see Islam as peaceful. It is strict and scary. And more of a cult. To leave Islam results in death. Just recently a Christian woman was stoned in Sudan for basically not being Muslim. I don't approve. What worse is that the Quran defends it and Muslims live this out. The good Muslims are killed and never speak out. Violence happens everyday in the name of Allah. Pretty soon there will be global attacks. We must stop this and quit blaming Christians and Jews for all terrorism.

Your faith has grown from peace? What about the peaceful Slavic tribes you butchered and forcefully converted? What about the Suomi and American tribes and empires too? And Derpzantium was sacked and ravaged by Christians about 245 years before the Ottomans took it. Fourth Crusade rings a bell?

[Lovelife090994]

Your faith has grown from peace? What about the peaceful Slavic tribes you butchered and forcefully converted? What about the Suomi and American tribes and empires too? And Derpzantium was sacked and ravaged by Christians about 245 years before the Ottomans took it. Fourth Crusade rings a bell?

You do realize that you have just blamed an entire billions worth for the acts of few? Why not mention what Muslims and Pagans did to each other and to Jews? You know I don't approve of violence. Christianity is different than most religions. We send missionaries and preachers; not warriors. Muslims invaded Europe centuries ago which spawned the Crusades to take back the Holy Land. The story is quite long. The Ottomans took Byzantine, Istanbul was once Orthodox Christian. And America was taken by greedy conquistadors long ago before Colonization.

[Gamma Male]

You do realize that you have just blamed an entire billions worth for the acts of few? Why not mention what Muslims and Pagans did to each other and to Jews? You know I don't approve of violence. Christianity is different than most religions. We send missionaries and preachers; not warriors. Muslims invaded Europe centuries ago which spawned the Crusades to take back the Holy Land. The story is quite long. The Ottomans took Byzantine, Istanbul was once Orthodox Christian. And America was taken by greedy conquistadors long ago before Colonization.

So when something bad is done in the name of Christianity, it's just the fault of a few bad apples, and has nothing to do with Christianity as a whole. But when something bad is done in the name of Islam, it's Islam's fault?


That's completely hypocritical. Islam and Christianity are both just as bad, and Islam and Christianity have both had huge amounts of violence committed in their names.

[Lovelife090994]

So when something bad is done in the name of Christianity, it's just the fault of a few bad apples, and has nothing to do with Christianity as a whole. But when something bad is done in the name of Islam, it's Islam's fault?


That's completely hypocritical. Islam and Christianity are both just as bad, and Islam and Christianity have both had huge amounts of violence committed in their names.

The Quran justifies violence, Christianity doesn't and can't.

[Miserabilia]

The Quran justifies violence, Christianity doesn't and can't.

Sigh. I could post many many bible quotes that justify violence, but if you still stand by the statement you just said it's appearently useles.

[Gamma Male]

The Quran justifies violence, Christianity doesn't and can't.

So you're saying there are no bible verses that justify, condone, or promote violence?

[Lovelife090994]

Sigh. I could post many many bible quotes that justify violence, but if you still stand by the statement you just said it's appearently useles.

I stand by it based on what I've read in the Quran. That book has scarier things in it than the Bible! And the Bible can be pretty cut and dry!

[Gamma Male]

I stand by it based on what I've read in the Quran. That book has scarier things in it than the Bible! And the Bible can be pretty cut and dry!

The Quran has just as many loving, peaceful, tolerant verses as the bible. Do you want me to name some?

[Stronk Serb]

You do realize that you have just blamed an entire billions worth for the acts of few? Why not mention what Muslims and Pagans did to each other and to Jews? You know I don't approve of violence. Christianity is different than most religions. We send missionaries and preachers; not warriors. Muslims invaded Europe centuries ago which spawned the Crusades to take back the Holy Land. The story is quite long. The Ottomans took Byzantine, Istanbul was once Orthodox Christian. And America was taken by greedy conquistadors long ago before Colonization.

Christians sacked Byzantium two centuries before the Ottomans took it. Fourth Crusade which had nothing to do with crusading, but had a lot to do with the burning, raping and pillaging of Byzantium and establishing the Latin Empire. Now you are blanketing all Pagans. Just because some Norse berserkers or Tengri horsemen raided across Europe doesn't mean a
lavic or Suomi Pagan will do the same. There are a lot of Paganreligions and you are generalizing

[Miserabilia]

I stand by it based on what I've read in the Quran. That book has scarier things in it than the Bible! And the Bible can be pretty cut and dry!

I'd rate them equaly "scary".
Something as subjective as that doesn't really support any argument against islam, tbh.

[Lovelife090994]

I'd rate them equaly "scary".
Something as subjective as that doesn't really support any argument against islam, tbh.

The Quran has just as many loving, peaceful, tolerant verses as the bible. Do you want me to name some?

Perhaps, but until I feel loved and welcomed by others I don't see room to give it back. Besides, I know there are peaceful Muslims out there; I just never met them. People love to defend Islam but then they all spit on Christianity. I don't like Islam that much really.

[Gamma Male]

Perhaps, but until I feel loved and welcomed by others I don't see room to give it back. Besides, I know there are peaceful Muslims out there; I just never met them. People love to defend Islam but then they all spit on Christianity. I don't like Islam that much really.

Perhaps, but until I feel loved and welcomed by others I don't see room to give it back. Besides, I know there are peaceful Christians out there; I just never met them. People love to defend Christianity but then they all spit on Islam. I don't like Christianity that much really.


See? It's just meaningless rhetoric, and it it's equally invalid both ways.

[Lovelife090994]

Perhaps, but until I feel loved and welcomed by others I don't see room to give it back. Besides, I know there are peaceful Christians out there; I just never met them. People love to defend Christianity but then they all spit on Islam. I don't like Christianity that much really.


See? It's just meaningless rhetoric, and it it's equally invalid both ways.

Not quite. You can have that belief and idea as I can have that. That wasn't meaningless, I was being sincerely honest there.

[Miserabilia]

I don't like Islam that much really.

This is pretty much what it comes down to.

[Lovelife090994]

This is pretty much what it comes down to.

Explain?

[Miserabilia]

Explain?

The base of your argument is that you don't like islam.

[Lovelife090994]

The base of your argument is that you don't like islam.

Yes and no. I was trying to get you to see that Islamic terrorists exist.

[Miserabilia]

Yes and no. I was trying to get you to see that Islamic terrorists exist.

What?

[Lovelife090994]

What?

I said I was trying to get you to see that Islamic terrorists exist. And I was telling how Islam is judged based on that and Sharia.

[StoppingTime]

I said I was trying to get you to see that Islamic terrorists exist. And I was telling how Islam is judged based on that and Sharia.

Have you ever considered the possibility that simply because you judge a population of 1.6 billion people as those who "follow Sharia" and "have terrorists" is incorrect? Sharia is a misunderstood blanket term that people throw around, and simply assume it's allows Muslim men to stone women, have an endless number of women, and commit acts of terror "in the name of god." But if you were to actually think for second, how many people do you honestly think follow Sharia like that? Sure, there are countries who enforce it to inhumane and ridiculous degrees, but then again, there are a number of countries that have both a substantial Muslim population, and Sharia plays either no influence in law, or only in personal matters.

I think everyone in this thread is "aware that 'Islamic' terrorists exist." But again, don't you see the flaw there? The majority of the Muslim community see extremists as...just that, and don't see them as followers of Islam. So why should you?

[Jean Poutine]

Perhaps, but until I feel loved and welcomed by others I don't see room to give it back.

What a Christian you are!

See what I did there, I just judged your entire spirituality using a sentence of 18 or 19 words, depending on how you count them. The scary thing is that I'm right, since do unto others as you would have done unto yourself, love thy neighbor and whatnot.

Besides, I know there are peaceful Muslims out there; I just never met them.

Do you live in Bumfuck, NH or something? Have you ever even met a Muslim? 99.999999999% of them are these peaceful Muslims you talk about. Of course, that's a false dichotomy, and I wonder why there isn't a distinction for members of any other religion. People are peaceful, or they are not. I fail to see what religion has to do with this. Someone who is not peaceful of temperament will find any excuse to be violent. If not religion, then something else.

Oh, I got an idea. To make it fair, we will subdivide Christians into "child molesters" and "non-child molesters". I don't give a flying fuck that most of the child molesting is done by a certain holy order of a certain Christian sect, just as most of the terrorism is done by a certain sect of a certain subdivision of Islam. Until you prove otherwise, I'm going to treat you as a child molester. Even if you are not, I'm going to continually contrast you with the Christian child molesters, telling you how nice it is that you do not follow the portion of your faith that calls for child molesting. Somehow, even if the vast majority of Christians aren't child molesters, I'm going to hold you continually as an exception and will define your religion and your worth as a human being on whether you touch children or not. How'd you like that?

People love to defend Islam but then they all spit on Christianity.

Enter typical Christian persecution complex.

I don't like Islam that much really.

Why?

Well, I'll tell you why I don't like Islam, it's because whenever I'm out in the Old Town at a terrasse having a quiet time, nursing a totally-not-piss Canadian beer in my lap, there's always a bearded Muslim fellow with his ninja wife and their army of anchor babies ripping it out of my hands, spitting in it, shattering it onto the ground while yelling "ALCOHOL IS HARAM YOU INFIDEL!" Then he tells me to say the shahadah three times or he'll behead me with his jambiya. To my count, I have converted to Islam 37 times due to the continual loss of my beers in this fashion. Allahu akbar!

Oh wait, that's me into fantasy land again!

I said I was trying to get you to see that Islamic terrorists exist. And I was telling how Islam is judged based on that and Sharia.

The correct word to use here is misjudged.

Besides, if the Tea Party is any indication, there are plenty of Christian terrorists too. They just don't blow themselves up.

One other thing : the existence of the word "misjudged" pretty much answers this thread, I believe. People judge other people all the time. Sometimes they are right, sometimes they are wrong. But mostly, we can't help it. When we think "I'm going to go talk to this girl, she looks nice", we're judging. When we think "better switch walkways because there is a group of rowdy teenagers walking my way", we're judging. When an employer is asked to hire a new employee based on a 20 minutes interview and a piece of paper, he is still judging.

We simply do not have the time nor the patience to establish a deep connection with everyone we meet. Sometimes, an educated guess is the best we can work with. And of course, everyone has the right to make educated guesses about everyone else. If they are completely false, so what?

[Lovelife090994]

Have you ever considered the possibility that simply because you judge a population of 1.6 billion people as those who "follow Sharia" and "have terrorists" is incorrect? Sharia is a misunderstood blanket term that people throw around, and simply assume it's allows Muslim men to stone women, have an endless number of women, and commit acts of terror "in the name of god." But if you were to actually think for second, how many people do you honestly think follow Sharia like that? Sure, there are countries who enforce it to inhumane and ridiculous degrees, but then again, there are a number of countries that have both a substantial Muslim population, and Sharia plays either no influence in law, or only in personal matters.

I think everyone in this thread is "aware that 'Islamic' terrorists exist." But again, don't you see the flaw there? The majority of the Muslim community see extremists as...just that, and don't see them as followers of Islam. So why should you?

I don't like Islam. I haven't had good experiences and their faith creeps me out. Even some Christian doctrines do. That's why I'm pretty alone when it comes to my faith.

What a Christian you are!

See what I did there, I just judged your entire spirituality using a sentence of 18 or 19 words, depending on how you count them. The scary thing is that I'm right, since do unto others as you would have done unto yourself, love thy neighbor and whatnot.



Do you live in Bumfuck, NH or something? Have you ever even met a Muslim? 99.999999999% of them are these peaceful Muslims you talk about. Of course, that's a false dichotomy, and I wonder why there isn't a distinction for members of any other religion. People are peaceful, or they are not. I fail to see what religion has to do with this. Someone who is not peaceful of temperament will find any excuse to be violent. If not religion, then something else.

Oh, I got an idea. To make it fair, we will subdivide Christians into "child molesters" and "non-child molesters". I don't give a flying fuck that most of the child molesting is done by a certain holy order of a certain Christian sect, just as most of the terrorism is done by a certain sect of a certain subdivision of Islam. Until you prove otherwise, I'm going to treat you as a child molester. Even if you are not, I'm going to continually contrast you with the Christian child molesters, telling you how nice it is that you do not follow the portion of your faith that calls for child molesting. Somehow, even if the vast majority of Christians aren't child molesters, I'm going to hold you continually as an exception and will define your religion and your worth as a human being on whether you touch children or not. How'd you like that?



Enter typical Christian persecution complex.



Why?

Well, I'll tell you why I don't like Islam, it's because whenever I'm out in the Old Town at a terrasse having a quiet time, nursing a totally-not-piss Canadian beer in my lap, there's always a bearded Muslim fellow with his ninja wife and their army of anchor babies ripping it out of my hands, spitting in it, shattering it onto the ground while yelling "ALCOHOL IS HARAM YOU INFIDEL!" Then he tells me to say the shahadah three times or he'll behead me with his jambiya. To my count, I have converted to Islam 37 times due to the continual loss of my beers in this fashion.

Oh wait, that's me into fantasy land again!



The correct word to use here is misjudged.

Besides, if the Tea Party is any indication, there are plenty of Christian terrorists too. They just don't blow themselves up.

One other thing : the existence of the word "misjudged" pretty much answers this thread, I believe. People judge other people all the time. Sometimes they are right, sometimes they are wrong. But mostly, we can't help it. When we think "I'm going to go talk to this girl, she looks nice", we're judging. When we think "better switch walkways because there is a group of rowdy teenagers walking my way", we're judging. When an employer is asked to hire a new employee based on a 20 minutes interview and a piece of paper, he is still judging.

We simply do not have the time nor the patience to establish a deep connection with everyone we meet. Sometimes, an educated guess is the best we can work with. And of course, everyone has the right to make educated guesses about everyone else. If they are completely false, so what?

I don't like Islam. I haven't had good experiences and their faith creeps me out. Even some Christian doctrines do. That's why I'm pretty alone when it comes to my faith. I am not a perfect Christian. I know that. I tried to be but I failed that. One thing you need to learn about me is how I have crazy swings and multiple personas sometimes. I go from warm to cold and I can be very heartless. Like at the moment I pretty much hate all of humanity, but I'm sure that'll pass soon. I'm sorry if I offended you, but I take back nothing.

[StoppingTime]

I don't like Islam. I haven't had good experiences and their faith creeps me out.

Care to...elaborate? And if not, let's just discuss your use of the word "faith" here. How could their faith as a whole creep you out? I'm not sure how you define that word, but faith is something that's generally very personal to someone, so I find it incredibly unlikely that the "faith" of all 1.3 billion Muslims "creeps you out."


Even some Christian doctrines do.

Wow! Look how unrelated this statement is!

I am not a perfect Christian. I know that. I tried to be but I failed that.

Nobody's asking you to be a perfect anything; this debate isn't about you. This is about the fact that you just dismiss billions of people because you think they're "creepy" in their beliefs.



One thing you need to learn about me is how I have crazy swings and multiple personas sometimes. I go from warm to cold and I can be very heartless. Like at the moment I pretty much hate all of humanity, but I'm sure that'll pass soon. I'm sorry if I offended you, but I take back nothing.

Once again, this is entirely irrelevant to this debate. But what it looks like you're saying is, "I'm not fully in control of my beliefs all the time but I stand by them" almost as if you're blaming your beliefs on something out of your control...which I find difficult to believe.

[Lovelife090994]

Care to...elaborate? And if not, let's just discuss your use of the word "faith" here. How could their faith as a whole creep you out? I'm not sure how you define that word, but faith is something that's generally very personal to someone, so I find it incredibly unlikely that the "faith" of all 1.3 billion Muslims "creeps you out."




Wow! Look how unrelated this statement is!



Nobody's asking you to be a perfect anything; this debate isn't about you. This is about the fact that you just dismiss billions of people because you think they're "creepy" in their beliefs.




Once again, this is entirely irrelevant to this debate. But what it looks like you're saying is, "I'm not fully in control of my beliefs all the time but I stand by them" almost as if you're blaming your beliefs on something out of your control...which I find difficult to believe.

I don't hold anything against all Muslims. I just don't like Islam. I don't have to like Islam. And I'm very weird, neurotic at times, and unpredictable. Do you think I like being seen as a bad person?

[Miserabilia]

I don't hold anything against all Muslims. I just don't like Islam. I don't have to like Islam. And I'm very weird, neurotic at times, and unpredictable. Do you think I like being seen as a bad person?

Do you automaticly assume people see you as a bad person when they respond to your argument?
*insert second retoric question here*?

I've realized you don't like islam, however I would like you to call out one objective diference in the BASE of both islam and christianity, not the execution in it, that makes islam according to you worse than christainity.

[Lovelife090994]

Do you automaticly assume people see you as a bad person when they respond to your argument?
*insert second retoric question here*?

I've realized you don't like islam, however I would like you to call out one objective diference in the BASE of both islam and christianity, not the execution in it, that makes islam according to you worse than christainity.

http://news.yahoo.com/sunni-militants-capture-northern-iraqi-town-072226080.html

Well as long as things like this keep happening. I'm not going to like Islam. In the developed world extremists are easily put in their place; elsewhere it shows the true colors.

[Vlerchan]

http://news.yahoo.com/sunni-militants-capture-northern-iraqi-town-072226080.html

Well as long as things like this keep happening. I'm not going to like Islam.
What's your opinion on the Islamic people that kill ISIL back?

[Lovelife090994]

What's your opinion on the Islamic people that kill ISIL back?

It won't work. They'll only be killed like anyone else in the way of the extremists.

[Miserabilia]

http://news.yahoo.com/sunni-militants-capture-northern-iraqi-town-072226080.html

Well as long as things like this keep happening. I'm not going to like Islam. In the developed world extremists are easily put in their place; elsewhere it shows the true colors.

Yes, islam is bad, because extremists. :rolleyes:
How come, that when someone says this about christianity it's completely unjustified, but this argument is used by you against islam?

[Lovelife090994]

Yes, islam is bad, because extremists. :rolleyes:
How come, that when someone says this about christianity it's completely unjustified, but this argument is used by you against islam?

Because Christians aren't killing thousands of people in the name of the Bible, have been murdering order Christians in the same area for thousands of years, and because Christianity has so many sects, sub-sects, major branches, and sub-branches. it's very hard to pin down which is which and who is what. Besides, bear in mind how Christians are just as much of victims here as peaceful Jews and Muslims alike because anyone not Muslim under Sharia law can be killed in the name of Allah and it be justified. That is not a good law, and sadly it's in the Quran. it's one thing if it was past history like in the Bible, it's another thing when whole nations are actually living like this.

[bobbi]

No one in are physical world earth has the right to judge a person because we are not perfect but people judge and bully other people every day.I don't think there is a federal law in the usa saying do not judge others by there physical appearance or mental health or in general.

[Gamma Male]

Because Christians aren't killing thousands of people in the name of the Bible, have been murdering order Christians in the same area for thousands of years, and because Christianity has so many sects, sub-sects, major branches, and sub-branches. it's very hard to pin down which is which and who is what. Besides, bear in mind how Christians are just as much of victims here as peaceful Jews and Muslims alike because anyone not Muslim under Sharia law can be killed in the name of Allah and it be justified. That is not a good law, and sadly it's in the Quran. it's one thing if it was past history like in the Bible, it's another thing when whole nations are actually living like this.

I don't like Christianity. It just creeps me out! I mean, look at Leviticus! I don't want to like any religion that believes in killing homosexuals, adulterers, and non Christians! The world can't get by when there are whole nations living like that! The bible just believes in killing all no christians. Not all christians are bad, but they just kill people and stuff.

*insert more rhetorical droning mixed with personal feelings here*

[Lovelife090994]

I don't like Christianity. It just creeps me out! I mean, look at Leviticus! I don't want to like any religion that believes in killing homosexuals, adulterers, and non Christians! The world can't get by when there are whole nations living like that! The bible just believes in killing all no christians. Not all christians are bad, but they just kill people and stuff.

*insert more rhetorical droning mixed with personal feelings here*

You might want to add Jews to that. The book of Leviticus is directly from the Torah and is their and our third book. Remember the Bible is partially a history book; Leviticus tells how the laws of then were. We don't live like this now.

[Gamma Male]

You might want to add Jews to that. The book of Leviticus is directly from the Torah and is their and our third book. Remember the Bible is partially a history book; Leviticus tells how the laws of then were. We don't live like this now.
Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

Kill Witches You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)

Kill Homosexuals "If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

Kill Fortunetellers A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)

Death for Hitting Dad Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)

Death for Cursing Parents 1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB) 2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)

Death for Adultery If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)

Death for Fornication A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)

Death to Followers of Other Religions Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)

Kill Nonbelievers They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

Kill False Prophets If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)

Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night),and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)

Kill Followers of Other Religions. 1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)

2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)

Death for Blasphemy One day a man who had an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father got into a fight with one of the Israelite men. During the fight, this son of an Israelite woman blasphemed the LORD's name. So the man was brought to Moses for judgment. His mother's name was Shelomith. She was the daughter of Dibri of the tribe of Dan. They put the man in custody until the LORD's will in the matter should become clear. Then the LORD said to Moses, "Take the blasphemer outside the camp, and tell all those who heard him to lay their hands on his head. Then let the entire community stone him to death. Say to the people of Israel: Those who blaspheme God will suffer the consequences of their guilt and be punished. Anyone who blasphemes the LORD's name must be stoned to death by the whole community of Israel. Any Israelite or foreigner among you who blasphemes the LORD's name will surely die. (Leviticus 24:10-16 NLT)

Kill False Prophets 1) Suppose there are prophets among you, or those who have dreams about the future, and they promise you signs or miracles, and the predicted signs or miracles take place. If the prophets then say, 'Come, let us worship the gods of foreign nations,' do not listen to them. The LORD your God is testing you to see if you love him with all your heart and soul. Serve only the LORD your God and fear him alone. Obey his commands, listen to his voice, and cling to him. The false prophets or dreamers who try to lead you astray must be put to death, for they encourage rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of slavery in the land of Egypt. Since they try to keep you from following the LORD your God, you must execute them to remove the evil from among you. (Deuteronomy 13:1-5 NLT)

2) But any prophet who claims to give a message from another god or who falsely claims to speak for me must die.' You may wonder, 'How will we know whether the prophecy is from the LORD or not?' If the prophet predicts something in the LORD's name and it does not happen, the LORD did not give the message. That prophet has spoken on his own and need not be feared. (Deuteronomy 18:20-22 NLT)

Infidels and Gays Should Die So God let them go ahead and do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other's bodies. Instead of believing what they knew was the truth about God, they deliberately chose to believe lies. So they worshiped the things God made but not the Creator himself, who is to be praised forever. Amen. That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved. When they refused to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their evil minds and let them do things that should never be done. Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, fighting, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip. They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They are forever inventing new ways of sinning and are disobedient to their parents. They refuse to understand, break their promises, and are heartless and unforgiving. They are fully aware of God's death penalty for those who do these things, yet they go right ahead and do them anyway. And, worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too. (Romans 1:24-32 NLT)

Kill Anyone who Approaches the Tabernacle For the LORD had said to Moses, 'Exempt the tribe of Levi from the census; do not include them when you count the rest of the Israelites. You must put the Levites in charge of the Tabernacle of the Covenant, along with its furnishings and equipment. They must carry the Tabernacle and its equipment as you travel, and they must care for it and camp around it. Whenever the Tabernacle is moved, the Levites will take it down and set it up again. Anyone else who goes too near the Tabernacle will be executed.' (Numbers 1:48-51 NLT)

Kill People for Working on the Sabbath The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: 'Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.' (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)



I don't know, it all seems pretty straight forward to me. You're always talking about how violent the Quran is, but the bible is just as violent.

And before you say that's all old and outdated, and doesn't apply anymore, how do you know the same can't be said for Islam? Do you really know that much about Islam?

[Lovelife090994]

Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

Kill Witches You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)

Kill Homosexuals "If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

Kill Fortunetellers A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)

Death for Hitting Dad Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)

Death for Cursing Parents 1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB) 2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)

Death for Adultery If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)

Death for Fornication A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)

Death to Followers of Other Religions Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)

Kill Nonbelievers They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

Kill False Prophets If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)

Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night),and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)

Kill Followers of Other Religions. 1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)

2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)

Death for Blasphemy One day a man who had an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father got into a fight with one of the Israelite men. During the fight, this son of an Israelite woman blasphemed the LORD's name. So the man was brought to Moses for judgment. His mother's name was Shelomith. She was the daughter of Dibri of the tribe of Dan. They put the man in custody until the LORD's will in the matter should become clear. Then the LORD said to Moses, "Take the blasphemer outside the camp, and tell all those who heard him to lay their hands on his head. Then let the entire community stone him to death. Say to the people of Israel: Those who blaspheme God will suffer the consequences of their guilt and be punished. Anyone who blasphemes the LORD's name must be stoned to death by the whole community of Israel. Any Israelite or foreigner among you who blasphemes the LORD's name will surely die. (Leviticus 24:10-16 NLT)

Kill False Prophets 1) Suppose there are prophets among you, or those who have dreams about the future, and they promise you signs or miracles, and the predicted signs or miracles take place. If the prophets then say, 'Come, let us worship the gods of foreign nations,' do not listen to them. The LORD your God is testing you to see if you love him with all your heart and soul. Serve only the LORD your God and fear him alone. Obey his commands, listen to his voice, and cling to him. The false prophets or dreamers who try to lead you astray must be put to death, for they encourage rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of slavery in the land of Egypt. Since they try to keep you from following the LORD your God, you must execute them to remove the evil from among you. (Deuteronomy 13:1-5 NLT)

2) But any prophet who claims to give a message from another god or who falsely claims to speak for me must die.' You may wonder, 'How will we know whether the prophecy is from the LORD or not?' If the prophet predicts something in the LORD's name and it does not happen, the LORD did not give the message. That prophet has spoken on his own and need not be feared. (Deuteronomy 18:20-22 NLT)

Infidels and Gays Should Die So God let them go ahead and do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other's bodies. Instead of believing what they knew was the truth about God, they deliberately chose to believe lies. So they worshiped the things God made but not the Creator himself, who is to be praised forever. Amen. That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved. When they refused to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their evil minds and let them do things that should never be done. Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, fighting, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip. They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They are forever inventing new ways of sinning and are disobedient to their parents. They refuse to understand, break their promises, and are heartless and unforgiving. They are fully aware of God's death penalty for those who do these things, yet they go right ahead and do them anyway. And, worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too. (Romans 1:24-32 NLT)

Kill Anyone who Approaches the Tabernacle For the LORD had said to Moses, 'Exempt the tribe of Levi from the census; do not include them when you count the rest of the Israelites. You must put the Levites in charge of the Tabernacle of the Covenant, along with its furnishings and equipment. They must carry the Tabernacle and its equipment as you travel, and they must care for it and camp around it. Whenever the Tabernacle is moved, the Levites will take it down and set it up again. Anyone else who goes too near the Tabernacle will be executed.' (Numbers 1:48-51 NLT)

Kill People for Working on the Sabbath The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: 'Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.' (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)

I don't know, it all seems pretty straight forward to me. You're always talking about how violent the Quran is, but the bible is just as violent.

And before you say that's all old and outdated, and doesn't apply anymore, how do you know the same can't be said for Islam? Do you really know that much about Islam?


Notice where most of that was; the Torah and Old Testament. If Christians and Jews can learn from that history then why can't Muslims? To all Muslims non-Muslims are infidels. At least with Christians we see non-believers as what they are and are not supposed to write them off. The laws of man change. The Bible has many laws of man added to the laws as laws of God. But I ask you to look to a King James Versiion. The term homosexual didn't exist then. Plus the Ten Comandments of the Exodus forbid killing. Jesus forbids the act of looking down upon others and writing them off. Jesus however did acknowledge sins and prayed for others. I pray everyday, but Muslim violence is getting worse. Islam has spread by the sword even after Christians and Jews ceased the bloodshed. You would be killed in Muslim lands for simply not being Muslim. Women are killed for thinking as free women. The laws restrict religious freedom. And the acts of men can be justified by Allah. That is very detestable to me. God has made it clear that he is a God of love and peace. Anyone using God for evil is doomed and wrong. Besides God gave Jesus for man to one day live with him Who did Allah bring? Notice how harsh the words of Islam are to infidels to how infidels are treated now. Haven't you seen the violence? It must be stopped. It is the duty of man to protect others, and the duty of Christians to care and distance themselves from evil. I may not hate Muslims but I most certainly do not like Islam for what it is today. I'd never switch to it.

[Gamma Male]

Notice where most of that was; the Torah and Old Testament. If Christians and Jews can learn from that history then why can't Muslims? To all Muslims non-Muslims are infidels. At least with Christians we see non-believers as what they are and are not supposed to write them off. The laws of man change. The Bible has many laws of man added to the laws as laws of God. But I ask you to look to a King James Versiion. The term homosexual didn't exist then. Plus the Ten Comandments of the Exodus forbid killing. Jesus forbids the act of looking down upon others and writing them off. Jesus however did acknowledge sins and prayed for others. I pray everyday, but Muslim violence is getting worse. Islam has spread by the sword even after Christians and Jews ceased the bloodshed. You would be killed in Muslim lands for simply not being Muslim. Women are killed for thinking as free women. The laws restrict religious freedom. And the acts of men can be justified by Allah. That is very detestable to me. God has made it clear that he is a God of love and peace. Anyone using God for evil is doomed and wrong. Besides God gave Jesus for man to one day live with him Who did Allah bring? Notice how harsh the words of Islam are to infidels to how infidels are treated now. Haven't you seen the violence? It must be stopped. It is the duty of man to protect others, and the duty of Christians to care and distance themselves from evil. I may not hate Muslims but I most certainly do not like Islam for what it is today. I'd never switch to it.


I'm done debating with you. I can't take it anymore. I'm sorry. You seem like a really nice person, but debating with you makes me want to pick up my moniter and bang my head against it. I have absolutely nothing against you, and if we could avoid discussing religion and politics I'm sure we'd get along fine, but I just can't talk to you anymore.
It's just incredibly frustrating. I can't take it. Don't take this the wrong way, because I'm really not trying to hurt you, but I'm done. I just bit down on my finger to avoid screaming in frustration. I don't want to hurt your feelings, so I'm not going to channel my anger my being mad at you on here.

[Lovelife090994]

I'm done debating with you. I can't take it anymore. I'm sorry. You seem like a really nice person, but debating with you makes me want to pick up my moniter and bang my head against it. I have absolutely nothing against you, and if we could avoid discussing religion and politics I'm sure we'd get along fine, but I just can't talk to you anymore.
It's just incredibly frustrating. I can't take it. Don't take this the wrong way, because I'm really not trying to hurt you, but I'm done. I just bit down on my finger to avoid screaming in frustration. I don't want to hurt your feelings, so I'm not going to channel my anger my being mad at you on here.


Sorry to anger you. But thanks for proving something to me. I must be insane because I got a bit of schadenfreude from that. Okay, bye. We probably would get along if it weren't for our strong religious differences.

[Miserabilia]

Because Christians aren't killing thousands of people in the name of the Bible,

Yes they are, maybe not daily, but many thousands have died in the name of the bible. Try to be more specific, maybe say islam as more terrorsist attacks and death in the name of islam (which is true!.)


and because Christianity has so many sects, sub-sects, major branches, and sub-branches.

And so is islam, there's absolutely no point here.

it's very hard to pin down which is which and who is what.

Except for islam? :rolleyes:


Besides, bear in mind how Christians are just as much of victims here as

Please elaborate, share me stories of american christians being massively killed stoned publicly executed for being christian, please do, I'd be fascinated to hear.

because anyone not Muslim under Sharia law can be killed in the name of Allah and it be justified.

Sharia, sharia , sharia. It's a terrible thing, but it's not islam. Still no point.

That is not a good law, and sadly it's in the Quran.

And pretty much all of it is in the old testament aswell.

it's one thing if it was past history like in the Bible, it's another thing when whole nations are actually living like this.

Whole christian nations were living like this, too. It's just a difference in time, some cultures are developed differently, some technologies are more advanced, etc. The world isn't always on track with the richest countries.

[Lovelife090994]

Yes they are, maybe not daily, but many thousands have died in the name of the bible. Try to be more specific, maybe say islam as more terrorsist attacks and death in the name of islam (which is true!.)




And so is islam, there's absolutely no point here.



Except for islam? :rolleyes:




Please elaborate, share me stories of american christians being massively killed stoned publicly executed for being christian, please do, I'd be fascinated to hear.



Sharia, sharia , sharia. It's a terrible thing, but it's not islam. Still no point.



And pretty much all of it is in the old testament aswell.



Whole christian nations were living like this, too. It's just a difference in time, some cultures are developed differently, some technologies are more advanced, etc. The world isn't always on track with the richest countries.

Notice Christianity's ills are behind it. Islam is still showing evil. You're not going to make me like Islam. And Christians and Jews are killed everyday for being who they are. Let's not forget the hundreds killed weekly in the Middle East and Holy Land which used to be Christian and Jewish. How do you explain away that?

[Harry Smith]

Notice Christianity's ills are behind it.

http://time.com/4481/u-n-slams-vatican-over-child-abuse-cover-up/

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/735232.stm

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/05/muslims-only-carried-out-2-5-percent-of-terrorist-attacks-on-u-s-soil-between-1970-and-2012.html

Also do you have any evidence that hundreds are killed weekly?

[Lovelife090994]

http://time.com/4481/u-n-slams-vatican-over-child-abuse-cover-up/

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/735232.stm

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/05/muslims-only-carried-out-2-5-percent-of-terrorist-attacks-on-u-s-soil-between-1970-and-2012.html

Also do you have any evidence that hundreds are killed weekly?

Do you have any evidence that they're not. DO you have the gall to say no Christians or Jews have ever been killed by Muslims? Do you really want to say that all Muslims are peaceful? Like everything they are not all peaceful. I'm not going to like Islam just because you do.

That's it, I'm done too.
If you're not even concidering that I am in fact NOT defending terrorism but simply saying it's not in the base of the religion itself, I am done.
I've made my point, showed arguments and statistics.

Sometimes the smartest remark is silence. Tsk, tsk, you still don't see your own error before. But if you can't accept the fact that Islam is terroristic then don't. Just wait until your country gets a high enough Muslim population and you'll see the drama unfold death by death as innocent blood will fill the streets. But no one will blame the culprit since Islam is seen as an ethnicity to the media and they never blame them for the violence. Like I said; I won't be badgered or brainwashed into your ways and I won't change for you. One thing clear, I don't like you, and as such I don't have to listen to or follow your ways. You're free to say the same about me. I'll just add your name to the long list of people to avoid. Now, why don't we take five steps back, grab a lemonade, take eight steps forward to the gate, and then leave while the drink is still cold eh?

[Miserabilia]

Notice Christianity's ills are behind it. Islam is still showing evil. You're not going to make me like Islam. And Christians and Jews are killed everyday for being who they are. Let's not forget the hundreds killed weekly in the Middle East and Holy Land which used to be Christian and Jewish. How do you explain away that?

That's it, I'm done too.
If you're not even concidering that I am in fact NOT defending terrorism but simply saying it's not in the base of the religion itself, I am done.
I've made my point, showed arguments and statistics.

[Harry Smith]

Do you have any evidence that they're not.

That's not how evidence works, you make a claim and you back it up. It's called burden of proof.

There's no evidence that 100's of christians are killed every week in the middle east.

Edited. -Cygnus David